The question I had asked a year ago still remains unanswered. Full loot system? Fine. But if I am paying real world money to purchase in-game money for items, then stealing said money and items borders on real life criminal activity. What is RV's response to this?
It is different if I pay a monthly fee as I am paying for a service. But it seems to me this revenue model RV pursues has some serious ethical issues surrounding it.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Originally posted by Cerion The question I had asked a year ago still remains unanswered. Full loot system? Fine. But if I am paying real world money to purchase in-game money for items, then stealing said money and items borders on real life criminal activity. What is RV's response to this?It is different if I pay a monthly fee as I am paying for a service. But it seems to me this revenue model RV pursues has some serious ethical issues surrounding it.
I do not think so.....although i dont like this system
Originally posted by Cerion The question I had asked a year ago still remains unanswered. Full loot system? Fine. But if I am paying real world money to purchase in-game money for items, then stealing said money and items borders on real life criminal activity. What is RV's response to this?It is different if I pay a monthly fee as I am paying for a service. But it seems to me this revenue model RV pursues has some serious ethical issues surrounding it.
You are not really buying money or items. It rather of a donation to the company and they reward you for doing it. So you are really not buying money but donating and recieving a reward for supporting the company. So the money you "donate" will no longer belong to you because you are giving it to the company so if you are "ganked" and lose all the money or items you got from the reward, It might cause some serious ethical issues if it is considered as "buying" but this is "donating" with a reward on the side. I think there will be no problem if it considered as donating to the company and you are rewared. The only thing you buy is the CD key(and game box if you buy it)
I have to agree with full looting and having bandits and such because it will give an excitement to the game. I might change my mind on being "evil" and killing people but be the best Warrior on one on one combat with untold strenght.
Like all MMORPG's with looting it is like gambling, since your items(in pretty much all MMORPG's) are worth real world money. It has been going on for as long as MMORPG's have been out.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open. Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
Originally posted by Cerion The question I had asked a year ago still remains unanswered. Full loot system? Fine. But if I am paying real world money to purchase in-game money for items, then stealing said money and items borders on real life criminal activity. What is RV's response to this? It is different if I pay a monthly fee as I am paying for a service. But it seems to me this revenue model RV pursues has some serious ethical issues surrounding it.
Yes it does.
There is a big difference between losing items/coin you bought from the second hand market of resold items/coin earned thru expended effort in-game, which is your choice, and losing coin that the developers sell directly as part of their coercive revenue system.
It all fits nicely together to yield maximum profit.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Wow, such much flaming and name calling. Anywhoo, full looting isnt a bad idea. It is an unconventional way of PvP, but it is realistic. This isn't a game for people who wish to hide behind the fantasy rules of coins popping out of creatures or magic or weapons that are clearly superior. RV is for people who want to enjoy how Romans or Barbarians lived. In respect to full looting, you don't have a need to carry 4 or 5 different suits of armor, especially since you can only wear one. Even if you are travelling to go sell your armors, you wouldn't travel alone. And on a battlefield, I doubt anyone is going to loot you while in a battle.
Originally posted by Jorev There is a big difference between losing items/coin you bought from the second hand market of resold items/coin earned thru expended effort in-game, which is your choice, and losing coin that the developers sell directly as part of their coercive revenue system. It all fits nicely together to yield maximum profit.
It is the players choice to purchase in game money, they can also earn it in game just like any other MMORPG. So, as you said, it's the players choice. Some of the players in the Commercial Test have figured this out and through work, have donated little to no real life money...and this is without full game mechanics turned on.
Lot of sniping in this thread, and for no reason. The game is going to have full looting and this is a thrilling way to play. It's called fun, and if that's not fun for you then it's your choice not to play it. But calling it stupid or bad is just your opinion, which much like a$$holes, everyone has.
Full looting gives the game an edge and a vitality that is lacking from almost every other MMORPG on the market. UO had full looting and it didn't ruin the game. Resources were abundant as were the crafters who used them. It might have sucked to get your whole suit of armor, weapon and shield looted as well as your potions and bandages and gold, but anyone who played any length of time had chests and chests full of suits of armor and kegs full of potions, not to mention a spinning wheel and crafter alt who could make thousands of bandages at a whim.
In closing, full looting is an exciting part of a PVP game. Not something that will set a player back 6 months, but still something that a player will wish to avoid at all costs! Imagine dying actually meaning something!
*obligatory if you don't want a challenge go play WoW comment*
Originally posted by Jorev There is a big difference between losing items/coin you bought from the second hand market of resold items/coin earned thru expended effort in-game, which is your choice, and losing coin that the developers sell directly as part of their coercive revenue system. It all fits nicely together to yield maximum profit.
It is the players choice to purchase in game money, they can also earn it in game just like any other MMORPG. So, as you said, it's the players choice. Some of the players in the Commercial Test have figured this out and through work, have donated little to no real life money...and this is without full game mechanics turned on.
What about the "Many" players who are expected to buy in-game coin with real money, as your website states. Do they have a choice since your website states that the ease at which in-game coin can be earned will be adjusted in direct proportion to how much in-game coin is purchased with real money directly from the developers?
Why do you call purchases donations? Who are you trying to kid?
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Originally posted by anarchyart Lot of sniping in this thread, and for no reason. The game is going to have full looting and this is a thrilling way to play. It's called fun, and if that's not fun for you then it's your choice not to play it. But calling it stupid or bad is just your opinion, which much like a$$holes, everyone has. Full looting gives the game an edge and a vitality that is lacking from almost every other MMORPG on the market. UO had full looting and it didn't ruin the game. Resources were abundant as were the crafters who used them. It might have sucked to get your whole suit of armor, weapon and shield looted as well as your potions and bandages and gold, but anyone who played any length of time had chests and chests full of suits of armor and kegs full of potions, not to mention a spinning wheel and crafter alt who could make thousands of bandages at a whim. In closing, full looting is an exciting part of a PVP game. Not something that will set a player back 6 months, but still something that a player will wish to avoid at all costs! Imagine dying actually meaning something! *obligatory if you don't want a challenge go play WoW comment*
As far as full looting in general terms goes, yes if you don't like the concept, play an easy game like WoW or EQ2.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Let me clarify a bit. I'm in the beta test for RV. I love it. I've donated money to the cause (as everyone who supports innovative game play should do!). I'm just concerned about the ramifications of this revenue model. Let me also emphasize that the devs at RV are great people--I don't distrust them. I am willing to see how it works during launch.
But the system troubles me on a gut level. Buying or donating, call it what you will, in game Sesterces that are then used to purchase items that can be stolen and then resold on Ebay for real money, there's a huge incentive, moreso than in any other MMO, to gank and steal. In WoW, Ebayers farm NPCs. In RV, the potential exists for players to farm other players.
Given the power of places such as IGE to launder their money and assemble efficient groups, I'm worried.
Please don't take this as 'I hate full loot so I'm gonna whine' post. It's not. I want a game like RV to succeed. God knows we need such a game. That is my motivation and thus my concern.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Yes Jorev, we expect many to choose to use the VERM. We can adjust it so you get in game money easier if we find the average player having problems enjoying the game without using the VERM. The average person will put out far less money for RV per month than they do for other MMORPGs, we've always said that. Some will pay more, some will pay nothing.
You seem to see the cloud in every silver lining, but that's what Trolls do, I just enjoy talking to them.
Further to Cerion's post, I can see why you and other people are concerned by this but once you put it into perspective - I don't think there is an issue.
The real key factor is there are no uber items in RV, nothing that ensures you can beat player X because he has a +11 gladius etc, therefore the 3rd party (IGE) market will not exist. There will be items of value such as high quality armour for Romans but they are unlikely to put they're best gear on & go for a wander alone in the unprotected barbarian areas - why would they?
The real valuable items in RV will be land & property and it's not easy to steal a building and difficult to attack when NPC guards are employed to defend property. Another important factor to consider is that everything in the game can be crafted or built by players, if I lose my sword I can easily make another one or go to friend, guild, NPC and purchase another one. Other than land or property items in RV will cost just a few cents, real high quality armour might cost a dollar or more. You will never see a Gladius or piece of armour on sale at IGE for $400 - it will never happen.
This is just my opinion from the info I've read & the way I see it working, I can't say I'm in the beta cause the NDA hasn't been lifted yet, but if I was I'd say I was loving it as well.
I have gone back and forth about the full looting. It wasnt something that I was familiar with, and unfortuantely I got rather rude responses at first. But, if you will go back and read the ot her responses in this thread, you willl find a pretty good explanation of full loooting.
After reading Frerox's description of full lootoing. It sounds like fun, and after reading the official website, I have confidence that the devs will adjust where they need to.
As lont as it doesnt affect immersion/reality. I guess my point is, that i was sceptical; but I think the devs deserve a chance and in fact an applause, for trying to do something different. The more research that i do, the more convinced that i am that if its a major inequity, that the devs will address it. Otherwise, prepare yourself for full fledged roman combat. Let the weak, move aside.
More power to Red Bedlam.....may the rest fall in line.....
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
A thought I just had is, that if there are farming groups, the only way to get money from NPC's is by killing human ones in areas not under Roman authority. This would mean that they have to risk pvp the whole time. Also, they would have to store money somewhere whether it comes from players or NPC's. Then they would run the risk of someone stumbling upon this house(with many guards) and think there must obviously be something good inside. They watch and see some people they know are farmers go in. Then they might round up some friends and destroy/loot the place.
Also, after all this extra effort not usually involved, they would have to sell for less then RB.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open. Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
Originally posted by Entreri28 A thought I just had is, that if there are farming groups, the only way to get money from NPC's is by killing human ones in areas not under Roman authority. This would mean that they have to risk pvp the whole time. Also, they would have to store money somewhere whether it comes from players or NPC's. Then they would run the risk of someone stumbling upon this house(with many guards) and think there must obviously be something good inside. They watch and see some people they know are farmers go in. Then they might round up some friends and destroy/loot the place. Also, after all this extra effort not usually involved, they would have to sell for less then RB.
The way I understand it, if you loot within the Roman city limits you are gonna face the praetorian guard (or some equilivelant ). So, there will be consequences to ganking some poor noob.
The Devs seem really respondent to the players, so I think they will address any problems that arise.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Originally posted by Kanoth Yes Jorev, we expect many to choose to use the VERM. We can adjust it so you get in game money easier if we find the average player having problems enjoying the game without using the VERM. The average person will put out far less money for RV per month than they do for other MMORPGs, we've always said that. Some will pay more, some will pay nothing. You seem to see the cloud in every silver lining, but that's what Trolls do, I just enjoy talking to them.
Hehe, well said.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Originally posted by Kanoth Yes Jorev, we expect many to choose to use the VERM. We can adjust it so you get in game money easier if we find the average player having problems enjoying the game without using the VERM. The average person will put out far less money for RV per month than they do for other MMORPGs, we've always said that. Some will pay more, some will pay nothing. You seem to see the cloud in every silver lining, but that's what Trolls do, I just enjoy talking to them.
Actually that is another untruth. You have not previously committed to a finite monthly purchase limit on in-game coin per account, and certainly not one that is less than the average subscription rate. I have previously asked for such a commitment and not gotten one.
Are you now saying that RV is going to limit in-game coin purchases to less than $15 US, the average subscription rate, per month per account? If you are willing to set that in stone, I will have no further disputes with RedBedlam about the revenue system, and will only continue criticizing the preorder in-game advantages.
Also let's be honest for a moment if you are capable of it. Logically, if you can adjust the game mechanics to make it easier to earn in-game coin, then you can conversely adjust them to make it harder in order to influence the purchase of in-game coin, which is something you will have to do, if you rely solely on the VERM, and those sales are lacking.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Originally posted by Kanoth Yes Jorev, we expect many to choose to use the VERM. We can adjust it so you get in game money easier if we find the average player having problems enjoying the game without using the VERM. The average person will put out far less money for RV per month than they do for other MMORPGs, we've always said that. Some will pay more, some will pay nothing. You seem to see the cloud in every silver lining, but that's what Trolls do, I just enjoy talking to them.
Actually that is another untruth. You have not previously committed to a finite monthly purchase limit on in-game coin per account, and certainly not one that is less than the average subscription rate. I have previously asked for such a commitment and not gotten one.
Are you now saying that RV is going to limit in-game coin purchases to less than $15 US, the average subscription rate, per month per account? If you are willing to set that in stone, I will have no further disputes with RedBedlam about the revenue system, and will only continue criticizing the preorder in-game advantages.
Also let's be honest for a moment if you are capable of it. Logically, if you can adjust the game mechanics to make it easier to earn in-game coin, then you can conversely adjust them to make it harder in order to influence the purchase of in-game coin, which is something you will have to do, if you rely solely on the VERM, and those sales are lacking.
What preorder in-game advantages are you referring to? And why do you feel the need to criticize the game at all?
If you arent interested in the game and dislike the revenue system, why not just bugger off?
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Originally posted by Kanoth Yes Jorev, we expect many to choose to use the VERM. We can adjust it so you get in game money easier if we find the average player having problems enjoying the game without using the VERM. The average person will put out far less money for RV per month than they do for other MMORPGs, we've always said that. Some will pay more, some will pay nothing. You seem to see the cloud in every silver lining, but that's what Trolls do, I just enjoy talking to them.
Actually that is another untruth. You have not previously committed to a finite monthly purchase limit on in-game coin per account, and certainly not one that is less than the average subscription rate. I have previously asked for such a commitment and not gotten one.
Are you now saying that RV is going to limit in-game coin purchases to less than $15 US, the average subscription rate, per month per account? If you are willing to set that in stone, I will have no further disputes with RedBedlam about the revenue system, and will only continue criticizing the preorder in-game advantages.
Also let's be honest for a moment if you are capable of it. Logically, if you can adjust the game mechanics to make it easier to earn in-game coin, then you can conversely adjust them to make it harder in order to influence the purchase of in-game coin, which is something you will have to do, if you rely solely on the VERM, and those sales are lacking.
What preorder in-game advantages are you referring to? And why do you feel the need to criticize the game at all?
If you arent interested in the game and dislike the revenue system, why not just bugger off?
The preorder in-game advantage of being able to have a 2 week headstart over retail customers.
I didn't realize this site and these forums were only about saying positive things about games, I seem to have missed that rule. Perhaps you should bugger off if you can't take the criticism?
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Originally posted by Kanoth Yes Jorev, we expect many to choose to use the VERM. We can adjust it so you get in game money easier if we find the average player having problems enjoying the game without using the VERM. The average person will put out far less money for RV per month than they do for other MMORPGs, we've always said that. Some will pay more, some will pay nothing. You seem to see the cloud in every silver lining, but that's what Trolls do, I just enjoy talking to them.
Actually that is another untruth. You have not previously committed to a finite monthly purchase limit on in-game coin per account, and certainly not one that is less than the average subscription rate. I have previously asked for such a commitment and not gotten one.
Are you now saying that RV is going to limit in-game coin purchases to less than $15 US, the average subscription rate, per month per account? If you are willing to set that in stone, I will have no further disputes with RedBedlam about the revenue system, and will only continue criticizing the preorder in-game advantages.
Also let's be honest for a moment if you are capable of it. Logically, if you can adjust the game mechanics to make it easier to earn in-game coin, then you can conversely adjust them to make it harder in order to influence the purchase of in-game coin, which is something you will have to do, if you rely solely on the VERM, and those sales are lacking.
What preorder in-game advantages are you referring to? And why do you feel the need to criticize the game at all?
If you arent interested in the game and dislike the revenue system, why not just bugger off?
The preorder in-game advantage of being able to have a 2 week headstart over retail customers.
I didn't realize this site and these forums were only about saying positive things about games, I seem to have missed that rule. Perhaps you should bugger off if you can't take the criticism?
Hmm, I dont see how opening up the game a few weeks early for pre orders is a bad thing. Whats wrong with rewarding the people who help you make the game?
Regardless, its not that I mind criticsm in any form or fashion, its just that I was surprised that you would bother following a game you clearly dont like or approve of. Just seems like a waste of time is all.....
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
I think what Kanoth meant by the average player will pay less is some will pay more and some will pay nothing while others pay about $15(like he said in his post). If you have 5000 players and $3000 from sesterces then that is only about $.60 per person. If that is just 10 people that each donated $300 or it is 3000 people that each donated $1 it comes out to be $.6 when you average it. Even if there was only 3000 players and they took in $3000 that is only $1 per person. I am guessing that there will be at least 25% that never purchase sesterces. Probably another 50% will buy them every couple months or so. The last 25% maybe buy $15 every month.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open. Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
I just read through the first few pages of this post and everybody has missed this point: you CANNOT say full looting is bad simply because it would be bad for ANOTHER game. If you design the game around full looting and make items cheap and easily replaceable, full looting then becomes a GOOD idea.
Comments
The question I had asked a year ago still remains unanswered. Full loot system? Fine. But if I am paying real world money to purchase in-game money for items, then stealing said money and items borders on real life criminal activity. What is RV's response to this?
It is different if I pay a monthly fee as I am paying for a service. But it seems to me this revenue model RV pursues has some serious ethical issues surrounding it.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
You are not really buying money or items. It rather of a donation to the company and they reward you for doing it. So you are really not buying money but donating and recieving a reward for supporting the company. So the money you "donate" will no longer belong to you because you are giving it to the company so if you are "ganked" and lose all the money or items you got from the reward, It might cause some serious ethical issues if it is considered as "buying" but this is "donating" with a reward on the side. I think there will be no problem if it considered as donating to the company and you are rewared. The only thing you buy is the CD key(and game box if you buy it)
I have to agree with full looting and having bandits and such because it will give an excitement to the game. I might change my mind on being "evil" and killing people but be the best Warrior on one on one combat with untold strenght
Like all MMORPG's with looting it is like gambling, since your items(in pretty much all MMORPG's) are worth real world money. It has been going on for as long as MMORPG's have been out.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
Yes it does.
There is a big difference between losing items/coin you bought from the second hand market of resold items/coin earned thru expended effort in-game, which is your choice, and losing coin that the developers sell directly as part of their coercive revenue system.
It all fits nicely together to yield maximum profit.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
It is the players choice to purchase in game money, they can also earn it in game just like any other MMORPG. So, as you said, it's the players choice. Some of the players in the Commercial Test have figured this out and through work, have donated little to no real life money...and this is without full game mechanics turned on.
"Rome wasn't coded in a day"
- Kanoth
Lot of sniping in this thread, and for no reason. The game is going to have full looting and this is a thrilling way to play. It's called fun, and if that's not fun for you then it's your choice not to play it. But calling it stupid or bad is just your opinion, which much like a$$holes, everyone has.
Full looting gives the game an edge and a vitality that is lacking from almost every other MMORPG on the market. UO had full looting and it didn't ruin the game. Resources were abundant as were the crafters who used them. It might have sucked to get your whole suit of armor, weapon and shield looted as well as your potions and bandages and gold, but anyone who played any length of time had chests and chests full of suits of armor and kegs full of potions, not to mention a spinning wheel and crafter alt who could make thousands of bandages at a whim.
In closing, full looting is an exciting part of a PVP game. Not something that will set a player back 6 months, but still something that a player will wish to avoid at all costs! Imagine dying actually meaning something!
*obligatory if you don't want a challenge go play WoW comment*
It is the players choice to purchase in game money, they can also earn it in game just like any other MMORPG. So, as you said, it's the players choice. Some of the players in the Commercial Test have figured this out and through work, have donated little to no real life money...and this is without full game mechanics turned on.
What about the "Many" players who are expected to buy in-game coin with real money, as your website states. Do they have a choice since your website states that the ease at which in-game coin can be earned will be adjusted in direct proportion to how much in-game coin is purchased with real money directly from the developers?
Why do you call purchases donations? Who are you trying to kid?
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
Let me clarify a bit. I'm in the beta test for RV. I love it. I've donated money to the cause (as everyone who supports innovative game play should do!). I'm just concerned about the ramifications of this revenue model. Let me also emphasize that the devs at RV are great people--I don't distrust them. I am willing to see how it works during launch.
But the system troubles me on a gut level. Buying or donating, call it what you will, in game Sesterces that are then used to purchase items that can be stolen and then resold on Ebay for real money, there's a huge incentive, moreso than in any other MMO, to gank and steal. In WoW, Ebayers farm NPCs. In RV, the potential exists for players to farm other players.
Given the power of places such as IGE to launder their money and assemble efficient groups, I'm worried.
Please don't take this as 'I hate full loot so I'm gonna whine' post. It's not. I want a game like RV to succeed. God knows we need such a game. That is my motivation and thus my concern.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Yes Jorev, we expect many to choose to use the VERM. We can adjust it so you get in game money easier if we find the average player having problems enjoying the game without using the VERM. The average person will put out far less money for RV per month than they do for other MMORPGs, we've always said that. Some will pay more, some will pay nothing.
You seem to see the cloud in every silver lining, but that's what Trolls do, I just enjoy talking to them.
"Rome wasn't coded in a day"
- Kanoth
Further to Cerion's post, I can see why you and other people are concerned by this but once you put it into perspective - I don't think there is an issue.
The real key factor is there are no uber items in RV, nothing that ensures you can beat player X because he has a +11 gladius etc, therefore the 3rd party (IGE) market will not exist. There will be items of value such as high quality armour for Romans but they are unlikely to put they're best gear on & go for a wander alone in the unprotected barbarian areas - why would they?
The real valuable items in RV will be land & property and it's not easy to steal a building and difficult to attack when NPC guards are employed to defend property. Another important factor to consider is that everything in the game can be crafted or built by players, if I lose my sword I can easily make another one or go to friend, guild, NPC and purchase another one. Other than land or property items in RV will cost just a few cents, real high quality armour might cost a dollar or more. You will never see a Gladius or piece of armour on sale at IGE for $400 - it will never happen.
This is just my opinion from the info I've read & the way I see it working, I can't say I'm in the beta cause the NDA hasn't been lifted yet, but if I was I'd say I was loving it as well.
I have gone back and forth about the full looting. It wasnt something that I was familiar with, and unfortuantely I got rather rude responses at first. But, if you will go back and read the ot her responses in this thread, you willl find a pretty good explanation of full loooting.
After reading Frerox's description of full lootoing. It sounds like fun, and after reading the official website, I have confidence that the devs will adjust where they need to.
As lont as it doesnt affect immersion/reality. I guess my point is, that i was sceptical; but I think the devs deserve a chance and in fact an applause, for trying to do something different. The more research that i do, the more convinced that i am that if its a major inequity, that the devs will address it. Otherwise, prepare yourself for full fledged roman combat. Let the weak, move aside.
More power to Red Bedlam.....may the rest fall in line.....
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
A thought I just had is, that if there are farming groups, the only way to get money from NPC's is by killing human ones in areas not under Roman authority. This would mean that they have to risk pvp the whole time. Also, they would have to store money somewhere whether it comes from players or NPC's. Then they would run the risk of someone stumbling upon this house(with many guards) and think there must obviously be something good inside. They watch and see some people they know are farmers go in. Then they might round up some friends and destroy/loot the place.
Also, after all this extra effort not usually involved, they would have to sell for less then RB.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
The way I understand it, if you loot within the Roman city limits you are gonna face the praetorian guard (or some equilivelant ). So, there will be consequences to ganking some poor noob.
The Devs seem really respondent to the players, so I think they will address any problems that arise.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Actually that is another untruth. You have not previously committed to a finite monthly purchase limit on in-game coin per account, and certainly not one that is less than the average subscription rate. I have previously asked for such a commitment and not gotten one.
Are you now saying that RV is going to limit in-game coin purchases to less than $15 US, the average subscription rate, per month per account? If you are willing to set that in stone, I will have no further disputes with RedBedlam about the revenue system, and will only continue criticizing the preorder in-game advantages.
Also let's be honest for a moment if you are capable of it. Logically, if you can adjust the game mechanics to make it easier to earn in-game coin, then you can conversely adjust them to make it harder in order to influence the purchase of in-game coin, which is something you will have to do, if you rely solely on the VERM, and those sales are lacking.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
Actually that is another untruth. You have not previously committed to a finite monthly purchase limit on in-game coin per account, and certainly not one that is less than the average subscription rate. I have previously asked for such a commitment and not gotten one.
Are you now saying that RV is going to limit in-game coin purchases to less than $15 US, the average subscription rate, per month per account? If you are willing to set that in stone, I will have no further disputes with RedBedlam about the revenue system, and will only continue criticizing the preorder in-game advantages.
Also let's be honest for a moment if you are capable of it. Logically, if you can adjust the game mechanics to make it easier to earn in-game coin, then you can conversely adjust them to make it harder in order to influence the purchase of in-game coin, which is something you will have to do, if you rely solely on the VERM, and those sales are lacking.
What preorder in-game advantages are you referring to? And why do you feel the need to criticize the game at all?
If you arent interested in the game and dislike the revenue system, why not just bugger off?
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Actually that is another untruth. You have not previously committed to a finite monthly purchase limit on in-game coin per account, and certainly not one that is less than the average subscription rate. I have previously asked for such a commitment and not gotten one.
Are you now saying that RV is going to limit in-game coin purchases to less than $15 US, the average subscription rate, per month per account? If you are willing to set that in stone, I will have no further disputes with RedBedlam about the revenue system, and will only continue criticizing the preorder in-game advantages.
Also let's be honest for a moment if you are capable of it. Logically, if you can adjust the game mechanics to make it easier to earn in-game coin, then you can conversely adjust them to make it harder in order to influence the purchase of in-game coin, which is something you will have to do, if you rely solely on the VERM, and those sales are lacking.
What preorder in-game advantages are you referring to? And why do you feel the need to criticize the game at all?
If you arent interested in the game and dislike the revenue system, why not just bugger off?
The preorder in-game advantage of being able to have a 2 week headstart over retail customers.
I didn't realize this site and these forums were only about saying positive things about games, I seem to have missed that rule. Perhaps you should bugger off if you can't take the criticism?
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
Actually that is another untruth. You have not previously committed to a finite monthly purchase limit on in-game coin per account, and certainly not one that is less than the average subscription rate. I have previously asked for such a commitment and not gotten one.
Are you now saying that RV is going to limit in-game coin purchases to less than $15 US, the average subscription rate, per month per account? If you are willing to set that in stone, I will have no further disputes with RedBedlam about the revenue system, and will only continue criticizing the preorder in-game advantages.
Also let's be honest for a moment if you are capable of it. Logically, if you can adjust the game mechanics to make it easier to earn in-game coin, then you can conversely adjust them to make it harder in order to influence the purchase of in-game coin, which is something you will have to do, if you rely solely on the VERM, and those sales are lacking.
What preorder in-game advantages are you referring to? And why do you feel the need to criticize the game at all?
If you arent interested in the game and dislike the revenue system, why not just bugger off?
The preorder in-game advantage of being able to have a 2 week headstart over retail customers.
I didn't realize this site and these forums were only about saying positive things about games, I seem to have missed that rule. Perhaps you should bugger off if you can't take the criticism?
Hmm, I dont see how opening up the game a few weeks early for pre orders is a bad thing. Whats wrong with rewarding the people who help you make the game?
Regardless, its not that I mind criticsm in any form or fashion, its just that I was surprised that you would bother following a game you clearly dont like or approve of. Just seems like a waste of time is all.....
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
"Rome wasn't coded in a day"
- Kanoth
I just read through the first few pages of this post and everybody has missed this point: you CANNOT say full looting is bad simply because it would be bad for ANOTHER game. If you design the game around full looting and make items cheap and easily replaceable, full looting then becomes a GOOD idea.