Hehe ... you called me a sucker , (along with millions of others) for having bought played and enjoyed wow and yet do not want me to respond negatively cause you asked nicely. By saying that you were generalizing is just saying "most of us were sucker". Sure wow wasnt inovative... yet it did what many wanted , took out most of the grind and timesinks many didnt like of the older mmo's. Obviously without timesinks and grinds people will roll through the content quicker and do everthing there is to do.
Originally posted by kable Hehe ... you called me a sucker , (along with millions of others) for having bought played and enjoyed wow and yet do not want me to respond negatively cause you asked nicely. By saying that you were generalizing is just saying "most of us were sucker". Sure wow wasnt inovative... yet it did what many wanted , took out most of the grind and timesinks many didnt like of the older mmo's. Obviously without timesinks and grinds people will roll through the content quicker and do everthing there is to do.
In response to rolling threw content quicker and doing everything.
Except godblessed PVP. PvP is the only content I really enjoy and I dont even go out ganking unless my guild is doing that, I mostly like PVP group battles. PVP is the content of the Gods!
Originally posted by kable Hehe ... you called me a sucker , (along with millions of others) for having bought played and enjoyed wow and yet do not want me to respond negatively cause you asked nicely. By saying that you were generalizing is just saying "most of us were sucker".
Whilst that was obviously not my intention, I won't say that you're wrong. Instead, I'll give you some reassurance: Don't worry mate, being a sucker happens to all of us. I'm a sucker for AO because it was my first MMO game. Right now I'm grinding my engineer up to level 150. Is the grind fun? Nope! Is the grind innovative and original? Not really! At least I can admit it, and even focus on the bloody topic.
First let me just say, I really wasnt insulted on your sucker remark, however by disagreeing I am point blank on topic, since your 3 catagorys of wow subscribers are your premise and reasoning. I actually believe the peope that fit into your catagorys actually make up less then 10% of the subscribers combined. The other 90% play or played cause they are or were having fun.
Give the consumer a bit more credit, they arent all mindless clones following the herd. Look soe use to be the big boy in the mmorpg world and came out with swg( you can not get more hype then starwars) yet the game wasnt that graet and was rejected by the consumers and the critics alike.
Sure people will eventually get bored with anygame...but they are only suckers if they keep playing after they are no longer having fun
A lot of people seem to want the same collection of major features in every new game. Is that really practical? Is it innovative? Can you even make a game that would satisfy the PVP camp without driving away the casual players? Can you make a game that centers around a FEW of those abilities without the forums getting spammed with people complaining that the game doesn't include their style?
A lot of people seem to keep on buying Fantasy-Medieval style games, even though thats been the theme of most MMO's since Ultima Online and was the major theme of the RPGs before that. I don't buy this idea that the devs in all the major publishers are in some kind of "Lazy Developer's Union" that is dedicated to churning out Fantasy-Medieval games. I just saw a comment today that said it was "Too bad" Anarchy Online wasn't in that genre...
Here's another thing that bugs me, this "innovation" is often as not getting treated like its some single magic idea that will fix the everything. Like we're all on some quest to the Innovation that will save the genre! Maybe its a magic glowing rock someplace, I swear its like a myth. My bet is there are a helluva lot of Innovations, many of which are mutually exclusive and will not make the perfect balance between casual gamers, hardcore pvp twinks, crafters, explorers, and social gamers. Moreover, even if an Innovation is put in, chances are a large vocal minority will detest it.
And of course, I'm more willing to believe that a lot of the most interesting, innovative ideas couldn't be implemented in an MMO anyway. "Dune" has managed to resist virtually all transferences onto other media. Its also a complex universe where the sorts of things we expect when watching Star Trek/Wars are utterly taboo. Could you implement the work of Vernor Vinge like "A Fire Upon The Deep" into an MMO? Well no. You can't have players interacting with civilizations turned into single over-minds in perfect harmony with their automation (or possibly being destroyed by their own creations) because you don't have a frigging clue how such entities would behave. Wheres the Slower-Than-Light travel game? No one seems to be demanding ramscoops. Also a deep, complex idea. Sci-Fi seems to mostly end up back at the Star Trek/Wars. Human-equivalent machines, not super beings (or the reverse, the banning of all intelligent machines of any kind). Light speed travel widely availible, not the suspended animation or in Dune's case extremely expensive FTL.
So here's a scenerio, you're a game developer. Your quest? To "feed the childrens and pay the mortgage". You can go implement your ideas, ignore the hefty dissent that is absolutely certain to rear its head, and risk your game bombing. Or you can appeal to the least common denominator that has worked for years and sold countless UOs/EQs/WoWs with years of subscriptions on top of that.
Comments
Hehe ... you called me a sucker , (along with millions of others) for having bought played and enjoyed wow and yet do not want me to respond negatively cause you asked nicely. By saying that you were generalizing is just saying "most of us were sucker". Sure wow wasnt inovative... yet it did what many wanted , took out most of the grind and timesinks many didnt like of the older mmo's. Obviously without timesinks and grinds people will roll through the content quicker and do everthing there is to do.
Except godblessed PVP. PvP is the only content I really enjoy and I dont even go out ganking unless my guild is doing that, I mostly like PVP group battles. PVP is the content of the Gods!
Cheers Signe! I'll move on then.
Whilst that was obviously not my intention, I won't say that you're wrong. Instead, I'll give you some reassurance:
Don't worry mate, being a sucker happens to all of us. I'm a sucker for AO because it was my first MMO game. Right now I'm grinding my engineer up to level 150. Is the grind fun? Nope! Is the grind innovative and original? Not really! At least I can admit it, and even focus on the bloody topic.
First let me just say, I really wasnt insulted on your sucker remark, however by disagreeing I am point blank on topic, since your 3 catagorys of wow subscribers are your premise and reasoning. I actually believe the peope that fit into your catagorys actually make up less then 10% of the subscribers combined. The other 90% play or played cause they are or were having fun.
Give the consumer a bit more credit, they arent all mindless clones following the herd. Look soe use to be the big boy in the mmorpg world and came out with swg( you can not get more hype then starwars) yet the game wasnt that graet and was rejected by the consumers and the critics alike.
Sure people will eventually get bored with anygame...but they are only suckers if they keep playing after they are no longer having fun
Does innovation sell? I'm just not so sure.
A lot of people seem to want the same collection of major features in every new game. Is that really practical? Is it innovative? Can you even make a game that would satisfy the PVP camp without driving away the casual players? Can you make a game that centers around a FEW of those abilities without the forums getting spammed with people complaining that the game doesn't include their style?
A lot of people seem to keep on buying Fantasy-Medieval style games, even though thats been the theme of most MMO's since Ultima Online and was the major theme of the RPGs before that. I don't buy this idea that the devs in all the major publishers are in some kind of "Lazy Developer's Union" that is dedicated to churning out Fantasy-Medieval games. I just saw a comment today that said it was "Too bad" Anarchy Online wasn't in that genre...
Here's another thing that bugs me, this "innovation" is often as not getting treated like its some single magic idea that will fix the everything. Like we're all on some quest to the Innovation that will save the genre! Maybe its a magic glowing rock someplace, I swear its like a myth. My bet is there are a helluva lot of Innovations, many of which are mutually exclusive and will not make the perfect balance between casual gamers, hardcore pvp twinks, crafters, explorers, and social gamers. Moreover, even if an Innovation is put in, chances are a large vocal minority will detest it.
And of course, I'm more willing to believe that a lot of the most interesting, innovative ideas couldn't be implemented in an MMO anyway. "Dune" has managed to resist virtually all transferences onto other media. Its also a complex universe where the sorts of things we expect when watching Star Trek/Wars are utterly taboo. Could you implement the work of Vernor Vinge like "A Fire Upon The Deep" into an MMO? Well no. You can't have players interacting with civilizations turned into single over-minds in perfect harmony with their automation (or possibly being destroyed by their own creations) because you don't have a frigging clue how such entities would behave. Wheres the Slower-Than-Light travel game? No one seems to be demanding ramscoops. Also a deep, complex idea. Sci-Fi seems to mostly end up back at the Star Trek/Wars. Human-equivalent machines, not super beings (or the reverse, the banning of all intelligent machines of any kind). Light speed travel widely availible, not the suspended animation or in Dune's case extremely expensive FTL.
So here's a scenerio, you're a game developer. Your quest? To "feed the childrens and pay the mortgage". You can go implement your ideas, ignore the hefty dissent that is absolutely certain to rear its head, and risk your game bombing. Or you can appeal to the least common denominator that has worked for years and sold countless UOs/EQs/WoWs with years of subscriptions on top of that.