Originally posted by killahh If you can do better I suggest you get off your high horse and do so. According to the 20plus polls, made by complaining types like you, over 75 percent of the people like what they see. So therefore you are in the minority, and as such I suggest you deal with it And i Am a long term player of EQ, EQ2.
I have no idea what you're even addressing here (and with such fiery passion *sizzles*), because it certainly isn't anything from my original post . . . I never stated an opinion on any of the things you're ranting about hehe.
No, but I'm getting sick of random haters, posting Crap without actually reading, polls made by people who don't have the brains to bash their way out if a wet paper bag, and bandwagon haters who are flooding the boards with moronic posts. The irony is these same fakes are the ones crying for a change in the genre, but when faced with real change they cry and resist. Yes the graphics are stylized, but they look better than the others, so deal with it allready.
The only person spewing and flooding hatred in this thread thus far is you. Please stop trying to derail the discussion . . . . o.0
If they widened his face just a smidgen, he wouldn't look so odd.
Currently his face is to thin for his body.
The art style I can live with as long as they don't make Dwarfs look ridiculous, currently their concept art on the faces is beautiful.
Yes I agree! Love the way Dwarves look in concept art. I agree that the changes I would like would not have to be that drastic to make a big difference in the immersion for me.
Nice to see that other people are actually looking at what the problem is rather than screaming childish, cartoony, immature.
Looking at that abysmal kerra model again I noticed that the skin barely has any textures. The head is literally a solid yellow then black for the nose and some black dots for whiskers. It reminds me of coloring books where you have a harsh black line drawing and then just fill in the colors with a marker.
Now that I've noticed that I can see what was wrong with the armor. All those basic shapes just pop out at me without even trying to hide it by adding more realistic textures instead of solid colors. That cell shaded look really pops out in this environment. It's like putting borderland characters into skyrim. There is some serious style clashing going on between the world and the characters. The soft cloth looks pretty good on the female mage but the hard surface modelling on the plate armor is obnoxious.
Thank you for the response. That's exactly what I was going for in this thread - a deeper evaluation of what I feel is really going on with character art. I agree that the armor pops too much against the environment. On the same page there.
For me it is not just the "heroic" element, or the "shoulderpads", but they are part of it.
It's the fact that I felt 0 fear looking at this world of EQNext. I didn't feel like it was me against the elements.
It felt like a casual strawl around the block, even with the boss...it felt "lame"
EQ made you FEAR. HOLY $%@^@ Terris Thule. I got nightmares just running through the maze!
And the fact you could lose your lvl or die somewhere or have to restart a 2 hour clear. I felt my heart bounce in my chest just playing this game sometimes.
I want to shiver and fear in my game. The art direction needs to allow for that
But....maybe this isn't the game for that....maybe it is a casual console game, and that's fine, but not sure why it is called EQ then.
Sure, fixing the shoulderpads might work, but ok...that's like a tiny problem out of the whole art style.
To be honest the Void Goliath looked pretty cool in relation to what you have here. The sounds were great as well.
Edit: That orc model that was released a while ago also didn't have a smoothed over look. As far as PC models I'd like to see others like the Dark Elves. They may be more sinister looking.
Can you please change the head/face - into something that is actually fierce looking and not this cutesy Disney look?
It's what is mostly killing it for me, I find it very hard to look at frankly.
I changed the face too now:
You're actually pretty good at this - I like the changes. Not sure they could change the face as much as you have and still maintained integrity with the general character theme, but definitely nice to get a comparison in styles.
EQ2 released SOGA models that are different than the original models and even allows you to separately select which race you see like that individually. Of course it didn't change the body shape, just the face. Even still, maybe someone should start a petition similar to the PSS one.
Most of this really comes down to what a character looks like from a distance. They generally said a couple of different times that they want people to be able to be expressive and look unique from a reasonable distance. That's why the eyes, nose, and mouth are exaggerated for emotes, why the combat actions are so extravagant, and why the armor looks over the top. Alot has to do with your silhouette as well. This is not a real life simulation at all. It's not a game that is intending to give you normal looking, functional look gear. The reality is that normal is not very interesting. You would not read a book that told the tale of some normal middle aged IT manager. It's just not that interesting. But if that IT manager led a secret life of abnormal behavior and was involved in some elaborate adventure that could change the world as we know it.. now that's interesting. So I completely understand that you find certain elements overdone but realistically I think SOE is doing the smart thing to make interesting looking heroic characters. If they are true to their word, you'll be able to change the look of your armor and in doing so maybe they will have something more suitable to your tastes as an option.
For me, the "problem" is people are jumping to conclusions way too early.
I agree the kitty people look is a bit off, but we haven't seen any of the customization yet either. Who knows how much we can change physical race appearance.
To be fair, many seem to have forgotten about Fae, Froglok, Vah Shir/Kerra, Arasai, Ratonga etc and how they looked. To me, none of them are on par with the traditional looks of Dwarf, Dark Elf, Iksar, etc.
Gear sounds like it will be very customizable, down to actual parts to gear. If people prefer smaller shoulderpads or whatever, it will show in game as people won't spend time obtaining it. But we have the choice to do whatever we want.
Not sure they could change the face as much as you have and still maintained integrity with the general character theme, but definitely nice to get a comparison in styles.
yah, simplified it a bit, that's the final change I make to it I think
changed his armor a bit too now, not sure if it's better:
Can you please change the head/face - into something that is actually fierce looking and not this cutesy Disney look?
It's what is mostly killing it for me, I find it very hard to look at frankly.
Im definetly gonna agree with you with the Head/Face, The face from the artwork on the kerran looks alot better to me The hand poportionals are a little better aswell although i think they be better if they were slightly smaller than they are in the pic below. The character models seem to me need a little more tweaking formyself personaly mainly there kerran out of the two we seen although these are alpha models im assuming so im sure they change to a degree. I think they should go back to the tiger appearance over the lion like below, resize some of the poportions in the hands and feet a little and add more textures to the fur/skin. I think they should lean a little more towards the original EQ 1 Vah shir Model like the second picture i feel that would look a little better poportion/appearance wise than the current kerran for EQN. This is my option atleast.
We've seen only a few models so far...the poster who changed the color palette kudos to you... See how much just colar on the model can change the entire feel of it.
I was shocked by the decision they decided to go but overall I still like it ... Actually I think it's GREAAT!!! Hana I had to get that in.
but seriously these are early models. I don't think they are going to change the artistic style. However I think they will be adding alot of options, and continuing to refine and improve. These are still early design.
If people are so set against the style. There are always other alternative games coming out that might better meet your criteria, like Archeage, or FF. or TESO.. this is not the only option available.
changed his armor a bit too now, not sure if it's better:
Can you please change the head/face - into something that is actually fierce looking and not this cutesy Disney look?
It's what is mostly killing it for me, I find it very hard to look at frankly.
Im definetly gonna agree with you with the Head/Face, The face from the artwork on the kerran looks alot better to me The hand poportionals are a little better aswell although i think they be better if they were slightly smaller than they are in the pic below. The character models seem to me need a little more tweaking formyself personaly mainly there kerran out of the two we seen although these are alpha models im assuming so im sure they change to a degree. I think they should go back to the tiger appearance over the lion like below, resize some of the poportions in the hands and feet a little and add more textures to the fur/skin. I think they should lean a little more towards the original EQ 1 Vah shir Model like the second picture i feel that would look a little better poportion/appearance wise than the current kerran for EQN. This is my option atleast.
Hmm wow. I actually like then picture of the Kerran better than the old Vah Shir original when seeing them side by side like that...I was a fan of that picture when it came out too.. Now put the new Firona next to the old one. A d the old one blows the new one away.
I will skip EverQuest Next - mostly because of character art (well - I also hate SOE). I just can't stand those silly cartoon character styles. They look very similar with Star Wars old republic's graphics. Cartoon graphics are suitable for games like Champions Online, but not for "serious" sandbox games.
IMHO: Age of Conan and Star Trek online are good examples how character's should look. And any serious adults MMORPG game under developement should have Star Trek online's character customization or better.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
I will skip EverQuest Next - mostly because of character art (well - I also hate SOE). I just can't stand those silly cartoon character styles. They look very similar with Star Wars old republic's graphics. Cartoon graphics are suitable for games like Champions Online, but not for "serious" sandbox games.
IMHO: Age of Conan and Star Trek online are good examples how character's should look. And any serious adults MMORPG game under developement should have Star Trek online's character customization or better.
What a load of bull... Art appreciation is not defined by age or adulthood. So far every poll taken has shown most people like to style. I'm 39 and think the art style is very well done.
Nothing wrong with his body design. Large cats have large paws, and I think the over the top spaulders look good on the model.
The only problem I see is that mane is too tame and slick. It needs to be more feral. It needs to look more like its own entity and less like a texture blended into the rest of his body.
It's sad that some random poster off the street can tweak their characters in an evening to please 50% more of the population yet its taken their art dept how many years to make Jessica Rabbit and Simba?
When I first watched SOE Live I literally screamed profanities for ten minutes when I saw the graphical design of the game. As an original EverQuest Beta tester and devout lover of the game until Luclin, during which I continued to tolerate it until Planes of Power, I was simply infuriated. Not because the graphics were bad, but because I selfishly wanted a realistic looking immersion filled game. I wanted a world I could escape to and not be as readily aware that I was playing a game. Stylized artwork is a step away from that, but I can understand their logical pattern. Stylized artwork ages much slower, while realistic design requires graphical updates from a team, which reduces the CEO's check (we know that is not happening). Thus, it is here to stay.
Seemingly, part of the reason the artwork has irritated such a large quantity of people (myself included) is due to its stylized cartoon nature, comparable to Disney and other child-friendly designs (the rest primarily complain because it is a deviation from the realistic artwork design of EverQuest - don't argue with me, go look at the paintings of old and new). That being said, I realized that I could alleviate some of the anxiety induced by the stylized artwork by trying to compare it to a less child oriented, but stylized creation - Elizabeth from Bioshock Infinite. I managed to overlook the artwork choice of Bioshock and fall head over heels in love with her as if she were real. If Elizabeth can give me hope for a game with her remarkably real personality and gestures, perhaps she can give one or two others hope for it. P.S., I know they are not the same, and am in no way indicating that the graphical textures of EQN could not use additional resolution to make them fit into the highly detailed world better.
That being said, I still cannot get over the abhorrence that is the Vah Shir / Kerran character. That exceedingly long nosed face, the monotone bright skin choice, the lack of details, that hair, the paws that are (it is not an angle) larger than his face, the armor that is not form fitting as much as an excessive mass, led me to dislike him on the grounds that his stylized artwork does not match up with the world at all. While the human slowly grew more tolerable over time, I still cannot stand looking at the feline's face. From my most humbled point of view, it does not even resemble a stylized variation of the Vah Shir / Kerran that matches up with the human. Dare I say, I could tolerate the disproportionate body if the face were re-done, which would not require extensive effort. The primary reason bodies are not altered is due to the re-modeling of armor that it requires.
I would probably be less bothered were it named the Kittykittypawpaw race or something similar, just like I would have been more keen on them calling this game Smashquest something other than EverQuest Next. In fact, had they called it something else, I would have been significantly more impressed by everything because my anticipatory hopes for EverQuest 3 would not have existed to be dashed away, like so many others. But we must live with what we are given. Frankly, what we are given is not that bad, it just is not the EverQuest for which I had hoped. I truly hope that they offer an option for a re-design on the facial features of the kitty people, I can at least attempt to adjust to the rest. I am a human, humans adapt.
Comments
hopefully more than the current art designer..I'm thinking what we've seen thus far is a result of low wages.
If they widened his face just a smidgen, he wouldn't look so odd.
Currently his face is to thin for his body.
The art style I can live with as long as they don't make Dwarfs look ridiculous, currently their concept art on the faces is beautiful.
The only person spewing and flooding hatred in this thread thus far is you. Please stop trying to derail the discussion . . . . o.0
Yes I agree! Love the way Dwarves look in concept art. I agree that the changes I would like would not have to be that drastic to make a big difference in the immersion for me.
Thank you for the response. That's exactly what I was going for in this thread - a deeper evaluation of what I feel is really going on with character art. I agree that the armor pops too much against the environment. On the same page there.
To be honest the Void Goliath looked pretty cool in relation to what you have here. The sounds were great as well.
Edit: That orc model that was released a while ago also didn't have a smoothed over look. As far as PC models I'd like to see others like the Dark Elves. They may be more sinister looking.
I changed the face too now:
You're actually pretty good at this - I like the changes. Not sure they could change the face as much as you have and still maintained integrity with the general character theme, but definitely nice to get a comparison in styles.
EQ2 released SOGA models that are different than the original models and even allows you to separately select which race you see like that individually. Of course it didn't change the body shape, just the face. Even still, maybe someone should start a petition similar to the PSS one.
You never know...
For me, the "problem" is people are jumping to conclusions way too early.
I agree the kitty people look is a bit off, but we haven't seen any of the customization yet either. Who knows how much we can change physical race appearance.
To be fair, many seem to have forgotten about Fae, Froglok, Vah Shir/Kerra, Arasai, Ratonga etc and how they looked. To me, none of them are on par with the traditional looks of Dwarf, Dark Elf, Iksar, etc.
Gear sounds like it will be very customizable, down to actual parts to gear. If people prefer smaller shoulderpads or whatever, it will show in game as people won't spend time obtaining it. But we have the choice to do whatever we want.
yah, simplified it a bit, that's the final change I make to it I think
Im definetly gonna agree with you with the Head/Face, The face from the artwork on the kerran looks alot better to me The hand poportionals are a little better aswell although i think they be better if they were slightly smaller than they are in the pic below. The character models seem to me need a little more tweaking formyself personaly mainly there kerran out of the two we seen although these are alpha models im assuming so im sure they change to a degree. I think they should go back to the tiger appearance over the lion like below, resize some of the poportions in the hands and feet a little and add more textures to the fur/skin. I think they should lean a little more towards the original EQ 1 Vah shir Model like the second picture i feel that would look a little better poportion/appearance wise than the current kerran for EQN. This is my option atleast.
We've seen only a few models so far...the poster who changed the color palette kudos to you... See how much just colar on the model can change the entire feel of it.
I was shocked by the decision they decided to go but overall I still like it ... Actually I think it's GREAAT!!! Hana I had to get that in.
but seriously these are early models. I don't think they are going to change the artistic style. However I think they will be adding alot of options, and continuing to refine and improve. These are still early design.
If people are so set against the style. There are always other alternative games coming out that might better meet your criteria, like Archeage, or FF. or TESO.. this is not the only option available.
Hmm wow. I actually like then picture of the Kerran better than the old Vah Shir original when seeing them side by side like that...I was a fan of that picture when it came out too.. Now put the new Firona next to the old one. A d the old one blows the new one away.
I will skip EverQuest Next - mostly because of character art (well - I also hate SOE). I just can't stand those silly cartoon character styles. They look very similar with Star Wars old republic's graphics. Cartoon graphics are suitable for games like Champions Online, but not for "serious" sandbox games.
IMHO: Age of Conan and Star Trek online are good examples how character's should look. And any serious adults MMORPG game under developement should have Star Trek online's character customization or better.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
What a load of bull... Art appreciation is not defined by age or adulthood. So far every poll taken has shown most people like to style. I'm 39 and think the art style is very well done.
Ok, I redid both characters now.
SOE please hire this man to do make the characters.
it loooks alot better and sure as hell alot more adult.
Nothing wrong with his body design. Large cats have large paws, and I think the over the top spaulders look good on the model.
The only problem I see is that mane is too tame and slick. It needs to be more feral. It needs to look more like its own entity and less like a texture blended into the rest of his body.
Hmm your Kerran is good but your female is dog ugly...I actually like their female better than yours.
When I first watched SOE Live I literally screamed profanities for ten minutes when I saw the graphical design of the game. As an original EverQuest Beta tester and devout lover of the game until Luclin, during which I continued to tolerate it until Planes of Power, I was simply infuriated. Not because the graphics were bad, but because I selfishly wanted a realistic looking immersion filled game. I wanted a world I could escape to and not be as readily aware that I was playing a game. Stylized artwork is a step away from that, but I can understand their logical pattern. Stylized artwork ages much slower, while realistic design requires graphical updates from a team, which reduces the CEO's check (we know that is not happening). Thus, it is here to stay.
Seemingly, part of the reason the artwork has irritated such a large quantity of people (myself included) is due to its stylized cartoon nature, comparable to Disney and other child-friendly designs (the rest primarily complain because it is a deviation from the realistic artwork design of EverQuest - don't argue with me, go look at the paintings of old and new). That being said, I realized that I could alleviate some of the anxiety induced by the stylized artwork by trying to compare it to a less child oriented, but stylized creation - Elizabeth from Bioshock Infinite. I managed to overlook the artwork choice of Bioshock and fall head over heels in love with her as if she were real. If Elizabeth can give me hope for a game with her remarkably real personality and gestures, perhaps she can give one or two others hope for it. P.S., I know they are not the same, and am in no way indicating that the graphical textures of EQN could not use additional resolution to make them fit into the highly detailed world better.
That being said, I still cannot get over the abhorrence that is the Vah Shir / Kerran character. That exceedingly long nosed face, the monotone bright skin choice, the lack of details, that hair, the paws that are (it is not an angle) larger than his face, the armor that is not form fitting as much as an excessive mass, led me to dislike him on the grounds that his stylized artwork does not match up with the world at all. While the human slowly grew more tolerable over time, I still cannot stand looking at the feline's face. From my most humbled point of view, it does not even resemble a stylized variation of the Vah Shir / Kerran that matches up with the human. Dare I say, I could tolerate the disproportionate body if the face were re-done, which would not require extensive effort. The primary reason bodies are not altered is due to the re-modeling of armor that it requires.
I would probably be less bothered were it named the Kittykittypawpaw race or something similar, just like I would have been more keen on them calling this game Smashquest something other than EverQuest Next. In fact, had they called it something else, I would have been significantly more impressed by everything because my anticipatory hopes for EverQuest 3 would not have existed to be dashed away, like so many others. But we must live with what we are given. Frankly, what we are given is not that bad, it just is not the EverQuest for which I had hoped. I truly hope that they offer an option for a re-design on the facial features of the kitty people, I can at least attempt to adjust to the rest. I am a human, humans adapt.
Always a pleasure.