No offense but this is all opinion folks. All of the games that have been mentioned are high quality games but they appeal to different styles of player. DAOC appeals to those who enjoy RVR combat and are PVP lovers. For those who could care less about PVP or don't play strictly for PVP DAOC sucks. Personally I can take or leave PVP. I enjoy it but it's not the sole reason I play an MMORPG so DAOC is "ok" to me but there are better games out there for me that suit my style better.
I can see where someone would love DAOC... I played it for over a year after all... but to say nothing better has come along is purely personal opinion. Some love it, some don't, some love other things more. Calling a game that's over 3 years old the Pinnacle of the MMORPG industry is just ludicrous. It's crafting system is sub par. It has no non-combat professions at all because even crafters have to make their initial investment money via combat (unless someone gives them an economic windfall) It's economy is crap because items never leave the system and the PVP is repetitive and boring. I mena, c'mon now, how many times can you swap the same territory over and over? RVR serves no real purpose in DAOC other than to kill each other. Territory in that game changes hands faster than a dollar bill at McDonalds.
It's a great game... And the RVR system was revolutionary and really should be picked up by another game. But to say it's the pinnacle of MMORPG's? I don't think so.
But again: That's my personal opinion. I think Ryzom's Outposts are going to blow RVR in DAOC away once they are implemented. Could be wrong since it's not IN yet but it looks very promising. I think the PVP in SWG was superior to DAOC as well and the PVP in EVE is FAR superior than DAOC and more balanced and territory means a lot more too.
DAOC is a great game but to say it's the best and nothing else is better? Nah... that's just personal opinion
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I think people are getting caught up in the opinion of the original post and not the substantive part of it. Part of what the original post was talking about was that after 4 years there has yet to be another game come out that has added anything substantial to gameplay. It is mostly all been steamlining and working on the same model.
Vanguard is just a new version of the original EQ.
WoW is just a single player version of EQ.
SoR - not enough time to trash this game. They have skill based - but not the first. The only thing really new is Ryzom Outpost which if I understand it correctly allows people to add their own content to the game. That is at least something new.
DAOC can appeal to the PvE and PvP aspects of the game. It allowed custom UI. Because of the 100,000 people that left EQ to start playing DAOC, EQ had to finally work on improving their game and all of their initial improvments were just doing what DAOC did. DAOC always updated the graphics with every expansion.
So sure the original poster if claiming this is the best game, which can be seen as opinion. On the other hand his statement on the surface seems to be true in that in 4 years there has been little added to the fantasy genre in terms of game play or ideas.
You can hate DAOC or like it. It does not take away from the original post in that it seems rather sad that the mmorpg market has games that are still working off of a basic formula and not trying anything substantially new.
Originally posted by fulmanfu Does anyone else think its sad that, 4 years after its release a mmorpg better than DaoC has not been released yet.? im not saying its an awesome game, but its dam good. i know some decent ones have come out, but not a better, well rounded game with solid pvp and pve environment. class choices. and staying power, thats the main thing(i.e. WoW, CoH). 4 years, you would think something would have left it in the dust by now.
What games have you been playing? I've played about 5 better than DAOC
Originally posted by fulmanfu Does anyone else think its sad that, 4 years after its release a mmorpg better than DaoC has not been released yet.? im not saying its an awesome game, but its dam good. i know some decent ones have come out, but not a better, well rounded game with solid pvp and pve environment. class choices. and staying power, thats the main thing(i.e. WoW, CoH). 4 years, you would think something would have left it in the dust by now.
What games have you been playing? I've played about 5 better than DAOC
I am curious what 5 you have played that are better in your opinion?
Originally posted by JulianDracos I think people are getting caught up in the opinion of the original post and not the substantive part of it. Part of what the original post was talking about was that after 4 years there has yet to be another game come out that has added anything substantial to gameplay. It is mostly all been steamlining and working on the same model. Vanguard is just a new version of the original EQ.WoW is just a single player version of EQ. SoR - not enough time to trash this game. They have skill based - but not the first. The only thing really new is Ryzom Outpost which if I understand it correctly allows people to add their own content to the game. That is at least something new. DAOC can appeal to the PvE and PvP aspects of the game. It allowed custom UI. Because of the 100,000 people that left EQ to start playing DAOC, EQ had to finally work on improving their game and all of their initial improvments were just doing what DAOC did. DAOC always updated the graphics with every expansion. So sure the original poster if claiming this is the best game, which can be seen as opinion. On the other hand his statement on the surface seems to be true in that in 4 years there has been little added to the fantasy genre in terms of game play or ideas. You can hate DAOC or like it. It does not take away from the original post in that it seems rather sad that the mmorpg market has games that are still working off of a basic formula and not trying anything substantially new.
Lets see... games that have added new ideas to the Genre since DAOC: 1) Shadowbane. While badly implemented the idea of being able to create entire cities and have them taken over by enemy guilds was a very interesting twist. True land control...
2) SWG... A truely open ended character growth system where you are not locked into one profession from creation to deletion. The ability to impact the control of entire planets through factional wars and player verses player fighting. The ability to craft without ever touching a weapon of your own. The ability to impact the game, dramatically, without ever leaving town. The ability to create beautiful cities that are 100% player run.
3) EVE... The first skill system that doesn't require 'grinding' just time. A security based PVP system that has policed areas where trying to attack another player will get you killed but also allows for open full PVP combat. And even in the 'policed' areas you CAN attack but will face dire consequences. A deep and involved economy.
4) EverQuest II: Truely innovative and entertaining quest storylines that build upon each other. Very few MMO's prior to this did more than a nod at 'epic' quests. EQII, however, is riddled with them.
5) Saga of Ryzom: An evolving world that undergoes seasonal changes. Player created content in the form of the upcoming Ryzom Ring where players can create their own "zones" and allow other players to enjoy them as part of the entire game. Outpost combat which is reminiscent of both RVR in DAOC and Guild Warfare in Shadowbane but with it's own unique twist to make it less 'land swap' intensive and more realistic at the same time. Interactive creature/npc AI where different creatures will assist or attack each other, or come to the assistance of one another against players, even outside the species/clan.
6) WOW: Which took all sorts of ideas and simplified them, bringing in MILLIONS of new people to the Genre. If you are so ready to dismiss this single accomplishment, possibly the BIGGEST and MOST IMPORTANT accomplishment of any game in the Genre then you are foolish.
7) Horizons: Playable Dragons anyone? The ability to fly? (Can't say crafting since SWG already had that and did it better, imo). One of very few games with the ability to HARVEST the things you need for crafting rather than having to acquire money through killing things in order to buy components (EQ, DAOC). SWG & UO beat it to it but it is still one of very few to do it.
8) Earth & Beyond: Story arcs that actually changed the universe and the gameplay. Evolving quests that actually get phased out over time as the storyline passes them by. A player starting on the first day had an entirely different story arc in the quests in E&B than a player who joined a year later. (AC1 also did this)
Again, don't get me wrong. DAOC did a lot of great things and it is a great game. But it's neither the "Best" nor the "Pinnacle" and it certainly isn't the only MMORPG to have brought something new to the table.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by clinteast Originally posted by n25phillyOriginally posted by fulmanfuDoes anyone else think its sad that, 4 years after its release a mmorpg better than DaoC has not been released yet.? im not saying its an awesome game, but its dam good. i know some decent ones have come out, but not a better, well rounded game with solid pvp and pve environment. class choices. and staying power, thats the main thing(i.e. WoW, CoH). 4 years, you would think something would have left it in the dust by now. What games have you been playing? I've played about 5 better than DAOCI am curious what 5 you have played that are better in your opinion?
something tells me..conquer,iro,rose,flyff,and maple story are what he has in mind
to elnator, daoc is not about rvr soley. i saw you say you played for a year, it was most likely not recently, but with cats it honestly is every bit the pve game that anything else on this list is. you can quest your way from 1-50 in cats alone give or take a few td's. the new epic's are really cool as well. i went back to daoc after trying everything else for 3 years between my first and second go at it, and yeah it is just my opinion but im right (hehe jk) another thing is sure WoW has great pve i guess, but to me i dont like that there are 1000 of my clones running aruond. in daoc i play on a server that has about 1k+ people at primetime and i have 2 chars that i can honesly say there aren't more than 5 like me on the server.
i do hope trials of ascension makes it, and keeps to thier ideas. ive been watching it, visiting forums, getting emails about it for some time. i'm also looking forward, scepticly , to DnL and tabula rasa. the waiting is killing me though.:/
Lets see... games that have added new ideas to the Genre since DAOC: 1) Shadowbane. While badly implemented the idea of being able to create entire cities and have them taken over by enemy guilds was a very interesting twist. True land control...
2) SWG... A truely open ended character growth system where you are not locked into one profession from creation to deletion. The ability to impact the control of entire planets through factional wars and player verses player fighting. The ability to craft without ever touching a weapon of your own. The ability to impact the game, dramatically, without ever leaving town. The ability to create beautiful cities that are 100% player run.
3) EVE... The first skill system that doesn't require 'grinding' just time. A security based PVP system that has policed areas where trying to attack another player will get you killed but also allows for open full PVP combat. And even in the 'policed' areas you CAN attack but will face dire consequences. A deep and involved economy.
4) EverQuest II: Truely innovative and entertaining quest storylines that build upon each other. Very few MMO's prior to this did more than a nod at 'epic' quests. EQII, however, is riddled with them.
5) Saga of Ryzom: An evolving world that undergoes seasonal changes. Player created content in the form of the upcoming Ryzom Ring where players can create their own "zones" and allow other players to enjoy them as part of the entire game. Outpost combat which is reminiscent of both RVR in DAOC and Guild Warfare in Shadowbane but with it's own unique twist to make it less 'land swap' intensive and more realistic at the same time. Interactive creature/npc AI where different creatures will assist or attack each other, or come to the assistance of one another against players, even outside the species/clan.
6) WOW: Which took all sorts of ideas and simplified them, bringing in MILLIONS of new people to the Genre. If you are so ready to dismiss this single accomplishment, possibly the BIGGEST and MOST IMPORTANT accomplishment of any game in the Genre then you are foolish.
7) Horizons: Playable Dragons anyone? The ability to fly? (Can't say crafting since SWG already had that and did it better, imo). One of very few games with the ability to HARVEST the things you need for crafting rather than having to acquire money through killing things in order to buy components (EQ, DAOC). SWG & UO beat it to it but it is still one of very few to do it.
8) Earth & Beyond: Story arcs that actually changed the universe and the gameplay. Evolving quests that actually get phased out over time as the storyline passes them by. A player starting on the first day had an entirely different story arc in the quests in E&B than a player who joined a year later. (AC1 also did this)
Again, don't get me wrong. DAOC did a lot of great things and it is a great game. But it's neither the "Best" nor the "Pinnacle" and it certainly isn't the only MMORPG to have brought something new to the table.[/b][/quote]
1. Shadowbane - the idea seems on par with AC2 in many respects but building on those. Perhaps this might count.
2. SWG - player run cities. That is new, but then taken from Shadowbane, which was taken from AC2. They were the first 'big' skill based system. But you do not really have much impact. The poor choice of when the set the game everyone knows what is going to happen. It is not as though the core planents will be taken over in the game crush the Rebal Alliance. I wouldn't say you can make a dramatic impact on the world without leaving your town either.
3. Eve - never played so do not want to get into it.
4. EQ2 - having good quests and story arches is not new. At best you can say they have more of them and better ones, but this would not qualiify as something innovative - just better in some aspect than before.
5. SoR - they have seasons, well that counts as fluff. The player created content is new and I admitted that - yet it has not come out yet.
6. WoW - having the largest mmorpg is an accomplisment - BUT NOT IN TERMS OF INOVATIVE GAMEPLAY! They made a nice and easy mmorpg and it is extremely successful. I would not say that this counts as an innovation just an improvement of what already was.
7. Horizons - I would say of what you mentioned it is the least of what it actually did add. I tend to forget about this game because it was such crap. But there were some very good and unique gameplay ideas, it simply didn't work.
8. Earth and Beyond - you already mentioned that AC1 did that.
So yes there have been a few real additions to gameplay that were not simply improvments on the old model. However, you would expect more in the time frame. I think Horizons might be an example of why. Do something new and if you do not do it well, people will not want to copy it. So people copy the tried and true method with improvement and additional fluff to try and make it unique.
Not flaming JD but since this thread is pretty much agreed to be about opinion... then heres my 2c on those games... all of which I have played...
Shadowbane - Poorly implemented... we could leave it right there... but I will add that a pile of good ideas is about all it was... I have some good ideas too... but I dont claim to be a dev..
SWG - possibly the most disapointing MMO to date. The CU basically brought the game to release quality in terms of balance, as for content.... J to the O to the K to the E
Eve - The only MMO since DAoC to offer anything like a quality alternative. I agree with you 100% its probably the next best thing on the market. But only if you like being stuck in a cockpit.
EQ2 - *ambulance sirens* "give him 500mg of Adrenalin I think hes going into a boredom induced coma".... Norath transforms into the land of yawns...
Saga of Ryzom - way to much like L2 for my liking... childish, simplistic, more like a console game than a proper MMO
WoW - again Im with you 100%, whilst I personally found it pretty grindish after 40 and gave it away. I can see why it appeals to people and Id say on the whole its done more good than harm to the industry.
Horizons - If there was a gold medal for potential, horizons would win it hands down... beyond that...
E & B - tanked..... nuff said...
Of every MMO out there right now... I would still be more likely to play DAoC than any other... mainly because it offers the best combination of all available common elements.
As it is I dont play any... because having already spent nearly 2 years in DAoC, Im over it... and basically nothing is worth my $10 / month. I have a CoV pre-order... that will have to do for now.
Oh and I have RV Beta.... so thats helping me not have to pay for anything too....
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Read, study, and hope it becomes reality. IF immersion is what you want, this will be it. The forums are the nicest in the industry that I have been on. Very welcoming.
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.
Read, study, and hope it becomes reality. IF immersion is what you want, this will be it. The forums are the nicest in the industry that I have been on. Very welcoming.
Yeah its looking ok
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Originally posted by fulmanfu Does anyone else think its sad that, 4 years after its release a mmorpg better than DaoC has not been released yet.? im not saying its an awesome game, but its dam good. i know some decent ones have come out, but not a better, well rounded game with solid pvp and pve environment. class choices. and staying power, thats the main thing(i.e. WoW, CoH). 4 years, you would think something would have left it in the dust by now.
Agreed.and all the new MMOs coming out seem like crap(except DnL and //fragment) other than that, I don't expect anything good from the dozens of new "next-gen" MMORPGs :Ageofconan,atriach,Autoassult,D&Donlline: just to name a few.I'm getting sick and tired..
DAoC is a very good mmorpg. But i think WoW blew it out of the water.
In the end, you end up doing the same stuff in DAoC. Mythic just doesnt add new content.... A few new classes and zones are great but, there hasnt been much improvement in BG or RvR since its release.
Originally posted by Zerocool032 DAoC is a very good mmorpg. But i think WoW blew it out of the water. In the end, you end up doing the same stuff in DAoC. Mythic just doesnt add new content.... A few new classes and zones are great but, there hasnt been much improvement in BG or RvR since its release.
If I may speak for fulmanfu and DAoC having only played it for 2 weeks, the PVP was meaningful in DAoC. WoW PVP is pointless and meaningless largely due the your title being lost if you even have to take a short bathroom break. Plus RVR blows any part of WoW PVP back into the age of Pong. WoW was ultra fun though for me till the charm wore off. They are all EQ clones though *hides*
MMORPGs are at their peak of popularity in the US right now. World of Warcraft is reaching new heights. Your thoughts of "crap" are personal but in the grand scheme this is truly the age when the genre was mainstreamed in the US. Think about where we've come- Meridian 59, total piece of crap. Ultima Online- a game with a strong emphasis on interaction with other players outside of grouping to kill mobs, complete with houses, taverns, towns, etc. with live events hosted by game masters. Everquest, sort of defining Ultima Online's work but nonetheless revolutionizing with 3d graphics, strong teamwork for fighting NPCs, mild PVP, playeable races, etc. Then, DAOC with it's strong emphasis on war, improved graphics and more. World of Warcraft- an aim for something "less than real" with highly detailed, cartoony (but somehow defy the stupid look) and humorous look at fantasy while still maintaining a deep storyline and mainstreaming MMORPGs to a crowd who didnt want to be labeled as the Dungeons and Dragons nerds, also a simple interface that stilled allowed you the freedom that people feel in Everquest. We've had some short stops, like FFXI which made no improvements to the MMORPG society. But the genre itself is making leaps and bounds as Saga of Ryzom is making functional fantasy ecosystems.
i play on australian servers because racism is acceptable there
Originally posted by Zerocool032 DAoC is a very good mmorpg. But i think WoW blew it out of the water.In the end, you end up doing the same stuff in DAoC. Mythic just doesnt add new content.... A few new classes and zones are great but, there hasnt been much improvement in BG or RvR since its release.
Lets see new things since release:
1. They added realm points and bounty points to RvR that allow for items and new abilites. This was added shortly after luach.
2. Added Darkness Falls
3. Added a dungeon to connect all of the realms, its latest incarnation is called Passage of Conflict.
4. Added BG after launch for players to go to that won't die in one hit.
5. Totally redid RvR and the BG for free. Besides new maps, they added towers and additional siege weapons. You can now knock holes in keeps. Remove the protection of the inner keep as well so that it will not provide protection. You can totally destroy towers and watch them crumple. They have added boats that you can engage in naval combat with using siege weapons.
6. The revamped the realm abilities gained from realm points.
That is just some of the few RvR points added, lets talk about the rest of the game.
1. An entire Raid expansion that added master levels.
2. Player housing and merchants.
3. An inproved guild sytem.
4. A huge amount of new quests.
5. Instanced dungeons.
6. Intro movie and quest that serves as a tutorial for the game.
7. Revamped begining game that is quicker and easier.
8. A teleport system to make it easier to get around.
9. New Epic quests to replace the outdated ones that include better rewards.
10. Coming soon - chapion weapons, champion levels, sub-classing, and player controlled mounts.
You might not like the content and you might prefer to play WoW content. But to suggest that DAOC has not added content to the game, whether it is RvR or not is simply a lie.
Lastly, I will contend that in every game you end up doing the same thing. What are you going to do in WoW once you cap? You can level another toon, you can kill people for a pointless reason, or you can go to their battlegrounds. So explain to me how in WoW you will not end up doing the same thing over and over?
Originally posted by JulianDracos Originally posted by Zerocool032 DAoC is a very good mmorpg. But i think WoW blew it out of the water.In the end, you end up doing the same stuff in DAoC. Mythic just doesnt add new content.... A few new classes and zones are great but, there hasnt been much improvement in BG or RvR since its release.
Lets see new things since release:
1. They added realm points and bounty points to RvR that allow for items and new abilites. This was added shortly after luach.
2. Added Darkness Falls
3. Added a dungeon to connect all of the realms, its latest incarnation is called Passage of Conflict.
4. Added BG after launch for players to go to that won't die in one hit.
5. Totally redid RvR and the BG for free. Besides new maps, they added towers and additional siege weapons. You can now knock holes in keeps. Remove the protection of the inner keep as well so that it will not provide protection. You can totally destroy towers and watch them crumple. They have added boats that you can engage in naval combat with using siege weapons.
6. The revamped the realm abilities gained from realm points.
That is just some of the few RvR points added, lets talk about the rest of the game.
1. An entire Raid expansion that added master levels.
2. Player housing and merchants.
3. An inproved guild sytem.
4. A huge amount of new quests.
5. Instanced dungeons.
6. Intro movie and quest that serves as a tutorial for the game.
7. Revamped begining game that is quicker and easier.
8. A teleport system to make it easier to get around.
9. New Epic quests to replace the outdated ones that include better rewards.
10. Coming soon - chapion weapons, champion levels, sub-classing, and player controlled mounts.
You might not like the content and you might prefer to play WoW content. But to suggest that DAOC has not added content to the game, whether it is RvR or not is simply a lie.
Lastly, I will contend that in every game you end up doing the same thing. What are you going to do in WoW once you cap? You can level another toon, you can kill people for a pointless reason, or you can go to their battlegrounds. So explain to me how in WoW you will not end up doing the same thing over and over?
I said RvR and battlegrounds. DAoC has been out for 4 years? no? WoW already added more than DAoC did for their pvp
Well, like i said, capturing relics , towers , and keeps is over and over and over gets boring after a period of time.
And WoW is more rewarding for PvP. In DAoC you get Realm points that give you abilities. WoW gives you new armor, weapons, faction, and fame.
And most of the stuff you listed was what they added in a 4 year period, half of wich is useless and doesnt matter in endgame (ex. beginning quests, tutorial, intro movie, improved guild system, teleport system) what does that have to do with PvP?
Im not saying DAoC is a bad mmo, its very good and PvP is better than WoW, my point is, its not as rewarding as it should be, and Mythic needs to add new stuff to keep people interested.
Im sorry but ive tried pretty much all the games in the top ten of the mmorpg.com list and saga of ryzom is still far better than the others for imersion and fun, its only fault is there isnt so many people there any more.
I did try Daoc, and stopped after a week or so, just didnt cut it
I said RvR and battlegrounds. DAoC has been out for 4 years? no? WoW already added more than DAoC did for their pvp
Well, like i said, capturing relics , towers , and keeps is over and over and over gets boring after a period of time.
And WoW is more rewarding for PvP. In DAoC you get Realm points that give you abilities. WoW gives you new armor, weapons, faction, and fame.
And most of the stuff you listed was what they added in a 4 year period, half of wich is useless and doesnt matter in endgame (ex. beginning quests, tutorial, intro movie, improved guild system, teleport system) what does that have to do with PvP?
Ok so let me get this straight - DAOC adds BG that doesn't count. WoW adds BG and that does count?
Totally redoing all of the frontier zones and adding new aspects to conquest doesn't count, but the BG do count? Something I should like to point out here. The BG were inteneded to be released with WoW but it got delayed. So the fact that they finally finished that after the game was released should not really qualify as them adding 'more content.'
Gaining realm abilities is not a big deal, but gaming armor is?
Sorry if I find your criteria baffeling and assinine but it simply does not make any sense.
In DAOC you now have droped armor, DF armor, Aurulite Armor from Cats, player crafted armor, artifacts, and now redone epic armor. So why would DAOC need to add new armor as a reward? There is very little room for improvement in terms of armor.
Fame? Hmm DAOC grants titles based on realm rank, enemies killed, towers taken, keeps taken, dragons killed, and death blows. Further big milestones are marked in the Social window and reported of the Camelot Herald website.
Faction? Serves no purpose in RvR in DAOC. I think every Albion has bad faction with Hibernia and Midgard.
Realm Rank gives bonues to skills. Realm abilites are far more useful and powerful than anything we could be given in armor.
With the new expansion you will be able to gain Champion Weapons and levels. One of the paths you can take is by killing enemies in the front.
As for getting boring doing the same thing over and over, I fail to see how WoW is any different. You can camp an area and kill people. Nothing to conquer just kill. Or you can go to their BG. So how are those in any way less repetative than what is done in DAOC?
So lets review - WoW added BG -somthing that should have been done prior to release. DAOC comes with RvR at release and then adds BG later. DAOC then redoes all of the BG and the front.
WoW adds a reward system for PvP. DAOC added that shortly after release.
So where is the huge amount of content that WoW has added to PvP that dwarfs DAOC?
As for getting boring doing the same thing over and over, I fail to see how WoW is any different. You can camp an area and kill people. Nothing to conquer just kill. Or you can go to their BG. So how are those in any way less repetative than what is done in DAOC?
Yup thats very true.... and as someone else noted... PvP/RvR in DAoC is meaningful. In WoW its meaningless...
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Originally posted by Zerocool032 DAoC is a very good mmorpg. But i think WoW blew it out of the water. In the end, you end up doing the same stuff in DAoC. Mythic just doesnt add new content.... A few new classes and zones are great but, there hasnt been much improvement in BG or RvR since its release.
Huh? no improvements In RvR? That's strange...what was the free Frontiers expansion then?
I'm a veteran MMO player, starting in a little-known game called Meridian59, which was actually the game that started it all. Back then, they called it a "graphical MUD." This was before UO and Sierra's game, "The Realm." I since have played UO, EQ, AO, EQ2, DAoC, Eve, WoW, CoH, and AC. In fact, I've beta tested for all of them except for UO & DAoC. Each definitely does have its appeal, but of them all I kept coming back to DAoC. For me, it was a mix; PvP - which I will refer to as RvR throughout the duration of this post, PvE (i.e. content), crafting, housing, and best of all, a great community.
Out of all those elements, I admit that it is the community - and the resulting friends I've found - that has me coming back again and again. There's some things that just can't be replaced, like m friend Sean's "4,000 mile belch" over voicechat, traveling from London, England to Cleveland, OH. Or playing 'bait' for any albions that would wonder by as my assassin friends hid nearby - all while we were talking about the planned cookout at the guildmaster's house. (actually, I was shocked, Sean - from London - actually flew in for it!) When it comes down to it, the other games I've played - except for maybe the original EQ - has not managed to promote that kind of community. Oh sure, I've tried, but it just wasn't the same....but anyhow, on to my other comments.
Someone mentioned that DAoC was primarily for those who enjoy PvP/RvR gameplay, but I strongly disagree. Throughout all of its expansions - Frontiers being the obvious exception - a lot of PvE gameplay has been added. Races, classes, zones, quests, items, storylines, housing, etc, etc. It has been very interesting to say the least.
Someone also mentioned something concerning the fact that once you reach level 50, you pretty much don't have anything to do. Again, I strongly disagree. When DAoC was FIRST RELEASED I'd have to agree with you, but not now. As it stands, once you reach level 50 with your character, it is likely you've only explored half the game. Once you reach level 50, you gain the ability to try other race/classes within the same realm, with the ability to quickly /level up to 20 - a reward for having reached level 50. In the ToA expansion, they introduced master levels (think of it as prestige classes), as well as artifacts - items that 'level up.' that add further functionality and advancement opportunities for your character(s) in both a RvR and RvE setting. The Catacombs expansion added to this, by introducing new epic quests, with better epic equipment that could be used in both RvR and RvE, not to mention 5 new classes (2 mid/2 hib/1alb), and a lot of other stuff that would be simply too long to get into here. Lastly, the upcoming expansion, "Darkness Rising" will include quests, zones, horses, and better weapons/items - all of which can be used in both RvR and RvE. They also introduce another set of prestige classes - champion levels - as well as the ability to sub-class for those who continue to enjoy the 'endgame' content.
I know I've not mentioned all that is available, but my entire point is that Mythic continues to provide content for players of every level, and subsequently keeps the game energized. (an idea SOE 'borrowed' for their game EQ2, and built upon - adventure pack anyone?)
Am I saying DAoC is the best? Perhaps not in the grand scheme of things, but for me personally, it is.
Originally posted by Zerocool032 Originally posted by JulianDracos Originally posted by Zerocool032 DAoC is a very good mmorpg. But i think WoW blew it out of the water.In the end, you end up doing the same stuff in DAoC. Mythic just doesnt add new content.... A few new classes and zones are great but, there hasnt been much improvement in BG or RvR since its release.
Lets see new things since release:
1. They added realm points and bounty points to RvR that allow for items and new abilites. This was added shortly after luach.
2. Added Darkness Falls
3. Added a dungeon to connect all of the realms, its latest incarnation is called Passage of Conflict.
4. Added BG after launch for players to go to that won't die in one hit.
5. Totally redid RvR and the BG for free. Besides new maps, they added towers and additional siege weapons. You can now knock holes in keeps. Remove the protection of the inner keep as well so that it will not provide protection. You can totally destroy towers and watch them crumple. They have added boats that you can engage in naval combat with using siege weapons.
6. The revamped the realm abilities gained from realm points.
That is just some of the few RvR points added, lets talk about the rest of the game.
1. An entire Raid expansion that added master levels.
2. Player housing and merchants.
3. An inproved guild sytem.
4. A huge amount of new quests.
5. Instanced dungeons.
6. Intro movie and quest that serves as a tutorial for the game.
7. Revamped begining game that is quicker and easier.
8. A teleport system to make it easier to get around.
9. New Epic quests to replace the outdated ones that include better rewards.
10. Coming soon - chapion weapons, champion levels, sub-classing, and player controlled mounts.
You might not like the content and you might prefer to play WoW content. But to suggest that DAOC has not added content to the game, whether it is RvR or not is simply a lie.
Lastly, I will contend that in every game you end up doing the same thing. What are you going to do in WoW once you cap? You can level another toon, you can kill people for a pointless reason, or you can go to their battlegrounds. So explain to me how in WoW you will not end up doing the same thing over and over?
I said RvR and battlegrounds. DAoC has been out for 4 years? no? WoW already added more than DAoC did for their pvp
Well, like i said, capturing relics , towers , and keeps is over and over and over gets boring after a period of time.
And WoW is more rewarding for PvP. In DAoC you get Realm points that give you abilities. WoW gives you new armor, weapons, faction, and fame.
And most of the stuff you listed was what they added in a 4 year period, half of wich is useless and doesnt matter in endgame (ex. beginning quests, tutorial, intro movie, improved guild system, teleport system) what does that have to do with PvP?
Im not saying DAoC is a bad mmo, its very good and PvP is better than WoW, my point is, its not as rewarding as it should be, and Mythic needs to add new stuff to keep people interested.
The pvp rewards in WoW suck comapred to the PvE. YOu get better armor from MC than you do AV or WSG. Getting new abilities > armor and weapons lol
If you post again, please, please be able to backup what you are talking about as you obivously have no idea, next have a point, then make sure your point has any kind of basis to it.
I'm surprised that people have been so easy on you so far on this post. Now, I don't hate WoW, I just got bored with MC so I quit, who knows I may pick up my DAoC account again.
Comments
No offense but this is all opinion folks. All of the games that have been mentioned are high quality games but they appeal to different styles of player. DAOC appeals to those who enjoy RVR combat and are PVP lovers. For those who could care less about PVP or don't play strictly for PVP DAOC sucks. Personally I can take or leave PVP. I enjoy it but it's not the sole reason I play an MMORPG so DAOC is "ok" to me but there are better games out there for me that suit my style better.
I can see where someone would love DAOC... I played it for over a year after all... but to say nothing better has come along is purely personal opinion. Some love it, some don't, some love other things more. Calling a game that's over 3 years old the Pinnacle of the MMORPG industry is just ludicrous. It's crafting system is sub par. It has no non-combat professions at all because even crafters have to make their initial investment money via combat (unless someone gives them an economic windfall) It's economy is crap because items never leave the system and the PVP is repetitive and boring. I mena, c'mon now, how many times can you swap the same territory over and over? RVR serves no real purpose in DAOC other than to kill each other. Territory in that game changes hands faster than a dollar bill at McDonalds.
It's a great game... And the RVR system was revolutionary and really should be picked up by another game. But to say it's the pinnacle of MMORPG's? I don't think so.
But again: That's my personal opinion. I think Ryzom's Outposts are going to blow RVR in DAOC away once they are implemented. Could be wrong since it's not IN yet but it looks very promising. I think the PVP in SWG was superior to DAOC as well and the PVP in EVE is FAR superior than DAOC and more balanced and territory means a lot more too.
DAOC is a great game but to say it's the best and nothing else is better? Nah... that's just personal opinion
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I think people are getting caught up in the opinion of the original post and not the substantive part of it. Part of what the original post was talking about was that after 4 years there has yet to be another game come out that has added anything substantial to gameplay. It is mostly all been steamlining and working on the same model.
Vanguard is just a new version of the original EQ.
WoW is just a single player version of EQ.
SoR - not enough time to trash this game. They have skill based - but not the first. The only thing really new is Ryzom Outpost which if I understand it correctly allows people to add their own content to the game. That is at least something new.
DAOC can appeal to the PvE and PvP aspects of the game. It allowed custom UI. Because of the 100,000 people that left EQ to start playing DAOC, EQ had to finally work on improving their game and all of their initial improvments were just doing what DAOC did. DAOC always updated the graphics with every expansion.
So sure the original poster if claiming this is the best game, which can be seen as opinion. On the other hand his statement on the surface seems to be true in that in 4 years there has been little added to the fantasy genre in terms of game play or ideas.
You can hate DAOC or like it. It does not take away from the original post in that it seems rather sad that the mmorpg market has games that are still working off of a basic formula and not trying anything substantially new.
What games have you been playing? I've played about 5 better than DAOC
member of imminst.org
What games have you been playing? I've played about 5 better than DAOC
I am curious what 5 you have played that are better in your opinion?
Lets see... games that have added new ideas to the Genre since DAOC:
1) Shadowbane. While badly implemented the idea of being able to create entire cities and have them taken over by enemy guilds was a very interesting twist. True land control...
2) SWG... A truely open ended character growth system where you are not locked into one profession from creation to deletion. The ability to impact the control of entire planets through factional wars and player verses player fighting. The ability to craft without ever touching a weapon of your own. The ability to impact the game, dramatically, without ever leaving town. The ability to create beautiful cities that are 100% player run.
3) EVE... The first skill system that doesn't require 'grinding' just time. A security based PVP system that has policed areas where trying to attack another player will get you killed but also allows for open full PVP combat. And even in the 'policed' areas you CAN attack but will face dire consequences. A deep and involved economy.
4) EverQuest II: Truely innovative and entertaining quest storylines that build upon each other. Very few MMO's prior to this did more than a nod at 'epic' quests. EQII, however, is riddled with them.
5) Saga of Ryzom: An evolving world that undergoes seasonal changes. Player created content in the form of the upcoming Ryzom Ring where players can create their own "zones" and allow other players to enjoy them as part of the entire game. Outpost combat which is reminiscent of both RVR in DAOC and Guild Warfare in Shadowbane but with it's own unique twist to make it less 'land swap' intensive and more realistic at the same time. Interactive creature/npc AI where different creatures will assist or attack each other, or come to the assistance of one another against players, even outside the species/clan.
6) WOW: Which took all sorts of ideas and simplified them, bringing in MILLIONS of new people to the Genre. If you are so ready to dismiss this single accomplishment, possibly the BIGGEST and MOST IMPORTANT accomplishment of any game in the Genre then you are foolish.
7) Horizons: Playable Dragons anyone? The ability to fly? (Can't say crafting since SWG already had that and did it better, imo). One of very few games with the ability to HARVEST the things you need for crafting rather than having to acquire money through killing things in order to buy components (EQ, DAOC). SWG & UO beat it to it but it is still one of very few to do it.
8) Earth & Beyond: Story arcs that actually changed the universe and the gameplay. Evolving quests that actually get phased out over time as the storyline passes them by. A player starting on the first day had an entirely different story arc in the quests in E&B than a player who joined a year later. (AC1 also did this)
Again, don't get me wrong. DAOC did a lot of great things and it is a great game. But it's neither the "Best" nor the "Pinnacle" and it certainly isn't the only MMORPG to have brought something new to the table.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
something tells me..conquer,iro,rose,flyff,and maple story are what he has in mind
to elnator,
daoc is not about rvr soley. i saw you say you played for a year, it was most likely not recently, but with cats it honestly is every bit the pve game that anything else on this list is. you can quest your way from 1-50 in cats alone give or take a few td's. the new epic's are really cool as well. i went back to daoc after trying everything else for 3 years between my first and second go at it, and yeah it is just my opinion but im right (hehe jk)
another thing is sure WoW has great pve i guess, but to me i dont like that there are 1000 of my clones running aruond. in daoc i play on a server that has about 1k+ people at primetime and i have 2 chars that i can honesly say there aren't more than 5 like me on the server.
i do hope trials of ascension makes it, and keeps to thier ideas. ive been watching it, visiting forums, getting emails about it for some time. i'm also looking forward, scepticly , to DnL and tabula rasa. the waiting is killing me though.:/
[quote]
Lets see... games that have added new ideas to the Genre since DAOC:
1) Shadowbane. While badly implemented the idea of being able to create entire cities and have them taken over by enemy guilds was a very interesting twist. True land control...
2) SWG... A truely open ended character growth system where you are not locked into one profession from creation to deletion. The ability to impact the control of entire planets through factional wars and player verses player fighting. The ability to craft without ever touching a weapon of your own. The ability to impact the game, dramatically, without ever leaving town. The ability to create beautiful cities that are 100% player run.
3) EVE... The first skill system that doesn't require 'grinding' just time. A security based PVP system that has policed areas where trying to attack another player will get you killed but also allows for open full PVP combat. And even in the 'policed' areas you CAN attack but will face dire consequences. A deep and involved economy.
4) EverQuest II: Truely innovative and entertaining quest storylines that build upon each other. Very few MMO's prior to this did more than a nod at 'epic' quests. EQII, however, is riddled with them.
5) Saga of Ryzom: An evolving world that undergoes seasonal changes. Player created content in the form of the upcoming Ryzom Ring where players can create their own "zones" and allow other players to enjoy them as part of the entire game. Outpost combat which is reminiscent of both RVR in DAOC and Guild Warfare in Shadowbane but with it's own unique twist to make it less 'land swap' intensive and more realistic at the same time. Interactive creature/npc AI where different creatures will assist or attack each other, or come to the assistance of one another against players, even outside the species/clan.
6) WOW: Which took all sorts of ideas and simplified them, bringing in MILLIONS of new people to the Genre. If you are so ready to dismiss this single accomplishment, possibly the BIGGEST and MOST IMPORTANT accomplishment of any game in the Genre then you are foolish.
7) Horizons: Playable Dragons anyone? The ability to fly? (Can't say crafting since SWG already had that and did it better, imo). One of very few games with the ability to HARVEST the things you need for crafting rather than having to acquire money through killing things in order to buy components (EQ, DAOC). SWG & UO beat it to it but it is still one of very few to do it.
8) Earth & Beyond: Story arcs that actually changed the universe and the gameplay. Evolving quests that actually get phased out over time as the storyline passes them by. A player starting on the first day had an entirely different story arc in the quests in E&B than a player who joined a year later. (AC1 also did this)
Again, don't get me wrong. DAOC did a lot of great things and it is a great game. But it's neither the "Best" nor the "Pinnacle" and it certainly isn't the only MMORPG to have brought something new to the table.[/b][/quote]
1. Shadowbane - the idea seems on par with AC2 in many respects but building on those. Perhaps this might count.
2. SWG - player run cities. That is new, but then taken from Shadowbane, which was taken from AC2. They were the first 'big' skill based system. But you do not really have much impact. The poor choice of when the set the game everyone knows what is going to happen. It is not as though the core planents will be taken over in the game crush the Rebal Alliance. I wouldn't say you can make a dramatic impact on the world without leaving your town either.
3. Eve - never played so do not want to get into it.
4. EQ2 - having good quests and story arches is not new. At best you can say they have more of them and better ones, but this would not qualiify as something innovative - just better in some aspect than before.
5. SoR - they have seasons, well that counts as fluff. The player created content is new and I admitted that - yet it has not come out yet.
6. WoW - having the largest mmorpg is an accomplisment - BUT NOT IN TERMS OF INOVATIVE GAMEPLAY! They made a nice and easy mmorpg and it is extremely successful. I would not say that this counts as an innovation just an improvement of what already was.
7. Horizons - I would say of what you mentioned it is the least of what it actually did add. I tend to forget about this game because it was such crap. But there were some very good and unique gameplay ideas, it simply didn't work.
8. Earth and Beyond - you already mentioned that AC1 did that.
So yes there have been a few real additions to gameplay that were not simply improvments on the old model. However, you would expect more in the time frame. I think Horizons might be an example of why. Do something new and if you do not do it well, people will not want to copy it. So people copy the tried and true method with improvement and additional fluff to try and make it unique.
Not flaming JD but since this thread is pretty much agreed to be about opinion... then heres my 2c on those games... all of which I have played...
Shadowbane - Poorly implemented... we could leave it right there... but I will add that a pile of good ideas is about all it was... I have some good ideas too... but I dont claim to be a dev..
SWG - possibly the most disapointing MMO to date. The CU basically brought the game to release quality in terms of balance, as for content.... J to the O to the K to the E
Eve - The only MMO since DAoC to offer anything like a quality alternative. I agree with you 100% its probably the next best thing on the market. But only if you like being stuck in a cockpit.
EQ2 - *ambulance sirens* "give him 500mg of Adrenalin I think hes going into a boredom induced coma".... Norath transforms into the land of yawns...
Saga of Ryzom - way to much like L2 for my liking... childish, simplistic, more like a console game than a proper MMO
WoW - again Im with you 100%, whilst I personally found it pretty grindish after 40 and gave it away. I can see why it appeals to people and Id say on the whole its done more good than harm to the industry.
Horizons - If there was a gold medal for potential, horizons would win it hands down... beyond that...
E & B - tanked..... nuff said...
Of every MMO out there right now... I would still be more likely to play DAoC than any other... mainly because it offers the best combination of all available common elements.
As it is I dont play any... because having already spent nearly 2 years in DAoC, Im over it... and basically nothing is worth my $10 / month. I have a CoV pre-order... that will have to do for now.
Oh and I have RV Beta.... so thats helping me not have to pay for anything too....
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
www.shadowpool.com
Read, study, and hope it becomes reality. IF immersion is what you want, this will be it. The forums are the nicest in the industry that I have been on. Very welcoming.
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Agreed.and all the new MMOs coming out seem like crap(except DnL and //fragment) other than that, I don't expect anything good from the dozens of new "next-gen" MMORPGs :Ageofconan,atriach,Autoassult,D&Donlline: just to name a few.I'm getting sick and tired..
dobule post
DAoC is a very good mmorpg. But i think WoW blew it out of the water.
In the end, you end up doing the same stuff in DAoC. Mythic just doesnt add new content.... A few new classes and zones are great but, there hasnt been much improvement in BG or RvR since its release.
Lets see new things since release:
1. They added realm points and bounty points to RvR that allow for items and new abilites. This was added shortly after luach.
2. Added Darkness Falls
3. Added a dungeon to connect all of the realms, its latest incarnation is called Passage of Conflict.
4. Added BG after launch for players to go to that won't die in one hit.
5. Totally redid RvR and the BG for free. Besides new maps, they added towers and additional siege weapons. You can now knock holes in keeps. Remove the protection of the inner keep as well so that it will not provide protection. You can totally destroy towers and watch them crumple. They have added boats that you can engage in naval combat with using siege weapons.
6. The revamped the realm abilities gained from realm points.
That is just some of the few RvR points added, lets talk about the rest of the game.
1. An entire Raid expansion that added master levels.
2. Player housing and merchants.
3. An inproved guild sytem.
4. A huge amount of new quests.
5. Instanced dungeons.
6. Intro movie and quest that serves as a tutorial for the game.
7. Revamped begining game that is quicker and easier.
8. A teleport system to make it easier to get around.
9. New Epic quests to replace the outdated ones that include better rewards.
10. Coming soon - chapion weapons, champion levels, sub-classing, and player controlled mounts.
You might not like the content and you might prefer to play WoW content. But to suggest that DAOC has not added content to the game, whether it is RvR or not is simply a lie.
Lastly, I will contend that in every game you end up doing the same thing. What are you going to do in WoW once you cap? You can level another toon, you can kill people for a pointless reason, or you can go to their battlegrounds. So explain to me how in WoW you will not end up doing the same thing over and over?
Lets see new things since release:
1. They added realm points and bounty points to RvR that allow for items and new abilites. This was added shortly after luach.
2. Added Darkness Falls
3. Added a dungeon to connect all of the realms, its latest incarnation is called Passage of Conflict.
4. Added BG after launch for players to go to that won't die in one hit.
5. Totally redid RvR and the BG for free. Besides new maps, they added towers and additional siege weapons. You can now knock holes in keeps. Remove the protection of the inner keep as well so that it will not provide protection. You can totally destroy towers and watch them crumple. They have added boats that you can engage in naval combat with using siege weapons.
6. The revamped the realm abilities gained from realm points.
That is just some of the few RvR points added, lets talk about the rest of the game.
1. An entire Raid expansion that added master levels.
2. Player housing and merchants.
3. An inproved guild sytem.
4. A huge amount of new quests.
5. Instanced dungeons.
6. Intro movie and quest that serves as a tutorial for the game.
7. Revamped begining game that is quicker and easier.
8. A teleport system to make it easier to get around.
9. New Epic quests to replace the outdated ones that include better rewards.
10. Coming soon - chapion weapons, champion levels, sub-classing, and player controlled mounts.
You might not like the content and you might prefer to play WoW content. But to suggest that DAOC has not added content to the game, whether it is RvR or not is simply a lie.
Lastly, I will contend that in every game you end up doing the same thing. What are you going to do in WoW once you cap? You can level another toon, you can kill people for a pointless reason, or you can go to their battlegrounds. So explain to me how in WoW you will not end up doing the same thing over and over?
I said RvR and battlegrounds. DAoC has been out for 4 years? no? WoW already added more than DAoC did for their pvp
Well, like i said, capturing relics , towers , and keeps is over and over and over gets boring after a period of time.
And WoW is more rewarding for PvP. In DAoC you get Realm points that give you abilities. WoW gives you new armor, weapons, faction, and fame.
And most of the stuff you listed was what they added in a 4 year period, half of wich is useless and doesnt matter in endgame (ex. beginning quests, tutorial, intro movie, improved guild system, teleport system) what does that have to do with PvP?
Im not saying DAoC is a bad mmo, its very good and PvP is better than WoW, my point is, its not as rewarding as it should be, and Mythic needs to add new stuff to keep people interested.
zero you do know that bg's werent in daoc at release right?
what has wow added? bg's?
Im sorry but ive tried pretty much all the games in the top ten of the mmorpg.com list and saga of ryzom is still far better than the others for imersion and fun, its only fault is there isnt so many people there any more.
I did try Daoc, and stopped after a week or so, just didnt cut it
Ok so let me get this straight - DAOC adds BG that doesn't count. WoW adds BG and that does count?
Totally redoing all of the frontier zones and adding new aspects to conquest doesn't count, but the BG do count? Something I should like to point out here. The BG were inteneded to be released with WoW but it got delayed. So the fact that they finally finished that after the game was released should not really qualify as them adding 'more content.'
Gaining realm abilities is not a big deal, but gaming armor is?
Sorry if I find your criteria baffeling and assinine but it simply does not make any sense.
In DAOC you now have droped armor, DF armor, Aurulite Armor from Cats, player crafted armor, artifacts, and now redone epic armor. So why would DAOC need to add new armor as a reward? There is very little room for improvement in terms of armor.
Fame? Hmm DAOC grants titles based on realm rank, enemies killed, towers taken, keeps taken, dragons killed, and death blows. Further big milestones are marked in the Social window and reported of the Camelot Herald website.
Faction? Serves no purpose in RvR in DAOC. I think every Albion has bad faction with Hibernia and Midgard.
Realm Rank gives bonues to skills. Realm abilites are far more useful and powerful than anything we could be given in armor.
With the new expansion you will be able to gain Champion Weapons and levels. One of the paths you can take is by killing enemies in the front.
As for getting boring doing the same thing over and over, I fail to see how WoW is any different. You can camp an area and kill people. Nothing to conquer just kill. Or you can go to their BG. So how are those in any way less repetative than what is done in DAOC?
So lets review - WoW added BG -somthing that should have been done prior to release. DAOC comes with RvR at release and then adds BG later. DAOC then redoes all of the BG and the front.
WoW adds a reward system for PvP. DAOC added that shortly after release.
So where is the huge amount of content that WoW has added to PvP that dwarfs DAOC?
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Personally I am looking at RF Online right now, I think this is looking hot..... However will it be enough to tear me away from EQ2 ;-)
Huh? no improvements In RvR? That's strange...what was the free Frontiers expansion then?
I'm a veteran MMO player, starting in a little-known game called Meridian59, which was actually the game that started it all. Back then, they called it a "graphical MUD." This was before UO and Sierra's game, "The Realm." I since have played UO, EQ, AO, EQ2, DAoC, Eve, WoW, CoH, and AC. In fact, I've beta tested for all of them except for UO & DAoC. Each definitely does have its appeal, but of them all I kept coming back to DAoC. For me, it was a mix; PvP - which I will refer to as RvR throughout the duration of this post, PvE (i.e. content), crafting, housing, and best of all, a great community.
Out of all those elements, I admit that it is the community - and the resulting friends I've found - that has me coming back again and again. There's some things that just can't be replaced, like m friend Sean's "4,000 mile belch" over voicechat, traveling from London, England to Cleveland, OH. Or playing 'bait' for any albions that would wonder by as my assassin friends hid nearby - all while we were talking about the planned cookout at the guildmaster's house. (actually, I was shocked, Sean - from London - actually flew in for it!) When it comes down to it, the other games I've played - except for maybe the original EQ - has not managed to promote that kind of community. Oh sure, I've tried, but it just wasn't the same....but anyhow, on to my other comments.
Someone mentioned that DAoC was primarily for those who enjoy PvP/RvR gameplay, but I strongly disagree. Throughout all of its expansions - Frontiers being the obvious exception - a lot of PvE gameplay has been added. Races, classes, zones, quests, items, storylines, housing, etc, etc. It has been very interesting to say the least.
Someone also mentioned something concerning the fact that once you reach level 50, you pretty much don't have anything to do. Again, I strongly disagree. When DAoC was FIRST RELEASED I'd have to agree with you, but not now. As it stands, once you reach level 50 with your character, it is likely you've only explored half the game. Once you reach level 50, you gain the ability to try other race/classes within the same realm, with the ability to quickly /level up to 20 - a reward for having reached level 50. In the ToA expansion, they introduced master levels (think of it as prestige classes), as well as artifacts - items that 'level up.' that add further functionality and advancement opportunities for your character(s) in both a RvR and RvE setting. The Catacombs expansion added to this, by introducing new epic quests, with better epic equipment that could be used in both RvR and RvE, not to mention 5 new classes (2 mid/2 hib/1alb), and a lot of other stuff that would be simply too long to get into here. Lastly, the upcoming expansion, "Darkness Rising" will include quests, zones, horses, and better weapons/items - all of which can be used in both RvR and RvE. They also introduce another set of prestige classes - champion levels - as well as the ability to sub-class for those who continue to enjoy the 'endgame' content.
I know I've not mentioned all that is available, but my entire point is that Mythic continues to provide content for players of every level, and subsequently keeps the game energized. (an idea SOE 'borrowed' for their game EQ2, and built upon - adventure pack anyone?)
Am I saying DAoC is the best? Perhaps not in the grand scheme of things, but for me personally, it is.
Lets see new things since release:
1. They added realm points and bounty points to RvR that allow for items and new abilites. This was added shortly after luach.
2. Added Darkness Falls
3. Added a dungeon to connect all of the realms, its latest incarnation is called Passage of Conflict.
4. Added BG after launch for players to go to that won't die in one hit.
5. Totally redid RvR and the BG for free. Besides new maps, they added towers and additional siege weapons. You can now knock holes in keeps. Remove the protection of the inner keep as well so that it will not provide protection. You can totally destroy towers and watch them crumple. They have added boats that you can engage in naval combat with using siege weapons.
6. The revamped the realm abilities gained from realm points.
That is just some of the few RvR points added, lets talk about the rest of the game.
1. An entire Raid expansion that added master levels.
2. Player housing and merchants.
3. An inproved guild sytem.
4. A huge amount of new quests.
5. Instanced dungeons.
6. Intro movie and quest that serves as a tutorial for the game.
7. Revamped begining game that is quicker and easier.
8. A teleport system to make it easier to get around.
9. New Epic quests to replace the outdated ones that include better rewards.
10. Coming soon - chapion weapons, champion levels, sub-classing, and player controlled mounts.
You might not like the content and you might prefer to play WoW content. But to suggest that DAOC has not added content to the game, whether it is RvR or not is simply a lie.
Lastly, I will contend that in every game you end up doing the same thing. What are you going to do in WoW once you cap? You can level another toon, you can kill people for a pointless reason, or you can go to their battlegrounds. So explain to me how in WoW you will not end up doing the same thing over and over?
I said RvR and battlegrounds. DAoC has been out for 4 years? no? WoW already added more than DAoC did for their pvp
Well, like i said, capturing relics , towers , and keeps is over and over and over gets boring after a period of time.
And WoW is more rewarding for PvP. In DAoC you get Realm points that give you abilities. WoW gives you new armor, weapons, faction, and fame.
And most of the stuff you listed was what they added in a 4 year period, half of wich is useless and doesnt matter in endgame (ex. beginning quests, tutorial, intro movie, improved guild system, teleport system) what does that have to do with PvP?
Im not saying DAoC is a bad mmo, its very good and PvP is better than WoW, my point is, its not as rewarding as it should be, and Mythic needs to add new stuff to keep people interested.
The pvp rewards in WoW suck comapred to the PvE. YOu get better armor from MC than you do AV or WSG. Getting new abilities > armor and weapons lol
If you post again, please, please be able to backup what you are talking about as you obivously have no idea, next have a point, then make sure your point has any kind of basis to it.
I'm surprised that people have been so easy on you so far on this post. Now, I don't hate WoW, I just got bored with MC so I quit, who knows I may pick up my DAoC account again.