He writes a lot about the faults of WoW - this serves to avoid all discussion of ESO. He doesn't mention any facts or evidence that support his unpopular opinion that ESO is "the future of MMORPGs".
"People are down on ESO, because it is not a great ES game, nor a great MMO, and yet was released will a ton of bugs, dupes and bad design choices.
All for $60 +$15/mo + cash shop.
Had this been some F2P crap from Cryptic ala NW, people would have complained, but not cared that much,
But this was Elder Scrolls.
They used the IP to generate hype and sell boxes, but higher expectations come when you use a well known/loved IP.
And they have failed to meet the expectations of many or most (heard of TOR? Sound familiar?).
And if I might quote Angry Joe, "(They) done F****d it up!"
"
I don't like AJ but in this case I completely agree with him and you. Why is it so important to protect this game at all cost? What if it's f... up? Let's see ESO in half a year. Gamespot 6/10 - fair. That's all I have to say about that.
where is all these great mmos that you are talking about so I can buy them?ESO is the best mmo there have been in a long time.
I no longer read posts starting with "Sure it has some bugs but.." and/or "this is not Skyrim or WoW".
As a general rule, if some opinion about a game starts like this, stay the hell away from that game.
Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)
ESO is probably the best mmorpg out there right now, but its not sandbox. Therefore i will not buy it, cus i played wow/gw2/allods etc. The last like 5yrs and im a bit sick of themeparks
Originally posted by cprik ESO is probably the best mmorpg out there right now, but its not sandbox. Therefore i will not buy it, cus i played wow/gw2/allods etc. The last like 5yrs and im a bit sick of themeparks
agreed with that...i just think themepark is themepark, regardless of well you package it...if youre not coming up with some amazingly interesting and fun new mechanics only sandbox games will have some staying power in the future...or at least games with extensive sandbox features...
Originally posted by Nanfoodle For me it was not hate, I really enjoyed the game. I didnt like the direction a few things went. To much phasing made teaming a pain. I play with my wife and about 25% of the time she was this little arrow I could follow but not help in any way. Then instanced parts of the game you could not work together on because ZM wanted you to feel epic by doing it solo. Not really why I play and took me out of the fun by having to ask my wife again and again, can you see me? Do you see this node? Guess thats phased just for me =- If I wanted to play a solo game I would have played Morrowind again. If they change this... I just may buy the game. Im a huge TES fan its just that I dont play MMOs to solo.
This!! ^
ESO is a SP game, only time you have the feeling of an MMO is in public dungeons together with The Bot Brothers.
"I once was an adventurer like you, but then I got an Arrow above my head!"
Are you guys not aware of the travel to player feature that's been in since launch (or earlier?) I play with the wife as well and if we are ever in a different instance we just pop the party window open, right click, travel to player...done! Is it that hard to learn? Literally takes 10 seconds.
Fix spelling
Not talking about being in a different shard. If you dont know what phasing is pls google it.
Are you seriously complaining about the 1% of the game where it makes you go solo? WOW, really? You people crack me up. To each his own, but to make a point of such a small element in the game is telling the rest of your opinion.
Man do you not know the game at all... the guilds are all 100% solo to start but yes shocker. Being forced to solo in a MMO, odd how some people would rather not be forced but would rather team with someone. In a MMO (((eye roll)))
Originally posted by cprik ESO is probably the best mmorpg out there right now, but its not sandbox. Therefore i will not buy it, cus i played wow/gw2/allods etc. The last like 5yrs and im a bit sick of themeparks
"ESO is probably the best mmorpg out there right now..."
Really? REALLY???!
Sweet Jesus - the other MMORPGs I haven't played must be far worse than I thought!
If ESO represents the future of MMO gaming then I think it's time for me to pack it up and move on. But then again I can spot a shill from a mile away, this article is nothing but damage control for a piece of junk game.
If you don't like the game, simply explain why and then DON'T PLAY IT and stop wasting your time on articles, message boards, and forums just bashing the hell out of the game.
Go to work or play something you like. Do something constructive with your time
I think many of the gamers complaining about ESO simply don't have much else to do but complain. I also think many of them are still playing (and will continue to play) the game!
This is completely backwards thinking. They put out a deeply flawed, poorly designed product and somehow its up to us to point all of this out and provide solutions/fixes? I have a job and the last time I checked it was not "ESO developer". How about this, I send them the work from my job and they do it while I do theirs.
This game needs to fail and it needs to fail miserably. So miserably in fact that it serves as a warning to other game developers that the market will no longer tolerate this sort of trash. We need real innovation, real ideas, not just plugging ESO into the current MMO recipe and hedging it with a F2P back-up plan.
The only thing more tired than ESO hate is the fanboy line, "you have to come at it with the right attitude." If I have to adjust my way of thinking in order to enjoy paying them money to play a game I really don't find all the enjoyable to begin with, something is very very wrong in the market. How did this idea even get started? What kind economic nit-wit even came up with this? How about I start a car company, put out cars that often don't start, have features that don't work, or break down frequently and in the commercials I tell the consumer, "you just have to approach this product with the right attitude and you'll enjoy it." I'd be laughed out of business.
So don't come at it with any other attitude other than that of a consumer looking out for their own best interest and trying to maximize enjoyment for each dollar you spend. That's the one and only way we will ever get a better product. Bringing the full, and sometimes painful, brunt of the capitalist system to bear is the best way to get them to improve and innovate.
Very nice article , but sadly it has attracted even more of the haters and trolls that it is discussing, nobody can have a decent discussion about this game without threads being assaulted by the mob .... but then again perhaps mmorpg.com should do something about that.... after all most of the hate is totally unwarranted and out of proportion to the actual problems the game does have.
"I like ESO. Other people do not. In today's article, I'm going to try my hardest to rally against people who don't agree with me, and use a broad platform to see through a personal agenda free from objectivity or decent criticism in order that I may better justify why I like the game in the face of such well founded criticism from what I will refer to as "haters" (because I'm pretty biased tbh)."
I just knew this IP, this broad a market target spread, crammed into a generic theme park skin was gonna be popcorn worthy. The ESO debates are so entertaining.
This is a rather interesting topic. I cannot help but think that it has been put together to help stir the pot (maybe I am just cynical). I mean, if everyone in the room thinks you stink, but yet you do not agree, chances are good, you probably stink.
Wrong. Case and point: SWTOR. That game got slammed relentlessly as being dead by this community. Not having issues but "dead". It was doing it's death rattle. That is until some reliable numbers got posted not to long ago placing it in the top 10 cash shops of 2013. This community tore that game to pieces. Thread after thread after thread. It was mind numbingly stupid how repetitive those threads were. It had it's issues though the situation wasn't nearly as bad as people on this site made it out to be.
Watch the next big launch on this site. This community does a 180 almost every single time after a game goes live. It hypes the snot out of a game and then turns on it before 30 days up. The only big launch that I can think of which had a stupid amount of hype that this community didn't turn on recently was GW 2.
That just goes to show that there is somethign t obe said for the saying:
"You never get a second chance to make a 1st impression"
It holds doubly true for MMOs. A decade and a half later and we can still see that the launch will determins the overall consensus of the game's state and it doesn't really ever change. Of the people who remember Anarchy Online, one of the 1st things they'll tell you or tha tthey remember is how bad the game was when it launched. To them, it never mattered that the game became great and so unique in so many ways. The only exception to this has been FFXIV. But look what had to be done to get that exception. Players remember bad launches. SWTOR is doing very well right now. Surprisingly so. Yet it still has it's bad launch stigma attached to it. ZM and ESO are no different. They have a long way to go but unfortunately, in an MMO, once you lose trust, some people never look back. So they take with them their last memories and that is what stays with them and that is what ESO will always be.
MMO publishers and developers need to get this through their heads.
Get it right BEFORE it goes out the door or it's "Game Over"!
The problem is not with the hater minority but the agressive funboy majority.
Why haters can't have independent posts here or on reddit. Fanatic funboys come in army to flame and downvote the poor humble haters.
Haters deserve the chance too to express their opinion.
Even if they are minority.
This is pure fascism.
We are not criminals.
We are people who see with our own eyes. And our opinion belongs to ESO or in general these opinions belong to the topic too.
"The true haters are funboys."
I had to lol at this , a hater turning everything on its head to suit the haters , so now the people that like the game are haters .. lol , class ... sigh
The only thing good about ESO is the graphics (and even that is pretty subjective, eye of the beholder and such).
But, there's so many broken things in the game, and what do they do? Hey, let's release new content (with reused NPC skins, hurr, big work be done, much content we bring) and let's not fix stuff that doesn't work. Sounds reasonable. Combat is so clunky, I had to force myself to play after playing 1 beta weekend of Wildstar (can't say if WS will be any good, but the combat is nice, fluid and responsive).
But hey, ok, I finish PVE content (I had decent fun till lvl 50, but after that it is a damn pain, if I wanted to do everything I'd make an alt) and want to focus on PvP...weeeelll, Cyrodil, my nemesis...half the stuff works bad, lags, crashes, infinite loading screens, AOE caps, stupid scroll mechanics (nice way to fuck up small teams trying to get it), broken skills (0 cost vamp ultimate = trolololo whole day), mount bug, knockdown bug, idk what the hell else bug.
Here's a vid that shows how "pvp" looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o (we usually only die coz of lag, or really massive zergs, except that time around the tree, half the ppl went the wrong way heh, we also crashed the game at 1:50-ish (game can't even handle skills yo)). 1 month in, and 90% of the guild quit already...can't blame people, when the best tactics is to stand and turtle and spam skills and hope they go off. Well, EU server would help somewhat, but hey, who cares about EU? Not Zeni, that's who.
Tldr: Even if I presume that nothing major is wrong with the game, there is so many little broken and clunky things, that the whole of the game feels shitty (imho).
So staff at an mmo site is telling us to like an mmo. Of course you want us to like a new game which has given your website the majority of its hits in the past year or so.
If ESO was just another FTP game it might be ok, but measured up to the hype, expectations and price it's a huge steaming pile of pixel poop.
HINT: You might not want to start off saying, "Yes, ESO has flaws" right after criticising those who can't tolerate them.
The problem is not with the hater minority but the agressive funboy majority.
Why haters can't have independent posts here or on reddit. Fanatic funboys come in army to flame and downvote the poor humble haters.
Haters deserve the chance too to express their opinion.
Even if they are minority.
This is pure fascism.
We are not criminals.
We are people who see with our own eyes. And our opinion belongs to ESO or in general these opinions belong to the topic too.
"The true haters are funboys."
I had to lol at this , a hater turning everything on its head to suit the haters , so now the people that like the game are haters .. lol , class ... sigh
The problem is not with the hater minority but the agressive funboy majority.
Why haters can't have independent posts here or on reddit. Fanatic funboys come in army to flame and downvote the poor humble haters.
Haters deserve the chance too to express their opinion.
Even if they are minority.
This is pure fascism.
We are not criminals.
We are people who see with our own eyes. And our opinion belongs to ESO or in general these opinions belong to the topic too.
"The true haters are funboys."
I had to lol at this , a hater turning everything on its head to suit the haters , so now the people that like the game are haters .. lol , class ... sigh
You just don't understand how it works.
"Hater" attacks game.
"Fanboy" attacks "hater."
Who is attacking a person in this situation?
lol, I don't think there is any point for further discussion with flawed logic like that. Read the article its about people that hate the game not the people that like it .. sigh
The problem is not with the hater minority but the agressive funboy majority.
Why haters can't have independent posts here or on reddit. Fanatic funboys come in army to flame and downvote the poor humble haters.
Haters deserve the chance too to express their opinion.
Even if they are minority.
This is pure fascism.
We are not criminals.
We are people who see with our own eyes. And our opinion belongs to ESO or in general these opinions belong to the topic too.
"The true haters are funboys."
I had to lol at this , a hater turning everything on its head to suit the haters , so now the people that like the game are haters .. lol , class ... sigh
As I have seen in this particular launch, The ones this article defines as the Haters are the ones who are criticizing a piece of intellectual property. But when they do, they in turn become assaulted and personally attacked for it by the so called fanboys. So, one person "attacks" a thing, and another person attacks another person for it. Accusing someone of "hate" for expressing dissatisfaction over an inanimate object is ridiculous. When I see ad-homs and personal judgements against a person who really nothing is known about and it for the purposes of trying to discredit or smear that person, for expressing an opinion that has nothing to do with another person, yeah, that's hate. And it's the fansboys that are doing it.
The problem is not with the hater minority but the agressive funboy majority.
Why haters can't have independent posts here or on reddit. Fanatic funboys come in army to flame and downvote the poor humble haters.
Haters deserve the chance too to express their opinion.
Even if they are minority.
This is pure fascism.
We are not criminals.
We are people who see with our own eyes. And our opinion belongs to ESO or in general these opinions belong to the topic too.
"The true haters are funboys."
I had to lol at this , a hater turning everything on its head to suit the haters , so now the people that like the game are haters .. lol , class ... sigh
As I have seen in this particular launch, The ones this article defines as the Haters are the ones who are criticizing a piece of intellectual property. But when they do, they in turn become assaulted and personally attacked for it by the so called fanboys. So, one person "attacks" a thing, and another person attacks another person for it. Accusing someone of "hate" for expressing dissatisfaction over an inanimate object is ridiculous. When I see ad-homs and personal judgements against a person who really nothing is known about and it for the purposes of trying to discredit or smear that person, for expressing an opinion that has nothing to do with another person, yeah, that's hate. And it's the fansboys that are doing it.
Sorry but , lol , just lol ... another ridiculous post.
The problem is not with the hater minority but the agressive funboy majority.
Why haters can't have independent posts here or on reddit. Fanatic funboys come in army to flame and downvote the poor humble haters.
Haters deserve the chance too to express their opinion.
Even if they are minority.
This is pure fascism.
We are not criminals.
We are people who see with our own eyes. And our opinion belongs to ESO or in general these opinions belong to the topic too.
"The true haters are funboys."
I had to lol at this , a hater turning everything on its head to suit the haters , so now the people that like the game are haters .. lol , class ... sigh
You just don't understand how it works.
"Hater" attacks game.
"Fanboy" attacks "hater."
Who is attacking a person in this situation?
lol, I don't its any point for further discussion with flawed logic like that. Read the article its about people that hate the game not the people that like it .. sigh
You realize you just reiterated what I wrote, right?
The article is directly attacking people that "hate" the game. That's one of the reasons it's so bad. He addresses the people instead of the arguments and then creates straw men arguments about how people want the game to be like WoW. He blames the "haters" for being "spoon fed" like little babies for too long. It's absolutely ridiculous.
As a community we need to stop providing the negative feedback, and start giving contrasting feedback that isn’t a flat comparison to other MMOs. Remember ESO isn’t like other MMOs, it’s completely different, and let’s keep it that way.
I remember the SOE forums when EQ launched in 1999
SOE originally let anyone post - and it was not restricted to subs
it was a cesspool of negativity, and SOE later restricted posting to subs only
I agree with Ryan that constructive feedback is better but ... it's the internetz !
Comments
Yet another damage control column.
Maybe in a follow up article we'll see some impartiality instead of excuses.
The author has probably been paid to promote ESO.
He writes a lot about the faults of WoW - this serves to avoid all discussion of ESO. He doesn't mention any facts or evidence that support his unpopular opinion that ESO is "the future of MMORPGs".
where is all these great mmos that you are talking about so I can buy them?ESO is the best mmo there have been in a long time.
I no longer read posts starting with "Sure it has some bugs but.." and/or "this is not Skyrim or WoW".
As a general rule, if some opinion about a game starts like this, stay the hell away from that game.
Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)
agreed with that...i just think themepark is themepark, regardless of well you package it...if youre not coming up with some amazingly interesting and fun new mechanics only sandbox games will have some staying power in the future...or at least games with extensive sandbox features...
Man do you not know the game at all... the guilds are all 100% solo to start but yes shocker. Being forced to solo in a MMO, odd how some people would rather not be forced but would rather team with someone. In a MMO (((eye roll)))
"ESO is probably the best mmorpg out there right now..."
Really? REALLY???!
Sweet Jesus - the other MMORPGs I haven't played must be far worse than I thought!
It's really plain and simple:
If you don't like the game, simply explain why and then DON'T PLAY IT and stop wasting your time on articles, message boards, and forums just bashing the hell out of the game.
Go to work or play something you like. Do something constructive with your time
I think many of the gamers complaining about ESO simply don't have much else to do but complain. I also think many of them are still playing (and will continue to play) the game!
This is completely backwards thinking. They put out a deeply flawed, poorly designed product and somehow its up to us to point all of this out and provide solutions/fixes? I have a job and the last time I checked it was not "ESO developer". How about this, I send them the work from my job and they do it while I do theirs.
This game needs to fail and it needs to fail miserably. So miserably in fact that it serves as a warning to other game developers that the market will no longer tolerate this sort of trash. We need real innovation, real ideas, not just plugging ESO into the current MMO recipe and hedging it with a F2P back-up plan.
The only thing more tired than ESO hate is the fanboy line, "you have to come at it with the right attitude." If I have to adjust my way of thinking in order to enjoy paying them money to play a game I really don't find all the enjoyable to begin with, something is very very wrong in the market. How did this idea even get started? What kind economic nit-wit even came up with this? How about I start a car company, put out cars that often don't start, have features that don't work, or break down frequently and in the commercials I tell the consumer, "you just have to approach this product with the right attitude and you'll enjoy it." I'd be laughed out of business.
So don't come at it with any other attitude other than that of a consumer looking out for their own best interest and trying to maximize enjoyment for each dollar you spend. That's the one and only way we will ever get a better product. Bringing the full, and sometimes painful, brunt of the capitalist system to bear is the best way to get them to improve and innovate.
Very nice article , but sadly it has attracted even more of the haters and trolls that it is discussing, nobody can have a decent discussion about this game without threads being assaulted by the mob .... but then again perhaps mmorpg.com should do something about that.... after all most of the hate is totally unwarranted and out of proportion to the actual problems the game does have.
This post should have started with:
"I like ESO. Other people do not. In today's article, I'm going to try my hardest to rally against people who don't agree with me, and use a broad platform to see through a personal agenda free from objectivity or decent criticism in order that I may better justify why I like the game in the face of such well founded criticism from what I will refer to as "haters" (because I'm pretty biased tbh)."
Done.
The problem is not with the hater minority but the agressive funboy majority.
Why haters can't have independent posts here or on reddit. Fanatic funboys come in army to flame and downvote the poor humble haters.
Haters deserve the chance too to express their opinion.
Even if they are minority.
This is pure fascism.
We are not criminals.
We are people who see with our own eyes. And our opinion belongs to ESO or in general these opinions belong to the topic too.
"The true haters are funboys."
I just knew this IP, this broad a market target spread, crammed into a generic theme park skin was gonna be popcorn worthy. The ESO debates are so entertaining.
That just goes to show that there is somethign t obe said for the saying:
"You never get a second chance to make a 1st impression"
It holds doubly true for MMOs. A decade and a half later and we can still see that the launch will determins the overall consensus of the game's state and it doesn't really ever change. Of the people who remember Anarchy Online, one of the 1st things they'll tell you or tha tthey remember is how bad the game was when it launched. To them, it never mattered that the game became great and so unique in so many ways. The only exception to this has been FFXIV. But look what had to be done to get that exception. Players remember bad launches. SWTOR is doing very well right now. Surprisingly so. Yet it still has it's bad launch stigma attached to it. ZM and ESO are no different. They have a long way to go but unfortunately, in an MMO, once you lose trust, some people never look back. So they take with them their last memories and that is what stays with them and that is what ESO will always be.
MMO publishers and developers need to get this through their heads.
Get it right BEFORE it goes out the door or it's "Game Over"!
I had to lol at this , a hater turning everything on its head to suit the haters , so now the people that like the game are haters .. lol , class ... sigh
The only thing good about ESO is the graphics (and even that is pretty subjective, eye of the beholder and such).
But, there's so many broken things in the game, and what do they do? Hey, let's release new content (with reused NPC skins, hurr, big work be done, much content we bring) and let's not fix stuff that doesn't work. Sounds reasonable. Combat is so clunky, I had to force myself to play after playing 1 beta weekend of Wildstar (can't say if WS will be any good, but the combat is nice, fluid and responsive).
But hey, ok, I finish PVE content (I had decent fun till lvl 50, but after that it is a damn pain, if I wanted to do everything I'd make an alt) and want to focus on PvP...weeeelll, Cyrodil, my nemesis...half the stuff works bad, lags, crashes, infinite loading screens, AOE caps, stupid scroll mechanics (nice way to fuck up small teams trying to get it), broken skills (0 cost vamp ultimate = trolololo whole day), mount bug, knockdown bug, idk what the hell else bug.
Here's a vid that shows how "pvp" looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o (we usually only die coz of lag, or really massive zergs, except that time around the tree, half the ppl went the wrong way heh, we also crashed the game at 1:50-ish (game can't even handle skills yo)). 1 month in, and 90% of the guild quit already...can't blame people, when the best tactics is to stand and turtle and spam skills and hope they go off. Well, EU server would help somewhat, but hey, who cares about EU? Not Zeni, that's who.
Tldr: Even if I presume that nothing major is wrong with the game, there is so many little broken and clunky things, that the whole of the game feels shitty (imho).
So staff at an mmo site is telling us to like an mmo. Of course you want us to like a new game which has given your website the majority of its hits in the past year or so.
If ESO was just another FTP game it might be ok, but measured up to the hype, expectations and price it's a huge steaming pile of pixel poop.
HINT: You might not want to start off saying, "Yes, ESO has flaws" right after criticising those who can't tolerate them.
You just don't understand how it works.
"Hater" attacks game.
"Fanboy" attacks "hater."
Who is attacking a person in this situation?
lol, I don't think there is any point for further discussion with flawed logic like that. Read the article its about people that hate the game not the people that like it .. sigh
As I have seen in this particular launch, The ones this article defines as the Haters are the ones who are criticizing a piece of intellectual property. But when they do, they in turn become assaulted and personally attacked for it by the so called fanboys. So, one person "attacks" a thing, and another person attacks another person for it. Accusing someone of "hate" for expressing dissatisfaction over an inanimate object is ridiculous. When I see ad-homs and personal judgements against a person who really nothing is known about and it for the purposes of trying to discredit or smear that person, for expressing an opinion that has nothing to do with another person, yeah, that's hate. And it's the fansboys that are doing it.
Sorry but , lol , just lol ... another ridiculous post.
You realize you just reiterated what I wrote, right?
The article is directly attacking people that "hate" the game. That's one of the reasons it's so bad. He addresses the people instead of the arguments and then creates straw men arguments about how people want the game to be like WoW. He blames the "haters" for being "spoon fed" like little babies for too long. It's absolutely ridiculous.
I remember the SOE forums when EQ launched in 1999
SOE originally let anyone post - and it was not restricted to subs
it was a cesspool of negativity, and SOE later restricted posting to subs only
I agree with Ryan that constructive feedback is better but ... it's the internetz !
EQ2 fan sites