Originally posted by GeezerGamerHow much more spin can this get? B2P is the future of the genre. There is no need for subs. $15/mo is a rip off and is not needed. Then the excuses come out when something goes wrong and the player gets screwed we are told we have to understand because there is no sub?Either B2P can maintain AAA quality service or it can't. Heralding B2P as the savior of the revenue models in MMOs and then turning around and saying you get what you pay for isn't going to prove anything.Gotta love these situational standards.
What a limited memory some players seem to have.
A few servers allegedly get rolled back a few minutes (or so some claim, although i can't confirm this as personally I didn't experience this) and it's the end of the world, B2P sucks and subs is once again the only model that works.
Your beloved WoW has rolled back how many times? I lose count but i fondly remember the massive roll back about 6 months in to correct a dupe exploit, everyone got screwed over for that one and no-one got reimbursed. DAoC was rolled back umpteen times, Rift, Aion, SWG, SWTOR, DDO, LOTRO, DF, MO, PS, AoC, GW, EvE, FE...christ i could go on, i can't think of a single mmorpg that hasn't been rolled back at one time or another for one reason or another and no-one ever gets any of that progress back regardless of the payment model.
For someone claiming others are putting "spin" on this, you really need to consider your own comment as you are doing precisely the same thing, distorting facts and conjecture to suit your own agenda.
I don't agree with people using the excuse that because a game has no subs fee the devs can be let off, because thats not the case, they have a responsibility to their customers equal to any subs based game. But this doesn't excuse or justify your post.
You are right about the rollbacks. I remember the time when a small number of players in Rift got rolled back 5 hrs prior to a patch release. But you are incorrect about not getting it back. Players who were affected were instructed to submit a petition and the issue was corrected.
So, then all GW2 players should have to do is submit a ticket and ANet will be right on top of things and set it straight.
Your example for WoW, was a failure on Blizzard's part. A big blunder. But it's not a customer support issue.
So from the sound of it I take it that the server itself does regular backups, which is the point at which all character data gets saved. Anything not yet saved then is left in some interim state on the server, even after client logging, until that timer goes off. So if the server crashes between the timer or shortly before it, I guess people can lose things done in that time?
Otherwise it's because people are playing on more populated servers and they are overloading it to the point that it's taking almost an hour to backup data from characters, which coupled with live play is crippling and crashing them. In which case Anet either needs to get larger/more stable servers or get less popular.
Might be some other reason, but those feel like the most likely candidates. Either way , sucks to yer asthmar(or loss of data) and hope you still enjoy the game or the next game you intend to play.
EDIT: And Tardcore. That really doesn't look like Aero telling anyone how to think, just what they think of how others think. And Aero thinks some are way overreacting. Point in case I guess.
This is the question you know they won't answer, but it's indicative of some greater problem, regardless...
1. Are the servers or is the server tech just "old"?
2. Did some guy "who works in the game industry" kick a plug? Did one of the hamsters turning the wheels to power the server die? Did someone wire it to a light switch?
3. Is there internal sabotage/corruption? Are alleged hacking attempts actually accessing/modifying game data? Did they intentionally cut power to stop a security breach?
4. Is Jesus back, upset with GW2's hyped reputation as savior?
As someone else said I also have experienced a rollback (or several in some cases) in every mmo I have played overthe past 13 years (except Aion!). So should I assume blizzard, mythic, soe and bioware all use old tech?
It sucks and they need to do whatever they can to improve infrastructure but it's not like Anet invented the unintended rollback - lol!
All the guys saying "they can't do that, they are unable to do that, they lack the infrastructure", etc.
Please keep in mind that they hold the files and they have the tools. They can do anything to any char at any time, period. They just won't dedicate the resources, don't want to do it or don't have time, but they absolutely CAN do whatever to your char. They, and any company for that matter.
I ve been working for the gaming industry and I have seen it with my own eyes.
-Sorry, we messed it up but we think your case is not worth alocating any resource to it.
Can we just be a bit less naive?
Really? Ok, then just list ONE inconsistency.
I honestly think you are just trolling now.
That's one souce reps admit they "can't". There are others. On twitter they specifically reply they can't for this particular instance of lost data.
I know they can "give a toon" anything. The "issue" is, "can they give back a toon specifically what they lost so there is no discrepancy". If you've paid attention, the answer is no.
I'm not naive.
I don't believe you've "worked in game development". "Working in the game industry" can mean as a janitor, or cafe food service, or a CEO's chauffer, and that wouldn't help your point.
They do not have a "lack of want or need" to assist those submitting tickets. They simply can't help.
Of course the company guys are going to say "we can't". What are they going to say, " we won't"? "We don't want to?". Please...
They can do anything to any toon period, and that's all. If so, they can give any toon specifically anything, period. You are contradicting yourself. What the hell, I can do that with less than 1% of their technology on my computer on Skyrim.
You may not be, but you do sound naive if you use the company's posts to justify the company's excuses.
I am not going to give you my professional CV details, but I ll just say I had access to the internal test servers and the QA guys sitting right next to me. And the company was very big, one of the biggest. You can believe it or not, I couldn't care less.
And btw, you failed to list one single inconsistency.
So from the sound of it I take it that the server itself does regular backups, which is the point at which all character data gets saved. Anything not yet saved then is left in some interim state on the server, even after client logging, until that timer goes off. So if the server crashes between the timer or shortly before it, I guess people can lose things done in that time?
Otherwise it's because people are playing on more populated servers and they are overloading it to the point that it's taking almost an hour to backup data from characters, which coupled with live play is crippling and crashing them. In which case Anet either needs to get larger/more stable servers or get less popular.
Might be some other reason, but those feel like the most likely candidates. Either way , sucks to yer asthmar(or loss of data) and hope you still enjoy the game or the next game you intend to play.
EDIT: And Tardcore. That really doesn't look like Aero telling anyone how to think, just what they think of how others think. And Aero thinks some are way overreacting. Point in case I guess.
Sorry but bullshit. I'm fine if she thinks it isn't a big deal, but telling everyone this stuff is just going to happen and they are overreacting because it isn't a big deal to HER, steps over the line as it isn't her stuff, her time, or her account. [mod edit]
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
So from the sound of it I take it that the server itself does regular backups, which is the point at which all character data gets saved. Anything not yet saved then is left in some interim state on the server, even after client logging, until that timer goes off. So if the server crashes between the timer or shortly before it, I guess people can lose things done in that time?
Otherwise it's because people are playing on more populated servers and they are overloading it to the point that it's taking almost an hour to backup data from characters, which coupled with live play is crippling and crashing them. In which case Anet either needs to get larger/more stable servers or get less popular.
Might be some other reason, but those feel like the most likely candidates. Either way , sucks to yer asthmar(or loss of data) and hope you still enjoy the game or the next game you intend to play.
EDIT: And Tardcore. That really doesn't look like Aero telling anyone how to think, just what they think of how others think. And Aero thinks some are way overreacting. Point in case I guess.
This is the question you know they won't answer, but it's indicative of some greater problem, regardless...
1. Are the servers or is the server tech just "old"?
2. Did some guy "who works in the game industry" kick a plug? Did one of the hamsters turning the wheels to power the server die? Did someone wire it to a light switch?
3. Is there internal sabotage/corruption? Are alleged hacking attempts actually accessing/modifying game data? Did they intentionally cut power to stop a security breach?
4. Is Jesus back, upset with GW2's hyped reputation as savior?
As someone else said I also have experienced a rollback (or several in some cases) in every mmo I have played overthe past 13 years (except Aion!). So should I assume blizzard, mythic, soe and bioware all use old tech?
It sucks and they need to do whatever they can to improve infrastructure but it's not like Anet invented the unintended rollback - lol!
True but they are apperently a company that don't have a method in place to prevent them, or fix the issue for players when they happen.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
It's never just a matter of having the tools to give people what they want. Aside from that not every game made actually grants the capacity to do that. It depends on how things were made. It's actually an important problem in games because it frequently affects the developer's capacity to extend the game longterm.
For example the commentary Gearbox had a while back about the limitations they had in creating DLC for the first Borderlands. There was too much about the game that they couldn't change or add things to, it was just not built for it.
Now the issue here is far more likely that the devs need to be able to verify and trust that wha they are reimbursing actually happaned. When there's a loss of data, the devs can't confirm what was lost and have to take word of mouth on the state things were in.
Add to that the issue that unless they reimburse everyone and set all characters back to the state they were in, they will be causing an imbalance, and there is another problem to address.
All in all, yes, they might be able to manipulate the character in many ways, but that's far from being the right thing to do when there's too much left unaccounted for. What they need to implement first is a means to verify lost data. A snapshot of the data dumped when a crash happened, anything that they can use as a reference to the claims people might be making so they can give people the things they actually lost rather than the things they claim they lost.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
So from the sound of it I take it that the server itself does regular backups, which is the point at which all character data gets saved. Anything not yet saved then is left in some interim state on the server, even after client logging, until that timer goes off. So if the server crashes between the timer or shortly before it, I guess people can lose things done in that time?
Otherwise it's because people are playing on more populated servers and they are overloading it to the point that it's taking almost an hour to backup data from characters, which coupled with live play is crippling and crashing them. In which case Anet either needs to get larger/more stable servers or get less popular.
Might be some other reason, but those feel like the most likely candidates. Either way , sucks to yer asthmar(or loss of data) and hope you still enjoy the game or the next game you intend to play.
EDIT: And Tardcore. That really doesn't look like Aero telling anyone how to think, just what they think of how others think. And Aero thinks some are way overreacting. Point in case I guess.
This is the question you know they won't answer, but it's indicative of some greater problem, regardless...
1. Are the servers or is the server tech just "old"?
2. Did some guy "who works in the game industry" kick a plug? Did one of the hamsters turning the wheels to power the server die? Did someone wire it to a light switch?
3. Is there internal sabotage/corruption? Are alleged hacking attempts actually accessing/modifying game data? Did they intentionally cut power to stop a security breach?
4. Is Jesus back, upset with GW2's hyped reputation as savior?
As someone else said I also have experienced a rollback (or several in some cases) in every mmo I have played overthe past 13 years (except Aion!). So should I assume blizzard, mythic, soe and bioware all use old tech?
It sucks and they need to do whatever they can to improve infrastructure but it's not like Anet invented the unintended rollback - lol!
True but they are apperently a company that don't have a method in place to prevent them, or fix the issue for players when they happen.
They have ways to prevent it. All mmorpgs have hardware and systems in place to prevent this kind of thing from happening. But even that is never going to work 100% of the time. Also in WoW and FFXI and FFXIV and WAR I got hit with rollbacks and they could not replace my lost items or experience. I know they can now but not when it happened the first few times. Don't get me wrong it sucks when it happens but you seem to be suggesting that Anet is only one incapable of handling this issue.
All the guys saying "they can't do that, they are unable to do that, they lack the infrastructure", etc.
Please keep in mind that they hold the files and they have the tools. They can do anything to any char at any time, period. They just won't dedicate the resources, don't want to do it or don't have time, but they absolutely CAN do whatever to your char. They, and any company for that matter.
I ve been working for the gaming industry and I have seen it with my own eyes.
-Sorry, we messed it up but we think your case is not worth alocating any resource to it.
Can we just be a bit less naive?
Really? Ok, then just list ONE inconsistency.
I honestly think you are just trolling now.
That's one souce reps admit they "can't". There are others. On twitter they specifically reply they can't for this particular instance of lost data.
I know they can "give a toon" anything. The "issue" is, "can they give back a toon specifically what they lost so there is no discrepancy". If you've paid attention, the answer is no.
I'm not naive.
I don't believe you've "worked in game development". "Working in the game industry" can mean as a janitor, or cafe food service, or a CEO's chauffer, and that wouldn't help your point.
They do not have a "lack of want or need" to assist those submitting tickets. They simply can't help.
Of course the company guys are going to say "we can't". What are they going to say, " we won't"? "We don't want to?". Please...
They can do anything to any toon period, and that's all. If so, they can give any toon specifically anything, period. You are contradicting yourself. What the hell, I can do that with less than 1% of their technology on my computer on Skyrim.
You may not be, but you do sound naive if you use the company's posts to justify the company's excuses.
I am not going to give you my professional CV details, but I ll just say I had access to the internal test servers and the QA guys sitting right next to me. And the company was very big, one of the biggest. You can believe it or not, I couldn't care less.
And btw, you failed to list one single inconsistency.
Do you have the GM client? No? Then you do not know what they can and can not do with your characters. Anet devs might be able to but handling GM tickets and restoring lost items is not a Dev thing it's an in game support thing.
Sorry but bullshit. I'm fine if she thinks it isn't a big deal, but telling everyone this stuff is just going to happen and they are overreacting because it isn't a big deal to HER, steps over the line as it isn't her stuff, her time, or her account.[mod edit]
Neither I nor Aero said it wasn't a big deal. Aero said it was inevitable. Not inevitable for everyone, but given differences between clients and servers, someone somewhere was going to be having a bad day with any new game. It indeed will always suck when something happens we don't like.
But it's also very much the case that those complaining, especially here, really are doing nothing but complaining. It does not serve any purpose to post the problems one has in a game here unless the Devs are known to use this place as a means to player feedback. When they have their own forum, wiki, and report system, they are not particularly likely to be culling data from a site like this particularly often.
So then why are people complaining on a forum like this? Because as Aero said, that's pretty much what it's for. Especially the case here, if you look at pretty much any game that people talk about here it seems to be the driving force to create a thread that either reveres the game or damns it for one reason or another. You get the occasional middle of the road conversation from some posts and people, but it's not the norm.
Aside from that. We do need to maintain perspective on problems. Like I said, losing stuff in a game does indeed suck. It may be a harsh enough experience to make even me stop playing a game if I spent a good chunck of time attaining something I deem valuable. And I may rant about it, but I'm not going to chant it to the world, because the world doesn;t need to hear about my problems. Especially if it's a first world problem.
I know, it's cheap and a bit of a copout to say that. But fact is, it is what it is. We are talking about games. We are playing games. We are discussing the merits and issues with games. We are already in a state of luxury on the matter, especially given we are talking about new and recent games most of the time, meaning we had the means to go out and waste our time and money on these endeavors in the first place.
So we do need to place the priority of the games in perspective, not only to the state of the game and how the devs might be able to handle it, but to ourselves. Is there nothing more important in one's personal part of the world at this time to do than to whine about losing an hour of progress in an MMO?
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
You may not be aware, but spawning gold and handing it out like cupcakes — even if “basic MMO functionality” — isn’t good for a game’s economy. If you lose a dollar, the government doesn’t print up and hand you another one — that would cause huge inflation.
But your insurance company may, or even the bank. Just pointing out a stupid argument there.
So from the sound of it I take it that the server itself does regular backups, which is the point at which all character data gets saved. Anything not yet saved then is left in some interim state on the server, even after client logging, until that timer goes off. So if the server crashes between the timer or shortly before it, I guess people can lose things done in that time?
Otherwise it's because people are playing on more populated servers and they are overloading it to the point that it's taking almost an hour to backup data from characters, which coupled with live play is crippling and crashing them. In which case Anet either needs to get larger/more stable servers or get less popular.
Might be some other reason, but those feel like the most likely candidates. Either way , sucks to yer asthmar(or loss of data) and hope you still enjoy the game or the next game you intend to play.
EDIT: And Tardcore. That really doesn't look like Aero telling anyone how to think, just what they think of how others think. And Aero thinks some are way overreacting. Point in case I guess.
This is the question you know they won't answer, but it's indicative of some greater problem, regardless...
1. Are the servers or is the server tech just "old"?
2. Did some guy "who works in the game industry" kick a plug? Did one of the hamsters turning the wheels to power the server die? Did someone wire it to a light switch?
3. Is there internal sabotage/corruption? Are alleged hacking attempts actually accessing/modifying game data? Did they intentionally cut power to stop a security breach?
4. Is Jesus back, upset with GW2's hyped reputation as savior?
As someone else said I also have experienced a rollback (or several in some cases) in every mmo I have played overthe past 13 years (except Aion!). So should I assume blizzard, mythic, soe and bioware all use old tech?
It sucks and they need to do whatever they can to improve infrastructure but it's not like Anet invented the unintended rollback - lol!
True but they are apperently a company that don't have a method in place to prevent them, or fix the issue for players when they happen.
They have ways to prevent it. All mmorpgs have hardware and systems in place to prevent this kind of thing from happening. But even that is never going to work 100% of the time. Also in WoW and FFXI and FFXIV and WAR I got hit with rollbacks and they could not replace my lost items or experience. I know they can now but not when it happened the first few times. Don't get me wrong it sucks when it happens but you seem to be suggesting that Anet is only one incapable of handling this issue.
Two reasons for that, one I've never experienced a roll back, or remember anyone i know complaining about them in the other games you mention so from a personal standpoint I've never experienced them (could just be I've been very lucky). I have however experienced more than a few server crashes yet never lost any character data.
And reason two: A-net mentioned in the case of hacked accounts that they will be eventually implementing a rollback feature to restore characters that get hacked. I'm just curious that when other games out there have these features, why A-net didn't have them in at launch (or DO they but this time for some reason they didn't work).
And also (yeah sorry THREE reasons) as I stated earlier in the thread, the only official info we've gotten about these roll back is that A-net will not be able to replace anything lost. We've yet to hear why this happend, and more importantly if it happens again, in a more wide spread and devistating way, ARE there any stop gap features in place NOW to prevent this, or at least fix it if it does.
So sorry if it sounds like I'm saying A-net can't but its because currently I actually don't know if they can or not. Current evidence suggests not.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Originally posted by Xzen Originally posted by TardcoreOriginally posted by BrizlynOriginally posted by Kaelano1Originally posted by DeivosSo from the sound of it I take it that the server itself does regular backups, which is the point at which all character data gets saved. Anything not yet saved then is left in some interim state on the server, even after client logging, until that timer goes off. So if the server crashes between the timer or shortly before it, I guess people can lose things done in that time?Otherwise it's because people are playing on more populated servers and they are overloading it to the point that it's taking almost an hour to backup data from characters, which coupled with live play is crippling and crashing them. In which case Anet either needs to get larger/more stable servers or get less popular.Might be some other reason, but those feel like the most likely candidates. Either way , sucks to yer asthmar(or loss of data) and hope you still enjoy the game or the next game you intend to play.EDIT: And Tardcore. That really doesn't look like Aero telling anyone how to think, just what they think of how others think. And Aero thinks some are way overreacting. Point in case I guess.
This is the question you know they won't answer, but it's indicative of some greater problem, regardless...1. Are the servers or is the server tech just "old"?2. Did some guy "who works in the game industry" kick a plug? Did one of the hamsters turning the wheels to power the server die? Did someone wire it to a light switch?3. Is there internal sabotage/corruption? Are alleged hacking attempts actually accessing/modifying game data? Did they intentionally cut power to stop a security breach?4. Is Jesus back, upset with GW2's hyped reputation as savior? As someone else said I also have experienced a rollback (or several in some cases) in every mmo I have played overthe past 13 years (except Aion!). So should I assume blizzard, mythic, soe and bioware all use old tech? It sucks and they need to do whatever they can to improve infrastructure but it's not like Anet invented the unintended rollback - lol! True but they are apperently a company that don't have a method in place to prevent them, or fix the issue for players when they happen. They have ways to prevent it. All mmorpgs have hardware and systems in place to prevent this kind of thing from happening. But even that is never going to work 100% of the time. Also in WoW and FFXI and FFXIV and WAR I got hit with rollbacks and they could not replace my lost items or experience. I know they can now but not when it happened the first few times. Don't get me wrong it sucks when it happens but you seem to be suggesting that Anet is only one incapable of handling this issue.
It seems there are examples on both sides of the argument to support individual poster's claims. But after all is said and done. ArenaNet is not correcting problems their game causes. Other companies do, or at least will try to.
You may not be aware, but spawning gold and handing it out like cupcakes — even if “basic MMO functionality” — isn’t good for a game’s economy. If you lose a dollar, the government doesn’t print up and hand you another one — that would cause huge inflation.
But your insurance company may, or even the bank. Just pointing out a stupid argument there.
They don't print money. They are handing you reserves. Nothing new being introduced in either case.
Compare that to the first comment, government printing money (or in this case the devs adding money, items, or xp), and new things are being introduced.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
All the guys saying "they can't do that, they are unable to do that, they lack the infrastructure", etc.
Please keep in mind that they hold the files and they have the tools. They can do anything to any char at any time, period. They just won't dedicate the resources, don't want to do it or don't have time, but they absolutely CAN do whatever to your char. They, and any company for that matter.
I ve been working for the gaming industry and I have seen it with my own eyes.
-Sorry, we messed it up but we think your case is not worth alocating any resource to it.
Can we just be a bit less naive?
Really? Ok, then just list ONE inconsistency.
I honestly think you are just trolling now.
That's one souce reps admit they "can't". There are others. On twitter they specifically reply they can't for this particular instance of lost data.
I know they can "give a toon" anything. The "issue" is, "can they give back a toon specifically what they lost so there is no discrepancy". If you've paid attention, the answer is no.
I'm not naive.
I don't believe you've "worked in game development". "Working in the game industry" can mean as a janitor, or cafe food service, or a CEO's chauffer, and that wouldn't help your point.
They do not have a "lack of want or need" to assist those submitting tickets. They simply can't help.
Of course the company guys are going to say "we can't". What are they going to say, " we won't"? "We don't want to?". Please...
They can do anything to any toon period, and that's all. If so, they can give any toon specifically anything, period. You are contradicting yourself. What the hell, I can do that with less than 1% of their technology on my computer on Skyrim.
You may not be, but you do sound naive if you use the company's posts to justify the company's excuses.
I am not going to give you my professional CV details, but I ll just say I had access to the internal test servers and the QA guys sitting right next to me. And the company was very big, one of the biggest. You can believe it or not, I couldn't care less.
And btw, you failed to list one single inconsistency.
Do you have the GM client? No? Then you do not know what they can and can not do with your characters. Anet devs might be able to but handling GM tickets and restoring lost items is not a Dev thing it's an in game support thing.
Tell me, do they level all their characters in any internal testing that they may do?
You may not be aware, but spawning gold and handing it out like cupcakes — even if “basic MMO functionality” — isn’t good for a game’s economy. If you lose a dollar, the government doesn’t print up and hand you another one — that would cause huge inflation.
But your insurance company may, or even the bank. Just pointing out a stupid argument there.
wait when i lose a dollar does bank give me another one? :P
You may not be aware, but spawning gold and handing it out like cupcakes — even if “basic MMO functionality” — isn’t good for a game’s economy. If you lose a dollar, the government doesn’t print up and hand you another one — that would cause huge inflation.
But your insurance company may, or even the bank. Just pointing out a stupid argument there.
wait when i lose a dollar does bank give me another one? :P
LOL. No but when your bank loses one of YOUR dollars they usually do.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Originally posted by saurus123 Originally posted by OrphesOriginally posted by Nadia You may not be aware, but spawning gold and handing it out like cupcakes even if basic MMO functionality isnt good for a games economy. If you lose a dollar, the government doesnt print up and hand you another one that would cause huge inflation.
But your insurance company may, or even the bank. Just pointing out a stupid argument there.wait when i lose a dollar does bank give me another one? :P
Sorry but bullshit. I'm fine if she thinks it isn't a big deal, but telling everyone this stuff is just going to happen and they are overreacting because it isn't a big deal to HER, steps over the line as it isn't her stuff, her time, or her account.[mod edit]
Neither I nor Aero said it wasn't a big deal. Aero said it was inevitable. Not inevitable for everyone, but given differences between clients and servers, someone somewhere was going to be having a bad day with any new game. It indeed will always suck when something happens we don't like.
But it's also very much the case that those complaining, especially here, really are doing nothing but complaining. It does not serve any purpose to post the problems one has in a game here unless the Devs are known to use this place as a means to player feedback. When they have their own forum, wiki, and report system, they are not particularly likely to be culling data from a site like this particularly often.
So then why are people complaining on a forum like this? Because as Aero said, that's pretty much what it's for. Especially the case here, if you look at pretty much any game that people talk about here it seems to be the driving force to create a thread that either reveres the game or damns it for one reason or another. You get the occasional middle of the road conversation from some posts and people, but it's not the norm.
Aside from that. We do need to maintain perspective on problems. Like I said, losing stuff in a game does indeed suck. It may be a harsh enough experience to make even me stop playing a game if I spent a good chunck of time attaining something I deem valuable. And I may rant about it, but I'm not going to chant it to the world, because the world doesn;t need to hear about my problems. Especially if it's a first world problem.
I know, it's cheap and a bit of a copout to say that. But fact is, it is what it is. We are talking about games. We are playing games. We are discussing the merits and issues with games. We are already in a state of luxury on the matter, especially given we are talking about new and recent games most of the time, meaning we had the means to go out and waste our time and money on these endeavors in the first place.
So we do need to place the priority of the games in perspective, not only to the state of the game and how the devs might be able to handle it, but to ourselves. Is there nothing more important in one's personal part of the world at this time to do than to whine about losing an hour of progress in an MMO?
probably the biggest thing.. some people acting like they just got robbed for all their money or something. Yes it sucks but it's part of MMOs it happens and you move on.. if it's really a game stopper for you to have this happen every now and then I'd say you really should maybe re-evaluate why you are even playing to begin with. I originally start posting on forums to share pictures, discuss builds, talk about games I enjoy.. but seems they all turn into this love/hate fight back and forth non-stop... oh well what can you do.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
To summarize... "GW2 Sucks" ... "GW2 Rocks!" ... "NO IT DOESN'T!" ... "YES IT DOES!"
Now back to the rollback... I experienced a 30-45 minute rollback after the log-in server outage last night. Was this worse in other servers or was the OP's experience unique?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Sorry but bullshit. I'm fine if she thinks it isn't a big deal, but telling everyone this stuff is just going to happen and they are overreacting because it isn't a big deal to HER, steps over the line as it isn't her stuff, her time, or her account. [mod edit]
Neither I nor Aero said it wasn't a big deal. Aero said it was inevitable. Not inevitable for everyone, but given differences between clients and servers, someone somewhere was going to be having a bad day with any new game. It indeed will always suck when something happens we don't like.
But it's also very much the case that those complaining, especially here, really are doing nothing but complaining. It does not serve any purpose to post the problems one has in a game here unless the Devs are known to use this place as a means to player feedback. When they have their own forum, wiki, and report system, they are not particularly likely to be culling data from a site like this particularly often.
So then why are people complaining on a forum like this? Because as Aero said, that's pretty much what it's for. Especially the case here, if you look at pretty much any game that people talk about here it seems to be the driving force to create a thread that either reveres the game or damns it for one reason or another. You get the occasional middle of the road conversation from some posts and people, but it's not the norm.
Aside from that. We do need to maintain perspective on problems. Like I said, losing stuff in a game does indeed suck. It may be a harsh enough experience to make even me stop playing a game if I spent a good chunck of time attaining something I deem valuable. And I may rant about it, but I'm not going to chant it to the world, because the world doesn;t need to hear about my problems. Especially if it's a first world problem.
I know, it's cheap and a bit of a copout to say that. But fact is, it is what it is. We are talking about games. We are playing games. We are discussing the merits and issues with games. We are already in a state of luxury on the matter, especially given we are talking about new and recent games most of the time, meaning we had the means to go out and waste our time and money on these endeavors in the first place.
So we do need to place the priority of the games in perspective, not only to the state of the game and how the devs might be able to handle it, but to ourselves. Is there nothing more important in one's personal part of the world at this time to do than to whine about losing an hour of progress in an MMO?
Umm ok my OP was not a complaint. More like 'This happened to anyone else'. People who dlsike to hear anything negative about GW2 often try to underplay these so called 'negative opinions' by making back handed clever insults. Yes it is not a big deal for you... well good for you..why are you here then? (by you i don't mean you).
Stop patronizing people, we are not kids who need schooling in obvious. (again not talking about you).
When i realised my progress has been rolled back, first thing i did was check official forums. There was nothing there. So i came here to see if it is me getting screwed or someone else in same boat as me.
It is only because of these forums that i got to know ANET made annoucement regarding it on Twitter..imagine that. As more and more people begin to log in game to realise there has been a roll back. They started posting on official forums. I even posted links.
Naturaly, they got flamed by the fans and topics got locked. So yep..official forums are not all that. Even Anet doesn't give much preference to their own official forums. They would rather make annoucements on twitter. And people like me keep fumbling on official forums looking for some information.
Umm ok my OP was not a complaint. More like 'This happened to anyone else'. People who dlsike to hear anything negative about GW2 often try to underplay these so called 'negative opinions' by making back handed clever insults. Yes it is not a big deal for you... well good for you..why are you here then? (by you i don't mean you).
Stop patronizing people, we are not kids who need schooling in obvious. (again not talking about you).
When i realised my progress has been rolled back, first thing i did was check official forums. There was nothing there. So i came here to see if it is me getting screwed or someone else in same boat as me.
It is only because of these forums that i got to know ANET made annoucement regarding it on Twitter..imagine that. As more and more people begin to log in game to realise there has been a roll back. They started posting on official forums. I even posted links.
Naturaly, they got flamed by the fans and topics got locked. So yep..official forums are not all that. Even Anet doesn't give much preference to their own official forums. They would rather make annoucements on twitter. And people like me keep fumbling on official forums looking for some information.
honestly don't think it was the OP that brought that reply up.. more like things others have said over the course of this thread
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I was playing then they toiok the server down for maintenance and when I logged in the next day it felt like there was a five minute roll back. I was only missing a few points of interest so it was nothing major but I can see how it can be frustrating.
Umm ok my OP was not a complaint. More like 'This happened to anyone else'. People who dlsike to hear anything negative about GW2 often try to underplay these so called 'negative opinions' by making back handed clever insults. Yes it is not a big deal for you... well good for you..why are you here then? (by you i don't mean you).
Stop patronizing people, we are not kids who need schooling in obvious. (again not talking about you).
When i realised my progress has been rolled back, first thing i did was check official forums. There was nothing there. So i came here to see if it is me getting screwed or someone else in same boat as me.
It is only because of these forums that i got to know ANET made annoucement regarding it on Twitter..imagine that. As more and more people begin to log in game to realise there has been a roll back. They started posting on official forums. I even posted links.
Naturaly, they got flamed by the fans and topics got locked. So yep..official forums are not all that. Even Anet doesn't give much preference to their own official forums. They would rather make annoucements on twitter. And people like me keep fumbling on official forums looking for some information.
honestly don't think it was the OP that brought that reply up.. more like things others have said over the course of this thread
No but the way you worded it made it feel like a big blanket "Get over yourselves" so hence these replies.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Comments
You are right about the rollbacks. I remember the time when a small number of players in Rift got rolled back 5 hrs prior to a patch release. But you are incorrect about not getting it back. Players who were affected were instructed to submit a petition and the issue was corrected.
So, then all GW2 players should have to do is submit a ticket and ANet will be right on top of things and set it straight.
Your example for WoW, was a failure on Blizzard's part. A big blunder. But it's not a customer support issue.
Of course the company guys are going to say "we can't". What are they going to say, " we won't"? "We don't want to?". Please...
They can do anything to any toon period, and that's all. If so, they can give any toon specifically anything, period. You are contradicting yourself. What the hell, I can do that with less than 1% of their technology on my computer on Skyrim.
You may not be, but you do sound naive if you use the company's posts to justify the company's excuses.
I am not going to give you my professional CV details, but I ll just say I had access to the internal test servers and the QA guys sitting right next to me. And the company was very big, one of the biggest. You can believe it or not, I couldn't care less.
And btw, you failed to list one single inconsistency.
Sorry but bullshit. I'm fine if she thinks it isn't a big deal, but telling everyone this stuff is just going to happen and they are overreacting because it isn't a big deal to HER, steps over the line as it isn't her stuff, her time, or her account. [mod edit]
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
True but they are apperently a company that don't have a method in place to prevent them, or fix the issue for players when they happen.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Perhaps ye should calm down a bit Gord?
It's never just a matter of having the tools to give people what they want. Aside from that not every game made actually grants the capacity to do that. It depends on how things were made. It's actually an important problem in games because it frequently affects the developer's capacity to extend the game longterm.
For example the commentary Gearbox had a while back about the limitations they had in creating DLC for the first Borderlands. There was too much about the game that they couldn't change or add things to, it was just not built for it.
Now the issue here is far more likely that the devs need to be able to verify and trust that wha they are reimbursing actually happaned. When there's a loss of data, the devs can't confirm what was lost and have to take word of mouth on the state things were in.
Add to that the issue that unless they reimburse everyone and set all characters back to the state they were in, they will be causing an imbalance, and there is another problem to address.
All in all, yes, they might be able to manipulate the character in many ways, but that's far from being the right thing to do when there's too much left unaccounted for. What they need to implement first is a means to verify lost data. A snapshot of the data dumped when a crash happened, anything that they can use as a reference to the claims people might be making so they can give people the things they actually lost rather than the things they claim they lost.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
They have ways to prevent it. All mmorpgs have hardware and systems in place to prevent this kind of thing from happening. But even that is never going to work 100% of the time. Also in WoW and FFXI and FFXIV and WAR I got hit with rollbacks and they could not replace my lost items or experience. I know they can now but not when it happened the first few times. Don't get me wrong it sucks when it happens but you seem to be suggesting that Anet is only one incapable of handling this issue.
My theme song.
Do you have the GM client? No? Then you do not know what they can and can not do with your characters. Anet devs might be able to but handling GM tickets and restoring lost items is not a Dev thing it's an in game support thing.
My theme song.
Neither I nor Aero said it wasn't a big deal. Aero said it was inevitable. Not inevitable for everyone, but given differences between clients and servers, someone somewhere was going to be having a bad day with any new game. It indeed will always suck when something happens we don't like.
But it's also very much the case that those complaining, especially here, really are doing nothing but complaining. It does not serve any purpose to post the problems one has in a game here unless the Devs are known to use this place as a means to player feedback. When they have their own forum, wiki, and report system, they are not particularly likely to be culling data from a site like this particularly often.
So then why are people complaining on a forum like this? Because as Aero said, that's pretty much what it's for. Especially the case here, if you look at pretty much any game that people talk about here it seems to be the driving force to create a thread that either reveres the game or damns it for one reason or another. You get the occasional middle of the road conversation from some posts and people, but it's not the norm.
Aside from that. We do need to maintain perspective on problems. Like I said, losing stuff in a game does indeed suck. It may be a harsh enough experience to make even me stop playing a game if I spent a good chunck of time attaining something I deem valuable. And I may rant about it, but I'm not going to chant it to the world, because the world doesn;t need to hear about my problems. Especially if it's a first world problem.
I know, it's cheap and a bit of a copout to say that. But fact is, it is what it is. We are talking about games. We are playing games. We are discussing the merits and issues with games. We are already in a state of luxury on the matter, especially given we are talking about new and recent games most of the time, meaning we had the means to go out and waste our time and money on these endeavors in the first place.
So we do need to place the priority of the games in perspective, not only to the state of the game and how the devs might be able to handle it, but to ourselves. Is there nothing more important in one's personal part of the world at this time to do than to whine about losing an hour of progress in an MMO?
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
But your insurance company may, or even the bank. Just pointing out a stupid argument there.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Two reasons for that, one I've never experienced a roll back, or remember anyone i know complaining about them in the other games you mention so from a personal standpoint I've never experienced them (could just be I've been very lucky). I have however experienced more than a few server crashes yet never lost any character data.
And reason two: A-net mentioned in the case of hacked accounts that they will be eventually implementing a rollback feature to restore characters that get hacked. I'm just curious that when other games out there have these features, why A-net didn't have them in at launch (or DO they but this time for some reason they didn't work).
And also (yeah sorry THREE reasons) as I stated earlier in the thread, the only official info we've gotten about these roll back is that A-net will not be able to replace anything lost. We've yet to hear why this happend, and more importantly if it happens again, in a more wide spread and devistating way, ARE there any stop gap features in place NOW to prevent this, or at least fix it if it does.
So sorry if it sounds like I'm saying A-net can't but its because currently I actually don't know if they can or not. Current evidence suggests not.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
True but they are apperently a company that don't have a method in place to prevent them, or fix the issue for players when they happen.
They have ways to prevent it. All mmorpgs have hardware and systems in place to prevent this kind of thing from happening. But even that is never going to work 100% of the time. Also in WoW and FFXI and FFXIV and WAR I got hit with rollbacks and they could not replace my lost items or experience. I know they can now but not when it happened the first few times. Don't get me wrong it sucks when it happens but you seem to be suggesting that Anet is only one incapable of handling this issue.
It seems there are examples on both sides of the argument to support individual poster's claims. But after all is said and done. ArenaNet is not correcting problems their game causes. Other companies do, or at least will try to.
They don't print money. They are handing you reserves. Nothing new being introduced in either case.
Compare that to the first comment, government printing money (or in this case the devs adding money, items, or xp), and new things are being introduced.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Tell me, do they level all their characters in any internal testing that they may do?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
wait when i lose a dollar does bank give me another one? :P
LOL. No but when your bank loses one of YOUR dollars they usually do.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
My theme song.
wait when i lose a dollar does bank give me another one? :P
Uhh, yes. It's called good customer support.
My theme song.
probably the biggest thing.. some people acting like they just got robbed for all their money or something. Yes it sucks but it's part of MMOs it happens and you move on.. if it's really a game stopper for you to have this happen every now and then I'd say you really should maybe re-evaluate why you are even playing to begin with. I originally start posting on forums to share pictures, discuss builds, talk about games I enjoy.. but seems they all turn into this love/hate fight back and forth non-stop... oh well what can you do.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
To summarize... "GW2 Sucks" ... "GW2 Rocks!" ... "NO IT DOESN'T!" ... "YES IT DOES!"
Now back to the rollback... I experienced a 30-45 minute rollback after the log-in server outage last night. Was this worse in other servers or was the OP's experience unique?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Umm ok my OP was not a complaint. More like 'This happened to anyone else'. People who dlsike to hear anything negative about GW2 often try to underplay these so called 'negative opinions' by making back handed clever insults. Yes it is not a big deal for you... well good for you..why are you here then? (by you i don't mean you).
Stop patronizing people, we are not kids who need schooling in obvious. (again not talking about you).
When i realised my progress has been rolled back, first thing i did was check official forums. There was nothing there. So i came here to see if it is me getting screwed or someone else in same boat as me.
It is only because of these forums that i got to know ANET made annoucement regarding it on Twitter..imagine that. As more and more people begin to log in game to realise there has been a roll back. They started posting on official forums. I even posted links.
Naturaly, they got flamed by the fans and topics got locked. So yep..official forums are not all that. Even Anet doesn't give much preference to their own official forums. They would rather make annoucements on twitter. And people like me keep fumbling on official forums looking for some information.
honestly don't think it was the OP that brought that reply up.. more like things others have said over the course of this thread
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Make games you want to play.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RavikAztar
No but the way you worded it made it feel like a big blanket "Get over yourselves" so hence these replies.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "