I never said that SOE was right, that they are smart, or that they even know what they are doing. My whole point with my OP was this: Gamespot at this moment does not represent the game...nor does the forums...nor does just about anything else right now.
History has shown that whiners, and complainers(Not neccesarly bad) speak out more then the pro-anything group. For Example; World Of Warcraft.....From the look on the forums there most of the time you would think the game was an utter mess but guess what? It's one of the most well made games imo. It might not be your cup of tea or mine, but it deffinately is well made.
Just stop saying IT SUXXORS DEWB!! Why don't you list reasons like an adult should.
Reasons it's good:
1) Combat is more immersing now, I can now run around, shooting, throwing grenades and it feels like a combat game rather then it used to.
2) Much more fast paced game, deffinately helps the time go by faster, At least imo.
3) The rest of the game has mostly stayed the same except for below
Reasons it's bad:
1) Creature Handler for the love of pete!!! This one reason alone almost made me leave and never come back. I want my pets back
2) Crafting at least to what i've seen is just not fun and engrossing anymore, but I am still trying it out.
3) I've heard that most of the other non-combat proffesions aren't very good either, but time will tell.
Now, while I deffinately think in alot of ways SOE took a step back in progression, the game is still very playable and loads of fun. Just give me back my creature handler and I'll be happy
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by Shayde You are in the minority. 80% of the players hated it, but they launched it. Of those who stayed, a majority tolerated the CU. I'm just goddamn tired of these noobs coming in here and telling those who put 2 years of work and sweat into a game we loved have "ruined it". Sorry knobs... we aren't doing the coding. And not once in two years has SOE even asked for our opinions. When we GAVE then our opinions they ignored them. We told them how to fix things, and they did something different.. TWICE. But you know what our error was? Sticking around. Feeding the beast 15 bucks a months, so they thought they were doing us right. Giving them champaign dreams of becoming a dumbed down WoW and keeping their vets. Didn't happen. Won't happen.I know there were people that didn't like the CU, but how did you come up with 80%?
Every daily poll up to the release of the CU was 80% hated. Not disliked.. hated. The petitions.. the protests. Those that stayed adapted, because they love the game, not the system.
It's over.
Fool me once shame on you.. fool me twice, shame on me.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Segurant I will say this. SWG is more enjoyable if you start a new character and not "respec" your character.
That's because they added content up until you're level 30. After that, you're screwed.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Every daily poll up to the release of the CU was 80% hated. Not disliked.. hated. The petitions.. the protests. Those that stayed adapted, because they love the game, not the system. It's over. Fool me once shame on you.. fool me twice, shame on me.
Again, most likely 80% of those going to the forums are people who don't like the game in the first place while only representing 10% of the population. Poll Statistics are never accurate...well almost never. I imagine those who Hated the CU was probably more around 10% of the population, with around 30% disliking it, while the rest enjoyed the fix.
I never said that SOE was right, that they are smart, or that they even know what they are doing.
Sure they're smart. In a Baron Harkonnen sort of way.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Originally posted by Shayde You are in the minority. 80% of the players hated it, but they launched it. Of those who stayed, a majority tolerated the CU. I'm just goddamn tired of these noobs coming in here and telling those who put 2 years of work and sweat into a game we loved have "ruined it". Sorry knobs... we aren't doing the coding. And not once in two years has SOE even asked for our opinions. When we GAVE then our opinions they ignored them. We told them how to fix things, and they did something different.. TWICE. But you know what our error was? Sticking around. Feeding the beast 15 bucks a months, so they thought they were doing us right. Giving them champaign dreams of becoming a dumbed down WoW and keeping their vets. Didn't happen. Won't happen. I know there were people that didn't like the CU, but how did you come up with 80%?
Every daily poll up to the release of the CU was 80% hated. Not disliked.. hated. The petitions.. the protests. Those that stayed adapted, because they love the game, not the system.
It's over.
Fool me once shame on you.. fool me twice, shame on me.
Please don't tell me you took those polls as the truth? I knew plenty of people that didn't even try the CU on TC and just voted negatively on the forums. I also knew plenty of people who liked the CU and didn't even vote on the polls. Most people in the game DON'T post on the forums, you can't take your stats from the forums, they'll never be accurate.
mauri66 on gamespot wrote this little peice of information:
Don't believe the NGE-haters! The game is the "Star Warsy-est" it has ever been. I re-opened 2 closed accts for the NGE.
From the moment you enter the starter tutorial and Han Solo beckons you to follow him and Chewie onto the Millenium Falcon, you know that NGE has transformed SWG into the game it should have been from the start. Professions are finally balanced. There is no longer a "super" profession that is twice as powerful as a "normal" profession -- so combat is fair and is now based on hand-eye coordination skill and NOT on overpowered weapons or who programmed the best combat macro.
The problem with the pre-NGE game was that there was the existence of the "super" profession that bullied the rest of the game population. Now that the super profession has been balanced to be equal to the other classes, there are no longer bullies who run around in-game and bully those who are weaker. IMO, these bullies that were twice as powerful were the reason why SWG was on a 2 year decline.
To be fair, the reason why the NGE-hater game vets who give this a negative rating is because they had invested a long time into acquiring this super class that bullied the population (some up to two years). When you think about it, it's sort of like working hard for two years to pay monthly payments on a Ferrari that can outspeed every car on the road, and then at the beginning of the third year your Ferrari is taken away and you are given a Honda. This is SOE's only fault -- they failed to take into account the notion of equity that players associated with their virtual property. It's just a game. SOE treated it like it was just a game, but the vets who are upset are upset because it's not just a game to them -- it's a lifestyle. However, this is just a small minority of gamers. If you're like me and play games to have fun, AND you're a Star Wars fan, then you'll LOVE the new SWG.
Give it a spin for a month or two. It's the cheapest form of fun entertainment you'll find!
what super class is he talking about?? jedi? pre CU post CU a master tailor could kill a jedi lower then knight.
wisked away! i had two accounts! give me a break..
my experience with the NGE is tha tthe fram rate is locked at 18fps things jump around and the colision detection is among the worst i saw! what nge is he talking about?? does lucas - soe pay people to post on these boards?
I also love the way he wrote the NEW stg, there's really nothing new they havent totally borked its the same old game but now you have to have 3 arms to play it!
i just noticed tis to the professions are now balanced? lol lol lol is this a troll?
forced grouping? well sorta either that or just open your pokewars ball and call picograul or pull a atst out.. some professions had to group to a extent but most people could be a full master commando and have i believe a bull rancor . i remeber this game in all stages 1- pokewars then 2 - Commando wars 3 - then everyone became tkm! then buffwars then everyone taking a melee profession
i felt like i was playing everquest will all the hammers and swords not starwars basically because melee did alot more damage then ranged did except for rifleman.
the list goes on right up too the CU!
i dont think a vet around asked for any of these changes there where some whiners but the majority of people i played with where happy with whatever profession of the month soe gave them. between all that they kept on implementing broken publishes that they never could seem to get right..
I don't see why they couldn't have kept the old 3rd person view and cursor. We could have aimed with it and stuff. (you know, the one were you point at something and hit alt to get mouse mode) I get headaches now because of the camera system in place, that or the speed decrease.
Originally posted by sidebuster I don't see why they couldn't have kept the old 3rd person view and cursor. We could have aimed with it and stuff. (you know, the one were you point at something and hit alt to get mouse mode) I get headaches now because of the camera system in place, that or the speed decrease.
Um...there is a 3rd person view ...did you mean Overhead view? 3rd person is quite nice imo.
I think the SOE fanbois are forgetting a few important facts when discussing the NGE.
First and foremost, SWG announced this NGE right after launching a new expansion. Why? So they could try and muscle people out of the money while they could, as they had to anticipate some rebellion. Now they are offering a refund for ToOW. To the fanboi who thinks that the person was wrong that stores wouldn't carry it, he was half-right. Indeed it was only a digital download, but supply and demand mandated it be a digital download, as stores would not carry it. Many stores didn't keep huge stocks of SWG as it was.
Second, the expansion offered rewards that in a week or two would be useless. CH necklace anyone? What about the promised revamps to ranger and CH? The devs were announcing these revamps, knowing that in reality they would not occur. A spy is not a ranger. Rangers were always a small profession, and those who were master rangers were proud of that fact. I was one of them Pre-CU, and a bit post-CU. Made quite a bit of money on Dajoka.
Third, the playerbase was kept entirely in the dark about this. At least with the CU, people knew it was coming. Not so with the NGE.
Fourth, the issue with Jedi. I opposed Jedi entering the game. I said Publish 9 would ruin the game as everyone would be a jedi. But even with my vehement opposition to them, they got shafted. All that work those people put into being a jedi is now USELESS, as anyone can start a jedi and level rather quickly. Also, people with 4th gen sabers were essentially told once the NGE hit, they had to level up 5 times before they could even use them. With the price of all the stuff going into a 4th gen saber, that is outrageous. Furthermore, with everyone getting a second account for free, those jedis who already had one, get no incentive. Moreso, a Jedi is not supposed to be equal to everyone else. A Jedi is supposed to be powerful. They just had to balance it correctly with everyone else so they weren't either too powerful, or too weak. For a game that is claiming it is more star wars, the concept all jedis are equal with everyone else essentially is bogus.
How about no more player bounty hunting? One of the biggest joys of people being an MBH was the ability to track down players. They provided far more excitement than spamming an NPC. Many BH's made a huge name for themselves being honorable and respectable PvP'ers. Men on Eclipse like Mastro and Andros. While they had insane weapons at times, also many times they didn't need them because of their tactics. They used stealth and wits to hunt their prey, and became legendary for it. Those guys got the shaft, as did every proud master bounty hunter.
Finally, there is the classification of game. SWG was an mmoRPG. an RPG is not an FPS. most people play RPG's because they like the tactics and decisions involved instead of just holding down a button. I had heard the CU was supposed to do away with just spamming one button. Furthermore, as far as PvP went, spamming one special was a surefire way to get yourself killed against someone who knew what they were doing. I used to love taking out MCM/Master Rifleman FOTM's. I would take it out with my toon who was one (but who knew more than mind poison headshot 3), and with my melee toon. Dajoka as a master swordman jedi was able to PvP superbly against Jedi and your fotm cm's.
Why won't SOE be honest? "We originally thought we could balance the professions with the CU, but we realize the CU was a failure, so we are trying something different." While some liked the CU, if you took a travel through towns and out in the open, you saw harvesting fields condemned left and right, big cities turning into ghost towns, and once prominent guilds being small groups. The NGE is only going to make things worse in that respect.
If one likes the game that's fine. Yet why is it the only way to promote the changes in the NGE do people have to demonize the vets and others while doing so?
I may not have played in the the pre-pub 9 or pre-pub 10 era but I did play pub 10 and I know what it was like pre-CU. I had a full melee temp (TKM/Mswords/4xxx Fencer/xx4x Pikeman) and was almost done with the village when the CU came round. Matter of fact I had just finished my 5th unlock (phase 3 commander quest) 20 min before the servers went down for the CU pub. So I have some experience of what things were like pre-CU.
You didn't have to group if you had a double master. Even if buffs weren't around I could still solo anything in the game. Having a buff just meant I didn't have to be careful around MOBs that aggro'd.
So let me ask you, how exactly did the vets whining create invincibility buffs, 80% resist armor, solo groups and the hologrind. I could solo anything in the game and often used solo groups to grind for the village (no I didn't nade baz nitch lairs). Sure early on I went on group hunts cause my toon was weak and I didn't know what I was doing. Later grouping kind of sucked cause I was doing most of the damage but had to share xp and creds. Which is why people came up with solo grouping to begin with. When I first started solo grouping you could get all the xp and all the creds from the missions so running Rancors off Dath was nice when you needed cash cause they were going for like over $25k each. Next you seem to forget that there were people doing the hologrind who only had to unlock 5 holo professions where others had to do the 32 max so the village came into the picture to make it fair. I'm not sure where and how buffs came into being but I wouldn't have had a problem doing without them if that meant we could have kept the pre-cu game. Uber armor came from people figuring out how to manipulate the system with the best resources, the best armor exp tapes and the right foods. It was a process of learning on the part of the AS community that gave us killer armor.
There were things wrong with the pre-CU system that needed fixing for sure. People were fight clubbing to jump up in the FRS. BH/Jedi griefing (never got this one cause I always loved it when BH came for me). TKM godliness (why I choose TKM) and other un-balanced combat professions. These were some of the things that brought the CU, not whinning but legitimate issues. I think the CU was the wrong solution but I was willing to live with it. NGE is not a solution it's a cop out it's a "we give up" statement or a "you win WOW" statement. I agree with you that the product they had originally was revolutionary and unique. It's sad to see that SOE/LA didn't have the sack to stay the course. But to say that the vet whiners created this situation is ignorant. If they were willing to listen to a handful of whiners then why weren't they willing to listen to those hundreds that posted against the CU or the NGE. Or those vets that were honestly trying to give feedback in the bug forums. They didn't care about anything the community wanted all they cared about was the feedback they got from their focus groups. And those groups didn't include players.
I can't speak for all communities, but I know on Eclipse, many of the people angry about the uber armor and buffs happened to be veterans. A lot of your crafters liked being able to do it, as they found out how, and the market responded. most the time niblets would get flamed by the veterans, as they would go "we'd love to see you try that without armor like we used to have to." Heck I remember walking to Anchorhead only to get pwned by squalls when we didn't have armor.
If anything, it was the "I'm gonna pwn j00 with me 1337 PvP skillzorz" people who loved most the increase in armor, jedi jedi everywhere, etc. Most your respectable vets couldn't stand it. the l33t people are the ones if you wanna blame someone for stuff like that.
Originally posted by Shayde The TRUE veterans were the ones who enjoyed the pre-cu days. Who tried to make the game more enjoyable with player events and other gatherings. They were the ones who quietly played since launch and had a great time. The ones who gave constuctive feedback, and had multiple accounts.
So basically you're saying that the true veterans are the dot-stickers and the hologrinders that took the game from a thriving metropolis to a smoldering wasteland?
I've played on and off. I helped run a town. I did my best to have fun and help others to have fun, and i'm getting tired of this crap about "veterans". My character is from september 2003. It was a buggy mess then. It was a buggy mess last fall, and it's a buggy mess now. Does that mean I don't have fun with it? No, it's fun. Even post-NGE it's fun, and after you get over the shock of it having straight levels and 9 professions instead of 30-something, and having to click... it's the same damn game. Granted it's buggy as all get out and you run too damn fast, but it's still the same and will be even more the same after they balance it all out.
It may look the same and smell the same but it doesn't taste the same. Mixing professions was one of the most amazing things about the game. Everyone could create a unique character. Jedi were rare and special now they're weak and ordinary. The economy was diverse and booming now it's limited and stale. Combat was challenging and immersive now its mindless.
I know many who Have said Jedi was the death of the game and all that was wrong with it. The possibility of being Jedi is what draws people to the game. The wouldn't have made if a starting profession if this wasn't true. Having an alpha class that people can aspire to and work towards is a good thing. Don't tell me it's not fair because everyone had the same chance that I did to become a Jedi. The reason it needs to be hard is to make it special and the reason it needs to be special is so there aren't too many and that those that reach it feel they've really accomplished something. Those that complain about Jedi did so cause they wanted one but didn't want to do the work to get it. That being said there were melee stackers that could take me out no problem. But they had the right armor, weapon, CA's and tactics. Having an alpha class is not a problem it's an incentive for those that have the dream and want to keep pursuing it. Were there Jedi that were 1337 I pwn joo knuckleheads, sure. But most of the Jedi I PVP'ed with and against were honorable. Jedi are supposed to be tough hombres anyway not balanced with all other professions.
For whoever said you can run and shoot now, FYI, you could run and shoot before the NGE and although combat may seem faster paced you're doing less damage and it takes just as long or longer to bring em down.
Another thing, if they wanted something more Star Warsy then all they had to do was add the content not create a complete revamp of the game.
Originally posted by Jheron It may look the same and smell the same but it doesn't taste the same. Mixing professions was one of the most amazing things about the game. Everyone could create a unique character. Jedi were rare and special now they're weak and ordinary. The economy was diverse and booming now it's limited and stale. Combat was challenging and immersive now its mindless. I know many who Have said Jedi was the death of the game and all that was wrong with it. The possibility of being Jedi is what draws people to the game. The wouldn't have made if a starting profession if this wasn't true. Having an alpha class that people can aspire to and work towards is a good thing. Don't tell me it's not fair because everyone had the same chance that I did to become a Jedi. The reason it needs to be hard is to make it special and the reason it needs to be special is so there aren't too many and that those that reach it feel they've really accomplished something. Those that complain about Jedi did so cause they wanted one but didn't want to do the work to get it. That being said there were melee stackers that could take me out no problem. But they had the right armor, weapon, CA's and tactics. Having an alpha class is not a problem it's an incentive for those that have the dream and want to keep pursuing it. Were there Jedi that were 1337 I pwn joo knuckleheads, sure. But most of the Jedi I PVP'ed with and against were honorable. Jedi are supposed to be tough hombres anyway not balanced with all other professions. For whoever said you can run and shoot now, FYI, you could run and shoot before the NGE and although combat may seem faster paced you're doing less damage and it takes just as long or longer to bring em down. Another thing, if they wanted something more Star Warsy then all they had to do was add the content not create a complete revamp of the game.
That's true to a point. Your pre publish 9 non jebay jedis and maybe the beginning of pub 9 were honorable ones. (Those who didn't nade lairs to powerlevel.) I despied the jedi in the game, though had no desire to be a jedi. Though when they were a rarity, when tiberon and atlantis were the only jedis pvping on eclipse, I had no problem with it. It used to be an honor to meet a Jedi. Our guild leader obtained Jedi Knight status back when Jedi were rare, and it was really something. When SK went into battle, we took pride in the fact that we would have a Jedi leading our flank.
The l33t speakers ruined it for the honorable jedi.
That's true to a point. Your pre publish 9 non jebay jedis and maybe the beginning of pub 9 were honorable ones. (Those who didn't nade lairs to powerlevel.) I despied the jedi in the game, though had no desire to be a jedi. Though when they were a rarity, when tiberon and atlantis were the only jedis pvping on eclipse, I had no problem with it. It used to be an honor to meet a Jedi. Our guild leader obtained Jedi Knight status back when Jedi were rare, and it was really something. When SK went into battle, we took pride in the fact that we would have a Jedi leading our flank. The l33t speakers ruined it for the honorable jedi.
Im also from eclipse and bet you never even heard of me lol. I was roughly the 6th jedi to unlock on eclipse back when there was an announcement all over the servers. My jedi was played correctly for the timeline. My toon was called Thunderbolt and if you ever saw me you'd notice no title and no robes worn. I never pvp in front of SP and never made myself obvious. For those respectful BH that hunted to me and lost (they always did, i was unbeaten), I ended up tipping them my bounty as a show of respect.
My house was on Rori (mostly because nobody goes there) waaaaaaaayyy out in the middle of nowhere. I rarely ever used SP in major towns to avoid detection. I frequently ran up to help another player in trouble with a mob, made a quick salute and ran off. I hung out a lot in cantinas just to be social with entertainers and to tip them for making the game a better place.
I tried to remind other jedi in a rp fashion that we should remain in hiding until the emperor was dead and the sith were no more...Alas that statement usually got flamed or confused replies. I dont think half the jedi I ran into even knew what a sith was.
I miss my alt Icebolt too, very well known Droid Engineer on eclipse. Those days are forever gone now.
I just hope another mmorpg will eventually come along with real crafting.
I despied the jedi in the game, though had no desire to be a jedi.
It's unfortunate that you felt that way. I'm guessing one too many of the 1337's rubbed you the wrong way. But you know, once the CU hit there were BH everywhere. People used to say half the players are Jedi. I'm not saying there weren't a lot around, it seems that there was an explosion of them right around the time I went Jedi. But even then there were way more BH then there were Jedi, way more. I know cause when I went Jedi I had to keep an eye on all of them so I wouldn't get ganked with my pants down. I had to pay attention to them all the time. And I have to say that I killed my fair share of BH. I had more than 15 rung up when I left. And many of them were trash talking idiots. But most were professional. So I'm not gonna say that I hated BH even though some of them were real jerks. My point is don't hate Jedi cause some of us were jerks. Many of us were nice guys who actually worked to get to Jedi.
Originally posted by admriker444 That's true to a point. Your pre publish 9 non jebay jedis and maybe the beginning of pub 9 were honorable ones. (Those who didn't nade lairs to powerlevel.) I despied the jedi in the game, though had no desire to be a jedi. Though when they were a rarity, when tiberon and atlantis were the only jedis pvping on eclipse, I had no problem with it. It used to be an honor to meet a Jedi. Our guild leader obtained Jedi Knight status back when Jedi were rare, and it was really something. When SK went into battle, we took pride in the fact that we would have a Jedi leading our flank. The l33t speakers ruined it for the honorable jedi.
Im also from eclipse and bet you never even heard of me lol. I was roughly the 6th jedi to unlock on eclipse back when there was an announcement all over the servers. My jedi was played correctly for the timeline. My toon was called Thunderbolt and if you ever saw me you'd notice no title and no robes worn. I never pvp in front of SP and never made myself obvious. For those respectful BH that hunted to me and lost (they always did, i was unbeaten), I ended up tipping them my bounty as a show of respect. My house was on Rori (mostly because nobody goes there) waaaaaaaayyy out in the middle of nowhere. I rarely ever used SP in major towns to avoid detection. I frequently ran up to help another player in trouble with a mob, made a quick salute and ran off. I hung out a lot in cantinas just to be social with entertainers and to tip them for making the game a better place. I tried to remind other jedi in a rp fashion that we should remain in hiding until the emperor was dead and the sith were no more...Alas that statement usually got flamed or confused replies. I dont think half the jedi I ran into even knew what a sith was. I miss my alt Icebolt too, very well known Droid Engineer on eclipse. Those days are forever gone now. I just hope another mmorpg will eventually come along with real crafting.
Then you were an honorable Jedi. I think everyone should salute you. I do remember Icebolt, saw some of his stuff. We had Ryaana in our guild as the DE, so bought stuff from her, but do remember the name.
Originally posted by Jheron I despied the jedi in the game, though had no desire to be a jedi. It's unfortunate that you felt that way. I'm guessing one too many of the 1337's rubbed you the wrong way. But you know, once the CU hit there were BH everywhere. People used to say half the players are Jedi. I'm not saying there weren't a lot around, it seems that there was an explosion of them right around the time I went Jedi. But even then there were way more BH then there were Jedi, way more. I know cause when I went Jedi I had to keep an eye on all of them so I wouldn't get ganked with my pants down. I had to pay attention to them all the time. And I have to say that I killed my fair share of BH. I had more than 15 rung up when I left. And many of them were trash talking idiots. But most were professional. So I'm not gonna say that I hated BH even though some of them were real jerks. My point is don't hate Jedi cause some of us were jerks. Many of us were nice guys who actually worked to get to Jedi.
I knew a lot of respectable Jedi. Even rebel ones, if they had a BH gank squad of 1 bh and 5 cm's come after them I always told me to group me so I could assist them. In fact, BH gank squads were for the most part banned in SK, unless the person was an FRS farmer, then I just liked making them lose their precious FRS. If a BH came after one of our Jedis, and I was online, if it was a one on one fight and someone joined in, they caught my wrath as I told them to let it remain one on one. A few honorable BH's even joined SK, as did a few honorable Jedis for the respect they were shown.
But yes, one too many l33t speakers rubbed me the wrong way. A pretty popular tactic on Eclipse was for them to gank new players, attempting to extort them out of credits to so they wouldn't corpse camp them. Anytime one of those jedis made that cash, I placed a bounty on their heads, had one of our special BH's collect that bounty (two of the deadliest bh's on eclipse), and then I found that new player and tipped him back his money.
In short, if there were ever honorable jedis, I always tried looking out for them, as they needed to make themselves known to prevent having a reputation as the @sshat profession.
Originally posted by starman999 They could never just be happy to have a game that didnt involve elves and wizards. Always finding the negative aspects of every positive instead of providing good unbiased feedback. Every leet wannabe should be dragged down the street and shot for asking for higher buffs and better armor and cries for jedihood....
Lol, I'm sure Star Wars had no draw to the game whatsoever. Most of the people that I played with who left for other games, reluctantly did so just because the other games were about Elves and Orcs.
Pre-CU I rarely saw posters asking for higher buffs and armor. The community that I played with wanted an environment similar to the first few months of the game, before everyone discovered 90% composite and buffs.
As for Jedi, that continues to be the #1 reason that I've personally found why players left the game. Ridding the game of Jedi, or at least controlling them more effectively, was mostly likely one of the top complaints. Did SOE/LA listen to them? Obviously not, Jedi are now a starter profession in the NGE.
With the NGE, it's obvious that the only community that SOE/LA is listening to is the current market (read World of Warcraft). They designed the game to be more in line with other games in hopes of attracting the big 4+ million-subscriber base. I can't really blame them, but Moses did they screw over their vets doing so.
I'm always one for critical thinking. Ask yourself this. Why did people really dislike having Jedi in the game? The response I usually get is.."it doesn't belong in the timeline," Well neither did CH and probably a load of other professions and it's not like the majority of the community was RP anyways. I could understand the complaints against Jedi not belonging in the game because of timeline issues if people RP.
Originally posted by Segurant I will say this. SWG is more enjoyable if you start a new character and not "respec" your character.
From what i've read on the forums this is mostly true. From the majority of the people complaining on the forums, they have respecced and are finding many horrible issues with it. I frankly am glad people will have to start over. I was tired of seeing ADk's for outrageous prices and many other things so expensive that only the richest could afford it. That created a huge imbalance amoungst the community in itself. Most are complaining about all the worthless gear they have that they spent millions of credits on. I just laugh because now they know how it feels to be equal with the rest of the community and won't run their mouths so often.
Originally posted by eirek So you think your in the right because the average review on gamespot is a 1? Lol, even I know almost no game could receive a 1, right there it just tells me you have a bunch a veterans that are pissed, nothing more. Just because you can't macro kill everything now doesn't mean you need to keep whining, you should know by now SOE doesn't change stuff just because there customers say so :P Turn the safety on your gun off, and let people enjoy this new console style, nobody cares about how much you liked it before and how they killed it....as long as it is STILL FUN is whay people are wanting to know...and yes it is. And while I'm really confused with the whole crafting revamp, I will say I totally love the new combat...and please, please, please play the go* damn game before you say that all your doing is pressing the friggin fire key 100 times a second...HOLD THE FRIGGIN THING DOWN, you dont have to keep clicking/rant off
WOOT! brilliant!! reminds me of 'ol Winter olympics and i've heard i dont need to think around what skills to take....the game does that all now for me!! it was always so hard for me to make a choice: shall i take a bit tkm or ch or pistoleer?? this will surely enhance my gameplay!! i will trespec my crafter into a jedi.....only morons like to craft !!
/sarcasm off i really wnt to resubscribe....i am searching for Pro's,checking posts from people who like it,......
and no,"it is so much fun" isn't a statement that counts for me because it doesn't describe gameplay(-design)-but - before you say that all your doing is pressing the friggin fire key 100 times a second...HOLD THE FRIGGIN THING DOWN, you dont have to keep clicking... -actually seems to describe gameplay
And while I'm really confused with the whole crafting revamp- fine...this guy actually understands combat(...HOLD THE FRIGGIN THING DOWN) ,but seems to be a little ...eh...overwhelmed by crafting.
...here are really 2 types of player clashing against each other,i don't think there will ever be a consensus.don't want to tell somebody what to like or not to like,this guy has won and gotten what he wants,its really time to forget about swg,it just isn't worth.
its just interesting that the "lovers" of these changes have no clue about other player-types.-its this "not to be able to understand" that is a real annoyance.(and to get accused to have quit because of the "i win button" and such nonsens)
Comments
I will say this. SWG is more enjoyable if you start a new character and not "respec" your character.
I never said that SOE was right, that they are smart, or that they even know what they are doing. My whole point with my OP was this: Gamespot at this moment does not represent the game...nor does the forums...nor does just about anything else right now.
History has shown that whiners, and complainers(Not neccesarly bad) speak out more then the pro-anything group. For Example; World Of Warcraft.....From the look on the forums there most of the time you would think the game was an utter mess but guess what? It's one of the most well made games imo. It might not be your cup of tea or mine, but it deffinately is well made.
Just stop saying IT SUXXORS DEWB!! Why don't you list reasons like an adult should.
Reasons it's good:
1) Combat is more immersing now, I can now run around, shooting, throwing grenades and it feels like a combat game rather then it used to.
2) Much more fast paced game, deffinately helps the time go by faster, At least imo.
3) The rest of the game has mostly stayed the same except for below
Reasons it's bad:
1) Creature Handler for the love of pete!!! This one reason alone almost made me leave and never come back. I want my pets back
2) Crafting at least to what i've seen is just not fun and engrossing anymore, but I am still trying it out.
3) I've heard that most of the other non-combat proffesions aren't very good either, but time will tell.
Now, while I deffinately think in alot of ways SOE took a step back in progression, the game is still very playable and loads of fun. Just give me back my creature handler and I'll be happy
Every daily poll up to the release of the CU was 80% hated. Not disliked.. hated. The petitions.. the protests. Those that stayed adapted, because they love the game, not the system.
It's over.
Fool me once shame on you.. fool me twice, shame on me.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
That's because they added content up until you're level 30. After that, you're screwed.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Again, most likely 80% of those going to the forums are people who don't like the game in the first place while only representing 10% of the population. Poll Statistics are never accurate...well almost never. I imagine those who Hated the CU was probably more around 10% of the population, with around 30% disliking it, while the rest enjoyed the fix.
Sure they're smart. In a Baron Harkonnen sort of way.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Every daily poll up to the release of the CU was 80% hated. Not disliked.. hated. The petitions.. the protests. Those that stayed adapted, because they love the game, not the system.
It's over.
Fool me once shame on you.. fool me twice, shame on me.
Please don't tell me you took those polls as the truth? I knew plenty of people that didn't even try the CU on TC and just voted negatively on the forums. I also knew plenty of people who liked the CU and didn't even vote on the polls. Most people in the game DON'T post on the forums, you can't take your stats from the forums, they'll never be accurate.
The problem with the pre-NGE game was that there was the existence of the "super" profession that bullied the rest of the game population. Now that the super profession has been balanced to be equal to the other classes, there are no longer bullies who run around in-game and bully those who are weaker. IMO, these bullies that were twice as powerful were the reason why SWG was on a 2 year decline.
To be fair, the reason why the NGE-hater game vets who give this a negative rating is because they had invested a long time into acquiring this super class that bullied the population (some up to two years). When you think about it, it's sort of like working hard for two years to pay monthly payments on a Ferrari that can outspeed every car on the road, and then at the beginning of the third year your Ferrari is taken away and you are given a Honda. This is SOE's only fault -- they failed to take into account the notion of equity that players associated with their virtual property. It's just a game. SOE treated it like it was just a game, but the vets who are upset are upset because it's not just a game to them -- it's a lifestyle. However, this is just a small minority of gamers. If you're like me and play games to have fun, AND you're a Star Wars fan, then you'll LOVE the new SWG.
Give it a spin for a month or two. It's the cheapest form of fun entertainment you'll find!
forced grouping? well sorta either that or just open your pokewars ball and call picograul or pull a atst out.. some professions had to group to a extent but most people could be a full master commando and have i believe a bull rancor . i remeber this game in all stages 1- pokewars then 2 - Commando wars 3 - then everyone became tkm! then buffwars then everyone taking a melee profession
i felt like i was playing everquest will all the hammers and swords not starwars basically because melee did alot more damage then ranged did except for rifleman.
the list goes on right up too the CU!
i dont think a vet around asked for any of these changes there where some whiners but the majority of people i played with where happy with whatever profession of the month soe gave them. between all that they kept on implementing broken publishes that they never could seem to get right..
bah i could go on.. Grrr lol
I think the SOE fanbois are forgetting a few important facts when discussing the NGE.
First and foremost, SWG announced this NGE right after launching a new expansion. Why? So they could try and muscle people out of the money while they could, as they had to anticipate some rebellion. Now they are offering a refund for ToOW. To the fanboi who thinks that the person was wrong that stores wouldn't carry it, he was half-right. Indeed it was only a digital download, but supply and demand mandated it be a digital download, as stores would not carry it. Many stores didn't keep huge stocks of SWG as it was.
Second, the expansion offered rewards that in a week or two would be useless. CH necklace anyone? What about the promised revamps to ranger and CH? The devs were announcing these revamps, knowing that in reality they would not occur. A spy is not a ranger. Rangers were always a small profession, and those who were master rangers were proud of that fact. I was one of them Pre-CU, and a bit post-CU. Made quite a bit of money on Dajoka.
Third, the playerbase was kept entirely in the dark about this. At least with the CU, people knew it was coming. Not so with the NGE.
Fourth, the issue with Jedi. I opposed Jedi entering the game. I said Publish 9 would ruin the game as everyone would be a jedi. But even with my vehement opposition to them, they got shafted. All that work those people put into being a jedi is now USELESS, as anyone can start a jedi and level rather quickly. Also, people with 4th gen sabers were essentially told once the NGE hit, they had to level up 5 times before they could even use them. With the price of all the stuff going into a 4th gen saber, that is outrageous. Furthermore, with everyone getting a second account for free, those jedis who already had one, get no incentive. Moreso, a Jedi is not supposed to be equal to everyone else. A Jedi is supposed to be powerful. They just had to balance it correctly with everyone else so they weren't either too powerful, or too weak. For a game that is claiming it is more star wars, the concept all jedis are equal with everyone else essentially is bogus.
How about no more player bounty hunting? One of the biggest joys of people being an MBH was the ability to track down players. They provided far more excitement than spamming an NPC. Many BH's made a huge name for themselves being honorable and respectable PvP'ers. Men on Eclipse like Mastro and Andros. While they had insane weapons at times, also many times they didn't need them because of their tactics. They used stealth and wits to hunt their prey, and became legendary for it. Those guys got the shaft, as did every proud master bounty hunter.
Finally, there is the classification of game. SWG was an mmoRPG. an RPG is not an FPS. most people play RPG's because they like the tactics and decisions involved instead of just holding down a button. I had heard the CU was supposed to do away with just spamming one button. Furthermore, as far as PvP went, spamming one special was a surefire way to get yourself killed against someone who knew what they were doing. I used to love taking out MCM/Master Rifleman FOTM's. I would take it out with my toon who was one (but who knew more than mind poison headshot 3), and with my melee toon. Dajoka as a master swordman jedi was able to PvP superbly against Jedi and your fotm cm's.
Why won't SOE be honest? "We originally thought we could balance the professions with the CU, but we realize the CU was a failure, so we are trying something different." While some liked the CU, if you took a travel through towns and out in the open, you saw harvesting fields condemned left and right, big cities turning into ghost towns, and once prominent guilds being small groups. The NGE is only going to make things worse in that respect.
If one likes the game that's fine. Yet why is it the only way to promote the changes in the NGE do people have to demonize the vets and others while doing so?
Starman...
I may not have played in the the pre-pub 9 or pre-pub 10 era but I did play pub 10 and I know what it was like pre-CU. I had a full melee temp (TKM/Mswords/4xxx Fencer/xx4x Pikeman) and was almost done with the village when the CU came round. Matter of fact I had just finished my 5th unlock (phase 3 commander quest) 20 min before the servers went down for the CU pub. So I have some experience of what things were like pre-CU.
You didn't have to group if you had a double master. Even if buffs weren't around I could still solo anything in the game. Having a buff just meant I didn't have to be careful around MOBs that aggro'd.
So let me ask you, how exactly did the vets whining create invincibility buffs, 80% resist armor, solo groups and the hologrind. I could solo anything in the game and often used solo groups to grind for the village (no I didn't nade baz nitch lairs). Sure early on I went on group hunts cause my toon was weak and I didn't know what I was doing. Later grouping kind of sucked cause I was doing most of the damage but had to share xp and creds. Which is why people came up with solo grouping to begin with. When I first started solo grouping you could get all the xp and all the creds from the missions so running Rancors off Dath was nice when you needed cash cause they were going for like over $25k each. Next you seem to forget that there were people doing the hologrind who only had to unlock 5 holo professions where others had to do the 32 max so the village came into the picture to make it fair. I'm not sure where and how buffs came into being but I wouldn't have had a problem doing without them if that meant we could have kept the pre-cu game. Uber armor came from people figuring out how to manipulate the system with the best resources, the best armor exp tapes and the right foods. It was a process of learning on the part of the AS community that gave us killer armor.
There were things wrong with the pre-CU system that needed fixing for sure. People were fight clubbing to jump up in the FRS. BH/Jedi griefing (never got this one cause I always loved it when BH came for me). TKM godliness (why I choose TKM) and other un-balanced combat professions. These were some of the things that brought the CU, not whinning but legitimate issues. I think the CU was the wrong solution but I was willing to live with it. NGE is not a solution it's a cop out it's a "we give up" statement or a "you win WOW" statement. I agree with you that the product they had originally was revolutionary and unique. It's sad to see that SOE/LA didn't have the sack to stay the course. But to say that the vet whiners created this situation is ignorant. If they were willing to listen to a handful of whiners then why weren't they willing to listen to those hundreds that posted against the CU or the NGE. Or those vets that were honestly trying to give feedback in the bug forums. They didn't care about anything the community wanted all they cared about was the feedback they got from their focus groups. And those groups didn't include players.
I can't speak for all communities, but I know on Eclipse, many of the people angry about the uber armor and buffs happened to be veterans. A lot of your crafters liked being able to do it, as they found out how, and the market responded. most the time niblets would get flamed by the veterans, as they would go "we'd love to see you try that without armor like we used to have to." Heck I remember walking to Anchorhead only to get pwned by squalls when we didn't have armor.
If anything, it was the "I'm gonna pwn j00 with me 1337 PvP skillzorz" people who loved most the increase in armor, jedi jedi everywhere, etc. Most your respectable vets couldn't stand it. the l33t people are the ones if you wanna blame someone for stuff like that.
So basically you're saying that the true veterans are the dot-stickers and the hologrinders that took the game from a thriving metropolis to a smoldering wasteland?
I've played on and off. I helped run a town. I did my best to have fun and help others to have fun, and i'm getting tired of this crap about "veterans". My character is from september 2003. It was a buggy mess then. It was a buggy mess last fall, and it's a buggy mess now. Does that mean I don't have fun with it? No, it's fun. Even post-NGE it's fun, and after you get over the shock of it having straight levels and 9 professions instead of 30-something, and having to click... it's the same damn game. Granted it's buggy as all get out and you run too damn fast, but it's still the same and will be even more the same after they balance it all out.
It may look the same and smell the same but it doesn't taste the same. Mixing professions was one of the most amazing things about the game. Everyone could create a unique character. Jedi were rare and special now they're weak and ordinary. The economy was diverse and booming now it's limited and stale. Combat was challenging and immersive now its mindless.
I know many who Have said Jedi was the death of the game and all that was wrong with it. The possibility of being Jedi is what draws people to the game. The wouldn't have made if a starting profession if this wasn't true. Having an alpha class that people can aspire to and work towards is a good thing. Don't tell me it's not fair because everyone had the same chance that I did to become a Jedi. The reason it needs to be hard is to make it special and the reason it needs to be special is so there aren't too many and that those that reach it feel they've really accomplished something. Those that complain about Jedi did so cause they wanted one but didn't want to do the work to get it. That being said there were melee stackers that could take me out no problem. But they had the right armor, weapon, CA's and tactics. Having an alpha class is not a problem it's an incentive for those that have the dream and want to keep pursuing it. Were there Jedi that were 1337 I pwn joo knuckleheads, sure. But most of the Jedi I PVP'ed with and against were honorable. Jedi are supposed to be tough hombres anyway not balanced with all other professions.
For whoever said you can run and shoot now, FYI, you could run and shoot before the NGE and although combat may seem faster paced you're doing less damage and it takes just as long or longer to bring em down.
Another thing, if they wanted something more Star Warsy then all they had to do was add the content not create a complete revamp of the game.
That's true to a point. Your pre publish 9 non jebay jedis and maybe the beginning of pub 9 were honorable ones. (Those who didn't nade lairs to powerlevel.) I despied the jedi in the game, though had no desire to be a jedi. Though when they were a rarity, when tiberon and atlantis were the only jedis pvping on eclipse, I had no problem with it. It used to be an honor to meet a Jedi. Our guild leader obtained Jedi Knight status back when Jedi were rare, and it was really something. When SK went into battle, we took pride in the fact that we would have a Jedi leading our flank.
The l33t speakers ruined it for the honorable jedi.
I despied the jedi in the game, though had no desire to be a jedi.
It's unfortunate that you felt that way. I'm guessing one too many of the 1337's rubbed you the wrong way. But you know, once the CU hit there were BH everywhere. People used to say half the players are Jedi. I'm not saying there weren't a lot around, it seems that there was an explosion of them right around the time I went Jedi. But even then there were way more BH then there were Jedi, way more. I know cause when I went Jedi I had to keep an eye on all of them so I wouldn't get ganked with my pants down. I had to pay attention to them all the time. And I have to say that I killed my fair share of BH. I had more than 15 rung up when I left. And many of them were trash talking idiots. But most were professional. So I'm not gonna say that I hated BH even though some of them were real jerks. My point is don't hate Jedi cause some of us were jerks. Many of us were nice guys who actually worked to get to Jedi.
Then you were an honorable Jedi. I think everyone should salute you. I do remember Icebolt, saw some of his stuff. We had Ryaana in our guild as the DE, so bought stuff from her, but do remember the name.
I knew a lot of respectable Jedi. Even rebel ones, if they had a BH gank squad of 1 bh and 5 cm's come after them I always told me to group me so I could assist them. In fact, BH gank squads were for the most part banned in SK, unless the person was an FRS farmer, then I just liked making them lose their precious FRS.
If a BH came after one of our Jedis, and I was online, if it was a one on one fight and someone joined in, they caught my wrath as I told them to let it remain one on one. A few honorable BH's even joined SK, as did a few honorable Jedis for the respect they were shown.
But yes, one too many l33t speakers rubbed me the wrong way.
A pretty popular tactic on Eclipse was for them to gank new players, attempting to extort them out of credits to so they wouldn't corpse camp them. Anytime one of those jedis made that cash, I placed a bounty on their heads, had one of our special BH's collect that bounty (two of the deadliest bh's on eclipse), and then I found that new player and tipped him back his money.
In short, if there were ever honorable jedis, I always tried looking out for them, as they needed to make themselves known to prevent having a reputation as the @sshat profession.
Lol, I'm sure Star Wars had no draw to the game whatsoever. Most of the people that I played with who left for other games, reluctantly did so just because the other games were about Elves and Orcs.
Pre-CU I rarely saw posters asking for higher buffs and armor. The community that I played with wanted an environment similar to the first few months of the game, before everyone discovered 90% composite and buffs.
As for Jedi, that continues to be the #1 reason that I've personally found why players left the game. Ridding the game of Jedi, or at least controlling them more effectively, was mostly likely one of the top complaints. Did SOE/LA listen to them? Obviously not, Jedi are now a starter profession in the NGE.
With the NGE, it's obvious that the only community that SOE/LA is listening to is the current market (read World of Warcraft). They designed the game to be more in line with other games in hopes of attracting the big 4+ million-subscriber base. I can't really blame them, but Moses did they screw over their vets doing so.
I'm always one for critical thinking. Ask yourself this. Why did people really dislike having Jedi in the game? The response I usually get is.."it doesn't belong in the timeline," Well neither did CH and probably a load of other professions and it's not like the majority of the community was RP anyways. I could understand the complaints against Jedi not belonging in the game because of timeline issues if people RP.
WOOT! brilliant!! reminds me of 'ol Winter olympics
and i've heard i dont need to think around what skills to take....the game does that all now for me!! it was always so hard for me to make a choice: shall i take a bit tkm or ch or pistoleer?? this will surely enhance my gameplay!! i will trespec my crafter into a jedi.....only morons like to craft !!
/sarcasm off i really wnt to resubscribe....i am searching for Pro's,checking posts from people who like it,......
and no,"it is so much fun" isn't a statement that counts for me because it doesn't describe gameplay(-design)-but -
before you say that all your doing is pressing the friggin fire key 100 times a second...HOLD THE FRIGGIN THING DOWN, you dont have to keep clicking... -actually seems to describe gameplay
And while I'm really confused with the whole crafting revamp- fine...this guy actually understands combat(...HOLD THE FRIGGIN THING DOWN) ,but seems to be a little ...eh...overwhelmed by crafting.
...here are really 2 types of player clashing against each other,i don't think there will ever be a consensus.don't want to tell somebody what to like or not to like,this guy has won and gotten what he wants,its really time to forget about swg,it just isn't worth.
its just interesting that the "lovers" of these changes have no clue about other player-types.-its this "not to be able to understand" that is a real annoyance.(and to get accused to have quit because of the "i win button" and such nonsens)