Death penalty should perma-kill the character and every member of their guild... all for one and one for all. Then SOE should send goons to my house to rough me up and steal my wallet. That would teach me for playing their game and having the audacity to die.
There is a fine line between meaningful penalty and sould crushing and game ending ridiculousness. What constitutes a decent death penalty if there is not xp to lose? Money loss? Skill loss?
Corpse runs? Is that what people want back? Don't get me wrong I have some fine tales of brutal corpse runs, but I wouldn't exaclty call that fun game play on a regular basis.
Maybe make it so that you are only able to be resurrected by healer PCs ... I guess you better make some pals.
I just want EQ1 death penalties most of the way... maybe a city corpse summoner npc but you have to paid with a xp lost to get it back that way ofc or complete a quest for the npc before you can continue... or something
i always thought corpse loss, and exp loss was retarded, and not very realistic. was more of a pain in the butt than a challenge. and item durability hit, too easy. perma death too drastic.
what about something really meaninful ? something that actually made sense.
for instance if you die. your spirit would go to the planes. while your corpse remained in norrath. in order to get your life back . you would need to do a series of quests, tasks for different gods, and you would need to do some traveling through out the planes in a ghost form. this quests difficulties could scale up, depending on the amount of reputation points you had with such gods. for instance a dark elf would have an easier time convincing innoruk the god of hate than a high elf. you could end up spending several days, working for the gods, trying to get their help, in order to be sent back to life.
I always liked EQ2's original death penalty, before they removed it and made it easy.
When you died, you dropped a soul shard, and lost a load of XP. If you recovered your shard you got most (but not all) of the XP back. If you died multiple times you lost multiple shards and masses of XP.
I remember me and a mate dying in an area, and spending an hour trying to work out strategies to get our shards back, all the time losing more and more. Finally we gave up and got a high level guy to come and clear the area, he arrived full of arrogance at how low and dumb we were. 10 minutes later all three of us were sat trying to work out how to get his shards back as well.
That was fun game play.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
i always thought corpse loss, and exp loss was retarded, and not very realistic. was more of a pain in the butt than a challenge. and item durability hit, too easy. perma death too drastic.
what about something really meaninful ? something that actually made sense.
for instance if you die. your spirit would go to the planes. while your corpse remained in norrath. in order to get your life back . you would need to do a series of quests, tasks for different gods, and you would need to do some traveling through out the planes in a ghost form. this quests difficulties could scale up, depending on the amount of reputation points you had with such gods. for instance a dark elf would have an easier time convincing innoruk the god of hate than a high elf. you could end up spending several days, working for the gods, trying to get their help, in order to be sent back to life.
I like corpse run becuase it could be a way to create a more united community, sometimes in the EQ corpse run you had the necessity to being helped by other players in order to take back your corpse so people was motivated to help each other.
Howether i dont think that return back to live is realistic in any way you can intend it, and be forced to do many quests just to get back your corpse for me is a pain in the butt more than a simple corpserun. Futhermore if i m doing a raid or an istance with many people being forced to go in the planes in a ghost form and make quests there when i die for me is only a waste of time.
"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it" -Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.
I hope it will be tough enough to make death meaning something, not unlike in most of current mmo's. Want be scared of dying again, which forces me to play a lot more carefuly than i used to in last few years.
i always thought corpse loss, and exp loss was retarded, and not very realistic. was more of a pain in the butt than a challenge. and item durability hit, too easy. perma death too drastic.
what about something really meaninful ? something that actually made sense.
for instance if you die. your spirit would go to the planes. while your corpse remained in norrath. in order to get your life back . you would need to do a series of quests, tasks for different gods, and you would need to do some traveling through out the planes in a ghost form. this quests difficulties could scale up, depending on the amount of reputation points you had with such gods. for instance a dark elf would have an easier time convincing innoruk the god of hate than a high elf. you could end up spending several days, working for the gods, trying to get their help, in order to be sent back to life.
And then the group or raid had to sit and wait for this? I hope not
i always thought corpse loss, and exp loss was retarded, and not very realistic. was more of a pain in the butt than a challenge. and item durability hit, too easy. perma death too drastic.
what about something really meaninful ? something that actually made sense.
for instance if you die. your spirit would go to the planes. while your corpse remained in norrath. in order to get your life back . you would need to do a series of quests, tasks for different gods, and you would need to do some traveling through out the planes in a ghost form. this quests difficulties could scale up, depending on the amount of reputation points you had with such gods. for instance a dark elf would have an easier time convincing innoruk the god of hate than a high elf. you could end up spending several days, working for the gods, trying to get their help, in order to be sent back to life.
And then the group or raid had to sit and wait for this? I hope not
I posted a similar idea earlier and said that players in-game could still resurrect you. Although, part of me wish that this was limited. Raid got wiped, well though luck you'll have to go, in group, through the planes to be all brought back alive...
Dev put death penalty in MMOs to punish players with wasted time (or money if you go time is money). Really sometimes I think these were create only to force people to sub longer, hehehe.
i always thought corpse loss, and exp loss was retarded, and not very realistic. was more of a pain in the butt than a challenge. and item durability hit, too easy. perma death too drastic.
what about something really meaninful ? something that actually made sense.
for instance if you die. your spirit would go to the planes. while your corpse remained in norrath. in order to get your life back . you would need to do a series of quests, tasks for different gods, and you would need to do some traveling through out the planes in a ghost form. this quests difficulties could scale up, depending on the amount of reputation points you had with such gods. for instance a dark elf would have an easier time convincing innoruk the god of hate than a high elf. you could end up spending several days, working for the gods, trying to get their help, in order to be sent back to life.
And then the group or raid had to sit and wait for this? I hope not
that's what healers are for. they can rez you if you happen to be in a raid or dungeon group. at least was a total wipe, so then you had a real good reason to avoid that lol.
if you died and noone was around to rez you however (just like it was in eq1) then you would need to bargain with your gods, in order to be sent back. karma , reputation could make this, easy, hard, or simply a pain. i would rather have something like this because i haven't seen it in any of the mmo i've played, and would also make more sense in a fantasy game, than just a cheap easy, corpse run, or exp loss already done.
talking about exp loss. lineage 2 comes to mind. leveling was so slow, that could take rl years to get to max. a death was something painful there.
what's more fearful for a pker than having to quest for several days straight? lol now that would be the perfect penalty
for instance if you die. your spirit would go to the planes. while your corpse remained in norrath. in order to get your life back . you would need to do a series of quests, tasks for different gods, and you would need to do some traveling through out the planes in a ghost form. this quests difficulties could scale up, depending on the amount of reputation points you had with such gods. for instance a dark elf would have an easier time convincing innoruk the god of hate than a high elf. you could end up spending several days, working for the gods, trying to get their help, in order to be sent back to life.
I like this idea a lot - it would work well for solo deaths and you could tweak it for an entire group on a wipe - however, something would have to be included for a scenario where everyone lives in a dungeon except your rezzer or rezzers - you wouldn't want the whole group to wait around until your healer got out of the planes.
i always thought corpse loss, and exp loss was retarded, and not very realistic. was more of a pain in the butt than a challenge. and item durability hit, too easy. perma death too drastic.
what about something really meaninful ? something that actually made sense.
for instance if you die. your spirit would go to the planes. while your corpse remained in norrath. in order to get your life back . you would need to do a series of quests, tasks for different gods, and you would need to do some traveling through out the planes in a ghost form. this quests difficulties could scale up, depending on the amount of reputation points you had with such gods. for instance a dark elf would have an easier time convincing innoruk the god of hate than a high elf. you could end up spending several days, working for the gods, trying to get their help, in order to be sent back to life.
And then the group or raid had to sit and wait for this? I hope not
I posted a similar idea earlier and said that players in-game could still resurrect you. Although, part of me wish that this was limited. Raid got wiped, well though luck you'll have to go, in group, through the planes to be all brought back alive...
Dev put death penalty in MMOs to punish players with wasted time (or money if you go time is money). Really sometimes I think these were create only to force people to sub longer, hehehe.
that sounds like fun! i really like that, having to go with your entire raid, through out the planes, fighting hordes of mobs, working for all different gods together in order to be released back together. that idea has alot of potential.
Originally posted by aspekx when i die i want one other randomly determined player in the world to drop dead as well. right where they stand. no matter what they are doing or where they are.
This makes me think of EQ2 at launch... You could be over in the village and someone in your group opens a trapped chest and *ka boom* you'd die too... which wasn't so bad but the shared xp debt, which worked out more as multiplied xp debt wasn't such a great idea.
Then again I have to admit watching people try to macro craft back then was great... bodies all over the crafting area.
I see no need in harsh deathpenalty but since some people seem to want it to be very harsh then maybe there should be a option the player him/her can choose what level of penalty they get when killed in the game.
Originally posted by Vidir I see no need in harsh deathpenalty but since some people seem to want it to be very harsh then maybe there should be a option the player him/her can choose what level of penalty they get when killed in the game.
agree, or the simply answer is a hardcore server with all the extra time sinks they want .reduce xp per kill, xp pentaly for death,drop gear on death, reduce stats on gear, etc,etc.
that way they get too enjoy the old EQ an who ever got world first kills on their could truly say their hardcore while not effecting the new comers who enjoy the care bear changes
Originally posted by Vidir I see no need in harsh deathpenalty but since some people seem to want it to be very harsh then maybe there should be a option the player him/her can choose what level of penalty they get when killed in the game.
The problem is that without any kind of harsh death penalty people will play without paying attenction in what they are doing and this is could be a real problem for the entire group, as i tested playing GW2.
"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it" -Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.
I really beleive in risk versus reward, thats why i think in EQnext there should be a huge PvE world, with the oldfashioned EQ deathpennalty.. no hands barred, a dangerous open world, where save traveling comes at a price, and friends are allways welcome.. The best loot and Xp however would be gained in the open PvP world.
And then there is A large part of the world dedicated to PvP, where factions openly fight eachother, combined with PvE mobs. In this part of the world the deathpennaltie is much less then in the PvE world... no XP pennaltie if you die, and you only loose 1 or 2 items when you die and a percentage of your coins, how ever in this part of the world, the more fights you survive the stronger you get, but uppon dieing, you loose all of this bonus.
And then there would be instanced parts, these parts of the world are meant for story telling, and are instanced, because the challenge is different here there is no true death pennalty however at death the whole zone resets and people need to start all over again, these instanced parts, throw challenges of a different kind.. and different levels, some are very much story based and doable for everyone that has gear enough, while others more group based instances like dungeons would be madening hard to do...
And then there is Arenabased (instanced) PvP.. with spectatres... no deathpennalty, but you need to pay a price to enter, and if you loose... you loose your money, but get a free resurection.
Anyway, its obvious that i am a self aclaimed Sandpark fan... i love challenges, they need to be there, but i also love differentation, and sometimes i just want to play without danger...
thats why my world would have 4 seperated deathpennalties..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by Vidir I see no need in harsh deathpenalty but since some people seem to want it to be very harsh then maybe there should be a option the player him/her can choose what level of penalty they get when killed in the game.
The problem is that without any kind of harsh death penalty people will play without paying attenction in what they are doing and this is could be a real problem for the entire group, as i tested playing GW2.
Some players are like that, death penalty being harsher isn't going to make them play better, these people lack the perception to follow what is happening on the screen beside their character periphery.
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard I would like a death penalty that will make you want NOT to die, without it being a totally frustrating and time wasting experience. And you can be pretty sure that's what EQN will have. Those who hope for full loot with XP loss and corpse runes or whatever are living in the dark ages, not aware of today's realities.
Yeah, there's absolutely no chance we'll ever see anything like EQ1's death penalties(thankfully). The only time we are going to see something like that is in a fully PvP focused game with item loot and whatnot.
I think people aren't grasping that it wasn't the horrible things that made people like EQ. I don't think anyone playing EQ at the time would have wanted a new game to have those naked corpse runs and crap. Some of the old features were just stupid and frustrating, badly designed mechanics. These things didn't help EQ at all, and it would only hurt their chance of success in today's business world.
I mean who seriously wants to have to wait 40 minutes on a boat ride, then run across 4 zones naked, having lost your level so you can't even mem all your spells, to meet up with your group at the dungeon, to try and get your bodies back from a fully respawned dungeon you have to clear without any weapons/gear?
I know nostalgia is great and all, but some people are clearly focused on the wrong things when they look back. Horrible mechanics aren't what made the old games great, and were removed for a reason. It's the rose-tinted glasses speech again.
I loved the heck out of EQ, but it for sure wasn't because of the mechanics that made me want to smash windows with my computer. Yes, death should be something you want to avoid(so it needs penalties), but it shouldn't be so harsh that you don't want to play the game full-steam.
TLDR: Those old death mechanics didn't teach people to avoid death. They taught people to avoid challenging and exciting play.
Comments
Death penalty should perma-kill the character and every member of their guild... all for one and one for all. Then SOE should send goons to my house to rough me up and steal my wallet. That would teach me for playing their game and having the audacity to die.
There is a fine line between meaningful penalty and sould crushing and game ending ridiculousness. What constitutes a decent death penalty if there is not xp to lose? Money loss? Skill loss?
Corpse runs? Is that what people want back? Don't get me wrong I have some fine tales of brutal corpse runs, but I wouldn't exaclty call that fun game play on a regular basis.
Maybe make it so that you are only able to be resurrected by healer PCs ... I guess you better make some pals.
Help support an artist and gamer who has lost his tools to create and play: http://www.gofundme.com/u63nzcgk
My idea is that if you die(and remember it's all your fault) that you get locked out for 2 hours from rezzing.
Would give you time to contemplate what you did wrong and learn for next time
Some kid will allways QQ when dying...
I just want EQ1 death penalties most of the way... maybe a city corpse summoner npc but you have to paid with a xp lost to get it back that way ofc or complete a quest for the npc before you can continue... or something
"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.
i always thought corpse loss, and exp loss was retarded, and not very realistic. was more of a pain in the butt than a challenge. and item durability hit, too easy. perma death too drastic.
what about something really meaninful ? something that actually made sense.
for instance if you die. your spirit would go to the planes. while your corpse remained in norrath. in order to get your life back . you would need to do a series of quests, tasks for different gods, and you would need to do some traveling through out the planes in a ghost form. this quests difficulties could scale up, depending on the amount of reputation points you had with such gods. for instance a dark elf would have an easier time convincing innoruk the god of hate than a high elf. you could end up spending several days, working for the gods, trying to get their help, in order to be sent back to life.
I always liked EQ2's original death penalty, before they removed it and made it easy.
When you died, you dropped a soul shard, and lost a load of XP. If you recovered your shard you got most (but not all) of the XP back. If you died multiple times you lost multiple shards and masses of XP.
I remember me and a mate dying in an area, and spending an hour trying to work out strategies to get our shards back, all the time losing more and more. Finally we gave up and got a high level guy to come and clear the area, he arrived full of arrogance at how low and dumb we were. 10 minutes later all three of us were sat trying to work out how to get his shards back as well.
That was fun game play.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
I like corpse run becuase it could be a way to create a more united community, sometimes in the EQ corpse run you had the necessity to being helped by other players in order to take back your corpse so people was motivated to help each other.
Howether i dont think that return back to live is realistic in any way you can intend it, and be forced to do many quests just to get back your corpse for me is a pain in the butt more than a simple corpserun. Futhermore if i m doing a raid or an istance with many people being forced to go in the planes in a ghost form and make quests there when i die for me is only a waste of time.
"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.
And then the group or raid had to sit and wait for this?
I hope not 
I posted a similar idea earlier and said that players in-game could still resurrect you. Although, part of me wish that this was limited. Raid got wiped, well though luck you'll have to go, in group, through the planes to be all brought back alive...
Dev put death penalty in MMOs to punish players with wasted time (or money if you go time is money). Really sometimes I think these were create only to force people to sub longer, hehehe.
that's what healers are for. they can rez you if you happen to be in a raid or dungeon group. at least was a total wipe, so then you had a real good reason to avoid that lol.
if you died and noone was around to rez you however (just like it was in eq1) then you would need to bargain with your gods, in order to be sent back. karma , reputation could make this, easy, hard, or simply a pain. i would rather have something like this because i haven't seen it in any of the mmo i've played, and would also make more sense in a fantasy game, than just a cheap easy, corpse run, or exp loss already done.
talking about exp loss. lineage 2 comes to mind. leveling was so slow, that could take rl years to get to max. a death was something painful there.
what's more fearful for a pker than having to quest for several days straight? lol now that would be the perfect penalty
I like this idea a lot - it would work well for solo deaths and you could tweak it for an entire group on a wipe - however, something would have to be included for a scenario where everyone lives in a dungeon except your rezzer or rezzers - you wouldn't want the whole group to wait around until your healer got out of the planes.
But with some fine tuning - this is a nice idea.
that sounds like fun! i really like that, having to go with your entire raid, through out the planes, fighting hordes of mobs, working for all different gods together in order to be released back together. that idea has alot of potential.
This makes me think of EQ2 at launch... You could be over in the village and someone in your group opens a trapped chest and *ka boom* you'd die too... which wasn't so bad but the shared xp debt, which worked out more as multiplied xp debt wasn't such a great idea.
Then again I have to admit watching people try to macro craft back then was great... bodies all over the crafting area.
agree, or the simply answer is a hardcore server with all the extra time sinks they want .reduce xp per kill, xp pentaly for death,drop gear on death, reduce stats on gear, etc,etc.
that way they get too enjoy the old EQ an who ever got world first kills on their could truly say their hardcore while not effecting the new comers who enjoy the care bear changes
The problem is that without any kind of harsh death penalty people will play without paying attenction in what they are doing and this is could be a real problem for the entire group, as i tested playing GW2.
"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.
I really beleive in risk versus reward, thats why i think in EQnext there should be a huge PvE world, with the oldfashioned EQ deathpennalty.. no hands barred, a dangerous open world, where save traveling comes at a price, and friends are allways welcome.. The best loot and Xp however would be gained in the open PvP world.
And then there is A large part of the world dedicated to PvP, where factions openly fight eachother, combined with PvE mobs. In this part of the world the deathpennaltie is much less then in the PvE world... no XP pennaltie if you die, and you only loose 1 or 2 items when you die and a percentage of your coins, how ever in this part of the world, the more fights you survive the stronger you get, but uppon dieing, you loose all of this bonus.
And then there would be instanced parts, these parts of the world are meant for story telling, and are instanced, because the challenge is different here there is no true death pennalty however at death the whole zone resets and people need to start all over again, these instanced parts, throw challenges of a different kind.. and different levels, some are very much story based and doable for everyone that has gear enough, while others more group based instances like dungeons would be madening hard to do...
And then there is Arenabased (instanced) PvP.. with spectatres... no deathpennalty, but you need to pay a price to enter, and if you loose... you loose your money, but get a free resurection.
Anyway, its obvious that i am a self aclaimed Sandpark fan... i love challenges, they need to be there, but i also love differentation, and sometimes i just want to play without danger...
thats why my world would have 4 seperated deathpennalties..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Some players are like that, death penalty being harsher isn't going to make them play better, these people lack the perception to follow what is happening on the screen beside their character periphery.
Yeah, there's absolutely no chance we'll ever see anything like EQ1's death penalties(thankfully). The only time we are going to see something like that is in a fully PvP focused game with item loot and whatnot.
I think people aren't grasping that it wasn't the horrible things that made people like EQ. I don't think anyone playing EQ at the time would have wanted a new game to have those naked corpse runs and crap. Some of the old features were just stupid and frustrating, badly designed mechanics. These things didn't help EQ at all, and it would only hurt their chance of success in today's business world.
I mean who seriously wants to have to wait 40 minutes on a boat ride, then run across 4 zones naked, having lost your level so you can't even mem all your spells, to meet up with your group at the dungeon, to try and get your bodies back from a fully respawned dungeon you have to clear without any weapons/gear?
I know nostalgia is great and all, but some people are clearly focused on the wrong things when they look back. Horrible mechanics aren't what made the old games great, and were removed for a reason. It's the rose-tinted glasses speech again.
I loved the heck out of EQ, but it for sure wasn't because of the mechanics that made me want to smash windows with my computer. Yes, death should be something you want to avoid(so it needs penalties), but it shouldn't be so harsh that you don't want to play the game full-steam.
TLDR: Those old death mechanics didn't teach people to avoid death. They taught people to avoid challenging and exciting play.