I think the combat is fair. I don't get the comments about it being awful or somehow simplistic compared to other mmos. On the other hand nothing about it stands out either and it seems pretty standard stuff to me. Definitely not a high point of the game but it also isn't a detractor as well.
Random Comment: Would have been cool if they had fatalities like AOC imo
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by Draemos Originally posted by ShakyMo Combat is not bad.
It's not as good as some games - gw2, Aoc, planetside, probably tera but I've not played that.
To me its better combat than wow & swtor
How anyone can say bad combat though I don't know - bad combat is stuff like lotro, sto & rift.
Because it's being compared to the other MMOs that are just being released (or close to it), specifically Tera and GW2... both which have significantly better combat and significantly better animations in my opinion.
It also doesn't have better combat than SWTOR or WoW, mostly because of sloppy targeting, mob AI and pathing.
TSW has really good excel sheet/theory crafting combat for things like figuring out the best synergy. A year or two ago that might have been enough, but the demographic for people that dig that sort of stuff is small and strinking.
^^fixed it for you.
I think Tera (*giggles*) and GW2 have significantly worse animations, because, unlike you, I'm not a fan of overly dramatic animations and "lightshow" effects. I also don't like technicolor worlds that are filled with rainbow and neon colors just because they can be. I actively dislike Tera's art style, whereas GW2's art style I just find too "rich". It gives me "visual heartburn".
But that's just my opinion
No. That's like saying 80s movies have better effects because you don't like CGI. You might not like the style, but that has nothing to do with the actual quality.
I spent a good portion of yesterday reviewing the official forums and reading how its not the "combat" that a lot of people don't like its the combat "animations" such as found in this video:
the way its played and the way the people complaining about the combat played it makes it feel static and like every other OLD mmorpg. No real need to move, and the movement animations look like old school grand theft auto, and you just rotate thru skills and wait for the mob to die. Rinse and repeat. yes compared to OLDER GAMES this is nothing new and fine but this game is releasing with extreme competition on the market that are providing much better combat animations and character animations.
Now as is widely known on the official forums FUNCOM is saying that the animations we are all complaining about are palceholders. Which if you have deductive reasoning you can see that FUNCON did not intend for these animations to be the release ones and understand that people do not like them there for they are implimenting animation changes.
I agree with those who said that the only complaints about this game are animations and combat animations and such. Because those are my only gripes with the game and knowing that they were placeholders this might be my sub game that I play when I'm bored with Guild Wars 2. Though I don't think that would leave much time, who knows.
The day and age of standing still or strafing and spamming skills is dieing and thank god it is. Since players have had a chance to play the other releases and or soon to be released games they have started to change what they expect from a 2012 release game, simple as that. You may refuse to understand but the fact of the matter is, FUNCOM is addressing it on their official forums so even though you may not "Get it" atleast the company does. This is why I'm testing it once again this weekend because if they did improve the combat animations I may be ablidged to enjoy this fine game.
I spent a good portion of yesterday reviewing the official forums and reading how its not the "combat" that a lot of people don't like its the combat "animations" such as found in this video:
the way its played and the way the people complaining about the combat played it makes it feel static and like every other OLD mmorpg. No real need to move, and the movement animations look like old school grand theft auto, and you just rotate thru skills and wait for the mob to die. Rinse and repeat. yes compared to OLDER GAMES this is nothing new and fine but this game is releasing with extreme competition on the market that are providing much better combat animations and character animations.
Now as is widely known on the official forums FUNCOM is saying that the animations we are all complaining about are palceholders. Which if you have deductive reasoning you can see that FUNCON did not intend for these animations to be the release ones and understand that people do not like them there for they are implimenting animation changes.
I agree with those who said that the only complaints about this game are animations and combat animations and such. Because those are my only gripes with the game and knowing that they were placeholders this might be my sub game that I play when I'm bored with Guild Wars 2. Though I don't think that would leave much time, who knows.
The day and age of standing still or strafing and spamming skills is dieing and thank god it is. Since players have had a chance to play the other releases and or soon to be released games they have started to change what they expect from a 2012 release game, simple as that. You may refuse to understand but the fact of the matter is, FUNCOM is addressing it on their official forums so even though you may not "Get it" atleast the company does. This is why I'm testing it once again this weekend because if they did improve the combat animations I may be ablidged to enjoy this fine game.
I repsect how you feel. I don't agree, but I can respect it.
The video is may 19th. thats was beta build 0.7 (maybe 8 but BWE are usually 1 behind) The release build is being test now, 1.0. There are independent animations for about 350 animations (numbers are rough) now. I would assume it's safe to say 90% of the place holders are gone at this point. I don't know what more can be done.
I personally couldn't ask for more. I'm just a gamer though. Like all mmos, the job is never done.
I spent a good portion of yesterday reviewing the official forums and reading how its not the "combat" that a lot of people don't like its the combat "animations" such as found in this video:
the way its played and the way the people complaining about the combat played it makes it feel static and like every other OLD mmorpg. No real need to move, and the movement animations look like old school grand theft auto, and you just rotate thru skills and wait for the mob to die. Rinse and repeat. yes compared to OLDER GAMES this is nothing new and fine but this game is releasing with extreme competition on the market that are providing much better combat animations and character animations.
Now as is widely known on the official forums FUNCOM is saying that the animations we are all complaining about are palceholders. Which if you have deductive reasoning you can see that FUNCON did not intend for these animations to be the release ones and understand that people do not like them there for they are implimenting animation changes.
I agree with those who said that the only complaints about this game are animations and combat animations and such. Because those are my only gripes with the game and knowing that they were placeholders this might be my sub game that I play when I'm bored with Guild Wars 2. Though I don't think that would leave much time, who knows.
The day and age of standing still or strafing and spamming skills is dieing and thank god it is. Since players have had a chance to play the other releases and or soon to be released games they have started to change what they expect from a 2012 release game, simple as that. You may refuse to understand but the fact of the matter is, FUNCOM is addressing it on their official forums so even though you may not "Get it" atleast the company does. This is why I'm testing it once again this weekend because if they did improve the combat animations I may be ablidged to enjoy this fine game.
That video is a great example on combat animations that are not so great.
combat for me seem exactly the same with a bad dodge mechanic, compared last beta. people keep saying combat have improve a lot (the reason why i try beta again), i didnt see any change, excep the add of a dodge bar
Combat was a lot smoother this time around thats for sure... the added active dodge mechanic was a bit dodgy and was never really needed but the rest of the combat was a lot better than the first beta weekend..
Lots of people are saying the animations are placeholders. If this is indeed true, if they managed to fix the animations for release *and* PvP is fun this coming weekend I might jump on this instead of GW2.
That video is a great example on combat animations that are not so great.
Again That video is from build 0.7, build 1.0 is now being tested. Personaly I didn't think those were "bad." Are they better now? Yes without question.
Lots of people are saying the animations are placeholders. If this is indeed true, if they managed to fix the animations for release *and* PvP is fun this coming weekend I might jump on this instead of GW2.
they did fix a lot of them but overall if you hated the system anytime testing it in the last month or so you wont like it at launch.. overall I find it acceptable but could have a better feel and I wish they went more survival horror esque instead but oh well.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Lots of people are saying the animations are placeholders. If this is indeed true, if they managed to fix the animations for release *and* PvP is fun this coming weekend I might jump on this instead of GW2.
It's not as good as some games - gw2, Aoc, planetside, probably tera but I've not played that.
To me its better combat than wow & swtor
How anyone can say bad combat though I don't know - bad combat is stuff like lotro, sto & rift.
I agree it could be better especially coming from the people who did AoC which I think is why it generates so much hate but I do enjoy it a ton better than swtor, lotro, and similar games.
Seconded. Animations and the "uncanny valley" are the big problems, but combat requires more than just "stand in 1 place and use rotation". Effective at first, but not so later on and i have a feeling that, since the game has collision detection and LOS, pulling that of in pvp will only get you killed alot faster.
It's not action combat like TERA adn Vindictus, FPS like PS2 and not GW2 or AOC, but i prefer it over traditional system. Besides, while combat is a big part of the game, it's not what i care about in TSW.
Lots of people are saying the animations are placeholders. If this is indeed true, if they managed to fix the animations for release *and* PvP is fun this coming weekend I might jump on this instead of GW2.
they did fix a lot of them but overall if you hated the system anytime testing it in the last month or so you wont like it at launch.. overall I find it acceptable but could have a better feel and I wish they went more survival horror esque instead but oh well.
I can agree with that. The style has not changed, but a lot has been added.
Interesting, what do you mean about "more survival horror esque."
It's not as good as some games - gw2, Aoc, planetside, probably tera but I've not played that.
To me its better combat than wow & swtor
How anyone can say bad combat though I don't know - bad combat is stuff like lotro, sto & rift.
I agree it could be better especially coming from the people who did AoC which I think is why it generates so much hate but I do enjoy it a ton better than swtor, lotro, and similar games.
Seconded. Animations and the "uncanny valley" are the big problems, but combat requires more than just "stand in 1 place and use rotation". Effective at first, but not so later on and i have a feeling that, since the game has collision detection and LOS, pulling that of in pvp will only get you killed alot faster.
It's not action combat like TERA adn Vindictus, FPS like PS2 and not GW2 or AOC, but i prefer it over traditional system. Besides, while combat is a big part of the game, it's not what i care about in TSW.
I was putting the pound down on this guy and he was running. I charged and cornered him for about 2 seconds I saw the fear in his face! Then he died
I think the combat is amazing. I pvp and do it a lot. All my attacks have different animations, I see blood, I see on my enemy where I stike and shoot, plus I have 525 different abilities to build with.
Wtf does "The combat is bad mean." I think it's the most stupid undescript pseudo critique possible to give. It seem like that statement was cooked up in some corporate lab to discredit this dynimo of a genre changing game.
This and animimation are the ONLY critiques of TSW, and neither can be proved or disproved. What a crock of crap.
aah got that off my chest. Have a wonderful evening
If you look at the combat GW2 combat is actually a dumbed down version of TSW which is more advanced combat system that plays the same at a base level.
Nothing wrong with the combat in TSW don't know why there is hate.
I think the combat is amazing. I pvp and do it a lot. All my attacks have different animations, I see blood, I see on my enemy where I stike and shoot, plus I have 525 different abilities to build with.
Wtf does "The combat is bad mean." I think it's the most stupid undescript pseudo critique possible to give. It seem like that statement was cooked up in some corporate lab to discredit this dynimo of a genre changing game.
This and animimation are the ONLY critiques of TSW, and neither can be proved or disproved. What a crock of crap.
aah got that off my chest. Have a wonderful evening
If you look at the combat GW2 combat is actually a dumbed down version of TSW which is more advanced combat system that plays the same at a base level.
Nothing wrong with the combat in TSW don't know why there is hate.
I think the combat is amazing. I pvp and do it a lot. All my attacks have different animations, I see blood, I see on my enemy where I stike and shoot, plus I have 525 different abilities to build with.
Wtf does "The combat is bad mean." I think it's the most stupid undescript pseudo critique possible to give. It seem like that statement was cooked up in some corporate lab to discredit this dynimo of a genre changing game.
This and animimation are the ONLY critiques of TSW, and neither can be proved or disproved. What a crock of crap.
aah got that off my chest. Have a wonderful evening
If you look at the combat GW2 combat is actually a dumbed down version of TSW which is more advanced combat system that plays the same at a base level.
Nothing wrong with the combat in TSW don't know why there is hate.
Because some people hate FC and will do everything they can do bash the game, others support a different fanatsy game and feel threatened so the same people come here over and over and bash the game.
I spent a good portion of yesterday reviewing the official forums and reading how its not the "combat" that a lot of people don't like its the combat "animations" such as found in this video:
the way its played and the way the people complaining about the combat played it makes it feel static and like every other OLD mmorpg. No real need to move, and the movement animations look like old school grand theft auto, and you just rotate thru skills and wait for the mob to die. Rinse and repeat. yes compared to OLDER GAMES this is nothing new and fine but this game is releasing with extreme competition on the market that are providing much better combat animations and character animations.
Now as is widely known on the official forums FUNCOM is saying that the animations we are all complaining about are palceholders. Which if you have deductive reasoning you can see that FUNCON did not intend for these animations to be the release ones and understand that people do not like them there for they are implimenting animation changes.
I agree with those who said that the only complaints about this game are animations and combat animations and such. Because those are my only gripes with the game and knowing that they were placeholders this might be my sub game that I play when I'm bored with Guild Wars 2. Though I don't think that would leave much time, who knows.
The day and age of standing still or strafing and spamming skills is dieing and thank god it is. Since players have had a chance to play the other releases and or soon to be released games they have started to change what they expect from a 2012 release game, simple as that. You may refuse to understand but the fact of the matter is, FUNCOM is addressing it on their official forums so even though you may not "Get it" atleast the company does. This is why I'm testing it once again this weekend because if they did improve the combat animations I may be ablidged to enjoy this fine game.
I repsect how you feel. I don't agree, but I can respect it.
The video is may 19th. thats was beta build 0.7 (maybe 8 but BWE are usually 1 behind) The release build is being test now, 1.0. There are independent animations for about 350 animations (numbers are rough) now. I would assume it's safe to say 90% of the place holders are gone at this point. I don't know what more can be done.
I personally couldn't ask for more. I'm just a gamer though. Like all mmos, the job is never done.
Thank you for respecting how, not only I feel but how many many people feel. It really doesn't matter if you agree BECAUSE FUNCOM DOES!!! which is why they acted upon the many, many complaints about this very thing by removing the placeholders. Many of us feel the same way and I just provided a little proof as to why because you seemed so ackwardly confused as to why some of us are not happy with 9 year old animations.
What blows my mind is nobody has tested the new animations and keep saying animations for hundreds of blah blah blah, people didn't seem to understand it isn't the combat skill system that is being hated on its the animations and you had NO REACTION to that argument aside from "I don't agree" until I pointed out that the "placeholders" are being removed. Until the new animations are tested a lot of us will still have that bad 9 year old animation taste in our mouth. Jumping, moving, and others
Nobody is asking for anything else then for FUNCOM to give us animations that aren't 9 years old and dated. A lot of us can accept the fact that the combat is static aside from a few encounters when you need to back step.
Your quotes and I showed examples to prove why there are complaints of the animations. "Wtf does "The combat is bad mean." "neither can be proved or disproved."
You seriously made me slap my forhead... WTH dude you acted like you completely had no clue why a lot of people all over the interwebs, on the official forums and even here feel that the combat is horrible(combat animation) I provided some examples of why I felt this way and added that they are changing it so if we test it and its changed then its fixed. I repeat - YOU DO NOT HAVE TO AGREE because Funcom does agree which is why they are removing the placeholders and announced it on their official forums as soon as they seen the hundreds of complaints.
True the job is never done when it comes to online games but when the job isn't done in the first place and placeholders that are awful are put in place without telling customers, all they can do is compare to market competition, then a lot of gamers will complain because they want to justify the price to play a game that is sub par to others in certain aspects. Me personally if the game play stays the way it is with the 9 year old animations I can't justify paying to play it but if its fixed heck ya I'll be all over this like stink on well you get my drift; which is why I'm anticipating a show of this fix this weekend.
I personally can't wait to see because like I stated in my post before if they fix this, TSW will be my SUB game while I play GW2.
Lots of people are saying the animations are placeholders. If this is indeed true, if they managed to fix the animations for release *and* PvP is fun this coming weekend I might jump on this instead of GW2.
they did fix a lot of them but overall if you hated the system anytime testing it in the last month or so you wont like it at launch.. overall I find it acceptable but could have a better feel and I wish they went more survival horror esque instead but oh well.
If you just disliked the lack of feedback from the mobs, it's fixed in the current version. The feedback is a lot better. Personally I am very gameplay focused, so I didn't see what people ment by feedback being bad. After seeing the first beta weekend videos vs the current beta weekend videos I do see a huge difference.
I doubt that they will "fix" the animations by launch. They might make them a bit smoother and flow a little better, but nothing huge is changing. Most of the animations now are probably final now. I compared the running animation to the one in Battlefield 3 and what hits me is that the animation in TSW looks too rigid.
Back to my comment on gameplay - does the game work? Is it fun? Am I distracted by the animations while playing? For me, it's a huge no. I really couldn't care less. I spend much more time looking at the mobs or the environment, both of which I think looks fantastic. The huge bug-eyed things with wings lying there dead on the ground with their tongue lolling out of their mouth are just awesome.
For me, the combat is lively with lots of decision making needed for the optimal fight and when I get an add or two, you really have to use all of your abilities to stay alive. Before combat I have lots of fun browsing through the abilities looking for fun builds. To me combat in TSW is very well made.
Lots of people are saying the animations are placeholders. If this is indeed true, if they managed to fix the animations for release *and* PvP is fun this coming weekend I might jump on this instead of GW2.
they did fix a lot of them but overall if you hated the system anytime testing it in the last month or so you wont like it at launch.. overall I find it acceptable but could have a better feel and I wish they went more survival horror esque instead but oh well.
I can agree with that. The style has not changed, but a lot has been added.
Interesting, what do you mean about "more survival horror esque."
survival horror esque look at games like Alan Wake or the early silent hills where it's more gritty combat all the enemies are pretty strong and even one zombie type could take you out if not careful. Right now its basic AOE mow down the easy guys and concentrate on the hard one type for solo play. Also the weight of weapons still doesn't translate well for instance carrying a sword and swinging it doesn't feel any differn't than carry around a giant lead pipe and swinging it around.
Having it more survival type would add more to the feel of the zones and add greatly to the immersion of the game like it does in those survival horror type games... that's not the direction they went and what is there I'm ok with but t still could be better.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
It's not as good as some games - gw2, Aoc, planetside, probably tera but I've not played that.
To me its better combat than wow & swtor
How anyone can say bad combat though I don't know - bad combat is stuff like lotro, sto & rift.
I agree it could be better especially coming from the people who did AoC which I think is why it generates so much hate but I do enjoy it a ton better than swtor, lotro, and similar games.
Seconded. Animations and the "uncanny valley" are the big problems, but combat requires more than just "stand in 1 place and use rotation". Effective at first, but not so later on and i have a feeling that, since the game has collision detection and LOS, pulling that of in pvp will only get you killed alot faster.
It's not action combat like TERA adn Vindictus, FPS like PS2 and not GW2 or AOC, but i prefer it over traditional system. Besides, while combat is a big part of the game, it's not what i care about in TSW.
I agree that choosing a almost real art style or "uncanny valley" does make animation disconnects feel larger than games that go with a totally different art style. I felt the same way about Morrowind/Obvilion/Skyrim although I think in all three of those games animations connect better than in TSW.
With only 7 active abilities at one time there is only so complicated they can make the combat. It would be fine if you could switch builds on the fly but you can't. So regradless of how deep the ability wheel is your only getting to use 7 active items off it at one time. Add on top of that the need to have builders and spenders and the options for creative rotations gets pretty limitied.
Maybe you don't care about combat in TSW and thats ok but it is what you will be spending the large majority of your time doing. It is odd to me that the weakest part of the game is also the part you spend the most time doing. Was combat just something that the developers figured they would get around to after they polish the rest of the game and just ran out of time?
Edit: I have worked with a lot of developers in my time and I can totaly see that. They tend to like to chase shiny balls and hate doing stuff they have done before. So if you gave a developer a choice between designing a classless ability wheel or polish a combat system most would take the shiny ball ability wheel anyday.
4. It feels like a single player experience for the most part
So what happens when someone starts a thread that says the combat is awesome and amazing? I think back to my experience playing the game and wonder how someone with a rational mind could believe that the combat was awesome and amazing. When someone calls GW2 combat a dumbed down version of TSW combat I just scratch my head and toss it aside. It's just a silly claim and everyone that has played both games knows this.
People have come forward (very intense fans of TSW) and attempted to spin combat to a place where it owns all other MMORPGs in the combat department. I would just recommend that you guys start concentrating on the real positives of this game.
1. Great Atmosphere
2. Modern Setting
3. Interesting Questing
4. Less linear than other story driven MMORPGs
5. Puzzles
I mean hell, it was better when you guys were claiming people didn't like it because they were too stupid to understand it. At least then you are focusing on one of the game's strengths - puzzles.
survival horror esque look at games like Alan Wake or the early silent hills where it's more gritty combat all the enemies are pretty strong and even one zombie type could take you out if not careful. Right now its basic AOE mow down the easy guys and concentrate on the hard one type for solo play.
I don't think that would go over well. Works great for a single player game but an mmo? Maybe if people were prone to grouping like in EQ but in this day and age people would go apeshit if it was that easy to die.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
It's not as good as some games - gw2, Aoc, planetside, probably tera but I've not played that.
To me its better combat than wow & swtor
How anyone can say bad combat though I don't know - bad combat is stuff like lotro, sto & rift.
I agree it could be better especially coming from the people who did AoC which I think is why it generates so much hate but I do enjoy it a ton better than swtor, lotro, and similar games.
Seconded. Animations and the "uncanny valley" are the big problems, but combat requires more than just "stand in 1 place and use rotation". Effective at first, but not so later on and i have a feeling that, since the game has collision detection and LOS, pulling that of in pvp will only get you killed alot faster.
It's not action combat like TERA adn Vindictus, FPS like PS2 and not GW2 or AOC, but i prefer it over traditional system. Besides, while combat is a big part of the game, it's not what i care about in TSW.
I agree that choosing a almost real art style or "uncanny valley" does make animation disconnects feel larger than games that go with a totally different art style. I felt the same way about Morrowind/Obvilion/Skyrim although I think in all three of those games animations connect better than in TSW.
Maybe you don't care about combat in TSW and thats ok but it is what you will be spending the large majority of your time doing. It is odd to me that the weakest part of the game is also the part you spend the most time doing. Was combat just something that the developers figured they would get around to after they polish the rest of the game and just ran out of time?
I agree with the comparison you gave of the gaves you mentioned.
WIth what you said about the dev's working on polishing other things first: From what I gathered on the official forums this is actually true, they put place holders as animations until they were ready with nearly everything else then put in the animations they intended and or polished.
I think if they indicated this to their customers before letting them into the game more of us would have accepted it a lot easier. For instance ANET told everyone what to expect the game to run primarily on during the BWE's so that most people understood it wouldn't look or perform exactly like it would upon further optimization. Funcom waited until tons of complaints hit the interwebs and then they back peddled and were like "it'll be fixed, they are just place holders, don't worry" a little to late for a lot of people.
Personally since it wont hurt or cost anything to test it again, I'm excited to see if its improved.
In tsw you are not how public you are a "superhero" if sorts, you get gifted powers by gaia to be imortal, use anima powered magic, channel that magic using things like guns, be able to find, use and enter agartha and also have resistance to the filth.
So it doesn't need to be like re, silent hill, Alan wake etc..
It's not as good as some games - gw2, Aoc, planetside, probably tera but I've not played that.
To me its better combat than wow & swtor
How anyone can say bad combat though I don't know - bad combat is stuff like lotro, sto & rift.
I agree it could be better especially coming from the people who did AoC which I think is why it generates so much hate but I do enjoy it a ton better than swtor, lotro, and similar games.
Seconded. Animations and the "uncanny valley" are the big problems, but combat requires more than just "stand in 1 place and use rotation". Effective at first, but not so later on and i have a feeling that, since the game has collision detection and LOS, pulling that of in pvp will only get you killed alot faster.
It's not action combat like TERA adn Vindictus, FPS like PS2 and not GW2 or AOC, but i prefer it over traditional system. Besides, while combat is a big part of the game, it's not what i care about in TSW.
I agree that choosing a almost real art style or "uncanny valley" does make animation disconnects feel larger than games that go with a totally different art style. I felt the same way about Morrowind/Obvilion/Skyrim although I think in all three of those games animations connect better than in TSW.
With only 7 active abilities at one time there is only so complicated they can make the combat. It would be fine if you could switch builds on the fly but you can't. So regradless of how deep the ability wheel is your only getting to use 7 active items off it at one time. Add on top of that the need to have builders and spenders and the options for creative rotations gets pretty limitied.
Maybe you don't care about combat in TSW and thats ok but it is what you will be spending the large majority of your time doing. It is odd to me that the weakest part of the game is also the part you spend the most time doing. Was combat just something that the developers figured they would get around to after they polish the rest of the game and just ran out of time?
Edit: I have worked with a lot of developers in my time and I can totaly see that. They tend to like to chase shiny balls and hate doing stuff they have done before. So if you gave a developer a choice between designing a classless ability wheel or polish a combat system most would take the shiny ball ability wheel anyday.
By only allowing 7, it makes the build counter build meta game. Remeber when Blizaard said we want you to make "meaninful choices," The TSW system is what they were talking about.
I played a Lock for 5 years in WoW. 3 of wwhich were afflictions. I can still do the rotation in my sleep... Life tap, haunt, UA, Coruption, Shadow bolt filler, rinse and repeat. That's 5 buttons plus cooldowns and pots for about 7 total buttons for my dps roatation.
I created something similar in TSW just to see if I could do it. It wasn't easy and it took a lot of trial an error to craft an effective build with a 6 button rotation. I love this. I love that I had to trim the fat and make something out of nothing. 7 and 7 is the 5hit imo
Side not while messing with a block build, I was using "Stone Wall" a hammer defensive CD that increases block my 40% I coupled that with a passive that cause a knock down on block. I effectively created a new active ability. When I activated Stone Wall I would get a knock down Cool stuff if you ask me
Comments
Both extremes are a head scratcher to me.
I think the combat is fair. I don't get the comments about it being awful or somehow simplistic compared to other mmos. On the other hand nothing about it stands out either and it seems pretty standard stuff to me. Definitely not a high point of the game but it also isn't a detractor as well.
Random Comment: Would have been cool if they had fatalities like AOC imo
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Because it's being compared to the other MMOs that are just being released (or close to it), specifically Tera and GW2... both which have significantly better combat and significantly better animations in my opinion.
It also doesn't have better combat than SWTOR or WoW, mostly because of sloppy targeting, mob AI and pathing.
TSW has really good excel sheet/theory crafting combat for things like figuring out the best synergy. A year or two ago that might have been enough, but the demographic for people that dig that sort of stuff is small and strinking.
^^fixed it for you.
I think Tera (*giggles*) and GW2 have significantly worse animations, because, unlike you, I'm not a fan of overly dramatic animations and "lightshow" effects. I also don't like technicolor worlds that are filled with rainbow and neon colors just because they can be. I actively dislike Tera's art style, whereas GW2's art style I just find too "rich". It gives me "visual heartburn".
But that's just my opinion
No. That's like saying 80s movies have better effects because you don't like CGI. You might not like the style, but that has nothing to do with the actual quality.I spent a good portion of yesterday reviewing the official forums and reading how its not the "combat" that a lot of people don't like its the combat "animations" such as found in this video:
Combat Animations
What it looked like to me was a lot like this: Old Combat Animations and Movement Animations what I'm talking about is until 3:10. Its just old feeling, 9 years old.
the way its played and the way the people complaining about the combat played it makes it feel static and like every other OLD mmorpg. No real need to move, and the movement animations look like old school grand theft auto, and you just rotate thru skills and wait for the mob to die. Rinse and repeat. yes compared to OLDER GAMES this is nothing new and fine but this game is releasing with extreme competition on the market that are providing much better combat animations and character animations.
Now as is widely known on the official forums FUNCOM is saying that the animations we are all complaining about are palceholders. Which if you have deductive reasoning you can see that FUNCON did not intend for these animations to be the release ones and understand that people do not like them there for they are implimenting animation changes.
I agree with those who said that the only complaints about this game are animations and combat animations and such. Because those are my only gripes with the game and knowing that they were placeholders this might be my sub game that I play when I'm bored with Guild Wars 2. Though I don't think that would leave much time, who knows.
The day and age of standing still or strafing and spamming skills is dieing and thank god it is. Since players have had a chance to play the other releases and or soon to be released games they have started to change what they expect from a 2012 release game, simple as that. You may refuse to understand but the fact of the matter is, FUNCOM is addressing it on their official forums so even though you may not "Get it" atleast the company does. This is why I'm testing it once again this weekend because if they did improve the combat animations I may be ablidged to enjoy this fine game.
I repsect how you feel. I don't agree, but I can respect it.
The video is may 19th. thats was beta build 0.7 (maybe 8 but BWE are usually 1 behind) The release build is being test now, 1.0. There are independent animations for about 350 animations (numbers are rough) now. I would assume it's safe to say 90% of the place holders are gone at this point. I don't know what more can be done.
I personally couldn't ask for more. I'm just a gamer though. Like all mmos, the job is never done.
That video is a great example on combat animations that are not so great.
Combat was a lot smoother this time around thats for sure... the added active dodge mechanic was a bit dodgy and was never really needed but the rest of the combat was a lot better than the first beta weekend..
Lots of people are saying the animations are placeholders. If this is indeed true, if they managed to fix the animations for release *and* PvP is fun this coming weekend I might jump on this instead of GW2.
Again That video is from build 0.7, build 1.0 is now being tested. Personaly I didn't think those were "bad." Are they better now? Yes without question.
they did fix a lot of them but overall if you hated the system anytime testing it in the last month or so you wont like it at launch.. overall I find it acceptable but could have a better feel and I wish they went more survival horror esque instead but oh well.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
The game is releasing in less than a month.
Seconded. Animations and the "uncanny valley" are the big problems, but combat requires more than just "stand in 1 place and use rotation". Effective at first, but not so later on and i have a feeling that, since the game has collision detection and LOS, pulling that of in pvp will only get you killed alot faster.
It's not action combat like TERA adn Vindictus, FPS like PS2 and not GW2 or AOC, but i prefer it over traditional system. Besides, while combat is a big part of the game, it's not what i care about in TSW.
I can agree with that. The style has not changed, but a lot has been added.
Interesting, what do you mean about "more survival horror esque."
I was putting the pound down on this guy and he was running. I charged and cornered him for about 2 seconds I saw the fear in his face! Then he died
If you look at the combat GW2 combat is actually a dumbed down version of TSW which is more advanced combat system that plays the same at a base level.
Nothing wrong with the combat in TSW don't know why there is hate.
Streching reality much?
Its all opinions at the end of the day.
Because some people hate FC and will do everything they can do bash the game, others support a different fanatsy game and feel threatened so the same people come here over and over and bash the game.
Thank you for respecting how, not only I feel but how many many people feel. It really doesn't matter if you agree BECAUSE FUNCOM DOES!!! which is why they acted upon the many, many complaints about this very thing by removing the placeholders. Many of us feel the same way and I just provided a little proof as to why because you seemed so ackwardly confused as to why some of us are not happy with 9 year old animations.
What blows my mind is nobody has tested the new animations and keep saying animations for hundreds of blah blah blah, people didn't seem to understand it isn't the combat skill system that is being hated on its the animations and you had NO REACTION to that argument aside from "I don't agree" until I pointed out that the "placeholders" are being removed. Until the new animations are tested a lot of us will still have that bad 9 year old animation taste in our mouth. Jumping, moving, and others
Nobody is asking for anything else then for FUNCOM to give us animations that aren't 9 years old and dated. A lot of us can accept the fact that the combat is static aside from a few encounters when you need to back step.
Your quotes and I showed examples to prove why there are complaints of the animations.
"Wtf does "The combat is bad mean." "neither can be proved or disproved."
You seriously made me slap my forhead... WTH dude you acted like you completely had no clue why a lot of people all over the interwebs, on the official forums and even here feel that the combat is horrible(combat animation) I provided some examples of why I felt this way and added that they are changing it so if we test it and its changed then its fixed. I repeat - YOU DO NOT HAVE TO AGREE because Funcom does agree which is why they are removing the placeholders and announced it on their official forums as soon as they seen the hundreds of complaints.
True the job is never done when it comes to online games but when the job isn't done in the first place and placeholders that are awful are put in place without telling customers, all they can do is compare to market competition, then a lot of gamers will complain because they want to justify the price to play a game that is sub par to others in certain aspects. Me personally if the game play stays the way it is with the 9 year old animations I can't justify paying to play it but if its fixed heck ya I'll be all over this like stink on well you get my drift; which is why I'm anticipating a show of this fix this weekend.
I personally can't wait to see because like I stated in my post before if they fix this, TSW will be my SUB game while I play GW2.
If you just disliked the lack of feedback from the mobs, it's fixed in the current version. The feedback is a lot better. Personally I am very gameplay focused, so I didn't see what people ment by feedback being bad. After seeing the first beta weekend videos vs the current beta weekend videos I do see a huge difference.
I doubt that they will "fix" the animations by launch. They might make them a bit smoother and flow a little better, but nothing huge is changing. Most of the animations now are probably final now. I compared the running animation to the one in Battlefield 3 and what hits me is that the animation in TSW looks too rigid.
Back to my comment on gameplay - does the game work? Is it fun? Am I distracted by the animations while playing? For me, it's a huge no. I really couldn't care less. I spend much more time looking at the mobs or the environment, both of which I think looks fantastic. The huge bug-eyed things with wings lying there dead on the ground with their tongue lolling out of their mouth are just awesome.
For me, the combat is lively with lots of decision making needed for the optimal fight and when I get an add or two, you really have to use all of your abilities to stay alive. Before combat I have lots of fun browsing through the abilities looking for fun builds. To me combat in TSW is very well made.
survival horror esque look at games like Alan Wake or the early silent hills where it's more gritty combat all the enemies are pretty strong and even one zombie type could take you out if not careful. Right now its basic AOE mow down the easy guys and concentrate on the hard one type for solo play. Also the weight of weapons still doesn't translate well for instance carrying a sword and swinging it doesn't feel any differn't than carry around a giant lead pipe and swinging it around.
Having it more survival type would add more to the feel of the zones and add greatly to the immersion of the game like it does in those survival horror type games... that's not the direction they went and what is there I'm ok with but t still could be better.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I agree that choosing a almost real art style or "uncanny valley" does make animation disconnects feel larger than games that go with a totally different art style. I felt the same way about Morrowind/Obvilion/Skyrim although I think in all three of those games animations connect better than in TSW.
With only 7 active abilities at one time there is only so complicated they can make the combat. It would be fine if you could switch builds on the fly but you can't. So regradless of how deep the ability wheel is your only getting to use 7 active items off it at one time. Add on top of that the need to have builders and spenders and the options for creative rotations gets pretty limitied.
Maybe you don't care about combat in TSW and thats ok but it is what you will be spending the large majority of your time doing. It is odd to me that the weakest part of the game is also the part you spend the most time doing. Was combat just something that the developers figured they would get around to after they polish the rest of the game and just ran out of time?
Edit: I have worked with a lot of developers in my time and I can totaly see that. They tend to like to chase shiny balls and hate doing stuff they have done before. So if you gave a developer a choice between designing a classless ability wheel or polish a combat system most would take the shiny ball ability wheel anyday.
I really have 4 gripes with TSW.
1. Combat
2. Animations
3. Payment Model
4. It feels like a single player experience for the most part
So what happens when someone starts a thread that says the combat is awesome and amazing? I think back to my experience playing the game and wonder how someone with a rational mind could believe that the combat was awesome and amazing. When someone calls GW2 combat a dumbed down version of TSW combat I just scratch my head and toss it aside. It's just a silly claim and everyone that has played both games knows this.
People have come forward (very intense fans of TSW) and attempted to spin combat to a place where it owns all other MMORPGs in the combat department. I would just recommend that you guys start concentrating on the real positives of this game.
1. Great Atmosphere
2. Modern Setting
3. Interesting Questing
4. Less linear than other story driven MMORPGs
5. Puzzles
I mean hell, it was better when you guys were claiming people didn't like it because they were too stupid to understand it. At least then you are focusing on one of the game's strengths - puzzles.
I don't think that would go over well. Works great for a single player game but an mmo? Maybe if people were prone to grouping like in EQ but in this day and age people would go apeshit if it was that easy to die.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I agree with the comparison you gave of the gaves you mentioned.
WIth what you said about the dev's working on polishing other things first: From what I gathered on the official forums this is actually true, they put place holders as animations until they were ready with nearly everything else then put in the animations they intended and or polished.
I think if they indicated this to their customers before letting them into the game more of us would have accepted it a lot easier. For instance ANET told everyone what to expect the game to run primarily on during the BWE's so that most people understood it wouldn't look or perform exactly like it would upon further optimization. Funcom waited until tons of complaints hit the interwebs and then they back peddled and were like "it'll be fixed, they are just place holders, don't worry" a little to late for a lot of people.
Personally since it wont hurt or cost anything to test it again, I'm excited to see if its improved.
So it doesn't need to be like re, silent hill, Alan wake etc..
It is not a survival horror game.
By only allowing 7, it makes the build counter build meta game. Remeber when Blizaard said we want you to make "meaninful choices," The TSW system is what they were talking about.
I played a Lock for 5 years in WoW. 3 of wwhich were afflictions. I can still do the rotation in my sleep... Life tap, haunt, UA, Coruption, Shadow bolt filler, rinse and repeat. That's 5 buttons plus cooldowns and pots for about 7 total buttons for my dps roatation.
I created something similar in TSW just to see if I could do it. It wasn't easy and it took a lot of trial an error to craft an effective build with a 6 button rotation. I love this. I love that I had to trim the fat and make something out of nothing. 7 and 7 is the 5hit imo
Side not while messing with a block build, I was using "Stone Wall" a hammer defensive CD that increases block my 40% I coupled that with a passive that cause a knock down on block. I effectively created a new active ability. When I activated Stone Wall I would get a knock down
Cool stuff if you ask me 