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Why solo players play MMO's.
itgrowls
Member Posts: 2,951
Love this article, awesome points. It gives the freedom to do both if you want, and generally even in the lobby games there are more options then in solo only titles which tend to be more static. Especially when it comes to updates with improvements, mmo's tend to put more of those out.
Comments
Nice, pretty much exactly the reason I play mmo games.
i would like to change the question here somthing makes more sense to me at least : why New MMOs are 80% solo?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
very nice,
its the allmighty freedom of choise.
world is alive.
not just programmed tools standing around waiting you to kill them.
and yet same elements as in single player games.
maybe 80% playerbase likes it that way and only minority likes raid and group.
This is exactly the issue, and I'd argue that 80% might actually be a little too low and that the real number would be around 95%, simply because I can count group-oriented MMORPG on my hands.
I don't mind solo players, but an MMORPG's focus should not be on those solo players...because it's an MMORPG. His whole article is plastered with "If-s" and "Maybe-s". If you want to socialize you can, but there's no need to. If you want to group you can, but there's no need to. It's ridiculous, and definitively hasn't changed my mind that if players want to play everything solo, than they should go play Single Player RPGs. However the industry currently catters to those people, as oppose to the old industry of 10 years ago. An MMORPG should be primarily group-oriented but still give the possibility of soloing to some extent (because it's true that we don't have the best schedule in the world for gaming) and not the opposite around, in other words solo-oriented with the possibility of grouping.
What you think people should do is irevelant because you have zero control over them. If they do indeed play MMO the way they want to, and support the dev by shelving out sub fees and box prices, who are you to say the devs should not respond to that market?
Secondly, i dunno about other games, but games like WOW is more and more group focus. Now doing dungeons through LFD is the fastest way to level. Most end game PvE content (dungeons & raids) are group oriented. Heck, even Diablo 3, which is not a MMO, is as much group focus as SP focus.
Surely the trend is lobby based small group content .. but that is STILL group content.
True, but only to an extent. I'm paying a sub-fee as well, as if the money I'm paying the developer is going to pay for content that I don't enjoy, then it's my perrogative (duty, even) to speak with my money by cancelling my subscription. It goes both ways.
I'm a firm believer that MMORPGs should be for primarily group play. Having some solo content is good for those times when nobody seems to be around, but the focus should be on group pursuits.
Interesting.
I am your worst case scenario : a mostly solo player who is 99.9% PvE oriented. So what am I doing in an MMO?
From my point of view, I had no choice. I find very few single player games coming out that have the content and size of large MMOs. From playing all single player games my first MMO devotion was GW. I played GW and all expansions for years. I joined a couple of guilds, but always had the problem that I didn't play at the time they did. Also, since I don't PvP, I joined them a few times for group runs into specific areas but most if my level up I did by myself.
After playing online enough I got used to joining up. I love to help lower players leveling up, and most of the group work I do is to help others achieve some goal or quest. Today I am playing SW:TOR while I wait for GW2. I still do the same, join in for bosses and flashpoints, but 99% of the time play by myself.
Now, as solo player, I do not mind focus on PvP and social play. I support it and try my best to join in when I can. But it is hard to find groups (a known issue in TOR) and even when you do you might get juvenile/unrully players and it becomes quite a hassle sometimes. My best experiences are again helping lower level chars with particular needs.
The only thing that "bothers" me is when the quest progression gets stopped due to a group requirement. That blocks my solo play and in some areas (specially late in the life cycle of a game) it might be impossible to get a group going and thus you can't progress. I hate that and I find it unfair to the solo player. I do believe there are ways to encourage group play without forcing it and making the solo player unwelcome.
I support all games. If somebody came out with a group only or PvP only game, hey, more power to those who like that. What is scary is to find NO options for me because the in thing is social games. That is sad. Note to social players : we solo players don't demand anything, just let me play the game in some areas by myself. You can have your warzones, flashpoints, raids, etc. And if I do get into it a bit and feel welcome, hey, great for all of us.
There's probably a good reason why this topic has an eternal sticky at the top of this forum.
Single player games are lonely.
in the real world, everything I do is solo, and controlling me and only me. Other people control their own bodies and mind (excluding Media brainwashing). even when working together as a group in the real world, I am working solo, and doing my part of the puzzle to be fit together.
in MMO, I want to venture on my own, and not be held back by others, or a lack of others. Just like the real world, and what Ray Charles mother told him. "Dont let others cripple you". that means, in MMO terms, to not allow others to control when and where you get to play at.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I have just as much "rights" ( I don't really like that word given the context but it's easier to understand) as anyone else as I also buy those same boxes and pay subs. When developers change their game to catter to more solo-friendly players, the money I spend monthly (as is everyone else's) goes into the development of those changes. If I don't agree with it, I see no reason why I shouldn't voice my opinion on it.
If you're a solo player and you're only reason for playing an MMORPG is that it's lonely, and never interact with other players, then yes you should definitively go to single player RPGs. I put these players in the same category as those that continue to buy the overhyped games only to realize it's bad and repeat the scenario when the next big overhyped title shows up. To me it's exactly what has been plaguing the gaming industry and prevented developers from being truly innovative and moving forward with their games as it's a lot easier to just shell out yet another overhyped sequel of a tired genre. This will only lead to another crash in the gaming industry like it did in the 80s.
WoW's grouping is a joke. Being a game that heavily focuses on solo, other players now only serves as tools to further enhance your character. This applies to any end-game PvE content of most MMOs curently out, save for the older MMORPGs (FFXI, EQ, etc). As for Diablo 3...it's not group-focused. Yes you can group, but you can complete the game entirely by soloing. In essence, it's just another "If-s" and "Maybe-s" game as I mentionned in my previous post. You can group if you want to, but there's no need to.
No one wants to share loot with some random stranger. I stipulate that this is the #1 reason why people solo MMOs. The other guy will always loot the BOP class specific item that you both want and need, and that he can not use or trade.
So you say you have a wonky schedule? This may be true now a days, you log in at 3AM and the zone is empty. But if it is 3AM and the zone has you and some other player character doing the exact same 5 or 7 quests. You tell me you aren't going to group with them just to bang out those quest in half the time?
Grouping is an XP buff. DPS is 2x, Damage is 0.5x, Quest level is 2x level. If your avatar is a level 10 and level 10 mobs give 100 xp and level 10 quest give 1000 xp. Then a 2 player group at level 10 would be killing level 15+ mobs for 400 xp divided by 2. They would be completing level 15+ quest for 4000 or 5000 xp each all in the same time it took to do level 10 quest solo.
Maybe you gotta deal with them taking a break every 10 minutes to smoke, or the dog has to go out. Or they just can’t wait for the cutscene to end. Or maybe you're in a PUG with me, I “Loot All” and have to go back to town and vendor all that trash, every mission.
Q: Does your game have solo content?
A: Yes, you can grind level 1 bunnies until you reach level 10. Then you can solo the level 1-5 content. You will reach level cap of 50 by grinding the level 25 mobs.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Yet, players come into mmos and don't even say hello. I don't care for group content. What difference does it make doign a raid, rift, dynamic event with people and npc's. None, because players are like ghosts to each others.
People don't want to be forced to group up, cool, some games are like that, some aren't. What's stupid is people who come into mmo's under the excuse that SP are lonely and they want others around them (like teh article says) but you never, ever even try to interact with others, help them understand mechanics, sacrifice your own time to help other player in desperate need, nothing. If you want to be around others, why don't solo players actually DO something with, i don't know, other players?
Why get so upset over how other people choose to spend their time in game? So some people don't ever talk, so some people never group up or help.. Big deal. They bought their game, they are playing their game, and if the game has a sub fee, they are helping ensure the continued service of the game, which benefits you directly regardless of their chosen playstyle.
1) Damn right I don't want to share loot. No-one in their right mind would.
2) No, I would not group in the situation you describe, mostly due to point No. 1 but also because I'm busy killing mobs and doing quests/missions, so I have no time to waste on what passes for Chat these days. Also worth considering is that content in MMOs is so easy these days that you really don't need anyone else.
This is not to say I don't socialise online - I do... but it's done via voice chat with RL friends and family who are online doing whatever floats their boat. Voice chat with ACTUAL friends is vastly superior to text chatting to some random stranger I have never seen before and will never see again.
Thats why I hope one day there will be more levelless mmos and that would make the whole game the ''end game'' in my opinion
Regarding the highlighted green text: Are you role-playing a job?
TERA is presently plagued wtih an LFD chat that would make a sailor blush. The topics on that thing that I routinely log into would get a person arrested in many countries. You think people want to actually group with those folks? I would, if only to log their 'chat' and report it to the UN Human Rights Division.
You all know him. That one guy. You know. That guy you help do one quest, and suddenly he's convinced that means you just signed on to help him with the next 600 quests? He's out there. And he's likely every third person you see who wants to 'group'.
See that guy over there? Yah, that one. With the sword. He likes to group constantly. Of course, he won't shut up about how great he is during the entire run, spamming dps meters on critters, but wow does he like to group up. It's almost like he needs the approval of others...
You see that one? Over there, running into the wall. Loves to group, too. Has a thing for exploration. Now, I love me some exploration! Show me beautiful scenic vistas and I'm one happy camper! But...this guy takes it too far. He doesn't attempt to wall-walk a place for 3 minutes. He does it for 3 hours. Quested with him for 8 hours once and got 3 whole quests done. But we did make it halfway up a wall that led to nowhere along the way.
How about that guy there? Friendly as can be, loves to quest, knows how to get them done efficiently too. Of course, he needs a cigarette after every quest, plus occasionally dinner, a shower, or his mother wants him to take out the trash. Also, he insists on Vent for groups and seems to have a curious fascination with my voice...
I wonder why people hate grouping so much? Must just be that they're all single-player gamers who aren't smart enough to realize that MMO's weren't made for them. Yah...that's the ticket.
I am another who has been playing MMORGs now for going on 13 years (my how time flies). I am one of those SOLO players who started in the woods of Felwithe and I rarely if ever did ANYTHING ins a group. it wasn't until I hit endgame and was FORCED to do things in groups and join a guild that I did.
I find this to be the going theme of most every MMO out there since. Allow for solo but endgame you will always have to group and to guild up. Many items listed in the article are true but or me its the following reasons.
1) Schedule - I, as a parent and a responsible person, have many times I may have to just up and leave the computer. I would feel bad if I let a whole group down because I got a call that I had to go pick up my kids. I as well may log in at some odd hours when there are not as many players online. Should I not be able to progress my character because of not being able to find a group at a specific time?
2) Learned behavior - When I first started with MMOs I really really, really, tried to get into the grouping thing. I would get a quest and would ask people to kill stuff in Crushbone. Then you are met with the responses of "Haha I solo that stuff all the time" or "get some levels and you can do it yourself" BTW this is not just from EQ. I have had this happen so mant tiimes its not game specific its somthing that is inherent with the thoughts of higher levels mentality to minimize what may be hard to someone at another playing level. People seem to forget we all start each game as a noob in their own right.
3) Persistant changing world - I have found from this alone I can log in multiple hours a day for years and not care. When I am done with the years I have amassed the same amount of items as I worked all that time for. Something as simple as the auction houses can provide me many hours of entertainment trying to amass wealth. Do I really want to play a 50+ hour game for a few years and end the same story after 100 times with the same number items as the first time i played it through?
4) Relying on others can be a mistake - How many times have you been forced to have a group to have the group fall apart? How many times have you found that great item to have someone who didn't really need it takee it and say opps I meant to greed? How many times have you had that one party member that just won't behave and you have to kick him out? How many times does one have to be burned by a forced MMORPG grouping before they say stick it with forced groups and let me do my own thing?
I am not saying I don't like to group at all, in fact some of my favorite times in MMORPGs have been groups and raids but they have always been times when I have had to put a ton of work into the group/raid and in all reality the reward for my work was minimal. I am a person who has done endgame raiding but does not do endgame raiding continuously. Until MMORPGs can come up with a group system that is refined loot distribution wise, easy to utilize with very minimal downtime, has some way to ensure your group won't get stranded with a drop out, and can filter out those people mentioned in point number 2 that I really don't care to ever group with then I willl continue to do my soloing thing and then group only when required to.
Well new mmo's are not solo but for the leveling part. When it comes to endgame gear grinding then you are forced to group or pvp. This might be the reason why servers are empty with in few months of release,people that want to have the option of not having to group all the time leav the games.
I played a Wizard in one of the most unfriendly solo mmo's ever created, namely Everquest 1. The sandbox mmo with death penalty, even onto delevelling, and absolutely no quest or dungeon content you could solo. In fact even advancing your character in any noticeable manner required grouping, just to gain exp at a decent rate.
Unless you played a wizard or a necro. So I played a wizard. - Because I could have all the group content, but when groups werent around I was not forced to wait around. I could kite and solo that way.
Solo players play mmo's for the social factor. The fact that the environs arent predictable when they depend on other people and their actions, and the replayability that brings to the table.
Also, on occasion solo players will opt in to the socalled group play, with all the lively banter in groups - oh wait, we havent actually bothered with that aspect of social niceties outside our guilds since vanilla wow - but still sometimes we group. Just not very often.
To us your question is more easily read as: Why soloplayers dont want to sit on my guild ventrilo and listen to my genius every night of the week?
Your ONLY perogative is to vote with your dollar, which does NOT include telling players what to do. In fact, no one is going to change their play style, or what they play, just because some guy says so on the Internet. I know I won't
And don't you think the dev KNOWS which way the wind is blowing? Do you think it is a coincide when MMOs are lobbi-fied?
Vote with your dollars. That is the ONLY power you have.
This very well may be my first post despite using this site for years. I've played MMOs for the better part of a decade and I respectfully disagree with the above-highlighted statements.
Truth is, MMOs today seem to cater to a very different audience than the MMO gamers of old. I hate to be the guy who talked about "back in the day" but bear with me, because I'd like to make a point you may or may not appreciate...
My first MMO was FFXI upon launch. The game was an absolute grindfest. I didn't know any better. The first 10-18 levels was pretty easy to solo, but you quickly learned that it was more efficient to group up and kill mobs nonstop for hours on end. The concept of killing the same group of 18 lizards (one at a time, assuming our puller didn't link) each on a five minute respawn timer for a few hours straight was considered a fun night of partying. No it wasn't the mindless squashing of the same mob repeatedly that would make the night memorable. Eventually people would start talking, whether it was game or irl-related. Before long, the party was social enough to where the activity at hand didn't seem as much of a grind and acquaintences were well enough met to the point where you might even add someone to your "Friend's List" for future grouping.
The endgame scene was not solo-friendly, and lower end content and/or farming to participate in lower-end content could be solo'ed in theory, but again, the JPRG concept essentially designed the game to focus on grouping to accomplish your end goal.
It is entirely possible that due to the "values" I was raised with... from a gaming standpoint, mind you... That I've always associated tackling dungeons, world bosses, etc, as a means of having fun, and not necessarily concern myself with the drops/loot. I know I'm not the only person that has felt this way..
FFXI used to have world bosses that would spawn 3+ days after it's last Time of Death, and it would be camped heavily. The spawn times could vary and sometimes the boss would take several days before it would decide to show up again. I cannot count the sheer amount of hours, my linkshell (FFXI's version of Guild) mates and myself have spent camping these bosses, including being up at weird hours of the night just to help someone else get that drop that they've wanted. We've camped world bosses with drop rates of less than 5% for some pieces of equipment and yet most of the members of our group didn't opt out of helping because there wasn't anything in it for them.
We did it for the challenge, the bragging rights (outclaiming against other groups/linkshells), and just because we were competitive and enjoyed screwing around (running congo lines around the camp, just to piss others off while we laugh our asses off in vent)... all for the sake of having fun while we pass the time.
In the end, the loot itself wasn't really all that important. Hell, I led an endgame linkshell of 60+ active full-time members (not alts, actual warm bodies) that were from all over the world (preferred that over timezone based servers that western MMOs typically utilize). As the leader, and main tank in a lot of ocassions, I'd still pass up gear to help out newer players / aspiring tanks. I wanted that piece of equipment as well, but pixels don't mean nearly as much to me as a sense of community and thoroughly enjoying yourself. Plus, there's always next time..
With that being said, and I'm sorry for the semi-rant, I wholeheartedly disagree with the statement that all MMO gamers are self-serving individuals that only care about their own personal advancement.
I think the new breed of games, and the attitude of gamers it creates. is the culprit. Everything seems to be about instant gratification versus working together as part of a team over a long-term goal ... and when that goal is finally reached (whether you consider that beating an extremely difficult world boss or having that piece of loot drop), you drop it and move on to the next thing you 'need.'
I quit FFXI recently (sorta) when they announced a new series of expansions and level cap being raised to 99. Many will agree the Abyssea expansions ruined a perfectly well built game *minus the tedious level grind*. I tried looking into WoW..
My girlfriend played World of Warcraft, and needless to say, it was night & day comparing the attitudes of that community (and I use that term very loosely), to what I was accustomed to. I remember I ran a raid one night and was awarded some token that would upgrade a piece of equipment to the next tier of raiding gear. One of the fellows I ran with played the same class and happened to lose the roll. I didn't really know his story and ultimately ended up giving him my token, although it was strange... he kept wondering what the catch was... as if there was some hidden motivation for my deed.
Needless to say, no two people will have the same exact experience playing MMOs, but I do find that developers play a significant role in determining player behavior, from a macro standpoint, and I do wonder if I would be a different type of MMO gamer / guildmate / whatever you wanna label it, if WoW (it wasn't out at the time I started playing but you get my point) or something else was my very first MMO.
Dear god, sorry for the rant / wall of text.
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TLDR; Disagree
ps If anyone bothered to read that heinous wall of text and willing to provide a decent recommendation (mind you, i've downloaded about 15 different F2P clients and have bought 6 different P2P MMOs and just can't seem to find that game that will capture my loyalty like XI did prior to them ruining it), I'm all ears!
HAHAHA Im laughing my ass off here, I feel you on all those people. The worst ones for me are the ones that don't shut up about good they are and spam the dps meter after every fight. Then they usually tell you how to play your character also.