I think the way this topic is going, its basically the narrow minded vs the open minded. It doesn't neccessarily mean that either group is right. Frankly I'd rather be open minded about the "4 months down the road" outlook and not pigeon hole based on passed titles.
At the end of the day, I love open world PVP and for that I have WvW. I love instanced PVP but hate heavy gear disparities and so sPVP is perfect, throw in the first new AAA title with an actual world that you can spread out on instead of going all "Rebel Assault" from 1-80 and I'm happy with a title that is only a one time purchase.
If you don't like those apples or at least can't admit that in terms of bang for your buck this is the best value game in the genre then you are just being an idiot.
I think the way this topic is going, its basically the narrow minded vs the open minded. It doesn't neccessarily mean that either group is right. Frankly I'd rather be open minded about the "4 months down the road" outlook and not pigeon hole based on passed titles.
At the end of the day, I love open world PVP and for that I have WvW. I love instanced PVP but hate heavy gear disparities and so sPVP is perfect, throw in the first new AAA title with an actual world that you can spread out on instead of going all "Rebel Assault" from 1-80 and I'm happy with a title that is only a one time purchase.
If you don't like those apples or at least can't admit that in terms of bang for your buck this is the best value game in the genre then you are just being an idiot.
How in the world do you think your mentality is even remotely open minded?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by Kuppa Not sure I understand the fuss. PvP is GW2s endgame. Plain and simple.
Not for everyone
Some will be treating the explorable modes and high level DE's and other events as their end game
This is still very finite content, that relies on the devs adding to it. Will suffer the same fate as other themepark mmos. I do have some remote hope that they will use their streaming tech to update stuff at the very least weekly but thats just a hope.
I think the way this topic is going, its basically the narrow minded vs the open minded. It doesn't neccessarily mean that either group is right. Frankly I'd rather be open minded about the "4 months down the road" outlook and not pigeon hole based on passed titles.
At the end of the day, I love open world PVP and for that I have WvW. I love instanced PVP but hate heavy gear disparities and so sPVP is perfect, throw in the first new AAA title with an actual world that you can spread out on instead of going all "Rebel Assault" from 1-80 and I'm happy with a title that is only a one time purchase.
If you don't like those apples or at least can't admit that in terms of bang for your buck this is the best value game in the genre then you are just being an idiot.
How in the world do you think your mentality is even remotely open minded?
Because I'm not referring to anyone taking into account what they actually like in terms of game type, be it sandbox, themepark, pvp orientated, instanced pve orientated. I'm simply stating (though not very clearly) that for a single boxed price to get life long unrestrictured access to:
a structured pvp format with multiple characters and tournament formats.
A pve world with larged instanced zones and multiple paths for completing pve content to level 80 which is ungated from a cash shop
a 4 large area map pvp world that is based over two week long server matching tournametns against another 2 factions.
Now if you don't like guild wars 2 because of the setting thats really understandable. If you don't want to play it because you like large scale raid pve content definately understandable again. but in terms of giving a critical repsonse to how much you get content wise for the box price even if some of that content you personally don't like, it is on a scale (for the quality of delivery) beyond what we have seen to date.
Originally posted by Kuppa Not sure I understand the fuss. PvP is GW2s endgame. Plain and simple.
Not for everyone
Some will be treating the explorable modes and high level DE's and other events as their end game
This is still very finite content, that relies on the devs adding to it. Will suffer the same fate as other themepark mmos. I do have some remote hope that they will use their streaming tech to update stuff at the very least weekly but thats just a hope.
My money is on pvp.
It may. Hard to say at this point although PvE will never have the capabilities that PvP can in the long run assuming a game lays down the proper ground work.
Thing is there are players that mainly or only focus on PvE and whether some like it or not they will be a portion of the playerbase. PvP will be my main focus too outside dungeon exploration. But I'm not everyone. From the way forums tend to go in relation to mmos more often than not I appear to be the minority. Updates will be key as they always are with these games. Then again who knows there may be a ton of different events for people to particpate in in the high level zones to appease them. Really hard to say at this point far as I'm concerned.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by Kuppa Not sure I understand the fuss. PvP is GW2s endgame. Plain and simple.
Not for everyone
Some will be treating the explorable modes and high level DE's and other events as their end game
This is still very finite content, that relies on the devs adding to it. Will suffer the same fate as other themepark mmos. I do have some remote hope that they will use their streaming tech to update stuff at the very least weekly but thats just a hope.
My money is on pvp.
I plan on gathering guildies weekly (perhaps multiple nights a week) and figuring out what the triggers are to bring about the raid-size "boss" encounter dynamic events like the dragons they've shown.
They've got to have some unique weapon/armor skins in the loot tables.
Originally posted by Kuppa Not sure I understand the fuss. PvP is GW2s endgame. Plain and simple.
Not for everyone
Some will be treating the explorable modes and high level DE's and other events as their end game
This is still very finite content, that relies on the devs adding to it. Will suffer the same fate as other themepark mmos. I do have some remote hope that they will use their streaming tech to update stuff at the very least weekly but thats just a hope.
My money is on pvp.
It may. Hard to say at this point although PvE will never have the capabilities that PvP can in the long run assuming a game lays down the proper ground work.
Thing is there are players that mainly or only focus on PvE and whether some like it or not they will be a portion of the playerbase. PvP will be my main focus too outside dungeon exploration. But I'm not everyone. From the way forums tend to go in relation to mmos more often than not I appear to be the minority. Updates will be key as they always are with these games. Then again who knows there may be a ton of different events for people to particpate in in the high level zones to appease them. Really hard to say at this point far as I'm concerned.
Its true there are a lot of folks who just want to pve. There is nothing wrong with that. I just don't believe anyone should get their hopes up about it because logically you can come to the conclusion that there is so much you can add as pve content to an mmo. This game has no signs that it will be different, it has finite pve content and its probably not going to be abundantly more than any other themepark mmo.
That beign said the content that is their does seem like it will be a lot of fun and is well done and you don't have to pay a sub so there isn't that expectation that I need more in order to justify paying a sub.
Were this game shines for me is the pvp. Almost all the other themepark mmos have tacked on pvp, here the game was designed with pvp in mind from the ground up. This is were the longetivity of the game truly shows.
Its true there are a lot of folks who just want to pve. There is nothing wrong with that. I just don't believe anyone should get their hopes up about it because logically you can come to the conclusion that there is so much you can add as pve content to an mmo. This game has no signs that it will be different, it has finite pve content and its probably not going to be abundantly more than any other themepark mmo.
That beign said the content that is their does seem like it will be a lot of fun and is well done and you don't have to pay a sub so there isn't that expectation that I need more in order to justify paying a sub.
Were this game shines for me is the pvp. Almost all the other themepark mmos have tacked on pvp, here the game was designed with pvp in mind from the ground up. This is were the longetivity of the game truly shows.
I think you and I are actually on the same page for the most part. The problem is you know as well as I do what is going to happen when those that want PvE run out of content. Let the backlash ensue...
Still, one would think it won't be that bad since the game is incredibly alt friendly and not like people are paying a monthly sub. Not sure if they'll see it that way though. I never really got those that refuse to play the PvE or PvP portions of these games anyways.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Its true there are a lot of folks who just want to pve. There is nothing wrong with that. I just don't believe anyone should get their hopes up about it because logically you can come to the conclusion that there is so much you can add as pve content to an mmo. This game has no signs that it will be different, it has finite pve content and its probably not going to be abundantly more than any other themepark mmo.
That beign said the content that is their does seem like it will be a lot of fun and is well done and you don't have to pay a sub so there isn't that expectation that I need more in order to justify paying a sub.
Were this game shines for me is the pvp. Almost all the other themepark mmos have tacked on pvp, here the game was designed with pvp in mind from the ground up. This is were the longetivity of the game truly shows.
I think you and I are actually on the same page for the most part. The problem is you know as well as I do what is going to happen when those that want PvE run out of content. Let the backlash ensue...
Still, one would think it won't be that bad since the game is incredibly alt friendly and not like people are paying a monthly sub. Not sure if they'll see it that way though. I never really got those that refuse to play the PvE or PvP portions of these games anyways.
Indeed my friend, there will inevitably be a backlash. Although it will probably be a lot less deserved. When you don't pay a sub there isn't a whole lot to complaint about. Unless the game is just bad, and we know already that as a game its superb.
Its true there are a lot of folks who just want to pve. There is nothing wrong with that. I just don't believe anyone should get their hopes up about it because logically you can come to the conclusion that there is so much you can add as pve content to an mmo. This game has no signs that it will be different, it has finite pve content and its probably not going to be abundantly more than any other themepark mmo.
That beign said the content that is their does seem like it will be a lot of fun and is well done and you don't have to pay a sub so there isn't that expectation that I need more in order to justify paying a sub.
Were this game shines for me is the pvp. Almost all the other themepark mmos have tacked on pvp, here the game was designed with pvp in mind from the ground up. This is were the longetivity of the game truly shows.
I think you and I are actually on the same page for the most part. The problem is you know as well as I do what is going to happen when those that want PvE run out of content. Let the backlash ensue...
Still, one would think it won't be that bad since the game is incredibly alt friendly and not like people are paying a monthly sub. Not sure if they'll see it that way though. I never really got those that refuse to play the PvE or PvP portions of these games anyways.
also on the same page as you and Kuppa in regards to how many will percieve the ammount of PVE content.
The thing that people need to really take a long hard look at is, (in other titles) is wether they are measuring how much time the content takes for them to complete or are they measuring the ammount of time they spend doing unique content. In my opinion doing the same Raid 25 times might take months of gameplay but I'd rather have pve content that I could see all of it in half the time and it all be a much more unique non repatitive affair.
side note: Having leveled queensdale through twice on the same character (intentionally re-rolled) I was surprised having achieved 100% completion on both how varied some aspects of this process were.
Theres a reason endgame exists as it does today. It's because being weak simply because of your level isn't fun. GW2 doesn't change this one bit. The same reason people rush to endgame in other games is the entire basis of guild wars 2.
So basically imagine playing World of Warcraft lvls 1-85 but never reaching the end. Never being able to say "thank god, I don't have to gather another 10 rat tails". That is GW2. While Dynamic Events seem fun now, give it a month. See how much you want to log into GW2 then. That being said, it's not a terrible purchase. Get a month worth of entertainment for 60 bucks, and can come back and do PVP when you want for no subscription fee. That's GW2's real selling point.
No offense, DK, but I think trying to argument with the fanbois is like pissing against the wind. They'll stick to their "GW2 don't need endgame" and other mantras taught by Anet cos that's what they want to believe, as silly as it sounds.
As opposed to the mantras that say all endgame needs to follow the same principles taught by people who can't let gear progression go? Look, even though your post is deliberately inflammatory, I can answer it by saying that most games don't even have an endgame... why is that MMOs need to follow the same principles or otherwise they're no good?
If you told me in my NES days that one day, there would be games where the only way to get stronger was to run the same level over and over again, I'd think it was the stupidest idea in the world. But now that WoW was so successful, that seems to automatically mean the system is not only viable, but totally not a scam to keep you paying sub fees at the expense of 90% of the rest of the content.
I wasn't always a fan of GW2, but I know what makes sense and what doesn't.
Why is it that the WoW fanbois always think they're so much smarter than the fans of other games? This makes me half laugh and half vomit. (edit) Why can't they just go to their WoW forums and type stuff and stay away from the forums of games they don't like? WoW is a great game....so is GW2. There's no contest here. Just two games to enjoy.
Having said that....I presently subscribe to WoW and play it almost daily, BUT....it didn't keep me from pre-purchasing GW2 and I WILL INDEED be playing it starting August 25th (the BWEs were wonderful). Why must we be committed ONLY TO ONE game, I mean seriously, ffs.....we don't MARRY these games, they're GAMES. WE PLAY THEM! I have almost always played more than one at a time. I doubt that will stop. I'm a gamer.....it's what I DO.
Originally posted by Eir_S I expect them to add content, but it's been my experience that it's absolutely 100% impossible to add content in time, no matter how many resources you have - or how efficient your content delivery method is. Content will ALWAYS reflect the amount of time the artist(s) have spent on it. You can't "systematize" meaningful content - not for long.
If they go and add ever more powerful rewards - then we're just back to the horrible tier-replacement system of WoW. That's not going to be enough.
I'm precisely NOT advocating a WoW-like system, but merely that "no power progression" isn't going to solve the problem of content exhaustion.
There are articles out there somewhere... they'll be adding new events practically from day 1 forwards, and adjusting the triggering of events as they do. The game, in all zones, will constantly be growing thanks to their DE team that's dedicated to doing exactly that. Other teams will be working on larger content such as dungeons, etc. which may appear in expansions, in DLC or simply added for free. They are all in with regards to keeping the game growing and fresh.
Yeah, I'm sure they're promising the world and more.
But, the reality is that you CAN'T automate meaningful content. Not until we have AI advanced enough to design appealing and unique content that sets itself apart.
That's why quality content will ALWAYS take a lot of time to implement, and it's exhausted almost instantly without a gating mechanism.
Since you seem to be in the habit of correcting other people, I read about 7+ pages so far of this thread, I will correct you. You are flat out wrong. The last BWE provided the player base with, what I felt was, an injection of dynamic/fun content at the conclusion of BWE3. The devs took roughly 12 hours to develop a hunger-games like simulation that was dynamic, engaging, and fun. That's why I play games, I don't know about you... I imagine they'll be able to expand upon this system in the future, since it's still in it's infancy. There's been a lot of talk about carrots and sticks, well, that sounds like a nice carrot to me.... Who else had a blast with this event?
Originally posted by Eir_S I expect them to add content, but it's been my experience that it's absolutely 100% impossible to add content in time, no matter how many resources you have - or how efficient your content delivery method is. Content will ALWAYS reflect the amount of time the artist(s) have spent on it. You can't "systematize" meaningful content - not for long.
If they go and add ever more powerful rewards - then we're just back to the horrible tier-replacement system of WoW. That's not going to be enough.
I'm precisely NOT advocating a WoW-like system, but merely that "no power progression" isn't going to solve the problem of content exhaustion.
There are articles out there somewhere... they'll be adding new events practically from day 1 forwards, and adjusting the triggering of events as they do. The game, in all zones, will constantly be growing thanks to their DE team that's dedicated to doing exactly that. Other teams will be working on larger content such as dungeons, etc. which may appear in expansions, in DLC or simply added for free. They are all in with regards to keeping the game growing and fresh.
Yeah, I'm sure they're promising the world and more.
But, the reality is that you CAN'T automate meaningful content. Not until we have AI advanced enough to design appealing and unique content that sets itself apart.
That's why quality content will ALWAYS take a lot of time to implement, and it's exhausted almost instantly without a gating mechanism.
Since you seem to be in the habit of correcting other people, I read about 7+ pages so far of this thread, I will correct you. You are flat out wrong. The last BWE provided the player base with, what I felt was, an injection of dynamic/fun content at the conclusion of BWE3. The devs took roughly 12 hours to develop a hunger-games like simulation that was dynamic, engaging, and fun. That's why I play games, I don't know about you... I imagine they'll be able to expand upon this system in the future, since it's still in it's infancy. There's been a lot of talk about carrots and sticks, well, that sounds like a nice carrot to me.... Who else had a blast with this event?
You tell him, man, you tell him. I missed the event, but I bet a lot of people didn't. I was busy running around the landscape thinking about having a picnic. lol
Indeed my friend, there will inevitably be a backlash. Although it will probably be a lot less deserved. When you don't pay a sub there isn't a whole lot to complaint about. Unless the game is just bad, and we know already that as a game its superb.
My only argument with this statement is how it applies to GW2. In the cash shop model, many (most?) game companies are making more money from their playerbase than with a sub model. So even if you individually are not paying, there are still plenty of people who are. And complain they will, whether it's warranted or not, and they'll be just as entitled to those complaints as people who pay subs in other games.
Complain about what exactly? Subbed player complain in free to play games because they invest more in their game, and are pot commited, I. E trapped through fear of losing the advantage they have from their time and money invested. take a holiday from the game then they fall behind the insidious tier gear race. In gw2, you can buy stuff, farm stuff, leave etc and you can come back when you like and not be penalised. In short you don't pay for content before you get it, so empowered not punished or degraded.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Indeed my friend, there will inevitably be a backlash. Although it will probably be a lot less deserved. When you don't pay a sub there isn't a whole lot to complaint about. Unless the game is just bad, and we know already that as a game its superb.
My only argument with this statement is how it applies to GW2. In the cash shop model, many (most?) game companies are making more money from their playerbase than with a sub model. So even if you individually are not paying, there are still plenty of people who are. And complain they will, whether it's warranted or not, and they'll be just as entitled to those complaints as people who pay subs in other games.
There will always be people who complain. Regardless of how good or complete a game is.
The simple truth of this matter is that GW2 has more quantifiable content than most other MMOs on the market, and it's not even out yet. Furthermore, the way the vast majority of their content is implemented (and hearts are not the majority of the game's content by any stretch of the imagination) in a way that allows this content to progress in a different way each time. Even with a sub this game would be worth the value, but the fact that it's not makes it almost a steal. Especially given that you don't have to spend a dime after the initial purchase if you don't want to.
Now on top of this, they have already shown a robust system for adding on-the-fly significant events to the game on a whim. I mean, 12 hours to implement an event like hunger royal, or the shatterer corruption, hell that's impressive in a lot of ways. There's a lot of potential for new content in that system alone, and only a fool would think they aren't going to use it.
I mean, after looking at all that, people are still looking for things to complain about. Some people are still attached to their skinner box model, despite it failing the past decade of MMOs on a fairly consistant basis. While the argument always seems to get twisted around, it seems to always come from a standpoint of whether or not you still want a skinner-box. Not on whether or not there will be enough content.
Hell, the game already has more content than skyrim, it's repeatable content, and costs the same price.
Indeed my friend, there will inevitably be a backlash. Although it will probably be a lot less deserved. When you don't pay a sub there isn't a whole lot to complaint about. Unless the game is just bad, and we know already that as a game its superb.
My only argument with this statement is how it applies to GW2. In the cash shop model, many (most?) game companies are making more money from their playerbase than with a sub model. So even if you individually are not paying, there are still plenty of people who are. And complain they will, whether it's warranted or not, and they'll be just as entitled to those complaints as people who pay subs in other games.
The difference here is you can still play the game without paying a sub. So you could say that if you are paying microtransactions its because you are liking the game. I doubt anyone who will complain about the amount of content available will also spend money on the game, that would be a contradiction.
Since you seem to be in the habit of correcting other people, I read about 7+ pages so far of this thread, I will correct you. You are flat out wrong. The last BWE provided the player base with, what I felt was, an injection of dynamic/fun content at the conclusion of BWE3. The devs took roughly 12 hours to develop a hunger-games like simulation that was dynamic, engaging, and fun. That's why I play games, I don't know about you... I imagine they'll be able to expand upon this system in the future, since it's still in it's infancy. There's been a lot of talk about carrots and sticks, well, that sounds like a nice carrot to me.... Who else had a blast with this event?
In all honesty it seemed to me overall sentiment on that even was pretty mixed. Seemed just as many hated it as loved it. I thought it was pretty cool myself and was glad to see something different from the usual invasion or uber raid big baddie boss showdown.
However, seems there were more than a few that were pretty disappointed because their event wasn't essentially an invasion or uber raid boss. Have to wonder how open people are going to be to having some creative and imaginative events. You would think people would be tired of the same old standard fair. Then again trying to use common sense and logic in reference to the mmo community is a rather pointless affair.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Since you seem to be in the habit of correcting other people, I read about 7+ pages so far of this thread, I will correct you. You are flat out wrong. The last BWE provided the player base with, what I felt was, an injection of dynamic/fun content at the conclusion of BWE3. The devs took roughly 12 hours to develop a hunger-games like simulation that was dynamic, engaging, and fun. That's why I play games, I don't know about you... I imagine they'll be able to expand upon this system in the future, since it's still in it's infancy. There's been a lot of talk about carrots and sticks, well, that sounds like a nice carrot to me.... Who else had a blast with this event?
In all honesty it seemed to me overall sentiment on that even was pretty mixed. Seemed just as many hated it as loved it. I thought it was pretty cool myself and was glad to see something different from the usual invasion or uber raid big baddie boss showdown.
However, seems there were more than a few that were pretty disappointed because their event wasn't essentially an invasion or uber raid boss. Have to wonder how open people are going to be to having some creative and imaginative events. You would think people would be tired of the same old standard fair. Then again trying to use common sense and logic in reference to the mmo community is a rather pointless affair.
I agree, not everyone will like it. Not everyone likes chocolate ice cream, you'll never please everyone; however, I am more impressed with the capability Anet posseses. It's truly, what seems to be, a ground-breaking system in terms of content creation within an MMO. The hunger-games simulation demonstrated the flexibility and rapid delivery of their system. Those are the aspects I find most intriguing. I enjoyed the event from a "fun" aspect as well, which is what Anet is striving for in the end.
Indeed my friend, there will inevitably be a backlash. Although it will probably be a lot less deserved. When you don't pay a sub there isn't a whole lot to complaint about. Unless the game is just bad, and we know already that as a game its superb.
My only argument with this statement is how it applies to GW2. In the cash shop model, many (most?) game companies are making more money from their playerbase than with a sub model. So even if you individually are not paying, there are still plenty of people who are. And complain they will, whether it's warranted or not, and they'll be just as entitled to those complaints as people who pay subs in other games.
The difference here is you can still play the game without paying a sub. So you could say that if you are paying microtransactions its because you are liking the game. I doubt anyone who will complain about the amount of content available will also spend money on the game, that would be a contradiction.
Well, if you're paying a sub you're not doing so because you hate the game... you're paying because you like the game, right? And people still complain about the games they sub to. It's not a contradiction, because obviously you care about the game enough to spend the money, and that also means caring about the stuff you want improved. Unfortunately, people choose the whining and complaining route instead of contstructive cirticism.
All I'm saying is that just because there's no sub doesn't mean that a complaint is less deserved.
Indeed my friend, there will inevitably be a backlash. Although it will probably be a lot less deserved. When you don't pay a sub there isn't a whole lot to complaint about. Unless the game is just bad, and we know already that as a game its superb.
My only argument with this statement is how it applies to GW2. In the cash shop model, many (most?) game companies are making more money from their playerbase than with a sub model. So even if you individually are not paying, there are still plenty of people who are. And complain they will, whether it's warranted or not, and they'll be just as entitled to those complaints as people who pay subs in other games.
The difference here is you can still play the game without paying a sub. So you could say that if you are paying microtransactions its because you are liking the game. I doubt anyone who will complain about the amount of content available will also spend money on the game, that would be a contradiction.
Well, if you're paying a sub you're not doing so because you hate the game... you're paying because you like the game, right? And people still complain about the games they sub to. It's not a contradiction, because obviously you care about the game enough to spend the money, and that also means caring about the stuff you want improved. Unfortunately, people choose the whining and complaining route instead of contstructive cirticism.
All I'm saying is that just because there's no sub doesn't mean that a complaint is less deserved.
Remember what we are talking about here. Its complaining about longevity. Strictly were a sub comes into play. If GW2 were a bad game, complaint all you want. Complaining because it doesn't have content past 3 months, is a bit less deserved. You can do it sure, but really you paid what you pay for a console game that gives you ~10 hours of gameplay.
Comments
I think the way this topic is going, its basically the narrow minded vs the open minded. It doesn't neccessarily mean that either group is right. Frankly I'd rather be open minded about the "4 months down the road" outlook and not pigeon hole based on passed titles.
At the end of the day, I love open world PVP and for that I have WvW. I love instanced PVP but hate heavy gear disparities and so sPVP is perfect, throw in the first new AAA title with an actual world that you can spread out on instead of going all "Rebel Assault" from 1-80 and I'm happy with a title that is only a one time purchase.
If you don't like those apples or at least can't admit that in terms of bang for your buck this is the best value game in the genre then you are just being an idiot.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
This is still very finite content, that relies on the devs adding to it. Will suffer the same fate as other themepark mmos. I do have some remote hope that they will use their streaming tech to update stuff at the very least weekly but thats just a hope.
My money is on pvp.
Because I'm not referring to anyone taking into account what they actually like in terms of game type, be it sandbox, themepark, pvp orientated, instanced pve orientated. I'm simply stating (though not very clearly) that for a single boxed price to get life long unrestrictured access to:
a structured pvp format with multiple characters and tournament formats.
A pve world with larged instanced zones and multiple paths for completing pve content to level 80 which is ungated from a cash shop
a 4 large area map pvp world that is based over two week long server matching tournametns against another 2 factions.
Now if you don't like guild wars 2 because of the setting thats really understandable. If you don't want to play it because you like large scale raid pve content definately understandable again. but in terms of giving a critical repsonse to how much you get content wise for the box price even if some of that content you personally don't like, it is on a scale (for the quality of delivery) beyond what we have seen to date.
It may. Hard to say at this point although PvE will never have the capabilities that PvP can in the long run assuming a game lays down the proper ground work.
Thing is there are players that mainly or only focus on PvE and whether some like it or not they will be a portion of the playerbase. PvP will be my main focus too outside dungeon exploration. But I'm not everyone. From the way forums tend to go in relation to mmos more often than not I appear to be the minority. Updates will be key as they always are with these games. Then again who knows there may be a ton of different events for people to particpate in in the high level zones to appease them. Really hard to say at this point far as I'm concerned.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I plan on gathering guildies weekly (perhaps multiple nights a week) and figuring out what the triggers are to bring about the raid-size "boss" encounter dynamic events like the dragons they've shown.
They've got to have some unique weapon/armor skins in the loot tables.
Its true there are a lot of folks who just want to pve. There is nothing wrong with that. I just don't believe anyone should get their hopes up about it because logically you can come to the conclusion that there is so much you can add as pve content to an mmo. This game has no signs that it will be different, it has finite pve content and its probably not going to be abundantly more than any other themepark mmo.
That beign said the content that is their does seem like it will be a lot of fun and is well done and you don't have to pay a sub so there isn't that expectation that I need more in order to justify paying a sub.
Were this game shines for me is the pvp. Almost all the other themepark mmos have tacked on pvp, here the game was designed with pvp in mind from the ground up. This is were the longetivity of the game truly shows.
I think you and I are actually on the same page for the most part. The problem is you know as well as I do what is going to happen when those that want PvE run out of content. Let the backlash ensue...
Still, one would think it won't be that bad since the game is incredibly alt friendly and not like people are paying a monthly sub. Not sure if they'll see it that way though. I never really got those that refuse to play the PvE or PvP portions of these games anyways.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Indeed my friend, there will inevitably be a backlash. Although it will probably be a lot less deserved. When you don't pay a sub there isn't a whole lot to complaint about. Unless the game is just bad, and we know already that as a game its superb.
also on the same page as you and Kuppa in regards to how many will percieve the ammount of PVE content.
The thing that people need to really take a long hard look at is, (in other titles) is wether they are measuring how much time the content takes for them to complete or are they measuring the ammount of time they spend doing unique content. In my opinion doing the same Raid 25 times might take months of gameplay but I'd rather have pve content that I could see all of it in half the time and it all be a much more unique non repatitive affair.
side note: Having leveled queensdale through twice on the same character (intentionally re-rolled) I was surprised having achieved 100% completion on both how varied some aspects of this process were.
Theres a reason endgame exists as it does today. It's because being weak simply because of your level isn't fun. GW2 doesn't change this one bit. The same reason people rush to endgame in other games is the entire basis of guild wars 2.
So basically imagine playing World of Warcraft lvls 1-85 but never reaching the end. Never being able to say "thank god, I don't have to gather another 10 rat tails". That is GW2. While Dynamic Events seem fun now, give it a month. See how much you want to log into GW2 then. That being said, it's not a terrible purchase. Get a month worth of entertainment for 60 bucks, and can come back and do PVP when you want for no subscription fee. That's GW2's real selling point.
This link may help those that are wondering about how "endgame" works.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/04/28/guild-wars-2-designer-talks-post-launch-content-and-getting-the-community-to-play-together/
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Why is it that the WoW fanbois always think they're so much smarter than the fans of other games? This makes me half laugh and half vomit. (edit) Why can't they just go to their WoW forums and type stuff and stay away from the forums of games they don't like? WoW is a great game....so is GW2. There's no contest here. Just two games to enjoy.
Having said that....I presently subscribe to WoW and play it almost daily, BUT....it didn't keep me from pre-purchasing GW2 and I WILL INDEED be playing it starting August 25th (the BWEs were wonderful). Why must we be committed ONLY TO ONE game, I mean seriously, ffs.....we don't MARRY these games, they're GAMES. WE PLAY THEM! I have almost always played more than one at a time. I doubt that will stop. I'm a gamer.....it's what I DO.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Since you seem to be in the habit of correcting other people, I read about 7+ pages so far of this thread, I will correct you. You are flat out wrong. The last BWE provided the player base with, what I felt was, an injection of dynamic/fun content at the conclusion of BWE3. The devs took roughly 12 hours to develop a hunger-games like simulation that was dynamic, engaging, and fun. That's why I play games, I don't know about you... I imagine they'll be able to expand upon this system in the future, since it's still in it's infancy. There's been a lot of talk about carrots and sticks, well, that sounds like a nice carrot to me.... Who else had a blast with this event?
You tell him, man, you tell him. I missed the event, but I bet a lot of people didn't. I was busy running around the landscape thinking about having a picnic. lol
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
My only argument with this statement is how it applies to GW2. In the cash shop model, many (most?) game companies are making more money from their playerbase than with a sub model. So even if you individually are not paying, there are still plenty of people who are. And complain they will, whether it's warranted or not, and they'll be just as entitled to those complaints as people who pay subs in other games.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
There will always be people who complain. Regardless of how good or complete a game is.
The simple truth of this matter is that GW2 has more quantifiable content than most other MMOs on the market, and it's not even out yet. Furthermore, the way the vast majority of their content is implemented (and hearts are not the majority of the game's content by any stretch of the imagination) in a way that allows this content to progress in a different way each time. Even with a sub this game would be worth the value, but the fact that it's not makes it almost a steal. Especially given that you don't have to spend a dime after the initial purchase if you don't want to.
Now on top of this, they have already shown a robust system for adding on-the-fly significant events to the game on a whim. I mean, 12 hours to implement an event like hunger royal, or the shatterer corruption, hell that's impressive in a lot of ways. There's a lot of potential for new content in that system alone, and only a fool would think they aren't going to use it.
I mean, after looking at all that, people are still looking for things to complain about. Some people are still attached to their skinner box model, despite it failing the past decade of MMOs on a fairly consistant basis. While the argument always seems to get twisted around, it seems to always come from a standpoint of whether or not you still want a skinner-box. Not on whether or not there will be enough content.
Hell, the game already has more content than skyrim, it's repeatable content, and costs the same price.
The difference here is you can still play the game without paying a sub. So you could say that if you are paying microtransactions its because you are liking the game. I doubt anyone who will complain about the amount of content available will also spend money on the game, that would be a contradiction.
In all honesty it seemed to me overall sentiment on that even was pretty mixed. Seemed just as many hated it as loved it. I thought it was pretty cool myself and was glad to see something different from the usual invasion or uber raid big baddie boss showdown.
However, seems there were more than a few that were pretty disappointed because their event wasn't essentially an invasion or uber raid boss. Have to wonder how open people are going to be to having some creative and imaginative events. You would think people would be tired of the same old standard fair. Then again trying to use common sense and logic in reference to the mmo community is a rather pointless affair.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I agree, not everyone will like it. Not everyone likes chocolate ice cream, you'll never please everyone; however, I am more impressed with the capability Anet posseses. It's truly, what seems to be, a ground-breaking system in terms of content creation within an MMO. The hunger-games simulation demonstrated the flexibility and rapid delivery of their system. Those are the aspects I find most intriguing. I enjoyed the event from a "fun" aspect as well, which is what Anet is striving for in the end.
Well, if you're paying a sub you're not doing so because you hate the game... you're paying because you like the game, right? And people still complain about the games they sub to. It's not a contradiction, because obviously you care about the game enough to spend the money, and that also means caring about the stuff you want improved. Unfortunately, people choose the whining and complaining route instead of contstructive cirticism.
All I'm saying is that just because there's no sub doesn't mean that a complaint is less deserved.
Remember what we are talking about here. Its complaining about longevity. Strictly were a sub comes into play. If GW2 were a bad game, complaint all you want. Complaining because it doesn't have content past 3 months, is a bit less deserved. You can do it sure, but really you paid what you pay for a console game that gives you ~10 hours of gameplay.