Originally posted by SirBalin For me it's the lack of pvp...looked at it..and I can't stand only having pvp in one area...regardless of size. If the add a pvp server, i'll be interested again.
It's an entire country the size of Oblivion. Lack of?
You have an entire country.
There's also a TON of area just for pve...I personally just get turned off by that.
Thats not what you said..
If 8 full PvP zones dont sattisfie you, and being able to fully level trough PvP from level 10 on..... Then why are you still on this website? Everyoen knows that an RPG game is about story and playing together with your friends... And not about ganking.
Hell there is 1/4 th of this world designated to PvP, and you can wven PvE in those PvP zones, thats more the enough to sattisfy most everyones soul. I think some people are spreading misinformation on this site with nothing but the purpose to harm games...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
They first came and said this will be a pvp game. then it changed to a pve game and now its a console game...Im not sure where they gone head further down the road, but this just seems to turn out wrong. The other problem I have with this game is the release date. Its coming out 2014... There's going to be a lot of good games comming out at 2014. Shroud of the Avatar, Star Citizen and sure some I forgot. So TESO really has to shine if I should spend some cash on it.
I think that TESO is just following the pattern of most games that come out these days. I follow the hype rankings on the Game List here at mmorpg.com just about daily and over the past few years I've seen a few patterns emerge:
- The first few days after a new title is released it usually goes up in rank to the top 5 rated/hyped games, only to plummet a few days later. (unless it's a gem that sticks around)
- Games like EQ Next which are announced and hyped before having any footage and/or real info released always take the #1 spot until people realize it's not going to be their dream mmorpg come true.
- Good games tend to fall down on the hype meter until a few months before they are released, then they slowly start to climb again. Case in point: Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn was down next to TESO and Wildstar a few days ago and is now climbing higher as we approach release.
- As a whole, mmo gamers are very cynical because we have seen so many crappy games come and go. When it comes to a franchise such as The Elder Scrolls, many of us have played and loved these games in their single player formats but are both concerned and excited at what the switch to an mmo format means.
Overall, I think that as this game comes closer to release we'll see it's hype rankings go up. I think it's going to take a lot of people watching videos and realizing that it is an actual Elder Scrolls game and not just an attempt at an mmorpg port of a console game. This game being available on xbox One and PS4 is no different than Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim having console ports, so I don't quite understand the logic of complaining about that part.
Regardless, it will be interesting to watch how this game's hype ebbs and flows and how the development comes along.
I agree with what this person wrote regarding hype. Also, there are a lot of immature folks here that pick just one game they like, and then go into the hype ratings of other competing games and put a 1 to hopefully boost the hype of the game they support. Its like people arn't capable of liking more than one game. I have 4 games I am looking forward to, some more than others and they are hyped like that. I wouldn't take the hype meter seriously as it doesn't necessarily reflect the millions of others outside of these forums many of which never heard of this site.
I have hyped games before and been wrong. I overhyped TOR and that game didn't meet my expectation and I still am stuck at level 48 because I just don't feel like ever logging in lol. ESO may fail, but to me it seems to be holding true to the things I would expect for an ESO online game and I'm excited about it. No hype meter or bashing from sandbox fans, EQ Next Fans, Wild Star Fans, or Final Fantasy Fans is going to change that. 3 of the 4 of those games Im actually looking forward to.
The only thing I think is retarded is this whole is it an MMO or Mutiplayer. Who cares? Its giving what most ESO fans wanted, the ability to play with others without using a failed multiplayer mod that was horrible. Also, since when does have a couple of hundred on the screen for PVP and a 1000 in a zone not massive? Now I agree we need to see more of this gameplay in person, we will, but that is their minimum target and I have no reason not to trust them.
One word >>Zenimax.Only reason i will pay attention at all is they have singed on board ID games,John Carmack but i am not sure if he has any impact on this game what so ever.
I have player Elder Scroll games and to be honest,they are just ho hum to me,i never feel compelled to finish any of them.I am not so sure they even know how to create a group immersive feeling,nobody else has either,they are all making individual solo type games with added internet.
I will NEED to see a playable trial of this game before i will buy .
Also i should make note that MARKETING is huge in this industry,Blizzard,SOE are the big spenders in that department,Zenimax remains sort of quiet and hidden.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
They first came and said this will be a pvp game. then it changed to a pve game and now its a console game...Im not sure where they gone head further down the road, but this just seems to turn out wrong. The other problem I have with this game is the release date. Its coming out 2014... There's going to be a lot of good games comming out at 2014. Shroud of the Avatar, Star Citizen and sure some I forgot. So TESO really has to shine if I should spend some cash on it.
It still is. The only thing that has changed is the current target for their hype - TES players who may or may not play MMOs.
Nothing has changed with the development plans for AvA in Cyrodiil except their current desire to keep that information off center stage.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
One word >>Zenimax.Only reason i will pay attention at all is they have singed on board ID games,John Carmack but i am not sure if he has any impact on this game what so ever.
I have player Elder Scroll games and to be honest,they are just ho hum to me,i never feel compelled to finish any of them.I am not so sure they even know how to create a group immersive feeling,nobody else has either,they are all making individual solo type games with added internet.
I will NEED to see a playable trial of this game before i will buy .
Also i should make note that MARKETING is huge in this industry,Blizzard,SOE are the big spenders in that department,Zenimax remains sort of quiet and hidden.
Zenimax is as much part from Bethesda as Bethesda itselves... Its just names, its a new development team created for this game partly comming from other elder scrolls games and partly comming from other top MMOs.
Both Zenimax and Bethesda where started by the same man... But thats not the point, you should not judge a company, but you should judge a development team
and in the MMO buiseness a good game does not need marketing at all to sell. The. Money is better spend on development
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I agree with 2 though I know people would argue that TES games are not sandboxes.
As far as "1" goes, they did say that but they also said that the reason they said that was so that non-mmo players, or more to the point "Elder Scrolls players" wouldn't be turned off by the game.
So "yes" it's an mmo but players who are not used to mmo's will find game play elements to relate to.
Well.................. Warcraft fans weren't bothered by the fact WoW was a MMO, were they?
That's bad marketing communication from Zenimax, they are creating unecessary confusion.
As for the Sandbox comment, I ll try to explain what I mean.
Take 2 of the major single player games in the market, both similar games, both RPGs, both good in their own way, but at the same time so different
Take Bioware Mass Effect RPG, it is a linear game.
Take Bethesda Skyrim RPG, it is a NON linear game, it allows freedom, which to me it's another term for Sandbox
Now translate them into a MMO
Bioware made SWTOR which is a linear MMO (they've been faithful to their philosophy)
Bethesda is making ESO, which should be NON linear, with lots of freedom (hence a Sandbox) like in the single player game.
In the second case Bethesda is not following the same principle that followed the whole TES series, which was based on NON linearity, and total freedom.
That's why people like me are not happy with Bethesda (Zenimax).
Skyrim with the same gameplay of Mass Effect, is not Skyrim is it?
So why they making ESO with the same gameplay of SWTOR?...........see where I am getting at?
I agree with 2 though I know people would argue that TES games are not sandboxes.
As far as "1" goes, they did say that but they also said that the reason they said that was so that non-mmo players, or more to the point "Elder Scrolls players" wouldn't be turned off by the game.
So "yes" it's an mmo but players who are not used to mmo's will find game play elements to relate to.
Well.................. Warcraft fans weren't bothered by the fact WoW was a MMO, were they?
That's bad marketing communication from Zenimax, they are creating unecessary confusion.
As for the Sandbox comment, I ll try to explain what I mean.
Take 2 of the major single player games in the market, both similar games, both RPGs, both good in their own way, but at the same time so different
Take Bioware Mass Effect RPG, it is a linear game.
Take Bethesda Skyrim RPG, it is a NON linear game, it allows freedom, which to me it's another term for Sandbox
Now translate them into a MMO
Bioware made SWTOR which is a linear MMO (they've been faithful to their philosophy)
Bethesda is making ESO, which should be NON linear, with lots of freedom (hence a Sandbox) like in the single player game.
In the second case Bethesda is not following the same principle that followed the whole TES series, which was based on NON linearity, and total freedom.
That's why people like me are not happy with Bethesda (Zenimax).
Skyrim with the same gameplay of Mass Effect, is not Skyrim is it?
So why they making ESO with the same gameplay of SWTOR?...........see where I am getting at?
How many times do they have to post that this is not Skyrim online. There are limitations to what one can do for a single player game versus online an appeal to both crowds. Its nearly impossible. SWTOR was a complete corridor, even within the zones themselves. I think exploration is more important than complete Skyrim freedom and as long as you don't feel like you are in a very narrow corridor like TOR, that you can't progress without doing the exact same activities as everyone else, and that the zones themselves are large enough to allow for some type of freedom knowing the leveled limitations I think most will be happy. For me it has to feel more open than WOW, but not so much as Vanguard..a happy medium..for me to be happy. If it doesn't have that from a PVE perspective, I won't make it to the end.
I agree with 2 though I know people would argue that TES games are not sandboxes.
As far as "1" goes, they did say that but they also said that the reason they said that was so that non-mmo players, or more to the point "Elder Scrolls players" wouldn't be turned off by the game.
So "yes" it's an mmo but players who are not used to mmo's will find game play elements to relate to.
Well.................. Warcraft fans weren't bothered by the fact WoW was a MMO, were they?
That's bad marketing communication from Zenimax, they are creating unecessary confusion.
As for the Sandbox comment, I ll try to explain what I mean.
Take 2 of the major single player games in the market, both similar games, both RPGs, both good in their own way, but at the same time so different
Take Bioware Mass Effect RPG, it is a linear game.
Take Bethesda Skyrim RPG, it is a NON linear game, it allows freedom, which to me it's another term for Sandbox
Now translate them into a MMO
Bioware made SWTOR which is a linear MMO (they've been faithful to their philosophy)
Bethesda is making ESO, which should be NON linear, with lots of freedom (hence a Sandbox) like in the single player game.
In the second case Bethesda is not following the same principle that followed the whole TES series, which was based on NON linearity, and total freedom.
That's why people like me are not happy with Bethesda (Zenimax).
Skyrim with the same gameplay of Mass Effect, is not Skyrim is it?
So why they making ESO with the same gameplay of SWTOR?...........see where I am getting at?
Can you please explain to me where TESO is less linear then Skyrim?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I agree with 2 though I know people would argue that TES games are not sandboxes.
As far as "1" goes, they did say that but they also said that the reason they said that was so that non-mmo players, or more to the point "Elder Scrolls players" wouldn't be turned off by the game.
So "yes" it's an mmo but players who are not used to mmo's will find game play elements to relate to.
Well.................. Warcraft fans weren't bothered by the fact WoW was a MMO, were they?
That's bad marketing communication from Zenimax, they are creating unecessary confusion.
As for the Sandbox comment, I ll try to explain what I mean.
Take 2 of the major single player games in the market, both similar games, both RPGs, both good in their own way, but at the same time so different
Take Bioware Mass Effect RPG, it is a linear game.
Take Bethesda Skyrim RPG, it is a NON linear game, it allows freedom, which to me it's another term for Sandbox
Now translate them into a MMO
Bioware made SWTOR which is a linear MMO (they've been faithful to their philosophy)
Bethesda is making ESO, which should be NON linear, with lots of freedom (hence a Sandbox) like in the single player game.
In the second case Bethesda is not following the same principle that followed the whole TES series, which was based on NON linearity, and total freedom.
That's why people like me are not happy with Bethesda (Zenimax).
Skyrim with the same gameplay of Mass Effect, is not Skyrim is it?
So why they making ESO with the same gameplay of SWTOR?...........see where I am getting at?
Can you please explain to me where TESO is less linear then Skyrim?
I'll let him answer for himself, but I think one reason is that Skyrim NPCs level generally speaking to your level where ESO has NPCs of a static level in certain areas. That by itself prevents the ability to explore anywhere depending on your level. To be honest, I actually prefer the latter as I don't like everything leveling with you, though Skyrim did a much better job of this than Oblivion where I had to heavily mod that game.
If as I suspect ESO comes out before EQN I'll be playing it but I do not see anything to lead me to believe its anything more then a http://www.keenandgraev.com/2011/03/01/the-3-month-er and on top of that it doesn't appear to play like an Elder Scrolls game with an open world. Looks far too linear for an Elder Scrolls game.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
If as I suspect ESO comes out before EQN I'll be playing it but I do not see anything to lead me to believe its anything more then a http://www.keenandgraev.com/2011/03/01/the-3-month-er and on top of that it doesn't appear to play like an Elder Scrolls game with an open world. Looks far too linear for an Elder Scrolls game.
How do you feel it is far too linear? What have you seen that we haven't? Would you prefer that NPCs don't have levels like Oblvion and rats level with you?
How do you feel it is far too linear? What have you seen that we haven't? Would you prefer that NPCs don't have levels like Oblvion and rats level with you?
Actually yea, that would be a start.
I do not talk much about TESO, or comment much at all really, but I will come out and say I love Skyrim, I played...too much skyrim. I like Fallout as well. I liked the previous titles in both those lines as well. So when they slapped this name on this product it does set up some expectations and hopes that do not really seem to be being met, to me.
Some of it has really made me think about what I like about Skyrim and Fallout, and yes I realize there are MMO limitations but it is one thing to acknowledge that and another to completely give up because of it. Skyrim and Fallout both have a great and majestic sense of exploration beyond the less than consistent story line. After viewing these games through a new lens I think the reasons I like skyrim, and am hesistant about TESO are
Exploration- Again a key to these games, Something that gets curb stomped right down when you start putting in traditional MMO levels on creatures, At level 10 in skyrim I can go from one corner of the map to the other on a horse and it is great to just stumble across some new dungeon and go in it. Levels and MMO's make this impossible, always have, try walking through the outlands as a level 10 warrior in WoW, you can't the monsters kill you in 5 seconds, so you have to go grind up to the point that you can explore.
The thing is in Skyrim that content is such as challanging and rewarding at level 40 as it is at 10 but it also works the other way in an MMO if you go back to a starting area to explore you just one shot everything and it feels silly not rewarding, the equipment is junk and the mobs are no fun.
Mods- Obviously you can not have mods in an MMO, or not like they do in Skyrim, but I love Mods, Bethesda makes neat things but I never play a game of Skyrim now without amidian's armor retextures, certain tweaks, and maybe some of the awesome looking weapon mods and housing mods. It was actually EQnext's landmarks that made this one come on like a light bulb to me, I do not think a Bethesda game without mods would be as fun (this is why I do not play it on a console)
Epicishness- Lets face it in Oblivion or Skyrim you are THE hero, you are the motha fing Dragon Born with capital letters, you lead the mighty warriors guild, and the mages, and the thieves guild, and you just killed the emperor himself because you are the voice of the night mother. Obviously you can choose to be none of these things but in an MMO obviously can be none of these things even if you wanted to. I think the epic storyline of these games has to be sacrificed for MMO, any MMO even if it was more sandbox than themepark can not survive with one person being the head of every organization.
What I would like is a Dark Age of Camelot style game again, that is probably the best I would hope for, because while it wouldn't be skyrim DAOC is another classic game I would love to see in a modern MMO. I might play that TESO, but it seems the more info they release the less it seems to be resembling that. A DAOC style MMO with Elder Scrolls deep lore as a backdrop could be pretty darn cool, linear or not.
Can you please explain to me where TESO is less linear then Skyrim?
I'll let him answer for himself, but I think one reason is that Skyrim NPCs level generally speaking to your level where ESO has NPCs of a static level in certain areas. That by itself prevents the ability to explore anywhere depending on your level.
Basically this, thanks.
And in order to do that, ESO should have an Horizontal progression, like EQN for example.
And usually an Horizontal progression goes well with the Sandbox concept.
That's one of the reason I feel ESO should be a Sandbox game.
How do you feel it is far too linear? What have you seen that we haven't? Would you prefer that NPCs don't have levels like Oblvion and rats level with you?
Actually yea, that would be a start.
I do not talk much about TESO, or comment much at all really, but I will come out and say I love Skyrim, I played...too much skyrim. I like Fallout as well. I liked the previous titles in both those lines as well. So when they slapped this name on this product it does set up some expectations and hopes that do not really seem to be being met, to me.
Some of it has really made me think about what I like about Skyrim and Fallout, and yes I realize there are MMO limitations but it is one thing to acknowledge that and another to completely give up because of it. Skyrim and Fallout both have a great and majestic sense of exploration beyond the less than consistent story line. After viewing these games through a new lens I think the reasons I like skyrim, and am hesistant about TESO are
Exploration- Again a key to these games, Something that gets curb stomped right down when you start putting in traditional MMO levels on creatures, At level 10 in skyrim I can go from one corner of the map to the other on a horse and it is great to just stumble across some new dungeon and go in it. Levels and MMO's make this impossible, always have, try walking through the outlands as a level 10 warrior in WoW, you can't the monsters kill you in 5 seconds, so you have to go grind up to the point that you can explore.
The thing is in Skyrim that content is such as challanging and rewarding at level 40 as it is at 10 but it also works the other way in an MMO if you go back to a starting area to explore you just one shot everything and it feels silly not rewarding, the equipment is junk and the mobs are no fun.
Mods- Obviously you can not have mods in an MMO, or not like they do in Skyrim, but I love Mods, Bethesda makes neat things but I never play a game of Skyrim now without amidian's armor retextures, certain tweaks, and maybe some of the awesome looking weapon mods and housing mods. It was actually EQnext's landmarks that made this one come on like a light bulb to me, I do not think a Bethesda game without mods would be as fun (this is why I do not play it on a console)
Epicishness- Lets face it in Oblivion or Skyrim you are THE hero, you are the motha fing Dragon Born with capital letters, you lead the mighty warriors guild, and the mages, and the thieves guild, and you just killed the emperor himself because you are the voice of the night mother. Obviously you can choose to be none of these things but in an MMO obviously can be none of these things even if you wanted to. I think the epic storyline of these games has to be sacrificed for MMO, any MMO even if it was more sandbox than themepark can not survive with one person being the head of every organization.
What I would like is a Dark Age of Camelot style game again, that is probably the best I would hope for, because while it wouldn't be skyrim DAOC is another classic game I would love to see in a modern MMO. I might play that TESO, but it seems the more info they release the less it seems to be resembling that. A DAOC style MMO with Elder Scrolls deep lore as a backdrop could be pretty darn cool, linear or not.
Thanks for the intelligent response. I can't comment on Dark Age of Camelot because that is one of the few games I never played. I started with WOW in beta so that was before my MMO time as I focused back then on console games before I even realized there were online PC games lol.
I agree with you about all the things that make Skyrim so much fun. However, I disagree that the epic feeling at level 40 is the same at level 10. I am currently level 50 in Skyrim, part of all the guilds, finished at level 20-30 the main story line and all major side quests, I am currently just making sure I clear every possible dungeon, and then move on two the two expansions within the next couple of weeks. Since level 30, I feel completely overpowered, I haven't died once in at least 25 levels, my companion only died once (around level 20) so I got another, and my conjuration spells along with my companion are so strong that much of the time if I choose I could stand around and do nothing, so sometimes I force myself to play with a bow instead, either by conjuring one or by creating a new one...but I feel like the epicness of the game deteriorates once you complete the main quest and the major side ones that sort of branch from that. In fact I have so much money that I don't even know what to spend it on because almost nothing I find is equavelent to what I already have despite skills points in greater treasure finding percentages. From the way that ESO is set up, that feeling of epicness will hopefully continue through end level.
I can't even count how many people hated the leveling with you aspect of Oblivion which is why complete overhaul mods were developed to counter that. Regardless, this is more of a preference thing and I understand that others who prefer leveling with the creatures will prefer the single play model. Like I said in previous posts, Skyrim handled it better to me than Oblivion by at least keeping certain creatures low level.
Finally, there will be UI mods allowed in ESO, just not all of the ones we are used to seeing in the single player games for obvious reasons.
To be honest, except for the graphics downgrade from SKyrim (which hopefully by release wont be much), I may find that I like ESO more than Skyrim even though I love Skyrim.
Originally posted by palulalula i think that this game could be number one in next few years. Forum community was never prove for quality of the game. Just look how many times they failed in the past.
yeah this game is going to be successful from a business standpoint, but a lot of mmo purists that reside on these forums will absolutely hate it.
me? i will be playing it for sure, it actually looks like an ES game and has the more realistic art style that i like, unlike EQN
Can you please explain to me where TESO is less linear then Skyrim?
I'll let him answer for himself, but I think one reason is that Skyrim NPCs level generally speaking to your level where ESO has NPCs of a static level in certain areas. That by itself prevents the ability to explore anywhere depending on your level.
Basically this, thanks.
And in order to do that, ESO should have an Horizontal progression, like EQN for example.
And usually an Horizontal progression goes well with the Sandbox concept.
That's one of the reason I feel ESO should be a Sandbox game.
Things like this are a trade off, personally i just love the fact that levels give me a sense of progression, finding mobs that are to strong for me, continue to work hard, training new skills and then return is great.. If thats what you guys call a linear game.. Thats really stupid... Linear to me would mean a single path to level, being forced to follow the same path with every chatacter. If there would be a single zone for every level range, that would be linear, if i would have options to choose from several zones and levels while leveling, then it would not be linear. We dont know yet if this will be the case in TESO, dont we?
toush i dearly hope the game has downleveling in it, so that lower level zones keep some challenge to it instead of becomming one shotted. This was an awesome feature in GW 2 and truely something every mmo should copy. Either that or the EQ2 system, but i prefer the GW2 solution.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Because its like DAOC. RVR center of the map Zerging is not and never will be a true pvp experience. It also does not help that DAOC and GW2 are hated by a good chunk of players that is to say it is itself a niche type of mmo game. One I do not find compatible with Elder Scrolls lore or playstyle.
Originally posted by palulalula i think that this game could be number one in next few years. Forum community was never prove for quality of the game. Just look how many times they failed in the past.
yeah this game is going to be successful from a business standpoint, but a lot of mmo purists that reside on these forums will absolutely hate it.
me? i will be playing it for sure, it actually looks like an ES game and has the more realistic art style that i like, unlike EQN
- Theme park MMO (or at least it looks like it is going to be another quest run...)
I still might look after it is released because:
- It is Elder Scrolls game
- Character customization looks great
- Doesn't seem to have holy trinity
If I am going to get - then I am going to get long after release, When initial server problems are fixed and I can actually read some real reviews - instead of paid ads that look like reviews.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
Originally posted by SirBalin For me it's the lack of pvp...looked at it..and I can't stand only having pvp in one area...regardless of size. If the add a pvp server, i'll be interested again.
It's an entire country the size of Oblivion. Lack of?
You have an entire country.
There's also a TON of area just for pve...I personally just get turned off by that.
You know you can still find people PVEing in PVP areas right? As there will be plenty of PVE in PVP areas, you can still gank that guy just trying to get a quest done. Or get ganked while you're trying to quest...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by SirBalin For me it's the lack of pvp...looked at it..and I can't stand only having pvp in one area...regardless of size. If the add a pvp server, i'll be interested again.
It's an entire country the size of Oblivion. Lack of?
You have an entire country.
There's also a TON of area just for pve...I personally just get turned off by that.
You know you can still find people PVEing in PVP areas right? As there will be plenty of PVE in PVP areas, you can still gank that guy just trying to get a quest done. Or get ganked while you're trying to quest...
Exactly. And you go there deliberately so no surpprises when you don't feel like PvPing.
I get a kick out of all these random "open world PVP or nothing" posts. Last I looked, Darkfall Unholy Wars had, at best, 20K people in the west playing it. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the PVP everywhere sandbox system. It's even more niche now than it used to be. And for good reason: it has always been abused by asshats and weanies.
OWPVP is a great example of how MMO systems that sound good in theory - and it is a good system theoretically because of the greater realism factor - can fail hard when implemented. Experienced MMO developers spend a lot of time these days programming grief and exploit prevention. History tells us that in MMOs, if it can be exploited or griefed, you can bet your ass that it will be.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
Thats not what you said..
If 8 full PvP zones dont sattisfie you, and being able to fully level trough PvP from level 10 on..... Then why are you still on this website? Everyoen knows that an RPG game is about story and playing together with your friends... And not about ganking.
Hell there is 1/4 th of this world designated to PvP, and you can wven PvE in those PvP zones, thats more the enough to sattisfy most everyones soul. I think some people are spreading misinformation on this site with nothing but the purpose to harm games...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
They first came and said this will be a pvp game. then it changed to a pve game and now its a console game...Im not sure where they gone head further down the road, but this just seems to turn out wrong. The other problem I have with this game is the release date. Its coming out 2014... There's going to be a lot of good games comming out at 2014. Shroud of the Avatar, Star Citizen and sure some I forgot. So TESO really has to shine if I should spend some cash on it.
I agree with what this person wrote regarding hype. Also, there are a lot of immature folks here that pick just one game they like, and then go into the hype ratings of other competing games and put a 1 to hopefully boost the hype of the game they support. Its like people arn't capable of liking more than one game. I have 4 games I am looking forward to, some more than others and they are hyped like that. I wouldn't take the hype meter seriously as it doesn't necessarily reflect the millions of others outside of these forums many of which never heard of this site.
I have hyped games before and been wrong. I overhyped TOR and that game didn't meet my expectation and I still am stuck at level 48 because I just don't feel like ever logging in lol. ESO may fail, but to me it seems to be holding true to the things I would expect for an ESO online game and I'm excited about it. No hype meter or bashing from sandbox fans, EQ Next Fans, Wild Star Fans, or Final Fantasy Fans is going to change that. 3 of the 4 of those games Im actually looking forward to.
The only thing I think is retarded is this whole is it an MMO or Mutiplayer. Who cares? Its giving what most ESO fans wanted, the ability to play with others without using a failed multiplayer mod that was horrible. Also, since when does have a couple of hundred on the screen for PVP and a 1000 in a zone not massive? Now I agree we need to see more of this gameplay in person, we will, but that is their minimum target and I have no reason not to trust them.
There Is Always Hope!
One word >>Zenimax.Only reason i will pay attention at all is they have singed on board ID games,John Carmack but i am not sure if he has any impact on this game what so ever.
I have player Elder Scroll games and to be honest,they are just ho hum to me,i never feel compelled to finish any of them.I am not so sure they even know how to create a group immersive feeling,nobody else has either,they are all making individual solo type games with added internet.
I will NEED to see a playable trial of this game before i will buy .
Also i should make note that MARKETING is huge in this industry,Blizzard,SOE are the big spenders in that department,Zenimax remains sort of quiet and hidden.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It still is. The only thing that has changed is the current target for their hype - TES players who may or may not play MMOs.
Nothing has changed with the development plans for AvA in Cyrodiil except their current desire to keep that information off center stage.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Zenimax is as much part from Bethesda as Bethesda itselves... Its just names, its a new development team created for this game partly comming from other elder scrolls games and partly comming from other top MMOs.
Both Zenimax and Bethesda where started by the same man... But thats not the point, you should not judge a company, but you should judge a development team
and in the MMO buiseness a good game does not need marketing at all to sell. The. Money is better spend on development
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Well.................. Warcraft fans weren't bothered by the fact WoW was a MMO, were they?
That's bad marketing communication from Zenimax, they are creating unecessary confusion.
As for the Sandbox comment, I ll try to explain what I mean.
Take 2 of the major single player games in the market, both similar games, both RPGs, both good in their own way, but at the same time so different
Take Bioware Mass Effect RPG, it is a linear game.
Take Bethesda Skyrim RPG, it is a NON linear game, it allows freedom, which to me it's another term for Sandbox
Now translate them into a MMO
Bioware made SWTOR which is a linear MMO (they've been faithful to their philosophy)
Bethesda is making ESO, which should be NON linear, with lots of freedom (hence a Sandbox) like in the single player game.
In the second case Bethesda is not following the same principle that followed the whole TES series, which was based on NON linearity, and total freedom.
That's why people like me are not happy with Bethesda (Zenimax).
Skyrim with the same gameplay of Mass Effect, is not Skyrim is it?
So why they making ESO with the same gameplay of SWTOR?...........see where I am getting at?
How many times do they have to post that this is not Skyrim online. There are limitations to what one can do for a single player game versus online an appeal to both crowds. Its nearly impossible. SWTOR was a complete corridor, even within the zones themselves. I think exploration is more important than complete Skyrim freedom and as long as you don't feel like you are in a very narrow corridor like TOR, that you can't progress without doing the exact same activities as everyone else, and that the zones themselves are large enough to allow for some type of freedom knowing the leveled limitations I think most will be happy. For me it has to feel more open than WOW, but not so much as Vanguard..a happy medium..for me to be happy. If it doesn't have that from a PVE perspective, I won't make it to the end.
There Is Always Hope!
Can you please explain to me where TESO is less linear then Skyrim?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
ESO didnt drop off the radar - it got good coverage last weekend
EQN is the new kid on the block but i doubt people that like ESO changed camps
EQ2 fan sites
I'll let him answer for himself, but I think one reason is that Skyrim NPCs level generally speaking to your level where ESO has NPCs of a static level in certain areas. That by itself prevents the ability to explore anywhere depending on your level. To be honest, I actually prefer the latter as I don't like everything leveling with you, though Skyrim did a much better job of this than Oblivion where I had to heavily mod that game.
There Is Always Hope!
If as I suspect ESO comes out before EQN I'll be playing it but I do not see anything to lead me to believe its anything more then a http://www.keenandgraev.com/2011/03/01/the-3-month-er and on top of that it doesn't appear to play like an Elder Scrolls game with an open world. Looks far too linear for an Elder Scrolls game.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Me: Double Facepalm.
How do you feel it is far too linear? What have you seen that we haven't? Would you prefer that NPCs don't have levels like Oblvion and rats level with you?
There Is Always Hope!
Actually yea, that would be a start.
I do not talk much about TESO, or comment much at all really, but I will come out and say I love Skyrim, I played...too much skyrim. I like Fallout as well. I liked the previous titles in both those lines as well. So when they slapped this name on this product it does set up some expectations and hopes that do not really seem to be being met, to me.
Some of it has really made me think about what I like about Skyrim and Fallout, and yes I realize there are MMO limitations but it is one thing to acknowledge that and another to completely give up because of it. Skyrim and Fallout both have a great and majestic sense of exploration beyond the less than consistent story line. After viewing these games through a new lens I think the reasons I like skyrim, and am hesistant about TESO are
Exploration- Again a key to these games, Something that gets curb stomped right down when you start putting in traditional MMO levels on creatures, At level 10 in skyrim I can go from one corner of the map to the other on a horse and it is great to just stumble across some new dungeon and go in it. Levels and MMO's make this impossible, always have, try walking through the outlands as a level 10 warrior in WoW, you can't the monsters kill you in 5 seconds, so you have to go grind up to the point that you can explore.
The thing is in Skyrim that content is such as challanging and rewarding at level 40 as it is at 10 but it also works the other way in an MMO if you go back to a starting area to explore you just one shot everything and it feels silly not rewarding, the equipment is junk and the mobs are no fun.
Mods- Obviously you can not have mods in an MMO, or not like they do in Skyrim, but I love Mods, Bethesda makes neat things but I never play a game of Skyrim now without amidian's armor retextures, certain tweaks, and maybe some of the awesome looking weapon mods and housing mods. It was actually EQnext's landmarks that made this one come on like a light bulb to me, I do not think a Bethesda game without mods would be as fun (this is why I do not play it on a console)
Epicishness- Lets face it in Oblivion or Skyrim you are THE hero, you are the motha fing Dragon Born with capital letters, you lead the mighty warriors guild, and the mages, and the thieves guild, and you just killed the emperor himself because you are the voice of the night mother. Obviously you can choose to be none of these things but in an MMO obviously can be none of these things even if you wanted to. I think the epic storyline of these games has to be sacrificed for MMO, any MMO even if it was more sandbox than themepark can not survive with one person being the head of every organization.
What I would like is a Dark Age of Camelot style game again, that is probably the best I would hope for, because while it wouldn't be skyrim DAOC is another classic game I would love to see in a modern MMO. I might play that TESO, but it seems the more info they release the less it seems to be resembling that. A DAOC style MMO with Elder Scrolls deep lore as a backdrop could be pretty darn cool, linear or not.
Basically this, thanks.
And in order to do that, ESO should have an Horizontal progression, like EQN for example.
And usually an Horizontal progression goes well with the Sandbox concept.
That's one of the reason I feel ESO should be a Sandbox game.
Thanks for the intelligent response. I can't comment on Dark Age of Camelot because that is one of the few games I never played. I started with WOW in beta so that was before my MMO time as I focused back then on console games before I even realized there were online PC games lol.
I agree with you about all the things that make Skyrim so much fun. However, I disagree that the epic feeling at level 40 is the same at level 10. I am currently level 50 in Skyrim, part of all the guilds, finished at level 20-30 the main story line and all major side quests, I am currently just making sure I clear every possible dungeon, and then move on two the two expansions within the next couple of weeks. Since level 30, I feel completely overpowered, I haven't died once in at least 25 levels, my companion only died once (around level 20) so I got another, and my conjuration spells along with my companion are so strong that much of the time if I choose I could stand around and do nothing, so sometimes I force myself to play with a bow instead, either by conjuring one or by creating a new one...but I feel like the epicness of the game deteriorates once you complete the main quest and the major side ones that sort of branch from that. In fact I have so much money that I don't even know what to spend it on because almost nothing I find is equavelent to what I already have despite skills points in greater treasure finding percentages. From the way that ESO is set up, that feeling of epicness will hopefully continue through end level.
I can't even count how many people hated the leveling with you aspect of Oblivion which is why complete overhaul mods were developed to counter that. Regardless, this is more of a preference thing and I understand that others who prefer leveling with the creatures will prefer the single play model. Like I said in previous posts, Skyrim handled it better to me than Oblivion by at least keeping certain creatures low level.
Finally, there will be UI mods allowed in ESO, just not all of the ones we are used to seeing in the single player games for obvious reasons.
To be honest, except for the graphics downgrade from SKyrim (which hopefully by release wont be much), I may find that I like ESO more than Skyrim even though I love Skyrim.
There Is Always Hope!
yeah this game is going to be successful from a business standpoint, but a lot of mmo purists that reside on these forums will absolutely hate it.
me? i will be playing it for sure, it actually looks like an ES game and has the more realistic art style that i like, unlike EQN
Things like this are a trade off, personally i just love the fact that levels give me a sense of progression, finding mobs that are to strong for me, continue to work hard, training new skills and then return is great.. If thats what you guys call a linear game.. Thats really stupid... Linear to me would mean a single path to level, being forced to follow the same path with every chatacter. If there would be a single zone for every level range, that would be linear, if i would have options to choose from several zones and levels while leveling, then it would not be linear. We dont know yet if this will be the case in TESO, dont we?
toush i dearly hope the game has downleveling in it, so that lower level zones keep some challenge to it instead of becomming one shotted. This was an awesome feature in GW 2 and truely something every mmo should copy. Either that or the EQ2 system, but i prefer the GW2 solution.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Be the change you want to see in the world.
- Mahatma Gandhi
Someone, give this man a cookie
For me it was:
- Lack of housing (housing is big thing for me)
- Theme park MMO (or at least it looks like it is going to be another quest run...)
I still might look after it is released because:
- It is Elder Scrolls game
- Character customization looks great
- Doesn't seem to have holy trinity
If I am going to get - then I am going to get long after release, When initial server problems are fixed and I can actually read some real reviews - instead of paid ads that look like reviews.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
You know you can still find people PVEing in PVP areas right? As there will be plenty of PVE in PVP areas, you can still gank that guy just trying to get a quest done. Or get ganked while you're trying to quest...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Exactly. And you go there deliberately so no surpprises when you don't feel like PvPing.
I get a kick out of all these random "open world PVP or nothing" posts. Last I looked, Darkfall Unholy Wars had, at best, 20K people in the west playing it. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the PVP everywhere sandbox system. It's even more niche now than it used to be. And for good reason: it has always been abused by asshats and weanies.
OWPVP is a great example of how MMO systems that sound good in theory - and it is a good system theoretically because of the greater realism factor - can fail hard when implemented. Experienced MMO developers spend a lot of time these days programming grief and exploit prevention. History tells us that in MMOs, if it can be exploited or griefed, you can bet your ass that it will be.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED