Anyone else think that by being able to do this by yourself actually makes TERA combat the inferior option?
After all, TERA and GW2 are meant to be MMOs, right?
You're totally right, you should be handcuffed by mechanics and dicerolls or it's not a real MMO!
I understand that it makes you feel powerful to solo a strong mob, but it should only be accomplishable by those with great skill... and in most mmos there isn't a such thing as having great skill because the combat is so generic and based on stats and not ability.
Originally posted by Zylaxx The only, and let me repeat the ONLY reason why you can kill stuuff like that in melee in Tera is because the mobs telegraph for seconds, and move immensely slower then GW2. Just look at the GW2CM (GW2 Combat Mode Mod) which basically turns the game into Tera combat and you still cant kill champions like that as a melee because GW2 has an infinetly more complex and robust Monster AI. SO again GW2 shoots Tera down.
A major reason why dodge/circle-strafing doesn't work nearly as well in GW2 is because flaws in the mob physics for a large amount of mobs.
Look at 0:56-0:58 (yes, it's that short. You will probably have trouble catching it). Holy mother auto-facing Batman! That's like, what, 100+ degrees in a split second? And he attacks right after!? What kind of dodging can you possibly have in a game where a mob auto-faces 100 degrees with an attack??? (instant, no less) When switching targets, to boot? So much for team play or w/e.
(The video has become private since that post, but the point is the ridiculously bad physics that make the monster able to turn to character at a ridiculous speed; not all monsters are affected by this problem though)
Problem 5: damage by proximity.
Again, this doesn't seem to be the case for all mobs (not the big ass dude up there), but it did seem to be the case for worms and most other mobs. This is true for most MMORPGs out there but is a bit strange for a twitch MMO. If a mob begins an attack animation, you may get hit on it even if you are, say, to the left of the front of the mob, if you're too close to the mob. Particularly, the worm get-out-of-ground attack seemed to work like this. No matter what I do it hits me. Of course, the worm's reaction to you rolling away is to go underground again. This is honestly one of the more annoying mobs in the game and why would you put that in someone's starting area is beyond me.
What I am trying to say is, it seems most mobs have essentially an AoE (or, at least, cone) melee attack that you can't dodge unless you disengage (leave melee range). The reason this is terrible is because it means a close-range side roll is useless since you remain in melee range and get hit anyway. And if you roll any other way you're too far and by the time you come back they restart the attack animation. Catch-22.
seems you are right... but every char can't solo every mob.. a thief couldn't solo the mob in the second video... way too much aggro and not enough stealth/evasion maneuvers to get away..... plus the ele has a distinct advantage... 4 I COUNT 4 skill bars..... so many aoes and skills to choose from...
Originally posted by afhn2110 Anyone that says GW2 combat is better than Tera just hasn't played Tera, or its a person that just needs a tab target as its easier. That said, Tera is a blast...but the pvp it just bad...no owpvp because everyone hides in safezones smply because there is no reason to go out in the ow...BG's are a joke....was fun, but for pvpers...look elsewhere.
I played TERA and I think GW2 combat is superior. Also I dont tab target in GW2, and I can kill champs solo on my Mesmer if I want to waste a good 10 minutes or so.
TERA combat is just the same old rotation based combat with added dodging (which is very easy with the predictable mob attacks and animations). GW2 has far more strategic use of less skills, which makes for far more interesting combat. Dodging at the right time will do amazing things in GW2, but it wont save you from damage forever like it can in TERA.
Also I found the classes and combat skills in TERA really boring and uninspired. I did like the races though, and the world was gorgeous.
seems you are right... but every char can't solo every mob.. a thief couldn't solo the mob in the second video... way too much aggro and not enough stealth/evasion maneuvers to get away..... plus the ele has a distinct advantage... 4 I COUNT 4 skill bars..... so many aoes and skills to choose from...
Dual gun thief is pretty much the tankiest class for 1 on 1s.
Pop the smoke field and keep applying that blind with your gun shots.
seems you are right... but every char can't solo every mob.. a thief couldn't solo the mob in the second video... way too much aggro and not enough stealth/evasion maneuvers to get away..... plus the ele has a distinct advantage... 4 I COUNT 4 skill bars..... so many aoes and skills to choose from...
Dual gun thief is pretty much the tankiest class for 1 on 1s.
Pop the smoke field and keep applying that blind with your gun shots.
U think? i need to make you my buddy.. O wise Yoda.... can i be you padawan?
Edit: on a serious note though.... when facing a champ that spawns supporters .. would that really do much good? the guns only affect 1 mob.
Originally posted by Dkompoze Tera was/is poop, for combat Vindictus was better,for everything else gw2 is better.
why is tera combat poop?
Because it's painfully slow and boring, and not actiony at all like they advertised it would be. Just lok at the video OP posted. Most tab-targeting mmos are more exciting then Tera.
you are right in a sense.. its slow compared to gw2... and i guess it really isn't highspeed combat.. but the combat animations look nice.. and the skills look good.. jump also seemed to serve a purpose in combat... he dodged some skills by jumping..
Originally posted by Betaguy I don't even need to watch that video to know TERA's combat is better... I played both and made that decision after day 1 of playing both.
its hard to have a discussion when you refuse to post reasons.
And people say GW2 needs the trinity. Whats the point of a healer in Tera? lol
I also like how the dragon is incredibley slow and basically just attacks in the opposite direction of the player. Not quite so epic.
Dragon: I'm gonna bite you!
Player: I'm moving
Dragon: I dont care i'm still gonna try and bite you in that exact same spot you were in very sloowly- hey! how did you manage to elude my viscious slow bite of death?
Player: I got skill
+1
My point exactly.
I was gonna edit to add this but i'll put it here.
In GW2 I held off the Champion Wasp Queen on my Mesmer for a good 5-10minutes solo until more people showed up :-p. Now THAT was epic, I was really on the ball poppin out clones left and right that damn wasp didn't know who i was haha. Wasn't until she changed into the drones that I got into some trouble.
That was fun, especially since you aren't expected to do it in GW2, where Tera its expected you can solo Bams if you dodge enough.
I did play Tera and the combat was fun, it had its perks, but ultimately the rest of the game didn't stack up and I LOVE not having a trinity anymore.
You know it is pretty easy as a Mesmer to keep a mob busy. All you do is pop clones at them and run around.
What that guy is doing would be the equivalent of a melee in GW 2, killing a lvl 80 champion mob by himself. It cannot be done because GW 2 has hybrid skill based and most of the combat is by dice rolls. However in TERA, if you are good enough, you can pretty much beat anything with a Warrior class.
And for you people who think locking you in place is bad, that is intentional. It makes the combat more skill-based as you have to time your attacks.
So to be clear here, I do think GW 2 is a superior overall game to TERA but I really miss the combat in the latter one. It is far more based on your skills than anything else.
Hate to break it to you, but some of the champion mobs actually can be soloed in GW2. Even by melee specced players.
The big difference is that in GW2 champions can't be soloed by bad players. In TERA, you get so many tells, you get more telegraphs that give you longer to react, and you also get health potions to make up for any mistakes you make along the way (yes, I know they have a cooldown, but in comparison GW2 has none of these)
Like TERA, though, soloing champions in GW2 takes FOREVER. This is one of the reasons you don't see people do it that often. It's not easy, it takes a long time, and the rewards aren't better for soloing. For this same reason you don't see as many people in TERA soloing BAMs anymore.
If you're going to compare the combat between the two games, it may be better to use other comparisons.
Anyone else think that by being able to do this by yourself actually makes TERA combat the inferior option?
After all, TERA and GW2 are meant to be MMOs, right?
You're totally right, you should be handcuffed by mechanics and dicerolls or it's not a real MMO!
I understand that it makes you feel powerful to solo a strong mob, but it should only be accomplishable by those with great skill... and in most mmos there isn't a such thing as having great skill because the combat is so generic and based on stats and not ability.
I think that was the point behind why Tera combat is different (and better)
Originally posted by Dkompoze Tera was/is poop, for combat Vindictus was better,for everything else gw2 is better.
why is tera combat poop?
Because it's painfully slow and boring, and not actiony at all like they advertised it would be. Just lok at the video OP posted. Most tab-targeting mmos are more exciting then Tera.
Have you people even played the game past level 20?
What that guy is doing would be the equivalent of a melee in GW 2, killing a lvl 80 champion mob by himself. It cannot be done because GW 2 has hybrid skill based and most of the combat is by dice rolls. However in TERA, if you are good enough, you can pretty much beat anything with a Warrior class.
And for you people who think locking you in place is bad, that is intentional. It makes the combat more skill-based as you have to time your attacks.
So to be clear here, I do think GW 2 is a superior overall game to TERA but I really miss the combat in the latter one. It is far more based on your skills than anything else.
[mod edit]
This is probably one of the most ridiculously uninformed posts I've ever seen on this forum, and this community is pretty awful, so that's saying something.
Originally posted by Zylaxx The only, and let me repeat the ONLY reason why you can kill stuuff like that in melee in Tera is because the mobs telegraph for seconds, and move immensely slower then GW2. Just look at the GW2CM (GW2 Combat Mode Mod) which basically turns the game into Tera combat and you still cant kill champions like that as a melee because GW2 has an infinetly more complex and robust Monster AI. SO again GW2 shoots Tera down.
A major reason why dodge/circle-strafing doesn't work nearly as well in GW2 is because flaws in the mob physics for a large amount of mobs.
Look at 0:56-0:58 (yes, it's that short. You will probably have trouble catching it). Holy mother auto-facing Batman! That's like, what, 100+ degrees in a split second? And he attacks right after!? What kind of dodging can you possibly have in a game where a mob auto-faces 100 degrees with an attack??? (instant, no less) When switching targets, to boot? So much for team play or w/e.
(The video has become private since that post, but the point is the ridiculously bad physics that make the monster able to turn to character at a ridiculous speed; not all monsters are affected by this problem though)
Problem 5: damage by proximity.
Again, this doesn't seem to be the case for all mobs (not the big ass dude up there), but it did seem to be the case for worms and most other mobs. This is true for most MMORPGs out there but is a bit strange for a twitch MMO. If a mob begins an attack animation, you may get hit on it even if you are, say, to the left of the front of the mob, if you're too close to the mob. Particularly, the worm get-out-of-ground attack seemed to work like this. No matter what I do it hits me. Of course, the worm's reaction to you rolling away is to go underground again. This is honestly one of the more annoying mobs in the game and why would you put that in someone's starting area is beyond me.
What I am trying to say is, it seems most mobs have essentially an AoE (or, at least, cone) melee attack that you can't dodge unless you disengage (leave melee range). The reason this is terrible is because it means a close-range side roll is useless since you remain in melee range and get hit anyway. And if you roll any other way you're too far and by the time you come back they restart the attack animation. Catch-22.
(Which is another example of bad mob physics)
Interesting write up and link to Irus' post. I could never put into words eloquently what my problem is with GW2's combat but I've tried in the past and what it comes down to is the same issues Irus found.
In my opinion, if you want to do twitch style combat, go for it 100% or gtfo. I don't like this half-assed implementation currently in GW2.
What we have now in GW2 is a hodgepodge of damage avoidance via spells (hence no active block).
E.g. this is the warrior's block. 3 seconds channeled, on a 30 second cooldown.
What that guy is doing would be the equivalent of a melee in GW 2, killing a lvl 80 champion mob by himself. It cannot be done because GW 2 has hybrid skill based and most of the combat is by dice rolls. However in TERA, if you are good enough, you can pretty much beat anything with a Warrior class.
And for you people who think locking you in place is bad, that is intentional. It makes the combat more skill-based as you have to time your attacks.
So to be clear here, I do think GW 2 is a superior overall game to TERA but I really miss the combat in the latter one. It is far more based on your skills than anything else.
[mod edit]
This is probably one of the most ridiculously uninformed posts I've ever seen on this forum, and this community is pretty awful, so that's saying something.
Honestly the discussion topic posted here is fairly ridiculous. The topic should have been brought up in the Tera forum, not GW2. Pesonally the entire thing just seems like taunting to me and not the basis for discussion in the GW2 forum
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
What that guy is doing would be the equivalent of a melee in GW 2, killing a lvl 80 champion mob by himself. It cannot be done because GW 2 has hybrid skill based and most of the combat is by dice rolls. However in TERA, if you are good enough, you can pretty much beat anything with a Warrior class.
And for you people who think locking you in place is bad, that is intentional. It makes the combat more skill-based as you have to time your attacks.
So to be clear here, I do think GW 2 is a superior overall game to TERA but I really miss the combat in the latter one. It is far more based on your skills than anything else.
Kinda did the same thing with my lvl 22 mystic in TERA -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xMC01Pa7do. After this quest BAM I took his bigger (and harder) brother out and had no problem soloing him either. Okay, took me a lot longer, but with a good approach (and 4x resummon of the thrall of protextion) it can be done. I agree that in GW2 this is kinda impossible
Comments
It's quite possible to solo champions in GW2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67ToSaS9xjQ&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIrqAv8yO7Q&feature=plcp
I understand that it makes you feel powerful to solo a strong mob, but it should only be accomplishable by those with great skill... and in most mmos there isn't a such thing as having great skill because the combat is so generic and based on stats and not ability.
A major reason why dodge/circle-strafing doesn't work nearly as well in GW2 is because flaws in the mob physics for a large amount of mobs.
To quote from http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5024995#5024995:
From this video:
Look at 0:56-0:58 (yes, it's that short. You will probably have trouble catching it). Holy mother auto-facing Batman! That's like, what, 100+ degrees in a split second? And he attacks right after!? What kind of dodging can you possibly have in a game where a mob auto-faces 100 degrees with an attack??? (instant, no less) When switching targets, to boot? So much for team play or w/e.
(The video has become private since that post, but the point is the ridiculously bad physics that make the monster able to turn to character at a ridiculous speed; not all monsters are affected by this problem though)
Problem 5: damage by proximity.
Again, this doesn't seem to be the case for all mobs (not the big ass dude up there), but it did seem to be the case for worms and most other mobs. This is true for most MMORPGs out there but is a bit strange for a twitch MMO. If a mob begins an attack animation, you may get hit on it even if you are, say, to the left of the front of the mob, if you're too close to the mob. Particularly, the worm get-out-of-ground attack seemed to work like this. No matter what I do it hits me. Of course, the worm's reaction to you rolling away is to go underground again. This is honestly one of the more annoying mobs in the game and why would you put that in someone's starting area is beyond me.
What I am trying to say is, it seems most mobs have essentially an AoE (or, at least, cone) melee attack that you can't dodge unless you disengage (leave melee range). The reason this is terrible is because it means a close-range side roll is useless since you remain in melee range and get hit anyway. And if you roll any other way you're too far and by the time you come back they restart the attack animation. Catch-22.
(Which is another example of bad mob physics)
seems you are right... but every char can't solo every mob.. a thief couldn't solo the mob in the second video... way too much aggro and not enough stealth/evasion maneuvers to get away..... plus the ele has a distinct advantage... 4 I COUNT 4 skill bars..... so many aoes and skills to choose from...
I played TERA and I think GW2 combat is superior. Also I dont tab target in GW2, and I can kill champs solo on my Mesmer if I want to waste a good 10 minutes or so.
TERA combat is just the same old rotation based combat with added dodging (which is very easy with the predictable mob attacks and animations). GW2 has far more strategic use of less skills, which makes for far more interesting combat. Dodging at the right time will do amazing things in GW2, but it wont save you from damage forever like it can in TERA.
Also I found the classes and combat skills in TERA really boring and uninspired. I did like the races though, and the world was gorgeous.
Dual gun thief is pretty much the tankiest class for 1 on 1s.
Pop the smoke field and keep applying that blind with your gun shots.
U think? i need to make you my buddy.. O wise Yoda.... can i be you padawan?
Edit: on a serious note though.... when facing a champ that spawns supporters .. would that really do much good? the guns only affect 1 mob.
Because it's painfully slow and boring, and not actiony at all like they advertised it would be. Just lok at the video OP posted. Most tab-targeting mmos are more exciting then Tera.
its hard to have a discussion when you refuse to post reasons.
You know it is pretty easy as a Mesmer to keep a mob busy. All you do is pop clones at them and run around.
Hate to break it to you, but some of the champion mobs actually can be soloed in GW2. Even by melee specced players.
The big difference is that in GW2 champions can't be soloed by bad players. In TERA, you get so many tells, you get more telegraphs that give you longer to react, and you also get health potions to make up for any mistakes you make along the way (yes, I know they have a cooldown, but in comparison GW2 has none of these)
Like TERA, though, soloing champions in GW2 takes FOREVER. This is one of the reasons you don't see people do it that often. It's not easy, it takes a long time, and the rewards aren't better for soloing. For this same reason you don't see as many people in TERA soloing BAMs anymore.
If you're going to compare the combat between the two games, it may be better to use other comparisons.
Tera combat is fine, but I don´t see any difficult in this fight.
Looks easy and boring.
I prefer Gw2 style.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Am I the only who has taken down the giant in Nagling (or whatever that town is called) for the DE solo?
THAT was a pain int he ass. Capable of 2 shotting me, and took about 15 minutes to bring him down, but I did it.
I think that was the point behind why Tera combat is different (and better)
Have you people even played the game past level 20?
This is probably one of the most ridiculously uninformed posts I've ever seen on this forum, and this community is pretty awful, so that's saying something.
Interesting write up and link to Irus' post. I could never put into words eloquently what my problem is with GW2's combat but I've tried in the past and what it comes down to is the same issues Irus found.
In my opinion, if you want to do twitch style combat, go for it 100% or gtfo. I don't like this half-assed implementation currently in GW2.
What we have now in GW2 is a hodgepodge of damage avoidance via spells (hence no active block).
E.g. this is the warrior's block. 3 seconds channeled, on a 30 second cooldown.
(Nageling iirc) Well done. I hate that bastard.
Especially when he decides to spam his stomp
So there I am praying my dodge comes off cooldown as well as my other skills before he stomps. Proud to say I outlive everyone else in that event hah.
Honestly the discussion topic posted here is fairly ridiculous. The topic should have been brought up in the Tera forum, not GW2. Pesonally the entire thing just seems like taunting to me and not the basis for discussion in the GW2 forum
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Kinda did the same thing with my lvl 22 mystic in TERA -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xMC01Pa7do. After this quest BAM I took his bigger (and harder) brother out and had no problem soloing him either. Okay, took me a lot longer, but with a good approach (and 4x resummon of the thrall of protextion) it can be done. I agree that in GW2 this is kinda impossible