Amusing how the OP constantly ignores the couple of people (including myself) who proved that his whole little speech is about and game he knows nothing about. Not surprising though, I guess we will never know why the OP thinks GW2 is just GW1 on steroids, since it's totally wrong.
I was thinking that myself actually. It's a completely new game code , weird how people do these things. And then they wonder why people get so frustrated with these forums because we have "people" posting the same inane nonsense over and over again with evidence to the contrary right before them but they claim it's not there just because they choose not to see it.
Again, you've taken what i've said out of context.
Where did I say the CODE was "copy & paste" from GW1? "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" isn't a negative comment, and was an opinion meant to broadly express what GW2 is in a nutshell, meant for the fans.
What i said wasn't totally wrong, Korrigan simply wanted to find something small to nittpick about and draw a huge fuss over. Read my response to him for a full explanation.
Uhm actually no, now you are backtracking, first you claimed you were posting nothing but facts, now that people have pointed out how wrong you are and how you need to do more research into the facts and to learn the differences between the two you claim you have now just been posting opinions. You are contradicting yourself.
Please post where I said that i'm "Posting nothing but facts". That's nonsensical and is not only impossible, but impractical.
Second, I haven't backtracked once, again please post where I did that compared to a previous statement.
Third, I've done plenty of research. Simply because you disagree with my findings is your own personal problem, but i'm willing to discuss them with you openly.
Fourth, how am I contradicting myself? Broading saying "You're walking the wrong way!" without providing a basis is simply bad form.
Shouting "you're wrong!" all day without providing any real discussion to back it up does nothing for the conversation as a whole.
Wow just wow, all anyone including yoruself has to do is look at the replies you;ve given people just after your initial post about how factual you've been to see my point. Just like for the lack of research your original post on GW2, I'm not doing the copy pasting for you to show you what you've done. Two clicks will prove my point.
Originally posted by FadedbombIt isn't a "why X game will fail/succueed" thread. This thread primarily deals with the fact that GW2 is not worth the hype it's generating, but it will be a good measure of the B2P model as a whole. Also, to bring fans down to less hype controlled levels .
Anticipation and excitement are not the same as hype.
The word "hype" means that public expectations due to promised features (including design features) outweigh reality, ergo, it is impossible for any game to ever be worth its hype, because hype is always a lie.
That said, you are erroneously referring to the average level of GW2 anticipation as "hype," when it is not.
Several hundred thousand people have played in the beta weekend events and found that said features work as advertised, justifying their excitement.
Therefore, GW2 is generating a large amount of anticipation and excitement, but very little hype, as the promised features do not outweigh reality.
...This also means you have several hundred thousand people who disagree with you.
There is so little common sense on these forums, and when I see a post like this, trying to break through the monotony of stupidity that dominates most posts, I suddenly become all emotional. Q - Q
I also had millions of people who disagreed with me when I said SWTOR was a piece of rubbish prior to its release. That didn't phase me either. I'm perfectly fine with people having a different opinion than me. What matters is that people aren't making 100s of threads saying how AMAZING game X is without any real experience or proper explanation as to why. It spreads unwarranted hype and tends to trick people into buying a product that they haven't gotten the chance to try yet.
GW2, like SWTOR, has a MASSIVE amount of hype...trying to change the word to something else doesn't change what it means in the long run. Additionally, your definition of hype is technically wrong. Hype can also be generated by consumers to validate their own expectations of a given product which are generally self-candycoated to generate happyness towards a product they physically want to be excited about.
You're right in thinking that ANet hasn't intentionally hyped their own product like SWTOR did, BUT you're neglecting the fact that the fanbase has been trying to bill GW2 as the second coming for MMOs (ie: consumer generated hype). Trying to modify the definition for your own purposes doesn't exactly fit well in this kind of discussion.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I think people have an issue with your post mostly because GW1 and GW2 are so completely different. So when you say, "a PROPERLY done fan-oriented successor to GW1," people see it and /boggle.
There is, in my opinion, a much larger potential market for this game than just the GW1 fans. Your whole post is based on the idea that it is like GW1, but the games are so different in everything but name, that your argument just falls flat.
There's actually a lot more wrong w/ the OP's post, than just his misinterpretation of GW1 and GW2 as being more or less the same game (which anyone who has actually played both knows, they're not).
His argument basically consists of a number of seriously flawed points:
1) 'it happened with SWTOR, therefor it will happen with GW2'. Talk about apples & oranges. SWTOR is not measured as a success by any means. It sure sold a lot of box sales, but it's also one of the most expensive MMOs ever made. GW2 isn't. Doesn't matter if you sold 2million copies, if your game cost 600mil, and 6 years to make.
- It'll be easy to see whether GW2 is successful or not. But no, it won't all come down to 'sub numbers', as this game doesn't really have that.
2) 'GW1 fans are the only market for this game'. This has already been proven false. Many of the fans are actually coming from WoW, or being recruited by friends. There are a lot of GW1 fans playing, of course, but they are far from the only ones. Even when you look at fansites / podcasts for GW2, many of the people doing those have never played the first game, and openly admit it.
3) 'GW2 is still a themepark, and therefor won't make an impact'. Again, an absurd notion. The game is a themepark, but it has so many sandbox elements in it, that it really is it's own thing. It's somewhere in between a themepark & a sandbox, and thus different enough, that this point is kind of absurd.
4) 'GW2 will have no effect on the industry'. The game is already having an effect on the industry, and it's not even out yet. You can already see many of their design concepts being echoed in small doses in other games. The 'everyone can revive' mechanic, the ease of grouping, the AoE circles, hell I even found it interesting to see little mini-psuedo dynamic events in Diablo III.
How big of an impact GW2 will have on the industry won't be knowable until we see the next wave of MMORPGs. Which would basically not be until ~2-3 years from now. The MMOs coming out within the next year or so are too far into development to make any significant changes.
Honestly, the game will do fine. It's already got a good following. The only reason I'd say this game won't have as big of an impact as previous MMORPGs, is because many MMOs seem to be heading away from the RPG format, and experimenting w/ other genres mixed into the MMO-sphere.
Amusing how the OP constantly ignores the couple of people (including myself) who proved that his whole little speech is about and game he knows nothing about. Not surprising though, I guess we will never know why the OP thinks GW2 is just GW1 on steroids, since it's totally wrong.
I was thinking that myself actually. It's a completely new game code , weird how people do these things. And then they wonder why people get so frustrated with these forums because we have "people" posting the same inane nonsense over and over again with evidence to the contrary right before them but they claim it's not there just because they choose not to see it.
Again, you've taken what i've said out of context.
Where did I say the CODE was "copy & paste" from GW1? "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" isn't a negative comment, and was an opinion meant to broadly express what GW2 is in a nutshell, meant for the fans.
What i said wasn't totally wrong, Korrigan simply wanted to find something small to nittpick about and draw a huge fuss over. Read my response to him for a full explanation.
Uhm actually no, now you are backtracking, first you claimed you were posting nothing but facts, now that people have pointed out how wrong you are and how you need to do more research into the facts and to learn the differences between the two you claim you have now just been posting opinions. You are contradicting yourself.
Please post where I said that i'm "Posting nothing but facts". That's nonsensical and is not only impossible, but impractical.
Second, I haven't backtracked once, again please post where I did that compared to a previous statement.
Third, I've done plenty of research. Simply because you disagree with my findings is your own personal problem, but i'm willing to discuss them with you openly.
Fourth, how am I contradicting myself? Broading saying "You're walking the wrong way!" without providing a basis is simply bad form.
Shouting "you're wrong!" all day without providing any real discussion to back it up does nothing for the conversation as a whole.
Wow just wow, all anyone including yoruself has to do is look at the replies you;ve given people just after your initial post about how factual you've been to see my point. Just like for the lack of research your original post on GW2, I'm not doing the copy pasting for you to show you what you've done. Two clicks will prove my point.
So you've completely backtracked yourself then? You're not willing to have an open discussion based on the opinions you've put forth? You're not even willing to explain the points you brought up? This is a forum, not a place to throw names around without backing it up.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
If GW2 is really successful, then it opens the door to the idea that an MMORPG with all the features of an MMORPG can be successful without a subscription cost. Even if the sub cost is moved to a cash shop, it's different than what is current defined as the norm.
I don't know about the rest of it. I'd like to see more games with just a box purchase and no subscription though.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Accounts created means nothing, but again it backs up my point that there is a good populace who tried the game and liked it. Obviously more than 50% of those numbers didn't like the game as you see an obviously slow down around Septemper of 07. So given those numbers we're thinking what, a 3million strong potential gauranteed fanbase?
Again, a box sales success, but not a Game Changer as many seem to think it is . Simply a well done product meant for the fans of the original, and that's a good thing.
First of all, interesting thread but after further reading, your point just '' faded '' and few more comment from u were enough for me to see that you have no point at all, with all respect to your opinion of course. I am not saying that because I believe that GW2 will be an mmo-changer nor because I think GW2 is the best mmo in the world but because I don´t see '' why '' you think that this will never happen.
First, you talked about the B2P and that sales doesn´t mean everything. I agree, but all that may mean much in the future if the game turn out to be good. You can´t compare this game with WoW or TOR by checking subs because there is nothing like that in GW2. However, you can compare the '' player-base '', accounts-created and '' active players by day/week/month etc. nd there´s a big chance that GW2 will pawn all these game and may become the most famous game of all time, because this '' title '' doesn´t need P2P to be gained.
Now don´t get me worng, I don´t say that GW2 will '' do '' anything. However, it can do much, in my opinion as I have worked in the mmo-industry and kinda know the situation there. There is a chance but nothing is sure. If GW2 '' want '' to be the best, it will reach that through the gameplay etc, nd the B2P thingy will not matter here. From all the videos we have seen and the betas we have played, GW2 is still another fantasy mmorpg, however it had already changed many rules of the mmo-world, trying to reach the '' MMO-RPG formula '' everyone is searching for. If you have ever played MMO-games and really think that these are '' MMORPGs '', u prob don´t know anything about the genre. The MMORPG industry took the wrong directon from the start, nd just few years were enough for ppl to forget what MMORPGs really are. The open world where u can explore and chosose ur own way of '' living '', working, fighting and having fun. MMORPGs were made to be a kind of another '' real '' world, not grind fests where the single player mode is ur first and most attractive choice. U may think that games like TSW is more special than GW2, however that´s just '' looking at the skin '' thingy that most ppl do. ( PS: I am a fan of TSW, so don´t get me wrong. I love the game, I just think that GW2 changed more and desereve to be more special )
Simply, Anet are trying to create a new path for the mmo-genre. A path that GW2 will lead until another revolution come to Beat this title. If we talk about population, if GW2 does it right, it may trun out to be the world´s highest populated game. However there is much to do to reach that point, really much to do, but GW2 is in the right position. What I mean here is simply '' There is a chance for GW2 to blow up the mmo-industry, but there´s also a chance that GW2 will blow itself, destroying its name ''.
I also wanted to say something about ur comment above. GW1 didn´t lose its popularity because ppl didn´t like it, but because Anet stopped the developement at 2007. They said officially that they can´t complete the work on GW1 because GW2 is on the way and they are fully busy with it. So GW was great, really great and with high population though it wasn´t that perfect game nd wasn´t even an mmorpg. The impressive thing is that thousends are still playing RIGHT NOW, though the company stopped developing '' 5 '' years ago.
Good Luck
Whilte writing, all that which wasted my time, some more pages have been added to the thread. From ur new comments, I don´t see that u don´t have a point, but a person who watned attention, watning to start a flame thread without knowing anything about GW- series.
PS. If u think that GW2 will fail with P2P, u prob don´t know anything about the gaming industry
It isn't a "why X game will fail/succueed" thread. This thread primarily deals with the fact that GW2 is not worth the hype it's generating, but it will be a good measure of the B2P model as a whole. Also, to bring fans down to less hype controlled levels .
Anticipation and excitement are not the same as hype.
The word "hype" means that public expectations due to promised features (including design features) outweigh reality, ergo, it is impossible for any game to ever be worth its hype, because hype is always a lie.
That said, you are erroneously referring to the average level of GW2 anticipation as "hype," when it is not.
Several hundred thousand people have played in the beta weekend events and found that said features work as advertised, justifying their excitement.
Therefore, GW2 is generating a large amount of anticipation and excitement, but very little hype, as the promised features do not outweigh reality.
...This also means you have several hundred thousand people who disagree with you.
Where's an upvote button when you need one?
Exactly!
Spoke my mind.
As to the lack of knowledge of the OP being the basis of his claims that everyone elses positive reviews of BWE's being a hype train, ....His lack of knowledge does not make the experiences of others hype.
does anyone else feel like they are on a roller coaster ride trying to explain to him the reality of things or is it just me?
Now don´t get me worng, I don´t say that GW2 will '' do '' anything. However, it can do much, in my opinion as I have worked in the mmo-industry and kinda know the situation there. There is a chance but nothing is sure. If GW2 '' want '' to be the best, it will reach that through the gameplay etc, nd the B2P thingy will not matter here.
If you worked in the industry, then there is no way you worked on game design. Business model means everything, since the P2W model forces developers to design game mechanics so they can be monetized. If GW2 is a B2P MMO, then why is there a CS? Simple answer is it is P2W.
The Art Style for armor & characters is almost identicle to GW1, just with higher detailed textures & graphics.
Not accurate. Daniel Dociu came into ArenaNet early in GW2 development and effectively scrapped the "placeholder" artistry, starting over. Similarities needed to remain... you couldn't, for example, suddenly have the Charr look like the Elin.
The overall gameplay for GW1 was extremely linear. You went from Point A to Point B VERY clearly (following a path essentially). In GW2 it's the same way only it's hidden better, but it's still there. You stll go from Point A (starter zone) to points B, C, D, and E via leveling and advancing. This is classic themepark design, and still remains true from GW1. It's hard to explain if you haven't played both. The comparisons are easily made. If you think zones being larger & more open with more players interacting with each other makes the game LESS like GW1 you're wrong as that's simply a technology upgrade. It doesn't change the flow of the product.
Also not accurate. GW2 offers you a variety of ways to level up. You can level up via PvE, dynamic events, hearts, etc. You can completely level up solely in WvW. You can level up to 80 (max) solely by crafting if you wish. No matter which race you start with, you can very quickly have access to all the early zones and choose which zones you level in. You can stay in low level zones and level to 80 thanks to level scaling. You have an open world to explore just for the hell of it, straying off the "beaten path" as often as you wish.
The gear & class systems obviously changed so that everyone now has a heal, but that doesn't change what GuildWars as a whole actually is as you're only modifying how classes interact with each other (ie: no longer being defined as "Tank, Healer, DPS" purely based on class). Does that mean it changes what GuildWars is? Nope, but it is a good try and trying to redefine what the game should be.
Eh... what? It's not different because it's completely different?
Similarly to GW1 like GW2, there's REALLY no End-Game except PvP and some harder dungeons for groups/guilds to do. BOTH GW1 and GW2 have tried to eliminate the "End Game" concept. GW2 is simply doing it better. Does that man they're not similar at all? Obviously not, but further ties them together.
This is much more accurate. They've maintained the concept of "no gear grind" into GW2 as well.
I've been playing MMOs for quite a long time so it's easy for me to see similarities to previous products of different styles entirely AND similar products that have come before.
Hmm... you don't seem capable of differentiating "similarities" and "cloning". Keeping some high level concepts, such as no gear grind, doesn't make the game a prior version "on steroids". It simply reflects the companies design goals with MMOs.
I also had millions of people who disagreed with me when I said SWTOR was a piece of rubbish prior to its release. That didn't phase me either. I'm perfectly fine with people having a different opinion than me. What matters is that people aren't making 100s of threads saying how AMAZING game X is without any real experience or proper explanation as to why. It spreads unwarranted hype and tends to trick people into buying a product that they haven't gotten the chance to try yet.
There are tons of threads on these forums alone by people who have real experience and properly explain why the game is good. You on the other hand made a post without any real experience or proper explanation of anything. Where are your facts? There are plenty of facts on this thread alone that prove the game is good, there are zero that prove otherwise, so what's your point?
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
I think people have an issue with your post mostly because GW1 and GW2 are so completely different. So when you say, "a PROPERLY done fan-oriented successor to GW1," people see it and /boggle.
There is, in my opinion, a much larger potential market for this game than just the GW1 fans. Your whole post is based on the idea that it is like GW1, but the games are so different in everything but name, that your argument just falls flat.
There's actually a lot more wrong w/ the OP's post, than just his misinterpretation of GW1 and GW2 as being more or less the same game (which anyone who has actually played both knows, they're not).
His argument basically consists of a number of seriously flawed points:
1) 'it happened with SWTOR, therefor it will happen with GW2'. Talk about apples & oranges. SWTOR is not measured as a success by any means. It sure sold a lot of box sales, but it's also one of the most expensive MMOs ever made. GW2 isn't. Doesn't matter if you sold 2million copies, if your game cost 600mil, and 6 years to make.
- It'll be easy to see whether GW2 is successful or not. But no, it won't all come down to 'sub numbers', as this game doesn't really have that.
2) 'GW1 fans are the only market for this game'. This has already been proven false. Many of the fans are actually coming from WoW, or being recruited by friends. There are a lot of GW1 fans playing, of course, but they are far from the only ones. Even when you look at fansites / podcasts for GW2, many of the people doing those have never played the first game, and openly admit it.
3) 'GW2 is still a themepark, and therefor won't make an impact'. Again, an absurd notion. The game is a themepark, but it has so many sandbox elements in it, that it really is it's own thing. It's somewhere in between a themepark & a sandbox, and thus different enough, that this point is kind of absurd.
4) 'GW2 will have no effect on the industry'. The game is already having an effect on the industry, and it's not even out yet. You can already see many of their design concepts being echoed in small doses in other games. The 'everyone can revive' mechanic, the ease of grouping, the AoE circles, hell I even found it interesting to see little mini-psuedo dynamic events in Diablo III.
How big of an impact GW2 will have on the industry won't be knowable until we see the next wave of MMORPGs. Which would basically not be until ~2-3 years from now. The MMOs coming out within the next year or so are too far into development to make any significant changes.
Honestly, the game will do fine. It's already got a good following. The only reason I'd say this game won't have as big of an impact as previous MMORPGs, is because many MMOs seem to be heading away from the RPG format, and experimenting w/ other genres mixed into the MMO-sphere.
Uhg, I made none of these over concentrated statements.
1) I was using SWTOR as an example to show what CAN happen, not that it WILL happen to GW2. This is called leading into a point by example, and not a direct reference.
2) Again, never said this. There obviously will be X amount that want to try GW2 without any GW1 experience. However, my statement was that GENERALLY SPEAKING the "majority" of first-day players will have at least some experience with GW1.
3) The notion of "impact" is debatable, but the point in my use towards it was that it wouldn't change how the market perceives themeparks which i still believe. However, that was an opinion based on recent events. I never said it will have ZERO impact, I said we won't see any "major waves" meaning we won't see games starting to copy GW2 like everyone has been copying WoW for the past X years.
So right now the market prediction is 1.2 to 1.5 million box sales.
Really? I think that is rather low. I don't necessarily see it having SWTOR's sales but I think it will do better than that.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Now don´t get me worng, I don´t say that GW2 will '' do '' anything. However, it can do much, in my opinion as I have worked in the mmo-industry and kinda know the situation there. There is a chance but nothing is sure. If GW2 '' want '' to be the best, it will reach that through the gameplay etc, nd the B2P thingy will not matter here.
If you worked in the industry, then there is no way you worked on game design. Business model means everything, since the P2W model forces developers to design game mechanics so they can be monetized. If GW2 is a B2P MMO, then why is there a CS? Simple answer is it is P2W.
Iunno man. I think there is more to it than JUST P2W
I also had millions of people who disagreed with me when I said SWTOR was a piece of rubbish prior to its release. That didn't phase me either. I'm perfectly fine with people having a different opinion than me. What matters is that people aren't making 100s of threads saying how AMAZING game X is without any real experience or proper explanation as to why. It spreads unwarranted hype and tends to trick people into buying a product that they haven't gotten the chance to try yet.
There are tons of threads on these forums alone by people who have real experience and properly explain why the game is good. You on the other hand made a post without any real experience or proper explanation of anything. Where are your facts? There are plenty of facts on this thread alone that prove the game is good, there are zero that prove otherwise, so what's your point?
Again, where are people getting this "What I say is 100% fact" stuff? No where in my OP was 100% fact, but experienced opinions based on what has come & gone.
This is ALL Deja Vu for me as I've had discussions very similar to this about SWTOR, TERA, and Aion...more so in SWTOR though.
I've also not seen a single thread so far titled "Best MMO Ever" that had real experiences and proper explanations in them to support the title/thread.
Where are your "facts" that the game is "good"? 1 million box sales or more means good? I've seen 13million box sales for a product that consumers came back saying was absolutely terrible the next month after release.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
The Art Style for armor & characters is almost identicle to GW1, just with higher detailed textures & graphics.
Not accurate. Daniel Dociu came into ArenaNet early in GW2 development and effectively scrapped the "placeholder" artistry, starting over. Similarities needed to remain... you couldn't, for example, suddenly have the Charr look like the Elin.
Actually that one is accurate. The art style of GW1&2 is similiar.
Also Daniel Dociu joined ArenaNet early in the development of GW1
I've also not seen a single thread so far titled "Best MMO Ever" that had real experiences and proper explanations in them to support the title/thread.
Unlike other game forums which are full of "This is the best MMO ever" posts, there aren't any around here.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
The Art Style for armor & characters is almost identicle to GW1, just with higher detailed textures & graphics.
Not accurate. Daniel Dociu came into ArenaNet early in GW2 development and effectively scrapped the "placeholder" artistry, starting over. Similarities needed to remain... you couldn't, for example, suddenly have the Charr look like the Elin.
Actually that one is accurate. The art style of GW1&2 is similiar.
Also Daniel Dociu joined ArenaNet early in the development of GW1
The whole statement remains ridiculous though. It's like saying that two paintings are the same just because the two artists are impressionists.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
The Art Style for armor & characters is almost identicle to GW1, just with higher detailed textures & graphics.
Not accurate. Daniel Dociu came into ArenaNet early in GW2 development and effectively scrapped the "placeholder" artistry, starting over. Similarities needed to remain... you couldn't, for example, suddenly have the Charr look like the Elin.
The overall gameplay for GW1 was extremely linear. You went from Point A to Point B VERY clearly (following a path essentially). In GW2 it's the same way only it's hidden better, but it's still there. You stll go from Point A (starter zone) to points B, C, D, and E via leveling and advancing. This is classic themepark design, and still remains true from GW1. It's hard to explain if you haven't played both. The comparisons are easily made. If you think zones being larger & more open with more players interacting with each other makes the game LESS like GW1 you're wrong as that's simply a technology upgrade. It doesn't change the flow of the product.
Also not accurate. GW2 offers you a variety of ways to level up. You can level up via PvE, dynamic events, hearts, etc. You can completely level up solely in WvW. You can level up to 80 (max) solely by crafting if you wish. No matter which race you start with, you can very quickly have access to all the early zones and choose which zones you level in. You can stay in low level zones and level to 80 thanks to level scaling. You have an open world to explore just for the hell of it, straying off the "beaten path" as often as you wish.
The gear & class systems obviously changed so that everyone now has a heal, but that doesn't change what GuildWars as a whole actually is as you're only modifying how classes interact with each other (ie: no longer being defined as "Tank, Healer, DPS" purely based on class). Does that mean it changes what GuildWars is? Nope, but it is a good try and trying to redefine what the game should be.
Eh... what? It's not different because it's completely different?
Similarly to GW1 like GW2, there's REALLY no End-Game except PvP and some harder dungeons for groups/guilds to do. BOTH GW1 and GW2 have tried to eliminate the "End Game" concept. GW2 is simply doing it better. Does that man they're not similar at all? Obviously not, but further ties them together.
This is much more accurate. They've maintained the concept of "no gear grind" into GW2 as well.
I've been playing MMOs for quite a long time so it's easy for me to see similarities to previous products of different styles entirely AND similar products that have come before.
Hmm... you don't seem capable of differentiating "similarities" and "cloning". Keeping some high level concepts, such as no gear grind, doesn't make the game a prior version "on steroids". It simply reflects the companies design goals with MMOs.
That seems to be your problem, or perhaps your problem is with "similarities" and the word "cloning". Where did I say GW2 was a clone of GW1? No where, not a single spot. I said they were similar for obvious reasons, and GW2 was GW1 on steroids because it was built for the FANS of GW1 as a propr sequel. Again, people seem to have the misconception that "on steroids" == horrible clone?????
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Comments
If I'm getting this right. According to the OPs logic, ArenaNet = Bioware, and all developers are the same?
Wow just wow, all anyone including yoruself has to do is look at the replies you;ve given people just after your initial post about how factual you've been to see my point. Just like for the lack of research your original post on GW2, I'm not doing the copy pasting for you to show you what you've done. Two clicks will prove my point.
I also had millions of people who disagreed with me when I said SWTOR was a piece of rubbish prior to its release. That didn't phase me either. I'm perfectly fine with people having a different opinion than me. What matters is that people aren't making 100s of threads saying how AMAZING game X is without any real experience or proper explanation as to why. It spreads unwarranted hype and tends to trick people into buying a product that they haven't gotten the chance to try yet.
GW2, like SWTOR, has a MASSIVE amount of hype...trying to change the word to something else doesn't change what it means in the long run. Additionally, your definition of hype is technically wrong. Hype can also be generated by consumers to validate their own expectations of a given product which are generally self-candycoated to generate happyness towards a product they physically want to be excited about.
You're right in thinking that ANet hasn't intentionally hyped their own product like SWTOR did, BUT you're neglecting the fact that the fanbase has been trying to bill GW2 as the second coming for MMOs (ie: consumer generated hype). Trying to modify the definition for your own purposes doesn't exactly fit well in this kind of discussion.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
There's actually a lot more wrong w/ the OP's post, than just his misinterpretation of GW1 and GW2 as being more or less the same game (which anyone who has actually played both knows, they're not).
His argument basically consists of a number of seriously flawed points:
1) 'it happened with SWTOR, therefor it will happen with GW2'. Talk about apples & oranges. SWTOR is not measured as a success by any means. It sure sold a lot of box sales, but it's also one of the most expensive MMOs ever made. GW2 isn't. Doesn't matter if you sold 2million copies, if your game cost 600mil, and 6 years to make.
- It'll be easy to see whether GW2 is successful or not. But no, it won't all come down to 'sub numbers', as this game doesn't really have that.
2) 'GW1 fans are the only market for this game'. This has already been proven false. Many of the fans are actually coming from WoW, or being recruited by friends. There are a lot of GW1 fans playing, of course, but they are far from the only ones. Even when you look at fansites / podcasts for GW2, many of the people doing those have never played the first game, and openly admit it.
3) 'GW2 is still a themepark, and therefor won't make an impact'. Again, an absurd notion. The game is a themepark, but it has so many sandbox elements in it, that it really is it's own thing. It's somewhere in between a themepark & a sandbox, and thus different enough, that this point is kind of absurd.
4) 'GW2 will have no effect on the industry'. The game is already having an effect on the industry, and it's not even out yet. You can already see many of their design concepts being echoed in small doses in other games. The 'everyone can revive' mechanic, the ease of grouping, the AoE circles, hell I even found it interesting to see little mini-psuedo dynamic events in Diablo III.
How big of an impact GW2 will have on the industry won't be knowable until we see the next wave of MMORPGs. Which would basically not be until ~2-3 years from now. The MMOs coming out within the next year or so are too far into development to make any significant changes.
Honestly, the game will do fine. It's already got a good following. The only reason I'd say this game won't have as big of an impact as previous MMORPGs, is because many MMOs seem to be heading away from the RPG format, and experimenting w/ other genres mixed into the MMO-sphere.
So you've completely backtracked yourself then? You're not willing to have an open discussion based on the opinions you've put forth? You're not even willing to explain the points you brought up? This is a forum, not a place to throw names around without backing it up.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
If GW2 is really successful, then it opens the door to the idea that an MMORPG with all the features of an MMORPG can be successful without a subscription cost. Even if the sub cost is moved to a cash shop, it's different than what is current defined as the norm.
I don't know about the rest of it. I'd like to see more games with just a box purchase and no subscription though.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Whilte writing, all that which wasted my time, some more pages have been added to the thread. From ur new comments, I don´t see that u don´t have a point, but a person who watned attention, watning to start a flame thread without knowing anything about GW- series.
PS. If u think that GW2 will fail with P2P, u prob don´t know anything about the gaming industry
Exactly!
Spoke my mind.
As to the lack of knowledge of the OP being the basis of his claims that everyone elses positive reviews of BWE's being a hype train, ....His lack of knowledge does not make the experiences of others hype.
does anyone else feel like they are on a roller coaster ride trying to explain to him the reality of things or is it just me?
Hmm... you don't seem capable of differentiating "similarities" and "cloning". Keeping some high level concepts, such as no gear grind, doesn't make the game a prior version "on steroids". It simply reflects the companies design goals with MMOs.
Oderint, dum metuant.
There are tons of threads on these forums alone by people who have real experience and properly explain why the game is good. You on the other hand made a post without any real experience or proper explanation of anything. Where are your facts? There are plenty of facts on this thread alone that prove the game is good, there are zero that prove otherwise, so what's your point?
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Uhg, I made none of these over concentrated statements.
1) I was using SWTOR as an example to show what CAN happen, not that it WILL happen to GW2. This is called leading into a point by example, and not a direct reference.
2) Again, never said this. There obviously will be X amount that want to try GW2 without any GW1 experience. However, my statement was that GENERALLY SPEAKING the "majority" of first-day players will have at least some experience with GW1.
3) The notion of "impact" is debatable, but the point in my use towards it was that it wouldn't change how the market perceives themeparks which i still believe. However, that was an opinion based on recent events. I never said it will have ZERO impact, I said we won't see any "major waves" meaning we won't see games starting to copy GW2 like everyone has been copying WoW for the past X years.
4) See 3, you essentially hit both points in #3.
You're trying to oversimply what I said into EXTREME points that don't mirror at all to what i was talking about. Calm down and reread my OP
!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Look at TESO.
Tell me they didn't "borrow" some concepts from GW2.
OP is already wrong and the game isn't even out yet.
Really? I think that is rather low. I don't necessarily see it having SWTOR's sales but I think it will do better than that.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I think he meant pre-purchase sales.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Iunno man. I think there is more to it than JUST P2W
Again, where are people getting this "What I say is 100% fact" stuff? No where in my OP was 100% fact, but experienced opinions based on what has come & gone.
This is ALL Deja Vu for me as I've had discussions very similar to this about SWTOR, TERA, and Aion...more so in SWTOR though.
I've also not seen a single thread so far titled "Best MMO Ever" that had real experiences and proper explanations in them to support the title/thread.
Where are your "facts" that the game is "good"? 1 million box sales or more means good? I've seen 13million box sales for a product that consumers came back saying was absolutely terrible the next month after release.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
^ This
, sorry if I misrepresented that point.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Actually that one is accurate. The art style of GW1&2 is similiar.
Also Daniel Dociu joined ArenaNet early in the development of GW1
And just because it will be seen as successful by box sales only doesnt mean it wont be a game changer either...
Im betting it already has impacted the industry more than anyone knows yet..
Playing GW2..
Unlike other game forums which are full of "This is the best MMO ever" posts, there aren't any around here.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
The whole statement remains ridiculous though. It's like saying that two paintings are the same just because the two artists are impressionists.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
That seems to be your problem, or perhaps your problem is with "similarities" and the word "cloning". Where did I say GW2 was a clone of GW1? No where, not a single spot. I said they were similar for obvious reasons, and GW2 was GW1 on steroids because it was built for the FANS of GW1 as a propr sequel. Again, people seem to have the misconception that "on steroids" == horrible clone?????
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
i looked it up
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,1435/
hes been around since Factions
EQ2 fan sites