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and the word for the day is ....."Shill"
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I dont think they are PAID shills, rather rabid fanboys. Infact, I would say pretty much every rabid fanboy has paid MJ to be one by donating to the kickstarter campaign. Because they have invested thier own money in the game, it takes the rabidity of their fanboyism to a whole new level. (Yes, I may have invented some new words in that sentence)
There is legitimate interest in this game, because apparently it is the game that all of the WTFPWN Full Loot Open World PVP fans have been waiting for. Whether MJ is just telling them what they want to hear to get their money remains to be seen.
The fact that there has been NO ACTUAL WORK completed on the game so far, rather than outlining what they WANT to do, should make anyone suspicious...especially considering what they want to do seems to keep on changing.
Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom
The truth is out there...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbBX6aEzEz8
You do realize that's a story about an employee of a company giving a good review for the companies products. Don't see how that's an example of a shill.
Hi
...Wow.
That IS viral marketing.
And the most groundless speculation :shrug:
This argument has come up for basically every title released in the last couple of years, though.
It's a discussion that's always going to turn out to be pointless. Shill makes for a handy label to hang on a guy that you don't much like, it's so sinister—stir up easily-swayed opposition to both the guy you don't much like, and to EvilCorp, who is clearly out to get us all. Best of all, it doesn't require any kind of proof!
But for labeling purposes, "Poopoohead" is just as effective.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
There have been shills as long as the concept of trading something of value has existed. There will always be shills. Most people know that shills exist by the time they are 12 - 14 years old.
As P.T. Barnum put it "There's a sucker born every minute." Stop being a sucker.
I love how you know what 'most people know' when they hit their teenage years.
Glad to see someone so wise speaking for the entirity of the world.
Hi
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2013/jan/26/fake-reviews-plague-consumer-websites
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/11/yelp-outs-companies-that-pay-for-positive-reviews/
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/are-reviews-youre-reading-bought-paid-966519
http://www.cs.uic.edu/~liub/FBS/fake-reviews.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/suwcharmananderson/2012/08/28/fake-reviews-amazons-rotten-core/
Why is it so hard to read between the lines? You have google at your fingertips use it ffs.
http://chroniclesofthenerds.com/nerdfight/
Y U NO FLIP TABLE?!?!?!
You're welcome.
Most people with sense know.
-that said, as ice has pointed out 'proving' who is a 'shill" and who is a 'fan' and who has a legitimate review and who has a "paid for" review all comes down to pointless speculation.
I have been accused of being a shill (which is pretty funny) for highly promoting and praising a book I had read on a site which blew my mind and I totally loved.
I dont think he has. I love his rehtoric though regarding how many subs he wants and if you don't like his system thanks for looking.
Though I do sincerely believe EA used/uses shills especially for swtor, though they have largely stopped now.
...which is the mindset that allows shills to work on opinion forming sites.
Rule No.1, for me, is believe absolutely no opinion led non checkable 'fact' I read on the internet, ever.
Shrills? Doubtfull, but I am far more worried about the agenda driven trolls who want to see this who project fail. What MJ is doing is threatening to upset the old apple cart on mega publishers having a lock on games. That lock can be the ability to get things funded for $100M+ or advertising to get subscribers in enough numbers to make it financially capable of producing a profit. Then if you look at the internal mechanics of $100M budget games, you realize that this is threatening business interest of those who finance $100M games and those executives who can demand huge sums of money to manage a $100M game development. This also threatens the stock prices of those mega publishers if solo game companies can do it without them which will cause the preceived value of the mega publishers to drop. If you stand back and take a good look the the macro effect of what MJ is doing, a lot of people are hoping to Hell CU is a failure from the start. That's when the trolls are sent in to do their damage to make sure there is it's a failure. Too much money and jobs are at stake if CU succeeds.
Trolls have a easy job, all they have to do is look like a concern MMORPGer and spread FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) as a new thread on web boards and come to the aid of other trolls working with the same agenda.
Then there are the pure trolls. They have no real agenda, they are just simply looking to stir things up for the pure joy of doing so.
Sitting back and looking at the arthor of this thread, I doubt he was a DAoCer in the first place and doubts he has donated or will ever donated to CU kickstarter. As a CU kickstarter backer myself, I'm going to have to wonder all day long now that I have indeed been trolled into replying to this thread...
Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall.
Camelot Unchained's Kickstarter - Warrior Forever
There are long-time posters on this site who are universally pro-[insert title]. Some of them are quite prolific.
But I judge posters on the quality of their writing. If they're getting paid by [inset title] to crank out forum posts all day long, well, grats to them on turning forum addiction into an income. Nice work if you can get it.
Otherwise, they're just fans of a title or a genre or forum talkytalk in general.
Either way, if they're literate and not too much of an arse, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Shills are more likely from the other half of the spectrum.
Giant companies like EA employ them, having numerous titles they push them all. Also employees for games in the crosshairs....DAoC stands to have a lot to lose if CU is a hit.
Keeping new companies and ideas suppressed is much easier than hyping an unproven product or maverick idea.
I think mostly on these forums there are lost of "zealots".
Here is a link I found up in less than 10 seconds, that shows how fast, and inexpensivily, you can find up "support" on the interwebs:
http://twitter-followers-buy.com/buy-instagram-followers/
THIS,
well written
^ so true............ again they are, where not prepared for this. I dont understand why everyone cant accept that as fact. The lack of support past the 1 Million goal clearly shows that.
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
No, I highly doubt anyone is using shills.
Many seasoned gamers realize (and most big game companies) that gamers are generally gullible creatures, and will back just about anything if someone speaks the right words and drugs them with marketing materials.
[mod edit]
Holy cow, I´m sure the "mega publishers" are already pretty scared about the 7000 people who are funding this project!
I bet even Blizzard is already laying off people and cancelling Titan, just in case...
Yes, Mr. Warhammer is threatening "the big guys up there" who formerly gave him the money to make games like Warhammer. Instead he´s getting the money from gamers who invest into "foundational principles", power point slideshows and sales pitches.
I think pulling a Greed Monger will someday be a term to be found in dictionaries.
I don't really agree that what they want to do has kept changing. in fact, they've not changed many things that would have helped the kickstarter. The only thing I've seen change is what they planned to show off during the kickstarter based on complaints from people. There's a fine line between providing what people want and changing though.
That said, I agree with the rest of your post, and I'm a backer. People should be suspicious. I wouldn't back almost any other kickerstarter for the very same reason. There's no real guarantees you'll get what you pay for. The only reason I'm willing to take that risk on this project is that it does promoise all of that WTFPWN Open World RvR that I've been looking for and no other game is aiming for something similar. And I would only expect people of similar interests to be willing to do so.
I do wish some backers would de-personalize things a bit. I also wish that others that seem to take the ideas MJ has come with for this game would take his critisisms less personally and just shake their heads from the sidelines. Pretty hopeless wishes though with any group of people. Especially on the internet.
Part of the reason I trust this project more is because there's no shinny marketting materials. Their project's layout and presentation has been amateurish.
eh? How is that groundless and why isolate it from any other context? We see very similar patterns repeat with every title announced here. People jump on the "it's going to be great" train while others readily jump on "this is going to fail" train (or similar mass transit device). It seems that the most excitement (in these forums) for a game exists when the least is known about it and, as a result, we see a disproportionate number of posts compared to other points in the development cycle.
Not saying that's bad. I mean, it's a forum for MMOs and we're discussing a potential MMO. No harm, no foul. My overall point was that I just don't see how the original concept that "shills" were posting about this game makes much sense given the amount of organic support, and enthusiasm of those supporters, the game aleady has.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I'm surprised it took so long for someone to respond to this guys trolling. If his post isn't worth a 1 day ban.. my non backer = carebear thread shouldn't of cost me a 24 hour ban .. lmao
That's fine, but I've been "date-raped" by MJ twice now (DAoC-ToA, WAR), so a third date isn't likely to happen no matter how much he sweet talks me.
Once I see a working game, I'll decide if we're going to see each other again.