Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Not your typical Theme Park
GeezerGamer
Member EpicPosts: 8,857
There is no doubt this is a Final Fantasy is 100% Theme Park. However, as I get up in levels, I am beginning to see where the handholding has entirely dropped off and the quest hubs have all but dried up. In conjunction with the multi-class system and the advanced crafting systems. I am finding myself with huge amounts of freedom to do what I want and how I want to do it.
This game keeps expanding and every few levels, they have been removing the training wheels. ARR has more options and freedom at higher levels than most other (if not any other) Theme Parks I have played in. One option that is not available is to simply run to the next quest hub. When I play I know I am in a Theme Park, but the "Feel" of it, the question of "What do I do next" is very reminiscent of some of my older games like SWG and AO.
(By upper levels, I mean 20, but in multiple classes)
Comments
No not at all a sand bot or sand anything. I don't consider multiclassing a sandbox thing.
Yeah you are pretty much let loose in the game world with a couple of options as to what to do between storyline quests.
The storyline quests however, does a too good of a job at putting you in a hub with a LOT of quests you can do.
So for the most part you can let the storyline guide you. But yeah...you get some options. Also I agree with the higher levels opening up more. Typically games like this will give you a few branches early on then funnel you into one endgame path...and that path you spend the most time at so it gets boring...so its nice that you have mid game options (haven't gotten to endgame so cant say)
I always get confused by posts like this, one of the worst parts of SWG to me was the fact ( even Koster talks about this) they had no time to make questing viable, they were stuck with relying on a grind out skill point advancement system. There were no options in SWG in regard to how to skill up, unless you count what spawn point to camp or which solo group to join.
This is most surely not where SWG shined. I hope what you're saying is not that they take away the final fantasy part of the adventure, and leave you to grind out dungeon after dungeon or fate after fate, to reach a finished build.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Been seeing the "play how you want" trend from Devs over the last few years but that usually turns into a perfectly straight quest line(this game can have that if you want).
I am an altoholic and this game is horrible for people like me. Being able to do everything on one character....
There is not enough time in the day to do everything I want to do. I've played 15+ mmos and I don't remember having this problem before. Thank God you can queue for dungeons as one class and switch to another class to do something else.
I'll be queued for a dungeon as my Dragoon, start doing quests on my Marauder, then end up in a different zone farming Fates on my low level Archer......then I'll realize I never even tried 7 of the profession classes....then the dungeon will pop....I just unlocked my next story quest so now I can go forward.....BUT I STILL NEED TO DO MY LEVEL 20 CLASS QUEST ON MY PUG. AHHHHHHHHHH
I want to do so much but all I ended up doing last night was run dungeons and fates on my main class. All I can think about right now is working on my Archer when I get off work, but I social obligations will push that back to about midnight.
Just too much to do and I don't have the 100 hours a day to do it all.
There are FATEs and Dungeons. But in addition to that, there are, Guild Leves, Guildhests, GC Missions, The Hunting Log, and there are some other Quests to do.
Also, my reference to SWG was more or less about the crafting part of the game. IMO, FF14 has the most comprehensive crafting system since SWG.
No.
being able to go to whatever quest hub you want is not a sandbox feature, nor is it player freedom.
Now, that does not mean FFXIV has no sandbox features. Housing is a sandbox-ish feature.
Quest hubs, no matter what order you do them in are the least sandbox feature I can think of.
Quest hubs go away. Then you have to figure out for yourself how to level.
Definitely, not a sandbox. Not to mention a FF sandbox wouldn't be a good idea anyway. SWG worked because it's a consistant universe and whatever you do in that universe makes enough sense because it's an grand open idea. Each Final Fantasy game follows it's own unique story. Final Fantasy as a sandbox wouldn't be Final Fantasy.... just some secondlife clone with a combat system and final fantasy clothes.
I wonder about that. The crafting systems are so inter-dependent. And they have said that it will have a large role in endgame. As the crafts get up in the levels, they become more and more difficult to remain dedicated. So while it's possible for someone to achieve high levels in all crafts, it's not likely. The grind would be insane. So It's possible there may be a large community focus around trade and crafting.
When you level can you change the world?
Will workers always be trying to build that farm?
Will the outpost always be under attack?
Will Sally always need to find her missing goat?
Will that outpost always stay an outpost? or grow into a town or get completely blown away buy the enemy.
Now granted I haven't seen much of FFXIV so I cant answer these questions. But the yes or no to these will decide if FFXIV has sandbox features or not.
Wait a minute. I am not trying to argue FF14 is a sandbox. I am saying it has some freedoms and options that are generally found in a sandbox, or are at least unusual for a themepark.
Technically, if that is the criteria for a sandbox, then the later wow expansions are sandboxes. With the phasing they started using at the end of TBC many of the zones permanently change over time. So the through your progress the world changes, the workers finish building the farm, the outpost is no longer under attach, sally finds her goat, and your perception of the world is forever changed.
Understood,
However, the title of this thread is sandpark. I would not qualify a lack of game direction in later levels as sandbox features. Sandbox features allow players to shape the game world.
If we want to classify an MMO as a sandpark, I would give Archeage as a good example. Quest on rails beginning-mid game. With player housing / castle / ship building endgame as well as pirating / territory control. No ability to shape the entire game world, however designated zones that players can shape a great deal and shape the outcome.
I didn't say those are the qualifications for a game to become a sandbox. Those are sandbox features, and yes you are correct. WoW does have some sandbox features.
To remove the confusion, I have edited the title.
Simply put, the OP is just using the wrong term. There is nothing Sandbox about FFXIV, however, I think he means it feels more "free-roaming" than other games. Free-Roaming is something that tends to be in sandbox MMORPGs, but even that is not something that makes a game a sandbox.
So on that note, FFXIV has some extremely small amounts of free-roam to it. There are multiple starting cities and multiple paths to level up in.
That being said, they are still paths. You fight lvl 10 mobs so you can then fight lvl 11 mobs, so you can then fight level 12 mobs, so you can do level 13 quests, so you can do lvl 14 dungeons, etc etc....
It's still linear vertical progression on the rails with only a small amount of variation. It's a standard themepark MMO. Nothing innovative or different going on here. The game isn't bad. But lets not go around saying that it's sandbox, or has any meaningful free-roaming, or is different from previous games.
Just enjoy it for what it is. Another save-the-world linear themepark, with the bonus of being Final Fantasy (If you're a fan of the franchise).
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world
An open world is a type of video game level design where a player can roam freely through a virtual world and is given considerable freedom in choosing how or when to approach objectives.[1] The term "free roam" is also used, as is "sandbox" and "free-roaming".[2][3] "Open world" and "free-roaming" suggest the absence of artificial barriers,[4] in contrast to the invisible walls and loading screens that are common in linear level designs. An "open world" game does not necessarily imply a sandbox. In a true "sandbox", the player has tools to modify the world themselves and create how they play.[5] Generally open world games still enforce some restrictions in the game environment, either due to absolute technical limitations or in-game limitations (such as locked areas) imposed by a game's linearity.
For the most part I just ignore the quests at this point and just play on my own.
Have gear from my dungeon runs that I can use on my "alt" classes, which is one of myf avorite things in this game.
SoE proposed to make the biggest sandbox yet. But I still see a Theme Park. Just because they have given tools to the players to create content, doesn't mean that content is not a Theme Park experience.. Themeparks still need development. Who does it doesn't define the nature of the game or experience. For 99.9% of EQN's playerbase, it will be someone else's content that is created. The experience is still Theme Park. And for those few who actually are able to create content for the game, it will be a sliver of the content they create. For the rest of the game it will again be mostly someone else's content. The developer passing on the task of creating it has all the sudden become the definition of Sandbox. With such blurred lines and definitions of what a sand box is, how can anyone say what is or isn't anymore?
In my opinion, the appeal of sandboxes has always been about freedom. In that sense, I think it is relevant to talk about how much freedom you feel you have in FFXIV.
The only other not so typical themepark MMO that describes the above and I have played is Lineage II (pre-GoD) where after level 40 the handholding is almost completely gone and from level 65 you're already in need to grind from level to level. And when you hit sub-classes, you're all on your own since most quest (all in most cases) have already been done and you need to really grind your way up in level.
FFXIV:ARR feels much like the old Lineage Ii I used to love. Playing it right now, not high in level yet (15 and 10 on main jobs) and I already see that the quests are starting to get scarce. I really can't wait to get to higher levels where I have to keep myself busy and need to party to level up. It's so much a WIN-WIN game this!
Grinding with friends is a million times more fun than doing linear scripted instanced easy chores for 60 levels.
Themeparks don't give you leveling options, generally. In DAoC I could do tasks, battlegrounds, group grinding, occasional quests, ect. In a game like LotRO, your only option is to quest grind. It's an anti social anti MMO activity. So I'm glad that, given having to choose ONE, they chose the better one.
I don't know yet, but it looks like it will take longer than what many have initially estimated. Plus there is also development beyond level cap. Once you get to max level there are other things you need to do to finish off. There is some horizontal progression before you are reasonably "done" Or if not Horizontal progression, maybe alternative vertical progression. But now that's semantics. The thing is, with this game, there is never a need for an alt. Anything in the game that you can ever experience, can be done on one character. One character can level every craft, every class and every job if given enough time and effort. But the number to answer your question is more than I could even guess at right now.
I'll have to respectively disagree at least where SWG was concerned as most went about "grinding" AFK through macros.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson