1. Your not paying a monthly fee, but you can bet they will have about 20 boxes of mini patches you'll have to buy at 30 bucks a pop, plus the cash shop, and other things you can buy.. believe me they'll get their money out of you.
2. Judging from these forums and every other GW2 forum I've looked at, the community is going to akin more to that of Halo than an MMORPG. Its going to be downright atrocious.
3. PVP is set up to be an esport already. You thought arena's in WoW were bad... just wait. The mysticism behind "battle" is being replaced with standardized gameplay.. you'll feel like your playing a mini game.. not waging war against your enemies.
4. Cash shop will eventually become an issue, they always do.
Let's approach this from worst Case Scenario. This doesn't mean it's going to turn out this way.
1. I do agree that ANet will have to be agressive with content patches and that they will most likely be available as DLC from the cash shop. But $30.00 a pop? That's a bit steep isn't it? What's it cost in LOTRO?
2. I am not sure I understand this question. Are you saying the community wil be atrocious or GW2?
3. I would liken this to IROC racing. Everyone's car is the same, it comes down to the drivers. Will there be a need to distinguish players on the battle field? I guess that is going to depend on how ANet built the game. On a side note, I will say this. My biggest fear with this type of PVP will be class balance. It has been an impossibility with every Theme Park MMO that I have played so far. The use of gear has to some degree blurred the lines between those imbalances, however, when these lines are made clear and sharp, I do fear that even the slightest class imbalances will make a profound impact on PVP.
4. Maybe, it's to early to tell. But you know what? Even if it eventually does. I'll have gotten my $60 out of it so then, it's all free play from there. I'd be more worried about your issue number 1 over this.
There are no healers/tanks! I can’t play my favorite role!
The combat is too hard!
There’s no subscription! It’ll lose money, crash, burn and fail!
Great article over at ZAM discussing the five above mentioned arguements against GW2 and why they may not hold up under closer scrutiny. Definitely worth a read and further discussion.
especially point number 4. combat too hard? i feel only an illustration can help:
edit: found a better illustration of the correct technique on how to successfully master mmo combat.
I've been disappointed with the level of arguments directed at GW2, almost to the point of doing the job myself:
Challenge in PvE apart from dungeons might not be as strong for seasoned mmorpg players - need another game still.
Dynamic Events might not be as sandboxy as some players have been anticipating: Longevity may be shortened.
PvE for x1 character might be a lot shorter than some people are accustomed to, especially with no end-game large group raids to sink time into and only a few dungeons to compensate.
WvWvW might feel inconsequential without enough penalties or rewards on winning and loosing whereas structured pvp might not feel actiony enough.
The community!
Tried for a broad sweep of potential downers but still speculative and narrowly applicable. Not a bad result. ^_^
I imagine you can get it cheaper than that if you tried.. but NCsoft is still selling it for that..
so why would this one be any different?
To respond to a bunch of you at once..
When I originally posted I didn't expect it to turn into a donnybrook about WvW.. that told me all I needed to know about who I'd have to play with if I did decide to purchase this.. Boom Headshot! is what it's going to be.. I can see it now.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
I imagine you can get it cheaper than that if you tried.. but NCsoft is still selling it for that..
so why would this one be any different?
To respond to a bunch of you at once..
When I originally posted I didn't expect it to turn into a donnybrook about WvW.. that told me all I needed to know about who I'd have to play with if I did decide to purchase this.. Boom Headshot! is what it's going to be.. I can see it now.
I imagine you can get it cheaper than that if you tried.. but NCsoft is still selling it for that..
so why would this one be any different?
To respond to a bunch of you at once..
When I originally posted I didn't expect it to turn into a donnybrook about WvW.. that told me all I needed to know about who I'd have to play with if I did decide to purchase this.. Boom Headshot! is what it's going to be.. I can see it now.
Good try! I was referring to the fact that when Guild Wars was relevant (its obviously not anymore) you had to buy those at 29.99 each. I know, because I have them all and bought them all at 29.99 each. You guys all gonna wait til the game is old and lackluster so you can get them all at 30 bucks? I doubt it, seeing as your all drooling at the mouth to pay your 60.00 to play right now!
In all seriousness, I'm really just trying to see how riled up I can get you folks to see if this is how its going to be in game. Everyone is getting way too bent out of shape over this stuff, just play the game if you want to or don't if you don't. No need to defend anything til your blue in the face. I'll probably play, but not on release.. already preordered TERA and I can't afford more than one game at a time.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
I imagine you can get it cheaper than that if you tried.. but NCsoft is still selling it for that..
so why would this one be any different?
To respond to a bunch of you at once..
When I originally posted I didn't expect it to turn into a donnybrook about WvW.. that told me all I needed to know about who I'd have to play with if I did decide to purchase this.. Boom Headshot! is what it's going to be.. I can see it now.
Good try! I was referring to the fact that when Guild Wars was relevant (its obviously not anymore) you had to buy those at 29.99 each. I know, because I have them all and bought them all at 29.99 each. You guys all gonna wait til the game is old and lackluster so you can get them all at 30 bucks? I doubt it, seeing as your all drooling at the mouth to pay your 60.00 to play right now!
In all seriousness, I'm really just trying to see how riled up I can get you folks to see if this is how its going to be in game. Everyone is getting way too bent out of shape over this stuff, just play the game if you want to or don't if you don't. No need to defend anything til your blue in the face. I'll probably play, but not on release.. already preordered TERA and I can't afford more than one game at a time.
So, you're the one that's trying to rile people up but the bad community is going to be other guys?
I imagine you can get it cheaper than that if you tried.. but NCsoft is still selling it for that..
so why would this one be any different?
To respond to a bunch of you at once..
When I originally posted I didn't expect it to turn into a donnybrook about WvW.. that told me all I needed to know about who I'd have to play with if I did decide to purchase this.. Boom Headshot! is what it's going to be.. I can see it now.
Good try! I was referring to the fact that when Guild Wars was relevant (its obviously not anymore) you had to buy those at 29.99 each. I know, because I have them all and bought them all at 29.99 each. You guys all gonna wait til the game is old and lackluster so you can get them all at 30 bucks? I doubt it, seeing as your all drooling at the mouth to pay your 60.00 to play right now!
In all seriousness, I'm really just trying to see how riled up I can get you folks to see if this is how its going to be in game. Everyone is getting way too bent out of shape over this stuff, just play the game if you want to or don't if you don't. No need to defend anything til your blue in the face. I'll probably play, but not on release.. already preordered TERA and I can't afford more than one game at a time.
So, you're the one that's trying to rile people up but the bad community is going to be other guys?
Nice try.
Good luck and have fun in Tera!
OWPVP!
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
I imagine you can get it cheaper than that if you tried.. but NCsoft is still selling it for that..
so why would this one be any different?
To respond to a bunch of you at once..
When I originally posted I didn't expect it to turn into a donnybrook about WvW.. that told me all I needed to know about who I'd have to play with if I did decide to purchase this.. Boom Headshot! is what it's going to be.. I can see it now.
Good try! I was referring to the fact that when Guild Wars was relevant (its obviously not anymore) you had to buy those at 29.99 each. I know, because I have them all and bought them all at 29.99 each. You guys all gonna wait til the game is old and lackluster so you can get them all at 30 bucks? I doubt it, seeing as your all drooling at the mouth to pay your 60.00 to play right now!
In all seriousness, I'm really just trying to see how riled up I can get you folks to see if this is how its going to be in game. Everyone is getting way too bent out of shape over this stuff, just play the game if you want to or don't if you don't. No need to defend anything til your blue in the face. I'll probably play, but not on release.. already preordered TERA and I can't afford more than one game at a time.
So, you're the one that's trying to rile people up but the bad community is going to be other guys?
Nice try.
Good luck and have fun in Tera!
OWPVP!
Ganking lower levels and players with worse gear because I aint got skillz ftw!
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
raystantzFinal Fantasy XI CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,237
I imagine you can get it cheaper than that if you tried.. but NCsoft is still selling it for that..
so why would this one be any different?
To respond to a bunch of you at once..
When I originally posted I didn't expect it to turn into a donnybrook about WvW.. that told me all I needed to know about who I'd have to play with if I did decide to purchase this.. Boom Headshot! is what it's going to be.. I can see it now.
Good try! I was referring to the fact that when Guild Wars was relevant (its obviously not anymore) you had to buy those at 29.99 each. I know, because I have them all and bought them all at 29.99 each. You guys all gonna wait til the game is old and lackluster so you can get them all at 30 bucks? I doubt it, seeing as your all drooling at the mouth to pay your 60.00 to play right now!
In all seriousness, I'm really just trying to see how riled up I can get you folks to see if this is how its going to be in game. Everyone is getting way too bent out of shape over this stuff, just play the game if you want to or don't if you don't. No need to defend anything til your blue in the face. I'll probably play, but not on release.. already preordered TERA and I can't afford more than one game at a time.
So, you're the one that's trying to rile people up but the bad community is going to be other guys?
Nice try.
Good luck and have fun in Tera!
OWPVP!
Ganking lower levels and players with worse gear because I aint got skillz ftw!
This game isn't about gear. I thought it was about skill?
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
I feel sorry for people who think subscriptions do anything but put money in the publisher's pockets.
Box sales repays the publishers investment. Paying subscriptions you are just throwing money away.
No your paying for server upkeep, updates, exp packs you name it without money coming in you dont have any of those..
GW2 has a cash shop and yes its opional but believe me they will make enough money from the cash shop to keep the game running and probally more than they would with a monthly sub..
They just use a different method to bring in the money...
I imagine you can get it cheaper than that if you tried.. but NCsoft is still selling it for that..
so why would this one be any different?
To respond to a bunch of you at once..
When I originally posted I didn't expect it to turn into a donnybrook about WvW.. that told me all I needed to know about who I'd have to play with if I did decide to purchase this.. Boom Headshot! is what it's going to be.. I can see it now.
Good try! I was referring to the fact that when Guild Wars was relevant (its obviously not anymore) you had to buy those at 29.99 each. I know, because I have them all and bought them all at 29.99 each. You guys all gonna wait til the game is old and lackluster so you can get them all at 30 bucks? I doubt it, seeing as your all drooling at the mouth to pay your 60.00 to play right now!
In all seriousness, I'm really just trying to see how riled up I can get you folks to see if this is how its going to be in game. Everyone is getting way too bent out of shape over this stuff, just play the game if you want to or don't if you don't. No need to defend anything til your blue in the face. I'll probably play, but not on release.. already preordered TERA and I can't afford more than one game at a time.
So, you're the one that's trying to rile people up but the bad community is going to be other guys?
Nice try.
Good luck and have fun in Tera!
OWPVP!
Ganking lower levels and players with worse gear because I aint got skillz ftw!
This game isn't about gear. I thought it was about skill?
Slowpoke >.<
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
1) CHAOS, doesn't feel like a MMORPG. (There's just too much of this in every aspect of the game)
2) No endgame. (gear/character progression)
3) Cash Shop ruining the balance for PvE and WvWvW
4) No feel of progression (You are constantly sidekicked and you've unlocked all skills in few hours of gameplay, only traits + getting elite skill open will give you some insight)
5) All classes feel very similar with a twist.
Bonus) Very limited single-player experience, playing off-hours is really bad. (most of the good events don't scale below 3-5).
Conclusion for me is that I'll be playing D3/Tera/TSW over this and if I for some reason get extremely bored (which is unlikely) I'll get GW2 from the bargain bin.
1.
Wierdly enough that is the main reason i will be playing GW2, a sense of chaos while fighting.
Fighting is not supposed to be systemic, it's supposed to be about adapting.
The combat system is the most alluring thing for me in GW2, the fact that everyone must adapt, be on their toes and react will make for a much more involving RPG for me.
I'm sick of being able to read emails and see videos and at the same still beat whatever pve content i'm faced with.
2.
Well, my particular endgame will be WvW and structured pvp.
But responding to your argument, i'm totally and utterly sick of vertical progression gaming, having your character reach goals is nice, having your characters after an infinite and mundane number of goals is just poor game design.
Glad some designers are looking at horizontal progression and not vertical.
3.
No idea if it will affect any of what you said, but i would rather have no cash shop too.
4.
Your character keeps getting stronger and learning other things during the gameplay, this i can guarantee you.
5.
This is just not true.
Bonus.
Also not true, read a bit more in the game please.
On short, you're too attached to the carrot, progression gaming isn't the only kind of gaming, but i'm glad you recognize that and are looking for the many many many games that offer vertical progression.
You are going to debate on my opinions?
I have played the game and these are _my_ reasons why _I_ won't be buying the game Oo
If I wanted to play a game that involves skillful controlling of your character I'd play Dota or some FPS game. MMORPGs are different for _me_ and tbh you are giving way too much credit for GW2 combat :>
I have played the game and these are _my_ reasons why _I_ won't be buying the game Oo
If I wanted to play a game that involves skillful controlling of your character I'd play Dota or some FPS game. MMORPGs are different for _me_ and tbh you are giving way too much credit for GW2 combat :>
Just found funny that the reasons you described are the reasons why i will be playing.
I have played the game and these are _my_ reasons why _I_ won't be buying the game Oo
If I wanted to play a game that involves skillful controlling of your character I'd play Dota or some FPS game. MMORPGs are different for _me_ and tbh you are giving way too much credit for GW2 combat :>
No he isn't. Once you stop trying to play it like it's WoW or something suddenly the combat comes alive and feels fully engaging. You're watching your enemies for tells about what's to come and reacting accordingly. You're constantly moving, positioning, watching not only your foe but what's around you as well... other mobs, landscape you can use for an advantage (trees to duck behind for example). You're swapping weapons on the fly to maximize your effectiveness or to adapt to a changing situation. Nah... you're not giving GW2 combat enough credit. It's only chaos when you don't know what you're doing. There's sense and order to be found in the chaos, you only need to look for it.
Originally posted by fiontar The Top 5 Arguments Against Guild Wars 2 [*] I dont like PvP! [*] Theres no raiding/PvE endgame! [*] There are no healers/tanks! I cant play my favorite role! The combat is too hard! Theres no subscription! Itll lose money, crash, burn and fail! Great article over at ZAM discussing the five above mentioned arguements against GW2 and why they may not hold up under closer scrutiny. Definitely worth a read and further discussion.
6. its just the same stuff we always had just presented in a different way.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I feel sorry for people who think subscriptions do anything but put money in the publisher's pockets.
Box sales repays the publishers investment. Paying subscriptions you are just throwing money away.
So what does a cash shop like the one GW2 is implementing do?
Exactly what it's intended to do... allow people the option to put money in Anet's pockets by purchasing things they may want in the game but don't actually need.
Subscriptions - required. Cash shop - optional.
Whether or not you pay more is your choice, not theirs.
I feel sorry for people who think subscriptions do anything but put money in the publisher's pockets.
Box sales repays the publishers investment. Paying subscriptions you are just throwing money away.
So what does a cash shop like the one GW2 is implementing do?
Exactly what it's intended to do... allow people the option to put money in Anet's pockets by purchasing things they may want in the game but don't actually need.
Subscriptions - required. Cash shop - optional.
Whether or not you pay more is your choice, not theirs.
So you are admitting the cash shop is not necessary to maintain the game, and the cash shop just exists because ArenaNET is greedy and wants more money, and anyone who buys something from the cash shop is just lining the investers' pockets?
I feel sorry for people who think subscriptions do anything but put money in the publisher's pockets.
Box sales repays the publishers investment. Paying subscriptions you are just throwing money away.
So what does a cash shop like the one GW2 is implementing do?
Exactly what it's intended to do... allow people the option to put money in Anet's pockets by purchasing things they may want in the game but don't actually need.
Subscriptions - required. Cash shop - optional.
Whether or not you pay more is your choice, not theirs.
So you are admitting the cash shop is not necessary to maintain the game, and the cash shop just exists because ArenaNET is greedy and wants more money, and anyone who buys something from the cash shop is just lining the investers' pockets?
Where'd I say greedy? They're allowing optional things, like costumes, bag slots, character slots, etc. The extra money goes into the game and the future growth (above box sales) as well as the company. Greedy is requiring you to buy the game and then requiring you to pay extra just to play it.
Comments
Let's approach this from worst Case Scenario. This doesn't mean it's going to turn out this way.
1. I do agree that ANet will have to be agressive with content patches and that they will most likely be available as DLC from the cash shop. But $30.00 a pop? That's a bit steep isn't it? What's it cost in LOTRO?
2. I am not sure I understand this question. Are you saying the community wil be atrocious or GW2?
3. I would liken this to IROC racing. Everyone's car is the same, it comes down to the drivers. Will there be a need to distinguish players on the battle field? I guess that is going to depend on how ANet built the game. On a side note, I will say this. My biggest fear with this type of PVP will be class balance. It has been an impossibility with every Theme Park MMO that I have played so far. The use of gear has to some degree blurred the lines between those imbalances, however, when these lines are made clear and sharp, I do fear that even the slightest class imbalances will make a profound impact on PVP.
4. Maybe, it's to early to tell. But you know what? Even if it eventually does. I'll have gotten my $60 out of it so then, it's all free play from there. I'd be more worried about your issue number 1 over this.
especially point number 4. combat too hard? i feel only an illustration can help:
edit: found a better illustration of the correct technique on how to successfully master mmo combat.
Those hands look pretty hot. Wonder what they are attached to.
I've been disappointed with the level of arguments directed at GW2, almost to the point of doing the job myself:
Challenge in PvE apart from dungeons might not be as strong for seasoned mmorpg players - need another game still.
Dynamic Events might not be as sandboxy as some players have been anticipating: Longevity may be shortened.
PvE for x1 character might be a lot shorter than some people are accustomed to, especially with no end-game large group raids to sink time into and only a few dungeons to compensate.
WvWvW might feel inconsequential without enough penalties or rewards on winning and loosing whereas structured pvp might not feel actiony enough.
The community!
Tried for a broad sweep of potential downers but still speculative and narrowly applicable. Not a bad result. ^_^
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Do your research people...
here, I will do it for you...
https://secure.ncsoft.com/cgi-bin/Store.pl?dnv=5805931619&action=viewItem&item_id=13
Guild Wars factions.. still 29.99 a pop..
I imagine you can get it cheaper than that if you tried.. but NCsoft is still selling it for that..
so why would this one be any different?
To respond to a bunch of you at once..
When I originally posted I didn't expect it to turn into a donnybrook about WvW.. that told me all I needed to know about who I'd have to play with if I did decide to purchase this.. Boom Headshot! is what it's going to be.. I can see it now.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
Cool.
Then you can stop trying to enlighten people with your amazing intelect and just go play whatever game you enjoy.
Do your research:
https://secure.ncsoft.com/cgi-bin/Store.pl?dnv=9550224057&action=viewItem&item_id=109
Good try! I was referring to the fact that when Guild Wars was relevant (its obviously not anymore) you had to buy those at 29.99 each. I know, because I have them all and bought them all at 29.99 each. You guys all gonna wait til the game is old and lackluster so you can get them all at 30 bucks? I doubt it, seeing as your all drooling at the mouth to pay your 60.00 to play right now!
In all seriousness, I'm really just trying to see how riled up I can get you folks to see if this is how its going to be in game. Everyone is getting way too bent out of shape over this stuff, just play the game if you want to or don't if you don't. No need to defend anything til your blue in the face. I'll probably play, but not on release.. already preordered TERA and I can't afford more than one game at a time.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
So, you're the one that's trying to rile people up but the bad community is going to be other guys?
Nice try.
Good luck and have fun in Tera!
I feel sorry for people who think subscriptions do anything but put money in the publisher's pockets.
Box sales repays the publishers investment. Paying subscriptions you are just throwing money away.
OWPVP!
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
Ganking lower levels and players with worse gear because I aint got skillz ftw!
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
This game isn't about gear. I thought it was about skill?
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
No your paying for server upkeep, updates, exp packs you name it without money coming in you dont have any of those..
GW2 has a cash shop and yes its opional but believe me they will make enough money from the cash shop to keep the game running and probally more than they would with a monthly sub..
They just use a different method to bring in the money...
Slowpoke >.<
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
Here are my concerns:
Another Fantasy RPG in an oversaturated fantasy RPG market
Very Anime similar visual style (many will disagree, but can't be denied for humans and asura)
"Floating" running animations (some races/models look weightless when running)
No opposing factions to fuel PVP rivalry
Unappealing armor sets in structured PVP (all classes wearing blue/red robes. Hopefully this will change in live)
You are going to debate on my opinions?
I have played the game and these are _my_ reasons why _I_ won't be buying the game Oo
If I wanted to play a game that involves skillful controlling of your character I'd play Dota or some FPS game. MMORPGs are different for _me_ and tbh you are giving way too much credit for GW2 combat :>
Just found funny that the reasons you described are the reasons why i will be playing.
No he isn't. Once you stop trying to play it like it's WoW or something suddenly the combat comes alive and feels fully engaging. You're watching your enemies for tells about what's to come and reacting accordingly. You're constantly moving, positioning, watching not only your foe but what's around you as well... other mobs, landscape you can use for an advantage (trees to duck behind for example). You're swapping weapons on the fly to maximize your effectiveness or to adapt to a changing situation. Nah... you're not giving GW2 combat enough credit. It's only chaos when you don't know what you're doing. There's sense and order to be found in the chaos, you only need to look for it.
Oderint, dum metuant.
6. its just the same stuff we always had just presented in a different way.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Eh? Where was it decided that these were the top 5 arguments against GW2? o.O
So what does a cash shop like the one GW2 is implementing do?
Exactly what it's intended to do... allow people the option to put money in Anet's pockets by purchasing things they may want in the game but don't actually need.
Subscriptions - required. Cash shop - optional.
Whether or not you pay more is your choice, not theirs.
Oderint, dum metuant.
So you are admitting the cash shop is not necessary to maintain the game, and the cash shop just exists because ArenaNET is greedy and wants more money, and anyone who buys something from the cash shop is just lining the investers' pockets?
Where'd I say greedy? They're allowing optional things, like costumes, bag slots, character slots, etc. The extra money goes into the game and the future growth (above box sales) as well as the company. Greedy is requiring you to buy the game and then requiring you to pay extra just to play it.
Oderint, dum metuant.