The world revolve entirely around gut feeling and 'giving it a go' combined with logic. If you don't know that, you're obviously not a scientist or anyone else that makes a real difference.
The best people in the world know how to combine emotion with logic. The mediocre people can only do one or the other.
While the world, as in human actions and choices, currently revolves around logic and emotions, it doesn't mean the current proportions and usage-areas are the most efficient or even in range of the most efficient ones for the different purposes.
As for "scientist or anyone else that makes a real difference": difference in what context and for whom?
As for the "best people in the world": best according to which ideals?
- Wife : Honey, let’s go down to the Caribbean for the holidays
- Me : Sure, do you have any place in mind ?
- Wife : Well, I don’t know, we can check on the net for resorts ?
- Me : Ok, let’s go have a look
- Wife : Oh !!! look at this one, it looks amazing and it only 2000$ per person
- Me : Hmmmm let’s check some reviews first
- Wife : See !! the reviews are amazing and the pictures on the site are beautiful … I want to go, let’s book the trip …
- Me : But honey, we don’t really know a lot about that resort, we can’t rely only on stranger’s comments to make our decision … its 4000$ in total …
- Wife : I don’t care, it looks amazing … I want to go, let’s book it RIGHT NOWWWW !!!!
- Me : Ok, if you say so …
4000$ gone in just a few minutes on a product we know almost nothing about besides pictures from a web site, videos from YouTube and some reviews from complete strangers, does that ring a bell ?? If millions of people (I gather that people all around the world do go on vacation once in a while) are willing to just give their hard earn money IN ADVANCE for a 7 day trip that LOOKS LIKE paradise but might end up going either way (good/bad), I think dishing out 60$ for a game that LOOKS LIKE fun but might end up going either way (god/bad) is not that unreasonable … My wife and I do this twice a year actually and believe me, there were times where we regretted it BUT other times where whe had the time of our lives ...
So, yes, I pre-purchased GW2 and if I come to regret it … to bad so sad, ill just move on to better things.
The problem is lack of discipline and letting your emotions dictate your decisions rather than logic and rationality. It is a dangerous path to go and while it may seem harmless in leisure activities, it encourages companies to abuse them.
If people followed your logic, absolutly nothing would ever get done.
Every move a person makes would require a dozen extra steps, and lots more time, I doubt all those extra steps are nessecary, sometimes sure, but most of the time... total waste.
Really? Can you show how nothing would evet get done that way? I can give you an example of how something gets done: you are feeling like staying in bed in the morning, but checking the clock you know that you've slept enough and you know that you would be able to manage the whole day just fine if you chose to get up from your bed. Logically, the correct choice is to get up, while the emotional one is to wait until you no longer feel like staying in bed.
wow, are we really bringing logic into mmorpgs? First of all, the example of waking up in the morning as being logical makes no sense at all. Logic has to do with the validity, truth and falseness of arguments, in regards to the connection of premisses with their conclusions. Getting things done has no direct correlation with logic in it of itself. Sure, there may be "logical" reasons which cause things to get done, but to claim that things get done solely due to logic is preposterous. You may have good reasons (as opposed to bad ones) relative to subjectivity (individual circumstances/preferences/feelings) to to get up in the morning, but to claim it as logical is just erroneous.
In your own example you state that you "know" you would be able to "manage" the whole day "just fine". That is not a decision making process based on reason and logic, but on feelings and emotions, just like staying in bed until you no longer "feel" like it. First of all you can't know for certain (100%) that you have slept enough and that you would be able to manage the whole day just fine. Therefore you most likely would feel like you've slept enough. How exactly would you even define and categorize managing a day as "just fine" if not in relation to your own subjective understanding/perpsective of the management of a day and of categorizing the management of a day as "just fine".
im waiting for the game for about 5 years i love what i c till this day and dont care what other think about it im gonna play it and that mi final desition ,if im gonna judge the game, im playing miself and then ill be the judge if like it or not i dont give a fk if lovers or hater give they personal opinion mi desition is final and that the way people suposed to think abouth theyr own personal desitions and things in life .
the best advise in life is the one you learn by yourself even doing good or bad things in life.
- Wife : Honey, let’s go down to the Caribbean for the holidays
- Me : Sure, do you have any place in mind ?
- Wife : Well, I don’t know, we can check on the net for resorts ?
- Me : Ok, let’s go have a look
- Wife : Oh !!! look at this one, it looks amazing and it only 2000$ per person
- Me : Hmmmm let’s check some reviews first
- Wife : See !! the reviews are amazing and the pictures on the site are beautiful … I want to go, let’s book the trip …
- Me : But honey, we don’t really know a lot about that resort, we can’t rely only on stranger’s comments to make our decision … its 4000$ in total …
- Wife : I don’t care, it looks amazing … I want to go, let’s book it RIGHT NOWWWW !!!!
- Me : Ok, if you say so …
4000$ gone in just a few minutes on a product we know almost nothing about besides pictures from a web site, videos from YouTube and some reviews from complete strangers, does that ring a bell ?? If millions of people (I gather that people all around the world do go on vacation once in a while) are willing to just give their hard earn money IN ADVANCE for a 7 day trip that LOOKS LIKE paradise but might end up going either way (good/bad), I think dishing out 60$ for a game that LOOKS LIKE fun but might end up going either way (god/bad) is not that unreasonable … My wife and I do this twice a year actually and believe me, there were times where we regretted it BUT other times where whe had the time of our lives ...
So, yes, I pre-purchased GW2 and if I come to regret it … to bad so sad, ill just move on to better things.
The problem is lack of discipline and letting your emotions dictate your decisions rather than logic and rationality. It is a dangerous path to go and while it may seem harmless in leisure activities, it encourages companies to abuse them.
If people followed your logic, absolutly nothing would ever get done.
Every move a person makes would require a dozen extra steps, and lots more time, I doubt all those extra steps are nessecary, sometimes sure, but most of the time... total waste.
Really? Can you show how nothing would evet get done that way? I can give you an example of how something gets done: you are feeling like staying in bed in the morning, but checking the clock you know that you've slept enough and you know that you would be able to manage the whole day just fine if you chose to get up from your bed. Logically, the correct choice is to get up, while the emotional one is to wait until you no longer feel like staying in bed.
wow, are we really bringing logic into mmorpgs? First of all, the example of waking up in the morning as being logical makes no sense at all. Logic has to do with the validity, truth and falseness of arguments, in regards to the connection of premisses with their conclusions. Getting things done has no direct correlation with logic in it of itself. Sure, there may be "logical" reasons which cause things to get done, but to claim that things get done solely due to logic is preposterous. You may have good reasons (as opposed to bad ones) relative to subjectivity (individual circumstances/preferences/feelings) to to get up in the morning, but to claim it as logical is just erroneous.
In your own example you state that you "know" you would be able to "manage" the whole day "just fine". That is not a decision making process based on reason and logic, but on feelings and emotions, just like staying in bed until you no longer "feel" like it. First of all you can't know for certain (100%) that you have slept enough and that you would be able to manage the whole day just fine. Therefore you most likely would feel like you've slept enough. How exactly would you even define and categorize managing a day as "just fine" if not in relation to your own subjective understanding/perpsective of the management of a day and of categorizing the management of a day as "just fine".
Yeah, it was wrong of me using "logic" there, I should have used the word "rational" to avoid confusion. You can identify if something is "just fine", by comparing to similiar situations in which you had similar amount of hours of sleep. If you, through experience, have noticed that X hours of sleep is enough for you to get through the day without any noticable negative side-effects, then you are likely to be fine also this time when sleeping X hours unless you've noticed something significantely different about this particular case which may break the pattern.
While you may feel comfortable staying in bed, you can rationally reason for why getting up is a good idea despite feeling good in bed.
im waiting for the game for about 5 years i love what i c till this day and dont care what other think about it im gonna play it and that mi final desition ,if im gonna judge the game, im playing miself and then ill be the judge if like it or not i dont give a fk if lovers or hater give they personal opinion mi desition is final and that the way people suposed to think abouth theyr own personal desitions and things in life .
the best advise in life is the one you learn by yourself even doing good or bad things in life.
So, I should ignore all scientific studies regarding drinking and smoking and just try them and form my own opinion?
Point being: while you can learn good advice through personal trials, there is also good advice to be found from other sources.
In 234's example, it should be that no one has really been to the country/resort except reviewers bribed to do so and people who were members of the country's fanatical cult that only got to see a small part of it for half an hour.
Yeah, it was wrong of me using "logic" there, I should have used the word "rational" to avoid confusion. You can identify if something is "just fine", by comparing to similiar situations in which you had similar amount of hours of sleep. If you, through experience, have noticed that X hours of sleep is enough for you to get through the day without any noticable negative side-effects, then you are likely to be fine also this time when sleeping X hours unless you've noticed something significantely different about this particular case which may break the pattern.
While you may feel comfortable staying in bed, you can rationally reason for why getting up is a good idea despite feeling good in bed.
Rationalism is any view appealing to reason as a source of knowledge or justification. In more technical terms, it is a method or a theory in which the criterion of the truth is NOT SENSORY but intellectual and deductive.
Your definitions of "just fine" and enough hours of sleep are based on experience (i.e. empiricism) not rationalism.
Empiricism is a theory of knowledge that asserts that knowledge comes only or primarily from sensory experience. In other words, empiricism emphasizes the role of experience and evidence especially sensory perception (sleep, "just fine") in the formation of ideas, over the notion of innate ideas (truisms) or traditions (belief systems, etc).
Your argument is empirical not rational. Your argument is also subjective in its conclusions, in that your definition of "just fine" and enough sleep, due to its empirical basis (premises), are limited by the relativity of your perpsective and subjective nature of the inherent limitations of empiricism.
In other words, your example of waking up in the morning is not a good example of reason or logic getting things done. Both situations of getting up or staying in bed, based on your example, are "feeling" (experience/empirical) based decisions.
Yeah, it was wrong of me using "logic" there, I should have used the word "rational" to avoid confusion. You can identify if something is "just fine", by comparing to similiar situations in which you had similar amount of hours of sleep. If you, through experience, have noticed that X hours of sleep is enough for you to get through the day without any noticable negative side-effects, then you are likely to be fine also this time when sleeping X hours unless you've noticed something significantely different about this particular case which may break the pattern.
While you may feel comfortable staying in bed, you can rationally reason for why getting up is a good idea despite feeling good in bed.
Rationalism is any view appealing to reason as a source of knowledge or justification. In more technical terms, it is a method or a theory in which the criterion of the truth is NOT SENSORY but intellectual and deductive.
Your definitions of "just fine" and enough hours of sleep are based on experience (i.e. empiricism) not rationalism.
Empiricism is a theory of knowledge that asserts that knowledge comes only or primarily from sensory experience. In other words, empiricism emphasizes the role of experience and evidence especially sensory perception (sleep, "just fine") in the formation of ideas, over the notion of innate ideas (truisms) or traditions (belief systems, etc).
Your argument is empirical not rational. Your argument is also subjective in its conclusions, in that your definition of "just fine" and enough sleep, due to its empirical basis (premises), are limited by its relativity to your perpsective and subjective nature of the inherent limitations of empiricism.
While the grounds on which I based my hypothetical decision is empirical, the decision includes rationality in the sense that it uses probability to find a course of action. You are using rationality when you use probabilties to make a decision, even though the probabilties themselves are obtained through empirical studies.
Yeah, it was wrong of me using "logic" there, I should have used the word "rational" to avoid confusion. You can identify if something is "just fine", by comparing to similiar situations in which you had similar amount of hours of sleep. If you, through experience, have noticed that X hours of sleep is enough for you to get through the day without any noticable negative side-effects, then you are likely to be fine also this time when sleeping X hours unless you've noticed something significantely different about this particular case which may break the pattern.
While you may feel comfortable staying in bed, you can rationally reason for why getting up is a good idea despite feeling good in bed.
Rationalism is any view appealing to reason as a source of knowledge or justification. In more technical terms, it is a method or a theory in which the criterion of the truth is NOT SENSORY but intellectual and deductive.
Your definitions of "just fine" and enough hours of sleep are based on experience (i.e. empiricism) not rationalism.
Empiricism is a theory of knowledge that asserts that knowledge comes only or primarily from sensory experience. In other words, empiricism emphasizes the role of experience and evidence especially sensory perception (sleep, "just fine") in the formation of ideas, over the notion of innate ideas (truisms) or traditions (belief systems, etc).
Your argument is empirical not rational. Your argument is also subjective in its conclusions, in that your definition of "just fine" and enough sleep, due to its empirical basis (premises), are limited by its relativity to your perpsective and subjective nature of the inherent limitations of empiricism.
While the grounds on which I based my hypothetical decision is empirical, the decision includes rationality in the sense that it uses probability to find a course of action. You are using rationality when you use probabilties to make a decision, even though the probabilties themselves are obtained through empirical studies.
All you guys make me laugh using lawyer type lingo to argue a $60 video game. OMG It's going to be a fun game!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
im waiting for the game for about 5 years i love what i c till this day and dont care what other think about it im gonna play it and that mi final desition ,if im gonna judge the game, im playing miself and then ill be the judge if like it or not i dont give a fk if lovers or hater give they personal opinion mi desition is final and that the way people suposed to think abouth theyr own personal desitions and things in life .
the best advise in life is the one you learn by yourself even doing good or bad things in life.
So, I should ignore all scientific studies regarding drinking and smoking and just try them and form my own opinion?
Point being: while you can learn good advice through personal trials, there is also good advice to be found from other sources.
234
Your whole argument is " When Companies is selling products that they don't yet have ready to sell, its bad practice" , therefore " Consumers buying products Prior to having Actual Product available, enables Companies to sell products that they don't yet have ready to sell"
Althought your Argument is sound and appropriate.
With the new age of Digital Downloads, and Social Media, its no longer the same as before.
With Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Bloggers and Wiki, almost everything you need and want to know about the game is available for you to see and analyse.
Even the developers and Creators of the game is available to talk and answer your questions.
Because of the Social aspects, the product you are purchasing aren't unfamiliar to you anymore, not only does it create the false familiarity, it also makes Pre-Purchasing an extremely comfortable decision.
Is it truly a Bad Practice? Its only bad if Companies uses this method to promote a product that they know will tank and fail
But in good practice, it will promote the Companies and enable them to increase the production and polish of their product knowing that the masses have such great faith in their products.
And also due to the increase in Social Media in this Super Information age, if a company uses these methods in Bad Practices, we as gamers will bring down net in discussions and petitions.
SWTOR Ilum PVP was the Beginning, Mass Effect 3 Ending Opened the Door....
We as Gamers have more power, we have a Voice that can be heard around the world.
So embrace the new age, and experience the new evolution of PRE-ORDERS that we are now calling PRE-PURCHASE
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
The world revolve entirely around gut feeling and 'giving it a go' combined with logic. If you don't know that, you're obviously not a scientist or anyone else that makes a real difference.
The best people in the world know how to combine emotion with logic. The mediocre people can only do one or the other.
While the world, as in human actions and choices, currently revolves around logic and emotions, it doesn't mean the current proportions and usage-areas are the most efficient or even in range of the most efficient ones for the different purposes.
As for "scientist or anyone else that makes a real difference": difference in what context and for whom?
As for the "best people in the world": best according to which ideals?
Someone who tries not to understand a point is not worth discussing anything with
Especially someone who doesn't even make the tiniest of links like scientists making a difference. If you don't know how science makes a 'difference' you should focus less on trying to intiate stupid forum arguments and more on your education.
- Wife : Honey, let’s go down to the Caribbean for the holidays
- Me : Sure, do you have any place in mind ?
- Wife : Well, I don’t know, we can check on the net for resorts ?
- Me : Ok, let’s go have a look
- Wife : Oh !!! look at this one, it looks amazing and it only 2000$ per person
- Me : Hmmmm let’s check some reviews first
- Wife : See !! the reviews are amazing and the pictures on the site are beautiful … I want to go, let’s book the trip …
- Me : But honey, we don’t really know a lot about that resort, we can’t rely only on stranger’s comments to make our decision … its 4000$ in total …
- Wife : I don’t care, it looks amazing … I want to go, let’s book it RIGHT NOWWWW !!!!
- Me : Ok, if you say so …
4000$ gone in just a few minutes on a product we know almost nothing about besides pictures from a web site, videos from YouTube and some reviews from complete strangers, does that ring a bell ?? If millions of people (I gather that people all around the world do go on vacation once in a while) are willing to just give their hard earn money IN ADVANCE for a 7 day trip that LOOKS LIKE paradise but might end up going either way (good/bad), I think dishing out 60$ for a game that LOOKS LIKE fun but might end up going either way (god/bad) is not that unreasonable … My wife and I do this twice a year actually and believe me, there were times where we regretted it BUT other times where whe had the time of our lives ...
So, yes, I pre-purchased GW2 and if I come to regret it … to bad so sad, ill just move on to better things.
I don't think people really just purchase vacation packages online like there. Generally with resorts you have a travel agency set everything up for you. Since the travel agent is setting it all up it assures quality. You are not buying a Caribbean vacation you are buying a Caribbean vacation package from X agency.
The opinion's of complete strangers are the ones you should be most interested in. Strangers have no reason to lie to you and unless they are compulsive liars there is no reason not to believe them.
A better analogy would be this.
Me: Hey Baby let's go to the Bahamas!
Wife: Sounds great! There is a package here for $1000 or we can spend $1000 for a hotel that isn't built yet!
Me: Honey, a hotel that isn't built yet, are you serious?
Wife: We can't choose what time we go down and they'll get us there when it is finished.
Me: But they're the same price...
Wife: But what if the new hotel is better?
Me: Maybe we should wait for it to be done.....
Wife: NO I WANT TO HAVE A GREAT VACATION WHY DON'T YOU LOVE ME I'M GOING TO GO CHEAT ON YOU NOW
Me: ...
A pre-purchase is not a regular pratice in other markets, despite other people trying to claim otherwise.
Well, we usually never go thru an agency and mostly use Expedia for our bookings for any trips we might do, but that is besides the point, what i was trying to get at is that people do pay in full for certain services that they have yet to recieve, i have never heard of an agency that charges only after your trip, otherwise, people would most likely not pay up if the trip in question was a disaster, they always charge the full amount at the time of the booking.
As for stranger's opinions, well, i usually dont take them to seriously, good or bad, if i am really interested in a product, i will make my own opinion on it
Now, if people want to hold back on purchasing GW2 until they get more information on it, more power to all of you. I for one, have looked at the pictures/videos and that was enought for me to dish out that 60$ for what i think will be, at least for a few months, a damn good past time :-)
Yeah, it was wrong of me using "logic" there, I should have used the word "rational" to avoid confusion. You can identify if something is "just fine", by comparing to similiar situations in which you had similar amount of hours of sleep. If you, through experience, have noticed that X hours of sleep is enough for you to get through the day without any noticable negative side-effects, then you are likely to be fine also this time when sleeping X hours unless you've noticed something significantely different about this particular case which may break the pattern.
While you may feel comfortable staying in bed, you can rationally reason for why getting up is a good idea despite feeling good in bed.
Rationalism is any view appealing to reason as a source of knowledge or justification. In more technical terms, it is a method or a theory in which the criterion of the truth is NOT SENSORY but intellectual and deductive.
Your definitions of "just fine" and enough hours of sleep are based on experience (i.e. empiricism) not rationalism.
Empiricism is a theory of knowledge that asserts that knowledge comes only or primarily from sensory experience. In other words, empiricism emphasizes the role of experience and evidence especially sensory perception (sleep, "just fine") in the formation of ideas, over the notion of innate ideas (truisms) or traditions (belief systems, etc).
Your argument is empirical not rational. Your argument is also subjective in its conclusions, in that your definition of "just fine" and enough sleep, due to its empirical basis (premises), are limited by its relativity to your perpsective and subjective nature of the inherent limitations of empiricism.
While the grounds on which I based my hypothetical decision is empirical, the decision includes rationality in the sense that it uses probability to find a course of action. You are using rationality when you use probabilties to make a decision, even though the probabilties themselves are obtained through empirical studies.
I love it when someone tries to use many, many big words in order to sound more intelligent Back in my degree, i would have actually been smacked down to oblivion (marks wise) for the drivel you just barfed onto the screen.
If you don't put your argument in a simple way, it shows you're not actually confident in your argument
First of all, I do not consider any of them to be "big words" as you put it. Secondly, until I was called out on using the word "logical" in layman terms, I was keeping the argument simple, in my opinion. To continue, I do not know neither the general description of the education you received nor the specifics, so you telling me that you would have been receiving significantely worse marks, tells me very little except maybe a guess that you are intending to amuse yourself and perhaps feel like insulting me.
Furthermore, until I see a reliable study regarding "putting your argument in a simple way" and "being confident in the argument", I can't use it as if it were true.
The world revolve entirely around gut feeling and 'giving it a go' combined with logic. If you don't know that, you're obviously not a scientist or anyone else that makes a real difference.
The best people in the world know how to combine emotion with logic. The mediocre people can only do one or the other.
While the world, as in human actions and choices, currently revolves around logic and emotions, it doesn't mean the current proportions and usage-areas are the most efficient or even in range of the most efficient ones for the different purposes.
As for "scientist or anyone else that makes a real difference": difference in what context and for whom?
As for the "best people in the world": best according to which ideals?
Someone who tries not to understand a point is not worth discussing anything with
Especially someone who doesn't even make the tiniest of links like scientists making a difference. If you don't know how science makes a 'difference' you should focus less on trying to intiate stupid forum arguments and more on your education.
I asked so that I wouldn't have to start posting multiple scenarios answering to the different cases you may have refered to.
A few examples:
If you meant that scientists make a positive difference for the sake of humanity: they do not necessarily do that. Work from individual scientists may never come into practical use and they may never significantely add to our knowledge regarding how nature works. While I don't doubt that the ambition of many scientists is to do one of those things, I can very well imagine cases in which they never reach those goals.
There is also a distinction between doing a positive difference for the sake of humanity and simply making a difference in the market product-wise. The latter does not need to mean anything special for humanity, even though it makes a difference commercially.
Also certain work from scientists may make a difference for a certain current population, but not any noticable difference for future or simply different populations.
im waiting for the game for about 5 years i love what i c till this day and dont care what other think about it im gonna play it and that mi final desition ,if im gonna judge the game, im playing miself and then ill be the judge if like it or not i dont give a fk if lovers or hater give they personal opinion mi desition is final and that the way people suposed to think abouth theyr own personal desitions and things in life .
the best advise in life is the one you learn by yourself even doing good or bad things in life.
So, I should ignore all scientific studies regarding drinking and smoking and just try them and form my own opinion?
Point being: while you can learn good advice through personal trials, there is also good advice to be found from other sources.
234
Your whole argument is " When Companies is selling products that they don't yet have ready to sell, its bad practice" , therefore " Consumers buying products Prior to having Actual Product available, enables Companies to sell products that they don't yet have ready to sell"
Althought your Argument is sound and appropriate.
With the new age of Digital Downloads, and Social Media, its no longer the same as before.
With Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Bloggers and Wiki, almost everything you need and want to know about the game is available for you to see and analyse.
Even the developers and Creators of the game is available to talk and answer your questions.
Because of the Social aspects, the product you are purchasing aren't unfamiliar to you anymore, not only does it create the false familiarity, it also makes Pre-Purchasing an extremely comfortable decision.
Is it truly a Bad Practice? Its only bad if Companies uses this method to promote a product that they know will tank and fail
But in good practice, it will promote the Companies and enable them to increase the production and polish of their product knowing that the masses have such great faith in their products.
And also due to the increase in Social Media in this Super Information age, if a company uses these methods in Bad Practices, we as gamers will bring down net in discussions and petitions.
SWTOR Ilum PVP was the Beginning, Mass Effect 3 Ending Opened the Door....
We as Gamers have more power, we have a Voice that can be heard around the world.
So embrace the new age, and experience the new evolution of PRE-ORDERS that we are now calling PRE-PURCHASE
Pre-order and pre-purchase are not the same thing at all. Why would anyone pretend it is? This new age reminds me of "the emperors new cloths".
Why do you think they have a NDA? They will not answer any questions that they think they need to keep secret. Public/open beta testers will probably only be allowed to see and experience parts of the game and its content. Not like closed beta testers...
They dont want information that they think could be harmful to become public. There are other reasons also. But thats part of it.
im waiting for the game for about 5 years i love what i c till this day and dont care what other think about it im gonna play it and that mi final desition ,if im gonna judge the game, im playing miself and then ill be the judge if like it or not i dont give a fk if lovers or hater give they personal opinion mi desition is final and that the way people suposed to think abouth theyr own personal desitions and things in life .
the best advise in life is the one you learn by yourself even doing good or bad things in life.
So, I should ignore all scientific studies regarding drinking and smoking and just try them and form my own opinion?
Point being: while you can learn good advice through personal trials, there is also good advice to be found from other sources.
234
Your whole argument is " When Companies is selling products that they don't yet have ready to sell, its bad practice" , therefore " Consumers buying products Prior to having Actual Product available, enables Companies to sell products that they don't yet have ready to sell"
Althought your Argument is sound and appropriate.
With the new age of Digital Downloads, and Social Media, its no longer the same as before.
With Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Bloggers and Wiki, almost everything you need and want to know about the game is available for you to see and analyse.
Even the developers and Creators of the game is available to talk and answer your questions.
Because of the Social aspects, the product you are purchasing aren't unfamiliar to you anymore, not only does it create the false familiarity, it also makes Pre-Purchasing an extremely comfortable decision.
Is it truly a Bad Practice? Its only bad if Companies uses this method to promote a product that they know will tank and fail
But in good practice, it will promote the Companies and enable them to increase the production and polish of their product knowing that the masses have such great faith in their products.
And also due to the increase in Social Media in this Super Information age, if a company uses these methods in Bad Practices, we as gamers will bring down net in discussions and petitions.
SWTOR Ilum PVP was the Beginning, Mass Effect 3 Ending Opened the Door....
We as Gamers have more power, we have a Voice that can be heard around the world.
So embrace the new age, and experience the new evolution of PRE-ORDERS that we are now calling PRE-PURCHASE
Pre-order and pre-purchase are not the same thing at all. Why would anyone pretend it is? This new age reminds me of "the emperors new cloths".
Why do you think they have a NDA? They will not answer any questions that they think they need to keep secret. Public/open beta testers will probably only be allowed to see and experience parts of the game and its content. Not like closed beta testers...
They dont want information that they think could be harmful to become public. There are other reasons also. But thats part of it.
Pre-order and Pre-Purchase aren't the same things, I never said they are, in my post I said Pre-Purchase is the evolution of Pre-Orders.
Pre-Order, you are agreeing to yourself that once the game goes live, I will have a copy reserved and ready for pick up. I can either pay in full prior to release date, or Pay 5 dollars to ensure I have a copy. Or i can cancel if I decided that the game isn't want I want afterall.
Pre-Purchase, you are agreeing to yourself that once the game goes live, My game is already paid in full, its mine, the game company is just holding it. I know I have a copy, I know that I am stuck if I decided last minute that I don't actually want it afterall.
its really an evolution of another.
And your NDA, of course its there, but if you compare to a few years ago, where did you get all your informations regarding UO, EQ, WOW, you didn't get any insider views, Bloggers aren't given Press privileges. The only information was only from TV interviews.
NDA have to exist to ensure that any information they present are information they are ready to be presented, others are kept not as secret, but rather as an Unknown.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Unless there is a free trial the only difference between purchasing at launch versus pre-order/purchase is the date. You are still going off of available information to make your decision. Pre-order just gets a few bonus perks for the risk you take. It's just like making a deposit or a down payment. Also, when you go to a new restaurant you have never been to do you know you will like the food? No, you have to go off of available information - reviews, word of mouth, etc. After all, what's life without a little risk? Trying new things, taking risks, yeah sometimes you will get burned. Reality 101.
I don't think the restaurant is a good example. I never pay for food before I get to see it, do you? I would never go to a new cafe, and pay for a meal, before it is even built. I guess it does make sense, if you were planning to buy anyway, to pre-purchase to get the perks. But no-one should ever be able to back out of that.
"Never pay for food before I get to see it" "Pay for a meal before it is even built." Apparently you've never been to a sit down restaurant?
What? Where do you live that you have to pay before you get your food? I have never done that. You live where restaurants charge before they start cooking? Where is that? :P Every sit-down restaurant that I have been in, around the world, always serves you the food, and THEN gives you the check. The only other business that I can think of that charges you before delivering a product is the airlines.
????
Whilst all upmarket restaurants work as you describe, in England there are plenty of chain pub come restaurants which you pay for the meal when you order it at the bar. In fact its quite common here..
While the grounds on which I based my hypothetical decision is empirical, the decision includes rationality in the sense that it uses probability to find a course of action. You are using rationality when you use probabilties to make a decision, even though the probabilties themselves are obtained through empirical studies.
234 if your argument is based on empirical evidence then your argument is empirical, not rational. You are certainly using logic, that is "empirical logic" as opposed to "rational logic". By no means is your argument any less legitimate by the use of empiricism. Only issue I have is that you're claiming to be using rationalism when in fact you are using empiricism.
Probability is not congruent with rationalism nor with empricism as an element of each of their principles but rather a use/form of logic. Probability is used to describe an attitude of mind towards some propositions of whose truth we are not certain. Probability in an applied sense as a subjective (relative to the individual) measure of the confidence a person has that an event will occur. Variables in certainty are based on the logical connection between premises and their conclusions; of which can be arrived via rationalism and/or empiricism. Conclusions live and die based on the validity/truth of their connections to their premises. Probablity is more closely associated with empiricism than with rationalism, since probability necessitates the use of measurable (empirical) evidence in order to suport its conclusions.
In the case of your example, your conclusion is solely based on empirical evidence, thus your argument is empirical. To claim that your argument is rationalistic when you are using empiricism is misleading, disingenuous and dishonest.
While the grounds on which I based my hypothetical decision is empirical, the decision includes rationality in the sense that it uses probability to find a course of action. You are using rationality when you use probabilties to make a decision, even though the probabilties themselves are obtained through empirical studies.
234 if your argument is based on empirical evidence then your argument is empirical, not rational. You are certainly using logic, that is "empirical logic" as opposed to "rational logic". By no means is your argument any less legitimate by the use of empiricism. Only issue I have is that you're claiming to be using rationalism when in fact you are using empiricism.
Probability is not congruent with rationalism nor with empricism as an element of each of their principles but rather a use/form of logic. Probability is used to describe an attitude of mind towards some propositions of whose truth we are not certain. Probability in an applied sense as a subjective (relative to the individual) measure of the confidence a person has that an event will occur. Variables in certainty are based on the logical connection between premises and their conclusions; of which can be arrived via rationalism and/or empiricism. Conclusions live and die based on the validity/truth of their connections to their premises. Probablity is more closely associated with empiricism than with rationalism, since probability necessitates the use of measurable (empirical) evidence in order to suport its conclusions.
In the case of your example, your conclusion is solely based on empirical evidence, thus your argument is empirical. To claim that your argument is rationalistic when you are using empiricism is misleading, disingenuous and dishonest.
I realize that in philosophy there may be certain special terms or set of terms which have special meaning and conditions when used together. Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if there are special conditions needed for philosophers to call something "empirical logic " or "rational logic" even though the reasoning itself is both based on reason and empiri.
If I assume that wikipiedia is correct when it says that "rationality is the exercise of reason", then understanding how probablities work and then using that understanding to draw a conclusion is an exercise of reason and thus use of rationality.
When I refer to probability, I do not refer to the subjective measure of confidence of a person that an event will occur, I am refering to the strictly mathematical "probability", more specifically: "mathematical probability theory". Mathematical probability theory does not necessitate the use of measurable empirical evidence to support is conclusions, it can be held completely abstract without any measurement and still yield conclusions which are true. In fact practically all conclusion of mathematical probability theory are true, but in order to apply them in different "real life" cases, a good model of reality needs to be setuped on which the theory is later applied. If wrong results are yielded, it is not because the mathematical probability theory was wrong, but because the modelling was wrong or too inaccurate.
Using mathematical probability theory, one can understand that if we guess that there is a large probability for something to happen, and after many tries it doesn't happen, either we just witnessed a very rare occurrance or our guess was very inaccurate. It sounds like common sense, but it is also supported by mathematical probability theory. The problem is that perhaps we altered the situation between different tries such that the probability changed a lot: it is here modelling is very important. The model I assumed in the sleeping case was that the actual probability (probability for not being able to physicalky make through the day sufficiently well due to only sleeping X hours, which is a probability which we don't know, but could estimate) is very small in all tries where we don't notice a large disruptance from regular life (like maybe a car accident or marathon prior to going to sleep). The hypothetical empirical evidence shows that if my model is correct, then the results of the tries are consistent with the model; however, that doesn't garantuee that the model is correct.
A fun note about probabilties and current physics: there is non-zero probability that the next footstep you take will spontaneously disintegrate you . It is just so ridiculously small that in practice it never happens.
im waiting for the game for about 5 years i love what i c till this day and dont care what other think about it im gonna play it and that mi final desition ,if im gonna judge the game, im playing miself and then ill be the judge if like it or not i dont give a fk if lovers or hater give they personal opinion mi desition is final and that the way people suposed to think abouth theyr own personal desitions and things in life .
the best advise in life is the one you learn by yourself even doing good or bad things in life.
So, I should ignore all scientific studies regarding drinking and smoking and just try them and form my own opinion?
Point being: while you can learn good advice through personal trials, there is also good advice to be found from other sources.
234
Your whole argument is " When Companies is selling products that they don't yet have ready to sell, its bad practice" , therefore " Consumers buying products Prior to having Actual Product available, enables Companies to sell products that they don't yet have ready to sell"
Althought your Argument is sound and appropriate.
With the new age of Digital Downloads, and Social Media, its no longer the same as before.
With Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Bloggers and Wiki, almost everything you need and want to know about the game is available for you to see and analyse.
Even the developers and Creators of the game is available to talk and answer your questions.
Because of the Social aspects, the product you are purchasing aren't unfamiliar to you anymore, not only does it create the false familiarity, it also makes Pre-Purchasing an extremely comfortable decision.
Is it truly a Bad Practice? Its only bad if Companies uses this method to promote a product that they know will tank and fail
But in good practice, it will promote the Companies and enable them to increase the production and polish of their product knowing that the masses have such great faith in their products.
And also due to the increase in Social Media in this Super Information age, if a company uses these methods in Bad Practices, we as gamers will bring down net in discussions and petitions.
SWTOR Ilum PVP was the Beginning, Mass Effect 3 Ending Opened the Door....
We as Gamers have more power, we have a Voice that can be heard around the world.
So embrace the new age, and experience the new evolution of PRE-ORDERS that we are now calling PRE-PURCHASE
Pre-order and pre-purchase are not the same thing at all. Why would anyone pretend it is? This new age reminds me of "the emperors new cloths".
Why do you think they have a NDA? They will not answer any questions that they think they need to keep secret. Public/open beta testers will probably only be allowed to see and experience parts of the game and its content. Not like closed beta testers...
They dont want information that they think could be harmful to become public. There are other reasons also. But thats part of it.
Pre-order and Pre-Purchase aren't the same things, I never said they are, in my post I said Pre-Purchase is the evolution of Pre-Orders.
Pre-Order, you are agreeing to yourself that once the game goes live, I will have a copy reserved and ready for pick up. I can either pay in full prior to release date, or Pay 5 dollars to ensure I have a copy. Or i can cancel if I decided that the game isn't want I want afterall.
Pre-Purchase, you are agreeing to yourself that once the game goes live, My game is already paid in full, its mine, the game company is just holding it. I know I have a copy, I know that I am stuck if I decided last minute that I don't actually want it afterall.
its really an evolution of another.
And your NDA, of course its there, but if you compare to a few years ago, where did you get all your informations regarding UO, EQ, WOW, you didn't get any insider views, Bloggers aren't given Press privileges. The only information was only from TV interviews.
NDA have to exist to ensure that any information they present are information they are ready to be presented, others are kept not as secret, but rather as an Unknown.
BTW. I just heard govt agents are heading towards your house!
Dude you better run, you cant give away all of thier secrets, they will destroy the world!! Oh, and the russians are in secret deals with Anet to steal everyones identity, so use a false CC if you can.
But really, since we can NEVER prove what a game company is going to do a year down the road, we might as well all quit playing MMOs. Its been great knowing you all.
Nothing to see here, just fanboi being fanboi...................... If upon release, and 3 months after, there is no p2w in that cash shop I'll consider buying it.
BUT WHAT IF IT BECOMES P2W IN 3 MONTHS AND 2 DAYS?!?!??!11?1?11!! YOU WOULD HAVE WASTED UR MONEYZ!!!1!
Really, does it even matter? If $60 is that big of an issue, I would like to suggest eliminating your video game habit and either picking up a second job or spending your time increasing your education level or figuring out another way to make more money for the hours you work.
Actually, i am one of the people that could really rock a p2w system, the thing is these games are my escape. I don't want to log and see a stripclub DJ type add, "quick its double cash tuesday, can't afford it, eff it fianance it"..................................More to the point for me I want the game, after the initial purchase or a sub fee that everyone pays, to be independant of the real world and the includes real world money. It matters because I don't want to invest time in a game that I like only to have it be rendered unenjoyable by p2w. I hope I explained my position to your satisfaction. [Mod Edit]
Nothing to see here, just fanboi being fanboi...................... If upon release, and 3 months after, there is no p2w in that cash shop I'll consider buying it.
BUT WHAT IF IT BECOMES P2W IN 3 MONTHS AND 2 DAYS?!?!??!11?1?11!! YOU WOULD HAVE WASTED UR MONEYZ!!!1!
Really, does it even matter? If $60 is that big of an issue, I would like to suggest eliminating your video game habit and either picking up a second job or spending your time increasing your education level or figuring out another way to make more money for the hours you work.
Actually, i am one of the people that could really rock a p2w system, the thing is these games are my escape. I don't want to log and see a stripclub DJ type add, "quick its double cash tuesday, can't afford it, eff it fianance it"..................................More to the point for me I want the game, after the initial purchase or a sub fee that everyone pays, to be independant of the real world and the includes real world money. It matters because I don't want to invest time in a game that I like only to have it be rendered unenjoyable by p2w. [Mod Edit]
Explain how you will ever "know" what a game company is going to do a year down the road?
Since you can NEVER know this, tell us Gator boy, why do you keep playing MMOs?
Nothing to see here, just fanboi being fanboi...................... If upon release, and 3 months after, there is no p2w in that cash shop I'll consider buying it.
This is whats wrong around here. People thinking others should give a damn if they do or dont buy a game. I wipe my ass with your "three month test period." That goes for the other side of the fence as well, all those people who make it their personal mission to convert people.
Im not singling out this person either, you see this shit everywhere. Its like there is this holy crusade to make sure everyone buys GW2. Its getting a little rediculous around here lately.
I bought the game already, so no need to try and convert me.
Yeah, except I wasn't trying to convince you one way or the other, that's the problem with generation occupy, you guys think you're special snow flakes and that what you do matters to the rest of us.....................I don't care what you do, i just posted what I posted because the fan boi crusade on behalf of this game is overwhelming, and ya know what, they're on to something...................but a korean style p2w game isn't revolutionary or original and all their good works are dung piles if that's what it is. I am not even certain that's what its going to become, but cash shops invariably aren't good.
Nothing to see here, just fanboi being fanboi...................... If upon release, and 3 months after, there is no p2w in that cash shop I'll consider buying it.
BUT WHAT IF IT BECOMES P2W IN 3 MONTHS AND 2 DAYS?!?!??!11?1?11!! YOU WOULD HAVE WASTED UR MONEYZ!!!1!
Really, does it even matter? If $60 is that big of an issue, I would like to suggest eliminating your video game habit and either picking up a second job or spending your time increasing your education level or figuring out another way to make more money for the hours you work.
Actually, i am one of the people that could really rock a p2w system, the thing is these games are my escape. I don't want to log and see a stripclub DJ type add, "quick its double cash tuesday, can't afford it, eff it fianance it"..................................More to the point for me I want the game, after the initial purchase or a sub fee that everyone pays, to be independant of the real world and the includes real world money. It matters because I don't want to invest time in a game that I like only to have it be rendered unenjoyable by p2w. I hope I explained my position to your satisfaction. [Mod Edit]
Explain how you will ever "know" what a game company is going to do a year down the road?
Since you can NEVER know this, tell us Gator boy, why do you keep playing MMOs?
Cash shops in most cases lead to p2w, how do you know that this game will be the exception to the rule? Betting on somethign to be the "exception to the rule" is the sort of bet Vegas and bookies would love.
Nothing to see here, just fanboi being fanboi...................... If upon release, and 3 months after, there is no p2w in that cash shop I'll consider buying it.
This is whats wrong around here. People thinking others should give a damn if they do or dont buy a game. I wipe my ass with your "three month test period." That goes for the other side of the fence as well, all those people who make it their personal mission to convert people.
Im not singling out this person either, you see this shit everywhere. Its like there is this holy crusade to make sure everyone buys GW2. Its getting a little rediculous around here lately.
I bought the game already, so no need to try and convert me.
Yeah, except I wasn't trying to convince you one way or the other, that's the problem with generation occupy, you guys think you're special snow flakes and that what you do matters to the rest of us.....................I don't care what you do, i just posted what I posted because the fan boi crusade on behalf of this game is overwhelming, and ya know what, they're on to something...................but a korean style p2w game isn't revolutionary or original and all their good works are dung piles if that's what it is. I am not even certain that's what its going to become, but cash shops invariably aren't good.
For someone claiming not to be convincing people of his opinion, you sure are a prolific poster. Its clear you do not wish to see anybody elses opinions, so whats the point?
Everyone here knows the risk, if Anet screws this up, we will go somewhere else, its that simple.
Comments
While the world, as in human actions and choices, currently revolves around logic and emotions, it doesn't mean the current proportions and usage-areas are the most efficient or even in range of the most efficient ones for the different purposes.
As for "scientist or anyone else that makes a real difference": difference in what context and for whom?
As for the "best people in the world": best according to which ideals?
wow, are we really bringing logic into mmorpgs? First of all, the example of waking up in the morning as being logical makes no sense at all. Logic has to do with the validity, truth and falseness of arguments, in regards to the connection of premisses with their conclusions. Getting things done has no direct correlation with logic in it of itself. Sure, there may be "logical" reasons which cause things to get done, but to claim that things get done solely due to logic is preposterous. You may have good reasons (as opposed to bad ones) relative to subjectivity (individual circumstances/preferences/feelings) to to get up in the morning, but to claim it as logical is just erroneous.
In your own example you state that you "know" you would be able to "manage" the whole day "just fine". That is not a decision making process based on reason and logic, but on feelings and emotions, just like staying in bed until you no longer "feel" like it. First of all you can't know for certain (100%) that you have slept enough and that you would be able to manage the whole day just fine. Therefore you most likely would feel like you've slept enough. How exactly would you even define and categorize managing a day as "just fine" if not in relation to your own subjective understanding/perpsective of the management of a day and of categorizing the management of a day as "just fine".
im waiting for the game for about 5 years i love what i c till this day and dont care what other think about it im gonna play it and that mi final desition ,if im gonna judge the game, im playing miself and then ill be the judge if like it or not i dont give a fk if lovers or hater give they personal opinion mi desition is final and that the way people suposed to think abouth theyr own personal desitions and things in life .
the best advise in life is the one you learn by yourself even doing good or bad things in life.
Yeah, it was wrong of me using "logic" there, I should have used the word "rational" to avoid confusion. You can identify if something is "just fine", by comparing to similiar situations in which you had similar amount of hours of sleep. If you, through experience, have noticed that X hours of sleep is enough for you to get through the day without any noticable negative side-effects, then you are likely to be fine also this time when sleeping X hours unless you've noticed something significantely different about this particular case which may break the pattern.
While you may feel comfortable staying in bed, you can rationally reason for why getting up is a good idea despite feeling good in bed.
So, I should ignore all scientific studies regarding drinking and smoking and just try them and form my own opinion?
Point being: while you can learn good advice through personal trials, there is also good advice to be found from other sources.
In 234's example, it should be that no one has really been to the country/resort except reviewers bribed to do so and people who were members of the country's fanatical cult that only got to see a small part of it for half an hour.
Rationalism is any view appealing to reason as a source of knowledge or justification. In more technical terms, it is a method or a theory in which the criterion of the truth is NOT SENSORY but intellectual and deductive.
Your definitions of "just fine" and enough hours of sleep are based on experience (i.e. empiricism) not rationalism.
Empiricism is a theory of knowledge that asserts that knowledge comes only or primarily from sensory experience. In other words, empiricism emphasizes the role of experience and evidence especially sensory perception (sleep, "just fine") in the formation of ideas, over the notion of innate ideas (truisms) or traditions (belief systems, etc).
Your argument is empirical not rational. Your argument is also subjective in its conclusions, in that your definition of "just fine" and enough sleep, due to its empirical basis (premises), are limited by the relativity of your perpsective and subjective nature of the inherent limitations of empiricism.
In other words, your example of waking up in the morning is not a good example of reason or logic getting things done. Both situations of getting up or staying in bed, based on your example, are "feeling" (experience/empirical) based decisions.
While the grounds on which I based my hypothetical decision is empirical, the decision includes rationality in the sense that it uses probability to find a course of action. You are using rationality when you use probabilties to make a decision, even though the probabilties themselves are obtained through empirical studies.
All you guys make me laugh using lawyer type lingo to argue a $60 video game. OMG It's going to be a fun game!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
234
Your whole argument is " When Companies is selling products that they don't yet have ready to sell, its bad practice" , therefore " Consumers buying products Prior to having Actual Product available, enables Companies to sell products that they don't yet have ready to sell"
Althought your Argument is sound and appropriate.
With the new age of Digital Downloads, and Social Media, its no longer the same as before.
With Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, Bloggers and Wiki, almost everything you need and want to know about the game is available for you to see and analyse.
Even the developers and Creators of the game is available to talk and answer your questions.
Because of the Social aspects, the product you are purchasing aren't unfamiliar to you anymore, not only does it create the false familiarity, it also makes Pre-Purchasing an extremely comfortable decision.
Is it truly a Bad Practice? Its only bad if Companies uses this method to promote a product that they know will tank and fail
But in good practice, it will promote the Companies and enable them to increase the production and polish of their product knowing that the masses have such great faith in their products.
And also due to the increase in Social Media in this Super Information age, if a company uses these methods in Bad Practices, we as gamers will bring down net in discussions and petitions.
SWTOR Ilum PVP was the Beginning, Mass Effect 3 Ending Opened the Door....
We as Gamers have more power, we have a Voice that can be heard around the world.
So embrace the new age, and experience the new evolution of PRE-ORDERS that we are now calling PRE-PURCHASE
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Someone who tries not to understand a point is not worth discussing anything with
Especially someone who doesn't even make the tiniest of links like scientists making a difference. If you don't know how science makes a 'difference' you should focus less on trying to intiate stupid forum arguments and more on your education.
Well, we usually never go thru an agency and mostly use Expedia for our bookings for any trips we might do, but that is besides the point, what i was trying to get at is that people do pay in full for certain services that they have yet to recieve, i have never heard of an agency that charges only after your trip, otherwise, people would most likely not pay up if the trip in question was a disaster, they always charge the full amount at the time of the booking.
As for stranger's opinions, well, i usually dont take them to seriously, good or bad, if i am really interested in a product, i will make my own opinion on it
Now, if people want to hold back on purchasing GW2 until they get more information on it, more power to all of you. I for one, have looked at the pictures/videos and that was enought for me to dish out that 60$ for what i think will be, at least for a few months, a damn good past time :-)
First of all, I do not consider any of them to be "big words" as you put it. Secondly, until I was called out on using the word "logical" in layman terms, I was keeping the argument simple, in my opinion. To continue, I do not know neither the general description of the education you received nor the specifics, so you telling me that you would have been receiving significantely worse marks, tells me very little except maybe a guess that you are intending to amuse yourself and perhaps feel like insulting me.
Furthermore, until I see a reliable study regarding "putting your argument in a simple way" and "being confident in the argument", I can't use it as if it were true.
I asked so that I wouldn't have to start posting multiple scenarios answering to the different cases you may have refered to.
A few examples:
If you meant that scientists make a positive difference for the sake of humanity: they do not necessarily do that. Work from individual scientists may never come into practical use and they may never significantely add to our knowledge regarding how nature works. While I don't doubt that the ambition of many scientists is to do one of those things, I can very well imagine cases in which they never reach those goals.
There is also a distinction between doing a positive difference for the sake of humanity and simply making a difference in the market product-wise. The latter does not need to mean anything special for humanity, even though it makes a difference commercially.
Also certain work from scientists may make a difference for a certain current population, but not any noticable difference for future or simply different populations.
Pre-order and pre-purchase are not the same thing at all. Why would anyone pretend it is? This new age reminds me of "the emperors new cloths".
Why do you think they have a NDA? They will not answer any questions that they think they need to keep secret. Public/open beta testers will probably only be allowed to see and experience parts of the game and its content. Not like closed beta testers...
They dont want information that they think could be harmful to become public. There are other reasons also. But thats part of it.
Pre-order and Pre-Purchase aren't the same things, I never said they are, in my post I said Pre-Purchase is the evolution of Pre-Orders.
Pre-Order, you are agreeing to yourself that once the game goes live, I will have a copy reserved and ready for pick up. I can either pay in full prior to release date, or Pay 5 dollars to ensure I have a copy. Or i can cancel if I decided that the game isn't want I want afterall.
Pre-Purchase, you are agreeing to yourself that once the game goes live, My game is already paid in full, its mine, the game company is just holding it. I know I have a copy, I know that I am stuck if I decided last minute that I don't actually want it afterall.
its really an evolution of another.
And your NDA, of course its there, but if you compare to a few years ago, where did you get all your informations regarding UO, EQ, WOW, you didn't get any insider views, Bloggers aren't given Press privileges. The only information was only from TV interviews.
NDA have to exist to ensure that any information they present are information they are ready to be presented, others are kept not as secret, but rather as an Unknown.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
????
Whilst all upmarket restaurants work as you describe, in England there are plenty of chain pub come restaurants which you pay for the meal when you order it at the bar. In fact its quite common here..
234 if your argument is based on empirical evidence then your argument is empirical, not rational. You are certainly using logic, that is "empirical logic" as opposed to "rational logic". By no means is your argument any less legitimate by the use of empiricism. Only issue I have is that you're claiming to be using rationalism when in fact you are using empiricism.
Probability is not congruent with rationalism nor with empricism as an element of each of their principles but rather a use/form of logic. Probability is used to describe an attitude of mind towards some propositions of whose truth we are not certain. Probability in an applied sense as a subjective (relative to the individual) measure of the confidence a person has that an event will occur. Variables in certainty are based on the logical connection between premises and their conclusions; of which can be arrived via rationalism and/or empiricism. Conclusions live and die based on the validity/truth of their connections to their premises. Probablity is more closely associated with empiricism than with rationalism, since probability necessitates the use of measurable (empirical) evidence in order to suport its conclusions.
In the case of your example, your conclusion is solely based on empirical evidence, thus your argument is empirical. To claim that your argument is rationalistic when you are using empiricism is misleading, disingenuous and dishonest.
I realize that in philosophy there may be certain special terms or set of terms which have special meaning and conditions when used together. Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if there are special conditions needed for philosophers to call something "empirical logic " or "rational logic" even though the reasoning itself is both based on reason and empiri.
If I assume that wikipiedia is correct when it says that "rationality is the exercise of reason", then understanding how probablities work and then using that understanding to draw a conclusion is an exercise of reason and thus use of rationality.
When I refer to probability, I do not refer to the subjective measure of confidence of a person that an event will occur, I am refering to the strictly mathematical "probability", more specifically: "mathematical probability theory". Mathematical probability theory does not necessitate the use of measurable empirical evidence to support is conclusions, it can be held completely abstract without any measurement and still yield conclusions which are true. In fact practically all conclusion of mathematical probability theory are true, but in order to apply them in different "real life" cases, a good model of reality needs to be setuped on which the theory is later applied. If wrong results are yielded, it is not because the mathematical probability theory was wrong, but because the modelling was wrong or too inaccurate.
Using mathematical probability theory, one can understand that if we guess that there is a large probability for something to happen, and after many tries it doesn't happen, either we just witnessed a very rare occurrance or our guess was very inaccurate. It sounds like common sense, but it is also supported by mathematical probability theory. The problem is that perhaps we altered the situation between different tries such that the probability changed a lot: it is here modelling is very important. The model I assumed in the sleeping case was that the actual probability (probability for not being able to physicalky make through the day sufficiently well due to only sleeping X hours, which is a probability which we don't know, but could estimate) is very small in all tries where we don't notice a large disruptance from regular life (like maybe a car accident or marathon prior to going to sleep). The hypothetical empirical evidence shows that if my model is correct, then the results of the tries are consistent with the model; however, that doesn't garantuee that the model is correct.
A fun note about probabilties and current physics: there is non-zero probability that the next footstep you take will spontaneously disintegrate you . It is just so ridiculously small that in practice it never happens.
BTW. I just heard govt agents are heading towards your house!
Dude you better run, you cant give away all of thier secrets, they will destroy the world!! Oh, and the russians are in secret deals with Anet to steal everyones identity, so use a false CC if you can.
But really, since we can NEVER prove what a game company is going to do a year down the road, we might as well all quit playing MMOs. Its been great knowing you all.
Actually, i am one of the people that could really rock a p2w system, the thing is these games are my escape. I don't want to log and see a stripclub DJ type add, "quick its double cash tuesday, can't afford it, eff it fianance it"..................................More to the point for me I want the game, after the initial purchase or a sub fee that everyone pays, to be independant of the real world and the includes real world money. It matters because I don't want to invest time in a game that I like only to have it be rendered unenjoyable by p2w. I hope I explained my position to your satisfaction. [Mod Edit]
Explain how you will ever "know" what a game company is going to do a year down the road?
Since you can NEVER know this, tell us Gator boy, why do you keep playing MMOs?
Yeah, except I wasn't trying to convince you one way or the other, that's the problem with generation occupy, you guys think you're special snow flakes and that what you do matters to the rest of us.....................I don't care what you do, i just posted what I posted because the fan boi crusade on behalf of this game is overwhelming, and ya know what, they're on to something...................but a korean style p2w game isn't revolutionary or original and all their good works are dung piles if that's what it is. I am not even certain that's what its going to become, but cash shops invariably aren't good.
Cash shops in most cases lead to p2w, how do you know that this game will be the exception to the rule? Betting on somethign to be the "exception to the rule" is the sort of bet Vegas and bookies would love.
For someone claiming not to be convincing people of his opinion, you sure are a prolific poster. Its clear you do not wish to see anybody elses opinions, so whats the point?
Everyone here knows the risk, if Anet screws this up, we will go somewhere else, its that simple.
But thanks for caring!