All developers of these games should be happy with 300k active subscriptions. If that is too small of a number for a developer, then they should look to make game's in other genres of gaming.
That's a pretty good point. Set your budget for realistic box sales/ subs and plan accordingly. Then, if you have a success on your hands, you can add more content / features.
If the budget you come to isn't enough to make the game you want...then don't make it.
You Know if swtor wanted to rebound instead of free to play make it buy to play lik GW2 free to play has so many traps. also GW2 has the best PVP ive played since SWG massive world PVP events. but this time the tech is there for them to happen i never lagged even when are keep was being siedged by a few hundred players. was insane fun.
But i get the feeling they might be in post apoch mode at BW. they just want to save it someway to make EA happy so i don't expect them to do it right.
Swtor need a better engine and the cost of re-launching would be huge.sad stuff man but shit happens.
Really?
With F2P the game is literally free and you're able to see whether or not its fun (and therefore worth paying for.) Not much of a trap.
Meanwhile with a B2P game, the only clue you have of whether it's fun is advertising (not realiable at all) or reviews (not much better.) Quite a bit of a trap if the game turns out bad.
Don't really think TOR needs a better engine. Just better gameplay. When every fight plays the exact same because only 5% of your monsters have any abilities at all, that's a serious problem of repetition. When you have conversations in a multiplayer setting and the conversations aren't different each time you participate in them (and therefore old after the first time you see them), that's a serious problem. When you lack a dungeon finder in a game whose grouping might actually be fun, that's a serious problem (though this one might be fixed by now?)
But, better gameplay or no, the game is going to do better as F2P. Virtually all games do. It's better for players and better for developers.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You can already see the signs of dissention in Guild Wars 2's official forums. One player complains that Guild Wars 2's combat isn't anywhere near as action-based as TERA's (and therefore it sucks), another person says leveling feels too much like a grind, and some of ArenaNet's diehards say it feels too different from Guild Wars 1 for their tastes. It's the sort of critical ball that started rolling with blinding speed about a month after Star Wars: The Old Republic's release and led to one of the most negative player backlashes in MMORPG history. But despite all that, I don't think Guild Wars 2 will suffer the same fate. Sure, some of these concerns are valid, but I think ArenaNet has made enough good decisions to keep fans happy.
1. Story Doesn't Get in the Way of Gameplay
Star Wars: The Old Republic's greatest gift to the MMORPG community was the idea that quests didn't have to consist tiny reams of text; instead we learned that they could have all the depth of interactions in games like Mass Effect (if you're willing to throw tens of millions of dollars into the effort). The problem is that most of us treated that gift like I treated the Pogo Ball I got for Christmas in 1985 -- we had fun with it for a few days and then left it to rot in our closets. Doled out in such heavy doses, SWTOR's fully voiced interactions ended up paradoxically subtracting from the MMO experience.
Guild Wars 2 also places a heavy emphasis on voiced storylines, but it doesn't make you carry them around your neck and they don't take precedence over the action. Cinematic interactions usually only pop up during your class questline, leaving you to enjoy them at your leisure so you can spend the rest of your quest time with your friends without such interruptions. GW2's story always stays in the background, as it rightfully should in a genre that revolves around working with other players instead of forging ahead alone. Best of all, you'll never feel like you over-leveled an instanced story quest thanks to GW2's scaling system.
2. Guild Wars 2 Understands MMORPGs Should Be About Player Interaction
Say what you will about the quest structure, think what you might about the dynamic events, but I still think the greatest aspect of Guild Wars 2 is the way it encourages us to play together. Gone are the angry moments when another player swoops in and steals your kill (and thus your quest objectives) in almost every other MMO; instead, you get a rare sense of satisfaction out of helping players in need because both players get experience points for the kill. Guild Wars 2 even forges a mild sense of community by only allowing you to fight alongside server mates in World-versus-World combat, while it also allows some social fluidity by letting you visit another server at your leisure.
I do have my worries about the system, such as the way it sometimes seems to discourage one-on-one chats because you just finish the kill and get on with your lives, but even at its weakest it avoids the sense of isolation that build up while in SWTOR's cinematic world. Even if we don't always talk to other players, we're at least interacting with them, and I think most players will agree that Guild Wars 2 gets that crucial factor right.
3. Guild Wars 2's World Feels Much More Alive
I deeply enjoyed some of the class storylines in SWTOR, but as I played I was always a little disappointed by how little life there seemed to be in the world itself. Patrolling elites essentially dodn't exist, and most clusters of quest enemies just stand around waiting to be attacked. In retrospect, I think this killed the enthusiasm for SWTOR more than any factor -- there's rarely was a sense that you can just go out and slaughter random enemies and get some excitement out of it. Once you leave the vivid cutscenes, most of SWTOR's galaxy is a pretty lifeless place.By contrast, Guild Wars 2's dynamic events go a long way toward breathing a sense of life into the world of Tyria, and I still find myself surprised by the little quirks. Just this weekend I alt-tabbed in what I thought was a safe place northeast of the Norn capital of Hoelbrak, and I tabbed back in to find myself under attack by an enemy I couldn't see at first. It turns out that a bunch of evil Norns were using a trebuchet to hurl rocks at me from what seemed like half a mile away! That... that was so awesome. Tyria earns much of its charm from little touches like that, but even the simple shifts from night to day provide an essential dose of immersion that SWTOR doesn't.
green part is great point. blue is what i tell people.
Oh btw GW and now GW2 Devs are former Blizz employes who helped with the development of vanilla WoW. Now doesn't that make your head spin?
No, because vanilla WoW was actually a good game. And they didn't only work on WoW, they worked on Starcraft, Warcraft 3, coded and designed BattleNet, etc. Those are far greater feats.
And if you're wondering why people aren't taking your opinions seriously: if you can't even get basic facts right about the game such as its payment model, then how are they supposed to believe you when you say you know anything about it?
You Know if swtor wanted to rebound instead of free to play make it buy to play lik GW2 free to play has so many traps. also GW2 has the best PVP ive played since SWG massive world PVP events. but this time the tech is there for them to happen i never lagged even when are keep was being siedged by a few hundred players. was insane fun.
But i get the feeling they might be in post apoch mode at BW. they just want to save it someway to make EA happy so i don't expect them to do it right.
Swtor need a better engine and the cost of re-launching would be huge.sad stuff man but shit happens.
Really?
With F2P the game is literally free and you're able to see whether or not its fun (and therefore worth paying for.) Not much of a trap.
Meanwhile with a B2P game, the only clue you have of whether it's fun is advertising (not realiable at all) or reviews (not much better.) Quite a bit of a trap if the game turns out bad.
Don't really think TOR needs a better engine. Just better gameplay. When every fight plays the exact same because only 5% of your monsters have any abilities at all, that's a serious problem of repetition. When you have conversations in a multiplayer setting and the conversations aren't different each time you participate in them (and therefore old after the first time you see them), that's a serious problem. When you lack a dungeon finder in a game whose grouping might actually be fun, that's a serious problem (though this one might be fixed by now?)
But, better gameplay or no, the game is going to do better as F2P. Virtually all games do. It's better for players and better for developers.
I think the main reason SWTOR could have used a better engine was optimization. The game is one of the worst optimized MMOs to release in the last several years, and it's too late to fix that now. They lost a lot of support (including me) when they failed to properly address this on release.
GW2 is the next Flavor of the month MMO that will lose subs just like evey MMO out now in due time.
I agree with you 100%, except loosing subs, it will just loose players.
I cant wait for this game to release because I dont see any other overly high profile title MMO releasing anytime soon. I think the next one will probably be ESO. There will be two crowds knocking heads in that one. (Themeparkers vs sandboxer arguments will probably reach their climax on ESO). These high profile title just draws in mass ignorance. All of the sudden they are the wow killer, second comming of jesus, and god forbid if you say something other than blind praise an army of brainwashed zombies come in to personally attack you.
Excuse me?? So the second a large group of people finds a game that they *aboslutely love* that you don't disagree with... we're "brainwashed zombies?" Newsflash: a HUGE number of people are looking forward to this game because it's good. Any forum has its bad posters, yes, but the simple fact is, fans of their games cannot stand ignorance or spreading of misinformation. So stop claiming ignorance, find a game you like, and go talk about it. Don't waste your time insulting people and not contributing to the thread.
Dear OP, thats your Fanboys point of view, even worse when you have not played swtor so you know nothing about the game. However i agree in something GW2 world feel more alive than tor, and they have WvWvW, swtor will have opvp content but is not ingame yet, but i can tell you this, after a month of gw2 realease we will find more active players playing swtor than gw2, even when is b2p.
I love Star wars in a my kid is named after a SWG server kind of way, but I call a spade a spade, and ace an ace, a duck a duck, and a fail a fail. GW beta was 3 days of little sleep, carpal tunnel and love. SWTOR beta was sadness, frustration, disgust, and repulsion. GW beat SWTOR the day SWTOR devs decided players liked listening to VO more than actual gameplay. I knew from the character creator the second the game loaded SWTOR was a cash grab, just as I knew GW was made by people that loved the game and loved the characters they created.
A cash grab? Really? There are some companies I'd accuse of making games just to make a quick buck (Zynga, for one), but this isn't one. A lot of people poured their hearts into this game, and if you don't like it, fine. I don't like it either. But I can see where people cared about what they were producing here. Just like people care about GW2. Just like people care(d) about War and EQ and so on. First of all, it's Star Wars. I imagine most people developing the game had a vested interest in seeing something they loved come to the mmo scene again. It's a shame. Maybe they can change it around, but I don't know too many mmo's who've done that successfully.
GW2 has the advantage that if something is broken to the point of people fleeing, if they eventually fix said problem, people can test it out without subscribing again. That's a big plus in my book.
Also I think I'm just getting tired of mmo's. If only someone would take all these disparate good ideas from individual games and make something worthwhile. Good luck finding a publisher willing to back that though. Well now I'm depressed. Thanks stupid thread.
I love Star wars in a my kid is named after a SWG server kind of way, but I call a spade a spade, and ace an ace, a duck a duck, and a fail a fail. GW beta was 3 days of little sleep, carpal tunnel and love. SWTOR beta was sadness, frustration, disgust, and repulsion. GW beat SWTOR the day SWTOR devs decided players liked listening to VO more than actual gameplay. I knew from the character creator the second the game loaded SWTOR was a cash grab, just as I knew GW was made by people that loved the game and loved the characters they created.
A cash grab? Really? There are some companies I'd accuse of making games just to make a quick buck (Zynga, for one), but this isn't one. A lot of people poured their hearts into this game, and if you don't like it, fine. I don't like it either. But I can see where people cared about what they were producing here. Just like people care about GW2. Just like people care(d) about War and EQ and so on. First of all, it's Star Wars. I imagine most people developing the game had a vested interest in seeing something they loved come to the mmo scene again. It's a shame. Maybe they can change it around, but I don't know too many mmo's who've done that successfully.
GW2 has the advantage that if something is broken to the point of people fleeing, if they eventually fix said problem, people can test it out without subscribing again. That's a big plus in my book.
Also I think I'm just getting tired of mmo's. If only someone would take all these disparate good ideas from individual games and make something worthwhile. Good luck finding a publisher willing to back that though. Well now I'm depressed. Thanks stupid thread.
If they really cared for SWTOR then the game would have come out a lot different like actually listening to constructive feedback and not delete/lock threads that put the game in a bad light. The entire developement was a complete blunder and will likely be a "What NOT to do in an MMO Developement." Story aspect was great, but nothing revolutionary as it was jjust a copy and paste of ME series stuff, but teverything else was lacking and a WoW clone. To much betting was on that the IP will carry the game through.
Didn't a BW rep even comment about when question about the game's success in it's development stage by responding "Because it's Star Wars" or something?
I think the main reason SWTOR could have used a better engine was optimization. The game is one of the worst optimized MMOs to release in the last several years, and it's too late to fix that now. They lost a lot of support (including me) when they failed to properly address this on release.
Ah, I guess that's fair criticism then. My computer's pretty fast so I didn't notice.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I like the OPs reasons. But theres one thing SWTOR has over GW2. You will NEVER get the satisfaction of kicking someone where the sun dont shine and blasting them with a shotgun to the back of the head while they writhe in agony in GW2.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
Comments
Oh btw GW and now GW2 Devs are former Blizz employes who helped with the development of vanilla WoW. Now doesn't that make your head spin?
That's a pretty good point. Set your budget for realistic box sales/ subs and plan accordingly. Then, if you have a success on your hands, you can add more content / features.
If the budget you come to isn't enough to make the game you want...then don't make it.
Keyboard sucks any keys sticking due to my love of the dew. retracted until new keyboard.
Really?
With F2P the game is literally free and you're able to see whether or not its fun (and therefore worth paying for.) Not much of a trap.
Meanwhile with a B2P game, the only clue you have of whether it's fun is advertising (not realiable at all) or reviews (not much better.) Quite a bit of a trap if the game turns out bad.
Don't really think TOR needs a better engine. Just better gameplay. When every fight plays the exact same because only 5% of your monsters have any abilities at all, that's a serious problem of repetition. When you have conversations in a multiplayer setting and the conversations aren't different each time you participate in them (and therefore old after the first time you see them), that's a serious problem. When you lack a dungeon finder in a game whose grouping might actually be fun, that's a serious problem (though this one might be fixed by now?)
But, better gameplay or no, the game is going to do better as F2P. Virtually all games do. It's better for players and better for developers.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
LOL
green part is great point. blue is what i tell people.
No, because vanilla WoW was actually a good game. And they didn't only work on WoW, they worked on Starcraft, Warcraft 3, coded and designed BattleNet, etc. Those are far greater feats.
And if you're wondering why people aren't taking your opinions seriously: if you can't even get basic facts right about the game such as its payment model, then how are they supposed to believe you when you say you know anything about it?
I think the main reason SWTOR could have used a better engine was optimization. The game is one of the worst optimized MMOs to release in the last several years, and it's too late to fix that now. They lost a lot of support (including me) when they failed to properly address this on release.
To each his own. Play which ever one you like best, play them both or play neither. Its really rather simple.
Excuse me?? So the second a large group of people finds a game that they *aboslutely love* that you don't disagree with... we're "brainwashed zombies?" Newsflash: a HUGE number of people are looking forward to this game because it's good. Any forum has its bad posters, yes, but the simple fact is, fans of their games cannot stand ignorance or spreading of misinformation. So stop claiming ignorance, find a game you like, and go talk about it. Don't waste your time insulting people and not contributing to the thread.
Because it goes F2P?
Might as well state which is better an orange or an apple because in the end flaws aside your comparing a Sci-fi game to a Fantasy game.
+1
EQ2 fan sites
A cash grab? Really? There are some companies I'd accuse of making games just to make a quick buck (Zynga, for one), but this isn't one. A lot of people poured their hearts into this game, and if you don't like it, fine. I don't like it either. But I can see where people cared about what they were producing here. Just like people care about GW2. Just like people care(d) about War and EQ and so on. First of all, it's Star Wars. I imagine most people developing the game had a vested interest in seeing something they loved come to the mmo scene again. It's a shame. Maybe they can change it around, but I don't know too many mmo's who've done that successfully.
GW2 has the advantage that if something is broken to the point of people fleeing, if they eventually fix said problem, people can test it out without subscribing again. That's a big plus in my book.
Also I think I'm just getting tired of mmo's. If only someone would take all these disparate good ideas from individual games and make something worthwhile. Good luck finding a publisher willing to back that though. Well now I'm depressed. Thanks stupid thread.
If they really cared for SWTOR then the game would have come out a lot different like actually listening to constructive feedback and not delete/lock threads that put the game in a bad light. The entire developement was a complete blunder and will likely be a "What NOT to do in an MMO Developement." Story aspect was great, but nothing revolutionary as it was jjust a copy and paste of ME series stuff, but teverything else was lacking and a WoW clone. To much betting was on that the IP will carry the game through.
Didn't a BW rep even comment about when question about the game's success in it's development stage by responding "Because it's Star Wars" or something?
Ah, I guess that's fair criticism then. My computer's pretty fast so I didn't notice.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I like the OPs reasons. But theres one thing SWTOR has over GW2. You will NEVER get the satisfaction of kicking someone where the sun dont shine and blasting them with a shotgun to the back of the head while they writhe in agony in GW2.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**