i think i agree with the basic theme from other posters. the game is just not going in a direction that resembles TES. we all wanted Oblivion or Skyrim online and instead it appears we are getting a typical contemporary mmo with a Tamriel skin.
the only saving grace that it might have in the future is its pvp. but that's still very unclear to many of us.
I agree with you but I will have to say that they are making a good effort to try and make it seem more like TES. For me personally aligning races into a faction takes away from the core concept of TES (I respect that other people feel differently). I would've loved to just create a character and choose my alignment through playing like in the previous games.
And HOW exactly are they making a good effort to make it seem more like TES? As you said, race is faction locked. faction lands are behind invisible walls, everyone is funneled into a central PvP zone to fight over to crown Legolazzz the player emperor, there are no mods, nor is there a way to create anything in game with something like a "foundry" for in game player creation. You are class locked, sure you can use any weapon but your skills are based on the weapon you have equipped...IE, as a mage no you cannot just go ahead and cast any spell, your magic class will have its base spells and the rest depend on your weapon equipped. Its an illusion of being classless, yet its still your character having a class dependent on weapon and thus giving you a role. That basically is what they are doing, creating an illusion of freedom while still trapping you in old outdated game design.
i don't see how mods would even work with an mmorpg and server side data storage and retrieval. so for me that was off the table the moment i thought a TES mmo would be great. however, the 'foundry' question is a good one, instead of actual mods changing the whole game, why wasn't there an adaptation of the foundry or even something similar from EQ2 which has both dungeon design and item design now available. this is especially pertinent because for those who have played TES for any length of time know how fundamental the modding community is to the whole TES experience.
the rest of what jtcgs has posted is entirely possible and relevant. by creating an illusory classless system, tying race to faction, and predefined roles they have chucked one of the prime experiences of TES out the window: player creativity and choice. its not like skill based systems have never been done before in an mmo. its not like they haven't had a multimillion dollar dev team working on this game for a while. again, all this is entirely within the purview of an mmo these days.
without that i can't see how anyone can consider this more than a traditional mmo with a Tamriel skin.
now, dont misunderstand me, i get that there are some fans out there who are just going to be delighted with that. and that's fine. but let's not go into this game with our eyes shut as to what is really being offered as a player TES experience and what is not being offered.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
i think i agree with the basic theme from other posters. the game is just not going in a direction that resembles TES. we all wanted Oblivion or Skyrim online and instead it appears we are getting a typical contemporary mmo with a Tamriel skin.
the only saving grace that it might have in the future is its pvp. but that's still very unclear to many of us.
I agree with you but I will have to say that they are making a good effort to try and make it seem more like TES. For me personally aligning races into a faction takes away from the core concept of TES (I respect that other people feel differently). I would've loved to just create a character and choose my alignment through playing like in the previous games.
And HOW exactly are they making a good effort to make it seem more like TES? As you said, race is faction locked. faction lands are behind invisible walls, everyone is funneled into a central PvP zone to fight over to crown Legolazzz the player emperor, there are no mods, nor is there a way to create anything in game with something like a "foundry" for in game player creation. You are class locked, sure you can use any weapon but your skills are based on the weapon you have equipped...IE, as a mage no you cannot just go ahead and cast any spell, your magic class will have its base spells and the rest depend on your weapon equipped. Its an illusion of being classless, yet its still your character having a class dependent on weapon and thus giving you a role. That basically is what they are doing, creating an illusion of freedom while still trapping you in old outdated game design.
i don't see how mods would even work with an mmorpg and server side data storage and retrieval. so for me that was off the table the moment i thought a TES mmo would be great. however, the 'foundry' question is a good one, instead of actual mods changing the whole game, why wasn't there an adaptation of the foundry or even something similar from EQ2 which has both dungeon design and item design now available. this is especially pertinent because for those who have played TES for any length of time know how fundamental the modding community is to the whole TES experience.
the rest of what jtcgs has posted is entirely possible and relevant. by creating an illusory classless system, tying race to faction, and predefined roles they have chucked one of the prime experiences of TES out the window: player creativity and choice. its not like skill based systems have never been done before in an mmo. its not like they haven't had a multimillion dollar dev team working on this game for a while. again, all this is entirely within the purview of an mmo these days.
without that i can't see how anyone can consider this more than a traditional mmo with a Tamriel skin.
now, dont misunderstand me, i get that there are some fans out there who are just going to be delighted with that. and that's fine. but let's not go into this game with our eyes shut as to what is really being offered as a player TES experience and what is not being offered.
I can agree with you for most of it, a full skilltree system withouth any hard classes would have been so much better... And for people that cant handle the freedom, they could have added advancement paths, like the prefered builds in rift.. Best of both worlds.
and i even agree with you that it would have been much much better to have dozens of factions battling it out in PvP would have been much much better then the current 3 factions, espescially if playeer choices where used to build player allegiances to factions..
but not having these options does not mean it will be a bad game, personally i think its good that the game is under many peoples radar, as it might end up as a fresh and surprising game this way.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
And HOW exactly are they making a good effort to make it seem more like TES? As you said, race is faction locked. faction lands are behind invisible walls, everyone is funneled into a central PvP zone to fight over to crown Legolazzz the player emperor, there are no mods, nor is there a way to create anything in game with something like a "foundry" for in game player creation. You are class locked, sure you can use any weapon but your skills are based on the weapon you have equipped...IE, as a mage no you cannot just go ahead and cast any spell, your magic class will have its base spells and the rest depend on your weapon equipped. Its an illusion of being classless, yet its still your character having a class dependent on weapon and thus giving you a role. That basically is what they are doing, creating an illusion of freedom while still trapping you in old outdated game design.
i don't see how mods would even work with an mmorpg and server side data storage and retrieval. so for me that was off the table the moment i thought a TES mmo would be great. however, the 'foundry' question is a good one, instead of actual mods changing the whole game, why wasn't there an adaptation of the foundry or even something similar from EQ2 which has both dungeon design and item design now available. this is especially pertinent because for those who have played TES for any length of time know how fundamental the modding community is to the whole TES experience.
Well that is the point isn't it.
1. There are two kinds of mods. benign mods that fall into the UI/radar/information categories. Something that HAS been allowed in MMOs before and is mind boggling dumb for a game not to allow them. And then there are altering mods ala houses/buildings/armor/weapons/dungeons/graphics which leads to...
2. Foundry style modding via company provided tools ala EQ Landmark, Shroud of the Avatar or via an in game tool like in City of Heroes and Neverwinter. It is not a new idea, the fact they don't have it shows they had no intentions or no ability at all in actually making a TES MMO...
Such things never entered the minds of the game makers because they are not making a TES MMO for TES players, they want to re-create their 13 year old game and are stuck in a very old small box. So these thoughts never entered the equation. Developers such as these are trapped in the past, a past that doesn't stack up to modern games (and even worse compared to those just entering alpha in December) and have no place using the TES name other than to use its popularity in an attempt to make some quick cash...which makes even less sense when you think about how a game that was actually made for TES players has a much better chance of being a continual cash cow if it wasn't being made with such limitations knowing full well they CAN be done in an MMO.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
1. There are two kinds of mods. benign mods that fall into the UI/radar/information categories. Something that HAS been allowed in MMOs before and is mind boggling dumb for a game not to allow them. And then there are altering mods ala houses/buildings/armor/weapons/dungeons/graphics which leads to...
2. Foundry style modding via company provided tools ala EQ Landmark, Shroud of the Avatar or via an in game tool like in City of Heroes and Neverwinter. It is not a new idea, the fact they don't have it shows they had no intentions or no ability at all in actually making a TES MMO...
Such things never entered the minds of the game makers because they are not making a TES MMO for TES players, they want to re-create their 13 year old game and are stuck in a very old small box. So these thoughts never entered the equation. Developers such as these are trapped in the past, a past that doesn't stack up to modern games (and even worse compared to those just entering alpha in December) and have no place using the TES name other than to use its popularity in an attempt to make some quick cash...which makes even less sense when you think about how a game that was actually made for TES players has a much better chance of being a continual cash cow if it wasn't being made with such limitations knowing full well they CAN be done in an MMO.
Your posts always come of as disingenuous to me, the problem doesn't seem to be that the game isn't TES enough (at least judging by your ESO posting history), you just seem to have a hatred for anything DAOC related, your posts about CU were no different.
What's odd to me is your defense of GW2, considering they also left behind their original game's design, for a more DAOC like structure.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
With all the new invites i think the hype train just might start again.
Originally posted by laokoko "if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
1. There are two kinds of mods. benign mods that fall into the UI/radar/information categories. Something that HAS been allowed in MMOs before and is mind boggling dumb for a game not to allow them. And then there are altering mods ala houses/buildings/armor/weapons/dungeons/graphics which leads to...
2. Foundry style modding via company provided tools ala EQ Landmark, Shroud of the Avatar or via an in game tool like in City of Heroes and Neverwinter. It is not a new idea, the fact they don't have it shows they had no intentions or no ability at all in actually making a TES MMO...
Such things never entered the minds of the game makers because they are not making a TES MMO for TES players, they want to re-create their 13 year old game and are stuck in a very old small box. So these thoughts never entered the equation. Developers such as these are trapped in the past, a past that doesn't stack up to modern games (and even worse compared to those just entering alpha in December) and have no place using the TES name other than to use its popularity in an attempt to make some quick cash...which makes even less sense when you think about how a game that was actually made for TES players has a much better chance of being a continual cash cow if it wasn't being made with such limitations knowing full well they CAN be done in an MMO.
Your posts always come of as disingenuous to me, the problem doesn't seem to be that the game isn't TES enough (at least judging by your ESO posting history), you just seem to have a hatred for anything DAOC related, your posts about CU were no different.
What's odd to me is your defense of GW2, considering they also left behind their original game's design, for a more DAOC like structure.
Yes, clearly I am not at all pointing out in my posts about what TES is and is not. I am just going on anti-DaoC rants...oh wait, you are a DaoC fanboy, you see what you want...which is why you don't attack the message, just the messenger.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by strawhat0981 With all the new invites i think the hype train just might start again.
I hope the game is good enough fore everyone to stick to the NDA, which means only the dissapointed few will spam forums with how the game does not live up to their expectations... While 99% of testers sticks to the NDA and is happy.
to much hype will kill you, thus it will be better to keepitunder the radar and surprise everyone at release.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
i don't see how mods would even work with an mmorpg and server side data storage and retrieval. so for me that was off the table the moment i thought a TES mmo would be great. however, the 'foundry' question is a good one, instead of actual mods changing the whole game, why wasn't there an adaptation of the foundry or even something similar from EQ2 which has both dungeon design and item design now available. this is especially pertinent because for those who have played TES for any length of time know how fundamental the modding community is to the whole TES experience.
the rest of what jtcgs has posted is entirely possible and relevant. by creating an illusory classless system, tying race to faction, and predefined roles they have chucked one of the prime experiences of TES out the window: player creativity and choice. its not like skill based systems have never been done before in an mmo. its not like they haven't had a multimillion dollar dev team working on this game for a while. again, all this is entirely within the purview of an mmo these days.
without that i can't see how anyone can consider this more than a traditional mmo with a Tamriel skin.
now, dont misunderstand me, i get that there are some fans out there who are just going to be delighted with that. and that's fine. but let's not go into this game with our eyes shut as to what is really being offered as a player TES experience and what is not being offered.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
I can agree with you for most of it, a full skilltree system withouth any hard classes would have been so much better... And for people that cant handle the freedom, they could have added advancement paths, like the prefered builds in rift.. Best of both worlds.
and i even agree with you that it would have been much much better to have dozens of factions battling it out in PvP would have been much much better then the current 3 factions, espescially if playeer choices where used to build player allegiances to factions..
but not having these options does not mean it will be a bad game, personally i think its good that the game is under many peoples radar, as it might end up as a fresh and surprising game this way.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Well that is the point isn't it.
1. There are two kinds of mods. benign mods that fall into the UI/radar/information categories. Something that HAS been allowed in MMOs before and is mind boggling dumb for a game not to allow them. And then there are altering mods ala houses/buildings/armor/weapons/dungeons/graphics which leads to...
2. Foundry style modding via company provided tools ala EQ Landmark, Shroud of the Avatar or via an in game tool like in City of Heroes and Neverwinter. It is not a new idea, the fact they don't have it shows they had no intentions or no ability at all in actually making a TES MMO...
Such things never entered the minds of the game makers because they are not making a TES MMO for TES players, they want to re-create their 13 year old game and are stuck in a very old small box. So these thoughts never entered the equation. Developers such as these are trapped in the past, a past that doesn't stack up to modern games (and even worse compared to those just entering alpha in December) and have no place using the TES name other than to use its popularity in an attempt to make some quick cash...which makes even less sense when you think about how a game that was actually made for TES players has a much better chance of being a continual cash cow if it wasn't being made with such limitations knowing full well they CAN be done in an MMO.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Your posts always come of as disingenuous to me, the problem doesn't seem to be that the game isn't TES enough (at least judging by your ESO posting history), you just seem to have a hatred for anything DAOC related, your posts about CU were no different.
What's odd to me is your defense of GW2, considering they also left behind their original game's design, for a more DAOC like structure.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by laokoko
"if you want to be a game designer, you should sell your house and fund your game. Since if you won't even fund your own game, no one will".
Yes, clearly I am not at all pointing out in my posts about what TES is and is not. I am just going on anti-DaoC rants...oh wait, you are a DaoC fanboy, you see what you want...which is why you don't attack the message, just the messenger.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I hope the game is good enough fore everyone to stick to the NDA, which means only the dissapointed few will spam forums with how the game does not live up to their expectations... While 99% of testers sticks to the NDA and is happy.
to much hype will kill you, thus it will be better to keepitunder the radar and surprise everyone at release.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)