So we both agree that GW2 doesn't do any better a job at getting players immersed in PvE progression than any other MMORPG on the market?
Well, one could argue that SW:TOR and TSW probably do a better job.
Hmm... I distinctly remember running around in a zone and this Charr runs up to me and says "You, come over here! I need a hand with something!" Turned into a fully unexpected DE with three links in the chain. Not once did he call me "slave".
The discussion on immersion is limited to quest design. I understand how dynamic events sound immersive on paper, but in practice, I'm saying that they feel like minigames. While traditional questing has players doing similar activities, at least you're not going to the same location doing the exact same thing over and over again like you will be in GW2.
The difference being that in "traditional" MMOs you're only allowed to do the quest once. In GW2, if you happen across the same event a second time you can still fully participate. Farmer Joe, who's so intently worried about those ogres standing in the field over there, where they've stood for years on end, will only ask you to kill ten of them once, then he'll ignore you and ask everyone else that comes along and hasn't killed their quota of ten. Yet the apparent threat is just as great to them as it was to you... but no, only once for you.
Farmer James in Tyria, however, may ask passers by to help out with some tasks he can use a hand with. While people are helping you hear the alarm raised "Ogres are attacking! Holy frak!" Lo and behold, you turn and here come the ogres. They never got the memo to never leave their field, so they're bringing the pain.
By the way... people won't be staying in the one same area all day in GW2. There's too much exploring to be had. You'll complete some renown hearts or DEs in an area and move on.
So we both agree that GW2 doesn't do any better a job at getting players immersed in PvE progression than any other MMORPG on the market?
Well, one could argue that SW:TOR and TSW probably do a better job.
Hmm... I distinctly remember running around in a zone and this Charr runs up to me and says "You, come over here! I need a hand with something!" Turned into a fully unexpected DE with three links in the chain. Not once did he call me "slave".
So do well written quests.... they chain too....
Do them once, you'll always know they're there. The NPC will never seek you out for help, he'll just stand there with the "!" over his head, and only once for you. In GW2, you never know if the NPC will need your help or what he'll need help with.
So we both agree that GW2 doesn't do any better a job at getting players immersed in PvE progression than any other MMORPG on the market?
Well, one could argue that SW:TOR and TSW probably do a better job.
Hmm... I distinctly remember running around in a zone and this Charr runs up to me and says "You, come over here! I need a hand with something!" Turned into a fully unexpected DE with three links in the chain. Not once did he call me "slave".
So do well written quests.... they chain too....
Do them once, you'll always know they're there. The NPC will never seek you out for help, he'll just stand there with the "!" over his head, and only once for you. In GW2, you never know if the NPC will need your help or what he'll need help with.
Sure... the quest is presented in a different way.... he runs over to me instead of having a giant ! or ? over his head. Awesome. The game has evolved some in that respect. It is just when I get the task, it is the same cliche MMO task. It is just presented in a different way. I am not saying that it is awful, it just isn't as earth shattering or game changing as some make it out to be. It does allow for more immersion, I will give it that.
So we both agree that GW2 doesn't do any better a job at getting players immersed in PvE progression than any other MMORPG on the market?
Well, one could argue that SW:TOR and TSW probably do a better job.
Hmm... I distinctly remember running around in a zone and this Charr runs up to me and says "You, come over here! I need a hand with something!" Turned into a fully unexpected DE with three links in the chain. Not once did he call me "slave".
So do well written quests.... they chain too....
Do them once, you'll always know they're there. The NPC will never seek you out for help, he'll just stand there with the "!" over his head, and only once for you. In GW2, you never know if the NPC will need your help or what he'll need help with.
You make a lot of assumptions. The majority of the NPCs located near dynamic events seemed pretty darn stationary. I have seen nothing during my time in GW2 to make me believe that NPCs by and large initiate a number of different DEs. Most of the time, it's like I said. Johnny's farm is overrun by bandits 5 times a day.
At least traditional questing provides the illusion that you actually conquered the threat once you complete the quest. In GW2, you're actually expected to go back and complete the same DEs over and over again. I find it hard to believe that this is more immersive than traditional questing. In the real world, Farmer John's crops aren't raided by the exact same number of bandits who come in a precise number of waves multiple times a day. If they did, I bet Farmer John would get out of the farming business fairly quick.
The DEs are mindless fun. I'm not arguing that. I just don't see them as any more immsersive for all the reasons I listed above.
Even so, it's really only immersive the first couple of times it happens as in the real world, I doubt centaurs raid villages 10 times in a 24 hour period. After the fifth time you've saved a farmer's field from the same group of bandits, you start to wonder why the city guard doesn't station a legion in the area.
In the end, you realize it's just a simplistic minigame where you're repelling waves of invaders, none of whom look very different from one another. It's fun, but I wouldn't use it as evidence of immersion.
MMORPGS aren't know for tracking time very well.
Still, they do stand a legion in the area, but then centaurs arrive raze the village and make their own villages and forts.
End of the day it is a game, not a simulator.
I'm sorry you have never been immersed in a MMORPG since none does what you describe.
The discussion on immersion is limited to quest design. I understand how dynamic events sound immersive on paper, but in practice, I'm saying that they feel like minigames. While traditional questing has players doing similar activities, at least you're not going to the same location doing the exact same thing over and over again like you will be in GW2.
Traditional questing is someone holding your hand and telling you where to go and what to do. At least in GW2 it's your choice. And if you are standing in the same location doing the exact same thing over and over again that is your mistake not poor game design.
But I guess some players just need to have their hands held.
So we both agree that GW2 doesn't do any better a job at getting players immersed in PvE progression than any other MMORPG on the market?
Well, one could argue that SW:TOR and TSW probably do a better job.
Hmm... I distinctly remember running around in a zone and this Charr runs up to me and says "You, come over here! I need a hand with something!" Turned into a fully unexpected DE with three links in the chain. Not once did he call me "slave".
So do well written quests.... they chain too....
Do them once, you'll always know they're there. The NPC will never seek you out for help, he'll just stand there with the "!" over his head, and only once for you. In GW2, you never know if the NPC will need your help or what he'll need help with.
You make a lot of assumptions. The majority of the NPCs located near dynamic events seemed pretty darn stationary. I have seen nothing during my time in GW2 to make me believe that NPCs by and large initiate a number of different DEs. Most of the time, it's like I said. Johnny's farm is overrun by bandits 5 times a day.
At least traditional questing provides the illusion that you actually conquered the threat once you complete the quest. In GW2, you're actually expected to go back and complete the same DEs over and over again. I find it hard to believe that this is more immersive than traditional questing. In the real world, Farmer John's crops aren't raided by the exact same number of bandits who come in a precise number of waves multiple times a day. If they did, I bet Farmer John would get out of the farming business fairly quick.
The DEs are mindless fun. I'm not arguing that. I just don't see them as any more immsersive for all the reasons I listed above.
What?! Who you kidding? With traditional questing, you kill the ten ogres, turn around and the ogres are still standing in the field picking their noses waiting for someone else to kill them. Never is there a feeling of accomplishing something... it's always git 'er done and race to the next quest hub. When you come across a town that's been taken over by a giant in GW2, organize a dozen or so people, fight the giant and eventually beat him reviving the town and making the NPCs available... THAT'S accomplishing something. You beat the giant, now everyone can come to that town and interact with the NPCs, help repair the walls, etc.
You make a lot of assumptions. The majority of the NPCs located near dynamic events seemed pretty darn stationary. I have seen nothing during my time in GW2 to make me believe that NPCs by and large initiate a number of different DEs. Most of the time, it's like I said. Johnny's farm is overrun by bandits 5 times a day.
At least traditional questing provides the illusion that you actually conquered the threat once you complete the quest. In GW2, you're actually expected to go back and complete the same DEs over and over again. I find it hard to believe that this is more immersive than traditional questing. In the real world, Farmer John's crops aren't raided by the exact same number of bandits who come in a precise number of waves multiple times a day. If they did, I bet Farmer John would get out of the farming business fairly quick.
The DEs are mindless fun. I'm not arguing that. I just don't see them as any more immsersive for all the reasons I listed above.
Why would you do the same DEs over and over again? That just seems insane.
Even so, it's really only immersive the first couple of times it happens as in the real world, I doubt centaurs raid villages 10 times in a 24 hour period. After the fifth time you've saved a farmer's field from the same group of bandits, you start to wonder why the city guard doesn't station a legion in the area.
In the end, you realize it's just a simplistic minigame where you're repelling waves of invaders, none of whom look very different from one another. It's fun, but I wouldn't use it as evidence of immersion.
MMORPGS aren't know for tracking time very well.
Still, they do stand a legion in the area, but then centaurs arrive raze the village and make their own villages and forts.
End of the day it is a game, not a simulator.
I'm sorry you have never been immersed in a MMORPG since none does what you describe.
The discussion on immersion is limited to quest design. I understand how dynamic events sound immersive on paper, but in practice, I'm saying that they feel like minigames. While traditional questing has players doing similar activities, at least you're not going to the same location doing the exact same thing over and over again like you will be in GW2.
Traditional questing is someone holding your hand and telling you where to go and what to do. At least in GW2 it's your choice. And if you are standing in the same location doing the exact same thing over and over again that is your mistake not poor game design.
But I guess some players just need to have their hands held.
Excuse me, I could have sworn that orange circles on my map meant there was a dynamic event nearby or that heart-shaped icons meant heart quests, usually with a dynamic event not far off. Nevermind the fact that your personal story quests pretty much lead you through each zone in a linear path. I'd say that's handholding wouldn't you?
It's not even as if the DEs are all that interesting. None of them I have experienced require any real thought and revolve around how many badguys you and 45 others players near you can kill before you're killed yourself.
You make a lot of assumptions. The majority of the NPCs located near dynamic events seemed pretty darn stationary. I have seen nothing during my time in GW2 to make me believe that NPCs by and large initiate a number of different DEs. Most of the time, it's like I said. Johnny's farm is overrun by bandits 5 times a day.
At least traditional questing provides the illusion that you actually conquered the threat once you complete the quest. In GW2, you're actually expected to go back and complete the same DEs over and over again. I find it hard to believe that this is more immersive than traditional questing. In the real world, Farmer John's crops aren't raided by the exact same number of bandits who come in a precise number of waves multiple times a day. If they did, I bet Farmer John would get out of the farming business fairly quick.
The DEs are mindless fun. I'm not arguing that. I just don't see them as any more immsersive for all the reasons I listed above.
Why would you do the same DEs over and over again? That just seems insane.
Because it's the most efficient way to level. I'm still not sure there are enough DEs scattered around the map for a player to only run each event once before moving on to new areas, but locating all those events would be a slow and laborious process.
I consider myself someone whose tastes fall in line fairly well with mainstream gamers, and I can tell you that not everyone is going to enjoy frolicking around a virtual fantasy world for no other reason than just because. Most players are going to locate the DEs that exist close to the heart quest locations, and they'll simply repeat those over and over until they can move on to the next location. Others will probably do little else than PvP for the entire time they play. Either way, when they get bored of running the same content over and over, they'll quit.
No matter though. Because GW2 is B2P, it can sell 5 million copies then 5 years later when GW3 is in development and GW2 hasn't seen a major expansion in years, Anet can still claim it's the second most played MMORPG in America despite the fact that it only has around 10,000 active players.
Even so, it's really only immersive the first couple of times it happens as in the real world, I doubt centaurs raid villages 10 times in a 24 hour period. After the fifth time you've saved a farmer's field from the same group of bandits, you start to wonder why the city guard doesn't station a legion in the area.
In the end, you realize it's just a simplistic minigame where you're repelling waves of invaders, none of whom look very different from one another. It's fun, but I wouldn't use it as evidence of immersion.
MMORPGS aren't know for tracking time very well.
Still, they do stand a legion in the area, but then centaurs arrive raze the village and make their own villages and forts.
End of the day it is a game, not a simulator.
I'm sorry you have never been immersed in a MMORPG since none does what you describe.
The discussion on immersion is limited to quest design. I understand how dynamic events sound immersive on paper, but in practice, I'm saying that they feel like minigames. While traditional questing has players doing similar activities, at least you're not going to the same location doing the exact same thing over and over again like you will be in GW2.
Traditional questing is someone holding your hand and telling you where to go and what to do. At least in GW2 it's your choice. And if you are standing in the same location doing the exact same thing over and over again that is your mistake not poor game design.
But I guess some players just need to have their hands held.
Excuse me, I could have sworn that orange circles on my map meant there was a dynamic event nearby or that heart-shaped icons meant heart quests, usually with a dynamic event not far off. Nevermind the fact that your personal story quests pretty much lead you through each zone in a linear path. I'd say that's handholding wouldn't you?
It's not even as if the DEs are all that interesting. None of them I have experienced require any real thought and revolve around how many badguys you and 45 others players near you can kill before you're killed yourself.
But in the end it's your choice of which of those things you want to do. No quest giver that told you to kill 10 rats is going to give you credit because you chose to do something else instead.
You make a lot of assumptions. The majority of the NPCs located near dynamic events seemed pretty darn stationary. I have seen nothing during my time in GW2 to make me believe that NPCs by and large initiate a number of different DEs. Most of the time, it's like I said. Johnny's farm is overrun by bandits 5 times a day.
At least traditional questing provides the illusion that you actually conquered the threat once you complete the quest. In GW2, you're actually expected to go back and complete the same DEs over and over again. I find it hard to believe that this is more immersive than traditional questing. In the real world, Farmer John's crops aren't raided by the exact same number of bandits who come in a precise number of waves multiple times a day. If they did, I bet Farmer John would get out of the farming business fairly quick.
The DEs are mindless fun. I'm not arguing that. I just don't see them as any more immsersive for all the reasons I listed above.
Why would you do the same DEs over and over again? That just seems insane.
Because it's the most efficient way to level. I'm still not sure there are enough DEs scattered around the map for a player to only run each event once before moving on to new areas, but locating all those events would be a slow and laborious process.
I consider myself someone whose tastes fall in line fairly well with mainstream gamers, and I can tell you that not everyone is going to enjoy frolicking around a virtual fantasy world for no other reason than just because. Most players are going to locate the DEs that exist close to the heart quest locations, and they'll simply repeat those over and over until they can move on to the next location. Others will probably do little else than PvP for the entire time they play. Either way, when they get bored of running the same content over and over, they'll quit.
No matter though. Because GW2 is B2P, it can sell 5 million copies then 5 years later when GW3 is in development and GW2 hasn't seen a major expansion in years, Anet can still claim it's the second most played MMORPG in America despite the fact that it only has around 10,000 active players.
Not really.
I found moving from heart to heart while doing DEs along the way was the most efficient way.
Even so, it's really only immersive the first couple of times it happens as in the real world, I doubt centaurs raid villages 10 times in a 24 hour period. After the fifth time you've saved a farmer's field from the same group of bandits, you start to wonder why the city guard doesn't station a legion in the area.
In the end, you realize it's just a simplistic minigame where you're repelling waves of invaders, none of whom look very different from one another. It's fun, but I wouldn't use it as evidence of immersion.
MMORPGS aren't know for tracking time very well.
Still, they do stand a legion in the area, but then centaurs arrive raze the village and make their own villages and forts.
End of the day it is a game, not a simulator.
I'm sorry you have never been immersed in a MMORPG since none does what you describe.
The discussion on immersion is limited to quest design. I understand how dynamic events sound immersive on paper, but in practice, I'm saying that they feel like minigames. While traditional questing has players doing similar activities, at least you're not going to the same location doing the exact same thing over and over again like you will be in GW2.
Traditional questing is someone holding your hand and telling you where to go and what to do. At least in GW2 it's your choice. And if you are standing in the same location doing the exact same thing over and over again that is your mistake not poor game design.
But I guess some players just need to have their hands held.
Excuse me, I could have sworn that orange circles on my map meant there was a dynamic event nearby or that heart-shaped icons meant heart quests, usually with a dynamic event not far off. Nevermind the fact that your personal story quests pretty much lead you through each zone in a linear path. I'd say that's handholding wouldn't you?
It's not even as if the DEs are all that interesting. None of them I have experienced require any real thought and revolve around how many badguys you and 45 others players near you can kill before you're killed yourself.
But in the end it's your choice of which of those things you want to do. No quest giver that told you to kill 10 rats is going to give you credit because you chose to do something else instead.
If you don't do that DE, you do another one. If you don't do that NPC's quest, you do another quest. I fail to see a difference.
This is why people say it is not much different than a traditional quest. If the event happens over and over it loses its wow factor. How many times can you save a bridge, stop an invasion, or escort the little girl. I understand that the DE's chain, but if the chain is just another similar cliche MMO task then is it really that much different than a quest chain? Sure sometimes the world changes for a few minutes sometimes, but it eventually reverts back. I am interested in seeing what the devs do for changing up the events and hope that it is more often than not to avoid the yawn factor of "the centaurs are at it again" or "do those bandits ever stop". I like GW2 and plan on playing it, but I see it for what it is.
And I can agree. There really isn't that much of a difference, mechanically, between a DE and a quest, save two things:
1) Sometimes failing a DE can spawn a new DE. If you fail a quest, you just do it again.
2) DEs feel a little more organic. In a standard quest, I'm walking down the road, when I see a guy standing there, looking bored, with a ! over his head. I talk to him. There's baddies attacking the village! I agree to go over and kill 10 baddies. I come back and he says "I see you killed 10 baddies. Well done" and hands me his dad's hankerchief and some gold. If I didn't talk to him first, I could kill 6000000 baddies, and he wouldn't care.
In a DE, I walk past a village and see it's being attacked. I don't have to go fnd the NPC that starts it. I don't have to "start" it. I show up, I help out, I get rewarded. It jsut feels like it flows better.
Even so, it's really only immersive the first couple of times it happens as in the real world, I doubt centaurs raid villages 10 times in a 24 hour period. After the fifth time you've saved a farmer's field from the same group of bandits, you start to wonder why the city guard doesn't station a legion in the area.
In the end, you realize it's just a simplistic minigame where you're repelling waves of invaders, none of whom look very different from one another. It's fun, but I wouldn't use it as evidence of immersion.
MMORPGS aren't know for tracking time very well.
Still, they do stand a legion in the area, but then centaurs arrive raze the village and make their own villages and forts.
End of the day it is a game, not a simulator.
I'm sorry you have never been immersed in a MMORPG since none does what you describe.
The discussion on immersion is limited to quest design. I understand how dynamic events sound immersive on paper, but in practice, I'm saying that they feel like minigames. While traditional questing has players doing similar activities, at least you're not going to the same location doing the exact same thing over and over again like you will be in GW2.
Traditional questing is someone holding your hand and telling you where to go and what to do. At least in GW2 it's your choice. And if you are standing in the same location doing the exact same thing over and over again that is your mistake not poor game design.
But I guess some players just need to have their hands held.
Excuse me, I could have sworn that orange circles on my map meant there was a dynamic event nearby or that heart-shaped icons meant heart quests, usually with a dynamic event not far off. Nevermind the fact that your personal story quests pretty much lead you through each zone in a linear path. I'd say that's handholding wouldn't you?
It's not even as if the DEs are all that interesting. None of them I have experienced require any real thought and revolve around how many badguys you and 45 others players near you can kill before you're killed yourself.
But in the end it's your choice of which of those things you want to do. No quest giver that told you to kill 10 rats is going to give you credit because you chose to do something else instead.
If you don't do that DE, you do another one. If you don't do that NPC's quest, you do another quest. I fail to see a difference.
The difference is you choose what you want to do rather than having to run from NPC to NPC and having them tell you what to do. Unless that is how you want to play which works just as well. I just prefer having the freedom of choice.
Edit: Of course the comment I was quoting somehow got taken out of my post. This was on the "some people just like to have their hand held" garbage.
These are the types of returned comments I absolutely hate. (Or any with snide remarks involved in replying to someone's opinion)
While some don't seem to understand the hate players show towards GW2, I think others don't realize there's nearly an equal unprecidended amount returning from legitimate opinions. Your reply right here is a prime example. There HAS to be a snide comment at the end doesn't there?
No MMO is perfect and honestly none ever will be. Some may be closer, some not. What is a dealbreaker to some people will be unimportant to others. Why can't people on these forums realize this, or any forums? It doesn't matter WHAT MMO you talk about, people will hate and sometimes in a very juvenile manner. Does that mean you are a big person when you have to toss lame comments like this at the end of your reply? Does it mean you HAVE to lower yourself too? Get over yourself.
Personally GW2 is in about the same boat as GW1 for me. A well made game...but its long term playability for me is just non-existant. Perhaps that's also due to the fact that instead of paying for monthly fees for content patches I'm paying that in lump sums for expansions at my choosing. I'm not against this model in any way...but I felt the game to be very...small feeling. While it's not as bad in GW2 it still feels the same way and it just turns me off. You want to play? Please do and I hope you enjoy it. But don't be an douche about it.
On the note of apples and whatnot...while it's a real aspect of 'war', USUALLY the soldiers don't go out and pick them. This can be argued completely absent of realism. However it can be a nice break from the grindy killy thing IF you are into that. Please realize that NOT EVERYONE AGREES. Opinions are voiced on forums for that, not to force someone to think your way and not to try and belittle others (but yes I know some people act that way, they can DIAF honestly).
Even so, it's really only immersive the first couple of times it happens as in the real world, I doubt centaurs raid villages 10 times in a 24 hour period. After the fifth time you've saved a farmer's field from the same group of bandits, you start to wonder why the city guard doesn't station a legion in the area.
In the end, you realize it's just a simplistic minigame where you're repelling waves of invaders, none of whom look very different from one another. It's fun, but I wouldn't use it as evidence of immersion.
MMORPGS aren't know for tracking time very well.
Still, they do stand a legion in the area, but then centaurs arrive raze the village and make their own villages and forts.
End of the day it is a game, not a simulator.
I'm sorry you have never been immersed in a MMORPG since none does what you describe.
The discussion on immersion is limited to quest design. I understand how dynamic events sound immersive on paper, but in practice, I'm saying that they feel like minigames. While traditional questing has players doing similar activities, at least you're not going to the same location doing the exact same thing over and over again like you will be in GW2.
Traditional questing is someone holding your hand and telling you where to go and what to do. At least in GW2 it's your choice. And if you are standing in the same location doing the exact same thing over and over again that is your mistake not poor game design.
But I guess some players just need to have their hands held.
Excuse me, I could have sworn that orange circles on my map meant there was a dynamic event nearby or that heart-shaped icons meant heart quests, usually with a dynamic event not far off. Nevermind the fact that your personal story quests pretty much lead you through each zone in a linear path. I'd say that's handholding wouldn't you?
It's not even as if the DEs are all that interesting. None of them I have experienced require any real thought and revolve around how many badguys you and 45 others players near you can kill before you're killed yourself.
But in the end it's your choice of which of those things you want to do. No quest giver that told you to kill 10 rats is going to give you credit because you chose to do something else instead.
If you don't do that DE, you do another one. If you don't do that NPC's quest, you do another quest. I fail to see a difference.
The difference is you choose what you want to do rather than having to run from NPC to NPC and having them tell you what to do. Unless that is how you want to play which works just as well. I just prefer having the freedom of choice.
You can pick and choose what quests you want to do. You can normally drop a quest whenever you want and just do the ones you want to.....
Considering that picking up apples is pretty much completely limited to heart quests, and heart quests were created as a way to transition for WoW players, and the reason they tend to feature "boring" stuff that is not really story or combat related, that should give you a clue on the place of these quests in the game.
And I don't think the characters are in the active army. We're not marching to battlefields or digging trenches. This is more of a distributed general war state and in such a state it's pretty reasonable even for soldiers to do something relaxing for them. A WWII soldier would kill for an opportunity to play snowballs with some children instead of watching his friends die...
Because it's the most efficient way to level. I'm still not sure there are enough DEs scattered around the map for a player to only run each event once before moving on to new areas, but locating all those events would be a slow and laborious process.
I consider myself someone whose tastes fall in line fairly well with mainstream gamers, and I can tell you that not everyone is going to enjoy frolicking around a virtual fantasy world for no other reason than just because. Most players are going to locate the DEs that exist close to the heart quest locations, and they'll simply repeat those over and over until they can move on to the next location. Others will probably do little else than PvP for the entire time they play. Either way, when they get bored of running the same content over and over, they'll quit.
No matter though. Because GW2 is B2P, it can sell 5 million copies then 5 years later when GW3 is in development and GW2 hasn't seen a major expansion in years, Anet can still claim it's the second most played MMORPG in America despite the fact that it only has around 10,000 active players.
Regarding the part in red: Dead wrong. This is in fact a horrible way to level. You get so much xp from exploring, killing out-of-the- way champion mobs, and such, that tehre's no ppoint in standing around in one spot unless you LIKE being bored.
Regarding the teal: What I read from this is: You like WoW. You don't like games that are not like WoW, and you are going to trash anything that isn't.
Regarding yellow: Funny story. I've encountered several people on these forums and the GW2 ones stating they took forever to level and/or couldn't manage to complete enough content to get to the next zone. They were all people that did what you suggest. Meanwhile I ran around willy-nilly, had fun, never repeated a DE (Except for Shadow Behemoth in the swamp once) and got 3 levels above the minimm required to move out of Queensdale. And did it faster than people that sat at one DE all day.
You wanna play the game that way, slowly and miserable, have fun.
You see how Anet can twist some words around, and then their fanbase thinks the mostmundane tasks in the game are the greatest things since sliced bread?
I wonder how many hours most of the posters here spent criticizing other games for their mundane quest design.
The difference is that most game designers only give you the picking apples quests....throughout the entire game. In this case, these mundane quests are completely optional.
On top of that, no one here claimed those renown hearts were the greatest thing since sliced bread. I for one find them a little boring and only have done them if I want a change of pace. Which, coincidentally, is exactly why they are there.
You can go back to hating on GW2 now.
In 17 levels of GW2, I killed waves of bandits, I killed waves of cenaurs, I escorted lots of caravans, and I picked lots of berries. I may or may not have killed a world boss or two. At least from what I have seen, content variety is not GW2's strongsuite. I don't think you can say GW2 offers any greater variety of quests than perhaps WoW or SW:TOR.
Secondly, a change of pace is good, but the SW:TOR space minigame was also supposed to be a change of pace, yet people expected full-on freeform space travel. My point is, if you're going to create content for a change of pace, at least make that change of pace fun and engaging. If it's a boring mess, I'm going to call you out on it, which is what I'm doing right now.
You have a point, but this wasn't what you were saying at first. You took a jab at the fans for their tolerance to ANet's game design. You're being rather insulting, but this is the internet so meh...
You make a lot of assumptions. The majority of the NPCs located near dynamic events seemed pretty darn stationary. I have seen nothing during my time in GW2 to make me believe that NPCs by and large initiate a number of different DEs. Most of the time, it's like I said. Johnny's farm is overrun by bandits 5 times a day.
At least traditional questing provides the illusion that you actually conquered the threat once you complete the quest. In GW2, you're actually expected to go back and complete the same DEs over and over again. I find it hard to believe that this is more immersive than traditional questing. In the real world, Farmer John's crops aren't raided by the exact same number of bandits who come in a precise number of waves multiple times a day. If they did, I bet Farmer John would get out of the farming business fairly quick.
The DEs are mindless fun. I'm not arguing that. I just don't see them as any more immsersive for all the reasons I listed above.
Why would you do the same DEs over and over again? That just seems insane.
Because it's the most efficient way to level. I'm still not sure there are enough DEs scattered around the map for a player to only run each event once before moving on to new areas, but locating all those events would be a slow and laborious process.
I consider myself someone whose tastes fall in line fairly well with mainstream gamers, and I can tell you that not everyone is going to enjoy frolicking around a virtual fantasy world for no other reason than just because. Most players are going to locate the DEs that exist close to the heart quest locations, and they'll simply repeat those over and over until they can move on to the next location. Others will probably do little else than PvP for the entire time they play. Either way, when they get bored of running the same content over and over, they'll quit.
No matter though. Because GW2 is B2P, it can sell 5 million copies then 5 years later when GW3 is in development and GW2 hasn't seen a major expansion in years, Anet can still claim it's the second most played MMORPG in America despite the fact that it only has around 10,000 active players.
Not really.
I found moving from heart to heart while doing DEs along the way was the most efficient way.
Not only that, but there's no telling the timers for DEs. They may spawn every few hours for example... hardly efficient to wait in them.
I love those little side quests. I spent more time laughing and prodding cows back into thier pens, and wasted more time grinning as I chucked mortar shells at hyenas than I did actually completing 'main' quest lines.
..and I loved how stuff didn't immediatley reset after I fixed something.
When I poked and herded the cows back into the pens, they actually stayed there for a while, and I felt like I actually 'did' something.
When I picked up the scrap metal and this and that, it didn't just magically reappear a few seconds later.
I mean, of course it all resets eventually for the next person or something.. but its just one of those many 'little' things that made me fall in love with it.
Comments
So do well written quests.... they chain too....
The difference being that in "traditional" MMOs you're only allowed to do the quest once. In GW2, if you happen across the same event a second time you can still fully participate. Farmer Joe, who's so intently worried about those ogres standing in the field over there, where they've stood for years on end, will only ask you to kill ten of them once, then he'll ignore you and ask everyone else that comes along and hasn't killed their quota of ten. Yet the apparent threat is just as great to them as it was to you... but no, only once for you.
Farmer James in Tyria, however, may ask passers by to help out with some tasks he can use a hand with. While people are helping you hear the alarm raised "Ogres are attacking! Holy frak!" Lo and behold, you turn and here come the ogres. They never got the memo to never leave their field, so they're bringing the pain.
By the way... people won't be staying in the one same area all day in GW2. There's too much exploring to be had. You'll complete some renown hearts or DEs in an area and move on.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Do them once, you'll always know they're there. The NPC will never seek you out for help, he'll just stand there with the "!" over his head, and only once for you. In GW2, you never know if the NPC will need your help or what he'll need help with.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Sure... the quest is presented in a different way.... he runs over to me instead of having a giant ! or ? over his head. Awesome. The game has evolved some in that respect. It is just when I get the task, it is the same cliche MMO task. It is just presented in a different way. I am not saying that it is awful, it just isn't as earth shattering or game changing as some make it out to be. It does allow for more immersion, I will give it that.
You make a lot of assumptions. The majority of the NPCs located near dynamic events seemed pretty darn stationary. I have seen nothing during my time in GW2 to make me believe that NPCs by and large initiate a number of different DEs. Most of the time, it's like I said. Johnny's farm is overrun by bandits 5 times a day.
At least traditional questing provides the illusion that you actually conquered the threat once you complete the quest. In GW2, you're actually expected to go back and complete the same DEs over and over again. I find it hard to believe that this is more immersive than traditional questing. In the real world, Farmer John's crops aren't raided by the exact same number of bandits who come in a precise number of waves multiple times a day. If they did, I bet Farmer John would get out of the farming business fairly quick.
The DEs are mindless fun. I'm not arguing that. I just don't see them as any more immsersive for all the reasons I listed above.
Traditional questing is someone holding your hand and telling you where to go and what to do. At least in GW2 it's your choice. And if you are standing in the same location doing the exact same thing over and over again that is your mistake not poor game design.
But I guess some players just need to have their hands held.
What?! Who you kidding? With traditional questing, you kill the ten ogres, turn around and the ogres are still standing in the field picking their noses waiting for someone else to kill them. Never is there a feeling of accomplishing something... it's always git 'er done and race to the next quest hub. When you come across a town that's been taken over by a giant in GW2, organize a dozen or so people, fight the giant and eventually beat him reviving the town and making the NPCs available... THAT'S accomplishing something. You beat the giant, now everyone can come to that town and interact with the NPCs, help repair the walls, etc.
Oderint, dum metuant.
It has picking apples! It's a WoW Clone! get it! /sarcasm@peoplethatuse"WoW clone"term
Why would you do the same DEs over and over again? That just seems insane.
Excuse me, I could have sworn that orange circles on my map meant there was a dynamic event nearby or that heart-shaped icons meant heart quests, usually with a dynamic event not far off. Nevermind the fact that your personal story quests pretty much lead you through each zone in a linear path. I'd say that's handholding wouldn't you?
It's not even as if the DEs are all that interesting. None of them I have experienced require any real thought and revolve around how many badguys you and 45 others players near you can kill before you're killed yourself.
Because it's the most efficient way to level. I'm still not sure there are enough DEs scattered around the map for a player to only run each event once before moving on to new areas, but locating all those events would be a slow and laborious process.
I consider myself someone whose tastes fall in line fairly well with mainstream gamers, and I can tell you that not everyone is going to enjoy frolicking around a virtual fantasy world for no other reason than just because. Most players are going to locate the DEs that exist close to the heart quest locations, and they'll simply repeat those over and over until they can move on to the next location. Others will probably do little else than PvP for the entire time they play. Either way, when they get bored of running the same content over and over, they'll quit.
No matter though. Because GW2 is B2P, it can sell 5 million copies then 5 years later when GW3 is in development and GW2 hasn't seen a major expansion in years, Anet can still claim it's the second most played MMORPG in America despite the fact that it only has around 10,000 active players.
But in the end it's your choice of which of those things you want to do. No quest giver that told you to kill 10 rats is going to give you credit because you chose to do something else instead.
Not really.
I found moving from heart to heart while doing DEs along the way was the most efficient way.
If you don't do that DE, you do another one. If you don't do that NPC's quest, you do another quest. I fail to see a difference.
Well, yes, if you hate all of the PvE content in the game, you're going to have a bad time. What do you want us to say?
"Yes, I can shoot with a different gun in this FPS, but I am still shooting guns..." -_-
And I can agree. There really isn't that much of a difference, mechanically, between a DE and a quest, save two things:
1) Sometimes failing a DE can spawn a new DE. If you fail a quest, you just do it again.
2) DEs feel a little more organic. In a standard quest, I'm walking down the road, when I see a guy standing there, looking bored, with a ! over his head. I talk to him. There's baddies attacking the village! I agree to go over and kill 10 baddies. I come back and he says "I see you killed 10 baddies. Well done" and hands me his dad's hankerchief and some gold. If I didn't talk to him first, I could kill 6000000 baddies, and he wouldn't care.
In a DE, I walk past a village and see it's being attacked. I don't have to go fnd the NPC that starts it. I don't have to "start" it. I show up, I help out, I get rewarded. It jsut feels like it flows better.
At least you admit where the failure is. That's a step in the right direction. Variety is the spice of life.
The difference is you choose what you want to do rather than having to run from NPC to NPC and having them tell you what to do. Unless that is how you want to play which works just as well. I just prefer having the freedom of choice.
Edit: Of course the comment I was quoting somehow got taken out of my post. This was on the "some people just like to have their hand held" garbage.
These are the types of returned comments I absolutely hate. (Or any with snide remarks involved in replying to someone's opinion)
While some don't seem to understand the hate players show towards GW2, I think others don't realize there's nearly an equal unprecidended amount returning from legitimate opinions. Your reply right here is a prime example. There HAS to be a snide comment at the end doesn't there?
No MMO is perfect and honestly none ever will be. Some may be closer, some not. What is a dealbreaker to some people will be unimportant to others. Why can't people on these forums realize this, or any forums? It doesn't matter WHAT MMO you talk about, people will hate and sometimes in a very juvenile manner. Does that mean you are a big person when you have to toss lame comments like this at the end of your reply? Does it mean you HAVE to lower yourself too? Get over yourself.
Personally GW2 is in about the same boat as GW1 for me. A well made game...but its long term playability for me is just non-existant. Perhaps that's also due to the fact that instead of paying for monthly fees for content patches I'm paying that in lump sums for expansions at my choosing. I'm not against this model in any way...but I felt the game to be very...small feeling. While it's not as bad in GW2 it still feels the same way and it just turns me off. You want to play? Please do and I hope you enjoy it. But don't be an douche about it.
On the note of apples and whatnot...while it's a real aspect of 'war', USUALLY the soldiers don't go out and pick them. This can be argued completely absent of realism. However it can be a nice break from the grindy killy thing IF you are into that. Please realize that NOT EVERYONE AGREES. Opinions are voiced on forums for that, not to force someone to think your way and not to try and belittle others (but yes I know some people act that way, they can DIAF honestly).
You can pick and choose what quests you want to do. You can normally drop a quest whenever you want and just do the ones you want to.....
Considering that picking up apples is pretty much completely limited to heart quests, and heart quests were created as a way to transition for WoW players, and the reason they tend to feature "boring" stuff that is not really story or combat related, that should give you a clue on the place of these quests in the game.
And I don't think the characters are in the active army. We're not marching to battlefields or digging trenches. This is more of a distributed general war state and in such a state it's pretty reasonable even for soldiers to do something relaxing for them. A WWII soldier would kill for an opportunity to play snowballs with some children instead of watching his friends die...
Regarding the part in red: Dead wrong. This is in fact a horrible way to level. You get so much xp from exploring, killing out-of-the- way champion mobs, and such, that tehre's no ppoint in standing around in one spot unless you LIKE being bored.
Regarding the teal: What I read from this is: You like WoW. You don't like games that are not like WoW, and you are going to trash anything that isn't.
Regarding yellow: Funny story. I've encountered several people on these forums and the GW2 ones stating they took forever to level and/or couldn't manage to complete enough content to get to the next zone. They were all people that did what you suggest. Meanwhile I ran around willy-nilly, had fun, never repeated a DE (Except for Shadow Behemoth in the swamp once) and got 3 levels above the minimm required to move out of Queensdale. And did it faster than people that sat at one DE all day.
You wanna play the game that way, slowly and miserable, have fun.
You have a point, but this wasn't what you were saying at first. You took a jab at the fans for their tolerance to ANet's game design. You're being rather insulting, but this is the internet so meh...
Not only that, but there's no telling the timers for DEs. They may spawn every few hours for example... hardly efficient to wait in them.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I love those little side quests. I spent more time laughing and prodding cows back into thier pens, and wasted more time grinning as I chucked mortar shells at hyenas than I did actually completing 'main' quest lines.
..and I loved how stuff didn't immediatley reset after I fixed something.
When I poked and herded the cows back into the pens, they actually stayed there for a while, and I felt like I actually 'did' something.
When I picked up the scrap metal and this and that, it didn't just magically reappear a few seconds later.
I mean, of course it all resets eventually for the next person or something.. but its just one of those many 'little' things that made me fall in love with it.