You're being highly selective about who you bother replying to in this thread which is rather frustrating. Many of your counter-arguments have already been countered by earlier posts...
You just ignored half of what the person you're quoting said with regards to combos. You cannot have the combos set up perfectly on your hotbar because the same skills are used in different combos. If you set up 1-2-3-4-5 on your hotbar for one combo another combo is going to use those same skills in a different order... The pugilist/monk in particular is important here as the order you use their skills in a combo produces a different effect meaning you are going to be regularly using different combos to suit the situation... I really would love to see you faceroll that.
Crafting is useful throughout ALL levels. It is you who is missing the bigger picture. 1-50 is only one class. You are going to have other classes to level and they will not have quests to give them gear. They will need to buy it and crafting will be the best source. Why do you keep deliberately ignoring the previous posts that have stated this?
The problem here is not the game, or people trying to defend against any kind of justified criticism. The problem here is that you are looking at a tiny section of the beginning of the game and judging the entire experience based on that. You seem to be missing just how big an impact the multi-class system has on all the other game systems.
I'm at work, so I have long delays between posts. Sorry for that.
For 1) Consult my previous post.
Now that's actually a good argument for 2. I had heard from other people that once you complete all the one-and-done quests, that leveling a second job is substantially more difficult because of it. However, why are people randomly throwing away their old gear? You guys are making it seem like inventory space is going to be an issue with the armory chest. While there will undoubtedly be some inventory dissolved via materia creation, I still think people are forgetting other things. If you're leveling multiple jobs at the same time, you could easily recycle the gear. If you're not, you could just as easily level a craft and create your own armor set in what, 15 minutes for the level 1-15 equipment?
Yet again, I say it. You're looking at the consequences of having a level 50 already, but you're neglecting the fact that there's still 49 levels to get through FIRST.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I'm not defensive at all, in fact I don't even see a need to respond to your last post because I think people can read it themselves and see exactly what I would post.
That combat isn't faceroll, that crafting isn't useless, and that I am probably not the one who "needs to seek help" since again I am pretty happy playing this game.
You didn't really counter my last points, you just backpeddled on your own, and you still haven't even touched on 90% of my original post. People can play for themselves and read dozens of pages of feedback from others who have played FFXIV to plainly see that you haven't got the slightest idea what y ou are talking about I'm afraid.
Well okay that's not entirely true...
You are wrong that only 5% of players care about having better than NPC/Quest gear when they play (not that "twink gear" as you put it is the only source of income for crafters, or that this "twink gear" merely has "1-2 more attribute points" which have little to no effect on a character because none of that is true either).
And you don't have just one combo, with one branch for 2/3rds of the game. I wasn't going to respond to these at first because they are so obvious, but I don't want to be accused of just flaming you without reading your post.
I'm not defensive at all, in fact I don't even see a need to respond to your last post because I think people can read it themselves and see exactly what I would post.
That combat isn't faceroll, that crafting isn't useless, and that I am probably not the one who "needs to seek help" since again I am pretty happy playing this game.
You didn't really counter my last points, you just backpeddled on your own, and you still haven't even touched on 90% of my original post. People can play for themselves and read dozens of pages of feedback from others who have played FFXIV to plainly see that you haven't got the slightest idea what y ou are talking about I'm afraid.
Well okay that's not entirely true...
You are wrong that only 5% of players care about having better than NPC/Quest gear when they play (not that "twink gear" as you put it is the only source of income for crafters, or that this "twink gear" merely has "1-2 more attribute points" which have little to no effect on a character because none of that is true either).
And you don't have just one combo, with one branch for 2/3rds of the game. I wasn't going to respond to these at first because they are so obvious, but I don't want to be accused of just flaming you without reading your post.
You're going to have a heart attack if you keep getting this stressed out.
If I was so isolated in my thoughts, than this thread would be filled with naysayers. It's not. You have like a 50/50 split of people who agree and disagree. I can't counter your points because you aren't making any. For someone who is so happy, you sure do seem to be mad.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
You're completely wrong about the crafting. The materia system alone is going to make all elements of the crafting system nigh essential to improving your gear. Materia is produced from breaking down equipment that has been used long enough to fill its special xp gauge. That means players are going to need a constant supply of high quality gear to consistently level and break down.
Please also bear in mind that once you have done a quest it is done for good... when you return to level another class you will have to find an alternative for leveling and that will mean a similar alternative for better gear (hint: crafting).
The spammy combat is a result of a multitude of things:
You are low level and have few skills.
You have not unlocked many cross-class skill combinations which add a great deal of variety to combat.
Lower level content is easier as it is essentially tutorial content (1-10 primarily).
Your issue with the quests is entirely your fault for feeling forced to do them. The quests in this game are non-linear. There are no hubs with a linear path leading you from A to B. It has been stated that you can level a class on nothing but the main story quests. Please remember that this game's content is designed to accomodate a player leveling EVERY class. You are not expected to do everything on one class and any quest content completed will be unavailable to the other classes. TO put it bluntly the quests will offer an easy leveling route for your first or second class... beyond that you'll have to play other content to level.
No one is really in any position to criticise this game's content and systems until they're playing through on a second or third class as the experience will be very different.
Couldnt of explained it any better, Yoshi did explain the crafting system in a live dev letter earlier this year, and that it will become apparent at later levels crafting will have its place, he also made a statement explaining that he expects players to get the best gear from dungeons and it is working that way as intended. Highlighted text is similar to how it was in 1.0, players made a lot of gil with crafting gear for spiritbonding parties.
I'm not defensive at all, in fact I don't even see a need to respond to your last post because I think people can read it themselves and see exactly what I would post.
That combat isn't faceroll, that crafting isn't useless, and that I am probably not the one who "needs to seek help" since again I am pretty happy playing this game.
You didn't really counter my last points, you just backpeddled on your own, and you still haven't even touched on 90% of my original post. People can play for themselves and read dozens of pages of feedback from others who have played FFXIV to plainly see that you haven't got the slightest idea what y ou are talking about I'm afraid.
Well okay that's not entirely true...
You are wrong that only 5% of players care about having better than NPC/Quest gear when they play (not that "twink gear" as you put it is the only source of income for crafters, or that this "twink gear" merely has "1-2 more attribute points" which have little to no effect on a character because none of that is true either).
And you don't have just one combo, with one branch for 2/3rds of the game. I wasn't going to respond to these at first because they are so obvious, but I don't want to be accused of just flaming you without reading your post.
You're going to have a heart attack if you keep getting this stressed out.
If I was so isolated in my thoughts, than this thread would be filled with naysayers. It's not. You have like a 50/50 split of people who agree and disagree. I can't counter your points because you aren't making any. For someone who is so happy, you sure do seem to be mad.
You really think there is a 50/50 split on this forum with people who agree with you and disagree? Cause I'm not seeing that, I'm also not seeing that in this thread since only Gandles has agreed with your assessment of the game. That is only 2 people, which doesn't make it a 50-50 split at all.
Please don't worry on my account though I take baby aspirin and I have a cup to catch all this rabid frothing from my just overwhelming and unrestrained rage at life, grrrr.
I'm not defensive at all, in fact I don't even see a need to respond to your last post because I think people can read it themselves and see exactly what I would post.
That combat isn't faceroll, that crafting isn't useless, and that I am probably not the one who "needs to seek help" since again I am pretty happy playing this game.
You didn't really counter my last points, you just backpeddled on your own, and you still haven't even touched on 90% of my original post. People can play for themselves and read dozens of pages of feedback from others who have played FFXIV to plainly see that you haven't got the slightest idea what y ou are talking about I'm afraid.
Well okay that's not entirely true...
You are wrong that only 5% of players care about having better than NPC/Quest gear when they play (not that "twink gear" as you put it is the only source of income for crafters, or that this "twink gear" merely has "1-2 more attribute points" which have little to no effect on a character because none of that is true either).
And you don't have just one combo, with one branch for 2/3rds of the game. I wasn't going to respond to these at first because they are so obvious, but I don't want to be accused of just flaming you without reading your post.
You're going to have a heart attack if you keep getting this stressed out.
If I was so isolated in my thoughts, than this thread would be filled with naysayers. It's not. You have like a 50/50 split of people who agree and disagree. I can't counter your points because you aren't making any. For someone who is so happy, you sure do seem to be mad.
You really think there is a 50/50 split on this forum with people who agree with you and disagree? Cause I'm not seeing that, I'm also not seeing that in this thread since only Gandles has agreed with your assessment of the game. That is only 2 people, which doesn't make it a 50-50 split at all.
Please don't worry on my account though I take baby aspirin and I have a cup to catch all this rabid frothing from my just unrestrained rage at life, grrrr.
Been following this thread for a little while, but felt no need to post since it's just one person's opinion or worry about the future based on their preferences.
Though as a whole I have to agree with Murugan that there is no 50/50 split here or on any other forums I frequent. It's probably 95/5 at best just on what I've been seeing. Though that does not invalidate another's experience or the fact they may go to different forums. With regards to crafting, the potential for it being less useful for this game when compared to 1.0 is a possibility. But I'm sure that crafted items will be better than quest items, and dungeon items will be better than crafted items. In addition we'll have the whole color thing whereby quest items make you look like a clown and crafted items will likely be of the same color without any additional work to alter them.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Have people not ran Sastasha? Copperbell Mines? Tam-Tara Deepcroft? The three lowbie instances that actually kinda blew me away with such fun and interesting mechanics in the boss fights? I can only imagine what the late game stuff is. The game has been fun from the start - maybe not the fetch quests from 1-2 to introduce you to the city, but... after that everything is fascinating.
I love the story quests, the crafting is indeed very useful i can't see why some one would say that - people should prolly listen to the live producer letters with closed captioning turned on and read a lot of the points Yoshida talks about.
I think they have done a great job making the world engaging "BEFORE" level 50 and i only got to 22.
While the game is incredibly polished and pristine in it's presentation, the depth of the game gave me cause for concern.
From what I was able to gather from the last few days, and mind you, I could be totally wrong:
1) Crafting is, for all intensive purposes, going to be useless for nearly the entire game. Aside from the materia synthesis, there's essentially zero purpose to it whatsoever. From levels 1-30, I never once used or needed to craft/purchase any gear. This leads me to believe that there won't be much of an economy as a result, since there's no need to trade, either. 2) I saw a lot, like a whole lot, of players complaining about being bored within 45 minutes of playing. This doesn't bode well for me. Having a strong game that looks impressive and plays smoothly is incredibly underrated, but if your game can't compel people to keep playing it, than all that is irrelevant. I'm concerned about the retention power of 14. 3) Combat is still spammy and boring. This wasn't addressed from closed beta. You're face-rolling your keyboard, or pressing 1 -> 2 for half the game. Though I was at least excited to see some placement skills and dodging of enemy skills being possible.
But most notable of all to me was this:
The simplicity.
The game emphasizes questing and cutscenes and storylines, saying that it wanted a different approach from FFXI (see: tank and spank for 4 hours). They said they wanted to diversify the gameplay, and make it more unique. Well, the problem is that they failed to do that entirely.
In fact, I feel like there's TOO many quests. Some of them are so pitifully easy that it begs the question of "Why was this even a quest at all?". Walking from an NPC to less than 10 seconds away to pick up 3 ______ from the ground is worth more exp than killing 15 mobs? Why is that? was there some grave amount of skill used in doing so? Not only that, but the quests are incredibly redundant, especially in the first 20 levels. It's essentially all "Deliver, fetch, kill X and collect Y" quests. There's legitimately no challenge or innovation at all, yet there's a discouragement on "grinding". Yet, at least to me personally, at least grinding is convenient. I'm doing something more than picking up coins scattered around town, I'm in combat.
Again, while I haven't seen the whole game yet, from what I have seen, I'm not seeing a lot of depth, innovation, or complexity. Which is fine, maybe they're not going for that. However, I think those 3 aspects have a huge impact on a game's staying power and longevity.
Did anyone here experience these same thoughts? After playing GW2, and SWtoR, and several other modern MMO's, I just had a difficult time finding a lot of originality or points of interest, but instead was saturated with the sensation of "I've been here and done all this before..."
1) I can't really comment on the crafting, I know nothing about it.
2) People tend to have short attention spans, why are you going to take what a bunch of people are saying as final word? Just because a few people got bored 45 minutes in, doesn't mean you will. Are you one of those guys who looks at a movie review, then doesn't see the movie, just because it got a horrible review, even though, if you went to go see it, you'd probably love it?
3) I feel like combat is exactly 150% what they said they were going to do. "We are wanting a World of Warcraft in the Final Fantasy environment". I feel the combat is just that.
Between party groups, questing, fates, etc; I feel that FF: XIV has a great system to it, no, not unique, it's just 3 or 4 alternative ways to advance your character.
I feel like at this point, you did not read anything at all about the game, you knew nothing going in, and are now venting frustration because you did not read, and had no idea what you were getting yourself into.
Did anyone here experience these same thoughts? After playing GW2, and SWtoR, and several other modern MMO's, I just had a difficult time finding a lot of originality or points of interest, but instead was saturated with the sensation of "I've been here and done all this before..."
I didn't experience that at all.
I'll take your remarks point by point.
1) Crafting is, for all intensive purposes, going to be useless for nearly the entire game. Aside from the materia synthesis, there's essentially zero purpose to it whatsoever. From levels 1-30, I never once used or needed to craft/purchase any gear. This leads me to believe that there won't be much of an economy as a result, since there's no need to trade, either.
That's some rather heavy-handed conjecture there. People don't bother buying or selling stuff in a Beta because... well... it's a Beta. The character data is going to be wiped. There's no point to it. Getting gear as rewards you get as you level up is a good thing. It's there to make sure that, at the very least, you're not leveling into higher difficulty content and finding yourself ill-equipped for it. It provides basic utility to the player.
Crafting will become more useful as people settle in and find out what things are better as crafted, versus quest rewards, versus drops from dungeons, etc. The economy will develop as a value is determined by the players, via good old supply and demand. Just like it is in any other MMO with an economy players can influence.
Predicting the entirety of a game's economy or feasibility of crafting based on limited experience with it in a beta is rather absurd.
2) I saw a lot, like a whole lot, of players complaining about being bored within 45 minutes of playing. This doesn't bode well for me. Having a strong game that looks impressive and plays smoothly is incredibly underrated, but if your game can't compel people to keep playing it, than all that is irrelevant. I'm concerned about the retention power of 14.
Perhaps those were the only ones you were paying attention to? I saw a number of complaints as well. A lot of them were in the form of people complaining about something they didn't understand, or were attempting to approach as they would in any other MMO, but didn't work quite the same in XIV. Once people explained things to them, they were fine.
I saw far, far more compliments, praise and positivity. I also saw a lot of normal, pleasant conversation. People asking questions and being helped... people joking around, etc. All in all it was a very positive experience. One of the few times in a MMO I didn't need to hide the chat.
Still, both your experience and mine are anecdotal and, at the end of the day, really don't mean much in the big picture.
3) Combat is still spammy and boring. This wasn't addressed from closed beta. You're face-rolling your keyboard, or pressing 1 -> 2 for half the game. Though I was at least excited to see some placement skills and dodging of enemy skills being possible.
The early levels will be more "spammy" as they're only giving you a few basic attacks and such as you are learning. Once you hit level 10, you can train into other classes, learn their abilities, add them to your own and start forging your own personal playstyle. Or, you can stick to the skills provided solely for your starting class and rely entirely on those. How involved, or simple, the combat remains is up to you. Especially as you level up and more becomes available to you.
And then, of course, in parties, you'll find that your approach to playing changes as it's no longer "all about you", but rather "all about your team and your place in it".
Regarding your complaints about the gameplay and there being "too many quests".
Some of the things you're asked to do are more little "tasks" than anything else. They take no time to do and are there, really, for flavor. To introduce an NPC and ease you into their story, or whatever it is you're going to be helping them with. It's like walking into a store, to have the store keeper say "Dear, can you help me? I was startled by a spider on the counter and knocked some of my items on the floor there. Could you just pick them up for me?". And once you've done that, there's a kind of "connection" there. They're no longer just "some random, nameless and faceless quest dispenser". They're an individual, an actual "person" existing in this world, and you've just endeared yourself to them, and they to you. That's how they come across to me.
Of course, your approach of being cynical and wondering why they're there at all is certainly another way to look at it. Not as enjoyable or interesting a way to see it to me, but hey... To each their own.
As for your remark about them failing to "diversify the gameplay", I completely and vehemently disagree. In my time playing between Friday evening and all day yesterday, I was doing all kinds of stuff. Regular quests, story quests, exploring and attuning to new Aetheryte nodes, accessing new Chocobo route points, doing Leves, doing FATEs, doing story quests, completing tiers of my Hunter's Log... I was doing all kinds of things. Hell, I didn't even get around to trying any harvesting or crafting yet. I still have that to do at some point. My time was absolutely full, and it absolutely did not lack diversity. And this is still in Beta.
Perhaps your problem is that of many others? You spend all your time doing the same activity over and over again, never to stop and do something else when it gets boring, and then blame the game for it?
Please don't worry on my account though I take baby aspirin and I have a cup to catch all this rabid frothing from my just overwhelming and unrestrained rage at life, grrrr.
That brought me some chuckles, not gonna lie
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Reality is not so bleak as you seem to think. I just feel bad for you if you feel the need to be so negative towards others enjoyment of things, as if it is an affront to you simply because you are incapable of enjoying yourself.
This shall become my new mantra, if that's OK with you, Murugan. :P
Reality is not so bleak as you seem to think. I just feel bad for you if you feel the need to be so negative towards others enjoyment of things, as if it is an affront to you simply because you are incapable of enjoying yourself.
This shall become my new mantra, if that's OK with you, Murugan. :P
The tape and the box set will go on retail for $9.95, not including S&H...
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Reality is not so bleak as you seem to think. I just feel bad for you if you feel the need to be so negative towards others enjoyment of things, as if it is an affront to you simply because you are incapable of enjoying yourself.
This shall become my new mantra, if that's OK with you, Murugan. :P
The tape and the box set will go on retail for $9.95, not including S&H...
For all the reasons in the OP, this game will be a giant failure IMO. Most likely just as bad and possibly worse than the original failure.
I was so bored I uninstalled in one hour. That's the first time any game has ever given me that response, even the original game did not. Sad to say this as it's hard to see my favourite games company has been dying like this lately.
I am with you on some of the concerns you posted. I am not sold on the simple game play at lower levels. The highest through all the betas I got was like 25, but the journey to that point was rather boring, combat skill wise. The combat animation and mechanics are smooth. The game engine plays 300 times better than the 1.0 version. The story line has been great with what I could experience in phase 3 (more voice over with all the text would be great!).
I agree with many other posts about the crafting. It will be essential. It always has been in FF games and will be here. I can see people by-passing it at low levels, but crafting will be essential at higher levels.
One thing I can say after going through all the phases of beta so far is that the combat needs more at lower levels. Not once did I feel like I needed to time any attack or defense ability. Only a few times did I realize how essential it is too move out of an enemies aoe telegraph. Combat wise I just did not feel challenged. Hopefully with the feedback the team will make appropriate changes... THEY HAVE DONE A FANTASTIC JOB SO FAR!
Worse not because game is worse but that interest in it has dwindled, and the game is still bland and uninteresting though it may be bug free and have some content.
Originally posted by Bananaramaa Worse not because game is worse but that interest in it has dwindled, and the game is still bland and uninteresting though it may be bug free and have some content.
Except . . . the opposite is true from what I have seen all over the internet. : / Interest is booming everywhere, FFXIV is trending at the top on MMORPG.com for the first time, people here and on the beta forums are loving the game, saying it is NOT bland and VERY interesting.
Not saying all opinions are saying that, keep in mind. But I am seeing positive reactions everywhere.
So I think you just came up with that out of the blue.
Originally posted by Cymdai I'm not Jaded, in fact, it's the opposite. I've played enough to have a standard, both for standalone games and re-releases. I can appreciate everyone praising the technical aspects of this game, because it's a very technically sound game. But it's not ground-breaking, it's not the best game in the past 10 years, etc etc. It's not FFXI-2 either. I don't understand how you can pretend that criticism of the game is irrelevant, or even worse, wrong, and somehow the fault of the player. If getting 2 jobs to level 30, and a craft, is still not enough to crush skepticism, than what is?
Honestly, just skimming through your post history makes it very blatantly obvious that you are burnt out almost completely on the MMO genre as a whole. I just googled jaded.
jaded
adjective /j?did/
Tired, bored, or lacking enthusiasm, typically after having had too much of something
But that aside I wholeheartedly understand (though I don't agree) with why you feel how you do. I however just got done going through phase 3 as well, having also participated in phase 2, and I don't share many if any of your views. I have been playing MMOs since UO back in 98, and I have subscribed to probably over 15 MMOs at this point, having bought many more that that, and I thought they have done an incredible job so far, and I only see it going uphill as they add additional content in the future.
Regarding combat, I can understand why some people might find it a little lackluster, but for me, I have played both a pugilist and a thaumaturgist during these betas, and a lot of juggling and balance is required. It's not like rift or WOW where you hit 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3. You have to mix it up to get maximum effectiveness, especially with the thaumaturgist's Umbral Frost, and Astral Fire mechanics. It's not entirely so simple.
As for questing, as said by someone earlier, the tasks in this game actually add a lot of flavor to the game as far as understanding the world goes. They still are task style though, and I get that people are tired of the traditional task style "quests" popularized originally by Everquest and later WoW, but I think part of this comes from the fact that they, like yourself, are jaded, and are going in fully expecting the same old tired MMO model.
When you go in expecting something, it's all you look for. You go into the game looking for complaints, looking for "rip-offs/clones" and tired mechanics that you personally are burnt out on, so you are doing nothing but setting yourself up for failure. It might be time to look inward and perhaps find a new hobby for fun to fill your time, because I very sincerely doubt that you will ever come across another MMO that will be up to your expectations. I mean that in all sincerity, this isn't intended as a personal attack. We are all entitled to our opinions.
Furthermore, they are listening to feedback and much of the games mechanics are being discussed. If you go into the beta feedback forums you can see them responding and discussing many of the concerns from players about all of the systems in game, and they even put a list together with all of the suggestions put forth so far with timelines given as well and whether it was intended or not. To me that speaks volumes.
1. No one buys player items in a beta because the potential boost over quested/dropped gear is not worth the time investment. This changes once people have characters they are invested in, and want to have only the best for. Not to mention the market for consumeables, and the market for Spiritbond gear (to turn into materia) which will be huge and a steady income for crafters not found in most MMO's.
2. I didn't see this, I saw the opposite. Curious how you can claim this when simple empirical evidence shows a huge positive reaction to the game that drowns out posts like yours.
3. If you set your first combo to 1-2, you will press those a lot.
Then later you'll get others combos and you might press 4-5.
Then you'll get some moves that go in between 1-2 and boost your finisher or add another effect, so you might do 1-8-2 (or you might reassign keys)
Then you'll get branching combos so sometimes you will do 1-8-2, and others you will do 1-2-6. You also get abilities as you level which give you self buffs etc., so you'll work those in between your global cooldown to optimize damage so you might do 1-8-ctrl+5-2.
Also many combos for melee require positioning so you'll have to really be pressing 1-wwwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2, or 1-wwwwww-dddddddd-8-wwwwww-aaaaaaaaa-2
Then you have classes/jobs like mnk/thm which use stances and you'll have to balance your weapon skills to utilize those systems so you optimize damage/don't run out of mp/tp, and don't drop your built buffs that you gain by using the system intelligently.
Then you have actual mob abilities you'll have to react to, you'll have to dodge some, you have reaction abilities where after you dodge/block you'll need to quickly perform an action to stun/do damage/pull hate/drop hate etc.
You should totally post a youtube series on how to play FFXIV and do all this with your face. I'd subscribe.
Your most important thing is just that you are jaded. You need somethign radically different at low levels in order to even give a game a chance. Well... not everyone is so jaded. New players being able to adapt to systems that may be familiar to you because you have played similar games in the past is actually an important and smart design choice. Without which this MMO actually would fail. As for retention, if the game never got more complex, never offered more challenges (like GW2 and SWTOR imo) then yeah that would suck. But it does, and that is why we need low level content to TEACH people how to play properly so that later we can get more challenging content even for MMO veterans without it actually being a detriment to player retention because only a few people understand how to play properly.
Calling someone jaded has been the prime defense when someone calls a game generic and boring, I don't think people need to be "jaded" to see the boring factor of a game.
As for me, I'm afraid I have to agree with OP regarding combat and quests. I can't see how you can deny they are as generic as they have been a decade ago. It wasn't 5 minutes after the tutorial and introduction that I was already receiving more than a couple of "These bugs are causing us SO much terror, please kill 5 of them and report back to me!" quests. Are we not past the point of these generic, boring quests? You don't have to be jaded to see how typical they are, and by what I see it doesn't seem as though it gets any better.
And combat, you really exaggerate your claim on how many people find it exciting. I found it as typical and boring as it has ever been: slow auto-attack, sitting there waiting for the 1 second global cooldown pressing 1, 2 or 3. I am aware later you get moves that should be done from the back/sides, but I doubt this makes much of a difference. It really felt distant, not satisfactory or interactive at all. I see people already saying that "that is only for the first levels, it gets better later", but I think what is a game worth if it cannot even hook the player from the beginning?
That said, it is indeed a very polished and good-looking game. It is admirable in that regard, and in the world they created, but the combat and quests leave a lot to be desired. If you are to call me "jaded" as well, I will have you know I would be playing games like Vindictus and Rift were it not for the approaching summer courses. I only went out of my way to try the beta and am now sharing what I felt about it. Does that make me not jaded?
I like the game, but the quests are awful, and the combat is quite boring/lacking depth IMO. A single WoW ability for one spec of one class has more depth and adds more complexity to gameplay than every single ability I've seen in XIV.
I don't care how charming the writing is for the quests. The gameplay that drives those quests needs to be fun, and pressing two buttons while facetanking a mob just isn't very fun for me anymore.
OVERALL RATING : 7/10 Enjoyable and playable but not super exciting or great. < Explanation Below >
I played the beta this weekend. I found it to be an ok experience overall but not exciting.
I saw a Huge social base for a new game coming out already forming in this short weekend beta and i believe the game will be enjoyable for play and social aspects for a great deal number of folks.
I also believe due to market timing it will be bigger then expected sell for Square enix as many long time gamers are looking for something to " sink thier teeth into " and this, thou not a super game imho, does meet enough gaming criteria to satisfy a huge player base .
I think no matter what your game play level experience you are looking for now is, that this game will provide enough of it to be playable and enjoyable to a satisfactory level, and add the social aspects and you got a Winner.
Combat and other aspects of gameplay didnt feel New , per say, but are acceptable. I found few bugs in this beta test. The game overall is very smooth. Character creation is very good. Lots of UI options and other features many prefer in a modern game.
I wasnt thinking to buy this game. After playing it this weekend i would highly encourage anyone interested even remotely to sign up for beta and make sure you get in some of the beta play < even if its the upcoming open beta > I am thinking i might purchase it myself soon, i want to play a bit more in the beta before i fully decide. Good Luck to you all!
I played the beta all weekend long on PS3 and absolutely loved it.
Wish I could have played on PC but the PS3 version is very well done. Brilliant UI layout, and one of the better looking games on the PS3. I will definitely be there on launch day.
As good as the music always is , I miss the acoustical guitar that FFXI had.
Shadowy tendrils coil around all enemies within 0 yards of a target (hostile or friendly), pulling them to the target's location.
I played WoW for about a year. Ive a 90 dk, 85 rogue,65 warlock and 24 pld. Your post is rediculous. How many abilities did you see in a short weekend beta? I pasted an ability from Wow. Where is the complexity and depth of this ability?
Youre comparing the first 20 some lvls of a BETA, to a game thats been around for 9 years with 4 expansions and over a hundred updates.
"I don't care how charming the writing is for the quests. The gameplay that drives those quests needs to be fun, and pressing two buttons while facetanking a mob just isn't very fun for me anymore."
Hmmm, that describes WoW, GW2, RIFT, and just about every mmo out there depending on class you play.
It seems everyone wants "something new and ground breaking". FFXIV never promised any of that. They promised a great mmo, within the ff universe. They have delivered.
If you want something ground breaking and new EQN and CU are making promises. I'm not holding my breath they will deliver.
Comments
I'm at work, so I have long delays between posts. Sorry for that.
For 1) Consult my previous post.
Now that's actually a good argument for 2. I had heard from other people that once you complete all the one-and-done quests, that leveling a second job is substantially more difficult because of it. However, why are people randomly throwing away their old gear? You guys are making it seem like inventory space is going to be an issue with the armory chest. While there will undoubtedly be some inventory dissolved via materia creation, I still think people are forgetting other things. If you're leveling multiple jobs at the same time, you could easily recycle the gear. If you're not, you could just as easily level a craft and create your own armor set in what, 15 minutes for the level 1-15 equipment?
Yet again, I say it. You're looking at the consequences of having a level 50 already, but you're neglecting the fact that there's still 49 levels to get through FIRST.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I'm not defensive at all, in fact I don't even see a need to respond to your last post because I think people can read it themselves and see exactly what I would post.
That combat isn't faceroll, that crafting isn't useless, and that I am probably not the one who "needs to seek help" since again I am pretty happy playing this game.
You didn't really counter my last points, you just backpeddled on your own, and you still haven't even touched on 90% of my original post. People can play for themselves and read dozens of pages of feedback from others who have played FFXIV to plainly see that you haven't got the slightest idea what y ou are talking about I'm afraid.
Well okay that's not entirely true...
You are wrong that only 5% of players care about having better than NPC/Quest gear when they play (not that "twink gear" as you put it is the only source of income for crafters, or that this "twink gear" merely has "1-2 more attribute points" which have little to no effect on a character because none of that is true either).
And you don't have just one combo, with one branch for 2/3rds of the game. I wasn't going to respond to these at first because they are so obvious, but I don't want to be accused of just flaming you without reading your post.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
You're going to have a heart attack if you keep getting this stressed out.
If I was so isolated in my thoughts, than this thread would be filled with naysayers. It's not. You have like a 50/50 split of people who agree and disagree. I can't counter your points because you aren't making any. For someone who is so happy, you sure do seem to be mad.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Couldnt of explained it any better, Yoshi did explain the crafting system in a live dev letter earlier this year, and that it will become apparent at later levels crafting will have its place, he also made a statement explaining that he expects players to get the best gear from dungeons and it is working that way as intended. Highlighted text is similar to how it was in 1.0, players made a lot of gil with crafting gear for spiritbonding parties.
Here, for argument's sake, we'll take the exact same question on a different forum. Gauge responses accordingly.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/678050-final-fantasy-xiv-online-a-realm-reborn/66471907
There's a lot of people who have opinions similar to mine. They just aren't on MMORPG.com's forum.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
You really think there is a 50/50 split on this forum with people who agree with you and disagree? Cause I'm not seeing that, I'm also not seeing that in this thread since only Gandles has agreed with your assessment of the game. That is only 2 people, which doesn't make it a 50-50 split at all.
Please don't worry on my account though I take baby aspirin and I have a cup to catch all this rabid frothing from my just overwhelming and unrestrained rage at life, grrrr.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Been following this thread for a little while, but felt no need to post since it's just one person's opinion or worry about the future based on their preferences.
Though as a whole I have to agree with Murugan that there is no 50/50 split here or on any other forums I frequent. It's probably 95/5 at best just on what I've been seeing. Though that does not invalidate another's experience or the fact they may go to different forums. With regards to crafting, the potential for it being less useful for this game when compared to 1.0 is a possibility. But I'm sure that crafted items will be better than quest items, and dungeon items will be better than crafted items. In addition we'll have the whole color thing whereby quest items make you look like a clown and crafted items will likely be of the same color without any additional work to alter them.
Have people not ran Sastasha? Copperbell Mines? Tam-Tara Deepcroft? The three lowbie instances that actually kinda blew me away with such fun and interesting mechanics in the boss fights? I can only imagine what the late game stuff is. The game has been fun from the start - maybe not the fetch quests from 1-2 to introduce you to the city, but... after that everything is fascinating.
I love the story quests, the crafting is indeed very useful i can't see why some one would say that - people should prolly listen to the live producer letters with closed captioning turned on and read a lot of the points Yoshida talks about.
I think they have done a great job making the world engaging "BEFORE" level 50 and i only got to 22.
1) I can't really comment on the crafting, I know nothing about it.
2) People tend to have short attention spans, why are you going to take what a bunch of people are saying as final word? Just because a few people got bored 45 minutes in, doesn't mean you will. Are you one of those guys who looks at a movie review, then doesn't see the movie, just because it got a horrible review, even though, if you went to go see it, you'd probably love it?
3) I feel like combat is exactly 150% what they said they were going to do. "We are wanting a World of Warcraft in the Final Fantasy environment". I feel the combat is just that.
Between party groups, questing, fates, etc; I feel that FF: XIV has a great system to it, no, not unique, it's just 3 or 4 alternative ways to advance your character.
I feel like at this point, you did not read anything at all about the game, you knew nothing going in, and are now venting frustration because you did not read, and had no idea what you were getting yourself into.
I didn't experience that at all.
I'll take your remarks point by point.1) Crafting is, for all intensive purposes, going to be useless for nearly the entire game. Aside from the materia synthesis, there's essentially zero purpose to it whatsoever. From levels 1-30, I never once used or needed to craft/purchase any gear. This leads me to believe that there won't be much of an economy as a result, since there's no need to trade, either.
That's some rather heavy-handed conjecture there. People don't bother buying or selling stuff in a Beta because... well... it's a Beta. The character data is going to be wiped. There's no point to it. Getting gear as rewards you get as you level up is a good thing. It's there to make sure that, at the very least, you're not leveling into higher difficulty content and finding yourself ill-equipped for it. It provides basic utility to the player.
Crafting will become more useful as people settle in and find out what things are better as crafted, versus quest rewards, versus drops from dungeons, etc. The economy will develop as a value is determined by the players, via good old supply and demand. Just like it is in any other MMO with an economy players can influence.
Predicting the entirety of a game's economy or feasibility of crafting based on limited experience with it in a beta is rather absurd.
2) I saw a lot, like a whole lot, of players complaining about being bored within 45 minutes of playing. This doesn't bode well for me. Having a strong game that looks impressive and plays smoothly is incredibly underrated, but if your game can't compel people to keep playing it, than all that is irrelevant. I'm concerned about the retention power of 14.
Perhaps those were the only ones you were paying attention to? I saw a number of complaints as well. A lot of them were in the form of people complaining about something they didn't understand, or were attempting to approach as they would in any other MMO, but didn't work quite the same in XIV. Once people explained things to them, they were fine.
I saw far, far more compliments, praise and positivity. I also saw a lot of normal, pleasant conversation. People asking questions and being helped... people joking around, etc. All in all it was a very positive experience. One of the few times in a MMO I didn't need to hide the chat.
Still, both your experience and mine are anecdotal and, at the end of the day, really don't mean much in the big picture.
3) Combat is still spammy and boring. This wasn't addressed from closed beta. You're face-rolling your keyboard, or pressing 1 -> 2 for half the game. Though I was at least excited to see some placement skills and dodging of enemy skills being possible.
The early levels will be more "spammy" as they're only giving you a few basic attacks and such as you are learning. Once you hit level 10, you can train into other classes, learn their abilities, add them to your own and start forging your own personal playstyle. Or, you can stick to the skills provided solely for your starting class and rely entirely on those. How involved, or simple, the combat remains is up to you. Especially as you level up and more becomes available to you.
And then, of course, in parties, you'll find that your approach to playing changes as it's no longer "all about you", but rather "all about your team and your place in it".
Regarding your complaints about the gameplay and there being "too many quests".
Some of the things you're asked to do are more little "tasks" than anything else. They take no time to do and are there, really, for flavor. To introduce an NPC and ease you into their story, or whatever it is you're going to be helping them with. It's like walking into a store, to have the store keeper say "Dear, can you help me? I was startled by a spider on the counter and knocked some of my items on the floor there. Could you just pick them up for me?". And once you've done that, there's a kind of "connection" there. They're no longer just "some random, nameless and faceless quest dispenser". They're an individual, an actual "person" existing in this world, and you've just endeared yourself to them, and they to you. That's how they come across to me.
Of course, your approach of being cynical and wondering why they're there at all is certainly another way to look at it. Not as enjoyable or interesting a way to see it to me, but hey... To each their own.
As for your remark about them failing to "diversify the gameplay", I completely and vehemently disagree. In my time playing between Friday evening and all day yesterday, I was doing all kinds of stuff. Regular quests, story quests, exploring and attuning to new Aetheryte nodes, accessing new Chocobo route points, doing Leves, doing FATEs, doing story quests, completing tiers of my Hunter's Log... I was doing all kinds of things. Hell, I didn't even get around to trying any harvesting or crafting yet. I still have that to do at some point. My time was absolutely full, and it absolutely did not lack diversity. And this is still in Beta.
Perhaps your problem is that of many others? You spend all your time doing the same activity over and over again, never to stop and do something else when it gets boring, and then blame the game for it?
That brought me some chuckles, not gonna lie
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
This shall become my new mantra, if that's OK with you, Murugan. :P
The tape and the box set will go on retail for $9.95, not including S&H...
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
No other self help program is needed.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
For all the reasons in the OP, this game will be a giant failure IMO. Most likely just as bad and possibly worse than the original failure.
I was so bored I uninstalled in one hour. That's the first time any game has ever given me that response, even the original game did not. Sad to say this as it's hard to see my favourite games company has been dying like this lately.
I am with you on some of the concerns you posted. I am not sold on the simple game play at lower levels. The highest through all the betas I got was like 25, but the journey to that point was rather boring, combat skill wise. The combat animation and mechanics are smooth. The game engine plays 300 times better than the 1.0 version. The story line has been great with what I could experience in phase 3 (more voice over with all the text would be great!).
I agree with many other posts about the crafting. It will be essential. It always has been in FF games and will be here. I can see people by-passing it at low levels, but crafting will be essential at higher levels.
One thing I can say after going through all the phases of beta so far is that the combat needs more at lower levels. Not once did I feel like I needed to time any attack or defense ability. Only a few times did I realize how essential it is too move out of an enemies aoe telegraph. Combat wise I just did not feel challenged. Hopefully with the feedback the team will make appropriate changes... THEY HAVE DONE A FANTASTIC JOB SO FAR!
Except . . . the opposite is true from what I have seen all over the internet. : / Interest is booming everywhere, FFXIV is trending at the top on MMORPG.com for the first time, people here and on the beta forums are loving the game, saying it is NOT bland and VERY interesting.
Not saying all opinions are saying that, keep in mind. But I am seeing positive reactions everywhere.
So I think you just came up with that out of the blue.
Honestly, just skimming through your post history makes it very blatantly obvious that you are burnt out almost completely on the MMO genre as a whole. I just googled jaded.
jaded
adjective /j?did/
Tired, bored, or lacking enthusiasm, typically after having had too much of somethingCalling someone jaded has been the prime defense when someone calls a game generic and boring, I don't think people need to be "jaded" to see the boring factor of a game.
As for me, I'm afraid I have to agree with OP regarding combat and quests. I can't see how you can deny they are as generic as they have been a decade ago. It wasn't 5 minutes after the tutorial and introduction that I was already receiving more than a couple of "These bugs are causing us SO much terror, please kill 5 of them and report back to me!" quests. Are we not past the point of these generic, boring quests? You don't have to be jaded to see how typical they are, and by what I see it doesn't seem as though it gets any better.
And combat, you really exaggerate your claim on how many people find it exciting. I found it as typical and boring as it has ever been: slow auto-attack, sitting there waiting for the 1 second global cooldown pressing 1, 2 or 3. I am aware later you get moves that should be done from the back/sides, but I doubt this makes much of a difference. It really felt distant, not satisfactory or interactive at all. I see people already saying that "that is only for the first levels, it gets better later", but I think what is a game worth if it cannot even hook the player from the beginning?
That said, it is indeed a very polished and good-looking game. It is admirable in that regard, and in the world they created, but the combat and quests leave a lot to be desired. If you are to call me "jaded" as well, I will have you know I would be playing games like Vindictus and Rift were it not for the approaching summer courses. I only went out of my way to try the beta and am now sharing what I felt about it. Does that make me not jaded?
I like the game, but the quests are awful, and the combat is quite boring/lacking depth IMO. A single WoW ability for one spec of one class has more depth and adds more complexity to gameplay than every single ability I've seen in XIV.
I don't care how charming the writing is for the quests. The gameplay that drives those quests needs to be fun, and pressing two buttons while facetanking a mob just isn't very fun for me anymore.
OVERALL RATING : 7/10 Enjoyable and playable but not super exciting or great. < Explanation Below >
I played the beta this weekend. I found it to be an ok experience overall but not exciting.
I saw a Huge social base for a new game coming out already forming in this short weekend beta and i believe the game will be enjoyable for play and social aspects for a great deal number of folks.
I also believe due to market timing it will be bigger then expected sell for Square enix as many long time gamers are looking for something to " sink thier teeth into " and this, thou not a super game imho, does meet enough gaming criteria to satisfy a huge player base .
I think no matter what your game play level experience you are looking for now is, that this game will provide enough of it to be playable and enjoyable to a satisfactory level, and add the social aspects and you got a Winner.
Combat and other aspects of gameplay didnt feel New , per say, but are acceptable. I found few bugs in this beta test. The game overall is very smooth. Character creation is very good. Lots of UI options and other features many prefer in a modern game.
I wasnt thinking to buy this game. After playing it this weekend i would highly encourage anyone interested even remotely to sign up for beta and make sure you get in some of the beta play < even if its the upcoming open beta > I am thinking i might purchase it myself soon, i want to play a bit more in the beta before i fully decide. Good Luck to you all!
I played the beta all weekend long on PS3 and absolutely loved it.
Wish I could have played on PC but the PS3 version is very well done. Brilliant UI layout, and one of the better looking games on the PS3. I will definitely be there on launch day.
As good as the music always is , I miss the acoustical guitar that FFXI had.
30 yd range
Requires level 90
I played WoW for about a year. Ive a 90 dk, 85 rogue,65 warlock and 24 pld. Your post is rediculous. How many abilities did you see in a short weekend beta? I pasted an ability from Wow. Where is the complexity and depth of this ability?
Youre comparing the first 20 some lvls of a BETA, to a game thats been around for 9 years with 4 expansions and over a hundred updates.
"I don't care how charming the writing is for the quests. The gameplay that drives those quests needs to be fun, and pressing two buttons while facetanking a mob just isn't very fun for me anymore."
Hmmm, that describes WoW, GW2, RIFT, and just about every mmo out there depending on class you play.
It seems everyone wants "something new and ground breaking". FFXIV never promised any of that. They promised a great mmo, within the ff universe. They have delivered.
If you want something ground breaking and new EQN and CU are making promises. I'm not holding my breath they will deliver.