Everything in GW2 has been done before in one guise or another.
never stopped WOW from being a success
Thats irrelevant, it's not the point, nor the question asked.
I never said this was a bad thing, nor anything new, i simply answered the question others want to skip around instead of answering.
It's a valid answer. The iPhone was made out of available parts. It wasn't scratch-built from the ground up. Pretty much was off-the-shelf.
And yet it is innovative.
WoW did nothing truly new. Everything in WoW had/has been done in other MMOs. In CRPGs. In MUDs. But it was an innovative MMO because it brought the best of the best into the game and polished it. And polished it again. And again. And they ended up with a mega-hit.
I think you might be confusing inventive with innovative maybe?
And no, it wasn't a valid answer, the question was about innovation, not relative success.
Im not denying that GW2 and WoW aren't successful games, im simply saying they aren't innovative.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
A huge, separate crafting bank for crafting only items.
Numerous, well placed portals allowing for short, medium or long distance travel for a small fee.
Auto level scaling.
Can play with a level 2 friend with a level 80 player.
Increased rewards/chance for rares fighting higher level enemies.
GRAPHICS - no released mmo compares
DIVINITY'S REACH - size, scale, layout, etc., etc., etc.
Combat - smooth, fast pace, active dodge & block (with equipped shield)
NO ROOTING - ALL ABILITIES CAN BE DONE ON THE FLY
XP for literally anything that you do in game.
Best crafting model among currently released AAA mmos.
NO SUB FEES!!!! (Oh wait I'm sorry original GW started that!)
Death of the TRINITY
Fight for life when downed!!!
shared resource nodes - funny to watch people mine on top of each other!
No patch downtime. Just log out and log back in when patch goes live.
Overflow server with instant transport to the main server when prompted with no loss of progress.
Many more innovations but you get the point. Bottom line is, like the original GW, this game is going to sell millions of boxes worldwide as blogs and word of mouth spread the news.
The overall solo experience. You can have all the benefits of solo play while auto grouping for the DEs. No need to feel anti social while trying to race to nodes or mobs to tag them first. No need to look for a group for most content. It is a much better social solo experience if you will.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
An example of a feature i consider innovative is TSW's Investigation Missions. Another possible idea for innovation would be a stealth based mmo.
But honestly, i guess at this point, when every themepark is based around leveling, questing, dungeon running, and the rest being side feature like pvp, crafting, etc, if the structure changes, it would be different enough to be innovative, at least IMO.
I was actually discussing this in the general Pub.
EDIT: Oh, and Planetside 2, if it hadn't been for the original game, would be very innovative coming out today.
You can clown all day long about what features, if any, are innovations. People will also play with semantics as well.
I think you should start a poll and ask a question like this: For those who are playing GW2, did GW2 change the way you play mmo's?
Or something like that. That's really proof is in the pudding, and means more than meaningless banter about features. Did it change change the way people play the game?
Originally posted by Wololo I guess its just as I thought then, GW2 didnt actually innovate anything, they just re-wrapped every feature from existing games that they found nice.
So in just 8 minutes you went "Oh, guess I am right, nothing changed. Yeah guys, suck it."
People should not be limited to a time limit to post. they post when they want. Yes, many things were re-used such as DaoC's RvR, Rifts DE, etc. The combat system, while still a bit chunky in making you feel you have to mash a button over and over for it to work, is quite an impressive feat but requires more adjustment for primary weapons.
They took things that gamers loved in many games and put them all together instead of nitpick just a few and add it. The best thing is they did this all under a price of $60. If you don't like the game as it is yet you bought it..well, shelve it, wait a while, then bring it back to your computer. Next thing you know you have updates, content, and changes for free rather then having to continueously pay a $15 charge to re-activate your account or such.
Nadia, I never said to compair this game to WoW. Ever.
Second, Leveling the content in a game to the character has been in since TES:Oblivion and Id venture to say even games before that.
ColdDog - Never said the system had to be in an MMORPG, just any game, which forced level scaling has been in. (Oblivion, Skyrim)
WvW has been implemented on WO but it was called RvR - and No, adding one more W does not make it an innovation, it makes it a re-packaged feature that another game had to innovate.
Except, for the genre the game resides in, that is an innovation.
You want "innovation" to be something that has never been done before, ever. Innovatoin doesnt' have to be that.
For instance, the first car had wheels, a motor and a carriage (literally) where one sat, and a way to steer. And no key.
Subsequent designs still had (have) wheels, a motor and a body (no longer a carriage) where one sits. And a key! Keys had been used before in daily life. But adding it to the automobile was an innovation. Changing how the wheels are constructed is an innovatin. Changing the body and how it is integrated in the construction of the vehicle (since orginally carraige makers made the body) was an innovation.
Guild Wars 2 does innovate. It might not bowl you over as ground breaking or new but it takes things that have been done in other games and adds them to its formula or even just takes it do a different level.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I plan on making a thread pretty soon titled "100 reasons that makes GW2 Unique" All though not everything may be completely new to the genre on the base level (though what in the world is?) the way they do it deffinately is. Anet basically said "ok what do people hate about MMOs?" and took those things out. and "What do people love about MMOs?" and vastly improved them. and yes, threw in a bunch of their own ideas. Where else have you ever seen 3 servers fighting each other 24/7 in a massive warzone? Where else have you seen an auction house system shared among every server? Where else have you been able to level in so many ways? Where else have you had SO many options of things you can do straight from level 1? etc.
If WoW was released today even in its' entirety it would be f2p in 3 months. Why is it still such a big deal?
A huge, separate crafting bank for crafting only items.
Numerous, well placed portals allowing for short, medium or long distance travel for a small fee.
Auto level scaling.
Can play with a level 80 friend at level 2 in PVE.
Increased rewards/chance for rares fighting higher level enemies.
GRAPHICS - no released mmo compares
DIVINITY'S REACH - size, scale, layout, etc., etc., etc.
Combat - smooth, fast pace, active dodge & block (with equipped shield)
NO ROOTING - ALL ABILITIES CAN BE DONE ON THE FLY
XP for literally anything that you do in game.
Best crafting model among currently released AAA mmos.
NO SUB FEES!!!! (Oh wait I'm sorry original GW started that!)
Death of the TRINITY
Fight for life when downed!!!
shared resource nodes - funny to watch people mine on top of each other!
No patch downtime. Just log out and log back in when patch goes live.
Overflow server with instant transport to the main server when prompted with no loss of progress.
Many more innovations but you get the point. Bottom line is, like the original GW, this game is going to sell millions of boxes worldwide as blogs and word of mouth spread the news.
Skillset dependent on equipment in use.
Water as a content-filled explorable environment
Importing GW1 rewards to complement GW2 reward/achievement system
Reducing the need for extensive bag space through salvage system and direct-to-bank collectibles
Explorer/completionist content that incorporates achievements (zone completion) and specific gameplay (reaching vistas)
Game design that supports how people play their alts via
account-based achievement system
account-based storage
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Nadia, I never said to compair this game to WoW. Ever.
Second, Leveling the content in a game to the character has been in since TES:Oblivion and Id venture to say even games before that.
ColdDog - Never said the system had to be in an MMORPG, just any game, which forced level scaling has been in. (Oblivion, Skyrim)
WvW has been implemented on WO but it was called RvR - and No, adding one more W does not make it an innovation, it makes it a re-packaged feature that another game had to innovate.
Except, for the genre the game resides in, that is an innovation.
You want "innovation" to be something that has never been done before, ever. Innovatoin doesnt' have to be that.
For instance, the first car had wheels, a motor and a carriage (literally) where one sat, and a way to steer. And no key.
Subsequent designs still had (have) wheels, a motor and a body (no longer a carriage) where one sits. And a key! Keys had been used before in daily life. But adding it to the automobile was an innovation. Changing how the wheels are constructed is an innovatin. Changing the body and how it is integrated in the construction of the vehicle (since orginally carraige makers made the body) was an innovation.
Guild Wars 2 does innovate. It might not bowl you over as ground breaking or new but it takes things that have been done in other games and adds them to its formula or even just takes it do a different level.
Agreed.
To Innovate, while most people believe is to just make something new, also means to change and/or improve upon something already established. Anet took a lot of systems they felt were good in most games, nicely tweaked them and gave us a new way of looking at things. And on most things I think they succeeded.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Every single game ever created, only exists because of the accomplishments of previous creations. The game development industry is essentially one huge, disorganized, collaborative entity. New games build on the accomplishments of old games, and seek to improve their shortcomings.
So it really doesn't matter if a game is "first" with a feature. All that matters is that it is able to take what others in the industry have created and build upon that to create a wonderful, unique, work of art.
DAoC had difficulty scaling in task dungeons, while it's not the same thing, it's arguably similar.
SWTOR had bolstering in pvp instances which again is similar.
There are other games which have had similar systems as well, but they escape me at the moment.
Also EQ2 Had Level Scaling with Dungeons starting from the Shadow Odyssey expansion in 2008. Dungeons introduced scaled to groups from level 50 to 90, so GW2 has not innovated that either.
**EDIT** EQ2 also had the ability for YOU to scale to any content by your own control through mentoring since DAY 1. in 2004.
A huge, separate crafting bank for crafting only items.
Numerous, well placed portals allowing for short, medium or long distance travel for a small fee.
Auto level scaling. Only downnward scaling
Can play with a level 80 friend at level 2 in PVE. But only effective in a lvl2 zone
Increased rewards/chance for rares fighting higher level enemies.
GRAPHICS - no released mmo compares Tough a differerent style TSW comes close.
DIVINITY'S REACH - size, scale, layout, etc., etc., etc.
Combat - smooth, fast pace, active dodge & block (with equipped shield)
NO ROOTING - ALL ABILITIES CAN BE DONE ON THE FLY
XP for literally anything that you do in game.
Best crafting model among currently released AAA mmos. Still think Vanguard was better
NO SUB FEES!!!! (Oh wait I'm sorry original GW started that!) But then i will be spending equall amounts at account updates through the gemstore.
Death of the TRINITY
Fight for life when downed!!!
shared resource nodes - funny to watch people mine on top of each other!
No patch downtime. Just log out and log back in when patch goes live.
Overflow server with instant transport to the main server when prompted with no loss of progress. Which sadly works counter productive. Multiple instances of these zones per server would have worked better as it would allow grouping at all times.
Many more innovations but you get the point. Bottom line is, like the original GW, this game is going to sell millions of boxes worldwide as blogs and word of mouth spread the news.
Skillset dependent on equipment in use.
Water as a content-filled explorable environment
Importing GW1 rewards to complement GW2 reward/achievement system
Reducing the need for extensive bag space through salvage system and direct-to-bank collectibles
Explorer/completionist content that incorporates achievements (zone completion) and specific gameplay (reaching vistas)
Game design that supports how people play their alts via
account-based achievement system
account-based storage
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by Wololo Originally posted by Zinzan Originally posted by Nadia Originally posted by Zinzan Everything in GW2 has been done before in one guise or another.
never stopped WOW from being a successThats irrelevant, it's not the point, nor the question asked.I never said this was a bad thing, nor anything new, i simply answered the question others want to skip around instead of answering.Thanks Zinzan~ You Truly did answer the question correctly from what I have been able to gather. ahhh... So there IS a right answer the OP was looking to validate, not a fact finding post like he tried present.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
A huge, separate crafting bank for crafting only items.
Numerous, well placed portals allowing for short, medium or long distance travel for a small fee.
Auto level scaling. Only downnward scaling
Can play with a level 80 friend at level 2 in PVE. But only effective in a lvl2 zone
Increased rewards/chance for rares fighting higher level enemies.
GRAPHICS - no released mmo compares Tough a differerent style TSW comes close.
DIVINITY'S REACH - size, scale, layout, etc., etc., etc.
Combat - smooth, fast pace, active dodge & block (with equipped shield)
NO ROOTING - ALL ABILITIES CAN BE DONE ON THE FLY
XP for literally anything that you do in game.
Best crafting model among currently released AAA mmos. Still think Vanguard was better
NO SUB FEES!!!! (Oh wait I'm sorry original GW started that!) But then i will be spending equall amounts at account updates through the gemstore.
Death of the TRINITY
Fight for life when downed!!!
shared resource nodes - funny to watch people mine on top of each other!
No patch downtime. Just log out and log back in when patch goes live.
Overflow server with instant transport to the main server when prompted with no loss of progress. Which sadly works counter productive. Multiple instances of these zones per server would have worked better as it would allow grouping at all times.
Many more innovations but you get the point. Bottom line is, like the original GW, this game is going to sell millions of boxes worldwide as blogs and word of mouth spread the news.
Skillset dependent on equipment in use.
Water as a content-filled explorable environment WoW introduced this in cataclysm with Vashj'ir
Importing GW1 rewards to complement GW2 reward/achievement system EQ2 introduced this with conjoined rewards from EQ1 for veterans.
Reducing the need for extensive bag space through salvage system and direct-to-bank collectibles EQ2 also with this by having collectibles have their own windows separate from your bag.
Explorer/completionist content that incorporates achievements (zone completion) World of Warcraft Explorer achievement for discovering and many other achievements for completing zones. and specific gameplay (reaching vistas)
Game design that supports how people play their alts via
A huge, separate crafting bank for crafting only items.
Numerous, well placed portals allowing for short, medium or long distance travel for a small fee.
Auto level scaling. Only downnward scaling
Can play with a level 80 friend at level 2 in PVE. But only effective in a lvl2 zone
Increased rewards/chance for rares fighting higher level enemies.
GRAPHICS - no released mmo compares Tough a differerent style TSW comes close.
DIVINITY'S REACH - size, scale, layout, etc., etc., etc.
Combat - smooth, fast pace, active dodge & block (with equipped shield)
NO ROOTING - ALL ABILITIES CAN BE DONE ON THE FLY
XP for literally anything that you do in game.
Best crafting model among currently released AAA mmos. Still think Vanguard was better
NO SUB FEES!!!! (Oh wait I'm sorry original GW started that!) But then i will be spending equall amounts at account updates through the gemstore.
Death of the TRINITY
Fight for life when downed!!!
shared resource nodes - funny to watch people mine on top of each other!
No patch downtime. Just log out and log back in when patch goes live.
Overflow server with instant transport to the main server when prompted with no loss of progress. Which sadly works counter productive. Multiple instances of these zones per server would have worked better as it would allow grouping at all times.
Many more innovations but you get the point. Bottom line is, like the original GW, this game is going to sell millions of boxes worldwide as blogs and word of mouth spread the news.
Skillset dependent on equipment in use.
Water as a content-filled explorable environment WoW introduced this in cataclysm with Vashj'ir Water as done in DAOC
Importing GW1 rewards to complement GW2 reward/achievement system EQ2 introduced this with conjoined rewards from EQ1 for veterans.
Reducing the need for extensive bag space through salvage system and direct-to-bank collectibles EQ2 also with this by having collectibles have their own windows separate from your bag.
Explorer/completionist content that incorporates achievements (zone completion) World of Warcraft Explorer achievement for discovering and many other achievements for completing zones. and specific gameplay (reaching vistas)
Game design that supports how people play their alts via
Not a lot at all, The mention of Auto Scaling to content is a negative not an innovation. It removes any real requirement for level or spending time to properley develop your charachter.
So much for real MMO concepts or Longevity , Community and Gameplay this game offers little if nothing new, worth the sub for a months worth of rattling around but after that can't see anything to keep me here.
Enjoying playing a MUD more at the moment which does not say much games are all pretty cheap so thats not really the issue here gameplay is.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Comments
DAoC had difficulty scaling in task dungeons, while it's not the same thing, it's arguably similar.
SWTOR had bolstering in pvp instances which again is similar.
There are other games which have had similar systems as well, but they escape me at the moment.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
i mention WOW because WOW has been claimed to innovate; when it brought nothing new to mmos
Innovation lessons from Blizzard Entertainment
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/game-43590-blizzard-innovation.html
the Ops definition of innovation is his alone
not everyone will agree what innovation means
EQ2 fan sites
I think you might be confusing inventive with innovative maybe?
And no, it wasn't a valid answer, the question was about innovation, not relative success.
Im not denying that GW2 and WoW aren't successful games, im simply saying they aren't innovative.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Now thats a well made point, i'll conceed this as you are indeed correct.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
What did GW2 innovate? Well for starters:
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
An example of a feature i consider innovative is TSW's Investigation Missions. Another possible idea for innovation would be a stealth based mmo.
But honestly, i guess at this point, when every themepark is based around leveling, questing, dungeon running, and the rest being side feature like pvp, crafting, etc, if the structure changes, it would be different enough to be innovative, at least IMO.
I was actually discussing this in the general Pub.
EDIT: Oh, and Planetside 2, if it hadn't been for the original game, would be very innovative coming out today.
You can clown all day long about what features, if any, are innovations. People will also play with semantics as well.
I think you should start a poll and ask a question like this: For those who are playing GW2, did GW2 change the way you play mmo's?
Or something like that. That's really proof is in the pudding, and means more than meaningless banter about features. Did it change change the way people play the game?
So in just 8 minutes you went "Oh, guess I am right, nothing changed. Yeah guys, suck it."
People should not be limited to a time limit to post. they post when they want. Yes, many things were re-used such as DaoC's RvR, Rifts DE, etc. The combat system, while still a bit chunky in making you feel you have to mash a button over and over for it to work, is quite an impressive feat but requires more adjustment for primary weapons.
They took things that gamers loved in many games and put them all together instead of nitpick just a few and add it. The best thing is they did this all under a price of $60. If you don't like the game as it is yet you bought it..well, shelve it, wait a while, then bring it back to your computer. Next thing you know you have updates, content, and changes for free rather then having to continueously pay a $15 charge to re-activate your account or such.
Except, for the genre the game resides in, that is an innovation.
You want "innovation" to be something that has never been done before, ever. Innovatoin doesnt' have to be that.
For instance, the first car had wheels, a motor and a carriage (literally) where one sat, and a way to steer. And no key.
Subsequent designs still had (have) wheels, a motor and a body (no longer a carriage) where one sits. And a key! Keys had been used before in daily life. But adding it to the automobile was an innovation. Changing how the wheels are constructed is an innovatin. Changing the body and how it is integrated in the construction of the vehicle (since orginally carraige makers made the body) was an innovation.
Guild Wars 2 does innovate. It might not bowl you over as ground breaking or new but it takes things that have been done in other games and adds them to its formula or even just takes it do a different level.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If WoW was released today even in its' entirety it would be f2p in 3 months.
Why is it still such a big deal?
GW2 is an evolution, in very much the right direction for themeparks.
That's the only statement I have ever made in this respect and the only one I feel the need to ever support.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Agreed.
To Innovate, while most people believe is to just make something new, also means to change and/or improve upon something already established. Anet took a lot of systems they felt were good in most games, nicely tweaked them and gave us a new way of looking at things. And on most things I think they succeeded.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Honest Answer - It doesn't matter.
Every single game ever created, only exists because of the accomplishments of previous creations. The game development industry is essentially one huge, disorganized, collaborative entity. New games build on the accomplishments of old games, and seek to improve their shortcomings.
So it really doesn't matter if a game is "first" with a feature. All that matters is that it is able to take what others in the industry have created and build upon that to create a wonderful, unique, work of art.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
They innovated:
- The way groups work (breaking the dd/tank/healer-scheme)
- The way quests work with renown hearts (doing things in the area instead of accepting/completing)
- The way tab-targeting-combat works (evasion, no need to click an enemy to hit him)
- The way you choose your playstyle (1-5 weapons, 6 healing, 7-9 utility, 10 elite)
- PvE-Scaling in MMORPGs (the more players, the harder the boss and your lvl gets scaled down to where you are)
That would be the major things.
Also EQ2 Had Level Scaling with Dungeons starting from the Shadow Odyssey expansion in 2008. Dungeons introduced scaled to groups from level 50 to 90, so GW2 has not innovated that either.
**EDIT** EQ2 also had the ability for YOU to scale to any content by your own control through mentoring since DAY 1. in 2004.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Thats irrelevant, it's not the point, nor the question asked. I never said this was a bad thing, nor anything new, i simply answered the question others want to skip around instead of answering.
Thanks Zinzan~ You Truly did answer the question correctly from what I have been able to gather.
ahhh... So there IS a right answer the OP was looking to validate, not a fact finding post like he tried present.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
THIS.
/99 chars xD
Not a lot at all, The mention of Auto Scaling to content is a negative not an innovation. It removes any real requirement for level or spending time to properley develop your charachter.
So much for real MMO concepts or Longevity , Community and Gameplay this game offers little if nothing new, worth the sub for a months worth of rattling around but after that can't see anything to keep me here.
Enjoying playing a MUD more at the moment which does not say much games are all pretty cheap so thats not really the issue here gameplay is.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel