Take WoW for example, they create a new raid instance for PvEers every 4 months or so? Do you know what PvPers get every four months? The ladders reset, now tell me which takes more resources: creating an entirely new instance with new bosses/encounters or pressing a button and resetting the PvP rankings?
Pfft. MoP is a PvPer's paradise. What's Timeless Isle? Hello, Kitty land? No, it's a heavy contested area designed for PvP (every damn PvP centric zone has riding mounts). Then they gave everyone resilience in hopes to increase even more PvP (and nerfed to the ground PvP Power, making those gems and enchants worthless). And now, PvErs won't get another raid, but PvPers will have Season 15 gear. And to think of starting it via oQueue again? NO! The wintrading carrieds fronted by Warrior/Priest FoTM comps can have it ALL to themselves.
A) It's only heavily contested if you choose to play on a PvP server.
TI is amazing for PvEers, not necessarily because the content is awesome but because it means a pivot away from the stale dailies grind and you might actually see more interesting open world content in the future rather than the relentless and ungodly boring daily grind Blizzard has built so much of it's non raid PvE content around since BC.
C) I'm talking about dev time, what does giving everyone resilience have to do with that? The same intern that resets the PvP ladders can do that in five minutes after he finishes getting the people working on the new raid content coffee.
A. No. There's things called oQueue and OpenRaid and cross-realming that makes even the lowest population server a prime target for PvP. Good god, on Shandris teams would show up waiting for a boss to hunt for Bloody coins...and still do.
B. PvErs look at Timeless for ilvl 535 gear and on grinding Emperor rep and ilvl 551 gear on the Celestrials, not for it's PvP. Once they have both, there's no need to return.
C. Blizzard said this about PvP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or8q02BQFLY -- WoW is primarily a PvE game. PvP was tacked into the game afterwards, and why PvP has been 2 seasons behind PvE tier gear (PvP didn't exist at launch).
PvP should just be on PvP servers, or in instances, not in the world itself on PvE realms. I specifically chose Shandris because it's PvE, not because I wanted to turn WoW into a MMORPG version of Battlefield. For that I play Battlefield.
A. I don't know what to tell you here, if you're angry that there are people running around flagged on your PvE server that can't attack you maybe you need to try and relax more? If you're having an issue with accidently getting flagged might want to get an addon that makes it easier to distinguish nameplates.
B. Uhm, yeah, PvEers finish content, I'm not sure what you were expecting there. Would you have rather had more mindless dailies? There is no shortage of them elsewhere if you want to grind them. Also, theres always alts, don't know many WoW players that only play one character.
C. So... something that is tacked on at the end is now ruining your PvE experience because a small fraction of resources is being diverted to it rather than having 100% of resources going to PvE? Oh and you can't have PvE skills that would make PvP stupidly broken. So basically you're upset that blizzard won't completely ruin PvP so PvE can have a few addition bells and whistle?
Take WoW for example, they create a new raid instance for PvEers every 4 months or so? Do you know what PvPers get every four months? The ladders reset, now tell me which takes more resources: creating an entirely new instance with new bosses/encounters or pressing a button and resetting the PvP rankings?
Pfft. MoP is a PvPer's paradise. What's Timeless Isle? Hello, Kitty land? No, it's a heavy contested area designed for PvP (every damn PvP centric zone has riding mounts). Then they gave everyone resilience in hopes to increase even more PvP (and nerfed to the ground PvP Power, making those gems and enchants worthless). And now, PvErs won't get another raid, but PvPers will have Season 15 gear. And to think of starting it via oQueue again? NO! The wintrading carrieds fronted by Warrior/Priest FoTM comps can have it ALL to themselves.
A) It's only heavily contested if you choose to play on a PvP server.
TI is amazing for PvEers, not necessarily because the content is awesome but because it means a pivot away from the stale dailies grind and you might actually see more interesting open world content in the future rather than the relentless and ungodly boring daily grind Blizzard has built so much of it's non raid PvE content around since BC.
C) I'm talking about dev time, what does giving everyone resilience have to do with that? The same intern that resets the PvP ladders can do that in five minutes after he finishes getting the people working on the new raid content coffee.
A. No. There's things called oQueue and OpenRaid and cross-realming that makes even the lowest population server a prime target for PvP. Good god, on Shandris teams would show up waiting for a boss to hunt for Bloody coins...and still do.
B. PvErs look at Timeless for ilvl 535 gear and on grinding Emperor rep and ilvl 551 gear on the Celestrials, not for it's PvP. Once they have both, there's no need to return.
C. Blizzard said this about PvP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or8q02BQFLY -- WoW is primarily a PvE game. PvP was tacked into the game afterwards, and why PvP has been 2 seasons behind PvE tier gear (PvP didn't exist at launch).
PvP should just be on PvP servers, or in instances, not in the world itself on PvE realms. I specifically chose Shandris because it's PvE, not because I wanted to turn WoW into a MMORPG version of Battlefield. For that I play Battlefield.
A. I don't know what to tell you here, if you're angry that there are people running around flagged on your PvE server that can't attack you maybe you need to try and relax more? If you're having an issue with accidently getting flagged might want to get an addon that makes it easier to distinguish nameplates.
B. Uhm, yeah, PvEers finish content, I'm not sure what you were expecting there. Would you have rather had more mindless dailies? There is no shortage of them elsewhere if you want to grind them. Also, theres always alts, don't know many WoW players that only play one character.
C. So... something that is tacked on at the end is now ruining your PvE experience because a small fraction of resources is being diverted to it rather than having 100% of resources going to PvE? Oh and you can't have PvE skills that would make PvP stupidly broken. So basically you're upset that blizzard won't completely ruin PvP so PvE can have a few addition bells and whistle?
A. They shouldn't even be there in the first place... it's a PVE server. They should stick to their PvP realms or goto them. Not a leveling realm that more interested in socializing than PvP.
B. I don't have to worry about dailies or that stuff, as I find my own entertainment off the beaten path...it's called adventuring (or shooting terabytes of videos!).
C. I'm on a PvE realm. PvE realm's focus is...PvE. Why would I want world PvP on a PvE realm? That's what Arenas/BGs/RBGs are for...in instances. NOT interfering with PvE content.
Take WoW for example, they create a new raid instance for PvEers every 4 months or so? Do you know what PvPers get every four months? The ladders reset, now tell me which takes more resources: creating an entirely new instance with new bosses/encounters or pressing a button and resetting the PvP rankings?
Pfft. MoP is a PvPer's paradise. What's Timeless Isle? Hello, Kitty land? No, it's a heavy contested area designed for PvP (every damn PvP centric zone has riding mounts). Then they gave everyone resilience in hopes to increase even more PvP (and nerfed to the ground PvP Power, making those gems and enchants worthless). And now, PvErs won't get another raid, but PvPers will have Season 15 gear. And to think of starting it via oQueue again? NO! The wintrading carrieds fronted by Warrior/Priest FoTM comps can have it ALL to themselves.
A) It's only heavily contested if you choose to play on a PvP server.
TI is amazing for PvEers, not necessarily because the content is awesome but because it means a pivot away from the stale dailies grind and you might actually see more interesting open world content in the future rather than the relentless and ungodly boring daily grind Blizzard has built so much of it's non raid PvE content around since BC.
C) I'm talking about dev time, what does giving everyone resilience have to do with that? The same intern that resets the PvP ladders can do that in five minutes after he finishes getting the people working on the new raid content coffee.
A. No. There's things called oQueue and OpenRaid and cross-realming that makes even the lowest population server a prime target for PvP. Good god, on Shandris teams would show up waiting for a boss to hunt for Bloody coins...and still do.
B. PvErs look at Timeless for ilvl 535 gear and on grinding Emperor rep and ilvl 551 gear on the Celestrials, not for it's PvP. Once they have both, there's no need to return.
C. Blizzard said this about PvP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or8q02BQFLY -- WoW is primarily a PvE game. PvP was tacked into the game afterwards, and why PvP has been 2 seasons behind PvE tier gear (PvP didn't exist at launch).
PvP should just be on PvP servers, or in instances, not in the world itself on PvE realms. I specifically chose Shandris because it's PvE, not because I wanted to turn WoW into a MMORPG version of Battlefield. For that I play Battlefield.
A. I don't know what to tell you here, if you're angry that there are people running around flagged on your PvE server that can't attack you maybe you need to try and relax more? If you're having an issue with accidently getting flagged might want to get an addon that makes it easier to distinguish nameplates.
B. Uhm, yeah, PvEers finish content, I'm not sure what you were expecting there. Would you have rather had more mindless dailies? There is no shortage of them elsewhere if you want to grind them. Also, theres always alts, don't know many WoW players that only play one character.
C. So... something that is tacked on at the end is now ruining your PvE experience because a small fraction of resources is being diverted to it rather than having 100% of resources going to PvE? Oh and you can't have PvE skills that would make PvP stupidly broken. So basically you're upset that blizzard won't completely ruin PvP so PvE can have a few addition bells and whistle?
A. They shouldn't even be there in the first place... it's a PVE server. They should stick to their PvP realms or goto them. Not a leveling realm that more interested in socializing than PvP.
B. I don't have to worry about dailies or that stuff, as I find my own entertainment off the beaten path...it's called adventuring (or shooting terabytes of videos!).
C. I'm on a PvE realm. PvE realm's focus is...PvE. Why would I want world PvP on a PvE realm? That's what Arenas/BGs/RBGs are for...in instances. NOT interfering with PvE content.
A. I agree that people going from PvP servers to PvE servers to try and get nubs or non-pvpers to accidently flag is BS, I'll grant you that, but if people on a PvE server who occasionally enjoy world PvP want the to have the option, that's what it's there for and I don't see why they should be punished because you don't like to see other people PvPing even if they can't harm or effect you. What if I reversed the statement and asked why anyone should be forced to encounter any PvE on a PvP server? It's a blatantly silly question.
B. People who can find their own fun do seem to get a lot more enjoyment out of mmos.
C. How are people participating in world PvP interfering with you PvE experience unless you're flagged for PvP?
Wow, I think we've gotten totally off the beaten path, I think all I wanted to say is that when you look at the balance I think mmos give more to PvEers than PvPers. Though you are correct that PvEers do experience some, fairly mild, impacts on a PvE ruleset world simply from having PvP in the game. But I think if anyone has room to complain it's PvPers.
Nearly all the theme park games out there are mainly pve games with crappy pvp added on that has no relevance on the pve players at all so I really have no idea what the OP is going on about.
Take WoW for example, they create a new raid instance for PvEers every 4 months or so? Do you know what PvPers get every four months? The ladders reset, now tell me which takes more resources: creating an entirely new instance with new bosses/encounters or pressing a button and resetting the PvP rankings?
Pfft. MoP is a PvPer's paradise. What's Timeless Isle? Hello, Kitty land? No, it's a heavy contested area designed for PvP (every damn PvP centric zone has riding mounts). Then they gave everyone resilience in hopes to increase even more PvP (and nerfed to the ground PvP Power, making those gems and enchants worthless). And now, PvErs won't get another raid, but PvPers will have Season 15 gear. And to think of starting it via oQueue again? NO! The wintrading carrieds fronted by Warrior/Priest FoTM comps can have it ALL to themselves.
A) It's only heavily contested if you choose to play on a PvP server.
TI is amazing for PvEers, not necessarily because the content is awesome but because it means a pivot away from the stale dailies grind and you might actually see more interesting open world content in the future rather than the relentless and ungodly boring daily grind Blizzard has built so much of it's non raid PvE content around since BC.
C) I'm talking about dev time, what does giving everyone resilience have to do with that? The same intern that resets the PvP ladders can do that in five minutes after he finishes getting the people working on the new raid content coffee.
A. No. There's things called oQueue and OpenRaid and cross-realming that makes even the lowest population server a prime target for PvP. Good god, on Shandris teams would show up waiting for a boss to hunt for Bloody coins...and still do.
B. PvErs look at Timeless for ilvl 535 gear and on grinding Emperor rep and ilvl 551 gear on the Celestrials, not for it's PvP. Once they have both, there's no need to return.
C. Blizzard said this about PvP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or8q02BQFLY -- WoW is primarily a PvE game. PvP was tacked into the game afterwards, and why PvP has been 2 seasons behind PvE tier gear (PvP didn't exist at launch).
PvP should just be on PvP servers, or in instances, not in the world itself on PvE realms. I specifically chose Shandris because it's PvE, not because I wanted to turn WoW into a MMORPG version of Battlefield. For that I play Battlefield.
A. I don't know what to tell you here, if you're angry that there are people running around flagged on your PvE server that can't attack you maybe you need to try and relax more? If you're having an issue with accidently getting flagged might want to get an addon that makes it easier to distinguish nameplates.
B. Uhm, yeah, PvEers finish content, I'm not sure what you were expecting there. Would you have rather had more mindless dailies? There is no shortage of them elsewhere if you want to grind them. Also, theres always alts, don't know many WoW players that only play one character.
C. So... something that is tacked on at the end is now ruining your PvE experience because a small fraction of resources is being diverted to it rather than having 100% of resources going to PvE? Oh and you can't have PvE skills that would make PvP stupidly broken. So basically you're upset that blizzard won't completely ruin PvP so PvE can have a few addition bells and whistle?
A. They shouldn't even be there in the first place... it's a PVE server. They should stick to their PvP realms or goto them. Not a leveling realm that more interested in socializing than PvP.
This seriously even happens?
Not that I'm surprised to hear of people take advantage of it; what surprises me is that it's possible at all. Especially in WoW; for all that I dislike about that game, I always thought of it as well-polished at least.
Having to balance pvp so it is all balanced instead of rock paper scissors does screw up pve. Instead of having unique abilities you instead all have the same abilities with different graphics and names.
Not that I'm surprised to hear of people take advantage of it; what surprises me is that it's possible at all. Especially in WoW; for all that I dislike about that game, I always thought of it as well-polished at least.
Timeless Isle is an effort from Blizzard to encourage PvP from PvE players. They did so with giving everyone even in PvE gear a whopping 70% resilience (which used to only come from PvP gear). Now heroic raiders could beat PvP geared players, there's only 10% of all WoW's population that plays heroic raids. So chances are the PvPer will not only have a gear advantage still, the devs laughed that it's really about getting more ganks.
Problem is PvE players on a PvE realm are there NOT to PvP. Blizzard changed the rules -- again -- and forcing PvP. We don't have a "no PvP" option or button even on PvE realms. So on a world boss one slight mistake, or just healing a group, players can get auto-flagged. The PvP players exploit this for easy kills.
We need an opt out on PvE realms. We're on PvE realms to NOT PvP in daily content. PvE realm players who want to PvP play Arenas/BGs/RBGs...do so in instances off the realm. World PvP should always be optional on PvE realms, not forced. Just like on PvP realms they're always flagged.
Not that I'm surprised to hear of people take advantage of it; what surprises me is that it's possible at all. Especially in WoW; for all that I dislike about that game, I always thought of it as well-polished at least.
Timeless Isle is an effort from Blizzard to encourage PvP from PvE players. They did so with giving everyone even in PvE gear a whopping 70% resilience (which used to only come from PvP gear). Now heroic raiders could beat PvP geared players, there's only 10% of all WoW's population that plays heroic raids. So chances are the PvPer will not only have a gear advantage still, the devs laughed that it's really about getting more ganks.
If it is truly as you descrbied, then they lied to you.
This is not a serious effort to "encourage PvP from PvE players," it's a method to ensure PvE players remain hostile towards the concept of PvP that they're trying to pass off as the opposite. That is the only reasonable explanation for how devs from the most commercially successful MMO to date could have possibly come up with such idiocy.
Wanted to pipe into a topic about servers (PvP and PvE) .. I always have problems with PvP minded people demanding PvE servers have PvP options through a flagging system.. In every game I've played that does this, it always seems to get abused.. Since this thread is about PvE focus, why not have servers that prohibit PvP of any kind, even voluntary.. NONE whatsoever, not even dueling..
And since we are on the topic of dedicated servers.. Why not have servers that are "Ultra" PvE with special options.. Lets take a look at WoW for example. Imagine servers on WoW having the ultra setting, and any Character created on those servers would acquire special spells and skills NOT available on any other server.. This would open up WoW old and new to a complete new game. Make a few changes on the mobs and npc's and everything changes.. OLD encounters become new ones.. Roles such as pulling, mezzing, rooting, kiting, charming and etc etc
What I"m saying is that once you have the "BASE" game done, you can make a variety of servers to tailor and adjust the base game in any direction you wish.. I would LOVE to see a heroic and hardcore WoW server.. These servers the mobs would be 300% stronger then the base game.. Don't plan on solo'ing many mobs here.. LOL I never understood why a company pushes or directs players to play ONE way or no way option.. If it was me.. I would have 10 more more server types available.
PvE Standard - pvp is optional here
PvE Heroic - all mobs are 300% stronger
PvE Role Play - worldwide chat is disabled and languages are required..
PvE Ultra - no pvp at all, New spells and skills available
PvE Ultra Heroic - same as above but all mobs are 300% stronger
PvP - play at your own risk
PvP Heroic - same as above but mobs are 300% stronger
Naturally there are most options people can tweak, but you get the idea..
There are many MMOs that are PVE centered and you will never see a second of PVP if you dont want to....Alot of games add it because why limit the customerbase to a smaller crowd?...Im not a fan of PVP in a PVE game either but msot of them you can live with it.
So the PvP crowd has won over every graphically beautiful mmorpg in existence. As a PvE only gamer I have absolutely no mmo for me. None. Nada. Zip. Nothing out there that looks good caters to a PvE minded player. PvP players have managed to get their loud way and stomp us PvE'rs off the map. No company will even attempt to make a PvE only mmorpg now. You crushed us, stomped on our carcass, and ran away laughing the victors. Ten years from now no one is going to remember what the initials P v E stood for.
Do what I did and put your money where your mouth is.. This is by far our best shot at an amazing pve experience!
Let us know when it's actually on the market. I don't KS anything, ever, for any reason. I don't care about promises, I don't care about hype, I care if the game is out there right this second that I can go and actually play.
The OP wants a game with a pve focus. You might not like KS but it's going to be the only way we get niche games like pantheon.. I look at it as voting with my dollars. Buying games that offer the same game play over and over is a much worse thing to do and is what got us in this bad situation. kS will end the era of jack of all trade, great at nothing mmos. I'd throw money at pantheon before I spent a cent on a game like ESO
PvEers are the most selfish mmo gamers out there. The second a pvp update comes out, they act like it's the end of the world. Do you not realize that of all the time spent in mmos by all players, most of it is PvE. Leveling, raiding, farming, etc.
Not only that, but PvEers don't even have to pvp and will complain to no end if they have to spend one second engaging another player. Meanwhile, PvPers not only are forced to PvE, in most games we have to endure hours and hours of boring PvE grinding to even get to the PvP.
Seriously PvEers. You don't have a leg to stand on in this argument. You're the rich kid complaining that the poor kid gets an extra sandwich.
Wanted to pipe into a topic about servers (PvP and PvE) .. I always have problems with PvP minded people demanding PvE servers have PvP options through a flagging system.. In every game I've played that does this, it always seems to get abused.. Since this thread is about PvE focus, why not have servers that prohibit PvP of any kind, even voluntary.. NONE whatsoever, not even dueling..
And since we are on the topic of dedicated servers.. Why not have servers that are "Ultra" PvE with special options.. Lets take a look at WoW for example. Imagine servers on WoW having the ultra setting, and any Character created on those servers would acquire special spells and skills NOT available on any other server.. This would open up WoW old and new to a complete new game. Make a few changes on the mobs and npc's and everything changes.. OLD encounters become new ones.. Roles such as pulling, mezzing, rooting, kiting, charming and etc etc
What I"m saying is that once you have the "BASE" game done, you can make a variety of servers to tailor and adjust the base game in any direction you wish.. I would LOVE to see a heroic and hardcore WoW server.. These servers the mobs would be 300% stronger then the base game.. Don't plan on solo'ing many mobs here.. LOL I never understood why a company pushes or directs players to play ONE way or no way option.. If it was me.. I would have 10 more more server types available.
PvE Standard - pvp is optional here
PvE Heroic - all mobs are 300% stronger
PvE Role Play - worldwide chat is disabled and languages are required..
PvE Ultra - no pvp at all, New spells and skills available
PvE Ultra Heroic - same as above but all mobs are 300% stronger
PvP - play at your own risk
PvP Heroic - same as above but mobs are 300% stronger
Naturally there are most options people can tweak, but you get the idea..
I wish publishers would do that, so players can have truly PvE and PvP realms.
Makes no sense to roll a toon on a PvE realm and we're getting world PvP on PvE content. It's blurring the lines, and making it a mockery to have game play specific realms that don't adhere to game play specific rules.
The OP wants a game with a pve focus. You might not like KS but it's going to be the only way we get niche games like pantheon.. I look at it as voting with my dollars. Buying games that offer the same game play over and over is a much worse thing to do and is what got us in this bad situation. kS will end the era of jack of all trade, great at nothing mmos. I'd throw money at pantheon before I spent a cent on a game like ESO
There are plenty of indie development, with or without KS.
Plus, i don't pay for wishful thinking. Heck, i don't usually pay for MMOs. However, if you want to KS, it is great. When the game is out, i will decide if i want to play.
Originally posted by Horusra Having to balance pvp so it is all balanced instead of rock paper scissors does screw up pve. Instead of having unique abilities you instead all have the same abilities with different graphics and names.
No, changing things based on PvP balance only screws up PvEers because they aren't able to meta game and adapt like PvPers. I'm sorry, but the most finely tuned characters with the most optimized setup is always going to PvP.
I've never met a good PvPer who had trouble with PvE. Games are full of good PvEers who are absolutely horrid at PvP.
PvEers are the most selfish mmo gamers out there. The second a pvp update comes out, they act like it's the end of the world.
Because what it does to games like WoW, with specific play style realms...
PvE
PvP
RP-PVE
RP-PVP
They're all separate because the play styles are different. RP is separate because most don't get into it, and it'll interfere with those used to MuDs and enforcing being "in character". It's further defined to RP-PvP, because RP-PvE players don't want to focus on PvE when tripping over daisies; and RP-PvP players want to BE Night Elves saving the race from traitors called Blood Elves!
And in WoW, the classes are NOT specific to PvE nor PvP. One change to benefit PvE raiders, can decimate PvP and vice versa.
PvEers are the most selfish mmo gamers out there. The second a pvp update comes out, they act like it's the end of the world.
Because what it does to games like WoW, with specific play style realms...
PvE
PvP
RP-PVE
RP-PVP
They're all separate because the play styles are different. RP is separate because most don't get into it, and it'll interfere with those used to MuDs and enforcing being "in character". It's further defined to RP-PvP, because RP-PvE players don't want to focus on PvE when tripping over daisies; and RP-PvP players want to BE Night Elves saving the race from traitors called Blood Elves!
And in WoW, the classes are NOT specific to PvE nor PvP. One change to benefit PvE raiders, can decimate PvP and vice versa.
PvE can always be artificially enhanced/nerfed with no backlash. The Lich King isn't going to cancel his sub if his Armor get's dropped by 3%. PvP balance has to be what a game with both is based on.
I highly doubt they're going to develop different mechanics, stats, etc. for each type of server. Doesn't make financial sense to put extra time and money into developing 2-4 versions of the same exact system.
So the PvP crowd has won over every graphically beautiful mmorpg in existence. As a PvE only gamer I have absolutely no mmo for me. None. Nada. Zip. Nothing out there that looks good caters to a PvE minded player. PvP players have managed to get their loud way and stomp us PvE'rs off the map. No company will even attempt to make a PvE only mmorpg now. You crushed us, stomped on our carcass, and ran away laughing the victors. Ten years from now no one is going to remember what the initials P v E stood for.
strange all MMOs I know have PVE-nly servers in their listing, except EVE Online.
1/10 for the troll
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
So the PvP crowd has won over every graphically beautiful mmorpg in existence. As a PvE only gamer I have absolutely no mmo for me. None. Nada. Zip. Nothing out there that looks good caters to a PvE minded player. PvP players have managed to get their loud way and stomp us PvE'rs off the map. No company will even attempt to make a PvE only mmorpg now. You crushed us, stomped on our carcass, and ran away laughing the victors. Ten years from now no one is going to remember what the initials P v E stood for.
strange all MMOs I know have PVE-nly servers in their listing, except EVE Online.
It's the reason why PvE players play the game, and why WotLK was the most popular WoW expansion -- PLENTY of EVERYTHING for PvErs to do...plenty!
And when Cata and MoP came with the PvP centric combat, we got this dead space...
Instead of this -- 25man raid for FTA achieves and mount...and no need to cross-realm!!!
How did you think we had 25man PvP raids IN WotLK? Yeah...
"Why nerf the boss? Just buff the players"
Negatives are a b-a-d thing, especially in entertainment.
WoW is the only real mainstream mmo. So I wouldn't use it as an example. PvPers know wow isn't a pvp game and therefore don't play it. I sure as hell don't. Plus all that evidence is anecdotal and therefore means nothing.
I believe PvP does have a large impact on the PvP content. Just look at the abilities available to classes today and then look at abilities in a game like Everquest or even WoW. There is a very limited amount of skills and most of them are made with PvP balance in mind. To an extent they are also made with solo PvE balance in mind. There just isn't much there that is interesting anymore. People don't seem to care though. They seem to be happy with a couple weak generic combat skills per class.
It's the reason why PvE players play the game, and why WotLK was the most popular WoW expansion -- PLENTY of EVERYTHING for PvErs to do...plenty!
And when Cata and MoP came with the PvP centric combat, we got this dead space...
Instead of this -- 25man raid for FTA achieves and mount...and no need to cross-realm!!!
How did you think we had 25man PvP raids IN WotLK? Yeah...
"Why nerf the boss? Just buff the players"
Negatives are a b-a-d thing, especially in entertainment.
WoW is the only real mainstream mmo. So I wouldn't use it as an example. PvPers know wow isn't a pvp game and therefore don't play it. I sure as hell don't. Plus all that evidence is anecdotal and therefore means nothing.
I have the evidence that lined up with the stock reports (notice the difference in the pictures above?), so I don't know why you claim it's "anecdotal", maybe because it doesn't support your view? My view is backed up quarterly.
Can't even PvP when there's not enough players to do group content. And it's funny that in WotLK we had no reason for "connected realms" nor cross-realming to even PvE AND PvP, when the game focused on PvE content.
Bottom photo is a PvP raid on a PvE realm, all possible because the game was focused on PvE and very popular in doing so ("Why nerf the boss? Just buff the players"), because the Lich King was a boss you wanted to kill...he was e-v-i-l.
A popular MMO doesn't discard 80% that plays. Blizzard is finding that out very harshly.
Comments
A. I don't know what to tell you here, if you're angry that there are people running around flagged on your PvE server that can't attack you maybe you need to try and relax more? If you're having an issue with accidently getting flagged might want to get an addon that makes it easier to distinguish nameplates.
B. Uhm, yeah, PvEers finish content, I'm not sure what you were expecting there. Would you have rather had more mindless dailies? There is no shortage of them elsewhere if you want to grind them. Also, theres always alts, don't know many WoW players that only play one character.
C. So... something that is tacked on at the end is now ruining your PvE experience because a small fraction of resources is being diverted to it rather than having 100% of resources going to PvE? Oh and you can't have PvE skills that would make PvP stupidly broken. So basically you're upset that blizzard won't completely ruin PvP so PvE can have a few addition bells and whistle?
A. They shouldn't even be there in the first place... it's a PVE server. They should stick to their PvP realms or goto them. Not a leveling realm that more interested in socializing than PvP.
B. I don't have to worry about dailies or that stuff, as I find my own entertainment off the beaten path...it's called adventuring (or shooting terabytes of videos!).
C. I'm on a PvE realm. PvE realm's focus is...PvE. Why would I want world PvP on a PvE realm? That's what Arenas/BGs/RBGs are for...in instances. NOT interfering with PvE content.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
A. I agree that people going from PvP servers to PvE servers to try and get nubs or non-pvpers to accidently flag is BS, I'll grant you that, but if people on a PvE server who occasionally enjoy world PvP want the to have the option, that's what it's there for and I don't see why they should be punished because you don't like to see other people PvPing even if they can't harm or effect you. What if I reversed the statement and asked why anyone should be forced to encounter any PvE on a PvP server? It's a blatantly silly question.
B. People who can find their own fun do seem to get a lot more enjoyment out of mmos.
C. How are people participating in world PvP interfering with you PvE experience unless you're flagged for PvP?
Wow, I think we've gotten totally off the beaten path, I think all I wanted to say is that when you look at the balance I think mmos give more to PvEers than PvPers. Though you are correct that PvEers do experience some, fairly mild, impacts on a PvE ruleset world simply from having PvP in the game. But I think if anyone has room to complain it's PvPers.
Nearly all the theme park games out there are mainly pve games with crappy pvp added on that has no relevance on the pve players at all so I really have no idea what the OP is going on about.
This seriously even happens?
Not that I'm surprised to hear of people take advantage of it; what surprises me is that it's possible at all. Especially in WoW; for all that I dislike about that game, I always thought of it as well-polished at least.
Timeless Isle is an effort from Blizzard to encourage PvP from PvE players. They did so with giving everyone even in PvE gear a whopping 70% resilience (which used to only come from PvP gear). Now heroic raiders could beat PvP geared players, there's only 10% of all WoW's population that plays heroic raids. So chances are the PvPer will not only have a gear advantage still, the devs laughed that it's really about getting more ganks.
Problem is PvE players on a PvE realm are there NOT to PvP. Blizzard changed the rules -- again -- and forcing PvP. We don't have a "no PvP" option or button even on PvE realms. So on a world boss one slight mistake, or just healing a group, players can get auto-flagged. The PvP players exploit this for easy kills.
We need an opt out on PvE realms. We're on PvE realms to NOT PvP in daily content. PvE realm players who want to PvP play Arenas/BGs/RBGs...do so in instances off the realm. World PvP should always be optional on PvE realms, not forced. Just like on PvP realms they're always flagged.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
If it is truly as you descrbied, then they lied to you.
This is not a serious effort to "encourage PvP from PvE players," it's a method to ensure PvE players remain hostile towards the concept of PvP that they're trying to pass off as the opposite. That is the only reasonable explanation for how devs from the most commercially successful MMO to date could have possibly come up with such idiocy.
Wanted to pipe into a topic about servers (PvP and PvE) .. I always have problems with PvP minded people demanding PvE servers have PvP options through a flagging system.. In every game I've played that does this, it always seems to get abused.. Since this thread is about PvE focus, why not have servers that prohibit PvP of any kind, even voluntary.. NONE whatsoever, not even dueling..
And since we are on the topic of dedicated servers.. Why not have servers that are "Ultra" PvE with special options.. Lets take a look at WoW for example. Imagine servers on WoW having the ultra setting, and any Character created on those servers would acquire special spells and skills NOT available on any other server.. This would open up WoW old and new to a complete new game. Make a few changes on the mobs and npc's and everything changes.. OLD encounters become new ones.. Roles such as pulling, mezzing, rooting, kiting, charming and etc etc
What I"m saying is that once you have the "BASE" game done, you can make a variety of servers to tailor and adjust the base game in any direction you wish.. I would LOVE to see a heroic and hardcore WoW server.. These servers the mobs would be 300% stronger then the base game.. Don't plan on solo'ing many mobs here.. LOL I never understood why a company pushes or directs players to play ONE way or no way option.. If it was me.. I would have 10 more more server types available.
The OP wants a game with a pve focus. You might not like KS but it's going to be the only way we get niche games like pantheon.. I look at it as voting with my dollars. Buying games that offer the same game play over and over is a much worse thing to do and is what got us in this bad situation. kS will end the era of jack of all trade, great at nothing mmos. I'd throw money at pantheon before I spent a cent on a game like ESO
Insta-quote FTW!
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
PvEers are the most selfish mmo gamers out there. The second a pvp update comes out, they act like it's the end of the world. Do you not realize that of all the time spent in mmos by all players, most of it is PvE. Leveling, raiding, farming, etc.
Not only that, but PvEers don't even have to pvp and will complain to no end if they have to spend one second engaging another player. Meanwhile, PvPers not only are forced to PvE, in most games we have to endure hours and hours of boring PvE grinding to even get to the PvP.
Seriously PvEers. You don't have a leg to stand on in this argument. You're the rich kid complaining that the poor kid gets an extra sandwich.
The Official God FAQ
I wish publishers would do that, so players can have truly PvE and PvP realms.
Makes no sense to roll a toon on a PvE realm and we're getting world PvP on PvE content. It's blurring the lines, and making it a mockery to have game play specific realms that don't adhere to game play specific rules.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
There are plenty of indie development, with or without KS.
Plus, i don't pay for wishful thinking. Heck, i don't usually pay for MMOs. However, if you want to KS, it is great. When the game is out, i will decide if i want to play.
No, changing things based on PvP balance only screws up PvEers because they aren't able to meta game and adapt like PvPers. I'm sorry, but the most finely tuned characters with the most optimized setup is always going to PvP.
I've never met a good PvPer who had trouble with PvE. Games are full of good PvEers who are absolutely horrid at PvP.
The Official God FAQ
Because what it does to games like WoW, with specific play style realms...
PvE
PvP
RP-PVE
RP-PVP
They're all separate because the play styles are different. RP is separate because most don't get into it, and it'll interfere with those used to MuDs and enforcing being "in character". It's further defined to RP-PvP, because RP-PvE players don't want to focus on PvE when tripping over daisies; and RP-PvP players want to BE Night Elves saving the race from traitors called Blood Elves!
And in WoW, the classes are NOT specific to PvE nor PvP. One change to benefit PvE raiders, can decimate PvP and vice versa.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
PvE can always be artificially enhanced/nerfed with no backlash. The Lich King isn't going to cancel his sub if his Armor get's dropped by 3%. PvP balance has to be what a game with both is based on.
I highly doubt they're going to develop different mechanics, stats, etc. for each type of server. Doesn't make financial sense to put extra time and money into developing 2-4 versions of the same exact system.
The Official God FAQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX13vYvon6I
What do you see at...
0:49
and
1:28
???
It's the reason why PvE players play the game, and why WotLK was the most popular WoW expansion -- PLENTY of EVERYTHING for PvErs to do...plenty!
And when Cata and MoP came with the PvP centric combat, we got this dead space...
Instead of this -- 25man raid for FTA achieves and mount...and no need to cross-realm!!!
How did you think we had 25man PvP raids IN WotLK? Yeah...
"Why nerf the boss? Just buff the players"
Negatives are a b-a-d thing, especially in entertainment.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
strange all MMOs I know have PVE-nly servers in their listing, except EVE Online.
1/10 for the troll
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Or 1/10 for not reading the thread. -_-
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
WoW is the only real mainstream mmo. So I wouldn't use it as an example. PvPers know wow isn't a pvp game and therefore don't play it. I sure as hell don't. Plus all that evidence is anecdotal and therefore means nothing.
The Official God FAQ
I have the evidence that lined up with the stock reports (notice the difference in the pictures above?), so I don't know why you claim it's "anecdotal", maybe because it doesn't support your view? My view is backed up quarterly.
Can't even PvP when there's not enough players to do group content. And it's funny that in WotLK we had no reason for "connected realms" nor cross-realming to even PvE AND PvP, when the game focused on PvE content.
Bottom photo is a PvP raid on a PvE realm, all possible because the game was focused on PvE and very popular in doing so ("Why nerf the boss? Just buff the players"), because the Lich King was a boss you wanted to kill...he was e-v-i-l.
A popular MMO doesn't discard 80% that plays. Blizzard is finding that out very harshly.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.