You don't have to respect it, but if you want a good discussion of PvP MMOs then you need to include EVE, UO, and WOW. As each is representative of very different design philosophies. Excluding one just becuase you don't like it sets you up for a 'preaching to the choir' position.
Yeah I admit, EVE could be a good game. I know technically its a MMORPG but Im so used to the feel of a game with a "person" and not a "spaceship". Im used to the abilitys that are present in most mmo's as well- ie aoe, dot, proc, stun, mez, fear, dd, nuke, slow, snare, root, kite hehe did I miss any? I have a hard time thinking EVE as PVP-at least the pvp I know and love.
As far as wow being in the top pvp spots.....eh thats debateable. For starters Id bet money that more than half of the wow community are A-kiddies and or B-wow was there first mmo. Ask a group of people that have only played one mmo w/pvp "whats your favorite pvp based mmo" and what do you think theyll say=WoW.
I believe AC1 has the best PvP. Your character actually feels like an extension of your own body. It actually takes skill and good movement/sliding/dodging to stay alive. It's not just a *point* *click* *sit back and watch* game.
Lineage 2 no doubt. I played 4 of the games , and none is as good as this.
Combats Points and PvP
Combat Points (CP) offer a new dynamic to PvP situations by adding an extra layer of protection when attacked by another player. CP acts as a buffer that must be depleted before damage will affect the player's hit points.
If a player is damaged by another player (including servitors and pets of a player), CP is consumed first with no effect on Hit Points (HP). If the CP is not enough to consume all the damage, HP begins to be consumed.
Like HP, CP is also gradually recovered as time passes. The CP total varies by class and level, recovers over time, and acts as a buffer that must be depleted before damage will affect the player's hit points.
About Player vs. Player Combat
To begin attacking another player, hold the Ctrl key and attack or use a skill. Some areas, such as villages, are "safe zones" where PvP combat is restricted.
PvP gameplay is based on a color-coded system. The name of any character who attacks another player turns purple (aggressive), and this also applies to anyone who attacks an aggressive player. Players do not receive penalties for attacking and defeating aggressive characters. However, when attacking and killing characters that are neutral (white colored names), the player's Karma points increase and the player becomes a chaotic character.
Chaotic character names turn red, and the guards of any village will attack a chaotic character whenever they come in contact with one. Chaotic characters cannot use shop services, and have a high chance of dropping items upon death. However, a chaotic character with a PK count of five or less will not drop items upon death.
The table below shows the color-coded system in action.
To reduce Karma back to 0, the player must hunt monsters. There is also a quest available that can reduce the number of Player Kills a player has earned. Speak to the Black Judges to begin the Repent Your Sins quest.
I find it very fair and square. I fu don t wanna fight don t he back, if the sucker will kill u, he ll turn red, so quickley tell everybody that xxx is red at location yyy, and thrust more hundreds of players will be heading straight to him to killhim, because most sureley part of he `s gear will drop, unlike in ur cause, beeing white, having not kill anybody, nothing will drop from you. If u keel a much lower level character the hogher karma u gain. The more karma u get, the more time u `ll spend hiding, finding hidden places where nowhere can see you and kill monsters to reduce karma. U`ll get the feeling of beeing persecuted, etc.. Bad karma right? PERFECT
If u just wanna pvp u can go to arena, and gain no karma. However if u wanna pvp outside of Arena, make sure that the dude u hitt will hit u back, and thus he ll become Purple. Once he turns purple and he snot white anymore, PVP BEGINS, no karma gain, just xp loss for the loser. PVP rules, it s a reason why u want a higher leveld character in the game, to feel the power of ur character. It s a kul feeling passing nearby lower level characters ( u can see their level by the type of armor they wear.. d grade is for level 20-40, c grade 40-52, b grade 52-61, etc), u can play cat and mouse with them, just don t kill em. I never kill i lower level d character, i just show them how powerfulli am if they hit me. If it s much higher then me, i don t hit back. ( u can know if somenone is much hgher level then u by the damage he mackes to u, or by the gear he wears). So, u must be agile, quick thinking, have a good pvp strategy..knowing when to stun ur enemy or when to use certain skill makes all the difference.
Originally posted by logangregor For starters- I listed EQ as a choice because there are pvp servers and Ive heard a few people mention how much they enjoyed the pvp of eq. Mainly I listed it not because I think it would even get close to winning but so that someone doesnt say "omg, you didnt list my favorite". See what I mean?
I played shadowbane and daoc for a long time. Shadowbane was actually my first mmo and daoc was my third. I loved the fact that it was FFA. Some people might think that FFA would lead to alot of ganking. For the most part it didnt. Personally I think DAOC's pvp stomped shadowbanes though. To me daoc's pvp was greatly group oriented. Every class had there roll. For example. A typical group would have there healer(obvious class description) a sorcerer(dmg + cc ability) wizard(pure damage) scout (stealthed archer-could see other stealthers, especially rogues) your tank warrior types and your rogue types (invisible/great damage) If my group ran across another group, I being the sorcerer would Mez the whole group(aoe stun of sorts) and then pick of called targets. Usually the wizards would call targets and other classes would assist. Rogues would take out key casters and scouts would deal with revealing other stealthers. First off-- compared to shadowbane, the pvp was more complicated. Shadowbane didnt have nearly as much CC in the game. Thieves in shadowbane (rogues) did weak damage and werent a big threat in pvp.
I .
What you just listed is in shadowbane.. whatever server you played on must of bin small. and battles in sb, well use to be 200 vs 200. id rather play sb over daoc. shame sb is gone.
Guild wars pvp is bleh-- for starters it doesnt last long enough. The battleground where you fight in isnt large enough because its a arena and not a battlefield. The range on ranged charachters isnt far enough. The crowd control spells are weak. Out of the 30 people I know that played guildwars, you know how many are still playing it?-- 2. That should say something right there.
I cant wait for some of these games that are in development to come out--good stuff on the horizon.
What you just listed is in shadowbane.. whatever server you played on must of bin small. and battles in sb, well use to be 200 vs 200. id rather play sb over daoc. shame sb is gone.
What did I say that implied the shadowbane servers I played on were small? I played shadowbane at its peak and recently. At its peak, carnage had a server population of maybe 800. World of Warcraft servers that Ive played on had a server population of 4000. So yeah, I guess your right, but then all shadowbane server populations were small.
200v200- I assume your referring to sieges? Thats funny cause sieges are the laggiest part of the game. I had a friend, 4000 dollar computer, T1 line and he still got bad lag. From what I can tell theyve fixed the lag problem but too little too late.
I like shadowbane for the interesting charachter class combonations but I like daoc for the pvp. No game had group pvp like that game did--NO GAME.
Originally posted by Anofalye Or like listing Canada/USA in a soccer list...I mean...come on, I am pretty sure the local team of Paris, Marseilles or London alone would own the best of the best NA team, easily.
Ummm The USA is ranked number 6 in soccer right now.. Ahead of France and England. Try again Waldo!
Originally posted by Anofalye You list EQ in this?
This is kinda like asking, which country has the best hockey team, and then you go listing France in the 10 choices...LOL. I am not even thinking team France would beat our Junior Canucks all-champions team. Think Crosby would own those Frenchs a big time!
Or like listing Canada/USA in a soccer list...I mean...come on, I am pretty sure the local team of Paris, Marseilles or London alone would own the best of the best NA team, easily.
You said something about him listing EQ when WoW is in the list, LoL. Really WoW in a best PvP polll, hehe. I can see from the votes which match SB that a few carebears are here.
HONESTLY I can't vote because i haven't played any of those games but from what people tell me Shadowbane would most likely be the best choice because it's made for PVP so yeah that's just my opinion.
And the Angel rolled a couple of sevens and said "Woot Woot"
I'd say WoW because of the massive areas you can do pvp. Go climb a boulder and watch a player getting finish off a beast with the skin of his teeth then ambush him! Hehe... not only that fighting underwater HELLO!?!
Professor Hubert Farnsworth - That question is less stupid but, you asked it in a profoundly stupid way.
Yeah wow was the only game where you can attack someone while there fighting a mob.
Its most certainly the only game where you can fight someone underwater.
Oh and lets not forget, wow is the only game with massive areas to pvp in.
/sarcasm off
Seriously there are a million and one games where you can fight someone underwater.
There are a million and one games where you can gank someone after they killed or are in the middle of killing a mob.
And as far as wow having a massive area to pvp in....eh yeah. How many mmos you played boy? Shadowbane had a huge HUGE area to pvp in, so did daoc, so did a million other mmos. WoWs pvp outside of battlegrounds is ok, but the battlegrounds, in now way is that a large area.
You wow fanboyz make me sick.
WoW Fanboy='"omg WoW is the bestest mmo everz" --- Me="aye wow fanboy, how many other mmos you played?"
WoW Fanboy"uh uh uh, warcraft 3" Me="eh yeah, thought so."
Originally posted by logangregor I played wow for quite some time. In wow everyone does damage, everyone is Crowd Control and for that reason damage classes dont rely on other classes to use there CC ability. In daoc archers needed my class to aoe stun so they could pick off targets before they ran away. I was the class tha tmade other classes stand still. It was alot of fun. Also another group element that isnt there in WoW is Rogues being able to see other rogues. DAOC was great about having one class have there anticlass. In daoc a rogue on my side could protect me from another rogue trying to gank me because they could see other stealthers while I could not Even a archer type could see other stealthers but that element isnt present at all in WoW. Not once playing wow have I heard people say "stick up" --a common term in daoc to start following the group. Out in battlegrounds, its so small there is no reason for a group to go back and pick someone up. No one runs together as a group. There are also no good run buffs (hunters has penalties) and the ranged classes in wow are barely ranged. In DAOC if I as a archer class started shooting a tank at max range, the tank would have a hell of a time trying to get to me. In wow the warriors just charge, and sorry but thats just lame. Just my 2 cents-- I like wow for the time being but there pvp was definitely flawed in alot of ways.
Logan, i think you havent really played wow that long then.. about WoW rogues, there are many ways to see them when they are stealthed.. eg. hunter's flare shot, human's perception, and rogue's skill called Master of Deception that let them to see stealther better..
about buffing time. i gotta say there isnt a dedicated class to do that... however, there are times that the druid, priest, pally, shaman buff the whole grp (the stat buff was distributed among the support class)
about hunter's ranged... i gotta WoW handle kiting pretty good compare to other MMORPG.. i was playing LineageII Silver Ranger until lv.56, and trust me.. i can kite someone and kill them without being hit.. and its not a fun PvP .. if one class can kill you but you dont have the chance to land one hit on them.. WoW handle this problem pretty good i thnk.. now, if you are playing your Hunter right in WoW (skilled player) you still can kite them..
about stun classes, in WoW its rogue's job to do that.. there are also some other class in WoW that can stop enemy from retreating.. the reason this skill is distributed is to avoid the singularity of classes' roles when i say that.. it doenst mean everyone can stun/stop the enemy.. but there are speacialized class to do that efficiently and there are other class can do that too but not as efficient as the designated class.
i hope you know what im getting at logan, sorry for my english.. thanks for reading~
Logan, i think you havent really played wow that long then.. about WoW rogues, there are many ways to see them when they are stealthed.. eg. hunter's flare shot, human's perception, and rogue's skill called Master of Deception that let them to see stealther better..
about buffing time. i gotta say there isnt a dedicated class to do that... however, there are times that the druid, priest, pally, shaman buff the whole grp (the stat buff was distributed among the support class)
about hunter's ranged... i gotta WoW handle kiting pretty good compare to other MMORPG.. i was playing LineageII Silver Ranger until lv.56, and trust me.. i can kite someone and kill them without being hit.. and its not a fun PvP .. if one class can kill you but you dont have the chance to land one hit on them.. WoW handle this problem pretty good i thnk.. now, if you are playing your Hunter right in WoW (skilled player) you still can kite them..
about stun classes, in WoW its rogue's job to do that.. there are also some other class in WoW that can stop enemy from retreating.. the reason this skill is distributed is to avoid the singularity of classes' roles when i say that.. it doenst mean everyone can stun/stop the enemy.. but there are speacialized class to do that efficiently and there are other class can do that too but not as efficient as the designated class.
i hope you know what im getting at logan, sorry for my english.. thanks for reading~
Your english is fine.
Ive played wow since it was released off an on. I have 3 toons in there 40s and thats enough.
The type of pvp that I enjoy, that is MASSIVE, group oriented pvp is not there. People dont run as groups in battlegrounds. They run in twos or as individuals and its basically a zerg. No matter what youd like to say there is no anti class to rogues in pvp. Like i said, in daoc stealthed classes could see eachother--it made for interesting pvp.
I still hold to the beleif that everyone is everything in wow. They all do damage and they all Crowd Control. At 60 easily the most overpowered class is the warrior and he even gets a aoe fear...what kind of crap is that? The warrior does better sustained damage than a mage and higher burst damage than a rogue--FACT.
---glad your enjoying it. Id be interested to know what other mmo's youve played. Just about anyone Ive ever talked to said wow was there first.
"omg, you didnt list my favorite". See what I mean? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- .....................................omg you didnt list my favoarite!
1. Eve online - The game forces PVP, just the most amazing and the most unforgiving!
2. WOW - The game has fun PVP anywhere! Everything you do is for PVP, the classes are evry well balanced too! Nothing is overpowered and every class can beat every class!
I don't see why people bash it because it has to be the best fantasy PVP!
3. DAOC - Great PVP but IMO WOW just gets the edge.
Comments
Yeah I admit, EVE could be a good game. I know technically its a MMORPG but Im so used to the feel of a game with a "person" and not a "spaceship". Im used to the abilitys that are present in most mmo's as well- ie aoe, dot, proc, stun, mez, fear, dd, nuke, slow, snare, root, kite hehe did I miss any? I have a hard time thinking EVE as PVP-at least the pvp I know and love.
As far as wow being in the top pvp spots.....eh thats debateable. For starters Id bet money that more than half of the wow community are A-kiddies and or B-wow was there first mmo. Ask a group of people that have only played one mmo w/pvp "whats your favorite pvp based mmo" and what do you think theyll say=WoW.
EVE UO and DAOC(damnit not wow)
Lineage 2 no doubt. I played 4 of the games , and none is as good as this.
Combats Points and PvP
Combat Points (CP) offer a new dynamic to PvP situations by adding an extra layer of protection when attacked by another player. CP acts as a buffer that must be depleted before damage will affect the player's hit points.
If a player is damaged by another player (including servitors and pets of a player), CP is consumed first with no effect on Hit Points (HP). If the CP is not enough to consume all the damage, HP begins to be consumed.
Like HP, CP is also gradually recovered as time passes. The CP total varies by class and level, recovers over time, and acts as a buffer that must be depleted before damage will affect the player's hit points.
About Player vs. Player Combat
To begin attacking another player, hold the Ctrl key and attack or use a skill. Some areas, such as villages, are "safe zones" where PvP combat is restricted.
PvP gameplay is based on a color-coded system. The name of any character who attacks another player turns purple (aggressive), and this also applies to anyone who attacks an aggressive player. Players do not receive penalties for attacking and defeating aggressive characters. However, when attacking and killing characters that are neutral (white colored names), the player's Karma points increase and the player becomes a chaotic character.
Chaotic character names turn red, and the guards of any village will attack a chaotic character whenever they come in contact with one. Chaotic characters cannot use shop services, and have a high chance of dropping items upon death. However, a chaotic character with a PK count of five or less will not drop items upon death.
The table below shows the color-coded system in action.
To reduce Karma back to 0, the player must hunt monsters. There is also a quest available that can reduce the number of Player Kills a player has earned. Speak to the Black Judges to begin the Repent Your Sins quest.
I find it very fair and square. I fu don t wanna fight don t he back, if the sucker will kill u, he ll turn red, so quickley tell everybody that xxx is red at location yyy, and thrust more hundreds of players will be heading straight to him to killhim, because most sureley part of he `s gear will drop, unlike in ur cause, beeing white, having not kill anybody, nothing will drop from you.
If u keel a much lower level character the hogher karma u gain. The more karma u get, the more time u `ll spend hiding, finding hidden places where nowhere can see you and kill monsters to reduce karma. U`ll get the feeling of beeing persecuted, etc.. Bad karma right? PERFECT
If u just wanna pvp u can go to arena, and gain no karma.
However if u wanna pvp outside of Arena, make sure that the dude u hitt will hit u back, and thus he ll become Purple. Once he turns purple and he snot white anymore, PVP BEGINS, no karma gain, just xp loss for the loser. PVP rules, it s a reason why u want a higher leveld character in the game, to feel the power of ur character. It s a kul feeling passing nearby lower level characters ( u can see their level by the type of armor they wear.. d grade is for level 20-40, c grade 40-52, b grade 52-61, etc), u can play cat and mouse with them, just don t kill em. I never kill i lower level d character, i just show them how powerfulli am if they hit me. If it s much higher then me, i don t hit back. ( u can know if somenone is much hgher level then u by the damage he mackes to u, or by the gear he wears).
So, u must be agile, quick thinking, have a good pvp strategy..knowing when to stun ur enemy or when to use certain skill makes all the difference.
http://www.thunderclann.home.ro/ThunderClanLineage2.jpg
In my field of paper flowers, candy clouds of lullaby. I lay inside myself for hours, and watch my purple sky fly over me. ~*Evanescence*~
What you just listed is in shadowbane.. whatever server you played on must of bin small. and battles in sb, well use to be 200 vs 200. id rather play sb over daoc. shame sb is gone.
Guild Wars 100%
from the list you gave...i think its definitely Guild Wars. Most of the guys here will agree to that.
Cheers!
Guild wars pvp is bleh-- for starters it doesnt last long enough. The battleground where you fight in isnt large enough because its a arena and not a battlefield. The range on ranged charachters isnt far enough. The crowd control spells are weak. Out of the 30 people I know that played guildwars, you know how many are still playing it?-- 2. That should say something right there.
I cant wait for some of these games that are in development to come out--good stuff on the horizon.
PotCO player
Ex-WoW player, hackers screwed it up and blizzard is too lazy to give a shit
Guild wars gave my dad cancer, broke my sisters heart, beat up my little brother and got me fired.
Stay away from it or you will burn
PotCO player
Ex-WoW player, hackers screwed it up and blizzard is too lazy to give a shit
Ummm The USA is ranked number 6 in soccer right now.. Ahead of France and England.
Try again Waldo!
Fifa Listings Jul 2005
You said something about him listing EQ when WoW is in the list, LoL. Really WoW in a best PvP polll, hehe. I can see from the votes which match SB that a few carebears are here.
HONESTLY I can't vote because i haven't played any of those games but from what people tell me Shadowbane would most likely be the best choice because it's made for PVP so yeah that's just my opinion.
And the Angel rolled a couple of sevens and said "Woot Woot"
Professor Hubert Farnsworth - That question is less stupid but, you asked it in a profoundly stupid way.
Yeah wow was the only game where you can attack someone while there fighting a mob.
Its most certainly the only game where you can fight someone underwater.
Oh and lets not forget, wow is the only game with massive areas to pvp in.
/sarcasm off
Seriously there are a million and one games where you can fight someone underwater.
There are a million and one games where you can gank someone after they killed or are in the middle of killing a mob.
And as far as wow having a massive area to pvp in....eh yeah. How many mmos you played boy? Shadowbane had a huge HUGE area to pvp in, so did daoc, so did a million other mmos. WoWs pvp outside of battlegrounds is ok, but the battlegrounds, in now way is that a large area.
You wow fanboyz make me sick.
WoW Fanboy='"omg WoW is the bestest mmo everz" --- Me="aye wow fanboy, how many other mmos you played?"
WoW Fanboy"uh uh uh, warcraft 3" Me="eh yeah, thought so."
about WoW rogues, there are many ways to see them when they are stealthed..
eg. hunter's flare shot, human's perception, and rogue's skill called Master of Deception that let them to see stealther better..
about buffing time. i gotta say there isnt a dedicated class to do that... however, there are times that the druid, priest, pally, shaman buff the whole grp (the stat buff was distributed among the support class)
about hunter's ranged... i gotta WoW handle kiting pretty good compare to other MMORPG..
i was playing LineageII Silver Ranger until lv.56, and trust me.. i can kite someone and kill them without being hit.. and its not a fun PvP .. if one class can kill you but you dont have the chance to land one hit on them..
WoW handle this problem pretty good i thnk..
now, if you are playing your Hunter right in WoW (skilled player) you still can kite them..
about stun classes, in WoW its rogue's job to do that.. there are also some other class in WoW that can stop enemy from retreating.. the reason this skill is distributed is to avoid the singularity of classes' roles
when i say that.. it doenst mean everyone can stun/stop the enemy.. but there are speacialized class to do that efficiently and there are other class can do that too but not as efficient as the designated class.
i hope you know what im getting at logan, sorry for my english..
thanks for reading~
MyBrute = addicting mini online game!
I think legend of mir 3 has a good pvp system only thing that spoils is it is the auto potting system
about buffing time. i gotta say there isnt a dedicated class to do that... however, there are times that the druid, priest, pally, shaman buff the whole grp (the stat buff was distributed among the support class)
about hunter's ranged... i gotta WoW handle kiting pretty good compare to other MMORPG..
i was playing LineageII Silver Ranger until lv.56, and trust me.. i can kite someone and kill them without being hit.. and its not a fun PvP .. if one class can kill you but you dont have the chance to land one hit on them..
WoW handle this problem pretty good i thnk..
now, if you are playing your Hunter right in WoW (skilled player) you still can kite them..
about stun classes, in WoW its rogue's job to do that.. there are also some other class in WoW that can stop enemy from retreating.. the reason this skill is distributed is to avoid the singularity of classes' roles
when i say that.. it doenst mean everyone can stun/stop the enemy.. but there are speacialized class to do that efficiently and there are other class can do that too but not as efficient as the designated class.
i hope you know what im getting at logan, sorry for my english..
thanks for reading~
Your english is fine.
Ive played wow since it was released off an on. I have 3 toons in there 40s and thats enough.
The type of pvp that I enjoy, that is MASSIVE, group oriented pvp is not there. People dont run as groups in battlegrounds. They run in twos or as individuals and its basically a zerg. No matter what youd like to say there is no anti class to rogues in pvp. Like i said, in daoc stealthed classes could see eachother--it made for interesting pvp.
I still hold to the beleif that everyone is everything in wow. They all do damage and they all Crowd Control. At 60 easily the most overpowered class is the warrior and he even gets a aoe fear...what kind of crap is that? The warrior does better sustained damage than a mage and higher burst damage than a rogue--FACT.
---glad your enjoying it. Id be interested to know what other mmo's youve played. Just about anyone Ive ever talked to said wow was there first.
runescape
I just threw up a little bit, in my mouth.
Dont disgrace this thread. Runescape is a sorry excuse for a mmo.
I read on another thread that you thought no other game had good smiting...what did you mean by that?
What other games have you played besides Runescape? Class and levels please-
Well like i said
1. Eve online - The game forces PVP, just the most amazing and the most unforgiving!
2. WOW - The game has fun PVP anywhere! Everything you do is for PVP, the classes are evry well balanced too! Nothing is overpowered and every class can beat every class!
I don't see why people bash it because it has to be the best fantasy PVP!
3. DAOC - Great PVP but IMO WOW just gets the edge.
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Don't click here...no2