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Is GW2 the "Game that ruined MMOs?"
wordiz
Member Posts: 464
Now that GW2 has been out a while and I've moved on to other newer games, I've already noticed a difference in how people are approaching gameplay. For example, adapting the zerg tactics from GW2 WvW and dungeons into an "every man for him self, everybody burn the boss carelessly" similar to a keep lord or boss from GW2, and applying those tactics to dungeon bosses in other games. It seems like even killing add waves is too much for people anymore. I noticed a similar "simplying" (to put it nicely) in play styles after WoW, that bled into other games of the time, and has obviously lead to developers having to adapt newer games to that weaker (IMO) playstyle.
It's been said by many older school MMORPG gamers that WoW is responsible for the decline of quality in the genre.
Feeling like GW2 took the simplification of the MMORPG a step further by taking out class roles and other major elements that have been MMO standards even before WoW...I wonder, will GW2 be regarded with as much hatred by future gamers as WoW is now a days? Will it's effects on industry trends be as longterm?
[mod note - edited title to not make this a comparison before people even read the OP]
OP edit: TY mod. Was a good idea. I just want to add what the original title was if that's ok.
"Will GW2 replace WoW as "The game that ruined MMOs?"
This was based on the people you hear in forums and other games that claim WoW destroyed or softened the MMO formula. GW2 has obviously made it's own impact in the industry with the new concepts they've brough to gameplay. Some (including myself) see some of these changes as softening gameplay further rather than improving it. This post was intended for feedback and the opinions of others...not to make end all statements or to compare the two games, but rather their impact on future games.
Comments
The Zerg mentality has been around from the Beginning. It's nothing New and has been around before WOW. you may see it more in WOW and GW2, that's only because of higher population.
Blame the Players not the Game.
I see nothing wrong with breaking up the standard. It's either make a "standard" game and be forever known as "Yet-Another-WoW-clone" or do something different. I think Gw2 accomplished that and so far I like the change. Yes everybody screams for healers because some of you can't manage their health pool or you simply don't know the appropriate combos. I suppose this is fault in Gw2 that it isn't teaching players about it, you have to specifically check the wiki or well pay attention to the tooltips in the game xD
Even though I always enjoyed playing tank in previous MMOs, the guardian class cuts it pretty close to what a tank is with superb healing abilities. And I didn't play tank because of support role but lets face it, tanks were the most OP classes :P Sure they did not have damage bursts, but were perfectly capable of resisting any burst damage and counter almost any skill/debuff. I don't know whats the cry about the trinity, my girlfriend plays healer guardian, I play a hybrid one and our friends play various of classes, we have no issue with any content of the game, even lvl 20+ fractals. Especially when we get a shout heal warrior or god fobid water ele, the healing is there. With that being said, I'd like to add that the holy trinity IS there in Gw2, It's just more "softly" defined. You can be anything, and that is what matter IMO. Being able to swap from tank to DPS/Heal or vice-versa IS fun to me. I don't need to create an alt toon and have to level up all over again, just because I want to change my role for a moment.
Maybe so, but it increased heavily after WoW and has gotten worse since GW2 launched...
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
I disagree. I will give EvE as an example again. Its a vast universe with ~40-50k players online at all times and yet the good combats are indeed the zerg fests e.g. when 2 alliances collide for a given territory
P.S: EvE predates WoW. So yeah as the guy before said, Don't blame the game, blame the players.
I played GW2 heavily and I never saw these "roles" you speak of. I think people get off on pretending they're there, and even more so on pretending like the "roles" they claim they're playing have something to do with clearing the content they're given.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
You can't compare EvE to either of these games. Man, I'm starting to regret this post.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
Oh really? Okay ... given the fact that the guardian has the lowest HP pool of all ... tell me which class has the highest survivability? Imagine a direct damage to thief,mesmer,ele,ranger and then imagine direct damage to a guardian, see which class would hold up more. A guardian can outlast a warrior fairly easy as well. As for heals, guardians have good healing, shout warriors can pump up to 8k heals in just a few seconds and water eles are thing of their own
You blind bro?
P.S: Why can't I compare eve to them? Because eve is not a themepark? So???? Is the zerg there? I suppose so!
You can't blame a Game for player mentality. It seems No one cares about the ride, they just want to get to the end. Everyone worries so much about Endgame and don't take their time to get there. I love to do Everything, but most people don't have the patients to do that. I see people max their level in games in about 2 days. REALLY? How can you enjoy a game doing that? Then they are the first ones you hear screaming about the lack of endgame content. This is ALL GAMES, Not just the most populated ones.
Ok Don't blame the game, blame the player as well here because "Zerging" has been around even before EvE via EQ1 which is older then all 3 of those games.
But you don't think certain games have catered to this more than others, or even encouraged it? You really don't think that WoW didn't soften gameplay to widen their demographic, and that GW2 didn't follow suit, then take it a step further?
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
EQ had single pull dungeons, at least up to the SoL expansion which is when I quit playing. There's no way you could zerg content in EQ. Try again. In EQ people still pulled with rangers, the tank lead rush through didn't come in until WoW.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
Games like Defiance and Guild Wars 2 are labeled as "the games that ruined MMOs" for me.
In a normal MMO
"Hey, lets reach end game so we can have fun!"
In GW2/Defiance
"Hey, theres no end games, therefore nothing to achieve! Hey wtf?"
Rift made f2p at a good time. I'm still subbing to it, and now it is a b2p for me since I am a veteran.
It has the typical levels, it has somewhat a little more complex class build, and it has end game.
Why would I keep playing at high level, if theres nothing more to achieve? Yes it can be fun to go in and kill some mobs, do some PvP. But I never feel I am a hero, more just "equal to all other noobs".
The force of MMOs for me, is that I become better, tougher, stornger. Shiny loots where I think Oooo nice I can replace my sword / pants /whatever. Not like "Oh well, this weapon has slower speed but higher damage, vs this high speed and slower damage. What to pick? Meh doesnt matter".
I want end game, that doesnt need to require alot of sacrifice in the real world.
lol what???? zerging was so in eq1......40-70+ people all charging and attacking a boss that was tanked in a wall, I'm confused now.
I think there are some that would say this is Western entitlement, and that this attitude is destructive to community.
You're complaining about lack of endgame in another game while playing GW2? Interesting.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
Gw2 pulls it back (slightly) in the other direction.
Don't take it as a Bash to your Post. I believe that Zerging IS an issue. you see it more in Higher population. Once again, It's the Player mentality. " What is the fastest way to get to the max level before anyone else?" EVERY game has these players. But you can't Blame the popular games. You simply see it more due to the numbers.
I love the world design in GW2. It's a near perfect blend of size, explorability, and bomb graphics for a MMO. I will give it that.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/
I havent edited my signature :P
One of the lead concepts in GW2 was to avoid the rush to end-game, so players could enjoy all the content. I think they were trying to cater to their hardcore fans, who simply enjoyed playing with their guilds in a growing world. The model did, to an extent, blow-up in their face, but I don't think they are to blame for anything but trying to innovate a little. They brought players together, similar to RIFT, which will inevitably lead to bringing the Zerg at lower levels.
In the end, it's all about your guild and your friends with whom you play. I think that is what makes these type of games fun. People should spend a little more time finding the right group of players to play alongside. It's a player decision that many choose to avoid altogether.
Gaming since 1985; Online gaming since 1995; No End in Sight! My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8POVoJ8fdOseuJ4U1ZX-oA
Of course you see more zerging in higher populations, you see more of a lot of things . . . because there are more people.
WoW has been dipping the last two years and I don't think GW2 is going to be hated on as much as WoW was/is. BUT, at some point a new game will come out that will be wildly popular and then after a couple years/expansions it will be cool to hate that too.
I don't know why you'd think I took it that way, especially based on the post you're responding to. Super confused.
I thought I asked a good question. It's all good, don't answer it.
I don't see things the way you do. I know for a fact that the majority of people buy what is primarily marketed at their demographic over personal preference in almost any media industry. I watch other media industries like music and film, with Lady Gaga, Niki Minaj, Twilight....these products are forced down our throats with multimillion dollar advertising campaigns...that's why they're famous and popular...it's not because they're good art or are good products. Half of the responsibility for any bad media trends goes on the producer (or developer) and the other half goes on the consumer that supports it with their money. WoW had control over how people approached and played their game, and purposely altered the formula to make the game available to more people. This decision wasn't made with the quality of the game in mind, it was made with money in mind...just like Cata...which I'm sure a lot of you WoW kids prolly hated.
http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/