Edit: Unless that benefit is purely aesthetic, then its A-OK (logical dissonance what?)
Surely there is dissonance. But not in the way you imply. At least there is irony to be enjoyed.
An aesthetic perk does not affect performance. It's not a benefit, it's a visual reward for effort. Like a trophy.
Is a track star rewarded with the ability to use steroids for his next major race when he wins? No. He gets a medal.
Is a trackstar allowed to garrote other racers with his medal to ease the competition? No, but that'd be a quirky thing to hear on the news.
Point is though, it's not socialism, it's fair play. It's a form of logic that's used in all real life sports (all legal ones at least) and as such is a rule that has been applied to emerging e-sport type games as well. Guess where Guild Wars 2 was falling with their strategy. To a degree the game wants to be consideres a sport. As a result they have to play by sport rules.
In other words, they require fair play otherwise they don't qualify for e-sports.
EDIT: As for the OP. If you want to stand out and be recognized, then become the best player by beating everyone on even terms. I'm pretty sure you will get some regard from others for achieving that.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
U mad? Like who didn't know GW2 was just a placeholder until something good actually comes along. Even the developers knew that, which is why the game isn't a monthly fee.
Any game in the future that is worth any sort of real time committment will be a monthly fee pay to play model. People think they want no monthly fee, but trust me, no game worth longevity will ever do that.
GW2 is flavor of the month....well quarter really. You will see the population drop significantly over the next 6 months.
The hardcore fanbois, like the ones who used to exist on the SWTOR forums will also jump ship eventually. Those of us with a lot of MMO experience were fortunate enough to know better and get out early or avoid alltogether.
You are obviously out of touch with the reality of the economic models for the future of online gaming. I would trust your claim more if you seemed to know what you are talking about, but alas that has not happened here.
LOL, economic models for the future of online gaming? We'll see bud.
GW2 B2P is going to have a struggle real soon.
As the concurrent online populations begin to shrink as they do with all recent MMOs, the expected cash shop revenue is going to have to be shouldered by fewer and fewer players. GW2 cash shop is set up with too many one time purchases. Most players are happy to buy the Bank and character slots. But, I've seen the polls, People don't want to spend much money on the frivolities. Well, how long is that going to last? I believe that ANet never planned on making a steady income stream off the items in the shop, That I believe was always meant to be the gravy, But they wanted in on the gold market. That was supposed to be what made the game profitable. However, after most of the players have their crafting leveld on their mains and finally, once the players have a significant amount of gold earned, what's there to go back to the cash shop for? Players buy gems to trade for gold, but in a month or 2, what will the current playerbase continue to need gems for every month? They'll have thier stuff.
And, Yeah, Maybe Anet and NCSoft knew this, and they are fine with the revenue thev'e gotten and all is well on that front (I question that, but I can accept that argument)
I seriously doubt any other publisher will be thrilled to put out that model. At least not with a non P2W cash shop.
So, no, I see no future in this model. At least not one that benefits the players.
WvW seems pointless really. The bonuses are not significant enough to care about.
spvp is pointless as the gear cannot be worn outside
Dungeons are pointless other than farming shards for crafting
It would seem there is no way to elevate yourself beyond others, there is no form of name recognition, no way to be known as the richest, best, etc. Just pointless content.
The graphics and questing system are very good, but once you hit 80 the game just comes to a halt. Perhaps I am missing something here?
Nope, not missing anything. Basically you're 100% correct, its a game made for new age socialists who loathe the idea of putting in work towards something that would gain them any benefit over others.
Edit: Unless that benefit is purely aesthetic, then its A-OK (logical dissonance what?)
I love how you throw the word "work" around. What you mean is time. As in douches who have nothing better to do than play MMO games eight+ hours per day. The only reward they should get is a Loser badge, imo.
I'm all for hardcore MMO games, even as a casual player these days, but to pretend people who have more time to waste on games should be treated as special is ludicrous. Show me somw SKILL based rewards, and maybe I will agree a little more.
You are the kind of person who makes me feel ok with those who decide to buy gold, or buy helpful things in cash shops.
I strongly disagree with everything you said. Why should person A be limited because person B can't play enough? Put just as many things for person B to do aswell, but for ffs don't limit person A's content unless you want to keep seeing these 2-3 month mmos.
WvW seems pointless really. The bonuses are not significant enough to care about.
spvp is pointless as the gear cannot be worn outside
Dungeons are pointless other than farming shards for crafting
It would seem there is no way to elevate yourself beyond others, there is no form of name recognition, no way to be known as the richest, best, etc. Just pointless content.
The graphics and questing system are very good, but once you hit 80 the game just comes to a halt. Perhaps I am missing something here?
Nope, not missing anything. Basically you're 100% correct, its a game made for new age socialists who loathe the idea of putting in work towards something that would gain them any benefit over others.
Edit: Unless that benefit is purely aesthetic, then its A-OK (logical dissonance what?)
I love how you throw the word "work" around. What you mean is time. As in douches who have nothing better to do than play MMO games eight+ hours per day. The only reward they should get is a Loser badge, imo.
I'm all for hardcore MMO games, even as a casual player these days, but to pretend people who have more time to waste on games should be treated as special is ludicrous. Show me somw SKILL based rewards, and maybe I will agree a little more.
You are the kind of person who makes me feel ok with those who decide to buy gold, or buy helpful things in cash shops.
The funny part is most people talking about putting in more "work" in a video game can only afford to because so many of us actually go to work everyday and pay taxes.
WvW seems pointless really. The bonuses are not significant enough to care about.
spvp is pointless as the gear cannot be worn outside
Dungeons are pointless other than farming shards for crafting
It would seem there is no way to elevate yourself beyond others, there is no form of name recognition, no way to be known as the richest, best, etc. Just pointless content.
The graphics and questing system are very good, but once you hit 80 the game just comes to a halt. Perhaps I am missing something here?
If you are asking "what is the point of a game" and realy doesnt matter, which game it is. The point of a game can be different, there are usualy two, one for people who made it - profit, one for people who play it - fun. People forgot what fun is. We didn't need to compete in UGH, we didnt need it in Prehistoric etc. we had fun, tons of it. WoW tought ppl that you have to get something for fun, no, you enjoy the game as you want, with people you choose, and those people you choose, can make every game fun. So, my advice, L2P. You don't play a game to be best, we have life for that.
And to your "arguments", WvW is not pointless, its for people who enjoy large battles with many enemies, who enjoy siege stuff etc., and as a bonus, you get some bonuses. SPvP? You can't wear gear outside, so what? I enjoy it, I like it, I like to compete with other people, I like PvP, not farming, so I dont give a damn about reward, my reward is that I enjoyed what I was doing and I got better. Dungeons? I just like em, why? Its fun for me to go through dungeons.
P.S. You remind me of a WoW player I met in Age of Conan, he told me, why to PvP? There is no reward, no meaning why to play PvP, why are people even playing this game? Well, after couple minutes I met 5 people who were killing others around one spot, we ressed, got into group of 5 also and went to r*pe those bastards who killed us. Thats a rewarding moment for me. People should learn how to enjoy simple things. If you need reward and more reward for getting rewards, get a job, not enough? Get another job. Games are supposed to be fun, not farm - yes, I said it again.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
Edit: Unless that benefit is purely aesthetic, then its A-OK (logical dissonance what?)
Surely there is dissonance. But not in the way you imply. At least there is irony to be enjoyed.
An aesthetic perk does not affect performance. It's not a benefit, it's a visual reward for effort. Like a trophy.
Is a track star rewarded with the ability to use steroids for his next major race when he wins? No. He gets a medal.
Is a trackstar allowed to garrote other racers with his medal to ease the competition? No, but that'd be a quirky thing to hear on the news.
Point is though, it's not socialism, it's fair play. It's a form of logic that's used in all real life sports (all legal ones at least) and as such is a rule that has been applied to emerging e-sport type games as well. Guess where Guild Wars 2 was falling with their strategy. To a degree the game wants to be consideres a sport. As a result they have to play by sport rules.
In other words, they require fair play otherwise they don't qualify for e-sports.
EDIT: As for the OP. If you want to stand out and be recognized, then become the best player by beating everyone on even terms. I'm pretty sure you will get some regard from others for achieving that.
very much agreed good post:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
If anything the wow style gear grind pvp is "socialism" (although I think you got it mixed up with communism there, they area different thing if you live outside the usa)
Why?
Because it lets the guy who doesn't have a job or mortgage or family or whatever to win in his virtual life due to the amount of spare time he has from not actively participating in real life.
As a side note, you can tell there's some sort of expansion to a fairly popular game launching tomorrow, with the amount of gw2 Trolling going on. Look they don't need your misguided support, they already have a ton of cash they sit on while checking you the odd update bone.
WvW seems pointless really. The bonuses are not significant enough to care about.
spvp is pointless as the gear cannot be worn outside
Dungeons are pointless other than farming shards for crafting
It would seem there is no way to elevate yourself beyond others, there is no form of name recognition, no way to be known as the richest, best, etc. Just pointless content.
The graphics and questing system are very good, but once you hit 80 the game just comes to a halt. Perhaps I am missing something here?
Nope, not missing anything. Basically you're 100% correct, its a game made for new age socialists who loathe the idea of putting in work towards something that would gain them any benefit over others.
Edit: Unless that benefit is purely aesthetic, then its A-OK (logical dissonance what?)
I love how you throw the word "work" around. What you mean is time. As in douches who have nothing better to do than play MMO games eight+ hours per day. The only reward they should get is a Loser badge, imo.
I'm all for hardcore MMO games, even as a casual player these days, but to pretend people who have more time to waste on games should be treated as special is ludicrous. Show me somw SKILL based rewards, and maybe I will agree a little more.
You are the kind of person who makes me feel ok with those who decide to buy gold, or buy helpful things in cash shops.
I strongly disagree with everything you said. Why should person A be limited because person B can't play enough? Put just as many things for person B to do aswell, but for ffs don't limit person A's content unless you want to keep seeing these 2-3 month mmos.
game companies have stopped building MMOs aimed at your hypothetical person A. They are now targetting person B because they have come to understand they can actually build enough content to keep person B playing, while person A tends to rush through content and get bored. Building for the hardcore(not as large a % as some want to think) has failed to be financially rewarding for gaming companies.
The reason you see 2-3 month games has nothing to do with person B and everything to do with person A. Person A spends 300 of 600 hours since a game was released in game. Person A is of course bored since he spent 12 hours a day in game. Person A leaves and complains. Person B is not even halfway through the content that person A has demolished. Which gamer do you think over the long term will bring more money to the game?
WvW seems pointless really. The bonuses are not significant enough to care about.
spvp is pointless as the gear cannot be worn outside
Dungeons are pointless other than farming shards for crafting
It would seem there is no way to elevate yourself beyond others, there is no form of name recognition, no way to be known as the richest, best, etc. Just pointless content.
The graphics and questing system are very good, but once you hit 80 the game just comes to a halt. Perhaps I am missing something here?
Nope, not missing anything. Basically you're 100% correct, its a game made for new age socialists who loathe the idea of putting in work towards something that would gain them any benefit over others.
Edit: Unless that benefit is purely aesthetic, then its A-OK (logical dissonance what?)
I love how you throw the word "work" around. What you mean is time. As in douches who have nothing better to do than play MMO games eight+ hours per day. The only reward they should get is a Loser badge, imo.
I'm all for hardcore MMO games, even as a casual player these days, but to pretend people who have more time to waste on games should be treated as special is ludicrous. Show me somw SKILL based rewards, and maybe I will agree a little more.
You are the kind of person who makes me feel ok with those who decide to buy gold, or buy helpful things in cash shops.
I strongly disagree with everything you said. Why should person A be limited because person B can't play enough? Put just as many things for person B to do aswell, but for ffs don't limit person A's content unless you want to keep seeing these 2-3 month mmos.
I didn't say they should be limited. I said they should not be treated as special. They are rewarding themselves by completing the content faster in their minds, I guess. They aren't utilizing any more skill than anyone else, they are just wasting more of their life on the game. In my book, that means nothing and should not be rewarded. You are welcome to disagree.
If you want to talk about being rewarded for time, then we have to talk about sandbox games that have very long term or complex goals such as high-end deep crafting recipes that come from very rare loot drops and such. If you want to show you are more skilled with your character than others, then lets talk about skill based rewards.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Edit: Unless that benefit is purely aesthetic, then its A-OK (logical dissonance what?)
Is a track star rewarded with the ability to use steroids for his next major race when he wins? No. He gets a medal.
What that track star gets along with the trophy are better doctors, better facilties, better equipment to train with and to perform in. All of which increase their chance in the next race.
Originally posted by Cromica All I see is people that are mad because when the playing field is even they have no chance
[mod edit]
I actualy think, although he might be a troll, he is right. I hate as in WoW you beat someone only cause you have better equipment. I'm used to old school games, where terms were even, counter strike etc. You all can get awp, you dont have it, you have only deagle, but still you can kill awp guy with it. in WoW that guy with high "whatever" equip has big advanatage over you without that "whatever" equip. GW 2 makes it fair, even, therefore people who are used to play hours and hours so they can be "better" than others, they fail. Therefore, they make thread like this.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
Edit: Unless that benefit is purely aesthetic, then its A-OK (logical dissonance what?)
Is a track star rewarded with the ability to use steroids for his next major race when he wins? No. He gets a medal.
What that track star gets along with the trophy are better doctors, better facilties, better equipment to train with and to perform in. All of which increase their chance in the next race.
If you are good in a game where terms are even, you get a chance to play with people who are as good as you are, therefore, you get a better team - basicaly what that track star gets.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
Originally posted by Cromica All I see is people that are mad because when the playing field is even they have no chance
All I see is people who couldn't succeed in other game's PVP because they didn't want to put in the efort it took to get good so they whined until someone gave them their game Kinda like Pre-K recreational soccer where they don't keep score so none really loses.
Nahh, I don't really see that, but it makes as much sense as your post.
Honestly, you're kinda going a tad bit far don't you think.
Alright I'll play that game. Do you honestly think this game requires any less time to figure out your class, figure out your build and change around your stats? The only difference this game has to any other mmo is that:
1. You get all gear and levels right off the bat, no wait (talking sPvP only). This makes it so everyone is on a level playing field, but the ones who can master their class has the upper advantage. This advantage takes time to master. The only difference is, instead of buying a single set and messing with the gems or whatever, you instead mess with spec and gear and traits constantly.
2. No more gear grind to PvP. By no more gear grind, I mean no more tiers. If you think that the gear grind is the only benefit you get out of PvP, then clearly you're mistaken because with the gear grind came at least a little skill. Now, with no PvP stat, you can build how you want with nothing to hold over your head. The only significant difference is that those without skill and instead the large chunk of time tossed in there will have no advantage besides experience. Sadly thou, if you can't learn, it will come of no help to you.
So go ahead and call it kiddy all you want. I prefer a skill based PvP over gear based anyday. And I think that the gear based is far more Pre-K than skill based. Since instead of the top teams being easy to pick out due to skill in those game, instead it's more based off of what you are wearing. This catters to the younger croud more since even if you stink at PvP, you can still get the gear to beat anyone else. Hurray, participation points with honor and arena points to get gear.
The problem with players that need better gear to be great versus the players that have skill is that despite gaining that special gear over time and perhaps with hard work someday you will be on equal ground with everyone once they catch up.
Sadly far too many players that need the gear to show how great they are also resort to cheats and hacks once they can no longer have an advantage over everyone else. When they run out of tiers of gear the next level is more often than not the cheaters advantage. Many of my favorite games have been ruined by this.
Personally I have no issue with GW2. I am enjoying it a lot. If the game does not meet your tastes, that is fine. Say your piece and move on. Hanging around these forums week after week looking for arguments is just as pointless as trying to find progression in GW2.
I love how in sandbox games you can get a social standing that is more life-like. Your name will get around if you are extraordinarily evil or helpful to people. Your name gets around if you are an elite crafter, and you run your shop like a customer service pro. That's the kind of recognition I think is fantastic.
GW2 is not like this. As fun as it can be at times, it feels that way because it's only a few levels above Farmville in the amout of skill and thought required. That's true of all recent themepark games, IMO.
I was just think about crafting as I posted some stuff on the trading post. I thought.. who cares? There's 546 other swords just like the one I made, and it's faster to just vendor trash it. No one knows who crafts anything, and no one cares. Some of the most loved people in Star Wars Galaxies were the elite traders. The others were the players who were either attacking people, or defending them often. THAT is mmo gameplay in my opinion.
Screw gear. Give me back some community context.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
What that track star gets along with the trophy are better doctors, better facilties, better equipment to train with and to perform in. All of which increase their chance in the next race.
I'd call that conditional at best an a poor excuse at worst.
Mostly because what you allude to is something of a boxing thing. And not even necassarily universally true for that sport especially in more modern eras. You will always have exceptions to the rules when places do not have uniform quality of living and income. But that's less to do with individuals as it is the depreciation of an entire area.
For most modern mjor competitive sports they actually use several systems that could be referred to as socialism if one had no qualms with feigning insanity. For example american football, income between teams is balanced out. IT's done the same in other sports to varying success based on surrounding rules like in the MLB as well.
In track when you win sure you get cash prize and endorsments. But it's actually somewhat incorrect to think you are getting better trainging and facilities as a result as well. In many cases if not most you usually ahve some of the best available training and facilities already being used. Same situation with swimming. It's not an individual level thing we are talking about, it's a community affecting scale. And it may not be the only, but it generally a more important factor is the quality and focus of the community in which an individual is raised.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
What that track star gets along with the trophy are better doctors, better facilties, better equipment to train with and to perform in. All of which increase their chance in the next race.
I'd call that conditional at best an a poor excuse at worst.
snip.. to keep the context of the conversation.
Why did gabby douglas move away from home to go train? It was because of better doctors, facilities, equipment and training. Which she was given the oppertunity to do so because she put in the time and effort to win some earlier events.
I do not have a problem with this in life or gaming.
Why did gabby douglas move away from home to go train? It was because of better doctors, facilities, equipment and training. Which she was given the oppertunity to do so because she put in the time and effort to win some earlier events.
I do not have a problem with this in life or gaming.
I love how you snipped the sentence that directly addresses that issue.
"You will always have exceptions to the rules when places do not have uniform quality of living and income."
Or my last remark.
"It's not an individual level thing we are talking about, it's a community affecting scale. And it may not be the only, but it generally a more important factor is the quality and focus of the community in which an individual is raised."
Red herring is not appreciated.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Originally posted by Cromica All I see is people that are mad because when the playing field is even they have no chance
All I see is people who couldn't succeed in other game's PVP because they didn't want to put in the efort it took to get good so they whined until someone gave them their game Kinda like Pre-K recreational soccer where they don't keep score so none really loses.
Nahh, I don't really see that, but it makes as much sense as your post.
Honestly, you're kinda going a tad bit far don't you think.
Alright I'll play that game. Do you honestly think this game requires any less time to figure out your class, figure out your build and change around your stats? The only difference this game has to any other mmo is that:
1. You get all gear and levels right off the bat, no wait (talking sPvP only). This makes it so everyone is on a level playing field, but the ones who can master their class has the upper advantage. This advantage takes time to master. The only difference is, instead of buying a single set and messing with the gems or whatever, you instead mess with spec and gear and traits constantly.
2. No more gear grind to PvP. By no more gear grind, I mean no more tiers. If you think that the gear grind is the only benefit you get out of PvP, then clearly you're mistaken because with the gear grind came at least a little skill. Now, with no PvP stat, you can build how you want with nothing to hold over your head. The only significant difference is that those without skill and instead the large chunk of time tossed in there will have no advantage besides experience. Sadly thou, if you can't learn, it will come of no help to you.
So go ahead and call it kiddy all you want. I prefer a skill based PvP over gear based anyday. And I think that the gear based is far more Pre-K than skill based. Since instead of the top teams being easy to pick out due to skill in those game, instead it's more based off of what you are wearing. This catters to the younger croud more since even if you stink at PvP, you can still get the gear to beat anyone else. Hurray, participation points with honor and arena points to get gear.
Did you read my post? I mean all of it?
I said what I said to make an example of what extreme or absolutes look like. You will always find groups that will represent both sides, but that's not most. Most players are better than they are told, but not as good as they think.
Comments
Surely there is dissonance. But not in the way you imply. At least there is irony to be enjoyed.
An aesthetic perk does not affect performance. It's not a benefit, it's a visual reward for effort. Like a trophy.
Is a track star rewarded with the ability to use steroids for his next major race when he wins? No. He gets a medal.
Is a trackstar allowed to garrote other racers with his medal to ease the competition? No, but that'd be a quirky thing to hear on the news.
Point is though, it's not socialism, it's fair play. It's a form of logic that's used in all real life sports (all legal ones at least) and as such is a rule that has been applied to emerging e-sport type games as well. Guess where Guild Wars 2 was falling with their strategy. To a degree the game wants to be consideres a sport. As a result they have to play by sport rules.
In other words, they require fair play otherwise they don't qualify for e-sports.
EDIT: As for the OP. If you want to stand out and be recognized, then become the best player by beating everyone on even terms. I'm pretty sure you will get some regard from others for achieving that.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
GW2 B2P is going to have a struggle real soon.
As the concurrent online populations begin to shrink as they do with all recent MMOs, the expected cash shop revenue is going to have to be shouldered by fewer and fewer players. GW2 cash shop is set up with too many one time purchases. Most players are happy to buy the Bank and character slots. But, I've seen the polls, People don't want to spend much money on the frivolities. Well, how long is that going to last? I believe that ANet never planned on making a steady income stream off the items in the shop, That I believe was always meant to be the gravy, But they wanted in on the gold market. That was supposed to be what made the game profitable. However, after most of the players have their crafting leveld on their mains and finally, once the players have a significant amount of gold earned, what's there to go back to the cash shop for? Players buy gems to trade for gold, but in a month or 2, what will the current playerbase continue to need gems for every month? They'll have thier stuff.
And, Yeah, Maybe Anet and NCSoft knew this, and they are fine with the revenue thev'e gotten and all is well on that front (I question that, but I can accept that argument)
I seriously doubt any other publisher will be thrilled to put out that model. At least not with a non P2W cash shop.
So, no, I see no future in this model. At least not one that benefits the players.
I strongly disagree with everything you said. Why should person A be limited because person B can't play enough? Put just as many things for person B to do aswell, but for ffs don't limit person A's content unless you want to keep seeing these 2-3 month mmos.
The funny part is most people talking about putting in more "work" in a video game can only afford to because so many of us actually go to work everyday and pay taxes.
I'll sell it to you.
If you are asking "what is the point of a game" and realy doesnt matter, which game it is. The point of a game can be different, there are usualy two, one for people who made it - profit, one for people who play it - fun. People forgot what fun is. We didn't need to compete in UGH, we didnt need it in Prehistoric etc. we had fun, tons of it. WoW tought ppl that you have to get something for fun, no, you enjoy the game as you want, with people you choose, and those people you choose, can make every game fun. So, my advice, L2P. You don't play a game to be best, we have life for that.
And to your "arguments", WvW is not pointless, its for people who enjoy large battles with many enemies, who enjoy siege stuff etc., and as a bonus, you get some bonuses. SPvP? You can't wear gear outside, so what? I enjoy it, I like it, I like to compete with other people, I like PvP, not farming, so I dont give a damn about reward, my reward is that I enjoyed what I was doing and I got better. Dungeons? I just like em, why? Its fun for me to go through dungeons.
P.S. You remind me of a WoW player I met in Age of Conan, he told me, why to PvP? There is no reward, no meaning why to play PvP, why are people even playing this game? Well, after couple minutes I met 5 people who were killing others around one spot, we ressed, got into group of 5 also and went to r*pe those bastards who killed us. Thats a rewarding moment for me.
People should learn how to enjoy simple things. If you need reward and more reward for getting rewards, get a job, not enough? Get another job. Games are supposed to be fun, not farm - yes, I said it again.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
very much agreed good post:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Why?
Because it lets the guy who doesn't have a job or mortgage or family or whatever to win in his virtual life due to the amount of spare time he has from not actively participating in real life.
As a side note, you can tell there's some sort of expansion to a fairly popular game launching tomorrow, with the amount of gw2 Trolling going on. Look they don't need your misguided support, they already have a ton of cash they sit on while checking you the odd update bone.
game companies have stopped building MMOs aimed at your hypothetical person A. They are now targetting person B because they have come to understand they can actually build enough content to keep person B playing, while person A tends to rush through content and get bored. Building for the hardcore(not as large a % as some want to think) has failed to be financially rewarding for gaming companies.
The reason you see 2-3 month games has nothing to do with person B and everything to do with person A. Person A spends 300 of 600 hours since a game was released in game. Person A is of course bored since he spent 12 hours a day in game. Person A leaves and complains. Person B is not even halfway through the content that person A has demolished. Which gamer do you think over the long term will bring more money to the game?
I didn't say they should be limited. I said they should not be treated as special. They are rewarding themselves by completing the content faster in their minds, I guess. They aren't utilizing any more skill than anyone else, they are just wasting more of their life on the game. In my book, that means nothing and should not be rewarded. You are welcome to disagree.
If you want to talk about being rewarded for time, then we have to talk about sandbox games that have very long term or complex goals such as high-end deep crafting recipes that come from very rare loot drops and such. If you want to show you are more skilled with your character than others, then lets talk about skill based rewards.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
What that track star gets along with the trophy are better doctors, better facilties, better equipment to train with and to perform in. All of which increase their chance in the next race.
I actualy think, although he might be a troll, he is right. I hate as in WoW you beat someone only cause you have better equipment. I'm used to old school games, where terms were even, counter strike etc. You all can get awp, you dont have it, you have only deagle, but still you can kill awp guy with it. in WoW that guy with high "whatever" equip has big advanatage over you without that "whatever" equip. GW 2 makes it fair, even, therefore people who are used to play hours and hours so they can be "better" than others, they fail. Therefore, they make thread like this.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
If you are good in a game where terms are even, you get a chance to play with people who are as good as you are, therefore, you get a better team - basicaly what that track star gets.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
Honestly, you're kinda going a tad bit far don't you think.
Alright I'll play that game. Do you honestly think this game requires any less time to figure out your class, figure out your build and change around your stats? The only difference this game has to any other mmo is that:
1. You get all gear and levels right off the bat, no wait (talking sPvP only). This makes it so everyone is on a level playing field, but the ones who can master their class has the upper advantage. This advantage takes time to master. The only difference is, instead of buying a single set and messing with the gems or whatever, you instead mess with spec and gear and traits constantly.
2. No more gear grind to PvP. By no more gear grind, I mean no more tiers. If you think that the gear grind is the only benefit you get out of PvP, then clearly you're mistaken because with the gear grind came at least a little skill. Now, with no PvP stat, you can build how you want with nothing to hold over your head. The only significant difference is that those without skill and instead the large chunk of time tossed in there will have no advantage besides experience. Sadly thou, if you can't learn, it will come of no help to you.
So go ahead and call it kiddy all you want. I prefer a skill based PvP over gear based anyday. And I think that the gear based is far more Pre-K than skill based. Since instead of the top teams being easy to pick out due to skill in those game, instead it's more based off of what you are wearing. This catters to the younger croud more since even if you stink at PvP, you can still get the gear to beat anyone else. Hurray, participation points with honor and arena points to get gear.
The problem with players that need better gear to be great versus the players that have skill is that despite gaining that special gear over time and perhaps with hard work someday you will be on equal ground with everyone once they catch up.
Sadly far too many players that need the gear to show how great they are also resort to cheats and hacks once they can no longer have an advantage over everyone else. When they run out of tiers of gear the next level is more often than not the cheaters advantage. Many of my favorite games have been ruined by this.
Personally I have no issue with GW2. I am enjoying it a lot. If the game does not meet your tastes, that is fine. Say your piece and move on. Hanging around these forums week after week looking for arguments is just as pointless as trying to find progression in GW2.
I love how in sandbox games you can get a social standing that is more life-like. Your name will get around if you are extraordinarily evil or helpful to people. Your name gets around if you are an elite crafter, and you run your shop like a customer service pro. That's the kind of recognition I think is fantastic.
GW2 is not like this. As fun as it can be at times, it feels that way because it's only a few levels above Farmville in the amout of skill and thought required. That's true of all recent themepark games, IMO.
I was just think about crafting as I posted some stuff on the trading post. I thought.. who cares? There's 546 other swords just like the one I made, and it's faster to just vendor trash it. No one knows who crafts anything, and no one cares. Some of the most loved people in Star Wars Galaxies were the elite traders. The others were the players who were either attacking people, or defending them often. THAT is mmo gameplay in my opinion.
Screw gear. Give me back some community context.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I'd call that conditional at best an a poor excuse at worst.
Mostly because what you allude to is something of a boxing thing. And not even necassarily universally true for that sport especially in more modern eras. You will always have exceptions to the rules when places do not have uniform quality of living and income. But that's less to do with individuals as it is the depreciation of an entire area.
For most modern mjor competitive sports they actually use several systems that could be referred to as socialism if one had no qualms with feigning insanity. For example american football, income between teams is balanced out. IT's done the same in other sports to varying success based on surrounding rules like in the MLB as well.
In track when you win sure you get cash prize and endorsments. But it's actually somewhat incorrect to think you are getting better trainging and facilities as a result as well. In many cases if not most you usually ahve some of the best available training and facilities already being used. Same situation with swimming. It's not an individual level thing we are talking about, it's a community affecting scale. And it may not be the only, but it generally a more important factor is the quality and focus of the community in which an individual is raised.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Why did gabby douglas move away from home to go train? It was because of better doctors, facilities, equipment and training. Which she was given the oppertunity to do so because she put in the time and effort to win some earlier events.
I do not have a problem with this in life or gaming.
I love how you snipped the sentence that directly addresses that issue.
"You will always have exceptions to the rules when places do not have uniform quality of living and income."
Or my last remark.
"It's not an individual level thing we are talking about, it's a community affecting scale. And it may not be the only, but it generally a more important factor is the quality and focus of the community in which an individual is raised."
Red herring is not appreciated.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I wonder will that east African guy that won really have a better back up team than the the guy from a rich nation that finished 19th
Did you read my post? I mean all of it?
I said what I said to make an example of what extreme or absolutes look like. You will always find groups that will represent both sides, but that's not most. Most players are better than they are told, but not as good as they think.
Thats distance running only. When was the last time an east African won a sprint race? Thats where the track money is anyway.