I'm a veteran of Ultima Online and frankly, the whole pvp thing put me off so much I have never touched upon that aspect of a mmo again. Getting killed by morons who spend their entire waking hours powering their uber insane toons up and using scripts and injections and all that nonsense was getting pretty friggin annoying. I play a game because I want to have fun, and being called a noob constantly by no-life powergamers who kill you even if you run around naked is not my idea of fun.
Have played: UO, WOW, COH/V, EQ2 Currently playing: Age of Conan (EU)
Originally posted by Zenodice Asheron's Call - Darktide. the mindless "casual" gamers hate the fact that they cant play for 20 mins a week and compete with the "hardcore" gamers. Of course, this is due largely to the fact that most of these people are lazy and refuse to grind in any game to get a decent character and as such whine ... ***
Eh?? You mean they may have jobs, freinds, lives and girlfreinds? OMG how DARE they!
I only get to play for about 5-8 hours a week and it SUCKS you think i dont want to play more?
Originally posted by skelz Some of us want to grief others,
That's a reason why you won't find a game that suits you. It is a multiplayer game which means the person you are griefing is also a customer that pays to have fun. Games are meant for entertainment for people on both ends of the wires. In real life when you grief someone you will face problems too, it's not because you go on the internet that you get the right to break the laws of common sense.
Be aware that I don't see anything wrong with PvP combat, it's only the ganking without punishment. That's for idiots. If you want to PvP to cause someone grief you need to go see a psychologist, because then there's something seriously wrong with you. This all ofcourse unless game mechanics offer options to people being in game "criminals" with the consequences of being a criminal (i.e. jail, restricted access to npc's, wanted list for policing authorities, etc.).
I've read the fps comments elsewhere in this thread. I really wish more mmofps's (based on combat and not storyline) would come out for the "shoot'em up" crowd of the ages of wolfenstein3D, Doom and all later sequels in the genre. That would leave the current rpg games cleaner of people that are playing the wrong type of games. Do you understand the problem is not with the "carebears" playing a game for what it's meant to be, but rather with a crowd waiting for a new genre in mmos exploiting the lack in game design allowing you to grief without punishment ?
Some folks have some serious issues. I suggest taking your pasty white face and going outside and getting some sunlight. Most of us have jobs, mortgages, familys and we play casually. You kiddies who spend 18 hours a day behind the machine in your underwear have no right to dictate to me how I will play what I am paying for.
<Most people can't handle losing over and over and realizing that in these types of game you have to pay your dues before you can go around stomping on n00bs.>
It's pseudo-Elite comments like this one that ruin each game for people. I doubt anyone LIKES to lose over and over. Your perceived notion of perseverance is motivated by the fact that you have a zillion hours per week because you have no adult commitments. Try it from an grown-ups standpoint.
I pay my dues every day when I go to work, manage a very large chain of stores, maintain a marriage, and care for two kids and provide for my family. How do YOU pay your dues? You don't have to pay your dues in a game, thats a completely fictional statement from someone living in a cloud.
I live in the real world, you live in the imagined world of 'I'm leet I'm better than you'. Unfortunately for you, your characters are only pixels on a screen owned by a company that you have never met. Take a deep breath, and imagine that one day they'll be more to life for you than calling people carebears for being realists and doing the things THAT MATTER.
Im with Zodiac here, your words were maybe a little 'strong' but the spirit of what your saying is quite correct, everybody will play in thier own way, being elitist and stomping or ripping off 'n008s' is just plain silly, although i guess you only play the bigger games where a loss of palyers does'nt matter so much.
Zen, your right about a few things tho, you can't have open PvP. But thats cos its just a dumb idea as it gives people like you the chance to camp outisde of noob spawning or training areas and kill then whilst shouting "mwhahaha 0MFG ! fuk!n6 pwn u". But then whinging idiots who cry, beg, or threaten to take game experiences into real life (ie get u banded) are equally as pathetic.
*edit* after reading your post again zen i really do think that is one of the stupidest posts i've seen on here, made even worse by the lack of spelling and grammatical errors which suggests you actually thought about it.
Originally posted by ZodiacTalon It's pseudo-Elite comments like this one that ruin each game for people. I doubt anyone LIKES to lose over and over. Your perceived notion of perseverance is motivated by the fact that you have a zillion hours per week because you have no adult commitments. Try it from an grown-ups standpoint.
Brilliant assummption, I guess you didn't even read the end part of the post where I told Blizz it's assinine to assume people who play the game for atleast an hour or two a day are children. Fact is, I go to college and work 20+ hours a week part-time, which, due to my school schedule means pretty much all weekend solid (5 hours after school on friday and 8 hours sat/sun), so please don't preach to me about commitment.
Nor did you stop to re-read my post and stumble upon the fact that at no point did I state that I play for 10 hours a day without fail, but then again i'm sure you barely got midway through before your sense of pride took over. I'm sure you're a REAL critical member of team McDonalds and I know they even let you wear that special hat on tuesdays but you really need to get over the fact that EVERYONE who plays the game has a life outside of it and there's no special prize for being able to walk and breath at the same time. Now, while i'm sure you have a valid point in your arguement, it's all but superceded by your brash and blatent chest beating machismo. Don't worry, this is a common thing with middle aged men with something ot prove, you're not alone.
To clarify, I don't have ZILLIONS of hours per week to play without commitment, but I do have free time pretty much daily and I usually dedicate a small portion of it to playing for atleast a bit on the game. There is a vast difference between spending an hour or two daily (which still allows you to be competitive) and spending 20 mins-hour twice a week. I have all kinds of things to do besides playing games like AC but it sure isnt that hard finding an hour before bed or on a 3 hour spare from class to login once in awhile.
Note that at no point in my original post did I say it's WRONG to be a carebear and play 1-2 hours a week on the weekend, but bear in mind that if this is the type of free time you have, MMOS ARE PROBABLY NOT FOR YOU. Let's break it down to simple logic. MMOs = Time Investment, If you + time = then MMOs = pointless. There are plenty of other games that would better suit someone who only has time to be a weekend warrior, hybrid like Guildwars or any RTS/FPS game.
The commitment to playing and leveling regardless of dieing has nothing to do with how much time you have and entirely to do with your mentality. It's the people who think like carebears that ruin the pvp aspect of nearly every game, and more often than not its the casual players who embody this thought pattern.
Also, if you notice above in my post, as I said earlier, if you don't think you can atleast find an hour or two daily to play a MMO than DONT PLAY IT. It's absurd to buy a game, spend $15 a month and play for less than 5 hours weekly. I understand that people like to get into "the next big thing" when it comes out but theres really no point if you dont have time to play, you'll only end up pissed off when you can't compete and complain about how hard it is to level up. Once enough people complain that it's too hard to level the Devs nerf the game and make it wimpy and boring and voila, game is ruined thanks to people who play it maybe 30 a day.
I also don't understand why people think ganking is any less appropriate than any other kind of PKing in a game. How do you expect people to control areas in open pvp games, by "dueling" every single person that runs into the area? Yes, because that works when nearly every person who plays on pvp servers knows that running is always the easy way out of fighting. The only way to have your allegiance or clan control any part of the world, so that you and your guildies can level and such, is by brute force. Aparently none of you who are making these comments have EVER played an open pvp game before, because it's aparent you have no idea how these things work. In order to live on a open pvp server, your guild has to control good leveling spots, because levels mean everything in MMOs (this should be a self-evident fact), and as such you must control a leveling area. How does one control a level area you ask? You get a group of friends together, form a guild/clan and then gank every single person thats not a part of your clan that comes into your leveling area, thereby securing it for your friends. If you people think this is mindless bs, you've never experienced the insane fun that is defending/raiding hotspots and popular monarchy dungeons. This was a common thing on a game like Asheron's Call on the Darktide server, you would get a group together, buff up your characters and raid a dungeon and slay a ton of people in the monarchy, and then you would portal back up to the entrance and wait for the counter-attack which depending on the group might be something to the tune of 200 people coming in after you (ahhh the glory days of blood). THAT, my friends, is what pvp is meant to be, something that you can never experience if you don't want to put the time and effort into games where it should practically be a pre-requisite to owning them.
As an aside, to the kid who posted above, commenting on my grammer.... I got one word for you, "banded". It's wise not to make sure you're not a total slack jawed troglodyte before you try on the big boy pants and comment on other people's grammar.
Lol, you're the one who said "banded", that's why i'm laughing at you for making fun of my grammar.... It's funny to me that you believe that because I can write in a compitent fashion and post legibly and without spelling errors, that i've somehow achieved less than your stumbling drivel.
lol - okay i see your point to some extent - you cant complain about being crap if you only play for an hour a week, like any hobby/activity mmos require (and should require) some time investment.
I was kind of complimenting you on your grammer? oh and kid? if your still at college i think i'm a lttle older than you.
*edit* -yawn- ok i cant be bothered to read all that, your first post was about a tenth of that lenght now after a few edits it about what 500 words? i mean look at it... sheesh. In fact in total thats over 2000 words on this page alone
If what you say is true Zenodice, it doesn't get you anywhere. PVPers basically can't complain about non-pvp games if they demand games like Darktide, just the inverse of non-pvp players can't complain about PVP games. I see that happening all the time though, that seems to be what this thread is about.
And I think the basic idea the developers have is that if they let people get scared off by open PVP, at least the Darwinian process you're describing, then you don't have as many subscriptions. Which means you recoup the cost of making the game slower, if ever. Plus because people expect new content to come out, all the developers have to be paid. The servers have to be paid for. The customer support staff has to be payed for and so on and so forth. There is an answer to the thread's question. A game with high-risks is going to be seen as high-risk financially.
If your job is producing games for profit, are you going to make the kind of game that is known to get a lot of money or spend an equal amount of resources on the unproven one?
Originally posted by Zenodice Asheron's Call - Darktide. Sever was open pvp from day 1 and is still going strong, although the game has dropped off considerably due to age. Darktide was HARSH, to say the least, you would be fighting all the time, alot of the time you'd lose and you would be ganked often but you learned to live with it or you quit, period. That's the way the players who stuck to DT liked it and in fact for the first few years it was common practice to camp newb areas where players first came into the server to "initiate" them. This was your right of passage to remain on the server and most guilds wouldnt even recruit you if you didn't prove yourself by leveling to level 20 (or later on 50) on your own, proving your self-sustained and not a carebear beggar. Also note, if you play an open pvp game and quit because you get ganked a few times than the game is better off with you gone. The reason why carebear games attract more people is because the mindless "casual" gamers hate the fact that they cant play for 20 mins a week and compete with the "hardcore" gamers. Of course, this is due largely to the fact that most of these people are lazy and refuse to grind in any game to get a decent character and as such whine until the Devs nerf the game to one of 2 extremeties: 1) They neuter pvp, taking away all the risk, reward and fun (they did this on AC with pklite) 2) They make leveling extremely easy so that "casual" players who dedicate 1/20th the amount of time to the game can have uber characters, thus nagating the time and effort real players put into their characters tenfold (they also did this on AC) It's the whiny "pubbies" that ruin most pvp games, they don't join clans/allegiances/groups to fight back (this should be the first logical course of action, and yet, here we are), they don't think of finding somewhere else to hunt, they just run to the same spot where they just got ganked over and over and over like lemmings. And when they die, they either spam with obscenities, whine/beg/plead or threaten to get the killers banned. .. Basically, you can't have a open pvp type game because most people can't handle that level of challenge and gameplay. Most people can't handle losing over and over and realizing that in these types of game you have to pay your dues before you can go around stomping on n00bs. Most people just plain suck at pvp in general Hardcore PvP is pretty much dead in my mind, until a game comes along that actually does it properly again like pre-tram UO and AC. Also, Blitzz, your assumption that anybody who's "hardcore" is automatically a kid is absurd and quite ignorant. Some people enjoy playing a game "casually" (aka. barely ever) while others actually like to achieve things in the game and have characters who are developed fully and experience the end-game. I'm definately one of those people and I fail to see the logic in playing an RPG where the game focuses entirely on levels and skills and numbers and then playing for 10 mins a day and wondering why your friends can go to all the cool new places in the game and you can't. The solution is quite simple, don't play MMOs or even RPGs for that matter if you cannot invest time in them, these aren't the type of games you can just pickup for 10 mins a week and stay competitive at (unless it's a hybrid like GuildWars). People need to accept this fact and learn that if you want a quick competition that you can pickup in 10 mins, they should stick to FPS games. Playing a MMO casually is a waste of time and money in my opinion becuase you're just robbing yourself of a ton of content that you PAY for. Personally, I love pvp in games and sure I understand some people don't like it and don't want to be a part of it, but if you join a pvp game and then get pissed off because some random person in the game ganks you repeatedly, you really need to evaluate your choice of game. If you want an easy ride with great PvE content, play offline single player RPGs, they have boundless depth compared to most MMOs for a fraction of the cost. And please, PLEASE! stay off the !PK! servers unless you can handle losing, I know it's hard to wrap your head around the fact that you can't always win but this is a concept you need to get ahold of before you plod into the gameworld like a mindless drudge. but when you're prepared to admit that you can't beat everyone all of the time, and you realize that losing isn't the end of the world, THEN buckle down, put your nose to the grindstone and kick some ***
You know, if you would have acually read my post beside skimming through it, you would know that i said a good portion of "hardcore" gamers are kids, i DIDNT say all. And sorry, but your the ignorant one. You say we should all spend our lives sucked into a game. We have lives, friends, girlfriends, works, wives, grades, and everything else we need to worry about, besides being the ub3r l33+ h4x0rz d00d. And please keep a little proof under your belt next time you make stupid remarks; your remark of people barely play casually is just idiotic. 60-70% of MMO players are casual. They want to achieve something in the game, they just dont have TIME for it. You may have all the time in the world, others have other matters to attend to. You also have no right to tell us which game we can play which game we cant, its just arrogant. Please, back up some proof to back up your remarks. My proof: ask people on this forum wether they play casually or hardcore.
Sry for the double posts.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
Since you obviously can't read what I posted i'll summerize your points and prove you wrong that way and make it easy for you.
1) You say we should all spend our lives sucked into a game. We have lives, friends, girlfriends, works, wives, grades, and everything else we need to worry about, besides being the ub3r l33+ h4x0rz d00d
I stated in my post that I play maybe an hour or two a day, I also stated I work and am currently taking a dual certificate in college for programming and LAN, thus I know all too well how real life works. Also, calling anybody who isn't a casual player a hax0r d00d just dates you and makes you look like an old man, just because people enjoy pvp doesnt mean they're 10 year old "leet" kids, in fact I know a ton of people who play DT in their 20s-30s, most of which aren't nearly as ignorant as yourself
2) And please keep a little proof under your belt next time you make stupid remarks; your remark of people barely play casually is just idiotic. 60-70% of MMO players are casual. They want to achieve something in the game, they just dont have TIME for it
Please note, this is EXACTLY what I said in my post you moron. But maybe i'll make it a bit clearer for you IF YOU DONT HAVE TIME TO PLAY MMOs ON A SEMI REGULAR BASIS, DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY ON THEM! How hard is this to comprehend? Honestly...
3) You also have no right to tell us which game we can play which game we cant, its just arrogant.
I never told people what to play, I simply suggested that if you have no time to play a MMO youd be much better off playing RTS/FPS games because they take ALOT less time investment to pay off.
4) blah blah blah proof blah blah blah
Explain to me how one proves that casual players who whine about how hard MMOs are and how its impossible to be competitive, to be the morons that they are for wasting their money. Other than polling the entire MMO player base there is no way to have proof, for or against this case as its all subjective. But then again, I wouldn't begin to expect you to even understand what subjective means in the first place.
Now, please stop, you're embarassing yourself with your blatent contradictions and poor reading comprehension.
IF YOU DONT HAVE TIME TO PLAY MMOs ON A SEMI REGULAR BASIS, DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY ON THEM!
I totally agree with this. I'm tired of people who play mmorpgs for 5 hours a week, and when they are on they constantly complain how everyone else has passed them up. It's my MAIN irk in mmorpgs. I Don't play as much as some, but do i say "DAMN ALL THESE PEOPLE WITH MAX LEVEL!!! IF I WAS A NO LIFE LOSER AND PLAYED ALL DAY ID BE GOOD TOO!!!" no i don't. Video gaming is a hobby, its great going outside, walking the dog, seeing family, working, school. But when you got free time for say 8 hours, i don't see anything wrong with sitting down and playing video games. But people yell at you for doing it. I bet they wouldn't yell at you if you went and skateboarded for 8 hours(which one of my friends does). Different people like different things. I personally am more on the nerdy side with the books etc but whatcha gonna do =P
Anywhos back on topic.
carebear, is a offensive word period. calling people carebears is basically saying "if you don't like being griefed, your a carebear"
Open pvp will never truly work without restrictions strong enough to not make it open pvp, there was a reason UO changed people.
Not because of the system, but because of the players, untill theres a "giant eye in the sky" which watches all the pvp acts in the world, there will truly never be a situation free of griefing, heck even in wow pvp servers its a gankfest. Lvl 50s killing 30s, 30s killing 15s, 60s killing 40s, etc etc, not even getting honor from the kills.
I've been told "just get over it and stop complaining" your such a "carebear"... no i just know what sucks and what doesn't.
If every morning on my way out to walk my dog, some guy just came up and beat the living crap out of me, steals my dog, my wallet, clothes, and then leaves me there, then when i get out of the hospital, hes waiting outside with a new pipe he bought with the loot he got from me, and just beats me with it again, steals everything including the hospital wrist band... I'd eventually just stop going outside alltogether. Same concept.
I quit playing lineage 2, because while SLOWLY leveling, some guy just comes over and ganks me and i'd lose a hour of playtime from exp loss, AND chancing that my gear will drop.... It just wasn't fun for me anymore.
I love world of warcrafts system, pvp servers, and normal servers. PvP servers offer everything besides corpse looting(but really if thats what you really want... nobody wants you in a mmorpg, corpse looting does not make it more exciting, it just makes it so itemization in the game will be horrible. Look at tibia, I knew someone irl who was friends with the person who had the BEST shield in his bank. But refused ot ever take it out, let alone use it, just because everyone would kill him and take it. So why bother using it?). Town raids, battlegrounds, griefing. What's wrong with that? If your pvping for corpse looting... your pvping for the wrong reason. Even with no real consequences, i get my blood pumping in wow pvp. Not so i can get some insane loot, or even honor ranks, just the thought of killing other players in a equal setting is what makes it fun, its challenging, and when i lose, which i do just as much as i win. I can go back and fight... NOT with corpse looting, i lose ONCE, and now i gotta go farm new gear again, prolly even load onto my crafter alt to create some.
Your not hardcore, your a griefgank plain and simple.
There is no such thing as a carebear, there is no such thing as hardcore. There are 4 categories, which don't have titles, but just dictate how someone will play. Not their entire personality opinion on things and stuff.
PvE player, this guy likes the pve game, pvp isn't really a concern, and it doesn't really interest them, they may do it every now and then but its not what they play for. 90% of the time they don't diss pvpers unless they start bragging on it(but everyone disses them then)
Normal player, this guy like to PvE, and like to PvP. As long as PvP doesn't interfere with PvE. For example, They don't have to PvP to PvE, but PvE would help PvP. (I fall into this category)
PvP player, this guy likes the pvp game, PvE is a annoyance, which bores them, but they can enjoy it at times. They normally don't diss PvE players, and jumps at the chance to get into a fight be it a battlegrounds, dueling, RvR, etc.
GG player(grief ganker), this guy LOVES to PvP, anything else is so boring, that it makes him laugh that other people can do it. This guy will attack other gamers who don't feel that PvP is the holy grail, that a game can't live without. Will always attack PvE player's opinions, and then complain about them whining. Unfortunately these people are the main market for open pvp games, yet they are the same reason why they don't succeed.
I like wow where i get to choose when i do both, I normally get around 2000-4000 hks before lvl 50, on a normal server. So its far from me not liking pvp. I just don't like getting ganked, not because I'm a carebear, but just because NOONE likes fighting a fight where they can't win.
like i said before open pvp will only truly succeed when its so limited that its not TRULY open pvp.
The question is, how much entertainment is worth 15$/30 days to people? If I only played for an hour every other day, thats a buck an hour. What cool thing can I do with that dollar instead every other day? Buy a candy bar? Thats like one trip to the movies in the whole month. Way less if you take someone else and buy food.
As long as you do not perceive the $15 as being worth more than your experiences in the game, what you're doing makes sense. You only should explicitly not pay when $15 is worth more than playing the game to you.
It seems really moot to make arguments about dedication or time spent. What if you don't start a game right when it comes out? Even if by some bizarre happenstance every player spends the same length of time per month in game, if people started a year before me I'll be exactly a year behind them reaching the level cap. If we're still in the "Darkfall Scenario" it will probably take me longer.
But thats not how that would work anyway. Even if we all spent the same length of time leveling up, what if I didn't train combat skills that whole time? What if I gimp myself because its my first character? Or something was useful that I trained up and it gets nerfed?
Of course, the likelihood of everyone spending the same number of hours per month in game is minuscule. There are going to be people who play the game with extreme dedication
Originally posted by Zenodice Also note, if you play an open pvp game and quit because you get ganked a few times than the game is better off with you gone. The reason why carebear games attract more people is because the mindless "casual" gamers hate the fact that they cant play for 20 mins a week and compete with the "hardcore" gamers. Of course, this is due largely to the fact that most of these people are lazy and refuse to grind in any game to get a decent character and as such whine until the Devs nerf the game to one of 2 extremeties:
I usually stay out of these things but record breaking stupidity calls for a reply, so I can say "I was there" when sometimes in the future a list is made..
You mean all the lazy people with families, obligations, work, bills and whatnot as opposed to all you upright hardworking people pushing welfare, living in your mothers basement and game for 16 hours a day?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I usually stay out of these things but record breaking stupidity calls for a reply, so I can say "I was there" when sometimes in the future a list is made.. You mean all the lazy people with families, obligations, work, bills and whatnot as opposed to all you upright hardworking people pushing welfare, living in your mothers basement and game for 16 hours a day?
Originally posted by skelz I love when I start a thread with an opinion and I get 7 pages of bickering between children. keep up the good work Soon I can substantiate my claim that this community is no better than the childish wow community.
Mate, thats a lie and dont act like anything else, you were trying to start a flamewar and you got one.
Your a troll and none here needs to substantiate that, somewere there is a lonely bridge.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously your the troll here Umbrood since you didn't read my post at all, as I've stated before I go to college and i'm currently taking 2 courses, Software Engineering and LAN, as well as working part-time for 20 hours a week. Thus, I'm not saying people should dedicate 16 hours a day to games, what i'm saying is, don't play for an hour or two a week and then whine about not being competitive. If you read the rest of my original post you might realize i'm not condemning people for NOT having time, i'm condemning the morons who don't have time and still WHINE like 10 year olds and wonder why they cant compete.
If you don't have time to play the game regularly, that's fine, you're the one wasting your money not me, however if you take it that 1 step further and start bitching about everything in the game being too hard until they nerf it, that's when you start to piss me off. If you can't see this as a legitimate complaint, play ANY MMO for a year or two + and then see how the majority of the player base feels about the devs and the "casual" players who whine about difficulty. I'm betting you'll see a lot of anger because people whine and whine and whine until the devs have no choice but to make the game easy, more often than not, too easy. Then the people who start playing the game 2 years late can have characters that are as developed as the ones who have played for 2 years, if you think that's fair than I take it your one of the ones who usually benefits from this type of babying.
Now, i'll say this for the last damn time in this thread and the next incompitent simp that states otherwise will just have to figure it out themselves. There's nothing wrong with having a hectic schedule and not being able to play games, but when you actively complain that you should be just as powerful and have just as much loot/resources in a game where you play 10% as much as the regular active playerbase, than you are a jackass, period.
I'll take words out of Umbrood's mouth here and use it as a perfect analogy. When people who, for whatever reason, have no time to play a game and then complain that they're characters are not strong enough and it's unfair that people who play more have better equipment, stats and gear, it's the equivalent to welfare bums who complain they don't get as much money as doctors, welders and all other manner of legitimate jobs. To achieve something in a game, you had better be prepared to take the time to do it, and if you complain that it's not fair that you have to do it just because you dont have time, that makes you whiny, lazy and flat out childish.
I agree with zenodice on the whining part, with work comes reward. This thread should have been locked long ago, this is now just a large flame war. Skelz, you started this also, the blame falls a good dela on you, but also to others who kept fueling this.
People have playing preferences, if you dont like how they play, shut up, deal with it, move on. This goes for casual gamers too. Stop shoving your play style into peoples faces and say "OMG Harcore pwns teh carebear noobs!" becuase frankly, your just making yourself look stupid. Same for casual gamers, dont go around saying "PvP games suck! they should be destroyed! There teh badz0rs!". Now lets all please put this to rest. This should hopefully become a rule on no mroe of these types of threads.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Originally posted by Zenodice who don't have time and still WHINE like 10 year olds and wonder why they cant compete. Now, i'll say this for the last damn time in this thread and the next incompitent simp that states otherwise will just have to figure it out themselves. There's nothing wrong with having a hectic schedule and not being able to play games, but when you actively complain that you should be just as powerful and have just as much loot/resources in a game where you play 10% as much as the regular active playerbase, than you are a jackass, period.
I agree with both of these statements, but fact of the matter is that you called most of the "carebear" or "softcore" population lazy, and that bloody well tastes like idiot all over.
And if everyone who could not play at least semi-regularly as you call it stopped playing then quite a few of these games would die out, mostly the old school ones with people who were in their early 20's back then but now have more hectic lifes, they still sub to ac1 or UO or EQ even though they might log in once a week, if that, these are the people that pay the bills BTW, as they consume very little resources but stil lpay just as much as anyone else.
And correct me if I am wrong, you hate whiners but whine about them?
I like the analogy by the way, ill take it further. As if said doctor or lawyer or whatever called the disabled or the retard for lazy, just because he is not a lawyer, or pushing welfare. Are we to expect these people to just shut up and be happy with whatever we throw at them?
Id find the society when they did not speak up, or anyone spoke for them, a horrible place indeed.
And agreed, I hate nerfes just as much as anyone, having played most of these games since forever ive seen a LOT of them, but you know what, they will not go away, the vocal whiners will win, every time, learn to live with it, I have and so have most of us, whining about it is wasting YOUR time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Umbrood *snip* And if everyone who could not play at least semi-regularly as you call it stopped playing then quite a few of these games would die out, mostly the old school ones with people who were in their early 20's back then but now have more hectic lifes, they still sub to ac1 or UO or EQ even though they might log in once a week, if that, these are the people that pay the bills BTW, as they consume very little resources but stil lpay just as much as anyone else. *snip*
Thats what I think too... It goes back to my other posts. A developer trying to make money off a game is going to go for the more casual players. Or at least thats a distinct possibility. If they make the game fun but undemanding you probably do end up with a game that has a smaller pay-off overall, most of all if you're a hardcore player.
However, if the developer can convince someone to play for a few hours a month, and make those few hours fun, then you've got a paying customer who is consuming less bandwidth than a corresponding hardcore. And you make exactly the same monthly fee off the hardcore as off the casual guy, at least if the casual guy keeps playing for the same length of time as the hardcore one.
I'm not putting down developers here, if this was even a conscious choice. It obviously was in, say, WoW. But its an entirely sensible choice to make. The market demands X, you deliver X. Obviously, whenever people get bored of X something else will step in and take its place (maybe more hardcore games). The talk of this being developer driven has its point, but if the sort of game being described didn't sell as well or better than the alternative?
Originally posted by Zenodice Since you obviously can't read what I posted i'll summarize your points and prove you wrong that way and make it easy for you. 1) You say we should all spend our lives sucked into a game. We have lives, friends, girlfriends, works, wives, grades, and everything else we need to worry about, besides being the ub3r l33+ h4x0rz d00d I stated in my post that I play maybe an hour or two a day, I also stated I work and am currently taking a dual certificate in college for programming and LAN, thus I know all too well how real life works. Also, calling anybody who isn't a casual player a hax0r d00d just dates you and makes you look like an old man, just because people enjoy pvp doesn't mean they're 10 year old "leet" kids, in fact I know a ton of people who play DT in their 20s-30s, most of which aren't nearly as ignorant as yourself HA! And you say i make blatant contradictions. I have never said that anyone who likes pvp is a 10 year old kid, nor have i said that each and every person who enjoys pvp is an uber leet haxor dood. SO, instead of skimming through my posts and taking what you want to hear, READ the post and then make your reply. Also, insulting me wont make you look any smarter. 2) And please keep a little proof under your belt next time you make stupid remarks; your remark of people barely play casually is just idiotic. 60-70% of MMO players are casual. They want to achieve something in the game, they just don't have TIME for it Please note, this is EXACTLY what I said in my post you moron. But maybe i'll make it a bit clearer for you IF YOU don't HAVE TIME TO PLAY MMOs ON A SEMI REGULAR BASIS, DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY ON THEM! How hard is this to comprehend? Honestly... So you think that because they actually have lives that they shouldn't play MMOs? Ever hear of a CASUAL MMO? Also, you only invest 1-2 hours a day, which is the average time of each casual player. So, you can scream at them because they only play 1-2 hours a day, yet your special and you just can play 1-2 hours a day? Thats arrogance at it's finest 3) You also have no right to tell us which game we can play which game we cant, its just arrogant. I never told people what to play, I simply suggested that if you have no time to play a MMO you'd be much better off playing RTS/FPS games because they take ALOT less time investment to pay off. Can't argue with that though, but you actually did tell them to play something else. 4) blah blah blah proof blah blah blah Wow, that REALLY shows your maturity level Explain to me how one proves that casual players who whine about how hard MMOs are and how its impossible to be competitive, to be the morons that they are for wasting their money. Other than polling the entire MMO player base there is no way to have proof, for or against this case as its all subjective. But then again, I wouldn't begin to expect you to even understand what subjective means in the first place. Ah.. this part gave me a good laugh. You say their wasting their money for something they want. So now, they just cant want to play the game, they just buy the game to be competitive and not have fun? You act as if everyone doesn't know what they want and your the only one that knows what everyone wants. This part also gave me a good laugh also. You think that you have to ask every MMO player out there? Heres an idea, ask a group of about 20 people what their favorite play style is. When those 20 are done, get another 20 people and ask them. If the results are consistant, make a hypothesis about the most popular play style. The they vary, then get another group. Also, glorifying words doesn't make you sound smarter, the word subjective is quite out of context. Now, please stop, you're embarrassing yourself with your blatant contradictions and poor reading comprehension. And your embarrassing yourself with bad reading skills and mixing my words around.
Although you posses mediocre ( at best ) arguing skills, hypocrisy seems to be your strong suit. If your so college educated please do inform me of how its your position to be as so arrogant to tell people what they should and should not do. If I want to play a game casually, I shouldn't have people like you breathing down my neck about my playing habits.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
Comments
I'm a veteran of Ultima Online and frankly, the whole pvp thing put me off so much I have never touched upon that aspect of a mmo again. Getting killed by morons who spend their entire waking hours powering their uber insane toons up and using scripts and injections and all that nonsense was getting pretty friggin annoying. I play a game because I want to have fun, and being called a noob constantly by no-life powergamers who kill you even if you run around naked is not my idea of fun.
Have played:
UO, WOW, COH/V, EQ2
Currently playing:
Age of Conan (EU)
Eh?? You mean they may have jobs, freinds, lives and girlfreinds?
OMG how DARE they!
I only get to play for about 5-8 hours a week and it SUCKS you think i dont want to play more?
That's a reason why you won't find a game that suits you. It is a multiplayer game which means the person you are griefing is also a customer that pays to have fun. Games are meant for entertainment for people on both ends of the wires. In real life when you grief someone you will face problems too, it's not because you go on the internet that you get the right to break the laws of common sense.
Be aware that I don't see anything wrong with PvP combat, it's only the ganking without punishment. That's for idiots. If you want to PvP to cause someone grief you need to go see a psychologist, because then there's something seriously wrong with you. This all ofcourse unless game mechanics offer options to people being in game "criminals" with the consequences of being a criminal (i.e. jail, restricted access to npc's, wanted list for policing authorities, etc.).
I've read the fps comments elsewhere in this thread. I really wish more mmofps's (based on combat and not storyline) would come out for the "shoot'em up" crowd of the ages of wolfenstein3D, Doom and all later sequels in the genre. That would leave the current rpg games cleaner of people that are playing the wrong type of games. Do you understand the problem is not with the "carebears" playing a game for what it's meant to be, but rather with a crowd waiting for a new genre in mmos exploiting the lack in game design allowing you to grief without punishment ?
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Some folks have some serious issues. I suggest taking your pasty white face and going outside and getting some sunlight. Most of us have jobs, mortgages, familys and we play casually. You kiddies who spend 18 hours a day behind the machine in your underwear have no right to dictate to me how I will play what I am paying for.
<Most people can't handle losing over and over and realizing that in these types of game you have to pay your dues before you can go around stomping on n00bs.>
It's pseudo-Elite comments like this one that ruin each game for people. I doubt anyone LIKES to lose over and over. Your perceived notion of perseverance is motivated by the fact that you have a zillion hours per week because you have no adult commitments. Try it from an grown-ups standpoint.
I pay my dues every day when I go to work, manage a very large chain of stores, maintain a marriage, and care for two kids and provide for my family. How do YOU pay your dues? You don't have to pay your dues in a game, thats a completely fictional statement from someone living in a cloud.
I live in the real world, you live in the imagined world of 'I'm leet I'm better than you'. Unfortunately for you, your characters are only pixels on a screen owned by a company that you have never met. Take a deep breath, and imagine that one day they'll be more to life for you than calling people carebears for being realists and doing the things THAT MATTER.
Wow, nice first post there Zodiac!
Im with Zodiac here, your words were maybe a little 'strong' but the spirit of what your saying is quite correct, everybody will play in thier own way, being elitist and stomping or ripping off 'n008s' is just plain silly, although i guess you only play the bigger games where a loss of palyers does'nt matter so much.
Zen, your right about a few things tho, you can't have open PvP. But thats cos its just a dumb idea as it gives people like you the chance to camp outisde of noob spawning or training areas and kill then whilst shouting "mwhahaha 0MFG ! fuk!n6 pwn u". But then whinging idiots who cry, beg, or threaten to take game experiences into real life (ie get u banded) are equally as pathetic.
*edit* after reading your post again zen i really do think that is one of the stupidest posts i've seen on here, made even worse by the lack of spelling and grammatical errors which suggests you actually thought about it.
Brilliant assummption, I guess you didn't even read the end part of the post where I told Blizz it's assinine to assume people who play the game for atleast an hour or two a day are children. Fact is, I go to college and work 20+ hours a week part-time, which, due to my school schedule means pretty much all weekend solid (5 hours after school on friday and 8 hours sat/sun), so please don't preach to me about commitment.
Nor did you stop to re-read my post and stumble upon the fact that at no point did I state that I play for 10 hours a day without fail, but then again i'm sure you barely got midway through before your sense of pride took over. I'm sure you're a REAL critical member of team McDonalds and I know they even let you wear that special hat on tuesdays but you really need to get over the fact that EVERYONE who plays the game has a life outside of it and there's no special prize for being able to walk and breath at the same time. Now, while i'm sure you have a valid point in your arguement, it's all but superceded by your brash and blatent chest beating machismo. Don't worry, this is a common thing with middle aged men with something ot prove, you're not alone.
To clarify, I don't have ZILLIONS of hours per week to play without commitment, but I do have free time pretty much daily and I usually dedicate a small portion of it to playing for atleast a bit on the game. There is a vast difference between spending an hour or two daily (which still allows you to be competitive) and spending 20 mins-hour twice a week. I have all kinds of things to do besides playing games like AC but it sure isnt that hard finding an hour before bed or on a 3 hour spare from class to login once in awhile.
Note that at no point in my original post did I say it's WRONG to be a carebear and play 1-2 hours a week on the weekend, but bear in mind that if this is the type of free time you have, MMOS ARE PROBABLY NOT FOR YOU. Let's break it down to simple logic. MMOs = Time Investment, If you + time =
then MMOs = pointless. There are plenty of other games that would better suit someone who only has time to be a weekend warrior, hybrid like Guildwars or any RTS/FPS game.
The commitment to playing and leveling regardless of dieing has nothing to do with how much time you have and entirely to do with your mentality. It's the people who think like carebears that ruin the pvp aspect of nearly every game, and more often than not its the casual players who embody this thought pattern.
Also, if you notice above in my post, as I said earlier, if you don't think you can atleast find an hour or two daily to play a MMO than DONT PLAY IT. It's absurd to buy a game, spend $15 a month and play for less than 5 hours weekly. I understand that people like to get into "the next big thing" when it comes out but theres really no point if you dont have time to play, you'll only end up pissed off when you can't compete and complain about how hard it is to level up. Once enough people complain that it's too hard to level the Devs nerf the game and make it wimpy and boring and voila, game is ruined thanks to people who play it maybe 30 a day.
I also don't understand why people think ganking is any less appropriate than any other kind of PKing in a game. How do you expect people to control areas in open pvp games, by "dueling" every single person that runs into the area? Yes, because that works when nearly every person who plays on pvp servers knows that running is always the easy way out of fighting. The only way to have your allegiance or clan control any part of the world, so that you and your guildies can level and such, is by brute force. Aparently none of you who are making these comments have EVER played an open pvp game before, because it's aparent you have no idea how these things work. In order to live on a open pvp server, your guild has to control good leveling spots, because levels mean everything in MMOs (this should be a self-evident fact), and as such you must control a leveling area. How does one control a level area you ask? You get a group of friends together, form a guild/clan and then gank every single person thats not a part of your clan that comes into your leveling area, thereby securing it for your friends. If you people think this is mindless bs, you've never experienced the insane fun that is defending/raiding hotspots and popular monarchy dungeons. This was a common thing on a game like Asheron's Call on the Darktide server, you would get a group together, buff up your characters and raid a dungeon and slay a ton of people in the monarchy, and then you would portal back up to the entrance and wait for the counter-attack which depending on the group might be something to the tune of 200 people coming in after you (ahhh the glory days of blood). THAT, my friends, is what pvp is meant to be, something that you can never experience if you don't want to put the time and effort into games where it should practically be a pre-requisite to owning them.
As an aside, to the kid who posted above, commenting on my grammer.... I got one word for you, "banded". It's wise not to make sure you're not a total slack jawed troglodyte before you try on the big boy pants and comment on other people's grammar.
Lol, you're the one who said "banded", that's why i'm laughing at you for making fun of my grammar....
It's funny to me that you believe that because I can write in a compitent fashion and post legibly and without spelling errors, that i've somehow achieved less than your stumbling drivel.
lol - okay i see your point to some extent - you cant complain about being crap if you only play for an hour a week, like any hobby/activity mmos require (and should require) some time investment.
I was kind of complimenting you on your grammer? oh and kid? if your still at college i think i'm a lttle older than you.
*edit*
-yawn- ok i cant be bothered to read all that, your first post was about a tenth of that lenght now after a few edits it about what 500 words? i mean look at it... sheesh. In fact in total thats over 2000 words on this page alone
I like Lionel.
If what you say is true Zenodice, it doesn't get you anywhere. PVPers basically can't complain about non-pvp games if they demand games like Darktide, just the inverse of non-pvp players can't complain about PVP games. I see that happening all the time though, that seems to be what this thread is about.
And I think the basic idea the developers have is that if they let people get scared off by open PVP, at least the Darwinian process you're describing, then you don't have as many subscriptions. Which means you recoup the cost of making the game slower, if ever. Plus because people expect new content to come out, all the developers have to be paid. The servers have to be paid for. The customer support staff has to be payed for and so on and so forth. There is an answer to the thread's question. A game with high-risks is going to be seen as high-risk financially.
If your job is producing games for profit, are you going to make the kind of game that is known to get a lot of money or spend an equal amount of resources on the unproven one?
Post Deleted
I have a knack for saying stupid things
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
You know, if you would have acually read my post beside skimming through it, you would know that i said a good portion of "hardcore" gamers are kids, i DIDNT say all. And sorry, but your the ignorant one. You say we should all spend our lives sucked into a game. We have lives, friends, girlfriends, works, wives, grades, and everything else we need to worry about, besides being the ub3r l33+ h4x0rz d00d. And please keep a little proof under your belt next time you make stupid remarks; your remark of people barely play casually is just idiotic. 60-70% of MMO players are casual. They want to achieve something in the game, they just dont have TIME for it. You may have all the time in the world, others have other matters to attend to. You also have no right to tell us which game we can play which game we cant, its just arrogant. Please, back up some proof to back up your remarks. My proof: ask people on this forum wether they play casually or hardcore.
Sry for the double posts.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
Since you obviously can't read what I posted i'll summerize your points and prove you wrong that way and make it easy for you.
1) You say we should all spend our lives sucked into a game. We have lives, friends, girlfriends, works, wives, grades, and everything else we need to worry about, besides being the ub3r l33+ h4x0rz d00d
I stated in my post that I play maybe an hour or two a day, I also stated I work and am currently taking a dual certificate in college for programming and LAN, thus I know all too well how real life works. Also, calling anybody who isn't a casual player a hax0r d00d just dates you and makes you look like an old man, just because people enjoy pvp doesnt mean they're 10 year old "leet" kids, in fact I know a ton of people who play DT in their 20s-30s, most of which aren't nearly as ignorant as yourself
2) And please keep a little proof under your belt next time you make stupid remarks; your remark of people barely play casually is just idiotic. 60-70% of MMO players are casual. They want to achieve something in the game, they just dont have TIME for it
Please note, this is EXACTLY what I said in my post you moron. But maybe i'll make it a bit clearer for you IF YOU DONT HAVE TIME TO PLAY MMOs ON A SEMI REGULAR BASIS, DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY ON THEM! How hard is this to comprehend? Honestly...
3) You also have no right to tell us which game we can play which game we cant, its just arrogant.
I never told people what to play, I simply suggested that if you have no time to play a MMO youd be much better off playing RTS/FPS games because they take ALOT less time investment to pay off.
4) blah blah blah proof blah blah blah
Explain to me how one proves that casual players who whine about how hard MMOs are and how its impossible to be competitive, to be the morons that they are for wasting their money. Other than polling the entire MMO player base there is no way to have proof, for or against this case as its all subjective. But then again, I wouldn't begin to expect you to even understand what subjective means in the first place.
Now, please stop, you're embarassing yourself with your blatent contradictions and poor reading comprehension.
I totally agree with this. I'm tired of people who play mmorpgs for 5 hours a week, and when they are on they constantly complain how everyone else has passed them up. It's my MAIN irk in mmorpgs. I Don't play as much as some, but do i say "DAMN ALL THESE PEOPLE WITH MAX LEVEL!!! IF I WAS A NO LIFE LOSER AND PLAYED ALL DAY ID BE GOOD TOO!!!" no i don't. Video gaming is a hobby, its great going outside, walking the dog, seeing family, working, school. But when you got free time for say 8 hours, i don't see anything wrong with sitting down and playing video games. But people yell at you for doing it. I bet they wouldn't yell at you if you went and skateboarded for 8 hours(which one of my friends does). Different people like different things. I personally am more on the nerdy side with the books etc but whatcha gonna do =P
Anywhos back on topic.
carebear, is a offensive word period. calling people carebears is basically saying "if you don't like being griefed, your a carebear"
Open pvp will never truly work without restrictions strong enough to not make it open pvp, there was a reason UO changed people.
Not because of the system, but because of the players, untill theres a "giant eye in the sky" which watches all the pvp acts in the world, there will truly never be a situation free of griefing, heck even in wow pvp servers its a gankfest. Lvl 50s killing 30s, 30s killing 15s, 60s killing 40s, etc etc, not even getting honor from the kills.
I've been told "just get over it and stop complaining" your such a "carebear"... no i just know what sucks and what doesn't.
If every morning on my way out to walk my dog, some guy just came up and beat the living crap out of me, steals my dog, my wallet, clothes, and then leaves me there, then when i get out of the hospital, hes waiting outside with a new pipe he bought with the loot he got from me, and just beats me with it again, steals everything including the hospital wrist band... I'd eventually just stop going outside alltogether. Same concept.
I quit playing lineage 2, because while SLOWLY leveling, some guy just comes over and ganks me and i'd lose a hour of playtime from exp loss, AND chancing that my gear will drop.... It just wasn't fun for me anymore.
I love world of warcrafts system, pvp servers, and normal servers. PvP servers offer everything besides corpse looting(but really if thats what you really want... nobody wants you in a mmorpg, corpse looting does not make it more exciting, it just makes it so itemization in the game will be horrible. Look at tibia, I knew someone irl who was friends with the person who had the BEST shield in his bank. But refused ot ever take it out, let alone use it, just because everyone would kill him and take it. So why bother using it?). Town raids, battlegrounds, griefing. What's wrong with that? If your pvping for corpse looting... your pvping for the wrong reason. Even with no real consequences, i get my blood pumping in wow pvp. Not so i can get some insane loot, or even honor ranks, just the thought of killing other players in a equal setting is what makes it fun, its challenging, and when i lose, which i do just as much as i win. I can go back and fight... NOT with corpse looting, i lose ONCE, and now i gotta go farm new gear again, prolly even load onto my crafter alt to create some.
Your not hardcore, your a griefgank plain and simple.
There is no such thing as a carebear, there is no such thing as hardcore. There are 4 categories, which don't have titles, but just dictate how someone will play. Not their entire personality opinion on things and stuff.
PvE player, this guy likes the pve game, pvp isn't really a concern, and it doesn't really interest them, they may do it every now and then but its not what they play for. 90% of the time they don't diss pvpers unless they start bragging on it(but everyone disses them then)
Normal player, this guy like to PvE, and like to PvP. As long as PvP doesn't interfere with PvE. For example, They don't have to PvP to PvE, but PvE would help PvP. (I fall into this category)
PvP player, this guy likes the pvp game, PvE is a annoyance, which bores them, but they can enjoy it at times. They normally don't diss PvE players, and jumps at the chance to get into a fight be it a battlegrounds, dueling, RvR, etc.
GG player(grief ganker), this guy LOVES to PvP, anything else is so boring, that it makes him laugh that other people can do it. This guy will attack other gamers who don't feel that PvP is the holy grail, that a game can't live without. Will always attack PvE player's opinions, and then complain about them whining. Unfortunately these people are the main market for open pvp games, yet they are the same reason why they don't succeed.
I like wow where i get to choose when i do both, I normally get around 2000-4000 hks before lvl 50, on a normal server. So its far from me not liking pvp. I just don't like getting ganked, not because I'm a carebear, but just because NOONE likes fighting a fight where they can't win.
like i said before open pvp will only truly succeed when its so limited that its not TRULY open pvp.
The question is, how much entertainment is worth 15$/30 days to people? If I only played for an hour every other day, thats a buck an hour. What cool thing can I do with that dollar instead every other day? Buy a candy bar? Thats like one trip to the movies in the whole month. Way less if you take someone else and buy food.
As long as you do not perceive the $15 as being worth more than your experiences in the game, what you're doing makes sense. You only should explicitly not pay when $15 is worth more than playing the game to you.
It seems really moot to make arguments about dedication or time spent. What if you don't start a game right when it comes out? Even if by some bizarre happenstance every player spends the same length of time per month in game, if people started a year before me I'll be exactly a year behind them reaching the level cap. If we're still in the "Darkfall Scenario" it will probably take me longer.
But thats not how that would work anyway. Even if we all spent the same length of time leveling up, what if I didn't train combat skills that whole time? What if I gimp myself because its my first character? Or something was useful that I trained up and it gets nerfed?
Of course, the likelihood of everyone spending the same number of hours per month in game is minuscule. There are going to be people who play the game with extreme dedication
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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amen.
I love when I start a thread with an opinion and I get 7 pages of bickering between children.
keep up the good work
Soon I can substantiate my claim that this community is no better than the childish wow community.
[quote]Originally posted by BBT3
[b]This link might interest you.
[url=http://www.mpog.com/discussion.cfm?load=forums&loadforum=51&loadthread=51094&setstart=1&loadclass=35&fp=1280,1024,1625602562,20050920140511]
Scroll down to a guy named nthnaoun who says;
"well i dont know of any out there currently youd be interested in but irth online and roma victor will both be free and will be out soon. i suggest playing whatever your playing now until one of those comes out."
[/b][/quote]
Try Dark Age of Camelot - they have Realm vs. Realm - basically all out war which provides bonuses to your faction.
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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Obviously your the troll here Umbrood since you didn't read my post at all, as I've stated before I go to college and i'm currently taking 2 courses, Software Engineering and LAN, as well as working part-time for 20 hours a week. Thus, I'm not saying people should dedicate 16 hours a day to games, what i'm saying is, don't play for an hour or two a week and then whine about not being competitive. If you read the rest of my original post you might realize i'm not condemning people for NOT having time, i'm condemning the morons who don't have time and still WHINE like 10 year olds and wonder why they cant compete.
If you don't have time to play the game regularly, that's fine, you're the one wasting your money not me, however if you take it that 1 step further and start bitching about everything in the game being too hard until they nerf it, that's when you start to piss me off. If you can't see this as a legitimate complaint, play ANY MMO for a year or two + and then see how the majority of the player base feels about the devs and the "casual" players who whine about difficulty. I'm betting you'll see a lot of anger because people whine and whine and whine until the devs have no choice but to make the game easy, more often than not, too easy. Then the people who start playing the game 2 years late can have characters that are as developed as the ones who have played for 2 years, if you think that's fair than I take it your one of the ones who usually benefits from this type of babying.
Now, i'll say this for the last damn time in this thread and the next incompitent simp that states otherwise will just have to figure it out themselves. There's nothing wrong with having a hectic schedule and not being able to play games, but when you actively complain that you should be just as powerful and have just as much loot/resources in a game where you play 10% as much as the regular active playerbase, than you are a jackass, period.
I'll take words out of Umbrood's mouth here and use it as a perfect analogy. When people who, for whatever reason, have no time to play a game and then complain that they're characters are not strong enough and it's unfair that people who play more have better equipment, stats and gear, it's the equivalent to welfare bums who complain they don't get as much money as doctors, welders and all other manner of legitimate jobs. To achieve something in a game, you had better be prepared to take the time to do it, and if you complain that it's not fair that you have to do it just because you dont have time, that makes you whiny, lazy and flat out childish.
I agree with zenodice on the whining part, with work comes reward. This thread should have been locked long ago, this is now just a large flame war. Skelz, you started this also, the blame falls a good dela on you, but also to others who kept fueling this.
People have playing preferences, if you dont like how they play, shut up, deal with it, move on. This goes for casual gamers too. Stop shoving your play style into peoples faces and say "OMG Harcore pwns teh carebear noobs!" becuase frankly, your just making yourself look stupid. Same for casual gamers, dont go around saying "PvP games suck! they should be destroyed! There teh badz0rs!". Now lets all please put this to rest. This should hopefully become a rule on no mroe of these types of threads.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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Thats what I think too... It goes back to my other posts. A developer trying to make money off a game is going to go for the more casual players. Or at least thats a distinct possibility. If they make the game fun but undemanding you probably do end up with a game that has a smaller pay-off overall, most of all if you're a hardcore player.
However, if the developer can convince someone to play for a few hours a month, and make those few hours fun, then you've got a paying customer who is consuming less bandwidth than a corresponding hardcore. And you make exactly the same monthly fee off the hardcore as off the casual guy, at least if the casual guy keeps playing for the same length of time as the hardcore one.
I'm not putting down developers here, if this was even a conscious choice. It obviously was in, say, WoW. But its an entirely sensible choice to make. The market demands X, you deliver X. Obviously, whenever people get bored of X something else will step in and take its place (maybe more hardcore games). The talk of this being developer driven has its point, but if the sort of game being described didn't sell as well or better than the alternative?
we need shadowbane done right w/ better interface, graphics, freaking WASD etc etc etc
problem solved.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.