Enrage timers, probably not first in wow, but probably first in being so widespread outside some gimmick scripted quasi-storytelling encounters. Together with bosses resetting it makes for a tricky system if you consider that you are actually expected, gameplaywise, to kill the same boss (or a random rare pack) hundreds if not thousands of times for less than a meaningful chance of loot, as opposed to wow, where the boss drops always something good (but not always useful to anyone).
It is set up that way obviously so that people cannot just die, respawn and zerg the boss (hence reseting). Otherwise, people will complain about it being "too easy".
As for gear system, in itself there are some minor quirks (like magic effects tied to "base" item level, no more basic gloves with +30 resist, just 1-5 for you; or wizards with 2handed hammers...), some people have problems with legendaries, but the main problem lies with what a particular piece is expected to have to be "good", as in just enabling the player to have a chance to kill something, its tied to the difficulty (ofcourse) and the stat dispersion, gloves in d2 were not really expected to have huge number of stats on them, mostly with attack speed, resists or lifesteal you were "well on your way", these days you will want to have 2 stats, plus resists and some useful secondary attributes on them, the number of affixes has increased, a rare can have around 100 possible affixes, giving you just a 1:5000 - 1:10000 chance just to consider a rare, if it drops or otherwise, crafting, ah.
Since gear drop so often, i don't see the rare "good" drop as a bad thing. In fact, AH is full of cheap good upgrades (prob until later half of Hell/INFERNO). In fact, the upgrade frequencies in Diablo 3 is way HIGHER than a MMO like WOW which a piece can take a week to get.
I am not disputing the increase of difficulty, i am disputing the way it was achieved, its not like enrage timers and resets are the only things that can deliver difficulty, those are just the tools blizz is familiar with (which was my original point).
I will be very amused if the devs put in some kind of lockout Lockout 37 maybe?
The ah is a separate issue on its own, atm overblown with low items due to many people leveling, but that can change once most of people willing to grind and farm get to inferno, where 20k is not worth the effort selling some drop you got leveling an alt. I think it will level out as in wow, low items will be sold only the perfect ones, for overblown amounts and then just the odd item here and there a optimist put up for 5k. Because the low levels cannot actually aquire anything the highlevels would want (no uniques, no lv33 gloves with perfect resists), outside of twinking. But i hope i am wrong.
am not disputing the increase of difficulty, i am disputing the way it was achieved, its not like enrage timers and resets are the only things that can deliver difficulty, those are just the tools blizz is familiar with (which was my original point).
No. But there is nothing wrong with enrage timers and resets. Those work. What is the problem? Plus, they are not the only trick used. There are AOEs, mobs conjuring walls to limit your movement, teleporting mobs, and all sort of other type of mechanics.
The ah is a separate issue on its own, atm overblown with low items due to many people leveling, but that can change once most of people willing to grind and farm get to inferno, where 20k is not worth the effort selling some drop you got leveling an alt. I think it will level out as in wow, low items will be sold only the perfect ones, for overblown amounts and then just the odd item here and there a optimist put up for 5k. Because the low levels cannot actually aquire anything the highlevels would want (no uniques, no lv33 gloves with perfect resists), outside of twinking. But i hope i am wrong.
No one knows how it will turn out in a few weeks. I am actually quite optimisitic. Why?
1) Alts. Each class play so differently that many will level up alts and fill the AH with lower level loot, particularly when they hit a brick wall in Inferno.
2) D3 is NOT a MMO. I don't think all 7M (or whatever number of millions now) players will play this for years. Many will move on and replaced by new players.
3) I probably don't care what happen in 2 years. I prob will not play the game for that long ANYWAY.
am not disputing the increase of difficulty, i am disputing the way it was achieved, its not like enrage timers and resets are the only things that can deliver difficulty, those are just the tools blizz is familiar with (which was my original point).
No. But there is nothing wrong with enrage timers and resets. Those work. What is the problem? Plus, they are not the only trick used. There are AOEs, mobs conjuring walls to limit your movement, teleporting mobs, and all sort of other type of mechanics.
The ah is a separate issue on its own, atm overblown with low items due to many people leveling, but that can change once most of people willing to grind and farm get to inferno, where 20k is not worth the effort selling some drop you got leveling an alt. I think it will level out as in wow, low items will be sold only the perfect ones, for overblown amounts and then just the odd item here and there a optimist put up for 5k. Because the low levels cannot actually aquire anything the highlevels would want (no uniques, no lv33 gloves with perfect resists), outside of twinking. But i hope i am wrong.
No one knows how it will turn out in a few weeks. I am actually quite optimisitic. Why?
1) Alts. Each class play so differently that many will level up alts and fill the AH with lower level loot, particularly when they hit a brick wall in Inferno.
2) D3 is NOT a MMO. I don't think all 7M (or whatever number of millions now) players will play this for years. Many will move on and replaced by new players.
3) I probably don't care what happen in 2 years. I prob will not play the game for that long ANYWAY.
There is nothing wrong with enrage timers and resets, in wow, if the boss/pack/shrubbery always drops something meaningful, that is unfortunately not how the system is set up, and i dont want it to be.
The way those "other mechanics" were executed kinda makes my point stronger, dont you think?
As for ah
1) I am quite concerned with a real desire of many players leveling alts given the type of brick wall they hit, however, as i said, why would they want to sell something for 10-20k (or what do you expect a lv30 to pay for a piece?) if they can kill 10-20 mobs for that on their main or farm magic items on lower difficulties with the nephalim buff? On top that leveling and reaching inferno is surviveable just with a high dps weapon (shared with every class), as it should be, imo, even in inferno, with focus on the surviveable, not easy, not fast, those are the things the gear is for.
2) the chance of it creating a sufficiently live ah is what we disagree on, me being negative and you positive, isnt it? As for not being a mmo, dunno, i am progressing, i am indirectly cooperating with a massive amount of players via the ah, people hitting gear brickwalls, you get my point
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Banaghran
am not disputing the increase of difficulty, i am disputing the way it was achieved, its not like enrage timers and resets are the only things that can deliver difficulty, those are just the tools blizz is familiar with (which was my original point).
No. But there is nothing wrong with enrage timers and resets. Those work. What is the problem? Plus, they are not the only trick used. There are AOEs, mobs conjuring walls to limit your movement, teleporting mobs, and all sort of other type of mechanics.
The ah is a separate issue on its own, atm overblown with low items due to many people leveling, but that can change once most of people willing to grind and farm get to inferno, where 20k is not worth the effort selling some drop you got leveling an alt. I think it will level out as in wow, low items will be sold only the perfect ones, for overblown amounts and then just the odd item here and there a optimist put up for 5k. Because the low levels cannot actually aquire anything the highlevels would want (no uniques, no lv33 gloves with perfect resists), outside of twinking. But i hope i am wrong.
No one knows how it will turn out in a few weeks. I am actually quite optimisitic. Why?
1) Alts. Each class play so differently that many will level up alts and fill the AH with lower level loot, particularly when they hit a brick wall in Inferno.
2) D3 is NOT a MMO. I don't think all 7M (or whatever number of millions now) players will play this for years. Many will move on and replaced by new players.
3) I probably don't care what happen in 2 years. I prob will not play the game for that long ANYWAY.
There is nothing wrong with enrage timers and resets, in wow, if the boss/pack/shrubbery always drops something meaningful, that is unfortunately not how the system is set up, and i dont want it to be.
The way those "other mechanics" were executed kinda makes my point stronger, dont you think?
As for ah
1) I am quite concerned with a real desire of many players leveling alts given the type of brick wall they hit, however, as i said, why would they want to sell something for 10-20k (or what do you expect a lv30 to pay for a piece?) if they can kill 10-20 mobs for that on their main or farm magic items on lower difficulties with the nephalim buff? On top that leveling and reaching inferno is surviveable just with a high dps weapon (shared with every class), as it should be, imo, even in inferno, with focus on the surviveable, not easy, not fast, those are the things the gear is for.
2) the chance of it creating a sufficiently live ah is what we disagree on, me being negative and you positive, isnt it? As for not being a mmo, dunno, i am progressing, i am indirectly cooperating with a massive amount of players via the ah, people hitting gear brickwalls, you get my point
3) so?
Flame on!
Fights r also much shorter with a lot less set up time. Why the obsession of drropping something meaningful? Wow did not do that. Quite often the boss drop sth you cannot use and cannot sell. Here at least u can sell it. I don't see how u need to repeat 2 min fight a problem.
Plus, bosses r few and not where all the actions r. Good drops r from elite packs & blue groups anyway.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Fights r also much shorter with a lot less set up time. Why the obsession of drropping something meaningful? Wow did not do that. Quite often the boss drop sth you cannot use and cannot sell. Here at least u can sell it. I don't see how u need to repeat 2 min fight a problem. Plus, bosses r few and not where all the actions r. Good drops r from elite packs & blue groups anyway.
I am not obsessed with dropping something meaningful, i am obsessed with them being too annoying to not do it
As for enrage timers, also the blue ones have them (of sorts...), and they also regenerate ouside combat, so even in hell (lashers), if you die at the other side of the map, with a 30 second respawn timer, 7-8 times (nothing unusual), it amounts for quite a long fight.
As a added perk, probably just for fun, they see you in ghost form, so if you are unfortunate to die at a checkpoint, they start casting stuff like frozen right when you appear as a ghost, and not when you "materialize".
As for drops, they might drop many things, but due to what i already mentioned, a surprisingly low amount of it is actually usefull and would sell.
The people who got trophies are min-maxers, silly. Casuals don't care about trophies... or gear, or "content" or "endgame" or "progression". People who care about that are, by definition, not casual. We go fishing and do quests and walk around and crap, and then have to suffer various namecalling where everyone from battle.net forums to mmorpg.com thinks we're either noobs, idiots, kids in basements, or ruiners of games...
Thats what the virtual world advocates have been saying for years. They obviuosly dont want casuals to actually play, just visit and spend.
Make a game catered to the real masses and no one would play we're told. Experts!
Who wants to farm!?!?!? Who wants to build?!?!?!? Who wants to be an individual?!?!?! Who wants to be immersed?!?!?
Fights r also much shorter with a lot less set up time. Why the obsession of drropping something meaningful? Wow did not do that. Quite often the boss drop sth you cannot use and cannot sell. Here at least u can sell it. I don't see how u need to repeat 2 min fight a problem. Plus, bosses r few and not where all the actions r. Good drops r from elite packs & blue groups anyway.
Y r u suddenly writing in l33tspeak, narius? Take that step further and nobody understands your replies or wants to read them for that matter. Please - its annoying.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Fights r also much shorter with a lot less set up time. Why the obsession of drropping something meaningful? Wow did not do that. Quite often the boss drop sth you cannot use and cannot sell. Here at least u can sell it. I don't see how u need to repeat 2 min fight a problem. Plus, bosses r few and not where all the actions r. Good drops r from elite packs & blue groups anyway.
Y r u suddenly writing in l33tspeak, narius? Take that step further and nobody understands your replies or wants to read them for that matter. Please - its annoying.
i was on my ipad waiting in a hospital. Thus, i typed in short hand. Typing is really not that great an experience on an ipad.
Comments
I am not disputing the increase of difficulty, i am disputing the way it was achieved, its not like enrage timers and resets are the only things that can deliver difficulty, those are just the tools blizz is familiar with (which was my original point).
I will be very amused if the devs put in some kind of lockout
Lockout 37 maybe? 
The ah is a separate issue on its own, atm overblown with low items due to many people leveling, but that can change once most of people willing to grind and farm get to inferno, where 20k is not worth the effort selling some drop you got leveling an alt. I think it will level out as in wow, low items will be sold only the perfect ones, for overblown amounts and then just the odd item here and there a optimist put up for 5k. Because the low levels cannot actually aquire anything the highlevels would want (no uniques, no lv33 gloves with perfect resists), outside of twinking. But i hope i am wrong.
Flame on!
There is nothing wrong with enrage timers and resets, in wow, if the boss/pack/shrubbery always drops something meaningful, that is unfortunately not how the system is set up, and i dont want it to be.
The way those "other mechanics" were executed kinda makes my point stronger, dont you think?
As for ah
1) I am quite concerned with a real desire of many players leveling alts given the type of brick wall they hit, however, as i said, why would they want to sell something for 10-20k (or what do you expect a lv30 to pay for a piece?) if they can kill 10-20 mobs for that on their main or farm magic items on lower difficulties with the nephalim buff? On top that leveling and reaching inferno is surviveable just with a high dps weapon (shared with every class), as it should be, imo, even in inferno, with focus on the surviveable, not easy, not fast, those are the things the gear is for.
2) the chance of it creating a sufficiently live ah is what we disagree on, me being negative and you positive, isnt it? As for not being a mmo, dunno, i am progressing, i am indirectly cooperating with a massive amount of players via the ah, people hitting gear brickwalls, you get my point
3) so?
Flame on!
There is nothing wrong with enrage timers and resets, in wow, if the boss/pack/shrubbery always drops something meaningful, that is unfortunately not how the system is set up, and i dont want it to be.
The way those "other mechanics" were executed kinda makes my point stronger, dont you think?
As for ah
1) I am quite concerned with a real desire of many players leveling alts given the type of brick wall they hit, however, as i said, why would they want to sell something for 10-20k (or what do you expect a lv30 to pay for a piece?) if they can kill 10-20 mobs for that on their main or farm magic items on lower difficulties with the nephalim buff? On top that leveling and reaching inferno is surviveable just with a high dps weapon (shared with every class), as it should be, imo, even in inferno, with focus on the surviveable, not easy, not fast, those are the things the gear is for.
2) the chance of it creating a sufficiently live ah is what we disagree on, me being negative and you positive, isnt it? As for not being a mmo, dunno, i am progressing, i am indirectly cooperating with a massive amount of players via the ah, people hitting gear brickwalls, you get my point
3) so?
Flame on!
Fights r also much shorter with a lot less set up time. Why the obsession of drropping something meaningful? Wow did not do that. Quite often the boss drop sth you cannot use and cannot sell. Here at least u can sell it. I don't see how u need to repeat 2 min fight a problem.Plus, bosses r few and not where all the actions r. Good drops r from elite packs & blue groups anyway.
I am not obsessed with dropping something meaningful, i am obsessed with them being too annoying to not do it
As for enrage timers, also the blue ones have them (of sorts...), and they also regenerate ouside combat, so even in hell (lashers), if you die at the other side of the map, with a 30 second respawn timer, 7-8 times (nothing unusual), it amounts for quite a long fight.
As a added perk, probably just for fun, they see you in ghost form, so if you are unfortunate to die at a checkpoint, they start casting stuff like frozen right when you appear as a ghost, and not when you "materialize".
As for drops, they might drop many things, but due to what i already mentioned, a surprisingly low amount of it is actually usefull and would sell.
Flame on!
Thats what the virtual world advocates have been saying for years. They obviuosly dont want casuals to actually play, just visit and spend.
Make a game catered to the real masses and no one would play we're told. Experts!
Who wants to farm!?!?!? Who wants to build?!?!?!? Who wants to be an individual?!?!?! Who wants to be immersed?!?!?
No one even questions it.
Y r u suddenly writing in l33tspeak, narius? Take that step further and nobody understands your replies or wants to read them for that matter. Please - its annoying.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
i was on my ipad waiting in a hospital. Thus, i typed in short hand. Typing is really not that great an experience on an ipad.