Originally posted by Ashendari Adventure zones, AvA, Trading and Veteran Dungeons are actually more accurate for endgame content. The OP is just displaying part of the leveling process and im not sure why they are calling it endgame.
Adventure zones will not be out at launch and we don't know when they will come in. Sure it will be one of the first things in there, but you can't really count that yet. I will give you AvA, as that is the primary endgame currently. Trading as an endgame? Isn't that....fishing a little for another bullet point? May as well say chatting with your guild is end game ;P Veteran Dungeons will last you until you have gear, then you will never do them again just like every other game with dungeons. Cool! That is a real change of pace from every other MMO with heroic dungeons....oh wait. I think that they are really grasping at straws if they call anything outside AvA and Veteran Dungeons end game.
I agree though about veteran levels not being end game. Thats like saying the last 10 levels of the game are end game content even though you are still just grinding quests.
Is AvA and Veteran Dungeons with the "promise" of frequent content updates really worth 60$ buy in and 15$ a month? I don't think so. Most F2P type games offer the same amount of content as games like this. The value just isn't there.
It can be considered end game for those that like the story quest grind. I for one am glad this is a part of end game for those that enjoy it or are ES fans who want to solo/duo. Once I reach level 50 and complete my faction story. I will be glad to be able to continue two more times with all level 50+ mobs for both factions I haven't tried yet.
I will be doing dungeons along the way as well as the 6 for end game along with Adventure zones when they come out. The only PvP I will be doing will be planed along with my guild. We will have multiple guilds for different play styles. But we all will come to defend or help attack if called by the PvP focused guild.
But I like that 2 factions will be a part of end game. You will earn end game gear, skill points, continue crafting and dungeon runs. All post level 50, regardless of the VR levels. VR levels are a post level cap progression IMO.
That is all fine and dandy, but what do you do when you finish all that?
Knock down keep doors for 30+ minutes every day endlessly. Maybe run a dungeon here and there, or craft if you're into that. That's about it. Sure, they plan to release content regularly, but in Wildstar, the content is already there and being tested. Considering how soon the two games will be released together, I think I'll save $60, for now, and wait for Wildstar.
Sadly gaming is far too focused on levels and now at end game you once again are not role playing but instead grinding out another number such as Rank 1-10.
Then of course that grind is 100% meaningless unless you think there is some reason you need those few added stats to do what?Pvp?
I think the fact that developers cannot come up with actual ROLE playing content and just focus on levels and the WOWesque term END GAME,is proof alone that we need to lose levels of all kinds.Gaming should not be about a number especially not a ROLE play game.
This is actually a real weak effort,anyone can toss in some more stats into the data base,that would take one guy on their team one hour to code that into the game.This AGAIN spells RUSHED and no thought put into the entire game,just another copy cat grind levels and talk about grinding end game.Then peopel wonder why so much negativity,geesh put some effort into your game design,prove you have a heart felt passion for gaming and are not just a business.
What would that "role playing" end game look like? What do you want to see?
A Sims online type of end game? You buy/take then build your own city/empire? Play card games in a casino? Make up your own language and talk back and forth all game? What are you looking for that is different?
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Originally posted by Ashendari Adventure zones, AvA, Trading and Veteran Dungeons are actually more accurate for endgame content. The OP is just displaying part of the leveling process and im not sure why they are calling it endgame.
Adventure zones will not be out at launch and we don't know when they will come in. Sure it will be one of the first things in there, but you can't really count that yet. I will give you AvA, as that is the primary endgame currently. Trading as an endgame? Isn't that....fishing a little for another bullet point? May as well say chatting with your guild is end game ;P Veteran Dungeons will last you until you have gear, then you will never do them again just like every other game with dungeons. Cool! That is a real change of pace from every other MMO with heroic dungeons....oh wait. I think that they are really grasping at straws if they call anything outside AvA and Veteran Dungeons end game.
I agree though about veteran levels not being end game. Thats like saying the last 10 levels of the game are end game content even though you are still just grinding quests.
Is AvA and Veteran Dungeons with the "promise" of frequent content updates really worth 60$ buy in and 15$ a month? I don't think so. Most F2P type games offer the same amount of content as games like this. The value just isn't there.
It can be considered end game for those that like the story quest grind. I for one am glad this is a part of end game for those that enjoy it or are ES fans who want to solo/duo. Once I reach level 50 and complete my faction story. I will be glad to be able to continue two more times with all level 50+ mobs for both factions I haven't tried yet.
I will be doing dungeons along the way as well as the 6 for end game along with Adventure zones when they come out. The only PvP I will be doing will be planed along with my guild. We will have multiple guilds for different play styles. But we all will come to defend or help attack if called by the PvP focused guild.
But I like that 2 factions will be a part of end game. You will earn end game gear, skill points, continue crafting and dungeon runs. All post level 50, regardless of the VR levels. VR levels are a post level cap progression IMO.
That is all fine and dandy, but what do you do when you finish all that?
Knock down keep doors for 30+ minutes every day endlessly. Maybe run a dungeon here and there, or craft if you're into that. That's about it. Sure, they plan to release content regularly, but in Wildstar, the content is already there and being tested. Considering how soon the two games will be released together, I think I'll save $60, for now, and wait for Wildstar.
I'm happy for those that will enjoy Wildstar, but I can't even stand to watch the videos. That is just not an option I could ever even consider. But that's why they make different games. People have many different tastes and there are many MMO's in production or existing just for that reason.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
"Knock down keep doors for 30+ minutes every day endlessly. Maybe run a dungeon here and there, or craft if you're into that. That's about it. Sure, they plan to release content regularly, but in Wildstar, the content is already there and being tested. Considering how soon the two games will be released together, I think I'll save $60, for now, and wait for Wildstar."
Something about that very sentence that kinda makes me Wonder A Lot about the Longevity of ESO as a longstanding title in the AAA game. I simply Dont think people after a while about 4-6 months of Playing Cyrodiil are going to be having fun anymore looking at the "Same map, Same keeps, Same Chokepoints, Same people, Same competition, Same guilds, same players, Every day for months and months.
I really think the Cyrodiil PvP will be great untill people start getting sick of seeing that map, those keeps, and the same stuff over and over.
With a super recycled tactic of "Now go to level one of that faction and quest, the whole game over again" the end game is looking pretty repetitive and unpromising.
"they will add more content "THEY PROMISED"! - my answer to that is that weve seen this CLAIM before from AAA titles, i dont care what you say but SWTOR said "new shit every month" and not TILL AFTER the game flopped did they start SLOWLY releasing shit to try and save the games current sub base. so many games have promised "Updates every month all the time, and then it never seems to happen even if initial sales are good.
I was going to instantly buy ESO, and now the more i think about having to QUEST ONLY, and how annoying it was to even quest to 10 in beta for me, i might wait a while to see how this pans out for real.
Cyrodiil is fun but im saying that the months to come will see people bored of the same map over and over.
"Knock down keep doors for 30+ minutes every day endlessly. Maybe run a dungeon here and there, or craft if you're into that. That's about it. Sure, they plan to release content regularly, but in Wildstar, the content is already there and being tested. Considering how soon the two games will be released together, I think I'll save $60, for now, and wait for Wildstar."
Something about that very sentence that kinda makes me Wonder A Lot about the Longevity of ESO as a longstanding title in the AAA game. I simply Dont think people after a while about 4-6 months of Playing Cyrodiil are going to be having fun anymore looking at the "Same map, Same keeps, Same Chokepoints, Same people, Same competition, Same guilds, same players, Every day for months and months.
I really think the Cyrodiil PvP will be great untill people start getting sick of seeing that map, those keeps, and the same stuff over and over.
With a super recycled tactic of "Now go to level one of that faction and quest, the whole game over again" the end game is looking pretty repetitive and unpromising.
"they will add more content "THEY PROMISED"! - my answer to that is that weve seen this CLAIM before from AAA titles, i dont care what you say but SWTOR said "new shit every month" and not TILL AFTER the game flopped did they start SLOWLY releasing shit to try and save the games current sub base. so many games have promised "Updates every month all the time, and then it never seems to happen even if initial sales are good.
I was going to instantly buy ESO, and now the more i think about having to QUEST ONLY, and how annoying it was to even quest to 10 in beta for me, i might wait a while to see how this pans out for real.
Cyrodiil is fun but im saying that the months to come will see people bored of the same map over and over.
The horrible symmetry of the map and the lack of meaningful secondary objectives is going to eat into the longevity of AvA. I know why they did it but I think a map with more character would have served them better over time.
Originally posted by Distopia Again a person who doesn't seem to consider the whole game when talking about XP.First welcome to the sub conundrum, they need to keep players, that's the chief reason behind this disparity, if it were F2P or B2P this wouldn't be as much of an issue. PVP oriented players are kinda covered in this regard, at least as much as can be expected for a themepark game at launch.ON the other hand PVE content always becomes an issue as far as retention is concerned (more so at launch), hence why many still prefer the EQ method of setting you back during your progression. It fleshes out the journey for them.IF all xp was equal the person doing all forms of content would out-level the content, they'd finish the game (what's there) too fast. We've seen this time and time and time again.Does this suck for some playstyles? I'm sure it does. Does it make sense why they're doing it the way they are? Yes it does.
The reason why people clear the content is because it's a themepark and due to this there is only a finite amount of things to do before the developers release new content. Instead of embracing this and just let the players choose their own way through the elements they enjoy, the developers decided they should railroad all players into a set and rigorous path. I know why the did it ofcourse, subscriptions, but that doesn't make me find it very elegant or even rational.
What I don't get is why they don't see that it's not a problem allowing the PvP players to get to max level in the form of gaming they prefer, i.e. PvP because they are the playergroup that needs the least new content. The PvP crowd wants the multiplayer experience, they consider other players the most important part of their fun. So for them it's a huge deal that not only themselves but also every other potential PvP player is forced through hoops they don't enjoy.
PvE players in a themepark like ESO require enormous amounts of development time as they need zones, dungeons, quests, and multitudes of other elements as they do not consider other players a beneficial part of their gaming experience outside of the mandatory set of players needed for the scripted closed-off instanced content. That's the themepark dynamic and instead of learning from all the scores of previous themepark MMOs that has been released the last ten years, ESO seems determined to make the same mistakes made previously.
"Knock down keep doors for 30+ minutes every day endlessly. Maybe run a dungeon here and there, or craft if you're into that. That's about it. Sure, they plan to release content regularly, but in Wildstar, the content is already there and being tested. Considering how soon the two games will be released together, I think I'll save $60, for now, and wait for Wildstar."
Something about that very sentence that kinda makes me Wonder A Lot about the Longevity of ESO as a longstanding title in the AAA game. I simply Dont think people after a while about 4-6 months of Playing Cyrodiil are going to be having fun anymore looking at the "Same map, Same keeps, Same Chokepoints, Same people, Same competition, Same guilds, same players, Every day for months and months.
I really think the Cyrodiil PvP will be great untill people start getting sick of seeing that map, those keeps, and the same stuff over and over.
With a super recycled tactic of "Now go to level one of that faction and quest, the whole game over again" the end game is looking pretty repetitive and unpromising.
"they will add more content "THEY PROMISED"! - my answer to that is that weve seen this CLAIM before from AAA titles, i dont care what you say but SWTOR said "new shit every month" and not TILL AFTER the game flopped did they start SLOWLY releasing shit to try and save the games current sub base. so many games have promised "Updates every month all the time, and then it never seems to happen even if initial sales are good.
I was going to instantly buy ESO, and now the more i think about having to QUEST ONLY, and how annoying it was to even quest to 10 in beta for me, i might wait a while to see how this pans out for real.
Cyrodiil is fun but im saying that the months to come will see people bored of the same map over and over.
Well considering how GW2 WvW had the same map for release and the top tiers servers played against each other for months (only recently the udnerdog server collapsed on itself), the only big change to WvW is the edge of the mists map that has no influence over the other 4 maps so it's just an "overflow" server. I think Cyrodiil got some longevity on it, you can switch campaigns or guest if you wish, only if you want to play on another side that you need to make another character.
Visiting the other alliances pve zones is a good idea for me, they put a lot of effort on these quests, better make them more usefull for all players regardless of alliance. Right now all we can do is wait for Craglorn, until then, each to it's own end-game. If you don't like questing, well this game isn't the best for you, but everyone says questing gets gradually better after lvl10.
Edit: Knocking keeps door for 30+ minutes only happens if the enemy is being stupid and not defending properly, also we only experienced beta with no organized groups or a meta going on
I've seen this video before - basically again veteran ranks = forced PvE questing except this time you start in other faction lowbie areas were those level 4 mobs are scaled to 50VR1.
To me this is pretty lame as an AvA player I feel forced to do something I dislike as its the only efficient way of progressing your character - questing.
You can get veteran ranks through AvA so that complaint is moot.
About the VR system, I think it is better than the system in most themepark MMORPGs. Most MMOs die when people hit max level quickly and have nothing to do. ESO gated how long you hit "max level" in. Now you might look at that as a negative, but the developers have to make a choice. Either that or let people reach max level in 2 days and have nothing to do. Or gate max level with a system like Paragon in D3.
People are more likely to quit if they have nothing to do. Than if they have too much to do.
I see little difference between veteran ranks and just slapping on another 10 levels (or however many veteran ranks there are) so I'm having trouble seeing it as "endgame", unless you count 1-50 endgame.
I'm looking forward to hitting up the veteran faction areas and having a whole new set of places to explore. Since there are only 10 veteran ranks it should be feasible just to go wherever the hell I want within reason. I know from the Daggerfall maps that they are fairly large.
The veteran rank quest boss instances will probably be a good challenge and I'll still be grabbing chests and loot wherever I wander off to.
This is a much better system than hitting 50 and having the other 2 factions being pointless since you outlevel all of them and theres no reason to go there except some yawnfest map points to gather as you steamroll everything.
I don't have a problem with this at all. It's another option. If you're still an alt-o-holic you can go do something else to rank up. If you like to dump all of your playtime into 1 character, it's great because you can experience all of the content without rolling an alt.
I don't see what all the fuss is about, other than people wanting to find something to fuss about.
Originally posted by dlld I see little difference between veteran ranks and just slapping on another 10 levels (or however many veteran ranks there are) so I'm having trouble seeing it as "endgame", unless you count 1-50 endgame.
VR's are more like hell levels. there are only 10 of them an it takes two times the amount of content to complete them than it took you to get 1-50
its just their version of alternate advancement that we have seen in other mmo's in the past except with a ceiling.
i don't think they ever intended to do this until people made a huge deal about not getting to explore the entire world with their one main character.
now people bitch and complain when they let you? LOL
i think the real end game is the pvp and the adventure zones.
Originally posted by Ashendari Adventure zones, AvA, Trading and Veteran Dungeons are actually more accurate for endgame content. The OP is just displaying part of the leveling process and im not sure why they are calling it endgame.
Adventure zones will not be out at launch and we don't know when they will come in. Sure it will be one of the first things in there, but you can't really count that yet. I will give you AvA, as that is the primary endgame currently. Trading as an endgame? Isn't that....fishing a little for another bullet point? May as well say chatting with your guild is end game ;P Veteran Dungeons will last you until you have gear, then you will never do them again just like every other game with dungeons. Cool! That is a real change of pace from every other MMO with heroic dungeons....oh wait. I think that they are really grasping at straws if they call anything outside AvA and Veteran Dungeons end game.
I agree though about veteran levels not being end game. Thats like saying the last 10 levels of the game are end game content even though you are still just grinding quests.
Is AvA and Veteran Dungeons with the "promise" of frequent content updates really worth 60$ buy in and 15$ a month? I don't think so. Most F2P type games offer the same amount of content as games like this. The value just isn't there.
It can be considered end game for those that like the story quest grind. I for one am glad this is a part of end game for those that enjoy it or are ES fans who want to solo/duo. Once I reach level 50 and complete my faction story. I will be glad to be able to continue two more times with all level 50+ mobs for both factions I haven't tried yet.
I will be doing dungeons along the way as well as the 6 for end game along with Adventure zones when they come out. The only PvP I will be doing will be planed along with my guild. We will have multiple guilds for different play styles. But we all will come to defend or help attack if called by the PvP focused guild.
But I like that 2 factions will be a part of end game. You will earn end game gear, skill points, continue crafting and dungeon runs. All post level 50, regardless of the VR levels. VR levels are a post level cap progression IMO.
That is all fine and dandy, but what do you do when you finish all that?
I hope that they keep to their 4 to 6 week updates. New adventure zones, new skill lines with the Thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood. Along with the justice system. Hopefully they open the Imperial city for a darkness falls type of dungeon for both PvE and PvP in the same area. New story zones and eventually new VR levels along with skills and so on.
If they do not continue to update as a sub MMO should do, then yes, I will run out of things to do over time. But for the next few months, I will have a lot do to and am willing to pay for it. I may end up going more and more PvP with my guild if things go well. Only time will tell, but I am still glad that I get to run all three factions on one character and continue to progress along the way.
While this is probably the most reasonable reason to keep playing after you are done...what reason do you have to believe that they will keep up with these updates, and that they will provide you with enough content? The game isn't out yet and all we have seen so far is promises, promises which can easily be broken by a company that we have no reason whatsoever to trust. I just can't justify playing a game based on hopes of a better future / promises. There are simply too many other quality games and MMOs out there to play that have already given me things I want to see.
I just think that some people who are putting their faith in an untested company to develop a really high quality game just because it has a big license attached to it might be in for a rude awakening. Hell, adventure zones are supposed to be a bulk of the PvE endgame and we barely know anything about them....and they won't be in at launch. That kind of stuff was barely acceptable 10 years ago in MMOs; there is no way in hell it is now.
The main problem is what next? All this stuff may or may not sound great depending on your opinion. But once you reach VR 10 and have seen and done all the developed content and have maxed out and learned all the crafting then what?
It doesnt look like there is anything to do after that ,and we really dont know how long doing that first set of 'achievements' will even take. Might take a couple months, might take six. Still not a long time in the grand scheme.
Adventure zones? They look to be an after thought and they surely arent going to be in depth enough to keep from being extremely repetitive, especially since they already said they have daily repeatable quests and anyone who has played any MMO knows what those are and what a grind they are.
So is it PvP then? What if you dont want to PvP? Or your in a campaign that is getting dominated and no one goes in for your faction, or you dominate and no ne goes in for any of the other factions? (its going to happen in most campaigns I suspect)
Without any sort of RP or player created options for 'end game' there wont be an end game. They wont be able to come close to developing content fast enough that people wont chew up and sit out in a day or two. Then be sitting around waiting for another 2 months for the next update to come around.
Shelf life and longevity of this game is extremely limited.
The main problem is what next? All this stuff may or may not sound great depending on your opinion. But once you reach VR 10 and have seen and done all the developed content and have maxed out and learned all the crafting then what?
This is the question that remains when all is said and done. At least for those the PVP end-game doesn't cover. The ball falls in Zenimax's hands here, and to the hands of fate... That's when the ultimate question of resubbing comes to bare. My answer? Dunno.. I'll be PVping..as long as I'm still having fun doing so.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Ashendari Adventure zones, AvA, Trading and Veteran Dungeons are actually more accurate for endgame content. The OP is just displaying part of the leveling process and im not sure why they are calling it endgame.
Adventure zones will not be out at launch and we don't know when they will come in. Sure it will be one of the first things in there, but you can't really count that yet. I will give you AvA, as that is the primary endgame currently. Trading as an endgame? Isn't that....fishing a little for another bullet point? May as well say chatting with your guild is end game ;P Veteran Dungeons will last you until you have gear, then you will never do them again just like every other game with dungeons. Cool! That is a real change of pace from every other MMO with heroic dungeons....oh wait. I think that they are really grasping at straws if they call anything outside AvA and Veteran Dungeons end game.
I agree though about veteran levels not being end game. Thats like saying the last 10 levels of the game are end game content even though you are still just grinding quests.
Is AvA and Veteran Dungeons with the "promise" of frequent content updates really worth 60$ buy in and 15$ a month? I don't think so. Most F2P type games offer the same amount of content as games like this. The value just isn't there.
It can be considered end game for those that like the story quest grind. I for one am glad this is a part of end game for those that enjoy it or are ES fans who want to solo/duo. Once I reach level 50 and complete my faction story. I will be glad to be able to continue two more times with all level 50+ mobs for both factions I haven't tried yet.
I will be doing dungeons along the way as well as the 6 for end game along with Adventure zones when they come out. The only PvP I will be doing will be planed along with my guild. We will have multiple guilds for different play styles. But we all will come to defend or help attack if called by the PvP focused guild.
But I like that 2 factions will be a part of end game. You will earn end game gear, skill points, continue crafting and dungeon runs. All post level 50, regardless of the VR levels. VR levels are a post level cap progression IMO.
That is all fine and dandy, but what do you do when you finish all that?
I hope that they keep to their 4 to 6 week updates. New adventure zones, new skill lines with the Thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood. Along with the justice system. Hopefully they open the Imperial city for a darkness falls type of dungeon for both PvE and PvP in the same area. New story zones and eventually new VR levels along with skills and so on.
If they do not continue to update as a sub MMO should do, then yes, I will run out of things to do over time. But for the next few months, I will have a lot do to and am willing to pay for it. I may end up going more and more PvP with my guild if things go well. Only time will tell, but I am still glad that I get to run all three factions on one character and continue to progress along the way.
While this is probably the most reasonable reason to keep playing after you are done...what reason do you have to believe that they will keep up with these updates, and that they will provide you with enough content? The game isn't out yet and all we have seen so far is promises, promises which can easily be broken by a company that we have no reason whatsoever to trust. I just can't justify playing a game based on hopes of a better future / promises. There are simply too many other quality games and MMOs out there to play that have already given me things I want to see.
I just think that some people who are putting their faith in an untested company to develop a really high quality game just because it has a big license attached to it might be in for a rude awakening. Hell, adventure zones are supposed to be a bulk of the PvE endgame and we barely know anything about them....and they won't be in at launch. That kind of stuff was barely acceptable 10 years ago in MMOs; there is no way in hell it is now.
I'm sorry but I don't base my entertainment on a what if question. I only care about one thing, having fun. I had fun in the betas and expect to continue next Sunday. If we all decided to not do something because it requires putting faith in others. We would all just stay inside and not do anything at all. Because everything you do everyday requires faith in others.
Just driving down the street requires faith that other drivers won't run into you. Or faith in a Doctor, Pilot, bus driver, farmer, police man or what ever. I will just simply play the game and get my moneys worth of fun. If that ends at some point, I will make a decision as to what to do then. I haven't lost anything because I was entertained.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Marketing at its best. Tell people level 50 is the cap, and they have 10 more BONUS levels via PvP, is somehow some innovative miracle.
Tell people the level cap is 60, but the final 10 have to be done by PvP? MMO poison.
People are kinda loopy.
But full disclosure, the game isn't for me. Obviously, Fallout is one of my favorite game franchises of all time, but if they make an online version with the philosophy of this one, I'm not a buyer. And that's ok.
Enjoy your game, folks! It's my hope that if you find what you want here, you won't be trying to change the games I like. And better yet, stop bitching about how companies won't make the game you want to play.
ESO is such a bipolar game - one one hand they give you this awesome zone to PvP in - and at the same time they force you to progress via PvE which is dull and boring in comparison - again my opinion.
Where was that "awesome zone to PvP"?
I must have pressed the wrong button, cause all i saw was a single map, totally disconnected from the rest of the world, with huge (empty) distances to travel each time you died. Just like GW2's WvW.
Originally posted by Droosteel Since when are last few levels in a MMO called "endgame"?
This ^^
Zeni can forget trying to sell me the last 10 levels as "endgame", that's nonsense. This is Legacy Ranks (SWTOR) / Renown Ranks (WAR) etc all over again.
60 is max/capped level in this game. What happens for me at PvE endgame AFTER I reach VR10?
What/where is the PvE endgame? This is the most important question for me as I am a 70% PvE / 30% PvP kind of player. As far as I can tell there is no endgame for me when I don't want to PvP
Originally posted by Droosteel Since when are last few levels in a MMO called "endgame"?
This ^^
Zeni can forget trying to sell me the last 10 levels as "endgame", that's nonsense. This is Legacy Ranks (SWTOR) / Renown Ranks (WAR) etc all over again.
60 is max/capped level in this game. What happens for me at PvE endgame AFTER I reach VR10?
What/where is the PvE endgame? This is the most important question for me as I am a 70% PvE / 30% PvP kind of player. As far as I can tell there is no endgame for me when I don't want to PvP
If you don't try to do alts (no reason to anyway) you do the other 2 factions, so you get the quest lines from them at a higher difficulty and have 2 more entire Alliance areas to explore. Adventure zones (1 month after launch, Craglorn)... veteran difficulty dungeons and throw in that 30% PvP and you have a lot more than other games give you for endgame and raising me some horsies.
Originally posted by Droosteel Since when are last few levels in a MMO called "endgame"?
This ^^
Zeni can forget trying to sell me the last 10 levels as "endgame", that's nonsense. This is Legacy Ranks (SWTOR) / Renown Ranks (WAR) etc all over again.
60 is max/capped level in this game. What happens for me at PvE endgame AFTER I reach VR10?
What/where is the PvE endgame? This is the most important question for me as I am a 70% PvE / 30% PvP kind of player. As far as I can tell there is no endgame for me when I don't want to PvP
If you don't try to do alts (no reason to anyway) you do the other 2 factions, so you get the quest lines from them at a higher difficulty and have 2 more entire Alliance areas to explore. Adventure zones (1 month after launch, Craglorn)... veteran difficulty dungeons and throw in that 30% PvP and you have a lot more than other games give you for endgame and raising me some horsies.
To answer Patchez. there is no PvE endgame, the first part of it is Adventure Zones, which come post launch.
If you don't try to do alts (no reason to anyway) you do the other 2 factions, so you get the quest lines from them at a higher difficulty and have 2 more entire Alliance areas to explore. Adventure zones (1 month after launch, Craglorn)... veteran difficulty dungeons and throw in that 30% PvP and you have a lot more than other games give you for endgame and raising me some horsies.
Huh? This game is going to be released with the least 'end game' content of any game since AoC. Basically because neither of them had any.
Scaling content that already exists is a joke, and if the game didnt have so many other major problems people would be burying the game for that little fact. If you call end game content something another alliance can do at level 12 that you can do as a 'visiting' faction at level 50 then you dont know what end game content is.
Also these adventures zones that people are waiting on, look like more instanced crap with daily repeatables. Every game has those as well. I suspect the other games will do them better also.
This game is being released in beta and half finished and theyre hoping they can put out content soon enough after launch that they can beat people before they reach a level they figure out there is nothing to do. Just like AoC did actually.
Like I said this would be a major topic if the game ran right and performed well and didnt have a thousand bugs. But since it has those things too this stuff gets lost in the shuffle.
If you don't try to do alts (no reason to anyway) you do the other 2 factions, so you get the quest lines from them at a higher difficulty and have 2 more entire Alliance areas to explore. Adventure zones (1 month after launch, Craglorn)... veteran difficulty dungeons and throw in that 30% PvP and you have a lot more than other games give you for endgame and raising me some horsies.
Huh? This game is going to be released with the least 'end game' content of any game since AoC. Basically because neither of them had any.
Scaling content that already exists is a joke, and if the game didnt have so many other major problems people would be burying the game for that little fact. If you call end game content something another alliance can do at level 12 that you can do as a 'visiting' faction at level 50 then you dont know what end game content is.
Also these adventures zones that people are waiting on, look like more instanced crap with daily repeatables. Every game has those as well. I suspect the other games will do them better also.
This game is being released in beta and half finished and theyre hoping they can put out content soon enough after launch that they can beat people before they reach a level they figure out there is nothing to do. Just like AoC did actually.
Like I said this would be a major topic if the game ran right and performed well and didnt have a thousand bugs. But since it has those things too this stuff gets lost in the shuffle.
Even with this twisted logic if you won't include the 50+ and 50++ as end game with your thinking, then you have to then say that the amount of content between level 1 to the end of 50++ is enormous. Saying otherwise basically means you are just trolling. Regardless, the dungeons at the Veteran Ranks expand and aren't just reiterations of what you did between level 1-50 so you are forgetting that point too. Adventure zones ARE NOT the ridiculous generalized way in which you framed them. I think the following article sums it up pretty well in my eyes. If you can't find enough things to do at level 50, then can't help you because it will be only you with this problem.
In many MMO games player has nothing to do after reaching maximum level. All quests are completed, all dungeons are visited, PvP and PvE is not attractive any more… But it is not about Elder Scrolls Online. When the general quest line is completed and the maximum level is reached the second part of the game starts. This part is even more interesting than the first one.
Real PvP starts after 50th level
To be honest, real PvP starts after your character reaches maximum level. That’s because you have a lot of strong abilities and spells that you can use in battle. Your abilities are morphed and your character has enough stamina, health and manna to perform well in Cyrodiil. Moreover your gear at the highest level is also good and thus you chances to win are high. Your character is ready to meet enemies. You can have a lot of fun fighting against other alliances in AvA war after reaching highest level.
Top Level Items Crafting
Crafting is a very important part of Elder Scrolls Online. Your character can start mastering any crafting profession at low levels and all crafted items are useful at any level. But Top level items can be crafted after you become a real master in your profession. There are top level items that can be received through crafting only. You can create top level armor and weapons; you can enchant your gear making it even better. Crafting at high levels is very interesting and beneficial.
Adventure Zones (Dungeons)
Adventure zones are very similar to traditional raids. You enter the zone and become a part of an interesting story. You can receive great rewards there and have a lot of fun. When you finish your faction’s zones you can go to other factions’ zones and do quests there. Each faction has about 150 hours of dungeon questing!
Master Dungeons
Elder Scrolls Online has very interesting dungeon system. When you play the game at level 1 – 49 you visit different dungeons and complete different quests there. But as soon as you reach 50th level you can return to the dungeon that was already visited by you at a lower level. You will find new areas available for exploration there and new quests to take. You will see how your previous actions influenced the situation and you will be able to continue adventures there. It will be a new dungeon where you will have new gameplay experience!
As you can see Elder Scrolls Online has a lot of End Game Content. The game is divided into 2 main parts: below 50th level and after the 50th level is reached. Both parts are interesting and you will definitely have a lot to do after the maximum level is reached.
Comments
Knock down keep doors for 30+ minutes every day endlessly. Maybe run a dungeon here and there, or craft if you're into that. That's about it. Sure, they plan to release content regularly, but in Wildstar, the content is already there and being tested. Considering how soon the two games will be released together, I think I'll save $60, for now, and wait for Wildstar.
What would that "role playing" end game look like? What do you want to see?
A Sims online type of end game? You buy/take then build your own city/empire? Play card games in a casino? Make up your own language and talk back and forth all game? What are you looking for that is different?
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
I'm happy for those that will enjoy Wildstar, but I can't even stand to watch the videos. That is just not an option I could ever even consider. But that's why they make different games. People have many different tastes and there are many MMO's in production or existing just for that reason.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Something about that very sentence that kinda makes me Wonder A Lot about the Longevity of ESO as a longstanding title in the AAA game. I simply Dont think people after a while about 4-6 months of Playing Cyrodiil are going to be having fun anymore looking at the "Same map, Same keeps, Same Chokepoints, Same people, Same competition, Same guilds, same players, Every day for months and months.
I really think the Cyrodiil PvP will be great untill people start getting sick of seeing that map, those keeps, and the same stuff over and over.
With a super recycled tactic of "Now go to level one of that faction and quest, the whole game over again" the end game is looking pretty repetitive and unpromising.
"they will add more content "THEY PROMISED"! - my answer to that is that weve seen this CLAIM before from AAA titles, i dont care what you say but SWTOR said "new shit every month" and not TILL AFTER the game flopped did they start SLOWLY releasing shit to try and save the games current sub base. so many games have promised "Updates every month all the time, and then it never seems to happen even if initial sales are good.
I was going to instantly buy ESO, and now the more i think about having to QUEST ONLY, and how annoying it was to even quest to 10 in beta for me, i might wait a while to see how this pans out for real.
Cyrodiil is fun but im saying that the months to come will see people bored of the same map over and over.
if you need to play alts to make up for the lack of content in a mmo, there is something really wrong with a mmo.
Then again, that's the curse of a sandbox mmo, linear and boring till the end.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
The horrible symmetry of the map and the lack of meaningful secondary objectives is going to eat into the longevity of AvA. I know why they did it but I think a map with more character would have served them better over time.
What I don't get is why they don't see that it's not a problem allowing the PvP players to get to max level in the form of gaming they prefer, i.e. PvP because they are the playergroup that needs the least new content. The PvP crowd wants the multiplayer experience, they consider other players the most important part of their fun. So for them it's a huge deal that not only themselves but also every other potential PvP player is forced through hoops they don't enjoy.
PvE players in a themepark like ESO require enormous amounts of development time as they need zones, dungeons, quests, and multitudes of other elements as they do not consider other players a beneficial part of their gaming experience outside of the mandatory set of players needed for the scripted closed-off instanced content. That's the themepark dynamic and instead of learning from all the scores of previous themepark MMOs that has been released the last ten years, ESO seems determined to make the same mistakes made previously.
Well considering how GW2 WvW had the same map for release and the top tiers servers played against each other for months (only recently the udnerdog server collapsed on itself), the only big change to WvW is the edge of the mists map that has no influence over the other 4 maps so it's just an "overflow" server. I think Cyrodiil got some longevity on it, you can switch campaigns or guest if you wish, only if you want to play on another side that you need to make another character.
Visiting the other alliances pve zones is a good idea for me, they put a lot of effort on these quests, better make them more usefull for all players regardless of alliance. Right now all we can do is wait for Craglorn, until then, each to it's own end-game. If you don't like questing, well this game isn't the best for you, but everyone says questing gets gradually better after lvl10.
Edit: Knocking keeps door for 30+ minutes only happens if the enemy is being stupid and not defending properly, also we only experienced beta with no organized groups or a meta going on
You can get veteran ranks through AvA so that complaint is moot.
About the VR system, I think it is better than the system in most themepark MMORPGs. Most MMOs die when people hit max level quickly and have nothing to do. ESO gated how long you hit "max level" in. Now you might look at that as a negative, but the developers have to make a choice. Either that or let people reach max level in 2 days and have nothing to do. Or gate max level with a system like Paragon in D3.
People are more likely to quit if they have nothing to do. Than if they have too much to do.
I'm looking forward to hitting up the veteran faction areas and having a whole new set of places to explore. Since there are only 10 veteran ranks it should be feasible just to go wherever the hell I want within reason. I know from the Daggerfall maps that they are fairly large.
The veteran rank quest boss instances will probably be a good challenge and I'll still be grabbing chests and loot wherever I wander off to.
This is a much better system than hitting 50 and having the other 2 factions being pointless since you outlevel all of them and theres no reason to go there except some yawnfest map points to gather as you steamroll everything.
I don't have a problem with this at all. It's another option. If you're still an alt-o-holic you can go do something else to rank up. If you like to dump all of your playtime into 1 character, it's great because you can experience all of the content without rolling an alt.
I don't see what all the fuss is about, other than people wanting to find something to fuss about.
VR's are more like hell levels. there are only 10 of them an it takes two times the amount of content to complete them than it took you to get 1-50
its just their version of alternate advancement that we have seen in other mmo's in the past except with a ceiling.
i don't think they ever intended to do this until people made a huge deal about not getting to explore the entire world with their one main character.
now people bitch and complain when they let you? LOL
i think the real end game is the pvp and the adventure zones.
While this is probably the most reasonable reason to keep playing after you are done...what reason do you have to believe that they will keep up with these updates, and that they will provide you with enough content? The game isn't out yet and all we have seen so far is promises, promises which can easily be broken by a company that we have no reason whatsoever to trust. I just can't justify playing a game based on hopes of a better future / promises. There are simply too many other quality games and MMOs out there to play that have already given me things I want to see.
I just think that some people who are putting their faith in an untested company to develop a really high quality game just because it has a big license attached to it might be in for a rude awakening. Hell, adventure zones are supposed to be a bulk of the PvE endgame and we barely know anything about them....and they won't be in at launch. That kind of stuff was barely acceptable 10 years ago in MMOs; there is no way in hell it is now.
The main problem is what next? All this stuff may or may not sound great depending on your opinion. But once you reach VR 10 and have seen and done all the developed content and have maxed out and learned all the crafting then what?
It doesnt look like there is anything to do after that ,and we really dont know how long doing that first set of 'achievements' will even take. Might take a couple months, might take six. Still not a long time in the grand scheme.
Adventure zones? They look to be an after thought and they surely arent going to be in depth enough to keep from being extremely repetitive, especially since they already said they have daily repeatable quests and anyone who has played any MMO knows what those are and what a grind they are.
So is it PvP then? What if you dont want to PvP? Or your in a campaign that is getting dominated and no one goes in for your faction, or you dominate and no ne goes in for any of the other factions? (its going to happen in most campaigns I suspect)
Without any sort of RP or player created options for 'end game' there wont be an end game. They wont be able to come close to developing content fast enough that people wont chew up and sit out in a day or two. Then be sitting around waiting for another 2 months for the next update to come around.
Shelf life and longevity of this game is extremely limited.
This is the question that remains when all is said and done. At least for those the PVP end-game doesn't cover. The ball falls in Zenimax's hands here, and to the hands of fate... That's when the ultimate question of resubbing comes to bare. My answer? Dunno.. I'll be PVping..as long as I'm still having fun doing so.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm sorry but I don't base my entertainment on a what if question. I only care about one thing, having fun. I had fun in the betas and expect to continue next Sunday. If we all decided to not do something because it requires putting faith in others. We would all just stay inside and not do anything at all. Because everything you do everyday requires faith in others.
Just driving down the street requires faith that other drivers won't run into you. Or faith in a Doctor, Pilot, bus driver, farmer, police man or what ever. I will just simply play the game and get my moneys worth of fun. If that ends at some point, I will make a decision as to what to do then. I haven't lost anything because I was entertained.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
If that floats your boat.
Marketing at its best. Tell people level 50 is the cap, and they have 10 more BONUS levels via PvP, is somehow some innovative miracle.
Tell people the level cap is 60, but the final 10 have to be done by PvP? MMO poison.
People are kinda loopy.
But full disclosure, the game isn't for me. Obviously, Fallout is one of my favorite game franchises of all time, but if they make an online version with the philosophy of this one, I'm not a buyer. And that's ok.
Enjoy your game, folks! It's my hope that if you find what you want here, you won't be trying to change the games I like. And better yet, stop bitching about how companies won't make the game you want to play.
Where was that "awesome zone to PvP"?
I must have pressed the wrong button, cause all i saw was a single map, totally disconnected from the rest of the world, with huge (empty) distances to travel each time you died. Just like GW2's WvW.
This ^^
Zeni can forget trying to sell me the last 10 levels as "endgame", that's nonsense. This is Legacy Ranks (SWTOR) / Renown Ranks (WAR) etc all over again.
60 is max/capped level in this game. What happens for me at PvE endgame AFTER I reach VR10?
What/where is the PvE endgame? This is the most important question for me as I am a 70% PvE / 30% PvP kind of player. As far as I can tell there is no endgame for me when I don't want to PvP
If you don't try to do alts (no reason to anyway) you do the other 2 factions, so you get the quest lines from them at a higher difficulty and have 2 more entire Alliance areas to explore. Adventure zones (1 month after launch, Craglorn)... veteran difficulty dungeons and throw in that 30% PvP and you have a lot more than other games give you for endgame and raising me some horsies.
To answer Patchez. there is no PvE endgame, the first part of it is Adventure Zones, which come post launch.
Huh? This game is going to be released with the least 'end game' content of any game since AoC. Basically because neither of them had any.
Scaling content that already exists is a joke, and if the game didnt have so many other major problems people would be burying the game for that little fact. If you call end game content something another alliance can do at level 12 that you can do as a 'visiting' faction at level 50 then you dont know what end game content is.
Also these adventures zones that people are waiting on, look like more instanced crap with daily repeatables. Every game has those as well. I suspect the other games will do them better also.
This game is being released in beta and half finished and theyre hoping they can put out content soon enough after launch that they can beat people before they reach a level they figure out there is nothing to do. Just like AoC did actually.
Like I said this would be a major topic if the game ran right and performed well and didnt have a thousand bugs. But since it has those things too this stuff gets lost in the shuffle.
Even with this twisted logic if you won't include the 50+ and 50++ as end game with your thinking, then you have to then say that the amount of content between level 1 to the end of 50++ is enormous. Saying otherwise basically means you are just trolling. Regardless, the dungeons at the Veteran Ranks expand and aren't just reiterations of what you did between level 1-50 so you are forgetting that point too. Adventure zones ARE NOT the ridiculous generalized way in which you framed them. I think the following article sums it up pretty well in my eyes. If you can't find enough things to do at level 50, then can't help you because it will be only you with this problem.
http://elderscrollsonline.info/end-game-content
In many MMO games player has nothing to do after reaching maximum level. All quests are completed, all dungeons are visited, PvP and PvE is not attractive any more… But it is not about Elder Scrolls Online. When the general quest line is completed and the maximum level is reached the second part of the game starts. This part is even more interesting than the first one.
Real PvP starts after 50th level
To be honest, real PvP starts after your character reaches maximum level. That’s because you have a lot of strong abilities and spells that you can use in battle. Your abilities are morphed and your character has enough stamina, health and manna to perform well in Cyrodiil. Moreover your gear at the highest level is also good and thus you chances to win are high. Your character is ready to meet enemies. You can have a lot of fun fighting against other alliances in AvA war after reaching highest level.
Top Level Items Crafting
Crafting is a very important part of Elder Scrolls Online. Your character can start mastering any crafting profession at low levels and all crafted items are useful at any level. But Top level items can be crafted after you become a real master in your profession. There are top level items that can be received through crafting only. You can create top level armor and weapons; you can enchant your gear making it even better. Crafting at high levels is very interesting and beneficial.
Adventure Zones (Dungeons)
Adventure zones are very similar to traditional raids. You enter the zone and become a part of an interesting story. You can receive great rewards there and have a lot of fun. When you finish your faction’s zones you can go to other factions’ zones and do quests there. Each faction has about 150 hours of dungeon questing!
Master Dungeons
Elder Scrolls Online has very interesting dungeon system. When you play the game at level 1 – 49 you visit different dungeons and complete different quests there. But as soon as you reach 50th level you can return to the dungeon that was already visited by you at a lower level. You will find new areas available for exploration there and new quests to take. You will see how your previous actions influenced the situation and you will be able to continue adventures there. It will be a new dungeon where you will have new gameplay experience!
As you can see Elder Scrolls Online has a lot of End Game Content. The game is divided into 2 main parts: below 50th level and after the 50th level is reached. Both parts are interesting and you will definitely have a lot to do after the maximum level is reached.
- See more at: http://elderscrollsonline.info/end-game-content#sthash.UUdea8DL.dpuf
There Is Always Hope!