Pre-orders is a consumers distrust in the publisher
Kick starter is a consumers trust in the developer.
I wouldn't trust kick starter so nope i am not in that category. The main reason being that words are cheap Big talks mean nothing in the end when it comes to kick starters. As far as pre order goes i actually test the games before hand and then pre order. I can not do so in kick starters.
I probably wouldn't put significant money into a kickstarter MMO either given that no developer has really demonstrated that they actually know how to make one well. Having said that, other types of games... why wouldn't you? At the very least you're no more likely to end up feeling ripped off than you would be buying a game from the store, even having read reviews beforehand. Can't count the number of times it's happened to me.
I probably wouldn't put significant money into a kickstarter MMO either given that no developer has really demonstrated that they actually know how to make one well. Having said that, other types of games... why wouldn't you? At the very least you're no more likely to end up feeling ripped off than you would be buying a game from the store, even having read reviews beforehand. Can't count the number of times it's happened to me.
I didn't understand what you mean by other type of games?
Originally posted by Everwest I probably wouldn't put significant money into a kickstarter MMO either given that no developer has really demonstrated that they actually know how to make one well. Having said that, other types of games... why wouldn't you? At the very least you're no more likely to end up feeling ripped off than you would be buying a game from the store, even having read reviews beforehand. Can't count the number of times it's happened to me.
I didn't understand what you mean by other type of games?
Games other than MMOs. While I am a critic of KS in regards to developing anything resembling a decent MMO, I have backed a KS SPG (Wasteland 2 in my case). Why? Because the developer, who was the original developer of Wasteland came out and said: "If we get XX dollars, we'll make the game from start to finish. If we get more, we'll add in extra stuff." Sounds good. But for an MMO, the amount of money required to make a good, functional game from start to finish is exponentially more. Most times, these guys promoting an MMO, are doing a KS to fund a tech demo or get into pre-alpha. But then what? For Wasteland2 it was to do the whole game. That is the difference, and why I don't think MMOs and KS mix particularly well. (And even now, the KS for the Camelot Unchained MMO has run out of gas and will not likely make the $2 mil they wanted.)
Games other than MMOs. While I am a critic of KS in regards to developing anything resembling a decent MMO, I have backed a KS SPG (Wasteland 2 in my case). Why? Because the developer, who was the original developer of Wasteland came out and said: "If we get XX dollars, we'll make the game from start to finish. If we get more, we'll add in extra stuff." Sounds good. But for an MMO, the amount of money required to make a good, functional game from start to finish is exponentially more. Most times, these guys promoting an MMO, are doing a KS to fund a tech demo or get into pre-alpha. But then what? For Wasteland2 it was to do the whole game. That is the difference, and why I don't think MMOs and KS mix particularly well. (And even now, the KS for the Camelot Unchained MMO has run out of gas and will not likely make the $2 mil they wanted.)
I don't know bro. For people who wouldn't fund MMO kickstarter for all the reasons discussed here wouldn't fund the singple player games either. (atleast that is what i believe).
The underlying issue is the same. You get nothing but big promises and how they are going to change the gaming genre. And to make matters worse we have so many dvelopers now who are kick starting games. hard to say who actually deserves and who doesn't.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I don't know bro. For people who wouldn't fund MMO kickstarter for all the reasons discussed here wouldn't fund the singple player games either. (atleast that is what i believe).
Kickstarter is for developing and publishing products in mind. You can help fund a kickstarter without actually getting the product or service, depending on what you contribute.
Pre-order is with consumption primarily in mind.
Objectively, they are not comparable. However it's not uncommon for people to treat kickstarter as a pre-order, and in that case they are very much the same. This is a question less about where you spend your money, but rather what your motives are, your level entitlement as a result of your spending, and how much you bitch on internet forums as a result.
I don't think either is bad if it is a product or company you believe in. I do think there are some kickstarter campaigns out there that are a ripoff and are suckering some due to nostalgia but whatever. I would go into more detail but apparently some here including mods are incredibly "sensitive" about the subject.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Although there are a few game on kickstarter that I really want to play. None of them were worth even a $10 pledge, well except for one.
I was really pissed I missed the PathFinder kickstarter. That is one I actually have hopes for and really wish that their vision can be made a reality.
To all the people who kickstarted Camalot Unchained, and a few other titles that I cant think of (because its getting late), I want to say thank you.
So...
Thanks Guys!!!
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
Only donate to something you truly want to happen with a company that is experienced and has the information needed to make the intelligent decision to give them your money. Do not give money to anything that looks to be a scam or is lacking in informed information.
People are so easly tricked these days into pre-order or KS its mind boggeling beyond believe.
I'll buy game when its finished but not before ive infestigated enough to know its worth my money, offcorse i can still buy crap but risk is minimal.
And reason i won't pre-order or KS is not money i just dont wanne pay for product i only know its one day comming or promised cookies i get lol im no little child easely seduced with some promised extra candy:)
Gameplay videos beta footage previews and more info on the game before i deside ill buy it or not.
Well good for you mr high and mighty grown up but some of us "children" are willing to take a risk on something that has potential that we are involved in from start to finish. Your telling me you've never preordered a game or bought one on release day without reading a load of reviews or videos based purely on the games previous success?
Originally posted by BeggarKing [...] Your telling me you've never preordered a game or bought one on release day without reading a load of reviews or videos based purely on the games previous success?
Originally posted by BeggarKing Well good for you mr high and mighty grown up but some of us "children" are willing to take a risk on something that has potential that we are involved in from start to finish. Your telling me you've never preordered a game or bought one on release day without reading a load of reviews or videos based purely on the games previous success?
If you are asking me then nope i have never blindly pre ordered anything. I always take part in open betas and if i miss that i watch a lot of gameplay videos, read previews and reviews before making a purchase.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by BeggarKing Well good for you mr high and mighty grown up but some of us "children" are willing to take a risk on something that has potential that we are involved in from start to finish. Your telling me you've never preordered a game or bought one on release day without reading a load of reviews or videos based purely on the games previous success?
No. I have never pre-ordered a game, nor wil buy one on release day unless i have played the beta, or since a ton of positive reviews.
Will not start to do that either.
So many games are F2P .. there is no need to be blinded sided by any game. Just play something else and wait for reviews/demo on the one you are anticipating.
People who want to bitch are the ones who typically post something. This is usually less than 1% of the entire consumer market.
Don't worry about what these idiots think. It isn't the majority, it is a very very small minority and zero impact of the reality of the situations.
If you worry about what others think when it only impacts you then you should reconsider the use of message/comment boards for communication.
But that is not what this topic is all about.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Burntvet Both are stupid, it is only worse for KS, as the numbers tend to be bigger and at least for pre-ordering (which I will not ever be doing), there is a game, i.e. it exists. Throwing down hundreds of dollars or more for an MMO that might not ever come to be, and no recourse to reclaim that money if it doesn't is not something I could ever see myself doing. Call me crazy, but I actually want to get what I pay for, and I'll pay when I get it. So, at this point: Pre-order MMO - dumb, Pre-order MMO-LTS - really dumb, KS "donation" at a high level for a theoretical MMO - "stop eating the lead paint chips" time.
I totally agree. And, it's just a matter of time before someone manipulates the system to fleece donors.
Games other than MMOs. While I am a critic of KS in regards to developing anything resembling a decent MMO, I have backed a KS SPG (Wasteland 2 in my case). Why? Because the developer, who was the original developer of Wasteland came out and said: "If we get XX dollars, we'll make the game from start to finish. If we get more, we'll add in extra stuff." Sounds good. But for an MMO, the amount of money required to make a good, functional game from start to finish is exponentially more. Most times, these guys promoting an MMO, are doing a KS to fund a tech demo or get into pre-alpha. But then what? For Wasteland2 it was to do the whole game. That is the difference, and why I don't think MMOs and KS mix particularly well. (And even now, the KS for the Camelot Unchained MMO has run out of gas and will not likely make the $2 mil they wanted.)
The underlying issue is the same. You get nothing but big promises and how they are going to change the gaming genre.
...And we hear that from every developer, but we get the same old games everytime.
Games other than MMOs. While I am a critic of KS in regards to developing anything resembling a decent MMO, I have backed a KS SPG (Wasteland 2 in my case). Why? Because the developer, who was the original developer of Wasteland came out and said: "If we get XX dollars, we'll make the game from start to finish. If we get more, we'll add in extra stuff." Sounds good. But for an MMO, the amount of money required to make a good, functional game from start to finish is exponentially more. Most times, these guys promoting an MMO, are doing a KS to fund a tech demo or get into pre-alpha. But then what? For Wasteland2 it was to do the whole game. That is the difference, and why I don't think MMOs and KS mix particularly well. (And even now, the KS for the Camelot Unchained MMO has run out of gas and will not likely make the $2 mil they wanted.)
The underlying issue is the same. You get nothing but big promises and how they are going to change the gaming genre.
...And we hear that from every developer, but we get the same old games everytime.
and that is why you don't see my shelfing out money unless i know a game is fun.
Games other than MMOs. While I am a critic of KS in regards to developing anything resembling a decent MMO, I have backed a KS SPG (Wasteland 2 in my case). Why? Because the developer, who was the original developer of Wasteland came out and said: "If we get XX dollars, we'll make the game from start to finish. If we get more, we'll add in extra stuff." Sounds good. But for an MMO, the amount of money required to make a good, functional game from start to finish is exponentially more. Most times, these guys promoting an MMO, are doing a KS to fund a tech demo or get into pre-alpha. But then what? For Wasteland2 it was to do the whole game. That is the difference, and why I don't think MMOs and KS mix particularly well. (And even now, the KS for the Camelot Unchained MMO has run out of gas and will not likely make the $2 mil they wanted.)
The underlying issue is the same. You get nothing but big promises and how they are going to change the gaming genre.
...And we hear that from every developer, but we get the same old games everytime.
Maybe but atleast i know what i am getting into. Can you say the same about kickstarter?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I will not preorder or box. Free to play all the way. But I would like to note if box, pay, and free would get their shize together and make a worthy game these kckstarters would die off. Another way of saying kickstarter = DESPERATE for a decent game.
Originally posted by Jemcrystal I will not preorder or box. Free to play all the way. But I would like to note if box, pay, and free would get their shize together and make a worthy game these kckstarters would die off. Another way of saying kickstarter = DESPERATE for a decent game.
Yeah F2P all the way.
There are plenty of fun games. I am not desperate enough to buy "hope" on KS.
Originally posted by Distopia The only thing bad in this discussion is giving a crap what other people say about your decision in regard to this subject.
Comments
I wouldn't trust kick starter so nope i am not in that category. The main reason being that words are cheap Big talks mean nothing in the end when it comes to kick starters. As far as pre order goes i actually test the games before hand and then pre order. I can not do so in kick starters.
I probably wouldn't put significant money into a kickstarter MMO either given that no developer has really demonstrated that they actually know how to make one well. Having said that, other types of games... why wouldn't you? At the very least you're no more likely to end up feeling ripped off than you would be buying a game from the store, even having read reviews beforehand. Can't count the number of times it's happened to me.
I didn't understand what you mean by other type of games?
I didn't understand what you mean by other type of games?
Games other than MMOs. While I am a critic of KS in regards to developing anything resembling a decent MMO, I have backed a KS SPG (Wasteland 2 in my case). Why? Because the developer, who was the original developer of Wasteland came out and said: "If we get XX dollars, we'll make the game from start to finish. If we get more, we'll add in extra stuff." Sounds good. But for an MMO, the amount of money required to make a good, functional game from start to finish is exponentially more. Most times, these guys promoting an MMO, are doing a KS to fund a tech demo or get into pre-alpha. But then what? For Wasteland2 it was to do the whole game. That is the difference, and why I don't think MMOs and KS mix particularly well. (And even now, the KS for the Camelot Unchained MMO has run out of gas and will not likely make the $2 mil they wanted.)I don't know bro. For people who wouldn't fund MMO kickstarter for all the reasons discussed here wouldn't fund the singple player games either. (atleast that is what i believe).
The underlying issue is the same. You get nothing but big promises and how they are going to change the gaming genre. And to make matters worse we have so many dvelopers now who are kick starting games. hard to say who actually deserves and who doesn't.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Yeah ... i won't fund ANY KS.
Kickstarter is for developing and publishing products in mind. You can help fund a kickstarter without actually getting the product or service, depending on what you contribute.
Pre-order is with consumption primarily in mind.
Objectively, they are not comparable. However it's not uncommon for people to treat kickstarter as a pre-order, and in that case they are very much the same. This is a question less about where you spend your money, but rather what your motives are, your level entitlement as a result of your spending, and how much you bitch on internet forums as a result.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Although there are a few game on kickstarter that I really want to play. None of them were worth even a $10 pledge, well except for one.
I was really pissed I missed the PathFinder kickstarter. That is one I actually have hopes for and really wish that their vision can be made a reality.
To all the people who kickstarted Camalot Unchained, and a few other titles that I cant think of (because its getting late), I want to say thank you.
So...
Thanks Guys!!!
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
People are so easly tricked these days into pre-order or KS its mind boggeling beyond believe.
I'll buy game when its finished but not before ive infestigated enough to know its worth my money, offcorse i can still buy crap but risk is minimal.
And reason i won't pre-order or KS is not money i just dont wanne pay for product i only know its one day comming or promised cookies i get lol im no little child easely seduced with some promised extra candy:)
Gameplay videos beta footage previews and more info on the game before i deside ill buy it or not.
Actually, no I didnt.
If you are asking me then nope i have never blindly pre ordered anything. I always take part in open betas and if i miss that i watch a lot of gameplay videos, read previews and reviews before making a purchase.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
No. I have never pre-ordered a game, nor wil buy one on release day unless i have played the beta, or since a ton of positive reviews.
Will not start to do that either.
So many games are F2P .. there is no need to be blinded sided by any game. Just play something else and wait for reviews/demo on the one you are anticipating.
People who want to bitch are the ones who typically post something. This is usually less than 1% of the entire consumer market.
Don't worry about what these idiots think. It isn't the majority, it is a very very small minority and zero impact of the reality of the situations.
If you worry about what others think when it only impacts you then you should reconsider the use of message/comment boards for communication.
You stay sassy!
But that is not what this topic is all about.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I totally agree. And, it's just a matter of time before someone manipulates the system to fleece donors.
...And we hear that from every developer, but we get the same old games everytime.
and that is why you don't see my shelfing out money unless i know a game is fun.
You can't do that unless the game exists.
Maybe but atleast i know what i am getting into. Can you say the same about kickstarter?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Yeah F2P all the way.
There are plenty of fun games. I am not desperate enough to buy "hope" on KS.
This
Kickstarter is for people with dreams... the best games are made from people's dreams. Not on business men's draft boards..
You loose nothing, you gain everything.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon