I must be one of the few people that doesn't see leveling through quests in ESO any different than every other mmo that has come out in the last decade.
Don't get me wrong I think they way you complete the story 1/3 of the way through the actual leveling experience was a pretty stupid decision. I like the VR content because it seems more balanced(not super easy like 1-50), but I think they should have made the difference between a VR1 and a VR10 more....cosmetic? idk, it's weird that a VR1 is like a level 50 and a VR10 is like a level 60 eventhough the story is complete and it's "extra content" that you can choose to do.
As far as the straight forward complaints about leveling through questing....yeah most mmos these days have lots and lots of quests. SOME games you can level with PVP, but most questing is the main way to do so. Are the people complaining about the quests saying it's so much better doing the quests in Wow, Swtor, Rift, Tera, AOC, Aion, and a dozen other modern themepark mmos? Maybe because quests in most themeparks are less involved. I can autopilot 10 levels in wow while watching a movie on my other monitor. I don't even need to think much less move around, block, dodge, interrupt just so some mob won't smack away half of my health bar.
Angry Joe's video really had me wondering while I was listening to them mocking all the quests as they went along. I could do that in every mmo. "Oh look the npcs are just standing there, no immersion waa waa." Mmos are repetitive and generally boring. Even the great "endgame" is usually boring after you do the same 8 bosses for 6-12months(Wow).
The grind is unacceptable because some people boosted their way to a level that others are jealous of and want to get there fast? Just play your game. What do you care? Wait a minute... PVP. If you PVP I understand the frustration, but imagine 2 weeks in and people are complaining about a Veteran Rank "grind". Yet if you were all VR10 people would be complaining how you got to end game too fast. No win situation for devs on that topic. MMORPGs need to start removing levels from game play and have other reasons for completing missions like getting new skills or improving old ones and other horizontal progression.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Originally posted by Horusra 4 hours every day is extreme. Most have jobs, school, friends, sleep. 8 hours School/Work, 2 hours commute, 1 dinner, 1 bathroom/dressing, 6 - 8 hours sleep....that is 18 - 20 hours....so all your free time each week day is spent grinding away on one game. How much of that 4 hours is chatting or is it all just grinding quests silently?
Whilst 2 or 3 hours might be more "casual" 4 hours isn't excessive. And the game supposed to "draw people in" and "be good value for money". Indeed 4 hours, the current X-Fire average, is on the low side; EA's press release after SWTOR launched gave an 8+ hours number. Holidays for sure - but it stayed above 5 for a long time.
Not the point however. The "complaint" if complaint it is, is that there is no viable way to do PvP and gain the extra levels. This is not about "content locusts" or "people who complain about no end game content" this is about people who want to PvP. Some of them would rather miss out every quest in the game and just do PvP.
By design however Zenimax have essentially forced all those who want to be competitive in PvP to do all three factions quests. For PvE players it is a very clever move but for PvP folk - possibly a quest to
This game is great fun. In fact, I'd go as far as saying this has been one of the best MMOs or even games in general in a long time. However, I am at VR6 and I'm very, very, very, very, very, very, very sick of questing.
PvP gives essentially no VR points (or any amount that is meaningful). World bosses / delves only reward you the first time through (which is fine) but the game is literally asking you to complete every quest in EVERY zone to obtain maximum level. Not only that but most of the game is done SOLO! I'm approaching nearly 7 days in-game time and I don't think I'm going to renew unless something is done with how the VR system is handled. I have friends who bought the game because I essentially 'sold' them on the fact that it has DaOC-style PvP. And it does. However, what I didn't know was that we had to do an absurd amount of solo PvE quest content before being competitive in the long run. It's just sad they've all quit at VR1-VR2
I refuse to solo quest another equivalent of levels 1-50 just to do the Adventure Zones. With that being said, I believe I did get my moneys worth out of the game purchase.
long term goals...take it as that and there is no grind? ^^
want all maxed instant nao more ways = sure, easier ? nope
No, I don't want 300+ hours of the same exact thing once I hit level cap. I want to get into craglorn and do other things that are more interesting than constant, unending quests.
The quests are very well presented and enjoyable in this game, there's no denying it, but I don't think they really planned endgame at all.
So can I guess that your real complaint is "there are no raids at end game"?
Not quite. I honestly prefer smaller-scale dungeons than raids anyways. My main complaint is that there is almost NOTHING to do to grind VR than to do every...other...quest... in the game. After the initial levelling experience, I'd be down for some story-centric questing that furthered my cahracter's max level development, rather than the game essentially pushing a reset button and throwing me into another faction's starting area, telling me to do the quests I'd do on an alt anyways.
I appreciate that but "it's a quest game".
It's no differenctthan, say, in a korean grinder, were you would grind out mobs for .01% the higher you went.
You are acting as if VR "whatever" is something aside from leveling and it's all part of the leveling.
I would agree that quests can get tiring as I'm an "old school grinder" but as I said above, if this was a grind game and people didn't like to "grind" then it would be the same issue.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
long term goals...take it as that and there is no grind? ^^
want all maxed instant nao more ways = sure, easier ? nope
No, I don't want 300+ hours of the same exact thing once I hit level cap. I want to get into craglorn and do other things that are more interesting than constant, unending quests.
The quests are very well presented and enjoyable in this game, there's no denying it, but I don't think they really planned endgame at all.
So can I guess that your real complaint is "there are no raids at end game"?
Not quite. I honestly prefer smaller-scale dungeons than raids anyways. My main complaint is that there is almost NOTHING to do to grind VR than to do every...other...quest... in the game. After the initial levelling experience, I'd be down for some story-centric questing that furthered my cahracter's max level development, rather than the game essentially pushing a reset button and throwing me into another faction's starting area, telling me to do the quests I'd do on an alt anyways.
I appreciate that but "it's a quest game".
It's no differenctthan, say, in a korean grinder, were you would grind out mobs for .01% the higher you went.
You are acting as if VR "whatever" is something aside from leveling and it's all part of the leveling.
I would agree that quests can get tiring as I'm an "old school grinder" but as I said above, if this was a grind game and people didn't like to "grind" then it would be the same issue.
We all know what you mean, please read other replies saying that whereas we enjoy the questing, we're getting sick of doing over 450 hours of it, 300 of which is forced endgame progression.
long term goals...take it as that and there is no grind? ^^
want all maxed instant nao more ways = sure, easier ? nope
No, I don't want 300+ hours of the same exact thing once I hit level cap. I want to get into craglorn and do other things that are more interesting than constant, unending quests.
The quests are very well presented and enjoyable in this game, there's no denying it, but I don't think they really planned endgame at all.
So can I guess that your real complaint is "there are no raids at end game"?
Not quite. I honestly prefer smaller-scale dungeons than raids anyways. My main complaint is that there is almost NOTHING to do to grind VR than to do every...other...quest... in the game. After the initial levelling experience, I'd be down for some story-centric questing that furthered my cahracter's max level development, rather than the game essentially pushing a reset button and throwing me into another faction's starting area, telling me to do the quests I'd do on an alt anyways.
I appreciate that but "it's a quest game".
It's no differenctthan, say, in a korean grinder, were you would grind out mobs for .01% the higher you went.
You are acting as if VR "whatever" is something aside from leveling and it's all part of the leveling.
I would agree that quests can get tiring as I'm an "old school grinder" but as I said above, if this was a grind game and people didn't like to "grind" then it would be the same issue.
We all know what you mean, please read other replies saying that whereas we enjoy the questing, we're getting sick of doing over 450 hours of it, 300 of which is forced endgame progression.
yeah yeah I get that and i'm saying it's no different from any other game where you would just grind mobs instead and still would be grinding mobs.
I seem to remember grinding mobs in Lineage 2 and it taking 6 months to get a level.
It is what it is.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
We all know what you mean, please read other replies saying that whereas we enjoy the questing, we're getting sick of doing over 450 hours of it, 300 of which is forced endgame progression.
How much is to much and how little is to little? A very common complaint about MMO's over the past many years have been how fast people level. In the first month of playing SWTOR I had 2 max level toons one of which had a near complete set of end game raid gear. That obviously is much to fast but if 450 hours is to slow what is just right?
I am probably a couple weeks from getting to the vet levels in ESO at the rate I am going and honestly I'm looking forward to it in some ways. Having levels slow way down means that I can focus on getting gear that works best for me and not just what is the highest level at the time since I'm gaining 2-3 levels a play session right now 99% of what drops is worthless the next time I play.
I do wish there where alternatives to quest grinding to get from VR1 to VR10 for those that burn out on questing but the main issue is if you give people a short cut they will take it so the path of least resistance is always the one most people will follow. And really there are ways to get VR levels faster than questing from what I have heard. Some groups have reported getting VR levels in 30-45 minutes each though grinding fast respawn high XP mobs.
My end-all-be-all complaint about this subject is this:
From 1-49 in beta, I could progress through the game however I wanted. I could quest, grind mobs, grind dungeons, explore, craft, PvP, etc.
Now at launch from 1-49 you can only level by questing, grinding mobs, and exploring. You no longer get XP from grinding dungeons, PvP, or crafting.
Now that I'm in VR content I can only progress through quests.
So in beta, the game started as "play your way!". Then at launch it was "Play the PvE way!". Now in VR content its "quest forever!".
The problem here isn't that VR content takes too long. The problem is that as you progress through the game, the game itself limits how you are allowed to progress your character.
We all know what you mean, please read other replies saying that whereas we enjoy the questing, we're getting sick of doing over 450 hours of it, 300 of which is forced endgame progression.
How much is to much and how little is to little? A very common complaint about MMO's over the past many years have been how fast people level. In the first month of playing SWTOR I had 2 max level toons one of which had a near complete set of end game raid gear. That obviously is much to fast but if 450 hours is to slow what is just right?
I am probably a couple weeks from getting to the vet levels in ESO at the rate I am going and honestly I'm looking forward to it in some ways. Having levels slow way down means that I can focus on getting gear that works best for me and not just what is the highest level at the time since I'm gaining 2-3 levels a play session right now 99% of what drops is worthless the next time I play.
I do wish there where alternatives to quest grinding to get from VR1 to VR10 for those that burn out on questing but the main issue is if you give people a short cut they will take it so the path of least resistance is always the one most people will follow. And really there are ways to get VR levels faster than questing from what I have heard. Some groups have reported getting VR levels in 30-45 minutes each though grinding fast respawn high XP mobs.
What you're describing is an exploit. There's a dungeon boss that spawns 2 adds which give a bunch of veteran points. What people are doing is aggro'ing the boss, killing the adds, and then leashing the boss so it resets the adds. There are many people in my clan who have done this... it took them about 40 hours of doing this one exploit to go from VR6 to VR10. Note that the mobs give no loot...so you're literally only grinding vet points. This exploit will be fixed in the next patch.
Originally posted by Betaguy Ya I agree, they should just make it super easy and that way everyone can obtain VR10 with only a couple hours game time every day. /rolls_eyes
No, just give players something interesting to do. Don't force me to listen to Jim Cummings voicing every other quest for 300 hours before I can even touch the adventure zones.
I mean there is other ways to get XP don't do just quest break it up by doing other activities... Dungeons, exploration, just kill grind mobs, pvp, just change it up so it is not so monotonous. If you are doing only quests from start to finish you are doing it wrong.
The point seems to make it quicker to vr 10, and not necessarily mixing it up. Running around 'exploring' is not mixing it up imo, and the options are very limited with pvp not giving enough exp, and dungeons as well.
The only real alternative is forming right sized groups to aoe grind npcs for exp. Essentially power lvling, but done in groups.
This game rewards exp with grouping too much, crafting included. If thats the variety ppl enjoy, well, good for them... but count me out. Doing aoe exp grinds is not challenging as well... its basically running a macro but instead of running a macro to do it for you, you have to actually 'play'.
So the issue of questing taking too long when that is how the game is played is a legitimate concern. The alternative does not help. People want to live their lives... but the real problem is, how the eso devs disguise the shallow pvp experience by making the exp grind so much troublesome and creating imbalances to make it a reward to possible enjoy pvp by being over powered in pvp in something so simple anyways.
If eso's pvp was only an instance and all players are equal and there was no gear grind... how would you then rate the pvp? For me its very simple. And the exp grind is just in the way to sugar coat that fact and reward players with being over powered.
Waste of time imo. I would simply move on. Either make other characters on other factions to enjoy the story, and possibly get a guildie to power lvl or even hire some one to power lvl with gold that is earned. Hint; while lvling other characters have hirelings to get resources to make items to make gold... assuming the economy still exists after duping at this point.
Im not interested in the story after all this hassle, personally. So no need for me to stick around. It was alright while it lasted. I would rate the expereince a mediocre 6/10 for an mmo. And since i mostly played as a single player since questing is mostly phased to be single player my rating for a single player vs other single players would not be so good for rating the game.
Im kind of surprised that they though putting a lot of questing was a good idea in an mmo, and barely have any depth for their pvp content and for their boss fights to be quite simple.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Originally posted by udon Originally posted by ultrastoatWe all know what you mean, please read other replies saying that whereas we enjoy the questing, we're getting sick of doing over 450 hours of it, 300 of which is forced endgame progression.
How much is to much and how little is to little? A very common complaint about MMO's over the past many years have been how fast people level. In the first month of playing SWTOR I had 2 max level toons one of which had a near complete set of end game raid gear. That obviously is much to fast but if 450 hours is to slow what is just right?
I am probably a couple weeks from getting to the vet levels in ESO at the rate I am going and honestly I'm looking forward to it in some ways. Having levels slow way down means that I can focus on getting gear that works best for me and not just what is the highest level at the time since I'm gaining 2-3 levels a play session right now 99% of what drops is worthless the next time I play.
I do wish there where alternatives to quest grinding to get from VR1 to VR10 for those that burn out on questing but the main issue is if you give people a short cut they will take it so the path of least resistance is always the one most people will follow. And really there are ways to get VR levels faster than questing from what I have heard. Some groups have reported getting VR levels in 30-45 minutes each though grinding fast respawn high XP mobs.
What you're describing is an exploit. There's a dungeon boss that spawns 2 adds which give a bunch of veteran points. What people are doing is aggro'ing the boss, killing the adds, and then leashing the boss so it resets the adds. There are many people in my clan who have done this... it took them about 40 hours of doing this one exploit to go from VR6 to VR10. Note that the mobs give no loot...so you're literally only grinding vet points. This exploit will be fixed in the next patch.
40 hours? I know people that went from VR6 - 10 in about 6 hours yesterday.
Apparently you run out of quests before VR10 if you do it the "right" way so I don't blame people for doing this. I'll be VR6 tonight (legit) and it just plain sucks.
Though nothing good in life is ever easy. Not really against there being a difficult to obtain level cap along the lines of old EQ or UO 7x GM. Gives me setting to work on over time. I really would prefer some variety in forms of advancement though. Grinding quests for 200+ hours is beyond tedious.
There's no doubt the game is very boring at the moment. The new craiglorn content patch looks promising though.
PVE that is actually challenging, class and weapon abilities tweaked, bugs fixed... If that content patch comes out as disappointment than ESO is pretty much screwed in the long run.
In my opinion they should get rid of the megaserver tech and build normal PVE/PVP/RP servers and all future zones should be contested. Don't like PVP? Get your ass in a PVE server. Making players just see their own faction players even in the enemie's faction zones is probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen in a MMO.
This PVE only aspect of the game makes questing very boring.
Than quest in the PVP zone. I ran around the PVP zone for a few hours doing quests and getting shards and really that zone feels much more like Skyrim to me in how it's laid out than any of the PVE zones. I do hope they flush out the PVP zone more as it has enormous potential to play like the online Skyrim everyone is bitching ESO isn't.
I don't see the Megaserver tech as the issue as ESO really feels like two games. A theme park quest driven game based in the PVE zones and a open world multiplayer online Skyrim set in the PVP zone. It's not perfect and both games need work but what they have done so far is pretty impressive when you think about it assuming you can take a step back and look at the whole of the game objectively.
That's what I've been doing, questing in Cyrodiil, but the game punishes you for doing so:
_You can't collect items for crafting for your appropriate level, Cyrodiil materials are all level 50+ besides plants. Even so these nodes are very scarce in Cyrodiil where in PVE zones they are in abundance.
_You ll be skipping a lot of skyshards from the PVE zones not to mention quests that grant you skill points. Cyrodiil quests are dailies, they give you money and XP only. In total those will be a LOT of skill points being skipped. You can always go back and grind those skyshards and quests but it doesn't feel natural, feels like a chore.
The way this game wants you to play is through questing and questing alone. This is 2014, many MMO's have been released by now where many can learn from them.
I'm not nagging because I want to reach level veteran 10 quickly, I'm a patient guy, I have absolutely no rush reaching max level. I do however, want to have fun while playing the game. After a hundred quests in PVE you start to feel quest sick and bored, looking for other ways to level your character.
I admire the world they made, its beautiful, I admire the life they gave to the PVE zones ( it doesn t look lifeless like SWTOR ), I like the quests even though there is an abundance of the zombie theme in most zones, I love how smooth the game plays with hundreds of players on screen but in the end it all comes down to this: is it fun? Fun enough to keep coming month after month? No. Even if you love questing you do them once and you don't come back.
Not only its not fun by default design, it frustrates you by the many bugs and issues the game has. My freaking character keeps dismounting my horse all the time, I hate that bug! lol Stupid horse. Weapon swap bugs out in-combat. Animations get stuck. I've encountered bugs in every single aspect of the game besides crafting so far. Every. single. aspect.
Ohhh and the pvp itself, the horrrorrrrrrrr. Abilities need so much tweaking that its hard to believe they tested pvp at all. All I see is people spamming Bolt Escape and Vampire Mist and Vampire Ultimate. Ever wonder why there are so many vampires everywhere? They are completely overpowered. People don't care about fair play or a challenging game, they want to feel powerful! Over compensating for something else maybe.
Games should not trying to satisfy the 10 - 20% that storm through content....that is a losing battle every time.
At the current state of the game people who are not yet V1+ will never reach V10.
The "rushers" are only ones who can breath through the VR crap atm.
I wouldn't say that necessarily. Now if we say, "the people that are level 25, have been playing since early access, and are 'taking their time'"....yeah, they're are going to burn out waaaaaaaay before VR10.
The rushers and medium speed people that are in the early-mid VR now have a chance of maxing out before the burnout comes.
Games should not trying to satisfy the 10 - 20% that storm through content....that is a losing battle every time.
At the current state of the game people who are not yet V1+ will never reach V10.
The "rushers" are only ones who can breath through the VR crap atm.
I wouldn't say that necessarily. Now if we say, "the people that are level 25, have been playing since early access, and are 'taking their time'"....yeah, they're are going to burn out waaaaaaaay before VR10.
The rushers and medium speed people that are in the early-mid VR now have a chance of maxing out before the burnout comes.
A player who takes the time to listen to all the quest voice overs, explore the map, get all the points of interest, skyshards and lorebooks, will take roughly 360 hours to reach VR10.
Now I don't know what hours a casual player puts into an MMO, but lets say 2 hours a day, that is six months to reach VR10. But how many casual players are willing to go days or weeks without gaining a level or getting a some kind of reward for their effort? I always assumed the casual player was also the instant gratification player.
Whatever the case, the problem most people have, regardless of how many hours a week you play, is that questing is the only sensible way to do Veteran content at the moment. We want some alternatives.
Also, there hasn't been an MMO that is this slow and tedious to hit max in the last decade. Even Korean MMOs are faster than this.
Games should not trying to satisfy the 10 - 20% that storm through content....that is a losing battle every time.
At the current state of the game people who are not yet V1+ will never reach V10.
The "rushers" are only ones who can breath through the VR crap atm.
I wouldn't say that necessarily. Now if we say, "the people that are level 25, have been playing since early access, and are 'taking their time'"....yeah, they're are going to burn out waaaaaaaay before VR10.
The rushers and medium speed people that are in the early-mid VR now have a chance of maxing out before the burnout comes.
I'd put myself in the "middle" category and I'm completely burnt out at least on questing. I just wish I could gain VP viably from mob grinding for mats/gold, PvPing, or even crafting (through level gains, not something exploitable like VP per craft).
Games should not trying to satisfy the 10 - 20% that storm through content....that is a losing battle every time.
At the current state of the game people who are not yet V1+ will never reach V10.
The "rushers" are only ones who can breath through the VR crap atm.
I wouldn't say that necessarily. Now if we say, "the people that are level 25, have been playing since early access, and are 'taking their time'"....yeah, they're are going to burn out waaaaaaaay before VR10.
The rushers and medium speed people that are in the early-mid VR now have a chance of maxing out before the burnout comes.
I'd put myself in the "middle" category and I'm completely burnt out at least on questing. I just wish I could gain VP viably from mob grinding for mats/gold, PvPing, or even crafting (through level gains, not something exploitable like VP per craft).
I don't even remember if I said it in this thread and don't care enough to look at my own history...
I think the VR should do something more cosmetic than straight character strength. You pick your alliance and level to 50. That should be the leveling. Doing the other zones should be a choice and give some type of perk/reward. Have it be an optional thing you do over time.
It really doesn't make sense to get to max level and then not actually be at max level.
Originally posted by Shephard I agree the grind to VR10 is way too much. VR5 wouldn't be bad but doing both factions after 50 is way way way too much, especially for the more casual player. More people will quit because of that than anything else in the game.
Some people say they want quest grinding, some say they don't. Until they find a way to beat exploiters in dungeons and PVP xp exploits, its going to remain quest based xp, which is the way it should be until they can find a way for equal progression without being exploited in PVP and dungeons.
If you are a person who likes the quests and storyline, and play this game for the RPG in it, then it should take a very long time to get to VR 10 through quests. It means there is content there, and that's good news to those of us who are playing this game for RPG purposes.
I'm glad it takes a long time, and sorry you do not enjoy RPG experience. If you think VR10 should be handed to you only one week into the game, I'm sorry but there is other games out there for you.
Originally posted by Shephard I agree the grind to VR10 is way too much. VR5 wouldn't be bad but doing both factions after 50 is way way way too much, especially for the more casual player. More people will quit because of that than anything else in the game.
Some people say they want quest grinding, some say they don't. Until they find a way to beat exploiters in dungeons and PVP xp exploits, its going to remain quest based xp, which is the way it should be until they can find a way for equal progression without being exploited in PVP and dungeons.
If you are a person who likes the quests and storyline, and play this game for the RPG in it, then it should take a very long time to get to VR 10 through quests. It means there is content there, and that's good news to those of us who are playing this game for RPG purposes.
I'm glad it takes a long time, and sorry you do not enjoy RPG experience. If you think VR10 should be handed to you only one week into the game, I'm sorry but there is other games out there for you.
Maybe we ARE enjoying the RPG experience, but don't want to do the same-fucking-thing for 300+ hours?
Originally posted by Shephard I agree the grind to VR10 is way too much. VR5 wouldn't be bad but doing both factions after 50 is way way way too much, especially for the more casual player. More people will quit because of that than anything else in the game.
Some people say they want quest grinding, some say they don't. Until they find a way to beat exploiters in dungeons and PVP xp exploits, its going to remain quest based xp, which is the way it should be until they can find a way for equal progression without being exploited in PVP and dungeons.
If you are a person who likes the quests and storyline, and play this game for the RPG in it, then it should take a very long time to get to VR 10 through quests. It means there is content there, and that's good news to those of us who are playing this game for RPG purposes.
I'm glad it takes a long time, and sorry you do not enjoy RPG experience. If you think VR10 should be handed to you only one week into the game, I'm sorry but there is other games out there for you.
Maybe we ARE enjoying the RPG experience, but don't want to do the same-fucking-thing for 300+ hours?
I'm glad it takes a long time, and sorry you do not enjoy RPG experience. But you shouldn't be selfish enough to try to crap on the RPG fans of this game, by asking them to change questing in it, because you think its a grind and want to PVP and Dungeon xp ONLY. Wait until they fix PVP and dungeon xp is fixed instead, don't try to crap on RPG fans instead.
Originally posted by Shephard I agree the grind to VR10 is way too much. VR5 wouldn't be bad but doing both factions after 50 is way way way too much, especially for the more casual player. More people will quit because of that than anything else in the game.
Some people say they want quest grinding, some say they don't. Until they find a way to beat exploiters in dungeons and PVP xp exploits, its going to remain quest based xp, which is the way it should be until they can find a way for equal progression without being exploited in PVP and dungeons.
If you are a person who likes the quests and storyline, and play this game for the RPG in it, then it should take a very long time to get to VR 10 through quests. It means there is content there, and that's good news to those of us who are playing this game for RPG purposes.
I'm glad it takes a long time, and sorry you do not enjoy RPG experience. If you think VR10 should be handed to you only one week into the game, I'm sorry but there is other games out there for you.
Maybe we ARE enjoying the RPG experience, but don't want to do the same-fucking-thing for 300+ hours?
I'm glad it takes a long time, and sorry you do not enjoy RPG experience. But you shouldn't be selfish enough to try to crap on the RPG fans of this game, by asking them to change questing in it, because you think its a grind and want to PVP and Dungeon xp ONLY. Wait until they fix PVP and dungeon xp is fixed instead, don't try to crap on RPG fans instead.
I think you're taking a legitimate gripe about a newly launched MMO a bit too personally...
Comments
I must be one of the few people that doesn't see leveling through quests in ESO any different than every other mmo that has come out in the last decade.
Don't get me wrong I think they way you complete the story 1/3 of the way through the actual leveling experience was a pretty stupid decision. I like the VR content because it seems more balanced(not super easy like 1-50), but I think they should have made the difference between a VR1 and a VR10 more....cosmetic? idk, it's weird that a VR1 is like a level 50 and a VR10 is like a level 60 eventhough the story is complete and it's "extra content" that you can choose to do.
As far as the straight forward complaints about leveling through questing....yeah most mmos these days have lots and lots of quests. SOME games you can level with PVP, but most questing is the main way to do so. Are the people complaining about the quests saying it's so much better doing the quests in Wow, Swtor, Rift, Tera, AOC, Aion, and a dozen other modern themepark mmos? Maybe because quests in most themeparks are less involved. I can autopilot 10 levels in wow while watching a movie on my other monitor. I don't even need to think much less move around, block, dodge, interrupt just so some mob won't smack away half of my health bar.
Angry Joe's video really had me wondering while I was listening to them mocking all the quests as they went along. I could do that in every mmo. "Oh look the npcs are just standing there, no immersion waa waa." Mmos are repetitive and generally boring. Even the great "endgame" is usually boring after you do the same 8 bosses for 6-12months(Wow).
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Whilst 2 or 3 hours might be more "casual" 4 hours isn't excessive. And the game supposed to "draw people in" and "be good value for money". Indeed 4 hours, the current X-Fire average, is on the low side; EA's press release after SWTOR launched gave an 8+ hours number. Holidays for sure - but it stayed above 5 for a long time.
Not the point however. The "complaint" if complaint it is, is that there is no viable way to do PvP and gain the extra levels. This is not about "content locusts" or "people who complain about no end game content" this is about people who want to PvP. Some of them would rather miss out every quest in the game and just do PvP.
By design however Zenimax have essentially forced all those who want to be competitive in PvP to do all three factions quests. For PvE players it is a very clever move but for PvP folk - possibly a quest to
This game is great fun. In fact, I'd go as far as saying this has been one of the best MMOs or even games in general in a long time. However, I am at VR6 and I'm very, very, very, very, very, very, very sick of questing.
PvP gives essentially no VR points (or any amount that is meaningful). World bosses / delves only reward you the first time through (which is fine) but the game is literally asking you to complete every quest in EVERY zone to obtain maximum level. Not only that but most of the game is done SOLO! I'm approaching nearly 7 days in-game time and I don't think I'm going to renew unless something is done with how the VR system is handled. I have friends who bought the game because I essentially 'sold' them on the fact that it has DaOC-style PvP. And it does. However, what I didn't know was that we had to do an absurd amount of solo PvE quest content before being competitive in the long run. It's just sad they've all quit at VR1-VR2
I refuse to solo quest another equivalent of levels 1-50 just to do the Adventure Zones. With that being said, I believe I did get my moneys worth out of the game purchase.
I appreciate that but "it's a quest game".
It's no differenctthan, say, in a korean grinder, were you would grind out mobs for .01% the higher you went.
You are acting as if VR "whatever" is something aside from leveling and it's all part of the leveling.
I would agree that quests can get tiring as I'm an "old school grinder" but as I said above, if this was a grind game and people didn't like to "grind" then it would be the same issue.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
We all know what you mean, please read other replies saying that whereas we enjoy the questing, we're getting sick of doing over 450 hours of it, 300 of which is forced endgame progression.
yeah yeah I get that and i'm saying it's no different from any other game where you would just grind mobs instead and still would be grinding mobs.
I seem to remember grinding mobs in Lineage 2 and it taking 6 months to get a level.
It is what it is.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
How much is to much and how little is to little? A very common complaint about MMO's over the past many years have been how fast people level. In the first month of playing SWTOR I had 2 max level toons one of which had a near complete set of end game raid gear. That obviously is much to fast but if 450 hours is to slow what is just right?
I am probably a couple weeks from getting to the vet levels in ESO at the rate I am going and honestly I'm looking forward to it in some ways. Having levels slow way down means that I can focus on getting gear that works best for me and not just what is the highest level at the time since I'm gaining 2-3 levels a play session right now 99% of what drops is worthless the next time I play.
I do wish there where alternatives to quest grinding to get from VR1 to VR10 for those that burn out on questing but the main issue is if you give people a short cut they will take it so the path of least resistance is always the one most people will follow. And really there are ways to get VR levels faster than questing from what I have heard. Some groups have reported getting VR levels in 30-45 minutes each though grinding fast respawn high XP mobs.
My end-all-be-all complaint about this subject is this:
From 1-49 in beta, I could progress through the game however I wanted. I could quest, grind mobs, grind dungeons, explore, craft, PvP, etc.
Now at launch from 1-49 you can only level by questing, grinding mobs, and exploring. You no longer get XP from grinding dungeons, PvP, or crafting.
Now that I'm in VR content I can only progress through quests.
So in beta, the game started as "play your way!". Then at launch it was "Play the PvE way!". Now in VR content its "quest forever!".
The problem here isn't that VR content takes too long. The problem is that as you progress through the game, the game itself limits how you are allowed to progress your character.
What you're describing is an exploit. There's a dungeon boss that spawns 2 adds which give a bunch of veteran points. What people are doing is aggro'ing the boss, killing the adds, and then leashing the boss so it resets the adds. There are many people in my clan who have done this... it took them about 40 hours of doing this one exploit to go from VR6 to VR10. Note that the mobs give no loot...so you're literally only grinding vet points. This exploit will be fixed in the next patch.
The VR content is soft-gated at the moment. Developers have been asked dozens of times about the state of VR's and they are keeping silent.
Why is this?
They don't want to tell players that "Don't worry it'll get nerfed once craglorn is ready".
The VR content is grindish because they dropped the mob VP(XP) to 1/10th of what it was on the PTR.
ESO endgame is not ready at the moment (There's literally no endgame in ESO unless you count Cyrodil as endgame).
My recommendation: Don't resub until craglorn comes or if you enjoy playing the game roll an alt.
1-49 is a blast. VR+ not.
The point seems to make it quicker to vr 10, and not necessarily mixing it up. Running around 'exploring' is not mixing it up imo, and the options are very limited with pvp not giving enough exp, and dungeons as well.
The only real alternative is forming right sized groups to aoe grind npcs for exp. Essentially power lvling, but done in groups.
This game rewards exp with grouping too much, crafting included. If thats the variety ppl enjoy, well, good for them... but count me out. Doing aoe exp grinds is not challenging as well... its basically running a macro but instead of running a macro to do it for you, you have to actually 'play'.
So the issue of questing taking too long when that is how the game is played is a legitimate concern. The alternative does not help. People want to live their lives... but the real problem is, how the eso devs disguise the shallow pvp experience by making the exp grind so much troublesome and creating imbalances to make it a reward to possible enjoy pvp by being over powered in pvp in something so simple anyways.
If eso's pvp was only an instance and all players are equal and there was no gear grind... how would you then rate the pvp? For me its very simple. And the exp grind is just in the way to sugar coat that fact and reward players with being over powered.
Waste of time imo. I would simply move on. Either make other characters on other factions to enjoy the story, and possibly get a guildie to power lvl or even hire some one to power lvl with gold that is earned. Hint; while lvling other characters have hirelings to get resources to make items to make gold... assuming the economy still exists after duping at this point.
Im not interested in the story after all this hassle, personally. So no need for me to stick around. It was alright while it lasted. I would rate the expereince a mediocre 6/10 for an mmo. And since i mostly played as a single player since questing is mostly phased to be single player my rating for a single player vs other single players would not be so good for rating the game.
Im kind of surprised that they though putting a lot of questing was a good idea in an mmo, and barely have any depth for their pvp content and for their boss fights to be quite simple.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Games should not trying to satisfy the 10 - 20% that storm through content....that is a losing battle every time.
How much is to much and how little is to little? A very common complaint about MMO's over the past many years have been how fast people level. In the first month of playing SWTOR I had 2 max level toons one of which had a near complete set of end game raid gear. That obviously is much to fast but if 450 hours is to slow what is just right?
I am probably a couple weeks from getting to the vet levels in ESO at the rate I am going and honestly I'm looking forward to it in some ways. Having levels slow way down means that I can focus on getting gear that works best for me and not just what is the highest level at the time since I'm gaining 2-3 levels a play session right now 99% of what drops is worthless the next time I play.
I do wish there where alternatives to quest grinding to get from VR1 to VR10 for those that burn out on questing but the main issue is if you give people a short cut they will take it so the path of least resistance is always the one most people will follow. And really there are ways to get VR levels faster than questing from what I have heard. Some groups have reported getting VR levels in 30-45 minutes each though grinding fast respawn high XP mobs.
What you're describing is an exploit. There's a dungeon boss that spawns 2 adds which give a bunch of veteran points. What people are doing is aggro'ing the boss, killing the adds, and then leashing the boss so it resets the adds. There are many people in my clan who have done this... it took them about 40 hours of doing this one exploit to go from VR6 to VR10. Note that the mobs give no loot...so you're literally only grinding vet points. This exploit will be fixed in the next patch.
40 hours? I know people that went from VR6 - 10 in about 6 hours yesterday.Apparently you run out of quests before VR10 if you do it the "right" way so I don't blame people for doing this. I'll be VR6 tonight (legit) and it just plain sucks.
Though nothing good in life is ever easy. Not really against there being a difficult to obtain level cap along the lines of old EQ or UO 7x GM. Gives me setting to work on over time. I really would prefer some variety in forms of advancement though. Grinding quests for 200+ hours is beyond tedious.
That's what I've been doing, questing in Cyrodiil, but the game punishes you for doing so:
_You can't collect items for crafting for your appropriate level, Cyrodiil materials are all level 50+ besides plants. Even so these nodes are very scarce in Cyrodiil where in PVE zones they are in abundance.
_You ll be skipping a lot of skyshards from the PVE zones not to mention quests that grant you skill points. Cyrodiil quests are dailies, they give you money and XP only. In total those will be a LOT of skill points being skipped. You can always go back and grind those skyshards and quests but it doesn't feel natural, feels like a chore.
The way this game wants you to play is through questing and questing alone. This is 2014, many MMO's have been released by now where many can learn from them.
I'm not nagging because I want to reach level veteran 10 quickly, I'm a patient guy, I have absolutely no rush reaching max level. I do however, want to have fun while playing the game. After a hundred quests in PVE you start to feel quest sick and bored, looking for other ways to level your character.
I admire the world they made, its beautiful, I admire the life they gave to the PVE zones ( it doesn t look lifeless like SWTOR ), I like the quests even though there is an abundance of the zombie theme in most zones, I love how smooth the game plays with hundreds of players on screen but in the end it all comes down to this: is it fun? Fun enough to keep coming month after month? No. Even if you love questing you do them once and you don't come back.
Not only its not fun by default design, it frustrates you by the many bugs and issues the game has. My freaking character keeps dismounting my horse all the time, I hate that bug! lol Stupid horse. Weapon swap bugs out in-combat. Animations get stuck. I've encountered bugs in every single aspect of the game besides crafting so far. Every. single. aspect.
Ohhh and the pvp itself, the horrrorrrrrrrr. Abilities need so much tweaking that its hard to believe they tested pvp at all. All I see is people spamming Bolt Escape and Vampire Mist and Vampire Ultimate. Ever wonder why there are so many vampires everywhere? They are completely overpowered. People don't care about fair play or a challenging game, they want to feel powerful! Over compensating for something else maybe.
It's all down to the upcoming content patch.
At the current state of the game people who are not yet V1+ will never reach V10.
The "rushers" are only ones who can breath through the VR crap atm.
I wouldn't say that necessarily. Now if we say, "the people that are level 25, have been playing since early access, and are 'taking their time'"....yeah, they're are going to burn out waaaaaaaay before VR10.
The rushers and medium speed people that are in the early-mid VR now have a chance of maxing out before the burnout comes.
I was wondering about this connection between the adventure zone not being ready at release and the reports of long hours of grind to get to VR10.
Did Zenimax see how GW2 got bashed for only having hard-mode dungeons at end game for PvE'ers, and realize they needed something else?
A player who takes the time to listen to all the quest voice overs, explore the map, get all the points of interest, skyshards and lorebooks, will take roughly 360 hours to reach VR10.
Now I don't know what hours a casual player puts into an MMO, but lets say 2 hours a day, that is six months to reach VR10. But how many casual players are willing to go days or weeks without gaining a level or getting a some kind of reward for their effort? I always assumed the casual player was also the instant gratification player.
Whatever the case, the problem most people have, regardless of how many hours a week you play, is that questing is the only sensible way to do Veteran content at the moment. We want some alternatives.
Also, there hasn't been an MMO that is this slow and tedious to hit max in the last decade. Even Korean MMOs are faster than this.
I'd put myself in the "middle" category and I'm completely burnt out at least on questing. I just wish I could gain VP viably from mob grinding for mats/gold, PvPing, or even crafting (through level gains, not something exploitable like VP per craft).
I don't even remember if I said it in this thread and don't care enough to look at my own history...
I think the VR should do something more cosmetic than straight character strength. You pick your alliance and level to 50. That should be the leveling. Doing the other zones should be a choice and give some type of perk/reward. Have it be an optional thing you do over time.
It really doesn't make sense to get to max level and then not actually be at max level.
Some people say they want quest grinding, some say they don't. Until they find a way to beat exploiters in dungeons and PVP xp exploits, its going to remain quest based xp, which is the way it should be until they can find a way for equal progression without being exploited in PVP and dungeons.
If you are a person who likes the quests and storyline, and play this game for the RPG in it, then it should take a very long time to get to VR 10 through quests. It means there is content there, and that's good news to those of us who are playing this game for RPG purposes.
I'm glad it takes a long time, and sorry you do not enjoy RPG experience. If you think VR10 should be handed to you only one week into the game, I'm sorry but there is other games out there for you.
Maybe we ARE enjoying the RPG experience, but don't want to do the same-fucking-thing for 300+ hours?
I'm glad it takes a long time, and sorry you do not enjoy RPG experience. But you shouldn't be selfish enough to try to crap on the RPG fans of this game, by asking them to change questing in it, because you think its a grind and want to PVP and Dungeon xp ONLY. Wait until they fix PVP and dungeon xp is fixed instead, don't try to crap on RPG fans instead.
I think you're taking a legitimate gripe about a newly launched MMO a bit too personally...