Originally posted by Ginaz Wait. Theres an item in the cash shop that gives you a 10% damage bonus in pve? I can see that as something hardcore pve guilds will require their members to have before they engage in the end game content. Same sort of thing happens in World of Tanks clan wars. Gold ammo (ammo bought with real money) is a must have for those guys, though, you can earn it in some way doing clan wars.
And yet some of these buffs are available through the Cooking Profession, so I guess every hardcore pve guild will have each of its members at level 400 in cooking to do that. Well, it will be nice to see people doing something else.
Originally posted by Ginaz Wait. Theres an item in the cash shop that gives you a 10% damage bonus in pve? I can see that as something hardcore pve guilds will require their members to have before they engage in the end game content. Same sort of thing happens in World of Tanks clan wars. Gold ammo (ammo bought with real money) is a must have for those guys, though, you can earn it in some way doing clan wars.
How it works is that you can buy keys in the shop. Those keys unlock chests that you can find in the world and that drop. The keys also drop, can be gotten for doing storyline stuff, and completion bonuses, but you don't get as many as you get chests. It's about a $1.57 for a key. (Really expensive, honestly -- I actually don't know what is going through their head with some of the prices for consumables). You buy gems, btw, then buy things from the store with gems. Gems can be bought with gold too, but likely they'll be expensive.
Inside the chest, sometimes there's a boost. There's one that gives +10% damage, another that reduces damge by 10%, a speed boost of 25%, and a health regen boost (not sure how much). What boost you get is random. You can also get these boosts as drops in the game world, as rewards for story quests, and as completion bonuses. They last for one hour.
Originally posted by Ginaz Wait. Theres an item in the cash shop that gives you a 10% damage bonus in pve? I can see that as something hardcore pve guilds will require their members to have before they engage in the end game content. Same sort of thing happens in World of Tanks clan wars. Gold ammo (ammo bought with real money) is a must have for those guys, though, you can earn it in some way doing clan wars.
And yet some of these buffs are available through the Cooking Profession, so I guess every hardcore pve guild will have each of its members at level 400 in cooking to do that. Well, it will be nice to see people doing something else.
SIMILAR buffs are available via cooking, but not the same ones. By all appearances, they'll stack.
Again, there is NO DATA to suggest that the boosts from mystic chests are REQUIRED to complete any content.
Your argument is invalid.
And btw, I miss your old signature.
To be fair, it isn't an issue of requirement so much as whether it makes content significantly easier. Well, that in additionally whether it is something you can only get for money. 10% damage done/10% less damage taken/25% speed/some sort of health regen would certainly give a noticeable bump, but overall these are fairly small buffs. Additionally they can be acquired with some more difficulty to anyone. So overall I don't think there's that much to be worried about, depending on the acquirement rate without spending real world money.
I do think this would be slightly problematic if it existed as something you could ONLY get by spending money.
I agree with you that buffs can make content easier. That's why, before every raid in WoW, we made sure we had our feast and flasks and pots ready for bloodlust along with group castable buffs.
The question is whether or not boosts from chest fall under the category of P2W, as some posters have suggested. If this were the case, then boosts from chests would be required to do content. In other words, you would have to pay money to get the buffs necessary to do the fights to get the gear. Some games have this.
In GW2, this does not appear to be the case. Food buffs can replicate many of the boosts that are randomly provided by the chests, and yes that 10% can be helpful. The point that I am making is that they are not a requirement for completing content.
It's not P2W, that's certainly true. I've said that several times in this thread. The boosts are too small to possibly allow for a P2W-type mechanic.
I think the real argument is whether it is "Pay for an unseemly advantage." And well, that depends on how things drop in the game. It doesn't seem to be that either at first glance, but we won't know for some time.
Originally posted by Psychow P2W isn't limited to PvP. If the scenario happend like in bcbully's example, I'd consider that P2W.
How?
What item from that Dragon Boss in Bcbully's description can a gem buyer gain that I cannot through conventional means? What item from that Dragon Boss has higher damage values or higher armor rating or gives his higher stats then what I can gain just doing a normal dynamic event or a random drop. The difference is stat distribution and looks.
both items deal 100-200 damage, have the same value of stats (i.e. 30 power, 30 condition damage, 30 vitality on the first and 60 condition damage and 30 vitality on the boss drop)
Both items are statistical twins, in other words they are both the same item level in WoW terminology. One is generalized and the other is more specificily tuned to a condition spec.
One looks plain, the other looks badass, neither will give anyone a statistical advantage over someone else but will allow someone to be more specialized and the other more generalized.
Nothing is P2W here.
I'll stop typing in annoying single sentence paragraphs now.
My post was not about the reward. It was about winning and losing. Defeating and wiping
Ok I see what BCbully is saying he mean that there have been some guilds stating they will have money in hand at launch to by keys to get boosts from chests in order to win at certain things. But what I know is you can't use boosts in PvP and even using boost with food boosts its really not much of a difference in dmg or anythign speed yes you move way fast. I fell alot in LA looking for POI that I died from it. But he has a valid point in some ways it is pay to win cause they are using RL money to buy keys to get boosts to beat bosses but in the end there just doing it faster.
Yeah it adds a bonus but to me its not enough to warrent P2W screams in my opinion. But everyone has there own.
The thing is it isn't only PVP that is competitive. A lot of guilds / people take PVE seriously and will want to be the firsts with legendary weapons or to take down epic world bosses or DE's. By being able to buy the boosts or the keys to get the boosts at a more consistent rate, some might see it as pay to win. Not being first might not matter to you, but to people like my wife that is everything.
Again, there is NO DATA to suggest that the boosts from mystic chests are REQUIRED to complete any content.
Your argument is invalid.
And btw, I miss your old signature.
To be fair, it isn't an issue of requirement so much as whether it makes content significantly easier. Well, that in additionally whether it is something you can only get for money. 10% damage done/10% less damage taken/25% speed/some sort of health regen would certainly give a noticeable bump, but overall these are fairly small buffs. Additionally they can be acquired with some more difficulty to anyone. So overall I don't think there's that much to be worried about, depending on the acquirement rate without spending real world money.
I do think this would be slightly problematic if it existed as something you could ONLY get by spending money.
I agree with you that buffs can make content easier. That's why, before every raid in WoW, we made sure we had our feast and flasks and pots ready for bloodlust along with group castable buffs.
The question is whether or not boosts from chest fall under the category of P2W, as some posters have suggested. If this were the case, then boosts from chests would be required to do content. In other words, you would have to pay money to get the buffs necessary to do the fights to get the gear. Some games have this.
In GW2, this does not appear to be the case. Food buffs can replicate many of the boosts that are randomly provided by the chests, and yes that 10% can be helpful. The point that I am making is that they are not a requirement for completing content.
It's not P2W, that's certainly true. I've said that several times in this thread. The boosts are too small to possibly allow for a P2W-type mechanic.
I think the real argument is whether it is "Pay for an unseemly advantage." And well, that depends on how things drop in the game. It doesn't seem to be that either at first glance, but we won't know for some time.
If the drop rates in game are reasonable for same stuff you can buy in the cash shop then I would say its not a problem. If the drop rates are adjusted in such a way that they are very rare...then its a problem.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Originally posted by Ginaz Wait. Theres an item in the cash shop that gives you a 10% damage bonus in pve? I can see that as something hardcore pve guilds will require their members to have before they engage in the end game content. Same sort of thing happens in World of Tanks clan wars. Gold ammo (ammo bought with real money) is a must have for those guys, though, you can earn it in some way doing clan wars.
And yet some of these buffs are available through the Cooking Profession, so I guess every hardcore pve guild will have each of its members at level 400 in cooking to do that. Well, it will be nice to see people doing something else.
SIMILAR buffs are available via cooking, but not the same ones. By all appearances, they'll stack.
True to an extent, the problem is only a few people know what goes beyond level 200 or so in cooking buffs, I think gw2guru had a page with all the reciepes you can have for the items. What the buffs are available is a whole other story, for all we know there are comparable if not better buffs available. So its a coin-toss to see how cooking goes in terms of what it gives you. I managed to get to level 200 in cooking in the BWEs, and I saw some really good comparable buffs. I even suggested a video in Aerowyn's video thread to show what kinds of buffs you can expect at around level 200 (in cooking). Even then that guy didn't have ALL of them, neither did I, there are some ingredients that are missing.
It's not P2W, that's certainly true. I've said that several times in this thread. The boosts are too small to possibly allow for a P2W-type mechanic.
I think the real argument is whether it is "Pay for an unseemly advantage." And well, that depends on how things drop in the game. It doesn't seem to be that either at first glance, but we won't know for some time.
If the drop rates in game are reasonable for same stuff you can buy in the cash shop then I would say its not a problem. If the drop rates are adjusted in such a way that they are very rare...then its a problem.
I think it essentially comes down to whether you naturally get enough resources/boosts for dungeons on exploration. For other PvE it simply doesn't matter at all, imho.
If you can sufficiently use them for that purpose or nearly so, then it is a complete non-issue.
P2W in Guild Wars 2: Boosts to get higher leveled in in PvE which means more Trait/Skills in WvW. Higher leveled players can do more skill challenges because you get one-shot if you're too low to do them.
Real crap that happened in WvW: Guy on our side bought gems, converted to gold and put siege prints all over the place. Guess which side won? Supply is not really an issue because everyone always picked it up and you can do a supply run if you even need it.
Bunches of Non-Cash shop people (With supply) vs wall = long time until the wall is dead.
One guy who spends real money with bunch of people vs wall = Wall destroyed 100x faster
Why are people defending a f2p cash shop in a game that cost $60? You never see people defending f2p game cash shops, mostly complaints. Even if they're not P2W.
P2W in Guild Wars 2: Boosts to get higher leveled in in PvE which means more Trait/Skills in WvW. Higher leveled players can do more skill challenges because you get one-shot if you're too low to do them.
Real crap that happened in WvW: Guy on our side bought gems, converted to gold and put siege prints all over the place. Guess which side won? Supply is not really an issue because everyone always picked it up and you can do a supply run if you even need it.
Bunches of Non-Cash shop people (With supply) vs wall = long time until the wall is dead.
One guy who spends real money with bunch of people vs wall = Wall destroyed 100x faster
Why are people defending a f2p cash shop in a game that cost $60? You never see people defending f2p game cash shops, mostly complaints. Even if they're not P2W.
Comments
And yet some of these buffs are available through the Cooking Profession, so I guess every hardcore pve guild will have each of its members at level 400 in cooking to do that. Well, it will be nice to see people doing something else.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/359874/Aerowyns-Video-Compilation-of-ALL-things-Guild-Wars-2.html
How it works is that you can buy keys in the shop. Those keys unlock chests that you can find in the world and that drop. The keys also drop, can be gotten for doing storyline stuff, and completion bonuses, but you don't get as many as you get chests. It's about a $1.57 for a key. (Really expensive, honestly -- I actually don't know what is going through their head with some of the prices for consumables). You buy gems, btw, then buy things from the store with gems. Gems can be bought with gold too, but likely they'll be expensive.
Inside the chest, sometimes there's a boost. There's one that gives +10% damage, another that reduces damge by 10%, a speed boost of 25%, and a health regen boost (not sure how much). What boost you get is random. You can also get these boosts as drops in the game world, as rewards for story quests, and as completion bonuses. They last for one hour.
SIMILAR buffs are available via cooking, but not the same ones. By all appearances, they'll stack.
It's not P2W, that's certainly true. I've said that several times in this thread. The boosts are too small to possibly allow for a P2W-type mechanic.
I think the real argument is whether it is "Pay for an unseemly advantage." And well, that depends on how things drop in the game. It doesn't seem to be that either at first glance, but we won't know for some time.
The thing is it isn't only PVP that is competitive. A lot of guilds / people take PVE seriously and will want to be the firsts with legendary weapons or to take down epic world bosses or DE's. By being able to buy the boosts or the keys to get the boosts at a more consistent rate, some might see it as pay to win. Not being first might not matter to you, but to people like my wife that is everything.
If the drop rates in game are reasonable for same stuff you can buy in the cash shop then I would say its not a problem. If the drop rates are adjusted in such a way that they are very rare...then its a problem.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
True to an extent, the problem is only a few people know what goes beyond level 200 or so in cooking buffs, I think gw2guru had a page with all the reciepes you can have for the items. What the buffs are available is a whole other story, for all we know there are comparable if not better buffs available. So its a coin-toss to see how cooking goes in terms of what it gives you. I managed to get to level 200 in cooking in the BWEs, and I saw some really good comparable buffs. I even suggested a video in Aerowyn's video thread to show what kinds of buffs you can expect at around level 200 (in cooking). Even then that guy didn't have ALL of them, neither did I, there are some ingredients that are missing.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/359874/Aerowyns-Video-Compilation-of-ALL-things-Guild-Wars-2.html
I think it essentially comes down to whether you naturally get enough resources/boosts for dungeons on exploration. For other PvE it simply doesn't matter at all, imho.
If you can sufficiently use them for that purpose or nearly so, then it is a complete non-issue.
P2W in Guild Wars 2: Boosts to get higher leveled in in PvE which means more Trait/Skills in WvW. Higher leveled players can do more skill challenges because you get one-shot if you're too low to do them.
Real crap that happened in WvW: Guy on our side bought gems, converted to gold and put siege prints all over the place. Guess which side won? Supply is not really an issue because everyone always picked it up and you can do a supply run if you even need it.
Bunches of Non-Cash shop people (With supply) vs wall = long time until the wall is dead.
One guy who spends real money with bunch of people vs wall = Wall destroyed 100x faster
Why are people defending a f2p cash shop in a game that cost $60? You never see people defending f2p game cash shops, mostly complaints. Even if they're not P2W.
Hype.