The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
My thoughts excactly. felt like GW2 all over again, zerg here serg there if you not part of the zerg dead in five minutes. Eveyone abadons keeps runs onto the next, it's too easy to take them.
They need to have a reason for keep holding. They need upgrade paths in the keeps you take over like GW2.
i also agree.
i played pvp for only about 2 hours but i instantly got that exact same feeling. Not only is there absolutely no strategy needed, but there is no point. This is the same problem GW2 and even Planetside 2 had. there is no "end" to the competition and no real incentive to compete. keeps just change hands whenever either faction has the biggest zerg and nobody actually gains anything. sure it's fun for the first day or so, but after a while it becomes pointless.
it's like playing sports without keeping score.....completely kills the competitive spirit. sure it's fun for half an hour, but then nobody really cares and everyone starts doing something else.
PvP is competition against other players. there needs to be hard rules, room for strategy, and defined winner and loser. It's how every male centered activity has flourished since the beginning of testosterone.
So instanced battlegrounds is what you would want?
The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
My thoughts excactly. felt like GW2 all over again, zerg here serg there if you not part of the zerg dead in five minutes. Eveyone abadons keeps runs onto the next, it's too easy to take them.
They need to have a reason for keep holding. They need upgrade paths in the keeps you take over like GW2.
i also agree.
i played pvp for only about 2 hours but i instantly got that exact same feeling. Not only is there absolutely no strategy needed, but there is no point. This is the same problem GW2 and even Planetside 2 had. there is no "end" to the competition and no real incentive to compete. keeps just change hands whenever either faction has the biggest zerg and nobody actually gains anything. sure it's fun for the first day or so, but after a while it becomes pointless.
it's like playing sports without keeping score.....completely kills the competitive spirit. sure it's fun for half an hour, but then nobody really cares and everyone starts doing something else.
PvP is competition against other players. there needs to be hard rules, room for strategy, and defined winner and loser. It's how every male centered activity has flourished since the beginning of testosterone.
Have'nt got a chance to try PvP yet, but keep in mind that it was in beta (and only for a weekend), so the incentives to repair and defend a keep are not very strong (you know it's not going to last anyways.. ), so I'm not sure how it will end up working come release.
But I agree that incentives are needed. You need to feel you actually win something by taking a keep AND (most importantly) by keeping it !
The greatest incentive I saw in any game was : Darkness Fall.
Sadely, it seems as something the Devs are not willing to reproduce, for a reason that I just can't comprehend.. Well, ok, I have a small idea why, it's probably because of all the outcry that will come when a specific type of players would find out that they don't have access to ALL the content at all time, as they think they are entitled too.
Edit: Though, one thing I don't want is "balanced numbers" .. That is supposed to be war, not an E-sport.. And there is no greater feeling than overcoming the odds on the battlefield!
So instanced battlegrounds is what you would want?
how is it not a battleground already? .....you que up for it. you teleport into it. you are part of predetermined side and cannot switch sides. you have to capture predetermined points. when you are done you exit and go back to the regular pve world...how is that NOT just a large, non timed BG?
as ESO is a themepark i do believe battlegrounds would be funner in the long run.
If not battle grounds, than something like Wintergrasp where the faction that holds the most territory at a predetermined time gets access to and extra dungeon or continent. there needs to be something very tangible that you compete for.
Originally posted by Ghabbo You turn healthbars on for enemies only (that's what I did)... no lag at all in 50v50v50
Still how does that help when you need to x-team? (when its 75 vs 25 vs 25) it goes from pointless to fun if 25 and 25 join forces vs 75). For that to work you need to be able to visually identify an alliance really fast.
That was some of the most fun, my server was dominated by Hibs, so x-teaming with Albs (I played a Mid) made RvR very fun and balanced.
Each faction has a symbol and each symbol is one of 3 colors.......Its extremely easy to see who is who once you turn this option on..
I really enjoyed this because instead of feeling like multiple guilds in the same alliance trying to work together, it felt more like one huge army all defending or attacking....very satifying
The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
My thoughts excactly. felt like GW2 all over again, zerg here serg there if you not part of the zerg dead in five minutes. Eveyone abadons keeps runs onto the next, it's too easy to take them.
They need to have a reason for keep holding. They need upgrade paths in the keeps you take over like GW2.
i also agree.
i played pvp for only about 2 hours but i instantly got that exact same feeling. Not only is there absolutely no strategy needed, but there is no point. This is the same problem GW2 and even Planetside 2 had. there is no "end" to the competition and no real incentive to compete. keeps just change hands whenever either faction has the biggest zerg and nobody actually gains anything. sure it's fun for the first day or so, but after a while it becomes pointless.
it's like playing sports without keeping score.....completely kills the competitive spirit. sure it's fun for half an hour, but then nobody really cares and everyone starts doing something else.
PvP is competition against other players. there needs to be hard rules, room for strategy, and defined winner and loser. It's how every male centered activity has flourished since the beginning of testosterone.
Is nothing like GW2, nothing at all. In TESO you have a war campaing, like Warhammer online were your faction goal was the enemy main city, to siege the enemy capital was needed a lot of communication, strategic and coordination from both sides, it was a war campaign. In TESO your faction goal is the imperial City, people gonna need really a lot of work, tactics and communication to reach that goal, is also a War campaing. In GW2 there was no goal, campaing or meaning, easy like that. TESO war campaing have an end, a clear objetive, siege the imperial city and be the new Emperor.
You played for 2 hs, and clrearly you dont know yet how Cyrodil works. The biggest zerg mean nothing, since a organized group can defend a keep against huge numbers. You even can hide and play a guerilla game with a group to cut off enemy reinforcements. But we still under the NDA so we can really talk about this yet. But they did really an awesome job with the PvP in TESO, where GW2 fails TESO stand.
The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
My thoughts excactly. felt like GW2 all over again, zerg here serg there if you not part of the zerg dead in five minutes. Eveyone abadons keeps runs onto the next, it's too easy to take them.
They need to have a reason for keep holding. They need upgrade paths in the keeps you take over like GW2.
i also agree.
i played pvp for only about 2 hours but i instantly got that exact same feeling. Not only is there absolutely no strategy needed, but there is no point. This is the same problem GW2 and even Planetside 2 had. there is no "end" to the competition and no real incentive to compete. keeps just change hands whenever either faction has the biggest zerg and nobody actually gains anything. sure it's fun for the first day or so, but after a while it becomes pointless.
it's like playing sports without keeping score.....completely kills the competitive spirit. sure it's fun for half an hour, but then nobody really cares and everyone starts doing something else.
PvP is competition against other players. there needs to be hard rules, room for strategy, and defined winner and loser. It's how every male centered activity has flourished since the beginning of testosterone.
Is nothing like GW2, nothing at all. In TESO you have a war campaing, like Warhammer online were your faction goal was the enemy main city, to siege the enemy capital was needed a lot of communication, strategic and coordination from both sides, it was a war campaign. In TESO your faction goal is the imperial City, people gonna need really a lot of work, tactics and communication to reach that goal, is also a War campaing. In GW2 there was no goal, campaing or meaning, easy like that. TESO war campaing have an end, a clear objetive, siege the imperial city and be the new Emperor.
You played for 2 hs, and clrearly you dont know yet how Cyrodil works. The biggest zerg mean nothing, since a organized group can defend a keep against huge numbers. You even can hide and play a guerilla game with a group to cut off enemy reinforcements. But we still under the NDA so we can really talk about this yet. But they did really an awesome job with the PvP in TESO, where GW2 fails TESO stand.
Well as long as it s like WARHAMMERs city sieges, it surely will be a success. Lol, one of the worst ideas WARHAMMER had was city sieges. There really wasn t much strategy involved in that either, leading up to the city siege fight itself, the BIGGER ZERG won.
The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
My thoughts excactly. felt like GW2 all over again, zerg here serg there if you not part of the zerg dead in five minutes. Eveyone abadons keeps runs onto the next, it's too easy to take them.
They need to have a reason for keep holding. They need upgrade paths in the keeps you take over like GW2.
i also agree.
i played pvp for only about 2 hours but i instantly got that exact same feeling. Not only is there absolutely no strategy needed, but there is no point. This is the same problem GW2 and even Planetside 2 had. there is no "end" to the competition and no real incentive to compete. keeps just change hands whenever either faction has the biggest zerg and nobody actually gains anything. sure it's fun for the first day or so, but after a while it becomes pointless.
it's like playing sports without keeping score.....completely kills the competitive spirit. sure it's fun for half an hour, but then nobody really cares and everyone starts doing something else.
PvP is competition against other players. there needs to be hard rules, room for strategy, and defined winner and loser. It's how every male centered activity has flourished since the beginning of testosterone.
Is nothing like GW2, nothing at all. In TESO you have a war campaing, like Warhammer online were your faction goal was the enemy main city, to siege the enemy capital was needed a lot of communication, strategic and coordination from both sides, it was a war campaign. In TESO your faction goal is the imperial City, people gonna need really a lot of work, tactics and communication to reach that goal, is also a War campaing. In GW2 there was no goal, campaing or meaning, easy like that. TESO war campaing have an end, a clear objetive, siege the imperial city and be the new Emperor.
You played for 2 hs, and clrearly you dont know yet how Cyrodil works. The biggest zerg mean nothing, since a organized group can defend a keep against huge numbers. You even can hide and play a guerilla game with a group to cut off enemy reinforcements. But we still under the NDA so we can really talk about this yet. But they did really an awesome job with the PvP in TESO, where GW2 fails TESO stand.
Well as long as it s like WARHAMMERs city sieges, it surely will be a success. Lol, one of the worst ideas WARHAMMER had was city sieges. There really wasn t much strategy involved in that either, leading up to the city siege fight itself, the BIGGER ZERG won.
I was talking about the ¨war campaing¨, only. But WAR city sieges was a zerg fest yes, but just on the old days, at launch and a few months after that, at the end it was a 24vs24 intanced battle with objetives and stages, one of the best thing that mythic did.
The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
My thoughts excactly. felt like GW2 all over again, zerg here serg there if you not part of the zerg dead in five minutes. Eveyone abadons keeps runs onto the next, it's too easy to take them.
They need to have a reason for keep holding. They need upgrade paths in the keeps you take over like GW2.
i also agree.
i played pvp for only about 2 hours but i instantly got that exact same feeling. Not only is there absolutely no strategy needed, but there is no point. This is the same problem GW2 and even Planetside 2 had. there is no "end" to the competition and no real incentive to compete. keeps just change hands whenever either faction has the biggest zerg and nobody actually gains anything. sure it's fun for the first day or so, but after a while it becomes pointless.
it's like playing sports without keeping score.....completely kills the competitive spirit. sure it's fun for half an hour, but then nobody really cares and everyone starts doing something else.
PvP is competition against other players. there needs to be hard rules, room for strategy, and defined winner and loser. It's how every male centered activity has flourished since the beginning of testosterone.
You guys are absolutely right about wanting to have a more permanent feel. At the same time the turn over is much less than gw2 due to the size and design of the map. I played a lot of solo behind the lines play. I always found 2-3 others in the same spot as me.
The way i see it is, there's about 4 months of progression 10-50 AvA only. I almost look at it like planetside 2 or something.
Actualy they will make a darkness falls type of dungeon for eso.
Not sure why but i cant copy and paste the url but do a search on elder scrolls foundry there's an article about them saying the dev stated they will be making such a dungeon.
Also lets not forget daoc didnt start with everything implemented right at launch either. Lets assume elderscrolls online will exist for a couple years. Lots will be added to pvp we can be sure about that. They didnt add cyrodill as an afterthought like most other mmorpgs do.
People can moan and bitch all they want but hey if you prefer instanced arena style pvp then fine by me. It can have its charm. I prefer large epic battles. At least eso does epic pvp proper.
The problem in my opinion is i think it will get boring real fast. It feels like its missing something. Its soooo easy to take over a keep and then everyone runs off and abandons the keep and then you lose that said claimed keep, then 30 mins later ppl wake up and re take the lost keep. rinse and repeat for the whole day with that keep changing guilds every turn. It would of been nice to have a sense of home feeling to keeps and other cappable places.
Atm it justs a zerg running to 1 keep then to another. Guilds will cap a keep then go to sleep( or other things ) and lose the keep, what did they gain? what was the purpose? theres no meaning to it, whats the point. You can hire mercs to put in your keep but they dissapear after 5 mins. you can put balistas and other siege equipment.. but they die if no 1 is on them around 3-5 mins.. theres no sense of progression.
Am i the only one who may be thinking this?
p.s im half cut not sure if this makes any sense lol
My thoughts excactly. felt like GW2 all over again, zerg here serg there if you not part of the zerg dead in five minutes. Eveyone abadons keeps runs onto the next, it's too easy to take them.
They need to have a reason for keep holding. They need upgrade paths in the keeps you take over like GW2.
i also agree.
i played pvp for only about 2 hours but i instantly got that exact same feeling. Not only is there absolutely no strategy needed, but there is no point. This is the same problem GW2 and even Planetside 2 had. there is no "end" to the competition and no real incentive to compete. keeps just change hands whenever either faction has the biggest zerg and nobody actually gains anything. sure it's fun for the first day or so, but after a while it becomes pointless.
it's like playing sports without keeping score.....completely kills the competitive spirit. sure it's fun for half an hour, but then nobody really cares and everyone starts doing something else.
PvP is competition against other players. there needs to be hard rules, room for strategy, and defined winner and loser. It's how every male centered activity has flourished since the beginning of testosterone.
You guys are absolutely right about wanting to have a more permanent feel. At the same time the turn over is much less than gw2 due to the size and design of the map. I played a lot of solo behind the lines play. I always found 2-3 others in the same spot as me.
The way i see it is, there's about 4 months of progression 10-50 AvA only. I almost look at it like planetside 2 or something.
I think what people are missing is that this stress test let about 5k players into the zone rather then the 2k cap......Less people will mean it will take alot longer to take over a keep....ALSO less people mean more organized pvp
There is progression: there are even frickin skill lines to unlock by upping your rank in your faction
Zerg Only?: Me and a small team kept Mines capped to keep certain keeps from being repaired and the lack of repairs made a HUGE difference.
No reward for PVP: The missions make you go out of your way on solo missions into enemy territory.
It may be a little more zergy than expected but that's because we only had 2 days instead of a month or two. Basically fortifying then moving on but keeping some people stationed at owned keeps will be needed.
People leaving will make it very difficult early on - don't expect "realm" pride when 50% or 75% or whatever leave and home campaign numbers fall. Not the same as server mergers but still. One reason I see zergs dominating.
No clear race distinction won't help - trying to pick out the right target in a mass of people is never easy at the best of times.
And I wonder how many gankers will be Imperials ...
DAoC had a lot of good points - it was a "genteel" game from a different time lets say. It also had its share of problems.
The limit on how often you can change your home realm - ex-DAoC players will know why. The mega-server tech will, imo, bring the "dawn raid" issue of there being no point in talking a keep and trying to defend it. It could also result in 24 hour guilds. From my experience in DAoC there are possibilities - I used to be in a 24 hour guild in DAoC Mostly however I suspect it will be a reason not to look after keeps and simply zerg.
And - like them or lump them - zergs are the de-facto order of play these days!
As to small scale stealth / sniping ... where these issues ever a problem in DAoC... cough, splutter. Well they have come up with a solution ... everyone can! There will be a gnashing of teeth however.
Two final points. First DAoC was, in the grand scheme of things, played by very few people so not that many appreciate the good and bad points of the game - and it had both. Second Zenimax cannot "copy" DAoC - EA own the copyright. (Yes Rob Denton heading up a "new" studio to "re-vamp" UO and DAoC but still an EA studio - sink or swim imo.)
Do some people not read or something? One reason for holding a keep I don't see how anyone can miss is: no Auction House in the game. You wanna make money? You need to own (and hold) a keep.
Instant incentive for crafters and PvE players to participate in some way to PvP and holding keeps. Some crafting components are unique to Cyrodiil and there are public dungeons as well. Before you say "But there needs to be incentive to hold teh keeps!!!" Do a bit of reading first please.
I wouldn't really be surprised if the PvP of eso will be the typical respoint button spam and running back to the action few hundred times a day with no loss no risk whatsoever.
Im trying to figure out how a PVEer gets into PVP and slowly works there way into it to improve without feeling like an idiot lol. You read the chat box with any PVP game and it just feels so much more hostile than the PVE chat box.
-"No idiots go to that keep"
-"Why should I listen to leaders if the leaders aren't doing jack S%$T."
etc.
I really hope they have a way to let people who want to try not feel like between the rants and the overwhelming nature of PVP in general in a huge zone, that there is a way to break people in. Maybe PVPers will feel like the only way to do that is to jump right into the fire and die and learn. Thats intimidating to a lot of PVErs I think. I always felt more comfortable in scenarios which were tightly controlled and easier to dive into without feeling overwhelmed.
Any suggestions? lol
Follow the zerg. No skill required.
Good laugh for a week or so then it gets boring when you realise it is just a zerg.
PvP is just broken now a days period. Too many people who got into mmo's for the pve and dont really get pvp or whatever the case is so PvP areas given to us now a days are lamed down versions of what they should be.
PvP is never pointless in any circumstances if you can either loot players (stuff you are wearing could be bound so its ultimately not a huge deal). Also if players can build and destroy other player buildings with a proper rule set in place.
When you can't do either of these things there will never be a point to PvP.
P.S my favortite was how Meridian 59 did it, levels were hit points and you started at 25 and could never drop below that however every time you died for whatever reason you lost a hit point as long as you were above 25. Talk about thrilling PvP when a loss is to be had your adrenaline pumps.
Im trying to figure out how a PVEer gets into PVP and slowly works there way into it to improve without feeling like an idiot lol. You read the chat box with any PVP game and it just feels so much more hostile than the PVE chat box.
-"No idiots go to that keep"
-"Why should I listen to leaders if the leaders aren't doing jack S%$T."
etc.
I really hope they have a way to let people who want to try not feel like between the rants and the overwhelming nature of PVP in general in a huge zone, that there is a way to break people in. Maybe PVPers will feel like the only way to do that is to jump right into the fire and die and learn. Thats intimidating to a lot of PVErs I think. I always felt more comfortable in scenarios which were tightly controlled and easier to dive into without feeling overwhelmed.
Any suggestions? lol
Follow the zerg. No skill required.
Good laugh for a week or so then it gets boring when you realise it is just a zerg.
I've been in disorganized zergs and I've been in well run, organized zergs. As in real life, success increases dramatically with quality leadership and the rank & file who fall in line. Disorganized zergs pretty much get farmed by the organized zergs. If you find yourself in the typical zerg (probably 90%) with a bunch of divas who prefer to do their own thing, you know you're in trouble.
Im trying to figure out how a PVEer gets into PVP and slowly works there way into it to improve without feeling like an idiot lol. You read the chat box with any PVP game and it just feels so much more hostile than the PVE chat box.
-"No idiots go to that keep"
-"Why should I listen to leaders if the leaders aren't doing jack S%$T."
etc.
I really hope they have a way to let people who want to try not feel like between the rants and the overwhelming nature of PVP in general in a huge zone, that there is a way to break people in. Maybe PVPers will feel like the only way to do that is to jump right into the fire and die and learn. Thats intimidating to a lot of PVErs I think. I always felt more comfortable in scenarios which were tightly controlled and easier to dive into without feeling overwhelmed.
Any suggestions? lol
Follow the zerg. No skill required.
Good laugh for a week or so then it gets boring when you realise it is just a zerg.
I've been in disorganized zergs and I've been in well run, organized zergs. As in real life, success increases dramatically with quality leadership and the rank & file who fall in line. Disorganized zergs pretty much get farmed by the organized zergs. If you find yourself in the typical zerg (probably 90%) with a bunch of divas who prefer to do their own thing, you know you're in trouble.
Unfortunately without collision detection, and friendly fire it often boils down to whoever has the biggest zerg wins.
Add to that little death penalty (just rez and run back, yay!) and you have PVP that gets boring quick. At least IMO.
With that said, i haven't had a chance to try ESO PVP yet, but if it turns out to be another variation of musical forts between zergs i'll be extremely disappointed.
haha not sure which server you were playing but it was all zerg and little (being very generous) to no stealth groups. The one with the biggest zerg wins by sheer numbers or numbers of polys to lag the other person Still a bit better though.
Unfortunately without collision detection, and friendly fire it often boils down to whoever has the biggest zerg wins.
Add to that little death penalty (just rez and run back, yay!) and you have PVP that gets boring quick. At least IMO.
With that said, i haven't had a chance to try ESO PVP yet, but if it turns out to be another variation of musical forts between zergs i'll be extremely disappointed.
We're pretty much on the same page when it comes to the "rez and run back" issue that plagues the MMOs of today. In fact, if I had my way,I would go so far as to completely get rid of the player ability to resurrect. Way too many MMO games these days have significantly reduced the penalty of death. In GW2, for instance, EVERY single player can resurrect a downed player. Talk about pitiful. In the name of convenience and satisfying the "entitled", they have indirectly ruined the fun of large scale warfare by ripping out the consequences. At the very least, a player who dies in battle should be kept from returning (either by distance or time) for a reasonable amount of time.
People leaving will make it very difficult early on - don't expect "realm" pride when 50% or 75% or whatever leave and home campaign numbers fall. Not the same as server mergers but still. One reason I see zergs dominating.
This is irrelevant because of how the server architecture works, its a benefit of the "megaserver". The game fills up instances and then replicates new instances when the ones they have are full. Ultimately, you'll always have instances that are at or near the population cap. If Zergs are a major issue, you can always lower the population cap of an instance to encourage smaller group play
No clear race distinction won't help - trying to pick out the right target in a mass of people is never easy at the best of times.
Sounds like a real War. Highlight someone, if they glow red... they're a bad guy. It's not really that hard.
And I wonder how many gankers will be Imperials ...
Imperials look like every other human race....
DAoC had a lot of good points - it was a "genteel" game from a different time lets say. It also had its share of problems.
The limit on how often you can change your home realm - ex-DAoC players will know why. The mega-server tech will, imo, bring the "dawn raid" issue of there being no point in talking a keep and trying to defend it. It could also result in 24 hour guilds. From my experience in DAoC there are possibilities - I used to be in a 24 hour guild in DAoC Mostly however I suspect it will be a reason not to look after keeps and simply zerg.
And - like them or lump them - zergs are the de-facto order of play these days!
As to small scale stealth / sniping ... where these issues ever a problem in DAoC... cough, splutter. Well they have come up with a solution ... everyone can! There will be a gnashing of teeth however.
Two final points. First DAoC was, in the grand scheme of things, played by very few people so not that many appreciate the good and bad points of the game - and it had both. Second Zenimax cannot "copy" DAoC - EA own the copyright. (Yes Rob Denton heading up a "new" studio to "re-vamp" UO and DAoC but still an EA studio - sink or swim imo.)
This is nonsense. Every MMO copies other MMOs. THere is no copyright on gameplay elements.
Comments
So instanced battlegrounds is what you would want?
Have'nt got a chance to try PvP yet, but keep in mind that it was in beta (and only for a weekend), so the incentives to repair and defend a keep are not very strong (you know it's not going to last anyways.. ), so I'm not sure how it will end up working come release.
But I agree that incentives are needed. You need to feel you actually win something by taking a keep AND (most importantly) by keeping it !
The greatest incentive I saw in any game was : Darkness Fall.
Sadely, it seems as something the Devs are not willing to reproduce, for a reason that I just can't comprehend.. Well, ok, I have a small idea why, it's probably because of all the outcry that will come when a specific type of players would find out that they don't have access to ALL the content at all time, as they think they are entitled too.
Edit: Though, one thing I don't want is "balanced numbers" .. That is supposed to be war, not an E-sport.. And there is no greater feeling than overcoming the odds on the battlefield!
how is it not a battleground already? .....you que up for it. you teleport into it. you are part of predetermined side and cannot switch sides. you have to capture predetermined points. when you are done you exit and go back to the regular pve world...how is that NOT just a large, non timed BG?
as ESO is a themepark i do believe battlegrounds would be funner in the long run.
If not battle grounds, than something like Wintergrasp where the faction that holds the most territory at a predetermined time gets access to and extra dungeon or continent. there needs to be something very tangible that you compete for.
Each faction has a symbol and each symbol is one of 3 colors.......Its extremely easy to see who is who once you turn this option on..
I really enjoyed this because instead of feeling like multiple guilds in the same alliance trying to work together, it felt more like one huge army all defending or attacking....very satifying
Is nothing like GW2, nothing at all. In TESO you have a war campaing, like Warhammer online were your faction goal was the enemy main city, to siege the enemy capital was needed a lot of communication, strategic and coordination from both sides, it was a war campaign. In TESO your faction goal is the imperial City, people gonna need really a lot of work, tactics and communication to reach that goal, is also a War campaing. In GW2 there was no goal, campaing or meaning, easy like that. TESO war campaing have an end, a clear objetive, siege the imperial city and be the new Emperor.
You played for 2 hs, and clrearly you dont know yet how Cyrodil works. The biggest zerg mean nothing, since a organized group can defend a keep against huge numbers. You even can hide and play a guerilla game with a group to cut off enemy reinforcements. But we still under the NDA so we can really talk about this yet. But they did really an awesome job with the PvP in TESO, where GW2 fails TESO stand.
Well as long as it s like WARHAMMERs city sieges, it surely will be a success. Lol, one of the worst ideas WARHAMMER had was city sieges. There really wasn t much strategy involved in that either, leading up to the city siege fight itself, the BIGGER ZERG won.
I was talking about the ¨war campaing¨, only. But WAR city sieges was a zerg fest yes, but just on the old days, at launch and a few months after that, at the end it was a 24vs24 intanced battle with objetives and stages, one of the best thing that mythic did.
You guys are absolutely right about wanting to have a more permanent feel. At the same time the turn over is much less than gw2 due to the size and design of the map. I played a lot of solo behind the lines play. I always found 2-3 others in the same spot as me.
The way i see it is, there's about 4 months of progression 10-50 AvA only. I almost look at it like planetside 2 or something.
Actualy they will make a darkness falls type of dungeon for eso.
Not sure why but i cant copy and paste the url but do a search on elder scrolls foundry there's an article about them saying the dev stated they will be making such a dungeon.
Also lets not forget daoc didnt start with everything implemented right at launch either. Lets assume elderscrolls online will exist for a couple years. Lots will be added to pvp we can be sure about that. They didnt add cyrodill as an afterthought like most other mmorpgs do.
People can moan and bitch all they want but hey if you prefer instanced arena style pvp then fine by me. It can have its charm. I prefer large epic battles. At least eso does epic pvp proper.
I think what people are missing is that this stress test let about 5k players into the zone rather then the 2k cap......Less people will mean it will take alot longer to take over a keep....ALSO less people mean more organized pvp
There is progression: there are even frickin skill lines to unlock by upping your rank in your faction
Zerg Only?: Me and a small team kept Mines capped to keep certain keeps from being repaired and the lack of repairs made a HUGE difference.
No reward for PVP: The missions make you go out of your way on solo missions into enemy territory.
It may be a little more zergy than expected but that's because we only had 2 days instead of a month or two. Basically fortifying then moving on but keeping some people stationed at owned keeps will be needed.
For those who bother to PvP I see mostly:
DAoC had a lot of good points - it was a "genteel" game from a different time lets say. It also had its share of problems.
The limit on how often you can change your home realm - ex-DAoC players will know why. The mega-server tech will, imo, bring the "dawn raid" issue of there being no point in talking a keep and trying to defend it. It could also result in 24 hour guilds. From my experience in DAoC there are possibilities - I used to be in a 24 hour guild in DAoC Mostly however I suspect it will be a reason not to look after keeps and simply zerg.
And - like them or lump them - zergs are the de-facto order of play these days!
As to small scale stealth / sniping ... where these issues ever a problem in DAoC... cough, splutter. Well they have come up with a solution ... everyone can! There will be a gnashing of teeth however.
Two final points. First DAoC was, in the grand scheme of things, played by very few people so not that many appreciate the good and bad points of the game - and it had both. Second Zenimax cannot "copy" DAoC - EA own the copyright. (Yes Rob Denton heading up a "new" studio to "re-vamp" UO and DAoC but still an EA studio - sink or swim imo.)
It's not hard.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Do some people not read or something? One reason for holding a keep I don't see how anyone can miss is: no Auction House in the game. You wanna make money? You need to own (and hold) a keep.
Instant incentive for crafters and PvE players to participate in some way to PvP and holding keeps. Some crafting components are unique to Cyrodiil and there are public dungeons as well. Before you say "But there needs to be incentive to hold teh keeps!!!" Do a bit of reading first please.
ArcheAge, Black Desert and Bless videos InporylemQQ Youtube
Follow the zerg. No skill required.
Good laugh for a week or so then it gets boring when you realise it is just a zerg.
PvP is just broken now a days period. Too many people who got into mmo's for the pve and dont really get pvp or whatever the case is so PvP areas given to us now a days are lamed down versions of what they should be.
PvP is never pointless in any circumstances if you can either loot players (stuff you are wearing could be bound so its ultimately not a huge deal). Also if players can build and destroy other player buildings with a proper rule set in place.
When you can't do either of these things there will never be a point to PvP.
P.S my favortite was how Meridian 59 did it, levels were hit points and you started at 25 and could never drop below that however every time you died for whatever reason you lost a hit point as long as you were above 25. Talk about thrilling PvP when a loss is to be had your adrenaline pumps.
I've been in disorganized zergs and I've been in well run, organized zergs. As in real life, success increases dramatically with quality leadership and the rank & file who fall in line. Disorganized zergs pretty much get farmed by the organized zergs. If you find yourself in the typical zerg (probably 90%) with a bunch of divas who prefer to do their own thing, you know you're in trouble.
Unfortunately without collision detection, and friendly fire it often boils down to whoever has the biggest zerg wins.
Add to that little death penalty (just rez and run back, yay!) and you have PVP that gets boring quick. At least IMO.
With that said, i haven't had a chance to try ESO PVP yet, but if it turns out to be another variation of musical forts between zergs i'll be extremely disappointed.
Ryoshi1 as Rikimaru
We're pretty much on the same page when it comes to the "rez and run back" issue that plagues the MMOs of today. In fact, if I had my way,I would go so far as to completely get rid of the player ability to resurrect. Way too many MMO games these days have significantly reduced the penalty of death. In GW2, for instance, EVERY single player can resurrect a downed player. Talk about pitiful. In the name of convenience and satisfying the "entitled", they have indirectly ruined the fun of large scale warfare by ripping out the consequences. At the very least, a player who dies in battle should be kept from returning (either by distance or time) for a reasonable amount of time.
It's easy to know factions apart, set enemy play lifebar always on. Go for the red bars and kill.