EQ2 has some okay character models, but once you look at the game as a whole it doesn't hold up.
It get's increasingly more apparent when you actually boot either game up the difference in quality. You may not like WoW's aesthetic, but it is crisp and clean.
Did you take that screenshot?
That EQ2 screenshot is on the lowest setting available.
Some will like the art style some wont simple as that....
If you can't get past that aspect of the game then you might as well move on. I really could care either way as the graphics are the least of my worries atm considering it looks like we may be playing another PONG (GW2)
Agree ...but same for trinity vs better AI...move on its not for you if you dont like it. Accept game mechanics or choose an other game (I dont like it but accept it).
The arguement of Trinity vs Better AI is nonsense as well. They're just abandoning trying to make a system that doesn't require GW2's combat system.
Think about SWG, they didn't have trinity. Essentially you had tons of diversity is classes available, armor, weapons, and doctors.
You COULD specialize as a primary healer with doctor/combat medic. Then you could specialize as a tank, technically speaking, with TKM/Fencer/Pistoleer.
SWG didn't have a hate mechanic that the trinity uses, but the AI most certainly wasn't super advanced.
EQ2 has some okay character models, but once you look at the game as a whole it doesn't hold up.
It get's increasingly more apparent when you actually boot either game up the difference in quality. You may not like WoW's aesthetic, but it is crisp and clean.
Did you take that screenshot?
That EQ2 screenshot is on the lowest setting available.
He must have, I played eq2 for years and it had way more detailed Graphics than wow, but you needed loads of processor Power and ram to play at high res.
They actual statement is that games aiming for "hyper realistic" graphics will look outdated in one/two years due to new technology (shaders, lighting, etc). Anime style graphics (not cartoony as you state) are a very specific style and won't change all that much, even over many years. Yes you can see difference in little details and the density of items in the game, but it hardly ever changes the overall feel.
If you make a game in the same style as say Bleach or Pokémon tv series, you know what to expect and what it'll look like due to the specific art style. but if you take a game like Crysis, it looks great at the time of its release, but it doens't look as mind blowing years later, due to outdated technology.
WoW to me doesn't fit in this catergory, as it is way too cartoony (which was done on purpose so it could run on low-end pcs and thus make more money) and never looked very appealing to me in the first place.
STOOPID When someone does something so utterly moronic that it kills your brain cells at the very thought of it.
WoW to me doesn't fit in this catergory, as it is way too cartoony (which was done on purpose so it could run on low-end pcs and thus make more money) and never looked very appealing to me in the first place.
It was made that way because WoW is the MMO version of the Warcraft RTS game. Plus to run on lower end machines, which was a brilliant decision. I suppose some people get angry when others make good choices and their games of choice do not.
EQ2 has some okay character models, but once you look at the game as a whole it doesn't hold up.
**snipped the pics**
It get's increasingly more apparent when you actually boot either game up the difference in quality. You may not like WoW's aesthetic, but it is crisp and clean.
Pretty much this ^
I enjoyed EQ2 one hell of a lot when it first game out. However the graphics definitely do not stand the test of time. While WoW's graphics will always feel 'old', they don't generally feel 'bad', in the sense that WoW's graphics are stylized in a way that embraces what it is, and uses that to keep a coherent vision / look. Games that push too hard on the realism fall into the problem that tech gets better every year, and in a few years it stops looking realistic at all. And instead, it just looks like a game trying (and failing) to look real.
This is a main part of why stylized graphics are generally more popular. Your brain is able to fill in a lot of the gaps by making it's own assumptions of what you're looking at. When you render something more realistically, you attempt to manually explain to another person's brain what they're looking at. If you make any mistakes or errors, there is very little a person can do to ignore it.
- A fun experiment for those (especially those who consider themselves poor drawers), draw a basic smiley face. Think about the reaction you get to seeing that (most people smile). Then start adding details to it. Facial features, shading, hair. Does it make the face look better? Or more ugly? I know it seems kinda stupid, but it illustrated just how powerful this phenomina actually is.
I personally find them unattractive and don't feel they've aged well at all.
Right, but we're talking about over time. They've made a LOT of improvements since then, and look YEARS better than WoW does even now.
The ENTIRE mmo world disagrees with you. Eq2 looked amazing when it was released and now judged against other realistic games doesn't even come close to those games minimum graphic setting appearances. WoW Looked exactly like it was supposed to based on the RTS and doesn't feel old to anyone playing it today. Eq2 and wow BOTH look better than they did at release right now but where eq2 doesn't hold up next to similar art styles, WoW is still what any stylized game shoots for.
The TRUTH about the internet is often times hilarious and sad.
People simple read something somewhere and then it gets handed down and tons more begin to use it and eventually many consider it fact.
I see that statement used by dev teams making excuses or trying to support THEIR idea,then everyone is like "Oh ya ,that's the reason".I heard the same crap about Wow went low poly to allow more gamer's to be able to play with low systems.Oh yes because sliders have only been used in games since about 1990.Also when you totally ignore going console,you are NOT trying to cater to more people,you are catering to LESS and FFXI already proved you could go console before Wow was released.
Someone uses the words Troll,Hater,fanbois then everyone is doing it,it's like not many can think for themselves,they just like to chime in and copy the fashion trends.
Remember when AnET kept on about how great their art team is?I severely LOL@ the art work they used in game,it looked like amateur hour.However just because their PR team used that excuse,everyone bought into it and started on with how great the art looks.I am fair,if i see good looking art,i will say so,but ANETS art IN GAME looked awful.It was simply an excuse to hide the truth about not using animated 3d videos and CS's,they were cutting corners on cost.
Bottom line is people need to quit copying or relaying what they see/hear and think for themselves.We see this fact watching the EQN panel,they kept telling us how great everyone of their ideas were.The crowd were sitting on their hands,so they prodded a response out them ...RIGHT? then the crowd begins to cheer/clap.
Don't believe everything you hear,used car salesmen will love you otherwise.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I personally find them unattractive and don't feel they've aged well at all.
Right, but we're talking about over time. They've made a LOT of improvements since then, and look YEARS better than WoW does even now.
The ENTIRE mmo world disagrees with you. Eq2 looked amazing when it was released and now judged against other realistic games doesn't even come close to those games minimum graphic setting appearances. WoW Looked exactly like it was supposed to based on the RTS and doesn't feel old to anyone playing it today. Eq2 and wow BOTH look better than they did at release right now but where eq2 doesn't hold up next to similar art styles, WoW is still what any stylized game shoots for.
No, the entire mmo world does not disagree with me. Those screenshots are on lowest possible setting, and the current graphics for EQ2 are actually very nice. True some odd plastic still here and then, but that's inescapable with their lack of textures and increased use of mipmapping and model intensity. Too much emphasis on 3D models rather than textures to carry you through.
I'll take screenshots when i get home that prove you wrong 200%
EQ2's graphics were very advanced for the time, but the aesthetic has always looked horrible to me. Just so plasticky & unnatural, and the fact that they move like robots doesn't help either. Not to mention the horribly unoptimized engine which is capable of bringing even modern high-end PCs to their knees.
WoW's graphics aren't very good, but the aesthetics are fantastic. The world still feels as vibrant & alive as ever, and the only disconnect I've experienced is when the newer character models (goblins, pandaren, worgen) are standing next to the older ones. Even then, it's not that bad.
WoW is like a Don Bluth film, holds up very well and is always a pleasure to watch. EQ2 is like an early 90's CGI film, sure it looked impressive at the time, but now it's just cringe-worthy.
Oh, and to say that Diablo 3 & WoW have the same art style is laughable at best, and pretty much destroys the credibility of anyone who puts forth such a ridiculous claim. The similarities are superficial at best.
It's a sad day indeed when a family is too afraid of reprisals to publicly thank somebody for saving their lives.
The TRUTH about the internet is often times hilarious and sad.
People simple read something somewhere and then it gets handed down and tons more begin to use it and eventually many consider it fact.
I see that statement used by dev teams making excuses or trying to support THEIR idea,then everyone is like "Oh ya ,that's the reason".I heard the same crap about Wow went low poly to allow more gamer's to be able to play with low systems.Oh yes because sliders have only been used in games since about 1990.Also when you totally ignore going console,you are NOT trying to cater to more people,you are catering to LESS and FFXI already proved you could go console before Wow was released.
Someone uses the words Troll,Hater,fanbois then everyone is doing it,it's like not many can think for themselves,they just like to chime in and copy the fashion trends.
Remember when AnET kept on about how great their art team is?I severely LOL@ the art work they used in game,it looked like amateur hour.However just because their PR team used that excuse,everyone bought into it and started on with how great the art looks.I am fair,if i see good looking art,i will say so,but ANETS art IN GAME looked awful.It was simply an excuse to hide the truth about not using animated 3d videos and CS's,they were cutting corners on cost.
Bottom line is people need to quit copying or relaying what they see/hear and think for themselves.We see this fact watching the EQN panel,they kept telling us how great everyone of their ideas were.The crowd were sitting on their hands,so they prodded a response out them ...RIGHT? then the crowd begins to cheer/clap.
Don't believe everything you hear,used car salesmen will love you otherwise.
Wizardry... you may want to double check your facts before you go on criticising others about theres...
For one, there's a big difference between client-side sliders and server side processing. While the servers don't typically care how good your textures look, things like poly resolution do matter to an extent, when things like colision / platforming is being calculated. That's not even getting into the topic of system / company resources, which severely affect what a game & development team can & can't do. Just because something sounds good, doesn't mean it's the reality.
In WoW's case, most of the higher-res stuff would've been useless to a large chunk of their player base. They knew their audience was mostly not using top-end computers, and they focused their efforts accordingly. Years down the road, they started adding higher-res addons for the game, for those that did want better graphics & could handle them. It makes sense.
As for Anet's art team.
1) There's nothing wrong w/ being proud of your staff. A lot of game studios treat their artists more like peons than real people. I sure as hell would rather work in a place like Anet.
2) You may want to look at some of the credentials some of the people on Anet's team actually have. For one, the art director also worked on games you may have heard of, like Half Life 2. While I don't like every single piece of armor or weapon skins in the game, there is a reason for that.
They designed the game for variety, to have things that appeal to different kinds of people, without being too alien. So far they've done a good job with that. While I still find certain models to be hideos, there are still people who run around using them. The game isn't designed just for you. It's design for a million different people.
Something to remember is that no designer is making a game from your perspective. It's easy to judge games from your little corner of the room, but I'm willing to bet these developers don't actually know you. Furthermore, you don't know them, or the decisions they have to make on a daily basis. It's easy to take a surface glance at something and judge it. But things get a lot less clear when you're dealing with the behind the scenes data, decisions, and complications that led to the final result. Things like producers pulling budget from your project. Deadlines being moved up. Unforeseen coding limitations or bugs. Maybe their chief artist was out sick when that update when through, etc. You simply don't know.
EQ2's graphics were very advanced for the time, but the aesthetic has always looked horrible to me. Just so plasticky & unnatural, and the fact that they move like robots doesn't help either. Not to mention the horribly unoptimized engine which is capable of bringing even modern high-end PCs to their knees.
WoW's graphics aren't very good, but the aesthetics are fantastic. The world still feels as vibrant & alive as ever, and the only disconnect I've experienced is when the newer character models (goblins, pandaren, worgen) are standing next to the older ones. Even then, it's not that bad.
WoW is like a Don Bluth film, holds up very well and is always a pleasure to watch. EQ2 is like an early 90's CGI film, sure it looked impressive at the time, but now it's just cringe-worthy.
Oh, and to say that Diablo 3 & WoW have the same art style is laughable at best, and pretty much destroys the credibility of anyone who puts forth such a ridiculous claim. The similarities are superficial at best.
Spot on. This is a Opinion VS Opinion thread. Here Ill log onto EQ2 right now and take a SS on max settings and compare it to a wow screenshot.
EQ2's graphics were very advanced for the time, but the aesthetic has always looked horrible to me. Just so plasticky & unnatural, and the fact that they move like robots doesn't help either. Not to mention the horribly unoptimized engine which is capable of bringing even modern high-end PCs to their knees.
WoW's graphics aren't very good, but the aesthetics are fantastic. The world still feels as vibrant & alive as ever, and the only disconnect I've experienced is when the newer character models (goblins, pandaren, worgen) are standing next to the older ones. Even then, it's not that bad.
WoW is like a Don Bluth film, holds up very well and is always a pleasure to watch. EQ2 is like an early 90's CGI film, sure it looked impressive at the time, but now it's just cringe-worthy.
Oh, and to say that Diablo 3 & WoW have the same art style is laughable at best, and pretty much destroys the credibility of anyone who puts forth such a ridiculous claim. The similarities are superficial at best.
Spot on. This is a Opinion VS Opinion thread. Here Ill log onto EQ2 right now and take a SS on max settings and compare it to a wow screenshot.
Originally posted by newbinator preference in art style is entirely subjective.
agree
I agree too. I tried EQ2 F2P and thought the graphics where horrible. Yet I still liked the WoW graphics. i.e. preference.
I accept WoW's graphics for what they are: Staying true to the Warcraft RTS games.
Yes there is no mathematical equation to calculate which art style is better.
But subjective judgments do matter especially if a group of people do agrees upon them.
This "its all subjective"-argument is flawed. If you think it through to the end you couldn't even complain if the entire game consisted of untextured boxes. And I think if you go shopping tor a new shirt you don't pick the cheapest no matter what it looks like, because the rest is subjective anyway, or do you?
Comments
They are links to screen shots, not titles of games.
Did you take that screenshot?
That EQ2 screenshot is on the lowest setting available.
The arguement of Trinity vs Better AI is nonsense as well. They're just abandoning trying to make a system that doesn't require GW2's combat system.
Think about SWG, they didn't have trinity. Essentially you had tons of diversity is classes available, armor, weapons, and doctors.
You COULD specialize as a primary healer with doctor/combat medic. Then you could specialize as a tank, technically speaking, with TKM/Fencer/Pistoleer.
SWG didn't have a hate mechanic that the trinity uses, but the AI most certainly wasn't super advanced.
If SWG can do it, why can't EQ:N?
He must have, I played eq2 for years and it had way more detailed Graphics than wow, but you needed loads of processor Power and ram to play at high res.
Unlike the OP I wont post screen shots from vanillia and BC expansions;
You might not like the style of the art but it all works together to create a believable world and took just as much effort to create.
They actual statement is that games aiming for "hyper realistic" graphics will look outdated in one/two years due to new technology (shaders, lighting, etc). Anime style graphics (not cartoony as you state) are a very specific style and won't change all that much, even over many years. Yes you can see difference in little details and the density of items in the game, but it hardly ever changes the overall feel.
If you make a game in the same style as say Bleach or Pokémon tv series, you know what to expect and what it'll look like due to the specific art style. but if you take a game like Crysis, it looks great at the time of its release, but it doens't look as mind blowing years later, due to outdated technology.
WoW to me doesn't fit in this catergory, as it is way too cartoony (which was done on purpose so it could run on low-end pcs and thus make more money) and never looked very appealing to me in the first place.
STOOPID
When someone does something so utterly moronic that it kills your brain cells at the very thought of it.
To be fair, many of your eq2 samples are simply not the models it released with in 2004.
These are some original models and some comparisons:
http://img70.exs.cx/img70/8986/kirsten1.jpg
http://www.eq2flames.com/imagehosting/189794935b1d7db5dc.jpg
http://www.cesspit.net/drupal/storeroom/eq2/port.jpg
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/4681/puttermans.jpg
I personally find them unattractive and don't feel they've aged well at all.
It was made that way because WoW is the MMO version of the Warcraft RTS game. Plus to run on lower end machines, which was a brilliant decision. I suppose some people get angry when others make good choices and their games of choice do not.
Right, but we're talking about over time. They've made a LOT of improvements since then, and look YEARS better than WoW does even now.
Pretty much this ^
I enjoyed EQ2 one hell of a lot when it first game out. However the graphics definitely do not stand the test of time. While WoW's graphics will always feel 'old', they don't generally feel 'bad', in the sense that WoW's graphics are stylized in a way that embraces what it is, and uses that to keep a coherent vision / look. Games that push too hard on the realism fall into the problem that tech gets better every year, and in a few years it stops looking realistic at all. And instead, it just looks like a game trying (and failing) to look real.
This is a main part of why stylized graphics are generally more popular. Your brain is able to fill in a lot of the gaps by making it's own assumptions of what you're looking at. When you render something more realistically, you attempt to manually explain to another person's brain what they're looking at. If you make any mistakes or errors, there is very little a person can do to ignore it.
- A fun experiment for those (especially those who consider themselves poor drawers), draw a basic smiley face. Think about the reaction you get to seeing that (most people smile). Then start adding details to it. Facial features, shading, hair. Does it make the face look better? Or more ugly? I know it seems kinda stupid, but it illustrated just how powerful this phenomina actually is.
The ENTIRE mmo world disagrees with you. Eq2 looked amazing when it was released and now judged against other realistic games doesn't even come close to those games minimum graphic setting appearances. WoW Looked exactly like it was supposed to based on the RTS and doesn't feel old to anyone playing it today. Eq2 and wow BOTH look better than they did at release right now but where eq2 doesn't hold up next to similar art styles, WoW is still what any stylized game shoots for.
The TRUTH about the internet is often times hilarious and sad.
People simple read something somewhere and then it gets handed down and tons more begin to use it and eventually many consider it fact.
I see that statement used by dev teams making excuses or trying to support THEIR idea,then everyone is like "Oh ya ,that's the reason".I heard the same crap about Wow went low poly to allow more gamer's to be able to play with low systems.Oh yes because sliders have only been used in games since about 1990.Also when you totally ignore going console,you are NOT trying to cater to more people,you are catering to LESS and FFXI already proved you could go console before Wow was released.
Someone uses the words Troll,Hater,fanbois then everyone is doing it,it's like not many can think for themselves,they just like to chime in and copy the fashion trends.
Remember when AnET kept on about how great their art team is?I severely LOL@ the art work they used in game,it looked like amateur hour.However just because their PR team used that excuse,everyone bought into it and started on with how great the art looks.I am fair,if i see good looking art,i will say so,but ANETS art IN GAME looked awful.It was simply an excuse to hide the truth about not using animated 3d videos and CS's,they were cutting corners on cost.
Bottom line is people need to quit copying or relaying what they see/hear and think for themselves.We see this fact watching the EQN panel,they kept telling us how great everyone of their ideas were.The crowd were sitting on their hands,so they prodded a response out them ...RIGHT? then the crowd begins to cheer/clap.
Don't believe everything you hear,used car salesmen will love you otherwise.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
No, the entire mmo world does not disagree with me. Those screenshots are on lowest possible setting, and the current graphics for EQ2 are actually very nice. True some odd plastic still here and then, but that's inescapable with their lack of textures and increased use of mipmapping and model intensity. Too much emphasis on 3D models rather than textures to carry you through.
I'll take screenshots when i get home that prove you wrong 200%
Smooth animation - WoW has always done better than any one else in large part due to the art style.
misleading screenshots
they do not mean anything
these ones are better
give us something new
we demand innovation;
this is not the same
EQ2's graphics were very advanced for the time, but the aesthetic has always looked horrible to me. Just so plasticky & unnatural, and the fact that they move like robots doesn't help either. Not to mention the horribly unoptimized engine which is capable of bringing even modern high-end PCs to their knees.
WoW's graphics aren't very good, but the aesthetics are fantastic. The world still feels as vibrant & alive as ever, and the only disconnect I've experienced is when the newer character models (goblins, pandaren, worgen) are standing next to the older ones. Even then, it's not that bad.
WoW is like a Don Bluth film, holds up very well and is always a pleasure to watch. EQ2 is like an early 90's CGI film, sure it looked impressive at the time, but now it's just cringe-worthy.
Oh, and to say that Diablo 3 & WoW have the same art style is laughable at best, and pretty much destroys the credibility of anyone who puts forth such a ridiculous claim. The similarities are superficial at best.
It's a sad day indeed when a family is too afraid of reprisals to publicly thank somebody for saving their lives.
Wizardry... you may want to double check your facts before you go on criticising others about theres...
For one, there's a big difference between client-side sliders and server side processing. While the servers don't typically care how good your textures look, things like poly resolution do matter to an extent, when things like colision / platforming is being calculated. That's not even getting into the topic of system / company resources, which severely affect what a game & development team can & can't do. Just because something sounds good, doesn't mean it's the reality.
In WoW's case, most of the higher-res stuff would've been useless to a large chunk of their player base. They knew their audience was mostly not using top-end computers, and they focused their efforts accordingly. Years down the road, they started adding higher-res addons for the game, for those that did want better graphics & could handle them. It makes sense.
As for Anet's art team.
1) There's nothing wrong w/ being proud of your staff. A lot of game studios treat their artists more like peons than real people. I sure as hell would rather work in a place like Anet.
2) You may want to look at some of the credentials some of the people on Anet's team actually have. For one, the art director also worked on games you may have heard of, like Half Life 2. While I don't like every single piece of armor or weapon skins in the game, there is a reason for that.
They designed the game for variety, to have things that appeal to different kinds of people, without being too alien. So far they've done a good job with that. While I still find certain models to be hideos, there are still people who run around using them. The game isn't designed just for you. It's design for a million different people.
Something to remember is that no designer is making a game from your perspective. It's easy to judge games from your little corner of the room, but I'm willing to bet these developers don't actually know you. Furthermore, you don't know them, or the decisions they have to make on a daily basis. It's easy to take a surface glance at something and judge it. But things get a lot less clear when you're dealing with the behind the scenes data, decisions, and complications that led to the final result. Things like producers pulling budget from your project. Deadlines being moved up. Unforeseen coding limitations or bugs. Maybe their chief artist was out sick when that update when through, etc. You simply don't know.
Spot on. This is a Opinion VS Opinion thread. Here Ill log onto EQ2 right now and take a SS on max settings and compare it to a wow screenshot.
WOW SS
EQ 2 SS MAX settings
IMO the wow one looks extremely more detailed. EQ2 looks old and looks like plastic.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
That's not max settings, or you have some things turned off for EQ2. Also, there's no detail in that WoW ss. What exactly are you talking about?
You also are in the Ice starting area for Qeynos. It's literally an ice zone. Then you went to WoW and went into a very green zone.
Seriously, bias much
?
Yes there is no mathematical equation to calculate which art style is better.
But subjective judgments do matter especially if a group of people do agrees upon them.
This "its all subjective"-argument is flawed. If you think it through to the end you couldn't even complain if the entire game consisted of untextured boxes. And I think if you go shopping tor a new shirt you don't pick the cheapest no matter what it looks like, because the rest is subjective anyway, or do you?
Doesn't stop that elf model from looking absolutely disgusting.
gameplay > graphics