I don't think you realize that a P2P game doesn't have to have millions of players to be successful. EvE does great with 500k players. Many people like me are thrilled that there are more subscription games coming out because it means I don't have to be nickel and dimed to death. GW2 is a B2P game, but guess what? They also have RNG/Gacha like chests that they sell in their cash shop that tick a lot of people off. I don't want to deal with those kinds of cash shops so the subscription model making a return is some of the best MMO news I've heard in awhile.
Great. You go play those games.
I play free games for fun. It is not like there will be a lack of F2P games just because a few sub-only games are being made. Plus, sooner or later, they will become f2p anyway.
So we both have games to play. The gaming market works.
You have no way of knowing that and from your previous posts on the subject, I'm going to be blunt: Your attitude is piss poor. You seem to be upset that the subscription model is making a comeback, and you can be upset, but there's no need to be a sarcastic twit about it.
Developers that make their game subscription based usually care more about their games. The customer service is way better usually too. Free to play companies like Nexon literally take years to answer tickets. I literally waited 2 years for them to answer a ticket only for them to close it on me without answering me or helping me with my problem.
You have to be trolling me if you think my entire argument is based on WoW. I only mentioned WoW one time as an example of an mmo that is p2p and has a vaniy cash shop with box sales. Since you just read the first paragraph of my post and disregarded the rest i shall do the same to you and disregard the rest of your entire post.
Going by your responses, your complete lack in ability to counter point things that show you are wrong along with the way others are as well, only to be ignored...you are the troll.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by Precusor With the up coming AAA MMos being P2P must have really hit a nerve on the f2p players.
Who actually thinks FFXIV, Wildstar or TESO are AAA MMOS?!?
lol...and the little about EQN that is out doesn't point to anything better than GW2 which will have a ton of free updates and an XPAC by then giving far more, for less. And by the time that is out there will be several other large F2P games out with Black Desert not far from that giving us an actual sandbox and not some me too game using a popular IPs name to garner sales because it couldn't without it.
Besides, we all know these games will be Freemium shortly after release anyways, even those of you with your heads in the sand pretending with each new game that somehow, this one will turn out different.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Besides, we all know these games will be Freemium shortly after release anyways, even those of you with your heads in the sand pretending with each new game that somehow, this one will turn out different.
That is likely.
But again, i don't think f2p players actually cares that much. There are plenty of other games to play. My attitude is that *if* they turn f2p, i may give them a look. It is not like i have to play these games or anything. There is just too much entertainment out there.
Besides, we all know these games will be Freemium shortly after release anyways, even those of you with your heads in the sand pretending with each new game that somehow, this one will turn out different.
That is likely.
But again, i don't think f2p players actually cares that much. There are plenty of other games to play. My attitude is that *if* they turn f2p, i may give them a look. It is not like i have to play these games or anything. There is just too much entertainment out there.
For someone that doesen't care, you sure talk a lot about them. All the time
As for the original topic, there are already some very sucessful p2p games out there, so it's a little hard to deny they aren' viable. I would rather play a game for free (who wouldn't), but from experience I have not played a single f2p game for more than a couple weeks, or months for lack of better entertainment. while nearly every p2p game I've tried lasted me for several years and still going for some of them. I've not spent a cent on f2p games at all, and I've tried nearly all of them - and after seeing most of them turning into a glorified casino I don't regret my decision at all. I think I'm not alone in this.
In the end, any game is going to survive in whatever model they have, as long as they're good enough. Any f2p can survive thesedays no matter how badly managed it is, thanks to paytards. I've seen it happen too many times to absolutely terrible games and they're still there, but I don't see how anything short of a solid game can survive in the p2p market. SImply put, if people aren't getting their money's worth after a month they will quit - so technically it can't survive unless it's worth paying for every month by a sustainable user base, and there's very little to argue against this. Most f2p games survive with like 1-3% of the total population actually spending a dime (will link source when I find it), so they can afford suck tremendously and only appeal to a small group of whales to actually survive - and that's what happens most of the time.
Originally posted by boxsnd It's sad that some devs seem to not be able to learn. No P2P MMO released after 2004 survived, yet they still try.
That's because they keep trying to offer the same thing expecting different results. That sounds like the exact definition of something I can't quite place at the present time..hmmm...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Besides, we all know these games will be Freemium shortly after release anyways, even those of you with your heads in the sand pretending with each new game that somehow, this one will turn out different.
That is likely.
But again, i don't think f2p players actually cares that much. There are plenty of other games to play. My attitude is that *if* they turn f2p, i may give them a look. It is not like i have to play these games or anything. There is just too much entertainment out there.
Yeah but sadly I am also a big time TES fan that actually wants a good TES game, not another royal PoS which is what we are getting and one doomed to a mediocre life fully because no sub game that goes freemium ever maintains a good enough revenue stream to fund it getting better. Going with a good model from the start will prevent the half-assed job that always ends up handicapping a game where as a cash shop that has been focused on for a long time is created with top quality items and it maintains a good revenue stream.
Hell, a TES game can have a never ending supply of items if they had made the game an ACTUAL TES game. User created content could even be sold with a portion of it going to the company for *%#$s s#($! Jesus, the only reason the TES series got so damn popular was due to the modding community, so much so that they even made the console version of Skyrim capable of being modded and worked directly with the community to make sure it was easy.
Shortsighted game development being driven by a corporation which only makes it worse. Its no wonder Asian companies are taking over the market and buying so many others out. Far too many living in the past right down to the base game design.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
You have to be trolling me if you think my entire argument is based on WoW. I only mentioned WoW one time as an example of an mmo that is p2p and has a vaniy cash shop with box sales. Since you just read the first paragraph of my post and disregarded the rest i shall do the same to you and disregard the rest of your entire post.
Going by your responses, your complete lack in ability to counter point things that show you are wrong along with the way others are as well, only to be ignored...you are the troll.
says the one with a troll avatar. you clearly didn't read anything past the first paragraph of the post you last quoted me in.
Launching P2P makes the most sense because companies want to ensure that they recoup their development costs as quickly as possible.
If the game tanks 3 months down the road then they'll consider F2P to keep it going.
Why would any developer / publisher leave money on the table when they know MMO gamers are desperate and will pretty much throw money at any supposed AAA quality games.
Not to mention all of the people who will pay a sub because they seem to think that P2P makes the community better. I can debunk that theory in one word: "Tera"
Tera was P2P at launch and had one of the worst communities I've ever seen.
Besides, we all know these games will be Freemium shortly after release anyways, even those of you with your heads in the sand pretending with each new game that somehow, this one will turn out different.
That is likely.
But again, i don't think f2p players actually cares that much. There are plenty of other games to play. My attitude is that *if* they turn f2p, i may give them a look. It is not like i have to play these games or anything. There is just too much entertainment out there.
Yeah but sadly I am also a big time TES fan that actually wants a good TES game, not another royal PoS which is what we are getting and one doomed to a mediocre life fully because no sub game that goes freemium ever maintains a good enough revenue stream to fund it getting better. Going with a good model from the start will prevent the half-assed job that always ends up handicapping a game where as a cash shop that has been focused on for a long time is created with top quality items and it maintains a good revenue stream.
Hell, a TES game can have a never ending supply of items if they had made the game an ACTUAL TES game. User created content could even be sold with a portion of it going to the company for *%#$s s#($! Jesus, the only reason the TES series got so damn popular was due to the modding community, so much so that they even made the console version of Skyrim capable of being modded and worked directly with the community to make sure it was easy.
Shortsighted game development being driven by a corporation which only makes it worse. Its no wonder Asian companies are taking over the market and buying so many others out. Far too many living in the past right down to the base game design.
Yes, because you know for a fact that TESO is a bad game when it hasn't even been released yet and that it is eventually going to go F2P, right? Wow, people that are defending F2P are coming off as extremely assumptious.
Yeah but sadly I am also a big time TES fan that actually wants a good TES game, not another royal PoS which is what we are getting and one doomed to a mediocre life fully because no sub game that goes freemium ever maintains a good enough revenue stream to fund it getting better. Going with a good model from the start will prevent the half-assed job that always ends up handicapping a game where as a cash shop that has been focused on for a long time is created with top quality items and it maintains a good revenue stream.
You can always play the next TES single player game.
There are many MMOs that would be better games if they are SP RPG instead.
Dont worry f2pers, you will always have Nexon and Perfect World games to play as well as the P2P games that arent liked enough to stay sub based.
I don't think anyone is worrying.
There are so many f2p fun games that the only thing i worry about is the lack of time.
It is just amusing to see so many try to hard to stick their head in the sand and refuse to see that sub-only games are no longer the trend.
I dont think anyone denied that up until recently the current rend was f2p. Now the trend, at least for the moment, is clearly p2p with 3 of the 4 biggest upcoming AAA MMOs announced as p2p.
Basically, both payment models are here to stay. As they have been for years.
Why do they even try or bother with P2P, why not make it B2P at release. Most likely all of the new mmorpgs that are P2P will go over to B2P or F2P in a few months. No one wants to pay monthly for a game, there's a few who would but those are a minority and the majority wins every time and still developers want P2P. For what reason?
LMFAO, troll thread, but here, I'll put my input in to your thought.
No one wants P2P? Then WoW and EVE would of been dead 8 years ago, instead they are still growing in population and FF14 will have a lot of players.
I can understand you're the type of person that has a hacked version of windows and always getting bugs and being kicked out of games which is irritating, but there comes a time in life where you need to grow up and assume your sorry self, if not then please do everyone a favor and stick to Call of Duty. A favor because these kinds of posts makes me laugh so hard that I sometimes pee myself.
What I don't understand is why MMO's in 2013 are still F2P? Of course it's easy you, download, play the game for 2-3 hours, don't like it and move on. So basically you got nothing going for you since you're jumping from MMO to MMO for no apparent reason, therefor a unreliable gamer to play with.
Anyways those that P2P want a quality gaming experience online, and that will never die no matter how hard you trollers try, so keep on trolling, it's always a good laugh and read! And God Bless CCP, Blizzard and SquareEnix on keeping the P2P era alive and kicking ass!
You have to be trolling me if you think my entire argument is based on WoW. I only mentioned WoW one time as an example of an mmo that is p2p and has a vaniy cash shop with box sales. Since you just read the first paragraph of my post and disregarded the rest i shall do the same to you and disregard the rest of your entire post.
Going by your responses, your complete lack in ability to counter point things that show you are wrong along with the way others are as well, only to be ignored...you are the troll.
says the one with a troll avatar. you clearly didn't read anything past the first paragraph of the post you last quoted me in.
Troll avatar...and to think I didn't think the derp could get bigger.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Not to mention all of the people who will pay a sub because they seem to think that P2P makes the community better. I can debunk that theory in one word: "Tera"
Tera was P2P at launch and had one of the worst communities I've ever seen.
Obviously the game factors in too. A game like LOTRO or EQ2 is going to draw a more mature base than a game like Tera regardless of the model. However, LOTRO and EQ2 both have a worse community post f2p, but still probably above average.
I dont think anyone denied that up until recently the current rend was f2p. Now the trend, at least for the moment, is clearly p2p with 3 of the 4 biggest upcoming AAA MMOs announced as p2p.
Basically, both payment models are here to stay. As they have been for years.
How about Destiny and Division? How about other MOBAs?
Sure .. no one can predict that future perfectly. And i doubt sub-only game will suddenly all die. But we will see if these games will be successful, or they will turn f2p fast like so many before them.
Yeah but sadly I am also a big time TES fan that actually wants a good TES game, not another royal PoS which is what we are getting and one doomed to a mediocre life fully because no sub game that goes freemium ever maintains a good enough revenue stream to fund it getting better. Going with a good model from the start will prevent the half-assed job that always ends up handicapping a game where as a cash shop that has been focused on for a long time is created with top quality items and it maintains a good revenue stream.
You can always play the next TES single player game.
There are many MMOs that would be better games if they are SP RPG instead.
No, actually when a corporation decides to take a loved IP and whore it, I tend to not give them anymore of my money unless I see changes on the corporate as well as game levels.
EA, Sony, Microsoft and Zenimax are on my no buy list. I am not missing out on anything, the quality levels are much higher elsewhere anyway and by companies that actually care about the product as well as the consumers that buy them. Bethesda games are crap without the modding community.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Not to mention all of the people who will pay a sub because they seem to think that P2P makes the community better. I can debunk that theory in one word: "Tera"
Tera was P2P at launch and had one of the worst communities I've ever seen.
Obviously the game factors in too. A game like LOTRO or EQ2 is going to draw a more mature base than a game like Tera regardless of the model. However, LOTRO and EQ2 both have a worse community post f2p, but still probably above average.
I doubt a majority of players care that much about community to the point will to pay a sub for it.
Yeah but sadly I am also a big time TES fan that actually wants a good TES game, not another royal PoS which is what we are getting and one doomed to a mediocre life fully because no sub game that goes freemium ever maintains a good enough revenue stream to fund it getting better. Going with a good model from the start will prevent the half-assed job that always ends up handicapping a game where as a cash shop that has been focused on for a long time is created with top quality items and it maintains a good revenue stream.
You can always play the next TES single player game.
There are many MMOs that would be better games if they are SP RPG instead.
No, actually when a corporation decides to take a loved IP and whore it, I tend to not give them anymore of my money unless I see changes on the corporate as well as game levels.
EA, Sony, Microsoft and Zenimax are on my no buy list. I am not missing out on anything, the quality levels are much higher elsewhere anyway and by companies that actually care about the product as well as the consumers that buy them. Bethesda games are crap without the modding community.
It's really funny how you keep insulting TESO even though the game isn't even out yet. Keep on stating things you don't even know to be facts please.
Ah sweet subscription! How I've missed you. I know I've been unfaithful, but all those tarty F2Ps I dallied with never meant anything to me, really. They were just dirty distractions, a flock of flimsy floozies who kept pestering me for money. I don't even remember their names...
Comments
Ok with this recent wave of p2p coming out who wants to bet, that most if not all have cash shops as well?
In that spirit I suggest we come up with a new term:
p2p includes box sales + sub
b2p includes box sales
f2p includes cash shop
So what do we call something that includes box sale + subs + cash shop? suggestions?
You have no way of knowing that and from your previous posts on the subject, I'm going to be blunt: Your attitude is piss poor. You seem to be upset that the subscription model is making a comeback, and you can be upset, but there's no need to be a sarcastic twit about it.
Developers that make their game subscription based usually care more about their games. The customer service is way better usually too. Free to play companies like Nexon literally take years to answer tickets. I literally waited 2 years for them to answer a ticket only for them to close it on me without answering me or helping me with my problem.
Smile
Going by your responses, your complete lack in ability to counter point things that show you are wrong along with the way others are as well, only to be ignored...you are the troll.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Who actually thinks FFXIV, Wildstar or TESO are AAA MMOS?!?
lol...and the little about EQN that is out doesn't point to anything better than GW2 which will have a ton of free updates and an XPAC by then giving far more, for less. And by the time that is out there will be several other large F2P games out with Black Desert not far from that giving us an actual sandbox and not some me too game using a popular IPs name to garner sales because it couldn't without it.
Besides, we all know these games will be Freemium shortly after release anyways, even those of you with your heads in the sand pretending with each new game that somehow, this one will turn out different.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Why? it is not like there is a lack of f2p games to play?
I like playing FPS but not with a gangster setting. It is not like i get upset when they make more GTA. I simply don't play it.
That is likely.
But again, i don't think f2p players actually cares that much. There are plenty of other games to play. My attitude is that *if* they turn f2p, i may give them a look. It is not like i have to play these games or anything. There is just too much entertainment out there.
For someone that doesen't care, you sure talk a lot about them. All the time
As for the original topic, there are already some very sucessful p2p games out there, so it's a little hard to deny they aren' viable. I would rather play a game for free (who wouldn't), but from experience I have not played a single f2p game for more than a couple weeks, or months for lack of better entertainment. while nearly every p2p game I've tried lasted me for several years and still going for some of them. I've not spent a cent on f2p games at all, and I've tried nearly all of them - and after seeing most of them turning into a glorified casino I don't regret my decision at all. I think I'm not alone in this.
In the end, any game is going to survive in whatever model they have, as long as they're good enough. Any f2p can survive thesedays no matter how badly managed it is, thanks to paytards. I've seen it happen too many times to absolutely terrible games and they're still there, but I don't see how anything short of a solid game can survive in the p2p market. SImply put, if people aren't getting their money's worth after a month they will quit - so technically it can't survive unless it's worth paying for every month by a sustainable user base, and there's very little to argue against this. Most f2p games survive with like 1-3% of the total population actually spending a dime (will link source when I find it), so they can afford suck tremendously and only appeal to a small group of whales to actually survive - and that's what happens most of the time.
That's because they keep trying to offer the same thing expecting different results. That sounds like the exact definition of something I can't quite place at the present time..hmmm...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yeah but sadly I am also a big time TES fan that actually wants a good TES game, not another royal PoS which is what we are getting and one doomed to a mediocre life fully because no sub game that goes freemium ever maintains a good enough revenue stream to fund it getting better. Going with a good model from the start will prevent the half-assed job that always ends up handicapping a game where as a cash shop that has been focused on for a long time is created with top quality items and it maintains a good revenue stream.
Hell, a TES game can have a never ending supply of items if they had made the game an ACTUAL TES game. User created content could even be sold with a portion of it going to the company for *%#$s s#($! Jesus, the only reason the TES series got so damn popular was due to the modding community, so much so that they even made the console version of Skyrim capable of being modded and worked directly with the community to make sure it was easy.
Shortsighted game development being driven by a corporation which only makes it worse. Its no wonder Asian companies are taking over the market and buying so many others out. Far too many living in the past right down to the base game design.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
says the one with a troll avatar. you clearly didn't read anything past the first paragraph of the post you last quoted me in.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Because talking is fun.
You don't think i am trying to change minds, do you? This is the internet, you know.
Launching P2P makes the most sense because companies want to ensure that they recoup their development costs as quickly as possible.
If the game tanks 3 months down the road then they'll consider F2P to keep it going.
Why would any developer / publisher leave money on the table when they know MMO gamers are desperate and will pretty much throw money at any supposed AAA quality games.
Not to mention all of the people who will pay a sub because they seem to think that P2P makes the community better. I can debunk that theory in one word: "Tera"
Tera was P2P at launch and had one of the worst communities I've ever seen.
Yes, because you know for a fact that TESO is a bad game when it hasn't even been released yet and that it is eventually going to go F2P, right? Wow, people that are defending F2P are coming off as extremely assumptious.
Smile
You can always play the next TES single player game.
There are many MMOs that would be better games if they are SP RPG instead.
I dont think anyone denied that up until recently the current rend was f2p. Now the trend, at least for the moment, is clearly p2p with 3 of the 4 biggest upcoming AAA MMOs announced as p2p.
Basically, both payment models are here to stay. As they have been for years.
LMFAO, troll thread, but here, I'll put my input in to your thought.
No one wants P2P? Then WoW and EVE would of been dead 8 years ago, instead they are still growing in population and FF14 will have a lot of players.
I can understand you're the type of person that has a hacked version of windows and always getting bugs and being kicked out of games which is irritating, but there comes a time in life where you need to grow up and assume your sorry self, if not then please do everyone a favor and stick to Call of Duty. A favor because these kinds of posts makes me laugh so hard that I sometimes pee myself.
What I don't understand is why MMO's in 2013 are still F2P? Of course it's easy you, download, play the game for 2-3 hours, don't like it and move on. So basically you got nothing going for you since you're jumping from MMO to MMO for no apparent reason, therefor a unreliable gamer to play with.
Anyways those that P2P want a quality gaming experience online, and that will never die no matter how hard you trollers try, so keep on trolling, it's always a good laugh and read!
And God Bless CCP, Blizzard and SquareEnix on keeping the P2P era alive and kicking ass! 
Troll avatar...and to think I didn't think the derp could get bigger.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Obviously the game factors in too. A game like LOTRO or EQ2 is going to draw a more mature base than a game like Tera regardless of the model. However, LOTRO and EQ2 both have a worse community post f2p, but still probably above average.
How about Destiny and Division? How about other MOBAs?
Sure .. no one can predict that future perfectly. And i doubt sub-only game will suddenly all die. But we will see if these games will be successful, or they will turn f2p fast like so many before them.
It will be interesting to see though.
No, actually when a corporation decides to take a loved IP and whore it, I tend to not give them anymore of my money unless I see changes on the corporate as well as game levels.
EA, Sony, Microsoft and Zenimax are on my no buy list. I am not missing out on anything, the quality levels are much higher elsewhere anyway and by companies that actually care about the product as well as the consumers that buy them. Bethesda games are crap without the modding community.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I doubt a majority of players care that much about community to the point will to pay a sub for it.
If so, f2p wouldn't have been the trend.
If so, solo-content wouldn't have been the trend.
It's really funny how you keep insulting TESO even though the game isn't even out yet. Keep on stating things you don't even know to be facts please.
Smile