Yes and it happened very fast, the initial Real Money auction was in fact working as should, some people trying to sell for insane prices, obviously never actually selling a thing, others valued it at what they would pay for it themselves and were successful in doing so.approximately 2 hours after it went live the market was flooded with all the high end items selling for 1-5 usd, items that others had successfully sold for much more, I for one sold a cple legendary rings for 20$ a piece...but hrs later noticed 100 of them listed....all being sold at $1.50usd, i knew it was going to happen, but i had hoped blizzard would have worked something out that banned overseas IPs ....but they did not. (I know its asking a lot)Purpose of thread is basically to discuss how easy it is for overseas gold farmers to completely destroy and in end result control a market...and im not just talking about MMO gold farming when i say that, it happens in almost every business market. Question is when do we push to have it stopped. Personally i will not touch the real money trade anymore knowing that its controlled by overseas gold farmers, but all must know that they wouldnt be doing it if kids were not spending.
So we should be upset that someone has undercut you? So instead of paying you $20 I can pay someone else $1.50, and that is an issue? You do realize that in most of the Eu and US we have free market economies? This happens everyday a new Walmart opens and local business can't compete, but somehow this in your mind has become a gold farmer issue? All I see is the difference in currency valuations between your country and whatever country they are in, and/or their more dedication to playing. You are presuming they are some sort of blight, but have no proof only emotional anger over the fact they have beat your pricing and kept you from being a diablo millionaire.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
You know the hilarious part is how short sighted people are.
I see people posting in here that the solution is to "get rid of the carrot on the stick, get rid of the "grind""
Its such a popular thing to say, but people don't realize this is what lead to the current state of many console games like the modern warfare series. Where now people are getting pissed because they company is basically taking the old product, slapping a new coat of paint on it, and reselling it with slightly shinier and better graphics. They're the ones who are now complaining because they spent $60 on a game that had 7-10 hours worth of "content".
All games have carrot on the stick elements, thats what drives games, thats the WHOLE POINT. You play rock band and you do it to get better so you can play harder tracks, or buy new trinkets for you avatar. You play BF3 so you can unlock new weapons, etc etc.
Wtf are you talking about games are about playing. They are not about grinding, get a clue alreayd, have you ever grinded playing chess, cards, playing any kind of game ever? If repetitivness is a constant in life and in computer for sure. Well it never was, and never will be "THE POINT OF IT". get a clue alreay, it is a method and a mean, not the goal.
Weird how on other forums I visit people are doing quite well for what it is (ie if you thought you'd be making a living off of this, you are having bigger problems but it's still funny that you're complaining others are). But on MMORPG terms like DESTROYED are thrown around again. This is like the session hack and ah clock exploit right?
If all good stuff is is easy to get through a RMAH, why grind for it for days and days at an end? It's just a simple calculation: "Will I spend 100+ hours on getting these pants or will I pay $2.50?" "Heck, I make $ xx an hour in real life so why even grind for it myself? Grinding is actually much more expensive if I think of it that way."
Now when the PVP module comes out I can see this argument, but in theory by then everyone will have had a reasonable chance to gear up their characters.
Yup, but it doesn't even require competition for this system to defeat a big chunk of the game's purpose: "finding upgrades", as you can simply buy them for just a small fee.
So, the purpose of the game is to spend " 100+ hours " doing things you don't enjoy because you are tempted by the Panties of UberAwesomness? And now you can just buy them for a buck and _not_ waste 100+ hours of your life on activity you don't enjoy... And you somehow consider it a bad thing?
Personally, I hope the whole thing blows up in their faces. I hope that gold farmers and over-zealous players continue to flood the market with supply and drop prices of top-tier items to under $3. In the end, you will be able to get full end game gear for like $10 if this happens, and people who bought single items for $70 will be infuriated. It will be beautiful.
And I am NOT a Blizzard hater btw. I love Starcraft, D1, D2, and even WoW. But this RMAH crap? It's terrible. D3 was designed to make the AH very attractive, and I think it really hurt the game. If the RMAH is successful...then we can look forward to more and more NON-MMORPGs being designed to maximize residual profits, instead of being made to be an awesome game that you just want to buy.
The real smart players sold their items for millions back during the first few weeks of launch when gold was going at 20$ to $40 a mil and made thousands. Market is crap now, just like the game.
Banning overseas IP's would only reduce the problems, IP's can be very easily worked around by way of cheap VPNs popping up all over the place & proxy servers.
If all good stuff is is easy to get through a RMAH, why grind for it for days and days at an end? It's just a simple calculation: "Will I spend 100+ hours on getting these pants or will I pay $2.50?" "Heck, I make $ xx an hour in real life so why even grind for it myself? Grinding is actually much more expensive if I think of it that way."
Now when the PVP module comes out I can see this argument, but in theory by then everyone will have had a reasonable chance to gear up their characters.
Yup, but it doesn't even require competition for this system to defeat a big chunk of the game's purpose: "finding upgrades", as you can simply buy them for just a small fee.
So, the purpose of the game is to spend " 100+ hours " doing things you don't enjoy because you are tempted by the Panties of UberAwesomness? And now you can just buy them for a buck and _not_ waste 100+ hours of your life on activity you don't enjoy... And you somehow consider it a bad thing?
You people are freakin insane.
I'm not even playing it, let alone invented the random carrot driven repetitive gameplay of hack & slashers. Probably you never played one because grinding for drops is exactly what these games used to be about and what made them fun in the past. If you don't enjoy that there's not a single reason to play these games because they offer little else.
Nope. Pure B2P single player game / normal multiplayer or pure P2P mmo give you access to game and only that.
RMT in multiplayer pvp or mmorpg games allow you to gain advantage because you spent more money. Also change game design / concept cause companies want to maximize CS / RMAH sales.
While I am not high-schooler anymore and I have to earn my own living - I am ok with gaining advantage in game through skill or dedication or tactics, etc
and not ok with gaining advantage though spending more $ on uber sword of awensomeness.
So is your problem with just game provided RMT (item shops, etc) or all forms of trade (player 2 player)?. If player to player exchange can occur in the game, RMT will exist. They only way to eliminate RMT (for in-game "stuff") is to make every single attainable item be bind-on-pickup, which would eliminate all trade in the game. Even then there would still be RMT for "services" (boosting, powerlevelling, farming, etc)
No I am not against player-to-player exchange. I actually very much enjoy richand mlaex in-game economy & trade.
Sure that allow RMT.
I am not ideallistic that RMT won't exist. It will. It always will. Even if no player to player trade will exist, people will still RMT whole game accounts.
What I want is that RMT is relatively rarely used and players that do anyway are in risk of losing money by scam or getting banned - so that it is further disencouraged.
It is like for example with cocaine or heroine. No matter what goverments do, illegal drug trade WILL exist. It is impossible to COMPLETLY eradicate it.
Still it is a reason to make cocaine or heroine legal and sell it in malls.
Having RMT used by only small % of players (and those players always in risk) is what I want.
I don't want RMT being integral part of game and thus cheaping play experience and inevitably ruining normal in game economy and severely affecting game design and mechanics.
================
Of course this get more complex in mmo / mmorpg games and not single / co-op games like Diablo.
For example I would be totally ok with things like RMAH / CS in mmorpg's if there would also be separate service avabile to those that don't want it.
If I would have few separate PURE (no CS / RMAH, etc) P2P game servers avabile in mmorpg's - I would have nothing against this certain mmorpg having also F2P / Freemium or RMAH servers.
There is certainly market for those things so if ppl want it - they should have offical RMT's avabile.
Same thing for people that don't like RMT's - then they should have no cash-shop / rmah servers avabile for them.
Of course those players like me would have to pay for example higher subscription. I am ok with paying for example 20$- 22$ for servers without CS / RMAH and all that sort of stuff and GM's banning gold sellers / buyers (even if they would not be able to catch them all obviosuly).
Just options. Since there is no "one ultimate business model" anymore, then I would want more games especially mmorpg's to provide more options / diffrent services for people with diffrent mind-set / expectations.
Freemium (paid expansions / regions + CS + optional subs) is not really solving that problem.
Oh....so this is about turning RMH into a business. LMAO! That is what this was about? OMFG. OK - you are pissed because you were thinking you were going to actually make a business out of this or something huh? That is why you are so upset. LOL! I can't believe you'd actually think you might actually do that or drempt of doing that. Because if you did...
give me a sec....I am finding it hard to type I am laughing so hard.
Had to post and give you +1
I know you guys don't need my help making a point about rmah only realy affecting a player if he/she let it do so.
Tho all these people dissapointed due to their dreams not comming through living off a video game, in the end they are quite humanly. Everyone can have their drams...
The real saddos are those who never even played D3 or dismissed it after a few hours due to not liking a hack and slash video game and all they know is how to spread theories, drama and general negativity even tho nothing of it really affects an active player who enjoys D3 for what it is, a simple hack and slash dungeon crawler with a multiplayer co-op option.
Banning overseas IP's would only reduce the problems, IP's can be very easily worked around by way of cheap VPNs popping up all over the place & proxy servers.
those methods are so easily defeated and countered they don't really need to be considered.
But so what?? If "farmers" have brought market price of Pants of Awesomeness down to $0.99/pair, what difference does it make? You can sell your pair for $0.98 if you want. Just because someone is willing to take a lower price than you doesn't mean something is broken.
Don't you understand? It was his bright idea of business model, to sell Pants of Awesomeness! And now his business model is destroyed by more clever and more industrious people selling cheaper. This is an outrage! It's not how it meant to be! It's me who was going to become rich, not them!
In a related news, I'm going to rage about invention of mass-produced lightbulb and the destruction of my candle-based business model.
I'm not even playing it, let alone invented the random carrot driven repetitive gameplay of hack & slashers. Probably you never played one because grinding for drops is exactly what these games used to be about and what made them fun in the past. If you don't enjoy that there's not a single reason to play these games because they offer little else.
That it's quite positive that people who don't enjoy grind-based model and yet bought the game (due to hype, for example, or being freakin idiots) can skip the grind, no? This way they will not waste countless hours of their lives on the game they don't actually like. And it will also more clearly show the insanity and misery of grind-based game model, and possibly (guy can hope) lessen the amount of Diablo clones in future.
It is fabulous that the prices are low. What makes it right to price it at 20 US Dollars ? It should cost less than a dollar. I mean come on who makes up these silly prices I am glad the RMAH is low ecstatic to be frank.
"This one size-fits-all approach is a by-product of how Blizzard operates: they're perfectionists who've forged an empire from knowing what gamers enjoy better than gamers themselves." - Evan Lahti - PC Gamer
Couldn't say it better.
I don't understand "Blizzard = communists"
Nodobyd will understand, because everything Blizzard does is the antithesis of communism. This whole thing is Capitalism on steroids. All those out there that want to see what no regulation would look like in a capitalist system, this is what you get. You get a few goldfarming/accountstealing groups drop a ton of supply on the market and push everyone else out of business. There is nothing communistic about this, the only people who would think so are those that have no idea what the word means.
Umm, so you're saying that "capitalism" leads to massive supply of goods and low prices? And this is bad.... ?
I am saying that it is the law of supply and demand which is at the heart of capitalism. If it were communism everytime we killed Diablo we would get the exact same gear as everyone else no matter what the difficulty level was and there would be no RMAH auction house in a "communist" game because it goes against the very ethos of communism. I am not claiming that it is good or bad, just that it is the complete opposite of communism.
You guys should really look up what the words "Communism" and "Capitalism" actually mean before throwing them around on forums. Maybe include "Free Market Economy" as well to round things out.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You guys should really look up what the words "Communism" and "Capitalism" actually mean before throwing them around on forums. Maybe include "Free Market Economy" as well to round things out.
I still want to know how this RMT AH is making the game worst than when unoffical sites did the same thing?
It makes it worse because now it's an integral part of the game, and as such, is highly accessible, highly accepted, and even encouraged.
I mean, if you want an analog, compare a legal drug like alcohol to an illegal drug like heroine.
Alcohol is extremely accepted in American society, even to the point of people who don't drink occasionally being ostracized. It's also extremely accessible...there is usually at least one liquor store in every city block. And society definitely encourages alcohol use through relentless advertisements. As such, alcohol is very much a major part of American culture.
Now look at heroine...people who use it are generally called derogitory terms (junkies) and are seen as criminals and a drain on society. In order to acquire heroine you need to risk your own personal safety by purchasing it from the criminal element. And society actively discourages heroine use by putting users in jail. As such, heroine is viewed as a "fringe" part of American culture.
You can apply this analogy to illegal vs. legal gold selling as well.
You have made a very good analogy here. Lets use Alcohol. You could make it illegal (prohibition), and that would make things better, right?
Hmm... As I seem to remember, the results of prohibition was basically crime (both violent and non violent). This seems to match what happens in game as well. Either way, the gold/items get sold. One way it is controlled by society, in the other it is controlled by the criminals.
the entire premise of this topic is a flat out lie.
top end items are currently going for over 100 dollars, many capped at 250. You can get mediocre items for under 10 bucks.
I don't know how this thread has gone on for so long with this BS about floored prices when it's anything but. I'm hoping they go down over the next week, but right now it's ridiculous.
Maybe if you are shopping for level 40 gear it's cheap lol.
the entire premise of this topic is a flat out lie.
top end items are currently going for over 100 dollars, many capped at 250. You can get mediocre items for under 10 bucks.
I don't know how this thread has gone on for so long with this BS about floored prices when it's anything but. I'm hoping they go down over the next week, but right now it's ridiculous.
Maybe if you are shopping for level 40 gear it's cheap lol.
This ^^
There is money to be make if you can farm Inferno Act 3 & 4 .. at least for now.
Comments
So we should be upset that someone has undercut you? So instead of paying you $20 I can pay someone else $1.50, and that is an issue? You do realize that in most of the Eu and US we have free market economies? This happens everyday a new Walmart opens and local business can't compete, but somehow this in your mind has become a gold farmer issue? All I see is the difference in currency valuations between your country and whatever country they are in, and/or their more dedication to playing. You are presuming they are some sort of blight, but have no proof only emotional anger over the fact they have beat your pricing and kept you from being a diablo millionaire.Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Wtf are you talking about games are about playing. They are not about grinding, get a clue alreayd, have you ever grinded playing chess, cards, playing any kind of game ever? If repetitivness is a constant in life and in computer for sure. Well it never was, and never will be "THE POINT OF IT". get a clue alreay, it is a method and a mean, not the goal.
thats called competition driving down prices. 20$ is excenssive it shouldnt cost you 200 to out fit one character.
Weird how on other forums I visit people are doing quite well for what it is (ie if you thought you'd be making a living off of this, you are having bigger problems but it's still funny that you're complaining others are). But on MMORPG terms like DESTROYED are thrown around again. This is like the session hack and ah clock exploit right?
So, the purpose of the game is to spend " 100+ hours " doing things you don't enjoy because you are tempted by the Panties of UberAwesomness? And now you can just buy them for a buck and _not_ waste 100+ hours of your life on activity you don't enjoy... And you somehow consider it a bad thing?
You people are freakin insane.
The real smart players sold their items for millions back during the first few weeks of launch when gold was going at 20$ to $40 a mil and made thousands. Market is crap now, just like the game.
Banning overseas IP's would only reduce the problems, IP's can be very easily worked around by way of cheap VPNs popping up all over the place & proxy servers.
called donating with a bonus should get tax right off for it. if u cant beat them or cut them might well join them.
I'm not even playing it, let alone invented the random carrot driven repetitive gameplay of hack & slashers. Probably you never played one because grinding for drops is exactly what these games used to be about and what made them fun in the past. If you don't enjoy that there's not a single reason to play these games because they offer little else.
My brand new bloggity blog.
No I am not against player-to-player exchange. I actually very much enjoy richand mlaex in-game economy & trade.
Sure that allow RMT.
I am not ideallistic that RMT won't exist. It will. It always will. Even if no player to player trade will exist, people will still RMT whole game accounts.
What I want is that RMT is relatively rarely used and players that do anyway are in risk of losing money by scam or getting banned - so that it is further disencouraged.
It is like for example with cocaine or heroine. No matter what goverments do, illegal drug trade WILL exist. It is impossible to COMPLETLY eradicate it.
Still it is a reason to make cocaine or heroine legal and sell it in malls.
Having RMT used by only small % of players (and those players always in risk) is what I want.
I don't want RMT being integral part of game and thus cheaping play experience and inevitably ruining normal in game economy and severely affecting game design and mechanics.
================
Of course this get more complex in mmo / mmorpg games and not single / co-op games like Diablo.
For example I would be totally ok with things like RMAH / CS in mmorpg's if there would also be separate service avabile to those that don't want it.
If I would have few separate PURE (no CS / RMAH, etc) P2P game servers avabile in mmorpg's - I would have nothing against this certain mmorpg having also F2P / Freemium or RMAH servers.
There is certainly market for those things so if ppl want it - they should have offical RMT's avabile.
Same thing for people that don't like RMT's - then they should have no cash-shop / rmah servers avabile for them.
Of course those players like me would have to pay for example higher subscription. I am ok with paying for example 20$- 22$ for servers without CS / RMAH and all that sort of stuff and GM's banning gold sellers / buyers (even if they would not be able to catch them all obviosuly).
Just options. Since there is no "one ultimate business model" anymore, then I would want more games especially mmorpg's to provide more options / diffrent services for people with diffrent mind-set / expectations.
Freemium (paid expansions / regions + CS + optional subs) is not really solving that problem.
fin.
Had to post and give you +1
I know you guys don't need my help making a point about rmah only realy affecting a player if he/she let it do so.
Tho all these people dissapointed due to their dreams not comming through living off a video game, in the end they are quite humanly. Everyone can have their drams...
The real saddos are those who never even played D3 or dismissed it after a few hours due to not liking a hack and slash video game and all they know is how to spread theories, drama and general negativity even tho nothing of it really affects an active player who enjoys D3 for what it is, a simple hack and slash dungeon crawler with a multiplayer co-op option.
those methods are so easily defeated and countered they don't really need to be considered.
Don't you understand? It was his bright idea of business model, to sell Pants of Awesomeness! And now his business model is destroyed by more clever and more industrious people selling cheaper. This is an outrage! It's not how it meant to be! It's me who was going to become rich, not them!
In a related news, I'm going to rage about invention of mass-produced lightbulb and the destruction of my candle-based business model.
That it's quite positive that people who don't enjoy grind-based model and yet bought the game (due to hype, for example, or being freakin idiots) can skip the grind, no? This way they will not waste countless hours of their lives on the game they don't actually like. And it will also more clearly show the insanity and misery of grind-based game model, and possibly (guy can hope) lessen the amount of Diablo clones in future.
It is fabulous that the prices are low. What makes it right to price it at 20 US Dollars ? It should cost less than a dollar. I mean come on who makes up these silly prices I am glad the RMAH is low ecstatic to be frank.
I am saying that it is the law of supply and demand which is at the heart of capitalism. If it were communism everytime we killed Diablo we would get the exact same gear as everyone else no matter what the difficulty level was and there would be no RMAH auction house in a "communist" game because it goes against the very ethos of communism. I am not claiming that it is good or bad, just that it is the complete opposite of communism.
You guys should really look up what the words "Communism" and "Capitalism" actually mean before throwing them around on forums. Maybe include "Free Market Economy" as well to round things out.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
+1
You have made a very good analogy here. Lets use Alcohol. You could make it illegal (prohibition), and that would make things better, right?
Hmm... As I seem to remember, the results of prohibition was basically crime (both violent and non violent). This seems to match what happens in game as well. Either way, the gold/items get sold. One way it is controlled by society, in the other it is controlled by the criminals.
the entire premise of this topic is a flat out lie.
top end items are currently going for over 100 dollars, many capped at 250. You can get mediocre items for under 10 bucks.
I don't know how this thread has gone on for so long with this BS about floored prices when it's anything but. I'm hoping they go down over the next week, but right now it's ridiculous.
Maybe if you are shopping for level 40 gear it's cheap lol.
Play the game and do not use the AH. All issues resolved.
This ^^
There is money to be make if you can farm Inferno Act 3 & 4 .. at least for now.