Hey guys - (just to start so no flaming occurs) i will be playing gw2 so I am not a hater. I just have a more general question.
Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc. I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera.
Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself. Does it provide to much of a challenge. Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.
I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .
what are peoples thoughts on this?
They don't like it because of immature people like you.
Originally posted by Drachasor When a level 50 guy shows up in the level 10 zone, you can't defend yourself. You're dead. It's not about being "too much of a challenge", but rather open world PvP encourages people to behave like jerks. I don't like that kind of "gameplay."
I disagree, this is poorly implemented game design... The developers have to possess some foresight when designing their game and if they overlook various design flaws, things like this happen.
In a game that provides an open world there is more to consider, and the WoW developers did not consider these things... Except to create PvE servers, which is fine, but it is a bandaid to the flaw...
I disagree that open world PVP is the reason for the encouraging of jerky people, I would argue the design flaw is the reason and the jerkiness from players is emergent behavior. Blizzard clearly did not design their game to accommodate that kind of behavior otherwise they never would have created PvE servers.
Originally posted by Drachasor When a level 50 guy shows up in the level 10 zone, you can't defend yourself. You're dead. It's not about being "too much of a challenge", but rather open world PvP encourages people to behave like jerks. I don't like that kind of "gameplay."
Yeah same problem I have with it also......It seems like those kind of games have the hunters and the hunted.....I think a few are the hunters and many are the hunted....The biggest problem with open world pvp is that there is never a fair fight.
Regarding people who complain about always getting ganked, I just don't see it. I've been playing MMO's for over a decade almost exclusively on PvP servers and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been griefed by an unreasonably higher level player.
nah, I don't buy that. Not saying you are lying but it's not representative of what really goes on.
keep in mind that when Lineage 3 comes out i'll be one of the first in line. I'm seriously thinking of dropping my Tera PvE character for my pvp character. I enjoy ffa pvp.
However, I've witnessed people getting ganked far more than some people in this thread are saying that they've experienced it.
Heck, in Lineage 2, for a solid week, some high levels were going to Talking Island and just obliterating all the new players. Players kept asking us higher levelled players to come to talking Island and patrol it.
In Aion alone I was killed about 10 times by not only higher levle players but a mob of them. And I've killed an equal amount of gankers who were preying on lower level areas.
In Tera I had to jump in and take on two attackers who were ganging up on one player. Took out one and the other high tailed it out of there to a ctiy, with me in pursuit. Such was the bravery there.
There is a group of people who love to go into low level areas or just wait until someone is low in health as they pve and then swoop in.
I personally don't care because it's no skin off my nose. But there are people who just wanted to have a calm, enjoyable gaming experience in a controlled environment and don't want to deal with being ganked and then, in some cases, being insulted.
Griefing is uncommon in OWPVP games??? Total and absolute bull feces. I like the example here. I played Lineage 2 and I was ganked daily. My oldest son belonged to a group that ganked all the time. When I dared leave 1.0 space in Eve I usually lasted a few hours before I was ganked. In Aion I was ganked regularly. I almost quit WOW in vanilla when I started on a pvp server and was ganked consistently. Maybe it is me (LOL) but ganking is NOT uncommon.
Open world PvP is a fine mechanism, I personally think GW2 could have an open world PvP system, and there's no reason for them not to add a server with this kind of system for the players that want it, it only happens to be that, at this point in GW2's design map it hasn't been developed, and isn't part of the core design.
From my experience it seems to be a mechanism that needs everyone to participate to be useful. Since there are many options available that don't require people to have to deal with OWPVP so the population of players willing to OWPVP does not contain all types. The people it appeals to think, for the most part, they are going to be part of the strong. When a majority find out they are not the community deteriorates. The community that thinks (or does) like this tends to eat itself. So much developement effort wasted.
Open world PvP is a fine mechanism, I personally think GW2 could have an open world PvP system, and there's no reason for them not to add a server with this kind of system for the players that want it, it only happens to be that, at this point in GW2's design map it hasn't been developed, and isn't part of the core design.
That's all there is to it.
OWPVP not only isn't part of the core design... it goes completely against the core design.
From day 1 the idea of GW2, and it's repeated every single time they talk about it, is that you'll never be afraid/angry at seeing other people, and the game is built up from the ground up with this in mind, which is why characters levels are scaled down, event difficulty and rewards scale up with players and so on. OWPVP no only goes directly against this (that is the whole phylosophy behind the game) but actually would break the system developed for it.
For example, how would a dynamic event where anyone could join work if your AoE attacks would hit other players? The combo system was meant as a way for two players to spontaneously collaborate.. how would it work on a PvP server?... if I jump into the flames created by another character, so I activate a combo or die? If I do activate a combo, would it count as my or his attack? would it hit him?.
There are plenty of games where OWPvP would (and does) work... GW2 is just not one of them, unless you change it enough that it's a completely different game.
They don't when it's implemented properly, in a setting and fashion that makes sense. They do when it's badly implemented in a way that leads to rampant griefing.
EVE has open PvP. It also has checks and balances to prevent rampant griefing and you're made aware that you're heading for trouble the further out of Empire space you travel.
MO has open PvP. It has a small population of "hardcore" players because it suffers from griefing.
The question isn't why people hate open PvP, but why people hate being ganked by some dickhead and his mates who just want to ruin your day because they can. And it does happen.
I must agree with this.
The whole basis of owpvp, with or without full loot, is risk vs reward. Most of the times, neither exist or the risk is just not there. The biggest counter is that players don't wanty to be punished for their playstyle.
This is correct, if you play a hardcore owpvp game and complain, it's your fault. But i think mmorpgs can have them, even as a "side feature" as long as there's something to keep balance.
IMHO, it's not a playstyle that belongs only in sandboxes or hardcore games, like Lineage.
I like open world pvp, in games where pvp was fun, it mattered and no matter what level or how many skill points you had, there was a chance you could win.
I loved open world pvp in asherons call. once you got about level 50 there was a decent chance you could beat anyone if you knew what you were doing. when you killed someone or you died you dropped items, there was a reason to pvp back then. most games nowadays, what is the reason for pvp, there is not one. in level based games its even worse, if a level 80 jumps on a level 70 then the level 70 is simply dead, the power gap is too large to compete in level based games so therefore it is not fun.
give me a game that makes pvp fun, like asherons call was and I will play it. give me wow style open world pvp and ill pass.
What does OWPvP provide that isn't provided in something like RvR or WvWvW? The only mechanical difference I can think of is heavily unbalanced PvP. There's not even a chance at balanced PvP. This might be why most people are not that enthusiastic about it.
I would think a lot of this has to do with the developers. It should be possible to have open world pvp that isn't lame, but I've yet to see it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I don't hate OWPvP. I hate poorly implemented OWPvP.
When you look back at the older games like UO and SB, they had actual consequences that made people stop and ask "is this worth the risk?"
In UO reds had stat/skill loss when they died, were freely attackable without consequences by anyone, and were kill on sight in every guard zone. They had to worry about going into an area full of blues because they were always taking a huge risk. Even a group of reds entering a high traffic area like the Delucia grave yard and orc fort were at risk of being swarmed and not being able to recall away before they died. There is nothing as satisfying as harm spamming a red as he frantically tries to recall out of a certain death situation and then watching the "OoOOOOooooO OOO oooOOo" rage spam after he dies.
In SB politics were a huge factor. One night a group from a nearby city killed a bunch of our low level guild members. I went to that guild's nation leader and informed him that unless they were errant in the next 5 minutes I would camp his city for the next week and then burn it to the ground. He refused, and my nation proceeded to spend the next few days destroying every building in the city that wasn't invulnerable, and then took their tree when the bane went live. They still showed up every now and then to cause trouble, but killing them sent them back to their new city an hour away.
You need those kinds of consequences in an OWPvP game or you end up with games like WoW. In WoW gankers could run around attacking people with no actual risk, because even if they die they just respawn 30 seconds away and go back to ganking people while they PvE. There's no way to get rid of them and the only actual losses are to the people the gankers are attacking, in the form of lost time, XP, gold and equipment. That's a broken and flawed system that causes people to quit out of frustration.
I think OwPvP can be set up properly. I just have not seen it done.
Without the possiblity of a lunatic with a hatchet coming to clean your clock what is the point? Amiright? There should be "Low Sec" areas in every game the yeild better results and have the possiblity of action.
These games should be about enginering a story for the night and so far the mass majority of people want to pick flowers and harvest fish in peace.I don't much care to role play that story. I like the story about bandits came and tryed to take my boots and I killed them.
SWTOR made me less of a "Good Guy" however I got a taste of smuggler ganking in the PVP battlegrounds and I kind of like that now.
the only thing i hate about owpvp games is that there all gear based games, so someone with the most time spends it all getting pvp gear then fights people without it. make a game with the gear of gw2 and i'll love the owpvp in it. gear treadmill games are what killed it for me
even in wow, it was fun until people started getting gear and the its just "Own" or be "Owned. no real fighting
Last time I checked, you can duel anyone, anywhere, anytime... and yet, so few participate in it.
OWPVP fails because players don't want to participate in it. Even on so-called PVP servers, half the player base avoids it. They'd rather do battlegrounds or some other fish-bowl PVP than head out in the world and hope that someone actually is out there to kill.
GW2 would gain nothing by adding OWPVP other than to turn the world into a ghost town. Players will hang out where they can't be griefed. In the end all you will have done is shrunk your gaming world.
Battlegrounds and PVP zones exist for PVP. Dueling can be done anywhere. You have more than ample opportunity to kill players, fair and unfairly at your disposal. If you choose not to participate in them, that's your doing, not the developers.
owPvP only works when the economy (risk v reward) is there for the "prey".
Why would I want to put up with a game that promotes ganking and griefing if the only thing I get out of it is questing xp. That's why Eve works - there is massive value for the 'prey' to head out into the lawless space.
tldr: I'll risk getting ganked if the cheese is large enough.
Currently Playing: GW2 Retired: Shadowbane, DAoC, WoW, FFXI, Eve Online, SWToR
Hmm, beyond what I said on the first page, I think another reason I dislike open world PvP is because my empathy is fairly high.
You kill a monster, it doesn't care. It's not real. I feel free to completely enjoy it. Working with others in PvE is rewarding and overcoming challenges can be an intense experience.
PvP is often intense too, but the emotional mix is different. I know how frustrating it feels to be losing, and I know when I'm winning there are other people feeling the exact same way. Sometimes too the other side or my side does emotes or the like that are just rather revolting -- and they do this because we're playing against real people. The ideal PvP is perhaps when both sides are evenly matched and both win some and lose some. There are few conflicted feelings there. That doesn't happen a whole lot though. Often I'm dealing with my frustration with myself or my team or I'm facing my internal sorrow over stomping some poor folk into the ground. And of course, everything becomes more personal in PvP -- I don't enjoy invoking anger and frustration in others.
That's not to say I can't enjoy PvP. I've even led PvP raids in WoW's Wintergrasp which was a lot of fun. I've played FPS games of various sorts doing team PvP in them. Heck, I played LoL for months. But it is something I don't want to do all the time, especially when there's a world to explore and things to do. Of course, part of what makes for enjoyable PvP for me is when there's something that makes it more balanced so both sides have a fair shot. An FPS will try to balance teams. LoL tried to build balanced teams. MMO Arenas have some sort of team balancing. GW2's WvWvW will have a matchmaking system. That helps a lot in making the experience enjoyable.
When I dared leave 1.0 space in Eve I usually lasted a few hours before I was ganked.
Did nobody tell you, that outside of EVE-Empire there is a rule called NBSI (not blue, shoot it)? Did nobody tell you, to get a guild, just fly with friends in such territories and fly much faster if facing a superior gang?
These guys did not gank you. They just followed the NBSI-rule, which is neccesary for surival in territorial pvp-warfare. Of course there are also NRDS areas (Not red, dont shoot). You should have tried these first or never left the Empire at all. Its big enough for PVE.
As long as there is a clear separation of huge safe PVE zones and OWPVP i cant see any griefing or ganking by definition. Thats why i say, that EVE should get rid of highsec-ganking, even if i myself was never stupid enough to get ganked in highsec.
BTW, i am not a fan of games like Darkfall or Mortal online, where you can attack everybody, everwhere (but inside cities). However I would play them. Because i prefer sandboxes over themeparks. But i tried them and i saw bad games, e.g the skillsystem of Darkfall which is simply unacceptable. I hope for DF 2.0 with a better system and hopefully some bigger safe zones.
The main reason why i dont like Owpvp is gear/level difference. Pack hunting is almost a must in those games so thats another reason i usaly dont stick with em. It can be fun for a short while but it aint the pvp fix im looking for.
Hey guys - (just to start so no flaming occurs) i will be playing gw2 so I am not a hater. I just have a more general question.
Why is it that people do not like true open world pvp, where you can gank anyone while they are questing etc. I enjoyed it in wow while it existed (vanilla-slightly BC), Rift was good, and currently gaming in Tera.
Is it the annoyance of being ganked and not being able to defend yourself.
Does it provide to much of a challenge. Or is our generation just lazy and prefer to sit in a town and just que for stuff.
I personally like the OWPVP and being able to mess with someones day while there gathering, questing whatever there doing .
what are peoples thoughts on this?
Aslong it's a optional feature then I like it, if it's forced then I rather play the already forced FPS pvp multiplayer games.
I loved the way it was in SWG where you could be covert or overt, so if you in the mood to take down some enemy guild you had that option, didn't feel like doing pvp again you had that option.
It's the optional feature's this genre use to provide, which is definitly missing so much with most of today's MMO's as most of them are far to much combat oriented that they seem so incredible limited compared to the way's of the old.
Also liked it in Fallen Earth because it "was" also optional, due to me enjoying crafting the best resources came from pvp area's. I liked the thrill of trying to get some of the best resources but also the challenge of making it out alive.
OWPvP looks good on paper. However, I find when you combine the anonymity of the internet with no rulesets or consequences in place (OWPvP), it tends to bring out the worst in people, not the best. Why on God's green earth would I find it "fun" in any way, shape, or form to get repeatedly killed by players I have no chance of defeating, aka gankers? May as well chain stun me to death. I have yet to find 1 person who thinks that getting ganked is any sort of "fun." Maybe some masochist somewhere...
No. For me, OWPvP is the killer in game design. Won't even go there.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
This isn't an attempt at a rebuttal, just a genuine question. Is it not the case that the factors you have listed there are actually not restricted to true OWPVP games but are also an issue within large/very large map/lake pvp situation ala WAR/GW2?
Clearly level disparity should be less of an issue in that case but as for "cat and mouse" and player number disparities, isn't it a similar situation?
True, the more players are involved the less impact I can have on the outcome, but f the player limit stays fixed it leaves out beating your opponent with numbers. One more thing is that everyone in BGs or WvWvW will be there for PvP and nothing else. So atleast everyone you encounter are there to fight.
GW2's best bit will be the structured PvP. I can't take WvWvW seriously because of the non-skill factors.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Comments
They don't like it because of immature people like you.
I disagree, this is poorly implemented game design... The developers have to possess some foresight when designing their game and if they overlook various design flaws, things like this happen.
In a game that provides an open world there is more to consider, and the WoW developers did not consider these things... Except to create PvE servers, which is fine, but it is a bandaid to the flaw...
I disagree that open world PVP is the reason for the encouraging of jerky people, I would argue the design flaw is the reason and the jerkiness from players is emergent behavior. Blizzard clearly did not design their game to accommodate that kind of behavior otherwise they never would have created PvE servers.
^^This X 10,000
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
Yeah same problem I have with it also......It seems like those kind of games have the hunters and the hunted.....I think a few are the hunters and many are the hunted....The biggest problem with open world pvp is that there is never a fair fight.
Griefing is uncommon in OWPVP games??? Total and absolute bull feces. I like the example here. I played Lineage 2 and I was ganked daily. My oldest son belonged to a group that ganked all the time. When I dared leave 1.0 space in Eve I usually lasted a few hours before I was ganked. In Aion I was ganked regularly. I almost quit WOW in vanilla when I started on a pvp server and was ganked consistently. Maybe it is me (LOL) but ganking is NOT uncommon.
Open world PvP is a fine mechanism, I personally think GW2 could have an open world PvP system, and there's no reason for them not to add a server with this kind of system for the players that want it, it only happens to be that, at this point in GW2's design map it hasn't been developed, and isn't part of the core design.
That's all there is to it.
OWPVP not only isn't part of the core design... it goes completely against the core design.
From day 1 the idea of GW2, and it's repeated every single time they talk about it, is that you'll never be afraid/angry at seeing other people, and the game is built up from the ground up with this in mind, which is why characters levels are scaled down, event difficulty and rewards scale up with players and so on. OWPVP no only goes directly against this (that is the whole phylosophy behind the game) but actually would break the system developed for it.
For example, how would a dynamic event where anyone could join work if your AoE attacks would hit other players? The combo system was meant as a way for two players to spontaneously collaborate.. how would it work on a PvP server?... if I jump into the flames created by another character, so I activate a combo or die? If I do activate a combo, would it count as my or his attack? would it hit him?.
There are plenty of games where OWPvP would (and does) work... GW2 is just not one of them, unless you change it enough that it's a completely different game.
What can men do against such reckless hate?
I must agree with this.
The whole basis of owpvp, with or without full loot, is risk vs reward. Most of the times, neither exist or the risk is just not there. The biggest counter is that players don't wanty to be punished for their playstyle.
This is correct, if you play a hardcore owpvp game and complain, it's your fault. But i think mmorpgs can have them, even as a "side feature" as long as there's something to keep balance.
IMHO, it's not a playstyle that belongs only in sandboxes or hardcore games, like Lineage.
I like open world pvp, in games where pvp was fun, it mattered and no matter what level or how many skill points you had, there was a chance you could win.
I loved open world pvp in asherons call. once you got about level 50 there was a decent chance you could beat anyone if you knew what you were doing. when you killed someone or you died you dropped items, there was a reason to pvp back then. most games nowadays, what is the reason for pvp, there is not one. in level based games its even worse, if a level 80 jumps on a level 70 then the level 70 is simply dead, the power gap is too large to compete in level based games so therefore it is not fun.
give me a game that makes pvp fun, like asherons call was and I will play it. give me wow style open world pvp and ill pass.
What does OWPvP provide that isn't provided in something like RvR or WvWvW? The only mechanical difference I can think of is heavily unbalanced PvP. There's not even a chance at balanced PvP. This might be why most people are not that enthusiastic about it.
I would think a lot of this has to do with the developers. It should be possible to have open world pvp that isn't lame, but I've yet to see it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Without having read the entirety of the previous 7 pages of replies, I do not like OWPVP because:
1. It is not FUN for me to have to quest while looking over my shoulder.
2. An entire evening's worth of expected relaxation turns into a pit of frustration.
3. See 1 and 2.
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
I don't hate OWPvP. I hate poorly implemented OWPvP.
When you look back at the older games like UO and SB, they had actual consequences that made people stop and ask "is this worth the risk?"
In UO reds had stat/skill loss when they died, were freely attackable without consequences by anyone, and were kill on sight in every guard zone. They had to worry about going into an area full of blues because they were always taking a huge risk. Even a group of reds entering a high traffic area like the Delucia grave yard and orc fort were at risk of being swarmed and not being able to recall away before they died. There is nothing as satisfying as harm spamming a red as he frantically tries to recall out of a certain death situation and then watching the "OoOOOOooooO OOO oooOOo" rage spam after he dies.
In SB politics were a huge factor. One night a group from a nearby city killed a bunch of our low level guild members. I went to that guild's nation leader and informed him that unless they were errant in the next 5 minutes I would camp his city for the next week and then burn it to the ground. He refused, and my nation proceeded to spend the next few days destroying every building in the city that wasn't invulnerable, and then took their tree when the bane went live. They still showed up every now and then to cause trouble, but killing them sent them back to their new city an hour away.
You need those kinds of consequences in an OWPvP game or you end up with games like WoW. In WoW gankers could run around attacking people with no actual risk, because even if they die they just respawn 30 seconds away and go back to ganking people while they PvE. There's no way to get rid of them and the only actual losses are to the people the gankers are attacking, in the form of lost time, XP, gold and equipment. That's a broken and flawed system that causes people to quit out of frustration.
I think OwPvP can be set up properly. I just have not seen it done.
Without the possiblity of a lunatic with a hatchet coming to clean your clock what is the point? Amiright? There should be "Low Sec" areas in every game the yeild better results and have the possiblity of action.
These games should be about enginering a story for the night and so far the mass majority of people want to pick flowers and harvest fish in peace.I don't much care to role play that story. I like the story about bandits came and tryed to take my boots and I killed them.
SWTOR made me less of a "Good Guy" however I got a taste of smuggler ganking in the PVP battlegrounds and I kind of like that now.
the only thing i hate about owpvp games is that there all gear based games, so someone with the most time spends it all getting pvp gear then fights people without it. make a game with the gear of gw2 and i'll love the owpvp in it. gear treadmill games are what killed it for me
even in wow, it was fun until people started getting gear and the its just "Own" or be "Owned. no real fighting
Last time I checked, you can duel anyone, anywhere, anytime... and yet, so few participate in it.
OWPVP fails because players don't want to participate in it. Even on so-called PVP servers, half the player base avoids it. They'd rather do battlegrounds or some other fish-bowl PVP than head out in the world and hope that someone actually is out there to kill.
GW2 would gain nothing by adding OWPVP other than to turn the world into a ghost town. Players will hang out where they can't be griefed. In the end all you will have done is shrunk your gaming world.
Battlegrounds and PVP zones exist for PVP. Dueling can be done anywhere. You have more than ample opportunity to kill players, fair and unfairly at your disposal. If you choose not to participate in them, that's your doing, not the developers.
owPvP only works when the economy (risk v reward) is there for the "prey".
Why would I want to put up with a game that promotes ganking and griefing if the only thing I get out of it is questing xp. That's why Eve works - there is massive value for the 'prey' to head out into the lawless space.
tldr: I'll risk getting ganked if the cheese is large enough.
Currently Playing: GW2
Retired: Shadowbane, DAoC, WoW, FFXI, Eve Online, SWToR
The Aphelion MMO Blog - GW2 Initial Impressions
Hmm, beyond what I said on the first page, I think another reason I dislike open world PvP is because my empathy is fairly high.
You kill a monster, it doesn't care. It's not real. I feel free to completely enjoy it. Working with others in PvE is rewarding and overcoming challenges can be an intense experience.
PvP is often intense too, but the emotional mix is different. I know how frustrating it feels to be losing, and I know when I'm winning there are other people feeling the exact same way. Sometimes too the other side or my side does emotes or the like that are just rather revolting -- and they do this because we're playing against real people. The ideal PvP is perhaps when both sides are evenly matched and both win some and lose some. There are few conflicted feelings there. That doesn't happen a whole lot though. Often I'm dealing with my frustration with myself or my team or I'm facing my internal sorrow over stomping some poor folk into the ground. And of course, everything becomes more personal in PvP -- I don't enjoy invoking anger and frustration in others.
That's not to say I can't enjoy PvP. I've even led PvP raids in WoW's Wintergrasp which was a lot of fun. I've played FPS games of various sorts doing team PvP in them. Heck, I played LoL for months. But it is something I don't want to do all the time, especially when there's a world to explore and things to do. Of course, part of what makes for enjoyable PvP for me is when there's something that makes it more balanced so both sides have a fair shot. An FPS will try to balance teams. LoL tried to build balanced teams. MMO Arenas have some sort of team balancing. GW2's WvWvW will have a matchmaking system. That helps a lot in making the experience enjoyable.
Did nobody tell you, that outside of EVE-Empire there is a rule called NBSI (not blue, shoot it)? Did nobody tell you, to get a guild, just fly with friends in such territories and fly much faster if facing a superior gang?
These guys did not gank you. They just followed the NBSI-rule, which is neccesary for surival in territorial pvp-warfare. Of course there are also NRDS areas (Not red, dont shoot). You should have tried these first or never left the Empire at all. Its big enough for PVE.
As long as there is a clear separation of huge safe PVE zones and OWPVP i cant see any griefing or ganking by definition. Thats why i say, that EVE should get rid of highsec-ganking, even if i myself was never stupid enough to get ganked in highsec.
BTW, i am not a fan of games like Darkfall or Mortal online, where you can attack everybody, everwhere (but inside cities). However I would play them. Because i prefer sandboxes over themeparks. But i tried them and i saw bad games, e.g the skillsystem of Darkfall which is simply unacceptable. I hope for DF 2.0 with a better system and hopefully some bigger safe zones.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
The main reason why i dont like Owpvp is gear/level difference. Pack hunting is almost a must in those games so thats another reason i usaly dont stick with em. It can be fun for a short while but it aint the pvp fix im looking for.
Aslong it's a optional feature then I like it, if it's forced then I rather play the already forced FPS pvp multiplayer games.
I loved the way it was in SWG where you could be covert or overt, so if you in the mood to take down some enemy guild you had that option, didn't feel like doing pvp again you had that option.
It's the optional feature's this genre use to provide, which is definitly missing so much with most of today's MMO's as most of them are far to much combat oriented that they seem so incredible limited compared to the way's of the old.
Also liked it in Fallen Earth because it "was" also optional, due to me enjoying crafting the best resources came from pvp area's. I liked the thrill of trying to get some of the best resources but also the challenge of making it out alive.
OWPvP looks good on paper. However, I find when you combine the anonymity of the internet with no rulesets or consequences in place (OWPvP), it tends to bring out the worst in people, not the best. Why on God's green earth would I find it "fun" in any way, shape, or form to get repeatedly killed by players I have no chance of defeating, aka gankers? May as well chain stun me to death. I have yet to find 1 person who thinks that getting ganked is any sort of "fun." Maybe some masochist somewhere...
No. For me, OWPvP is the killer in game design. Won't even go there.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
OWPVP is just gankfest.
Never any "real" consequenses for being a ganker, yet all consequenses and cons for being the ganked.
Who'd find that fun?
True, the more players are involved the less impact I can have on the outcome, but f the player limit stays fixed it leaves out beating your opponent with numbers. One more thing is that everyone in BGs or WvWvW will be there for PvP and nothing else. So atleast everyone you encounter are there to fight.
GW2's best bit will be the structured PvP. I can't take WvWvW seriously because of the non-skill factors.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky