I think this is great idea. Personally I only play one character throughout a MMORPG (unless alts are required) and I would've missed a lot zones for this game.
Going through these zones with 1 toon as a form of progression is great IMHO and it's not lazy/cheap, it's a SMART use of resources.
Don't forget the PvE Group that wants social experience. We are forced into the single player questing as well. Yes it sucks for PvP player, but it also sucks for PvE guys... and for people liking both.
It is NEVER good to force all player into a single way to advance. And i don't understand WHY in the world they try to. They have other ways coded in, they just block them. Zenimax could offer 3-4 alternative ways of meaninfull advancement and freely choose to only support one.
Also think about the skillpoints as well. It is not just the xp rate. Quite a lot of quests do give out skill points, so you are forced to do them anyways, if you want to get all your skills.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Yeah, bolstering is a fundamentally flawed system. And now with a serious lack of XP in PVP, the prospect of going into Cyrodil to have your ass handed to you at a lower level is even less appealing. The road to 50 is apparently, as of right now, favoring in a much larger than normal ratio, the PvE questing portion. Many players would like to have more options open to them for realistic progression.
We'll see how it all works out. If they keep it the way it is, people will just feel forced to go through the quests till endgame. That's fine. People that like what they offer at endgame will go through it just to get there anyway. It's just too bad that people don't have another realistic option that they might find far more interesting than PvE questing.
Giving all things a bit more thought I don't think this will be much of a problem at launch (at least for a month or so) especially if they do indeed succeed in slowing people down,, which is what I see most of these XP nerfs being about. It's a way to hold people back until endgame is a bit more fleshed out. They don't have the start of their PVE endgame in place as of yet Craglorn. WIth those things in place we may see a different approach by zenimax.
You are right that over time the bolstering will be redundant given vertical skill progression at endgame. AT launch though there aren't going to be many if any 50's running around.
Obviously, that is not what it is about. Otherwise they would have nerfed XP across the board and included the quest XP gain in the nerf.
Putting open PVP in a PVE centered MMORPG evokes an entire plethora of issues.
(1) Very casual PVE gamers meet pro PVPers. Usually in sports that is prevented by leagues, so a top leage soccer or baseball team never meets some low-level amateur team, because the thrill in sports comes form meeting enemies of the SAME skill level. Now PVP is like a sports, but without leagues. So your amateur team may meet a pro team, and you simply have no chance. In the long turn, it drives the casual gamers away, and if a MMO has PVP as THE endgame, it leaves them with no endgame at all. Unlike in sports, when a pro fights an amateur he accepts a handicap to give the amateur a chance, in MMO-PVP casual gamers get no handicap to support them, either.
(2) By and large PVP combat functions entirely different than PVE, so there are ALWAYS imabalaces. Skills which are cool to have in PVE, but ruin the PVP balance. In games where PVE and PVP both exist, they always nerf the skills to fit into PVP. The PVP always has the dominant influence over how skill are implemented. I never once saw a MMO with both PVE and PVP where a skill was made to improve the PVE combat in ignorance of the PVP, but it was ALWAYS the other way around: the PVE fun and the bend to the PVP fun, despite the fact that in many mixed MMO the vast majority doesn't even play PVP. So simply said, PVP in almost all cases undermines the fun of the PVE experience. A lot of cool and fun skills, spell and attacks you could use in PVE are eliminated or heavily nerfed to fit the PVP balancing.
Especially from this latter fact, I don't see that PVE and PVP mix well at atll. In the early MMOs, Everquest, WoW asf. there WAS no PVP at all, or only in small arenas as a sort of sideline fun. But not as entirely extra sphere of gaming. And tbh I preferred that. In that way there was cool and elaborate PVE with tons of cool abilities, because there was no real need to balance classes, and those who loved PVP played PVP games like Planetside. As it is I nowadays would rather return to the Everquest style pure PVE MMOs. I feel like trying to shoehorn PVP into a PVE MMO is never doing well, and essentially is sucks out a lot of work, manpower and possibilities out of a potentially cool PVE centered MMO. I dunno why it became so popular to shoehorn some PVP into MMOs where most people (IMVPO) won't PVP very much anyway, because a lot of RPG gamers don't even do that.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
In GW 2 this is done throughout the game so essentially you can do the low level content by being scaled down. Not exactly an old idea but it is definitely a cheap one. Makes it easier for them to 'create' content. Didn't everyone love this in GW 2 in fact don't most people powerlevel in Queensdale doing the champ train?
In GW 2 this is done throughout the game so essentially you can do the low level content by being scaled down. Not exactly an old idea but it is definitely a cheap one. Makes it easier for them to 'create' content. Didn't everyone love this in GW 2 in fact don't most people powerlevel in Queensdale doing the champ train?
No, this isn't the same. GW2 works like normal mmos but downlevels you to that particular area.
ESO doesn't have scaling so you'll still outlevel the previous content. In +/++ areas the mobs just get a stat boost to take longer to kill them.
But because each zone gets a veteran rank 1-10, you'll still outlevel even the +/++ content. That is, if the difference in power between vr1 and vr10 is considerable. And if it is, that'll be a nightmare for pvp with Level 50 VR10 players vs boosted low level players. I'd really like some info on rank power.
It's just a cheap way to extend the game.. tacked on near the last minute. Not seeing players from the other factions in their own zones is stupid as well. After a few weeks there will be more of the other faction's players playing in your faction's zones.. so they would be their zones, wouldn't they?
Dunno.. I'm just underwhelmed by it. It's like you get to endgame and then all you do is the other factions levelling game?? Makes no sense. It's not endgame, it's just 10 more levels called something else. Endgame is what there is to do when you're Veteran Rank 10, is there anything?
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
I played a new char in 3 different betas and in one i grouped all the time the second i solo quested the whole time and in the third i neither quested or grouped and in all 3 cases i got to exactly the same level. So although i don't think they have finished the exp gain amounts i think it is not bad as far as balanced exp gain goes. I haven't and don't intend to try any pvp in any of the betas. I also found the group experience a lot more fun than the solo questing.
It's just a cheap way to extend the game.. tacked on near the last minute. Not seeing players from the other factions in their own zones is stupid as well. After a few weeks there will be more of the other faction's players playing in your faction's zones.. so they would be their zones, wouldn't they?
Dunno.. I'm just underwhelmed by it. It's like you get to endgame and then all you do is the other factions levelling game?? Makes no sense. It's not endgame, it's just 10 more levels called something else. Endgame is what there is to do when you're Veteran Rank 10, is there anything?
For me endgame will be AvA,Craglorn & Crafting..the VR stuff I see it only as leveling process
Still doesn't address the issue of fighting in Cyrodiil for hours and getting crap XP.
You have the people who recently made threads in reddit, here, at the TF, everywhere.... about how they had figured out the best way to level through PVP and make enough gold in a weekend to buy a horse.... or did you miss that post here a couple of weeks back?
People find weaknesses or advantages and developers read it as "exploit" and nerf it.
I'm sure when the dust settles, leveling through RvR will be perfectly viable...minus the extra sky shards and skill point quest rewards of course... but if your goal is to get to 50 ASAP to have an RvR advantage over bolstered scrubs, you'll get that.
Why is it that whenever you respond to anyone who has a critiscism of ESO, no matter how valid, you always reply with a thinly veiled insult?
I'ts almost as if you think putting people down makes their complaints less valid.
I've seen this video before - basically again veteran ranks = forced PvE questing except this time you start in other faction lowbie areas were those level 4 mobs are scaled to 50VR1.
To me this is pretty lame as an AvA player I feel forced to do something I dislike as its the only efficient way of progressing your character - questing.
Why can't we level via AvA and earn veteran ranks again via AvA?
Nerfing XP everywhere except questing = lame.
My 2c.
ESO is such a bipolar game - one one hand they give you this awesome zone to PvP in - and at the same time they force you to progress via PvE which is dull and boring in comparison - again my opinion.
Why do you do something you do not like? You will be punished sooner or later for having done that, you know that, everyone knows that - and that punishment is nothing external, it is what you have created and then lateron feel as suffering.
So many players do this and then lateron blame the game (ridiculous) that "it" has stolen them life-time. Where they clearly are the ones create their own gaming experience by what they do and not do.
I guess many many individuals have to learn when to say stop and when to go into another direction.
It's just a cheap way to extend the game.. tacked on near the last minute. Not seeing players from the other factions in their own zones is stupid as well. After a few weeks there will be more of the other faction's players playing in your faction's zones.. so they would be their zones, wouldn't they?
Dunno.. I'm just underwhelmed by it. It's like you get to endgame and then all you do is the other factions levelling game?? Makes no sense. It's not endgame, it's just 10 more levels called something else. Endgame is what there is to do when you're Veteran Rank 10, is there anything?
Is just one more option to solo PvE or with friends, maybe to find caft mats etc. but an option, you still have all the Hard mode dungeons, Cyrodil with the AvA, all the caves, and also the daylies quests on the zone. Whart we saw on the vid, is just one more option that the payers have at 50, just that.
I watched the video AND honestly I am not thrilled bout being phased from other players in the same zone one you outleveled your faction zones . Being a consumer I have the option to look elsewhere for a game and content suiting my needs and come monday I am cancelling my preorder for ESO . Hopefully they release some info on endgame content but im not counting on it
Originally posted by BainSamryn I watched the video AND honestly I am not thrilled bout being phased from other players in the same zone one you outleveled your faction zones . Being a consumer I have the option to look elsewhere for a game and content suiting my needs and come monday I am cancelling my preorder for ESO . Hopefully they release some info on endgame content but im not counting on it
Indeed, if this issue upsets you so much, cancelling your pre-order sounds like the best thing you can do.
This aspect of the game is not going to change EVER.
I've seen this video before - basically again veteran ranks = forced PvE questing except this time you start in other faction lowbie areas were those level 4 mobs are scaled to 50VR1.
To me this is pretty lame as an AvA player I feel forced to do something I dislike as its the only efficient way of progressing your character - questing.
Why can't we level via AvA and earn veteran ranks again via AvA?
Nerfing XP everywhere except questing = lame.
My 2c.
ESO is such a bipolar game - one one hand they give you this awesome zone to PvP in - and at the same time they force you to progress via PvE which is dull and boring in comparison - again my opinion.
Why do you do something you do not like? You will be punished sooner or later for having done that, you know that, everyone knows that - and that punishment is nothing external, it is what you have created and then lateron feel as suffering.
So many players do this and then lateron blame the game (ridiculous) that "it" has stolen them life-time. Where they clearly are the ones create their own gaming experience by what they do and not do.
I guess many many individuals have to learn when to say stop and when to go into another direction.
I love AvA in ESO - so I am doing something I like. I love playing with my guild.
What I don't like is solo quest grinding - unfortunately other than not playing the game, I have no other choice.
So my choice is to just push through it, rip through it as fast as possible, then enjoy AvA.
I am not a PvPer but the poster above has a point considering ESO, according to Zenimax and game trailers, is about the 3-faction war. I think that what is happening is that Zenimax doesn't want players to level up too fast in Cyrodiil to avoid some players to control a campaign. I can see many players who dislike the PvE fed ex quests leveling up outside of Cyrodiil, then once they are level 50 they will move to Cyrodiil, where the war is. I don't like much PvP and think it would have been better to leave Cyrodiil PvP as a standalone product. In my opinion PvP is killing the MMORPGs. Remember in the beginning when devs were focusing on Cyrodiil PvP, then later things changed to "we need to make a game that feels more like Elder Scrolls"? And don't get me started with the add-on fiasco, which doesn't affect em as I don't care, but PvPers seems to got the shaft at the end.
I'll pass. The story, lore, and adventuring is great. Some of the builds and playstyles aren't too shabby. Crafting is great. Dungeon delving is fun. The rest is sub par.
To be honest id really love to see Preorder Numbers before and after this last patch. Sadly we will never know lol. Some people claim they love it, some claim otherwise...
Anyways, the last of OUR group canceled yesterday, so 8 preorder canceled... wondering how many new preorder they got from people that like sologames and questgrinder tho. At least they are the more vocal peeps haha.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
2 hours before the last beta ended, I made a Dragon Knight on EP. I rushed through the Tutorial, and went straight to the Dwarven something-or-rather...a public Dungeon. I stayed in one room and farmed, seeing how fast I could get to L10 as a test for launch. Mind you, it was constant killing of about 6 spawns and 1 boss (if you've been there, you probably know the exact room I'm referring to). At one time, there were about 12 of us and with the open tapping, none of us were grouped. I made 10 in just under two hours.
On the other side, I had solely quested on a Nightblade earlier in the weekend, and it took me about 3.5-4.
As I understand it, this is exactly why the change was made, so having seen it first hand, I totally understand the reasoning. I spent the majority of the weekend PvPing, so I'd say I'm pretty focused on that. The only issue with the "Kill 20 player" quest is that as far as sustainability, it's more efficient to complete the quest, die quickly, rez and run back. I found myself doing it and racking in the AvA points (1k per turn in). They seem to be aware of this...
There are discussions about adding more PVP Quests in Cyrodiil or simply making the Kill 20 players quest a bit more available around the Keeps instead of back at the home portal Keeps.
If they adjust this, it's entirely possible that the most efficient questing will be in the heat of PvP, which works for me, but it's a make or break. Much of this thread seems to be alarmists saying how it is going to be. But what they have shown is one thing that I've not seen much in MMO's...which is the ability to change. Many MMO developers are so married to their core design, that they aren't willing to change until after they start hemoraging players (I'm sure many of us MMO vets can name a few without much thought). ZOS has shown that they will listen, but in the end made their own decisions based on the facts of what they've seen.
I don't care to much about the end game. For now, I'm excited about the "start game" and think from what I have seen so far, this will be a very adult oriented title. With the games lore and history, I am going to play this one fight, and one story at a time, and am not going to ruin my expectations by competing to the end game.
Play an mmorpg like an rpg, but do it with friends and family, and in most cases it will be a great journey.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I've seen this video before - basically again veteran ranks = forced PvE questing except this time you start in other faction lowbie areas were those level 4 mobs are scaled to 50VR1.
To me this is pretty lame as an AvA player I feel forced to do something I dislike as its the only efficient way of progressing your character - questing.
Why can't we level via AvA and earn veteran ranks again via AvA?
Nerfing XP everywhere except questing = lame.
My 2c.
ESO is such a bipolar game - one one hand they give you this awesome zone to PvP in - and at the same time they force you to progress via PvE which is dull and boring in comparison - again my opinion.
It sounds like your not gonna race to endgame anyway so just get to 10 and level in AVA... I mean what's the big deal if it's slower you can still do it..... Unless your one of the people that has to reach max as fast as possible then yeah, your not gonna wanna do AVA........
I betcha you still level faster in AVA compared to how games use to be......... Seems it's the new thing to be max level in two weeks.......... All these new games seem to be "let's see how fast people can get to max" then quit because there bored..........
Hopefully by the time you get max there will be more stuff to participate in besides just the PVE aspect......
Comments
I think this is great idea. Personally I only play one character throughout a MMORPG (unless alts are required) and I would've missed a lot zones for this game.
Going through these zones with 1 toon as a form of progression is great IMHO and it's not lazy/cheap, it's a SMART use of resources.
Going in stingy on the XP and then easing off is probably a better plan than going profligate, and then tightening up.
Also, PVE players have a ton of competitive options for their entertainment dollars. Folks interested in RvRvR, a lot less so.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Don't forget the PvE Group that wants social experience. We are forced into the single player questing as well. Yes it sucks for PvP player, but it also sucks for PvE guys... and for people liking both.
It is NEVER good to force all player into a single way to advance. And i don't understand WHY in the world they try to. They have other ways coded in, they just block them. Zenimax could offer 3-4 alternative ways of meaninfull advancement and freely choose to only support one.
Also think about the skillpoints as well. It is not just the xp rate. Quite a lot of quests do give out skill points, so you are forced to do them anyways, if you want to get all your skills.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
So you level up to 50 like every other MMO, but when you finally get past all that boring stuff, you have more leveling to do ?
In other words there are no endgame to speak off.... The veteran ranks is exactly the same as just 10 more levels....
I don't care if the leveling is more fun in this game than other MMO's, it's still boring.
You are gonna level up to the cap, and then have nothing at all to do. PvP won't last long.
Obviously, that is not what it is about. Otherwise they would have nerfed XP across the board and included the quest XP gain in the nerf.
Putting open PVP in a PVE centered MMORPG evokes an entire plethora of issues.
(1) Very casual PVE gamers meet pro PVPers. Usually in sports that is prevented by leagues, so a top leage soccer or baseball team never meets some low-level amateur team, because the thrill in sports comes form meeting enemies of the SAME skill level. Now PVP is like a sports, but without leagues. So your amateur team may meet a pro team, and you simply have no chance. In the long turn, it drives the casual gamers away, and if a MMO has PVP as THE endgame, it leaves them with no endgame at all. Unlike in sports, when a pro fights an amateur he accepts a handicap to give the amateur a chance, in MMO-PVP casual gamers get no handicap to support them, either.
(2) By and large PVP combat functions entirely different than PVE, so there are ALWAYS imabalaces. Skills which are cool to have in PVE, but ruin the PVP balance. In games where PVE and PVP both exist, they always nerf the skills to fit into PVP. The PVP always has the dominant influence over how skill are implemented. I never once saw a MMO with both PVE and PVP where a skill was made to improve the PVE combat in ignorance of the PVP, but it was ALWAYS the other way around: the PVE fun and the bend to the PVP fun, despite the fact that in many mixed MMO the vast majority doesn't even play PVP. So simply said, PVP in almost all cases undermines the fun of the PVE experience. A lot of cool and fun skills, spell and attacks you could use in PVE are eliminated or heavily nerfed to fit the PVP balancing.
Especially from this latter fact, I don't see that PVE and PVP mix well at atll. In the early MMOs, Everquest, WoW asf. there WAS no PVP at all, or only in small arenas as a sort of sideline fun. But not as entirely extra sphere of gaming. And tbh I preferred that. In that way there was cool and elaborate PVE with tons of cool abilities, because there was no real need to balance classes, and those who loved PVP played PVP games like Planetside. As it is I nowadays would rather return to the Everquest style pure PVE MMOs. I feel like trying to shoehorn PVP into a PVE MMO is never doing well, and essentially is sucks out a lot of work, manpower and possibilities out of a potentially cool PVE centered MMO. I dunno why it became so popular to shoehorn some PVP into MMOs where most people (IMVPO) won't PVP very much anyway, because a lot of RPG gamers don't even do that.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
In GW 2 this is done throughout the game so essentially you can do the low level content by being scaled down. Not exactly an old idea but it is definitely a cheap one. Makes it easier for them to 'create' content. Didn't everyone love this in GW 2 in fact don't most people powerlevel in Queensdale doing the champ train?
so endgame = mobs that die in 6 hits instead of 3? and your weapon goes from +1 to +2?
and you're happy with that?
rofl what a lame fucking joke.
No, this isn't the same. GW2 works like normal mmos but downlevels you to that particular area.
ESO doesn't have scaling so you'll still outlevel the previous content. In +/++ areas the mobs just get a stat boost to take longer to kill them.
But because each zone gets a veteran rank 1-10, you'll still outlevel even the +/++ content. That is, if the difference in power between vr1 and vr10 is considerable. And if it is, that'll be a nightmare for pvp with Level 50 VR10 players vs boosted low level players. I'd really like some info on rank power.
I'm not happy..
It's just a cheap way to extend the game.. tacked on near the last minute. Not seeing players from the other factions in their own zones is stupid as well. After a few weeks there will be more of the other faction's players playing in your faction's zones.. so they would be their zones, wouldn't they?
Dunno.. I'm just underwhelmed by it. It's like you get to endgame and then all you do is the other factions levelling game?? Makes no sense. It's not endgame, it's just 10 more levels called something else. Endgame is what there is to do when you're Veteran Rank 10, is there anything?
I'm happy with it. I've seen the video before and thought it wasn't endgame the first time I saw it. I know I'll enjoy it!
I dont see how is this "cheap". the entire pve map is devided into 3 part, every character can access to them all but with different order. thats it.
Dont think it as a "reuse", because its actually not, unlike those veteren version dungeons.
For me endgame will be AvA,Craglorn & Crafting..the VR stuff I see it only as leveling process
Why is it that whenever you respond to anyone who has a critiscism of ESO, no matter how valid, you always reply with a thinly veiled insult?
I'ts almost as if you think putting people down makes their complaints less valid.
It makes you look very silly imo.
Why do you do something you do not like? You will be punished sooner or later for having done that, you know that, everyone knows that - and that punishment is nothing external, it is what you have created and then lateron feel as suffering.
So many players do this and then lateron blame the game (ridiculous) that "it" has stolen them life-time. Where they clearly are the ones create their own gaming experience by what they do and not do.
I guess many many individuals have to learn when to say stop and when to go into another direction.
Is just one more option to solo PvE or with friends, maybe to find caft mats etc. but an option, you still have all the Hard mode dungeons, Cyrodil with the AvA, all the caves, and also the daylies quests on the zone. Whart we saw on the vid, is just one more option that the payers have at 50, just that.
Indeed, if this issue upsets you so much, cancelling your pre-order sounds like the best thing you can do.
This aspect of the game is not going to change EVER.
I am not a PvPer but the poster above has a point considering ESO, according to Zenimax and game trailers, is about the 3-faction war. I think that what is happening is that Zenimax doesn't want players to level up too fast in Cyrodiil to avoid some players to control a campaign. I can see many players who dislike the PvE fed ex quests leveling up outside of Cyrodiil, then once they are level 50 they will move to Cyrodiil, where the war is. I don't like much PvP and think it would have been better to leave Cyrodiil PvP as a standalone product. In my opinion PvP is killing the MMORPGs. Remember in the beginning when devs were focusing on Cyrodiil PvP, then later things changed to "we need to make a game that feels more like Elder Scrolls"? And don't get me started with the add-on fiasco, which doesn't affect em as I don't care, but PvPers seems to got the shaft at the end.
Snooze. Simply harder mobs? Thats the endgame?
I'll pass. The story, lore, and adventuring is great. Some of the builds and playstyles aren't too shabby. Crafting is great. Dungeon delving is fun. The rest is sub par.
To be honest id really love to see Preorder Numbers before and after this last patch. Sadly we will never know lol. Some people claim they love it, some claim otherwise...
Anyways, the last of OUR group canceled yesterday, so 8 preorder canceled... wondering how many new preorder they got from people that like sologames and questgrinder tho. At least they are the more vocal peeps haha.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
2 hours before the last beta ended, I made a Dragon Knight on EP. I rushed through the Tutorial, and went straight to the Dwarven something-or-rather...a public Dungeon. I stayed in one room and farmed, seeing how fast I could get to L10 as a test for launch. Mind you, it was constant killing of about 6 spawns and 1 boss (if you've been there, you probably know the exact room I'm referring to). At one time, there were about 12 of us and with the open tapping, none of us were grouped. I made 10 in just under two hours.
On the other side, I had solely quested on a Nightblade earlier in the weekend, and it took me about 3.5-4.
As I understand it, this is exactly why the change was made, so having seen it first hand, I totally understand the reasoning. I spent the majority of the weekend PvPing, so I'd say I'm pretty focused on that. The only issue with the "Kill 20 player" quest is that as far as sustainability, it's more efficient to complete the quest, die quickly, rez and run back. I found myself doing it and racking in the AvA points (1k per turn in). They seem to be aware of this...
http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/20x73q/welcome_to_the_eso_ama/
There are discussions about adding more PVP Quests in Cyrodiil or simply making the Kill 20 players quest a bit more available around the Keeps instead of back at the home portal Keeps.
If they adjust this, it's entirely possible that the most efficient questing will be in the heat of PvP, which works for me, but it's a make or break. Much of this thread seems to be alarmists saying how it is going to be. But what they have shown is one thing that I've not seen much in MMO's...which is the ability to change. Many MMO developers are so married to their core design, that they aren't willing to change until after they start hemoraging players (I'm sure many of us MMO vets can name a few without much thought). ZOS has shown that they will listen, but in the end made their own decisions based on the facts of what they've seen.
I for one find this encouraging.
I don't care to much about the end game. For now, I'm excited about the "start game" and think from what I have seen so far, this will be a very adult oriented title. With the games lore and history, I am going to play this one fight, and one story at a time, and am not going to ruin my expectations by competing to the end game.
Play an mmorpg like an rpg, but do it with friends and family, and in most cases it will be a great journey.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
It sounds like your not gonna race to endgame anyway so just get to 10 and level in AVA... I mean what's the big deal if it's slower you can still do it..... Unless your one of the people that has to reach max as fast as possible then yeah, your not gonna wanna do AVA........
I betcha you still level faster in AVA compared to how games use to be......... Seems it's the new thing to be max level in two weeks.......... All these new games seem to be "let's see how fast people can get to max" then quit because there bored..........
Hopefully by the time you get max there will be more stuff to participate in besides just the PVE aspect......