I want to earn a name for myself, I want to be able to hunt down someone who's earned a name for themselves, I want to be able to exact revenge upon someone who got the kill on me.
None of that can happen if you can't see someone's name.
It doesn't really matter. Due to the sheer amount of possible players that can participate in WvWvW, it will be absolutely impossible to get really noticed by the other faction. Also, since the servers get rotated and paired up with other servers of similar skill, you can potentially face a new server every time the Mists reset.
Structured and competitive PvP is where you would make a name for yourself. Smaller teams means that every player stands out.
So all the problems of 3 realm combat are forgotten already? Guess those rose colored glasses work really well. People seem to remember "We were out numbered 20 to 1 by the Albions, but we still managed to gank soloers!" as being epic fun, when in fact it caused them to leave the game...
The "weak play vs weak" thing might work for a couple of months, before the inevitable ghosttown forms, because a) those players who play a lot of PvP will move to servers WITH PvP action (holding forts for bonuses is not fun vs monsters only), and those who don't play a lot of PvP won't join it anyways, leaving the mists full of .... mist (and the odd gankers who want to prey on the weak). So you might have a trinity of "good" pvp servers, and the rest empty.
Oh I also disagree that its a better system than daoc, for above 2 reasons, and also because there was more of it in daoc (wvw is about 1/3rd the size of vanilla frontiers) and there is no distraction of mini game pvp.
So all the problems of 3 realm combat are forgotten already? Guess those rose colored glasses work really well. People seem to remember "We were out numbered 20 to 1 by the Albions, but we still managed to gank soloers!" as being epic fun, when in fact it caused them to leave the game...
The "weak play vs weak" thing might work for a couple of months, before the inevitable ghosttown forms, because a) those players who play a lot of PvP will move to servers WITH PvP action (holding forts for bonuses is not fun vs monsters only), and those who don't play a lot of PvP won't join it anyways, leaving the mists full of .... mist (and the odd gankers who want to prey on the weak). So you might have a trinity of "good" pvp servers, and the rest empty.
true but there are alot ppl who dont like zerg action they will play on those empty server for 1v1 or 8v8.
WvWvW is the ONLY reason im buying this game. Otherwise i just cant stand the loading zone layout they built this game with. Such a lobby game. Makes me sad.
this is one of my concerns. Will the pve world be a desolate place? Will the pvp levelling be such that the non storyline game be like a ghosttown? Maybe after a month / two months will the World of Tyria become a mere WvWvW lobby?
Over population is the biggest threat I guess, because WvW is by far the biggest appeal to GW2 in the pvp department. If I have to wait an hour before getting into WvW on my own server I'd be really frustrated. Really curious about what the player cap will be and how soon it will be reached on an average server.
Another potential downside is the ability to buy Influence for gold and buy appealing guild boosts with that. This might give bigger and richer guilds another edge over members of smaller or poorer guilds.
and thats why they add that you can move to the other color team to balance the population and atleast give him a fight ,buff dont gonna count for your main color but atleast you unite force to defeat the populated color
This kind if pvp is scale dependent, you can have too little e.g. swtor illum cockup, you can also have too much e.g. daoc after new frontiers. Gw2 looks to have enough, but would also work a bit bigger if it proves to crowded - for example if they had plans to expand from 4 to 7 zones if was queueing would still probably work fine
Over population is the biggest threat I guess, because WvW is by far the biggest appeal to GW2 in the pvp department. If I have to wait an hour before getting into WvW on my own server I'd be really frustrated. Really curious about what the player cap will be and how soon it will be reached on an average server.
Another potential downside is the ability to buy Influence for gold and buy appealing guild boosts with that. This might give bigger and richer guilds another edge over members of smaller or poorer guilds.
That is what I worry about too Pony .
Though I agree with these points, my major worry is that with all the healing abilities and the downstate, that PVP will feel less like a battle with winners and loosers, and more like an endless and pointless slugfest. Similar to how high level PVP lakes or BGs felt in Warhammer Online.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
You missed the best part. No outleveling content thanks to the automatic downleveling. It is no longer a choice of PvP or PvE. You PvP, gain a few levels, go back to PvE and it is still relevant and challenging.
Outside of CoH and EQ2 with their refuse XP toggle no other MMO can boast that.
Yep. That's a big problem for me in WoW. Sure, healing PvP bg's is a way to level pretty fast, but sometimes I get caught up in it and totally bypass the best PvE zones and then I'm stuck leveling in some crap hole or forced to keep PvP'ing for another 5 to 10 levels in order to access another fave PvE zone. In GW2, I'll never have to do that and it's awesome.
I can beat people up in WvW all day and still access the PvE content I want to.
Over population is the biggest threat I guess, because WvW is by far the biggest appeal to GW2 in the pvp department. If I have to wait an hour before getting into WvW on my own server I'd be really frustrated. Really curious about what the player cap will be and how soon it will be reached on an average server.
Another potential downside is the ability to buy Influence for gold and buy appealing guild boosts with that. This might give bigger and richer guilds another edge over members of smaller or poorer guilds.
That is what I worry about too Pony .
Though I agree with these points, my major worry is that with all the healing abilities and the downstate, that PVP will feel less like a battle with winners and loosers, and more like an endless and pointless slugfest. Similar to how high level PVP lakes or BGs felt in Warhammer Online.
Yeah, that's another valid point. The vids I saw so far were all very zergy already it seemed. Zerg + lack of death penalty = frequent, insignificant deaths. This I really didn't like about WAR. Eventually I just didn't care about dying anymore and kept throwing myself into the fray. Rinse and repeat.
The only hopeful aspect in this case would be heavy repair bills + long corpse runs to make it somewhat more exciting and adding incentive to "not die".
There's this finisher move you can use on downed people in pvp though, so that will help battles to go towards an outcome.
I'm not sure whether there are ranged finishers too however: jumping down a parapet just to impale someone in downed state isn't so realistic.
While there are definitely potential issues a system like this can have, I think people are focusing far too much on them. Most of the problems mentioned seem to stem from a worry over how this game will play months after launch; if not years if the game is popular enough. As w/ any MMO a game is victim to the number of players it has (either too many or too little), the real question will be a combination of "is it fun / popular enough to keep people playing?" and "how well will Anet manage the server populations?".
They already have a number of mechanics to deal with this (zone Ques, as well as the option to bypass the que to help out another server), we really will just have to wait and see how it all turns out. I don't think any of those are a reason not to try this game out, though. It would be like avoiding an epic battlefield game simply because there's a chance that one of the teams might rage quit mid-match.
It's been a long time since I played but I recall DAOC being like that too, but I haven't played since 2003, so I may be wrong. I know we couldn't chat cross realm.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Though I agree with these points, my major worry is that with all the healing abilities and the downstate, that PVP will feel less like a battle with winners and loosers, and more like an endless and pointless slugfest. Similar to how high level PVP lakes or BGs felt in Warhammer Online.
Yeah, that's another valid point. The vids I saw so far were all very zergy already it seemed. Zerg + lack of death penalty = frequent, insignificant deaths. This I really didn't like about WAR. Eventually I just didn't care about dying anymore and kept throwing myself into the fray. Rinse and repeat.
The only hopeful aspect in this case would be heavy repair bills + long corpse runs to make it somewhat more exciting and adding incentive to "not die".
There's this finisher move you can use on downed people in pvp though, so that will help battles to go towards an outcome.
I'm not sure whether there are ranged finishers too however: jumping down a parapet just to impale someone in downed state isn't so realistic.
It will get very zergy, no doubt about it. However, that's kinda the point of large keep-oriented combat. You can't duel a keep.
As for the worry of 'over-healing' I think that's a bit of a stretch. Heals are VERY limited in this game. The AoE heals are limited to a fairly small area (even the larger skills like rain are still limited, and don't heal all that much), so unless you have 10+ water elementalists stacking AoEs on the same area, there's not much to worry about. And, even if you DO somehow face 10+ water elementalists stacking AoE heals in the same area, guess what they are NOT doing? Attacking the objectives!. Simply knock their dumbasses down and murder them.
Keep in mind that in order for aoe heals to be anywhere near effective in this game, you need a TON of people all dedicated to doing it. Couple that with the siege weapons available, as well as AoE knockdowns / stuns / etc. at your disposal, and you'd be lucky to face an opponent foolish enough to try that as a valid tactic. If I faced a team like that I would lmao well shelling them with cannon fire, or a meteor shower / static field combo.
Nothing like this (and not even DaoC or Planetside) will ever be perfect. Despite what nostalgia says, and both of those classic games eventually ran themselves into the ground, killing themselves in the end. People tend to forget that.
True but then not, what killed both of these titles was the PVE content introduced. Not the gameplay. GW2 looks good, but then target pvp systems for me are getting a bit old. If the genre was new it would be a different story, the only aspect that I can find in a good pvp system now is free targeting. This is of course my own personal opinion and is the only reason I find myself looking to planetside 2 as my next MMO at this point. Guild Wars 2 has allot to offer but we have seen many of these key features before in other titles. When it comes down to it, it will be the players themselves whom deterimine if it's "Worth it" or not. From what I gather and know of the title thou, I guess I am just not as hype as most here seem to be.
Edit: PS. DarkPony, love the sig bro.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Over population is the biggest threat I guess, because WvW is by far the biggest appeal to GW2 in the pvp department. If I have to wait an hour before getting into WvW on my own server I'd be really frustrated. Really curious about what the player cap will be and how soon it will be reached on an average server.
100% agree, this is the downfall of GW2 pvp, in the name of keeping it "playable" If anyoen one thing will be a massive detractor from thegame its that its not open world pvp.
Another potential downside is the ability to buy Influence for gold and buy appealing guild boosts with that. This might give bigger and richer guilds another edge over members of smaller or poorer guilds.
What? You mean bigger guilds can do more, the horror. Is that really a critical comment or you complaining about math. Hey guys big guilds will have avantages , you don't say. Who would'a thunk it.
I'll add one of my own.
The class system is shit. It 100% undeiniable. People atm might think nahh its not that bad... believe me you'll see that it is after a month or two.
It easy to understand why tho. Lack of diversity. Which seems odd seeing as every classes is massivly diverse, with the ability to fullfill any role or the lack there of roles. In this way there is no real diversity between classes in function, just play (which is at least nice).
They should have just taken another page from old mmos and made highly diverse and specializable classes/characters. (So that there is a reason to work together for greater outcome, there is replay value, and from one toon to the next the game experinces differs largely).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I want to earn a name for myself, I want to be able to hunt down someone who's earned a name for themselves, I want to be able to exact revenge upon someone who got the kill on me.
None of that can happen if you can't see someone's name.
I don't like the anonymity factor either, but I guess the reputation will go for Guild tags.
It seems player reputation will be exclusive to structured PvP.
I think they really need to add in guild tags in the form of an image that are viewable in game, I would love to get to know what guilds do what and who to look out for.
TERA may be a completely different niche than GW2 but they have it so a little image you can upload for your guild appears beside your name, just in the BETA guilds have already earned huge reputations, made rivals and made friends because the image is so distinguishable. It's a really great feature the game has in my opinion and it creates a bigger sense of community, something all MMOS are lacking these days.
That being said I am pretty interested in how WvW plays out and look forward to playing it with my guild.
I was starting to get annoyed bythe fact that the VP kept saying "this is so cool this is PvP" and all they were doing was to engage NPC's...(aka PVE).
But at the end he said "just immagine the batles here that will take place"...once the game is out that is. I beleive it will be something to rejoice about and looking froward to it.
The actual mechanics of taking keeps look good, a bit too WAR familliar but since this is between 3 servers (a la DAOC) it should be much more active than it was in WAR, and fun as a result.
Cheers!
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Community issues will be lessened by the fact that you can't see opponents names or talk to them in game and the fact that there will be new server matchups every two weeks.
Depersonalizing the enemy should actually be very liberating for most people and it also eliminated real or perceived greifing to a great degree. Bring an alternate set of armor and you might as well be two seperate people as far as your enemies are concerned!
Another thing I don't see often mentioned is that not only do you not know your enemies by name, but you can't tell what their true level is. Every open field engagement will contain a huge element of the unknown. This should make the entire experience more exciting. Some people will engage everyone and hope they don't bite of more than they can chew. Others may always play the role of the "overly cautious" and run away from all potential threats. Some people may even be able to scare off a higher level opponent by putting up a frenzied fight during the initial phase of the engagement. It should be a lot of fun for those who like to roam PvP enabled world space solo or with a small group!
Greifers may not like the system, but it should be great for just about everyone else.
Though I agree with these points, my major worry is that with all the healing abilities and the downstate, that PVP will feel less like a battle with winners and loosers, and more like an endless and pointless slugfest. Similar to how high level PVP lakes or BGs felt in Warhammer Online.
Yeah, that's another valid point. The vids I saw so far were all very zergy already it seemed. Zerg + lack of death penalty = frequent, insignificant deaths. This I really didn't like about WAR. Eventually I just didn't care about dying anymore and kept throwing myself into the fray. Rinse and repeat.
The only hopeful aspect in this case would be heavy repair bills + long corpse runs to make it somewhat more exciting and adding incentive to "not die".
There's this finisher move you can use on downed people in pvp though, so that will help battles to go towards an outcome.
I'm not sure whether there are ranged finishers too however: jumping down a parapet just to impale someone in downed state isn't so realistic.
It will get very zergy, no doubt about it. However, that's kinda the point of large keep-oriented combat. You can't duel a keep.
As for the worry of 'over-healing' I think that's a bit of a stretch. Heals are VERY limited in this game. The AoE heals are limited to a fairly small area (even the larger skills like rain are still limited, and don't heal all that much), so unless you have 10+ water elementalists stacking AoEs on the same area, there's not much to worry about. And, even if you DO somehow face 10+ water elementalists stacking AoE heals in the same area, guess what they are NOT doing? Attacking the objectives!. Simply knock their dumbasses down and murder them.
Keep in mind that in order for aoe heals to be anywhere near effective in this game, you need a TON of people all dedicated to doing it. Couple that with the siege weapons available, as well as AoE knockdowns / stuns / etc. at your disposal, and you'd be lucky to face an opponent foolish enough to try that as a valid tactic. If I faced a team like that I would lmao well shelling them with cannon fire, or a meteor shower / static field combo.
Comments
It doesn't really matter. Due to the sheer amount of possible players that can participate in WvWvW, it will be absolutely impossible to get really noticed by the other faction. Also, since the servers get rotated and paired up with other servers of similar skill, you can potentially face a new server every time the Mists reset.
Structured and competitive PvP is where you would make a name for yourself. Smaller teams means that every player stands out.
I don't know, even if you just hunted one guy that pissed you off for one day before the servers switched, it would still increase the fun factor.
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC
I'm just glad someone learned the lesson Ultima Online taught the genre back in 2000 with the Trammel - Felucca split.
Took 12 years, but someone is finally getting it right.
same here I missed daoc is the main reason I am going to play this game just for the WvW.
So all the problems of 3 realm combat are forgotten already? Guess those rose colored glasses work really well. People seem to remember "We were out numbered 20 to 1 by the Albions, but we still managed to gank soloers!" as being epic fun, when in fact it caused them to leave the game...
The "weak play vs weak" thing might work for a couple of months, before the inevitable ghosttown forms, because a) those players who play a lot of PvP will move to servers WITH PvP action (holding forts for bonuses is not fun vs monsters only), and those who don't play a lot of PvP won't join it anyways, leaving the mists full of .... mist (and the odd gankers who want to prey on the weak). So you might have a trinity of "good" pvp servers, and the rest empty.
its not the size that matters its how u use it.
true but there are alot ppl who dont like zerg action they will play on those empty server for 1v1 or 8v8.
Another potential issue is the lag. But it is directly connected to the area cap.
Also the optimisation and the lack of FPS drops, as well.
Both technical possible issues
this is one of my concerns. Will the pve world be a desolate place? Will the pvp levelling be such that the non storyline game be like a ghosttown? Maybe after a month / two months will the World of Tyria become a mere WvWvW lobby?
I want to say I really enjoyed the OP's narative. No holding back...no concerns about sounding like a kid.LOVED THE NARATIVE !
that engineer with the flamethrower....sick :-)
and thats why they add that you can move to the other color team to balance the population and atleast give him a fight ,buff dont gonna count for your main color but atleast you unite force to defeat the populated color
This kind if pvp is scale dependent, you can have too little e.g. swtor illum cockup, you can also have too much e.g. daoc after new frontiers. Gw2 looks to have enough, but would also work a bit bigger if it proves to crowded - for example if they had plans to expand from 4 to 7 zones if was queueing would still probably work fine
Though I agree with these points, my major worry is that with all the healing abilities and the downstate, that PVP will feel less like a battle with winners and loosers, and more like an endless and pointless slugfest. Similar to how high level PVP lakes or BGs felt in Warhammer Online.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
That awkward moment when you realize who got your beta key...
Yep. That's a big problem for me in WoW. Sure, healing PvP bg's is a way to level pretty fast, but sometimes I get caught up in it and totally bypass the best PvE zones and then I'm stuck leveling in some crap hole or forced to keep PvP'ing for another 5 to 10 levels in order to access another fave PvE zone. In GW2, I'll never have to do that and it's awesome.
I can beat people up in WvW all day and still access the PvE content I want to.
Yeah, that's another valid point. The vids I saw so far were all very zergy already it seemed. Zerg + lack of death penalty = frequent, insignificant deaths. This I really didn't like about WAR. Eventually I just didn't care about dying anymore and kept throwing myself into the fray. Rinse and repeat.
The only hopeful aspect in this case would be heavy repair bills + long corpse runs to make it somewhat more exciting and adding incentive to "not die".
There's this finisher move you can use on downed people in pvp though, so that will help battles to go towards an outcome.
I'm not sure whether there are ranged finishers too however: jumping down a parapet just to impale someone in downed state isn't so realistic.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Definitely looking forward to this.
While there are definitely potential issues a system like this can have, I think people are focusing far too much on them. Most of the problems mentioned seem to stem from a worry over how this game will play months after launch; if not years if the game is popular enough. As w/ any MMO a game is victim to the number of players it has (either too many or too little), the real question will be a combination of "is it fun / popular enough to keep people playing?" and "how well will Anet manage the server populations?".
They already have a number of mechanics to deal with this (zone Ques, as well as the option to bypass the que to help out another server), we really will just have to wait and see how it all turns out. I don't think any of those are a reason not to try this game out, though. It would be like avoiding an epic battlefield game simply because there's a chance that one of the teams might rage quit mid-match.
It's been a long time since I played but I recall DAOC being like that too, but I haven't played since 2003, so I may be wrong. I know we couldn't chat cross realm.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It will get very zergy, no doubt about it. However, that's kinda the point of large keep-oriented combat. You can't duel a keep.
As for the worry of 'over-healing' I think that's a bit of a stretch. Heals are VERY limited in this game. The AoE heals are limited to a fairly small area (even the larger skills like rain are still limited, and don't heal all that much), so unless you have 10+ water elementalists stacking AoEs on the same area, there's not much to worry about. And, even if you DO somehow face 10+ water elementalists stacking AoE heals in the same area, guess what they are NOT doing? Attacking the objectives!. Simply knock their dumbasses down and murder them.
Keep in mind that in order for aoe heals to be anywhere near effective in this game, you need a TON of people all dedicated to doing it. Couple that with the siege weapons available, as well as AoE knockdowns / stuns / etc. at your disposal, and you'd be lucky to face an opponent foolish enough to try that as a valid tactic. If I faced a team like that I would lmao well shelling them with cannon fire, or a meteor shower / static field combo.
True but then not, what killed both of these titles was the PVE content introduced. Not the gameplay. GW2 looks good, but then target pvp systems for me are getting a bit old. If the genre was new it would be a different story, the only aspect that I can find in a good pvp system now is free targeting. This is of course my own personal opinion and is the only reason I find myself looking to planetside 2 as my next MMO at this point. Guild Wars 2 has allot to offer but we have seen many of these key features before in other titles. When it comes down to it, it will be the players themselves whom deterimine if it's "Worth it" or not. From what I gather and know of the title thou, I guess I am just not as hype as most here seem to be.
Edit: PS. DarkPony, love the sig bro.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
I'll add one of my own.
The class system is shit. It 100% undeiniable. People atm might think nahh its not that bad... believe me you'll see that it is after a month or two.
It easy to understand why tho. Lack of diversity. Which seems odd seeing as every classes is massivly diverse, with the ability to fullfill any role or the lack there of roles. In this way there is no real diversity between classes in function, just play (which is at least nice).
They should have just taken another page from old mmos and made highly diverse and specializable classes/characters. (So that there is a reason to work together for greater outcome, there is replay value, and from one toon to the next the game experinces differs largely).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I think they really need to add in guild tags in the form of an image that are viewable in game, I would love to get to know what guilds do what and who to look out for.
TERA may be a completely different niche than GW2 but they have it so a little image you can upload for your guild appears beside your name, just in the BETA guilds have already earned huge reputations, made rivals and made friends because the image is so distinguishable. It's a really great feature the game has in my opinion and it creates a bigger sense of community, something all MMOS are lacking these days.
That being said I am pretty interested in how WvW plays out and look forward to playing it with my guild.
Good video fianlly,
I was starting to get annoyed bythe fact that the VP kept saying "this is so cool this is PvP" and all they were doing was to engage NPC's...(aka PVE).
But at the end he said "just immagine the batles here that will take place"...once the game is out that is. I beleive it will be something to rejoice about and looking froward to it.
The actual mechanics of taking keeps look good, a bit too WAR familliar but since this is between 3 servers (a la DAOC) it should be much more active than it was in WAR, and fun as a result.
Cheers!
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Good basic list of pros and potential cons.
Community issues will be lessened by the fact that you can't see opponents names or talk to them in game and the fact that there will be new server matchups every two weeks.
Depersonalizing the enemy should actually be very liberating for most people and it also eliminated real or perceived greifing to a great degree. Bring an alternate set of armor and you might as well be two seperate people as far as your enemies are concerned!
Another thing I don't see often mentioned is that not only do you not know your enemies by name, but you can't tell what their true level is. Every open field engagement will contain a huge element of the unknown. This should make the entire experience more exciting. Some people will engage everyone and hope they don't bite of more than they can chew. Others may always play the role of the "overly cautious" and run away from all potential threats. Some people may even be able to scare off a higher level opponent by putting up a frenzied fight during the initial phase of the engagement. It should be a lot of fun for those who like to roam PvP enabled world space solo or with a small group!
Greifers may not like the system, but it should be great for just about everyone else.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Yep. What he said. +1
Looking forward to EQL and EQN.