What makes the game persistant to begin with? You don't affect the world in any way. When you log out, I'd never know you were there. Is it that your character is saved on another server and you pop up where you were? Is it that the map never changes?
You can place tents, barbed wire, sandbags and tank traps on a server and they remain on that server until they're moved or destroyed (or bug out on reset ), and any vehicles you repair remain where you leave them after you log out (or they do when they're in the build). Groups of players are already building fortified outposts and trading posts up in the north, complete with vehicle pools, ammo dumps and medical tents. It's still early alpha and yet DayZ already allows you to affect the world more than almost all MMOs including WoW.
Your character is persistant across all servers but anything you build/place/leave in the world is only persistant on the one server - but it is persistant (when it doesn't bug out, alpha and all that). Rocket posted that he'd tried running his test server with all the player object data from all servers loaded in at once, but he literally couldn't move in some areas due to the sheer amount of wire that people have placed on them.
As for the server limits, well there's not much to be done about that given that it's tied to the ArmA 2 netcode. I don't mind it to be honest, I think many more than 50 people on a map the size of Chernarus would lose much of the apocalypse feeling. Can you imagine 1000 people in the same game? You couldn't call it post-apocalyptic, that's for sure.
Haha, DayZ is here because MMORPG.com has no integrity. Diablo3 and TL2 should not be here, they are not MMO's. This game is a mod of a game that isn't a MMO. It's quite laughable what the folks here have been doing with this website in the past year or so. Did someone say 120 votes was all that was needed to get this game added? I don't care if it was a landslide or not. What is the name of this website? Is it MMOsTHATareNOTmmosBUTweDONTstickTOourWORD.com?
Huh, maybe we should vote for a domain name change?
What makes the game persistant to begin with? You don't affect the world in any way. When you log out, I'd never know you were there. Is it that your character is saved on another server and you pop up where you were? Is it that the map never changes?
You can place tents, barbed wire, sandbags and tank traps on a server and they remain on that server until they're moved or destroyed (or bug out on reset ), and any vehicles you repair remain where you leave them after you log out (or they do when they're in the build). Groups of players are already building fortified outposts and trading posts up in the north, complete with vehicle pools, ammo dumps and medical tents. It's still early alpha and yet DayZ already allows you to affect the world more than almost all MMOs including WoW.
Your character is persistant across all servers but anything you build/place/leave in the world is only persistant on the one server - but it is persistant (when it doesn't bug out, alpha and all that). Rocket posted that he'd tried running his test server with all the player object data from all servers loaded in at once, but he literally couldn't move in some areas due to the sheer amount of wire that people have placed on them.
As for the server limits, well there's not much to be done about that given that it's tied to the ArmA 2 netcode. I don't mind it to be honest, I think many more than 50 people on a map the size of Chernarus would lose much of the apocalypse feeling. Can you imagine 1000 people in the same game? You couldn't call it post-apocalyptic, that's for sure.
i wouldnt really compare Dayz with WoW as both are totally opposite ends of the gaming bar.
as for persistant, thats debatable. placing world items while semi persistant really isnt, as you are not effecting the actual work. if you look at games like minecraft/xyon or other such games. persistant comes in the form of world editing to the topograph. just spawning a tank trap isnt the same thing to be honest.
sure its great that it stays but it really does not come across as persistant. it would be alot neater to beable to build cities in the forested areas but this game its mostly rural areas that you can just add "sprites" to. but then again this is alpha so perhaps later builds they might add more.
as for the pop limit thats a huge killer.. while this is a survialish mod a larger pop cap wouldnt hurt it much. while i wouldnt go as high as 1million people a server but .. 50 people is a tad low for even FPS games now days.. i mean BF has up to 60 people servers. other games can get higher... so if they could push this mod to 100 people it wouldnt cripple it or anything might make it more interesting and less... empty wild land scape and zombied people
I really don't see the TF2 comparison, which is why I had to ask.
TF2 is massively multiplayer (per the given definition in this thread), has crafting, can be played on a 'persistent' (as per the given definition in this thread) map, can be as immersive as any other FPS, and is equitable in most ways to DayZ.
As I said, I play and love the game, this isn't the ranting of a bitter MMO player or a 'DayZ is popular so lemme get up in that hate machine' post. My sole intention was to point out that, in my opinion, people are making it to be more than it is and that it doesn't belong in an MMORPG genre.
If the recipe for MMO is that its A) Persistant, Multiplayer, C) Immersive, D) can be roleplayed in...then lets stick to it and open the floodgates.
What makes the game persistant to begin with? You don't affect the world in any way. When you log out, I'd never know you were there. Is it that your character is saved on another server and you pop up where you were? Is it that the map never changes? As I said, you can make a static map in any given FPS with a few console commands.
I think the largest servers I saw were 50ish people. Battlefield supports 64 I think? Does it qualify?
Again with battlefield, I can speak like an angry marine and roleplay myself as an engineer...I find the game to be very immersive as well, I can lose hours playing a single battle...does that put it in the running for MMORPG?
I just don't see the difference. But yea, its here, so whatever. Lets get back to talking about how Guild Wars isn't a real MMORPG.
Not true.
The main difference here is the persistant database that spans ALL of the servers. So really, you could look at each server as an "instanced zone". The fact is, you don't play with more than 50-100 people per zone in MMOs like TOR, and so the only real difference is that there is only one "zone", and the "instances" are individual servers.
If you want really get technical, the main thing that sets it apart is the database. Tell me how TF2 resembles this at all. It simply does not.
You can call it crude if you want, but that database and the feature it allows for makes this game transcend the FPS title.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
What makes the game persistant to begin with? You don't affect the world in any way. When you log out, I'd never know you were there. Is it that your character is saved on another server and you pop up where you were? Is it that the map never changes?
You can place tents, barbed wire, sandbags and tank traps on a server and they remain on that server until they're moved or destroyed (or bug out on reset ), and any vehicles you repair remain where you leave them after you log out (or they do when they're in the build). Groups of players are already building fortified outposts and trading posts up in the north, complete with vehicle pools, ammo dumps and medical tents. It's still early alpha and yet DayZ already allows you to affect the world more than almost all MMOs including WoW.
Your character is persistant across all servers but anything you build/place/leave in the world is only persistant on the one server - but it is persistant (when it doesn't bug out, alpha and all that). Rocket posted that he'd tried running his test server with all the player object data from all servers loaded in at once, but he literally couldn't move in some areas due to the sheer amount of wire that people have placed on them.
As for the server limits, well there's not much to be done about that given that it's tied to the ArmA 2 netcode. I don't mind it to be honest, I think many more than 50 people on a map the size of Chernarus would lose much of the apocalypse feeling. Can you imagine 1000 people in the same game? You couldn't call it post-apocalyptic, that's for sure.
i wouldnt really compare Dayz with WoW as both are totally opposite ends of the gaming bar.
as for persistant, thats debatable. placing world items while semi persistant really isnt, as you are not effecting the actual work. if you look at games like minecraft/xyon or other such games. persistant comes in the form of world editing to the topograph. just spawning a tank trap isnt the same thing to be honest.
sure its great that it stays but it really does not come across as persistant. it would be alot neater to beable to build cities in the forested areas but this game its mostly rural areas that you can just add "sprites" to. but then again this is alpha so perhaps later builds they might add more.
I wasn't comparing DayZ to WoW, I was comparing it to almost all MMOs for its affectable world because the guy I was replying to was under the impression that the world was somehow too static for an MMO. I agree with you about Minecraft (and I think that should be on here too on the strength of its MMO mods), but I don't see how being able to build cities in DayZ would fit with its post-apocalyptic, last-days-of-humanity setting. I'm pretty sure that more persistant, placeable items will become available as the game develops, though.
Anyway, as far as DayZ and other games' presence on this site goes, just because the MMORPG scene is mostly stagnant it doesn't mean that MMORPG.com has to be. Sure, DayZ is a mod for a milsim and has all the limitations that go with that, but it is being developed as a proof of concept for ideas that simply will not be tried by the high-risk, high-cost MMORPG industry. I think it's good that DayZ is on this site because it represents a future for MMORPGs that no other MMORPG has any interest in developing. The fact that this game has captured so many imaginations and drawn in so many MMORPG gamers proves that there's an appetite for another direction in the genre.
When they atrted adding games like gw it was always going to end up here. Where's the harm? Well we get a load of devs now calling their games mmo's and they flat out are not. We have 50-100 playing single player games on the same instance and it's now an mmo, what a joke.
Once games release information on the their actual server structure and limits before they start adding instances the staff here should then start removing games if they don't live up to the 500 player limit that was originally on the site. They should also start rating the games on things like group play, sick of this self importance crap about 'not telling people how to play their game', you have to tell poeple how to play because most of them wouldn't know decent mechanics if it slapped them in the face. We're going backwards here.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
...sick of this self importance crap about 'not telling people how to play their game', you have to tell poeple how to play because most of them wouldn't know decent mechanics if it slapped them in the face. We're going backwards here.
But not all of us need or want to be told how to play. There's room for all kinds of gamestyles in the MMORPG space even though the last few years have catered for those who need to be led rather than those who want to find their own way and have their own adventures.
When they atrted adding games like gw it was always going to end up here. Where's the harm? Well we get a load of devs now calling their games mmo's and they flat out are not. We have 50-100 playing single player games on the same instance and it's now an mmo, what a joke.
Once games release information on the their actual server structure and limits before they start adding instances the staff here should then start removing games if they don't live up to the 500 player limit that was originally on the site. They should also start rating the games on things like group play, sick of this self importance crap about 'not telling people how to play their game', you have to tell poeple how to play because most of them wouldn't know decent mechanics if it slapped them in the face. We're going backwards here.
The best thing about Day Z is that you can play it any way you want.
If it had a certain way you had to play it and advance it would be garbage. I spent 6 hours the other day surviving in the wild, camping in the woods, killing animals and scavenging from abandoned villages. While I am doing that, another guy is in city with a sniper rifle picking people off, while he is doing that a group of players are trying to help others with supplies and survival, while they are doing that another guy is playing the game like its his own personal left4dead.
So while I am playing a camping/survival game, another guy is playing pvp, more are playing co op, and more are playing whatever they hell they want. ALL IN ONE GAME.
This more MMORPG than just about every traditional MMORPG I have played, the player limit here I feel actually helps as someone else stated if you had hundreds of people running around the world it would feel not like the zombie apocalypse but just a big pvp gank fest, by having the current player limit this prevents this to an extent and you really get the feeling of dread and being a survivor, not just a cog in the machine that doesn't matter.
When they atrted adding games like gw it was always going to end up here. Where's the harm? Well we get a load of devs now calling their games mmo's and they flat out are not. We have 50-100 playing single player games on the same instance and it's now an mmo, what a joke.
Once games release information on the their actual server structure and limits before they start adding instances the staff here should then start removing games if they don't live up to the 500 player limit that was originally on the site. They should also start rating the games on things like group play, sick of this self importance crap about 'not telling people how to play their game', you have to tell poeple how to play because most of them wouldn't know decent mechanics if it slapped them in the face. We're going backwards here.
The best thing about Day Z is that you can play it any way you want.
If it had a certain way you had to play it and advance it would be garbage. I spent 6 hours the other day surviving in the wild, camping in the woods, killing animals and scavenging from abandoned villages. While I am doing that, another guy is in city with a sniper rifle picking people off, while he is doing that a group of players are trying to help others with supplies and survival, while they are doing that another guy is playing the game like its his own personal left4dead.
So while I am playing a camping/survival game, another guy is playing pvp, more are playing co op, and more are playing whatever they hell they want. ALL IN ONE GAME.
This more MMORPG than just about every traditional MMORPG I have played, the player limit here I feel actually helps as someone else stated if you had hundreds of people running around the world it would feel not like the zombie apocalypse but just a big pvp gank fest, by having the current player limit this prevents this to an extent and you really get the feeling of dread and being a survivor, not just a cog in the machine that doesn't matter.
When they atrted adding games like gw it was always going to end up here. Where's the harm? Well we get a load of devs now calling their games mmo's and they flat out are not. We have 50-100 playing single player games on the same instance and it's now an mmo, what a joke.
Once games release information on the their actual server structure and limits before they start adding instances the staff here should then start removing games if they don't live up to the 500 player limit that was originally on the site. They should also start rating the games on things like group play, sick of this self importance crap about 'not telling people how to play their game', you have to tell poeple how to play because most of them wouldn't know decent mechanics if it slapped them in the face. We're going backwards here.
The best thing about Day Z is that you can play it any way you want.
If it had a certain way you had to play it and advance it would be garbage. I spent 6 hours the other day surviving in the wild, camping in the woods, killing animals and scavenging from abandoned villages. While I am doing that, another guy is in city with a sniper rifle picking people off, while he is doing that a group of players are trying to help others with supplies and survival, while they are doing that another guy is playing the game like its his own personal left4dead.
So while I am playing a camping/survival game, another guy is playing pvp, more are playing co op, and more are playing whatever they hell they want. ALL IN ONE GAME.
This more MMORPG than just about every traditional MMORPG I have played, the player limit here I feel actually helps as someone else stated if you had hundreds of people running around the world it would feel not like the zombie apocalypse but just a big pvp gank fest, by having the current player limit this prevents this to an extent and you really get the feeling of dread and being a survivor, not just a cog in the machine that doesn't matter.
Bullshit.
Good argument Bro!
Within the scope of surviving a zombie apocalypse you can do whatever you want.
The best thing about Day Z is that you can play it any way you want.
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Not true.
The main difference here is the persistant database that spans ALL of the servers. So really, you could look at each server as an "instanced zone". The fact is, you don't play with more than 50-100 people per zone in MMOs like TOR, and so the only real difference is that there is only one "zone", and the "instances" are individual servers.
If you want really get technical, the main thing that sets it apart is the database. Tell me how TF2 resembles this at all. It simply does not.
You can call it crude if you want, but that database and the feature it allows for makes this game transcend the FPS title.
You can play any way you want? You can negotiate peace with the zombies and coexist in a torn world? Nope, shoot em in the face. You can create a R&D division/faction and study them to increase understanding and increase chance of survival? Nope, shoot em in the face. You can go through Half Life 2 without shooting anyone too.
As far as the database, it holds your character info, not the game info. Again with TF2, if I craft a special helmet for my soldier, and go play on another server, I'll still have my special helmet. If I play BF3 and unlock a new model for my 1911 and swap servers, I'll still have my new 1911.
The best thing about Day Z is that you can play it any way you want.
You can play any way you want? You can negotiate peace with the zombies and coexist in a torn world? Nope, shoot em in the face. You can create a R&D division/faction and study them to increase understanding and increase chance of survival? Nope, shoot em in the face. You can go through Half Life 2 without shooting anyone too.
It's a zombie apocalypse. They've already won. What's left of mankind is living out of tins of cold beans and shivering against sickness in the rainy nights. Negotiating peace with zombies? All they want to do is kill and eat you. R&D? Those days are over - zombie apocalypse, remember? The world is not going to be rebuilt, there is no hope. Everyone is going to die.
Within this context you can play any way you want, just as SlickShoes went on to describe. DayZ has far more freedom than any number of modern MMORPGs or FPSs - and it's still only in alpha.
When they atrted adding games like gw it was always going to end up here. Where's the harm? Well we get a load of devs now calling their games mmo's and they flat out are not. We have 50-100 playing single player games on the same instance and it's now an mmo, what a joke.
Once games release information on the their actual server structure and limits before they start adding instances the staff here should then start removing games if they don't live up to the 500 player limit that was originally on the site. They should also start rating the games on things like group play, sick of this self importance crap about 'not telling people how to play their game', you have to tell poeple how to play because most of them wouldn't know decent mechanics if it slapped them in the face. We're going backwards here.
The best thing about Day Z is that you can play it any way you want.
If it had a certain way you had to play it and advance it would be garbage. I spent 6 hours the other day surviving in the wild, camping in the woods, killing animals and scavenging from abandoned villages. While I am doing that, another guy is in city with a sniper rifle picking people off, while he is doing that a group of players are trying to help others with supplies and survival, while they are doing that another guy is playing the game like its his own personal left4dead.
So while I am playing a camping/survival game, another guy is playing pvp, more are playing co op, and more are playing whatever they hell they want. ALL IN ONE GAME.
This more MMORPG than just about every traditional MMORPG I have played, the player limit here I feel actually helps as someone else stated if you had hundreds of people running around the world it would feel not like the zombie apocalypse but just a big pvp gank fest, by having the current player limit this prevents this to an extent and you really get the feeling of dread and being a survivor, not just a cog in the machine that doesn't matter.
Bullshit.
Good argument Bro!
Within the scope of surviving a zombie apocalypse you can do whatever you want.
In the scope of shooting the enemy in the face i can do whatever i want in Battlefield 3.
Call me when they introduce unarmed combat because, in the scope of surviving the zombie apocalypse, id like to actually defend my self, not artificailly be forced to use a fucking gun.
The best thing about Day Z is that you can play it any way you want.
You can play any way you want? You can negotiate peace with the zombies and coexist in a torn world? Nope, shoot em in the face. You can create a R&D division/faction and study them to increase understanding and increase chance of survival? Nope, shoot em in the face. You can go through Half Life 2 without shooting anyone too.
It's a zombie apocalypse. They've already won. What's left of mankind is living out of tins of cold beans and shivering against sickness in the rainy nights. Negotiating peace with zombies? All they want to do is kill and eat you. R&D? Those days are over - zombie apocalypse, remember? The world is not going to be rebuilt, there is no hope. Everyone is going to die.
Within this context you can play any way you want, just as SlickShoes went on to describe. DayZ has far more freedom than any number of modern MMORPGs or FPSs - and it's still only in alpha.
It has freedom in the sense that you get dropped in the middle of the map and are told to make the best of it. I'll give you that. Your options are far from limitless outside of that. Go east or west, pull the trigger or dont, look in that building or walk past it. Again, this isn't to say any other game is better, in fact its more of the same or worse.
You're building this up to be a sandbox MMO, and Zeus knows the community has no tolerance for those.
You're building this up to be a sandbox MMO, and Zeus knows the community has no tolerance for those.
Wait, what? The DayZ forums are full of themeparky ideas getting blown out of the water by the community. And none of that matters anyway.
To quote Rocket when replying to these themeparky suggestions - "Jesus Christ, it's like weaning people off f*cking heroin!"
Even at this early stage of development, DayZ is more sandbox than just about any MMO released over the past 8 years, and from everything Rocket has said it's only going to get more sandboxy. He wants to build a simulated world with simulated actions and then leave it up to the players to make of it what they will. You don't get any more sandboxy than that.
There is no sense in arguing over semantics. Some appreciate what DayZ has to offer and some don't. Some don't play it and don't get what it's all about and until they play it they never will. Trying to sum up this game in a forum post or even a video just doesn't do the game credit. Unless you play it and live the life of a surviver in DayZ you'll never fully understand it.
Is DayZ a sandbox in the truest form of the word? Certainly not but it does have more sandbox elements of any current MMO or any released in the last 8 years. Is it a MMO? Certainly not but it does give you a sense of MMOishness. If you like it... Play it. If you don't... Don't play it. The game is what it is... Deal with it.
You're building this up to be a sandbox MMO, and Zeus knows the community has no tolerance for those.
Wait, what? The DayZ forums are full of themeparky ideas getting blown out of the water by the community. And none of that matters anyway.
To quote Rocket when replying to these themeparky suggestions - "Jesus Christ, it's like weaning people off f*cking heroin!"
Even at this early stage of development, DayZ is more sandbox than just about any MMO released over the past 8 years, and from everything Rocket has said it's only going to get more sandboxy. He wants to build a simulated world with simulated actions and then leave it up to the players to make of it what they will. You don't get any more sandboxy than that.
You're building this up to be a sandbox MMO, and Zeus knows the community has no tolerance for those.
Wait, what? The DayZ forums are full of themeparky ideas getting blown out of the water by the community. And none of that matters anyway.
To quote Rocket when replying to these themeparky suggestions - "Jesus Christ, it's like weaning people off f*cking heroin!"
Even at this early stage of development, DayZ is more sandbox than just about any MMO released over the past 8 years, and from everything Rocket has said it's only going to get more sandboxy. He wants to build a simulated world with simulated actions and then leave it up to the players to make of it what they will. You don't get any more sandboxy than that.
Did they introduce unarmed combat yet?
i.e. not using a gun.
No, not yet. Just to recap - alpha, early stage of development etc, and up until a couple of weeks ago it wasn't "they" it was "he" and only in his spare time.
Bearing in mind that DayZ isn't about making the player feel like a hero, I wouldn't hold out too much hope that unarmed combat will do too much good against the game's zombies. They are stronger than us.
Let's make a comparison between what everyon can agree is an MMO (WoW) and DayZ.
1. Servers:
WoW has multiple servers. You log onto a server and create a character and join the world, starting from the beginning. If you wish to switch servers you either must a.) pay for a server transfer or b.) start over with your character.
Day Z has multiple servers that you can log onto. In the main game you create a character, then select which server you wish to log onto. You do not have to a.) pay for a sever transfer or b.) restart your character.
2. Leveling System, Skills and Specs
WoW bases its leveling system on running quests and gaining XP to gain powers and skills and aquire new equipment that you can equip. Gear increases your ability to run more difficult dungeons/quests/areas and requires you to grind to aquire what is needed to advance further.
Day Z bases its leveling system on experiencing the game, learing how to play it, increasing your RL skills and dealing with the environment and aquiring equipment through exploration and being able to over come obsticals that will force you to start completely over if you do not 'win'. Gear is aquired through locating items in the game while avoiding certain death. Some gear will allow you to aquire more gear, while other gear will make you more powerful in the game to continue to servive longer and easier.
3. Jobs
In WoW you can select three different jobs that your character has. Collectiong/gathering jobs and crafting jobs. In crafting jobs you must aquire items from gathering jobs to make things. You do this by searching the world for sparkling things that you click on and watch a progression bar. Once you click on enough of those things, you can then click on a create item button that will again show you a progression bar that will take some items out of your inventory and replace it with another item.
In Day Z you collect items at the threat of losing your life (and all of your gear) in order to do additional things that will allow you to continue to live. Want to be able to hunt and cook your own food? You find a knife and an axe and kill an animal and get its meat and chop down wood and make a fire and you don't need to try to find food in towns anymore. You find a tool box, then hunt down items to rebuild a vehicle or helicopter so you can travel. You find a compas and map so that you can better find your way around. It's all about staying alive for as long as you can.
4. STATIC WORLD
When people complain that Day Z is static, I have to wonder what they think their MMO of choice is, if it isn't static. Static means that everything always remains the same. In WoW this means that the same bosses and monsters and world eletes will never die for good. Your actions in the game will never change the game. No matte rhow many times you kill the final boss, you will have no effect on the game world. This is static.
In this sense, Day Z is also static. You can't stop the zombie appocolypes, you can only try to survive it for as long as you can...However, that's where the difference stops. You can team up, you can form groups, you can be a band of bandits pillaging and raping and killing the other players for their gear, or a group of survivalists that hunt down the assholes who are trying to gank all the other people. You can set up camps and become a world of your own that raids zombie towns. Sure, it's limited in how non-static it is...But it's leaps and bounds and a damn good step in the right direction of a game that is not static.
5. RP
RP in WoW and other online graphical mmo's always seemed retarded to me. Perhaps because what I think of as RP is something you would find in a MUSH or MUX or at your table with PnP books...Your RP in MMO's is pointless because no matter what you do, it has ZERO effect on the game world. Your character and another has a fuerd, gets married or forms a guild of bounty hunters? Um...So what? Nothing you do will change the plot or story in the slightest...And if what you role play has no effect on the world around your characters, WTF is the point?
RP in Day Z has much greater potential, becuase your effect in the world actually does effect the story of the other characters around you. Your actions has a direct effect on the game world, because the game world is based upon the story of each individual that logs in. The story is surviving the world that you are in. Sure, you can't build camps or towns or get into a building and set it up as a fortress which must be guiarded 24/7, but you SORT of can. It's not pure RP that you can get from a persistant world such as a MUX or TT game provides, but it is a HUGE step in that direction. There's meaning in RP when your RP has the potential of effecting the other players and their world.
6. Conclusion
The only way that this game is not considered to be an MMO is that there are not dedicated servers to log into, as it is a MOD in ALPHA. IF the only deffinition of MMO is that hundreds or thousands of people should be in the same world at the same time, then no, DAY Z is not an MMO. However, if MMO is defined by what MMOs of today have to offer, when multiple people (25-50) can share that experience with eachother at the same time (yeah, right, when's the last time you actually enjoyed playing with that many people all at once in WoW), then I submit Day Z as an MMO...Or at least as something that a very smart investor or two should very strongly consider making into an MMO.
The sad truth is, this FREE mod for an FPS gives me more of the MMORPG rush I had back in the day than any MMO released in the last 5 years.
What MMORPG devs need to do is pay close attention to what the phenomenon of Day Z represents, and what people love about it, and try to harness that for their game. This game captures atmosphere and the true nature of what the game is intended. It is so much more than a FPS, but not quite a sandbox.
What it is, though, is a hell of a lot of fun. I would leave it here on this site just for the reason that devs should follow it for their own work, if for no other reason.
just wait till dayz 2 for arma 3 comes out...going to be able to host 100-200 players a server, and be locked to that server like you are in mmos. It will be classifyed as a MMO so deal with it. best game ever, dont like it? too bad, cry about it god knows everyone on this site does.
considering dayz is the only game in close to 4 years to actually hold my intrest and keep me awake till 4am since i was a young lad...i would say its a F&$^(^@ good game. best mod ever created in history...and possible best game of the year for me.
Comments
Why?
Because this is www.mmorpg.com and not www.wowclone.com
"Can I crush his neck now, master? Just a little? It's been a long time fantasy of mine..." - HK-47
You can place tents, barbed wire, sandbags and tank traps on a server and they remain on that server until they're moved or destroyed (or bug out on reset
), and any vehicles you repair remain where you leave them after you log out (or they do when they're in the build). Groups of players are already building fortified outposts and trading posts up in the north, complete with vehicle pools, ammo dumps and medical tents. It's still early alpha and yet DayZ already allows you to affect the world more than almost all MMOs including WoW.
Your character is persistant across all servers but anything you build/place/leave in the world is only persistant on the one server - but it is persistant (when it doesn't bug out, alpha and all that). Rocket posted that he'd tried running his test server with all the player object data from all servers loaded in at once, but he literally couldn't move in some areas due to the sheer amount of wire that people have placed on them.
As for the server limits, well there's not much to be done about that given that it's tied to the ArmA 2 netcode. I don't mind it to be honest, I think many more than 50 people on a map the size of Chernarus would lose much of the apocalypse feeling. Can you imagine 1000 people in the same game? You couldn't call it post-apocalyptic, that's for sure.
Haha, DayZ is here because MMORPG.com has no integrity. Diablo3 and TL2 should not be here, they are not MMO's. This game is a mod of a game that isn't a MMO. It's quite laughable what the folks here have been doing with this website in the past year or so. Did someone say 120 votes was all that was needed to get this game added? I don't care if it was a landslide or not. What is the name of this website? Is it MMOsTHATareNOTmmosBUTweDONTstickTOourWORD.com?
Huh, maybe we should vote for a domain name change?
i wouldnt really compare Dayz with WoW as both are totally opposite ends of the gaming bar.
as for persistant, thats debatable. placing world items while semi persistant really isnt, as you are not effecting the actual work. if you look at games like minecraft/xyon or other such games. persistant comes in the form of world editing to the topograph. just spawning a tank trap isnt the same thing to be honest.
sure its great that it stays but it really does not come across as persistant. it would be alot neater to beable to build cities in the forested areas but this game its mostly rural areas that you can just add "sprites" to. but then again this is alpha so perhaps later builds they might add more.
as for the pop limit thats a huge killer.. while this is a survialish mod a larger pop cap wouldnt hurt it much. while i wouldnt go as high as 1million people a server but .. 50 people is a tad low for even FPS games now days.. i mean BF has up to 60 people servers. other games can get higher... so if they could push this mod to 100 people it wouldnt cripple it or anything might make it more interesting and less... empty wild land scape and zombied people
Not true.
The main difference here is the persistant database that spans ALL of the servers. So really, you could look at each server as an "instanced zone". The fact is, you don't play with more than 50-100 people per zone in MMOs like TOR, and so the only real difference is that there is only one "zone", and the "instances" are individual servers.
If you want really get technical, the main thing that sets it apart is the database. Tell me how TF2 resembles this at all. It simply does not.
You can call it crude if you want, but that database and the feature it allows for makes this game transcend the FPS title.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I wasn't comparing DayZ to WoW, I was comparing it to almost all MMOs for its affectable world because the guy I was replying to was under the impression that the world was somehow too static for an MMO. I agree with you about Minecraft (and I think that should be on here too on the strength of its MMO mods), but I don't see how being able to build cities in DayZ would fit with its post-apocalyptic, last-days-of-humanity setting. I'm pretty sure that more persistant, placeable items will become available as the game develops, though.
Anyway, as far as DayZ and other games' presence on this site goes, just because the MMORPG scene is mostly stagnant it doesn't mean that MMORPG.com has to be. Sure, DayZ is a mod for a milsim and has all the limitations that go with that, but it is being developed as a proof of concept for ideas that simply will not be tried by the high-risk, high-cost MMORPG industry. I think it's good that DayZ is on this site because it represents a future for MMORPGs that no other MMORPG has any interest in developing. The fact that this game has captured so many imaginations and drawn in so many MMORPG gamers proves that there's an appetite for another direction in the genre.
When they atrted adding games like gw it was always going to end up here. Where's the harm? Well we get a load of devs now calling their games mmo's and they flat out are not. We have 50-100 playing single player games on the same instance and it's now an mmo, what a joke.
Once games release information on the their actual server structure and limits before they start adding instances the staff here should then start removing games if they don't live up to the 500 player limit that was originally on the site. They should also start rating the games on things like group play, sick of this self importance crap about 'not telling people how to play their game', you have to tell poeple how to play because most of them wouldn't know decent mechanics if it slapped them in the face. We're going backwards here.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
But not all of us need or want to be told how to play. There's room for all kinds of gamestyles in the MMORPG space even though the last few years have catered for those who need to be led rather than those who want to find their own way and have their own adventures.
The best thing about Day Z is that you can play it any way you want.
If it had a certain way you had to play it and advance it would be garbage. I spent 6 hours the other day surviving in the wild, camping in the woods, killing animals and scavenging from abandoned villages. While I am doing that, another guy is in city with a sniper rifle picking people off, while he is doing that a group of players are trying to help others with supplies and survival, while they are doing that another guy is playing the game like its his own personal left4dead.
So while I am playing a camping/survival game, another guy is playing pvp, more are playing co op, and more are playing whatever they hell they want. ALL IN ONE GAME.
This more MMORPG than just about every traditional MMORPG I have played, the player limit here I feel actually helps as someone else stated if you had hundreds of people running around the world it would feel not like the zombie apocalypse but just a big pvp gank fest, by having the current player limit this prevents this to an extent and you really get the feeling of dread and being a survivor, not just a cog in the machine that doesn't matter.
Bullshit.
Good argument Bro!
Within the scope of surviving a zombie apocalypse you can do whatever you want.
You can play any way you want? You can negotiate peace with the zombies and coexist in a torn world? Nope, shoot em in the face. You can create a R&D division/faction and study them to increase understanding and increase chance of survival? Nope, shoot em in the face. You can go through Half Life 2 without shooting anyone too.
As far as the database, it holds your character info, not the game info. Again with TF2, if I craft a special helmet for my soldier, and go play on another server, I'll still have my special helmet. If I play BF3 and unlock a new model for my 1911 and swap servers, I'll still have my new 1911.
It's a zombie apocalypse. They've already won. What's left of mankind is living out of tins of cold beans and shivering against sickness in the rainy nights. Negotiating peace with zombies? All they want to do is kill and eat you. R&D? Those days are over - zombie apocalypse, remember? The world is not going to be rebuilt, there is no hope. Everyone is going to die.
Within this context you can play any way you want, just as SlickShoes went on to describe. DayZ has far more freedom than any number of modern MMORPGs or FPSs - and it's still only in alpha.
In the scope of shooting the enemy in the face i can do whatever i want in Battlefield 3.
Call me when they introduce unarmed combat because, in the scope of surviving the zombie apocalypse, id like to actually defend my self, not artificailly be forced to use a fucking gun.
"can play any way you want" my ass.
It has freedom in the sense that you get dropped in the middle of the map and are told to make the best of it. I'll give you that. Your options are far from limitless outside of that. Go east or west, pull the trigger or dont, look in that building or walk past it. Again, this isn't to say any other game is better, in fact its more of the same or worse.
You're building this up to be a sandbox MMO, and Zeus knows the community has no tolerance for those.
Wait, what? The DayZ forums are full of themeparky ideas getting blown out of the water by the community. And none of that matters anyway.
To quote Rocket when replying to these themeparky suggestions - "Jesus Christ, it's like weaning people off f*cking heroin!"
Even at this early stage of development, DayZ is more sandbox than just about any MMO released over the past 8 years, and from everything Rocket has said it's only going to get more sandboxy. He wants to build a simulated world with simulated actions and then leave it up to the players to make of it what they will. You don't get any more sandboxy than that.
There is no sense in arguing over semantics. Some appreciate what DayZ has to offer and some don't. Some don't play it and don't get what it's all about and until they play it they never will. Trying to sum up this game in a forum post or even a video just doesn't do the game credit. Unless you play it and live the life of a surviver in DayZ you'll never fully understand it.
Is DayZ a sandbox in the truest form of the word? Certainly not but it does have more sandbox elements of any current MMO or any released in the last 8 years. Is it a MMO? Certainly not but it does give you a sense of MMOishness. If you like it... Play it. If you don't... Don't play it. The game is what it is... Deal with it.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
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Did they introduce unarmed combat yet?
i.e. not using a gun.
No, not yet. Just to recap - alpha, early stage of development etc, and up until a couple of weeks ago it wasn't "they" it was "he" and only in his spare time.
Bearing in mind that DayZ isn't about making the player feel like a hero, I wouldn't hold out too much hope that unarmed combat will do too much good against the game's zombies. They are stronger than us.
How this ISN'T viewed as an MMO is beyond me.
Let's make a comparison between what everyon can agree is an MMO (WoW) and DayZ.
1. Servers:
WoW has multiple servers. You log onto a server and create a character and join the world, starting from the beginning. If you wish to switch servers you either must a.) pay for a server transfer or b.) start over with your character.
Day Z has multiple servers that you can log onto. In the main game you create a character, then select which server you wish to log onto. You do not have to a.) pay for a sever transfer or b.) restart your character.
2. Leveling System, Skills and Specs
WoW bases its leveling system on running quests and gaining XP to gain powers and skills and aquire new equipment that you can equip. Gear increases your ability to run more difficult dungeons/quests/areas and requires you to grind to aquire what is needed to advance further.
Day Z bases its leveling system on experiencing the game, learing how to play it, increasing your RL skills and dealing with the environment and aquiring equipment through exploration and being able to over come obsticals that will force you to start completely over if you do not 'win'. Gear is aquired through locating items in the game while avoiding certain death. Some gear will allow you to aquire more gear, while other gear will make you more powerful in the game to continue to servive longer and easier.
3. Jobs
In WoW you can select three different jobs that your character has. Collectiong/gathering jobs and crafting jobs. In crafting jobs you must aquire items from gathering jobs to make things. You do this by searching the world for sparkling things that you click on and watch a progression bar. Once you click on enough of those things, you can then click on a create item button that will again show you a progression bar that will take some items out of your inventory and replace it with another item.
In Day Z you collect items at the threat of losing your life (and all of your gear) in order to do additional things that will allow you to continue to live. Want to be able to hunt and cook your own food? You find a knife and an axe and kill an animal and get its meat and chop down wood and make a fire and you don't need to try to find food in towns anymore. You find a tool box, then hunt down items to rebuild a vehicle or helicopter so you can travel. You find a compas and map so that you can better find your way around. It's all about staying alive for as long as you can.
4. STATIC WORLD
When people complain that Day Z is static, I have to wonder what they think their MMO of choice is, if it isn't static. Static means that everything always remains the same. In WoW this means that the same bosses and monsters and world eletes will never die for good. Your actions in the game will never change the game. No matte rhow many times you kill the final boss, you will have no effect on the game world. This is static.
In this sense, Day Z is also static. You can't stop the zombie appocolypes, you can only try to survive it for as long as you can...However, that's where the difference stops. You can team up, you can form groups, you can be a band of bandits pillaging and raping and killing the other players for their gear, or a group of survivalists that hunt down the assholes who are trying to gank all the other people. You can set up camps and become a world of your own that raids zombie towns. Sure, it's limited in how non-static it is...But it's leaps and bounds and a damn good step in the right direction of a game that is not static.
5. RP
RP in WoW and other online graphical mmo's always seemed retarded to me. Perhaps because what I think of as RP is something you would find in a MUSH or MUX or at your table with PnP books...Your RP in MMO's is pointless because no matter what you do, it has ZERO effect on the game world. Your character and another has a fuerd, gets married or forms a guild of bounty hunters? Um...So what? Nothing you do will change the plot or story in the slightest...And if what you role play has no effect on the world around your characters, WTF is the point?
RP in Day Z has much greater potential, becuase your effect in the world actually does effect the story of the other characters around you. Your actions has a direct effect on the game world, because the game world is based upon the story of each individual that logs in. The story is surviving the world that you are in. Sure, you can't build camps or towns or get into a building and set it up as a fortress which must be guiarded 24/7, but you SORT of can. It's not pure RP that you can get from a persistant world such as a MUX or TT game provides, but it is a HUGE step in that direction. There's meaning in RP when your RP has the potential of effecting the other players and their world.
6. Conclusion
The only way that this game is not considered to be an MMO is that there are not dedicated servers to log into, as it is a MOD in ALPHA. IF the only deffinition of MMO is that hundreds or thousands of people should be in the same world at the same time, then no, DAY Z is not an MMO. However, if MMO is defined by what MMOs of today have to offer, when multiple people (25-50) can share that experience with eachother at the same time (yeah, right, when's the last time you actually enjoyed playing with that many people all at once in WoW), then I submit Day Z as an MMO...Or at least as something that a very smart investor or two should very strongly consider making into an MMO.
The sad truth is, this FREE mod for an FPS gives me more of the MMORPG rush I had back in the day than any MMO released in the last 5 years.
What MMORPG devs need to do is pay close attention to what the phenomenon of Day Z represents, and what people love about it, and try to harness that for their game. This game captures atmosphere and the true nature of what the game is intended. It is so much more than a FPS, but not quite a sandbox.
What it is, though, is a hell of a lot of fun. I would leave it here on this site just for the reason that devs should follow it for their own work, if for no other reason.
just wait till dayz 2 for arma 3 comes out...going to be able to host 100-200 players a server, and be locked to that server like you are in mmos. It will be classifyed as a MMO so deal with it. best game ever, dont like it? too bad, cry about it god knows everyone on this site does.
considering dayz is the only game in close to 4 years to actually hold my intrest and keep me awake till 4am since i was a young lad...i would say its a F&$^(^@ good game. best mod ever created in history...and possible best game of the year for me.