So staff at an mmo site is telling us to like an mmo. Of course you want us to like a new game which has given your website the majority of its hits in the past year or so.
If ESO was just another FTP game it might be ok, but measured up to the hype, expectations and price it's a huge steaming pile of pixel poop.
HINT: You might not want to start off saying, "Yes, ESO has flaws" right after criticising those who can't tolerate them.
The MMORPG.com staff did not ask us to like the game. The author of the column simply wonders why today people rage like Mr. Hyde when a MMO ...
1) ... not perfectly fits their personal wish list.
2) ... a MMO experiences difficulties at the start.
Especially on this platform players raise massive complaints about bugs, even though these bugs do not prevent them of having fun in-game. The so called feedback often contains strong insults towards the developers and definitely is not constructive criticism.
We all want to be treated in a respectful manner. Why is it so hard to return this respectful manner?
Maybe Mmorpg.com should make a section for the haters of this game like they did with SWG and the Veteran Refuge as I think they called it. ( although I do believe they really needed somewhere to vent their anger and frustration at SOE on that occasion )
But then again it still wouldn't keep the hater trolls away from any positive thread , I think they are past all reasonable self control once they descend into the lets all hate " X " game spiral.
"My game is filled with bugs, bad game mechanics, bad instance design, bad community management , filled with trolls and bots and hackers, i am banning players who is bugged; falls through sky and sea and then dies in a completely different map. but that is not my fault!!!! this is all WoW's fault!!! fuck you blizzard!!! fuck you WoW!!! IF you did not exist my worthless piece of shit game would have been considered a very good game!!!"
Agree 100 percent with the author!! Everything is WoW's fault!!! From now on i have decided to blame WoW for every mistake i made!! Thanks for inspiring me Ryan Getchell!!
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Lol, the rage is strong with this author. Is the game a WoW killer? No. Is it a DAOC 2? No. But, I've enjoyed my time and plan on putting a minimum of 2 more months into pvp. Beta was practically open and easy to see what you were getting complain less and go play Cartoon Network's Wildstar.
Haxus Council Member 21 year MMO veteran PvP Raid Leader Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
Could not agree more with this article. I'm an old school MMO gamer myself, and started to lose interest after everything released post-WoW became single-player MMOs. ESO has me interacting again.
hmmm.. this is old news to me. sure WoW was my first MMO but I left because of the community and how simple the game became. applied training wheels and the level of maturity of the community plummeted. I then went to The Secret World. not as highly polished and at the time was quite a steep learning curve, TSW had the best community I had seen in game so far. but I moved on from TSW with fond memories, I was playing a few shooters around then so I thought Defiance was a good next choice. now talk about judging, comparisons and hate! I have enjoyed Defiance since launch but the bashing it got at launch was disgusting. (though I will say, blame the developers not the game itself). check out those forums for the cream of ranting and raving. and now I'm playing ESO. with the wisdom earned from witnessing all the short sighted comparison and QQ'n in the past, i have found the best opinion to trust is your own. if there are aspect that you suspect you would like then play it! if you feel you wasted your money then that's on you!
I hate to say it but Ive slowly started becoming more of a "hater". Ive been defending this game to the core for a long time. I actually thought launch was awesome, but it seems like the more bugs they try to fix, the more bugs I run into. Maybe its just been bad luck on my part but Ive encountered more bugs lately than I did during beta or even launch. And Id be lying if I said the cash shop didnt bother me. But the fact is more and more I play, I keep thinking. Im paying 15 dollars a month for this.... And the more I play and the more bugs I run into the more I feel overwhelmed like there is no way they will be able to fix all that is wrong with the game on top of add new content. And the content that I am waiting on "thieves guild, dark brotherhood, player housing, arenas" are probably years out. The fact is they made the choice to go live now. Rather than just be honest and say this has been a major undertaking and we need another year. They said well give it a shot and charge people for it anyway and see what happens. Well this is what happens. As to how successfull the game actually is, thats still up in the air. The game seems to be well populated, but being on a megaserver that could mislead as to how many people are actually playing. So Im the fence still. Im incredibly frustrated by my attacks just quit functioning resulting in wipes and adding to my repair, while at the same time at awe of the beauty of the game. But Ive come to agree with the haters in that we are absolutely not being delivered a premium service. And Zenimax and Bethedsa took a huge gamble in releasing this game to early, and this is the consequences of it.
The problem is not with the hater minority but the agressive funboy majority.
Why haters can't have independent posts here or on reddit. Fanatic funboys come in army to flame and downvote the poor humble haters.
Haters deserve the chance too to express their opinion.
Even if they are minority.
This is pure fascism.
We are not criminals.
We are people who see with our own eyes. And our opinion belongs to ESO or in general these opinions belong to the topic too.
"The true haters are funboys."
I had to lol at this , a hater turning everything on its head to suit the haters , so now the people that like the game are haters .. lol , class ... sigh
You just don't understand how it works.
"Hater" attacks game.
"Fanboy" attacks "hater."
Who is attacking a person in this situation?
THANK YOU....
This is what this thread has turned into. Upset customers complaining about a game they spent money on getting attacked by fans.
The best thing you asked Op was if games are lazy and expect everything spoon fed to them. The simple fact is that they do expect everything to be spoon fed to them thanks to companies like Blizzard and ArenaNet who make games that only requires an IQ of 2 to understand.
It is also about how society has changed drastically. People want satisfaction right now within 2 seconds flat. if it takes any effort whatsoever then they are being inconvenienced and that to them is not going to work.
Just to give you an example of how true this is. I work in a deli. Did you know that deli meat is the #1 choice for lunch ? You ask yourself why, the answer is because it is quick and easy. Kids and even parents today do not want to cook. They do not want to do it the old fashioned way as in putting effort into anything. Society is lazy hence why we get mmos that are similar to arcade games.
I don't think many people 'hate' ESO, but I do think that a lot of players expected more.
Let's also not forget to point out that fanboys are just as much to blame for the current state of the genre. They will justify almost any payment model, overlook any bugs or polish issues, and will generally support mediocrity while calling out anyone who demands more from a game / developer.
The production of MMORPGs is the champions league of game development. A MMORPG consists of millions lines of code and functions often interact with other functions. Bugs are the result of certain functions not working as intended. Some are easy to be identified and corrected. Others are not and require in-depth testing to be identified and careful consideration before being fixed. Careful consideration, because changes could lead to other problems.
Comparing such a complex project with a washing machine is like comparing a solid wood cube to a Star Trek Borg Sphere. I highly doubt that you would complain about your wood cube not being able to shooting phasers and warping around, would you?
There exists a simple saying: "If you don't know what you're talking about, shut your face!". Yet, when it comes to feedback about MMORPGs, the user base seems to believe that they know better about programming and MMO design than the developers and game designers.A hint. You are not!
Forums about MMOs usually attract a large sum of such people. They think they know better and when they complain they totally miss the rules of good communication, because this is Web 2.0 and we are free to flame.
Zenimax already responded and they quickly roll out bugfixes and improvements to the game. That's all I need to know. They understand, they do care about our opinions and they work hard on making the TESO experience even better than it already is. So, I'm happy and continue playing.
Blah, blah, blah.
MMORPGs are not the ultra complex beasts that many think they are. They are not any more complex than distributed shopping systems like Amazon.com or the scheduling and packing systems that UPS use throughout their entire business structure. Google's entire network would make MMORPGs look like amateur hour.
The difference? when's the last time you couldn't place an order at Amazon? When's the last time you couldn't search for anything at Google?
That's the big leagues and they know they have to have premium quality control or people won't continue using their website and services. Imagine if half the time when someone visited Gmail to check their mail, they actually were logged into somebody else's mail account? That actually happened in ESO.
Imagine if when people checked their Gmail account, suddenly extra emails showed up. Imagine ordering 1 item from Amazon and getting sent 10? that analogous to item duping in ESO.
The issue? they cannot have such obvious bugs happen - new launch or not because that would be business damaging to Amazon or Google.
Imagine the financial liability if someone logged into their bank website - yet were allowed access to someone else's bank accounts. On top of that, they were able to transfer that guys money and spend it! It happened in ESO - banks would be sued if they let that happen. So - they employ premium quality control to make sure stuff like that doesn't happen when their systems go live.
MMORPG devs? bugs.. pfsshaw, our gamers just want CONTENT, we'll fix that crap later. Well guess what ESO? apparently your poor quality control is coming home to roost.
"Is that really how we’re supposed to review our games? By comparing them to others? I thought a review was supposed to be solely based on our experience in the game itself not our experience in another title that shares nothing than the genre." What a ridiculous idea. Go over to IGN and see how often in their reviews they compare a game to a different game in that genre. Why would you NOT do this? A review is meant to inform your reader about the product they would be getting for their $60 (and sub fee in this case). So a good reviewer uses points of reference that the average reader is familiar with to communicate the similarities and differences. Does that make the review biased? No. It simply makes it thorough. A review of Titanfall that does not mention Call of Duty is simply not effectively communicating the game's features to the average reader. In the same way, a review of ESO that never mentions WoW is simply not communicating the features of the game effectively.
Reviews exist so that consumers can be informed for a purchase. The question being answered in every review is "How best can the consumer spend their $60?". The idea of fairness may be near and dear to you and Karl Marx, but to those of us that just want to use our $60 on something fun, fairness doesn't enter into it.
P.S. An opinion cannot be flawed. You may disagree with it, but it cannot be flawed.
Sadly this game is not so bad, its ok, most reviewers dont have problem with its quality, but about its price. Simply it DOESNT DESeRVES a subscription ...
They have some outdated and antisocial systems, like chests, gathering and a weird mechanic to res other people around you.. Such stuff because they existed in the past doesnt mean they are good and we can accept them again ...
Accepting monthly subscription for games like this, it is bad, cause then more publishers will release same stuff demanding subscriptions and at the end the whole genre will fall into the depths of the abyss ... Actually monthly subscription is a terrible payment model but anyway ...
This is the game that broke the camel's back for me.
It's not a bad game IMO in itself. It's just another game that doesn't really distinguish itself from others.
Yes the IP is Elder Scrolls - which I've loved since Arena, the GFX are ok, but after 20 hours playing it just felt "Oh, this game again"
You know what, I also realised that despite playing online multi user games (not all strictly MMO's) since MUD over Telnet in 1985, I've pretty much had enough of them.
I don't want to socialize in a game, I no longer want to play with strangers at all. I have a life, a business, a social life, I play sports and have a large family.
I've realised I turn my PC on to escape from people, not be confronted by faceless strangers.
I might play the odd hour of a game I already own here and there, but I feel ESO is the last theme park MMO I'll ever buy. It's one of the best, but It's also the one that made me realise that the whole "social gaming" thing isn't for me any more.
You cannot even remotely comment on the success or failure of an MMO at release. Everything about the game is totally skewed due to the massive influx of players. It's 6 months down the road that the "real" picture develops. All games are typically worth the box price, it's the long term investment down the road that is, and always has been, in question.
There is absolutely no denying the fact that the number one thing that players despise is a lack of players in their games. Since there is NEVER a lack of players at launch, there is no point in judging a game on what *may* happen. This includes the poo flingers as much as the fanbois. When it happens, you will know it. It won't take a cover story to tell you that it will happen, that it is happening, or that it has happened.
ESO is destined to follow the path that all MMOs have followed in the past and that all new MMOs will follow in the future. Player retention is the "publish or perish" of the MMO developers world. Even the great behemoth that is WoW cannot escape it.
Comments
QFT!!!
Excellent +1000
The MMORPG.com staff did not ask us to like the game. The author of the column simply wonders why today people rage like Mr. Hyde when a MMO ...
1) ... not perfectly fits their personal wish list.
2) ... a MMO experiences difficulties at the start.
Especially on this platform players raise massive complaints about bugs, even though these bugs do not prevent them of having fun in-game. The so called feedback often contains strong insults towards the developers and definitely is not constructive criticism.
We all want to be treated in a respectful manner. Why is it so hard to return this respectful manner?
Maybe Mmorpg.com should make a section for the haters of this game like they did with SWG and the Veteran Refuge as I think they called it. ( although I do believe they really needed somewhere to vent their anger and frustration at SOE on that occasion )
But then again it still wouldn't keep the hater trolls away from any positive thread , I think they are past all reasonable self control once they descend into the lets all hate " X " game spiral.
"My game is filled with bugs, bad game mechanics, bad instance design, bad community management , filled with trolls and bots and hackers, i am banning players who is bugged; falls through sky and sea and then dies in a completely different map. but that is not my fault!!!! this is all WoW's fault!!! fuck you blizzard!!! fuck you WoW!!! IF you did not exist my worthless piece of shit game would have been considered a very good game!!!"
Agree 100 percent with the author!! Everything is WoW's fault!!! From now on i have decided to blame WoW for every mistake i made!! Thanks for inspiring me Ryan Getchell!!
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
The bottom line is that people have tolerance for flaws in a game relative to how much they generally enjoy it.
The more that they enjoy it, the easier they forgive.
What this says about ESO I will leave you to decide.
Ahhh there is great wisdom in your post .. Young Jedi !
this is old news to me. sure WoW was my first MMO but I left because of the community and how simple the game became. applied training wheels and the level of maturity of the community plummeted. I then went to The Secret World. not as highly polished and at the time was quite a steep learning curve, TSW had the best community I had seen in game so far. but I moved on from TSW with fond memories, I was playing a few shooters around then so I thought Defiance was a good next choice.
now talk about judging, comparisons and hate!
I have enjoyed Defiance since launch but the bashing it got at launch was disgusting. (though I will say, blame the developers not the game itself). check out those forums for the cream of ranting and raving. and now I'm playing ESO. with the wisdom earned from witnessing all the short sighted comparison and QQ'n in the past, i have found the best opinion to trust is your own. if there are aspect that you suspect you would like then play it!
if you feel you wasted your money then that's on you!
ps. I blame the F**king pandas.
totally and utterly impossible.
THANK YOU....
This is what this thread has turned into. Upset customers complaining about a game they spent money on getting attacked by fans.
GG mmorpg.com.
The best thing you asked Op was if games are lazy and expect everything spoon fed to them. The simple fact is that they do expect everything to be spoon fed to them thanks to companies like Blizzard and ArenaNet who make games that only requires an IQ of 2 to understand.
It is also about how society has changed drastically. People want satisfaction right now within 2 seconds flat. if it takes any effort whatsoever then they are being inconvenienced and that to them is not going to work.
Just to give you an example of how true this is. I work in a deli. Did you know that deli meat is the #1 choice for lunch ? You ask yourself why, the answer is because it is quick and easy. Kids and even parents today do not want to cook. They do not want to do it the old fashioned way as in putting effort into anything. Society is lazy hence why we get mmos that are similar to arcade games.
I don't think many people 'hate' ESO, but I do think that a lot of players expected more.
Let's also not forget to point out that fanboys are just as much to blame for the current state of the genre. They will justify almost any payment model, overlook any bugs or polish issues, and will generally support mediocrity while calling out anyone who demands more from a game / developer.
Blah, blah, blah.
MMORPGs are not the ultra complex beasts that many think they are. They are not any more complex than distributed shopping systems like Amazon.com or the scheduling and packing systems that UPS use throughout their entire business structure. Google's entire network would make MMORPGs look like amateur hour.
The difference? when's the last time you couldn't place an order at Amazon? When's the last time you couldn't search for anything at Google?
That's the big leagues and they know they have to have premium quality control or people won't continue using their website and services. Imagine if half the time when someone visited Gmail to check their mail, they actually were logged into somebody else's mail account? That actually happened in ESO.
Imagine if when people checked their Gmail account, suddenly extra emails showed up. Imagine ordering 1 item from Amazon and getting sent 10? that analogous to item duping in ESO.
The issue? they cannot have such obvious bugs happen - new launch or not because that would be business damaging to Amazon or Google.
Imagine the financial liability if someone logged into their bank website - yet were allowed access to someone else's bank accounts. On top of that, they were able to transfer that guys money and spend it! It happened in ESO - banks would be sued if they let that happen. So - they employ premium quality control to make sure stuff like that doesn't happen when their systems go live.
MMORPG devs? bugs.. pfsshaw, our gamers just want CONTENT, we'll fix that crap later. Well guess what ESO? apparently your poor quality control is coming home to roost.
To be fair, that actually does happen with gmail.
"Is that really how we’re supposed to review our games? By comparing them to others? I thought a review was supposed to be solely based on our experience in the game itself not our experience in another title that shares nothing than the genre." What a ridiculous idea. Go over to IGN and see how often in their reviews they compare a game to a different game in that genre. Why would you NOT do this? A review is meant to inform your reader about the product they would be getting for their $60 (and sub fee in this case). So a good reviewer uses points of reference that the average reader is familiar with to communicate the similarities and differences. Does that make the review biased? No. It simply makes it thorough. A review of Titanfall that does not mention Call of Duty is simply not effectively communicating the game's features to the average reader. In the same way, a review of ESO that never mentions WoW is simply not communicating the features of the game effectively.
Reviews exist so that consumers can be informed for a purchase. The question being answered in every review is "How best can the consumer spend their $60?". The idea of fairness may be near and dear to you and Karl Marx, but to those of us that just want to use our $60 on something fun, fairness doesn't enter into it.
well if my opinion counts :
Its easy to hate a bad game.
Sadly this game is not so bad, its ok, most reviewers dont have problem with its quality, but about its price. Simply it DOESNT DESeRVES a subscription ...
They have some outdated and antisocial systems, like chests, gathering and a weird mechanic to res other people around you.. Such stuff because they existed in the past doesnt mean they are good and we can accept them again ...
Accepting monthly subscription for games like this, it is bad, cause then more publishers will release same stuff demanding subscriptions and at the end the whole genre will fall into the depths of the abyss ... Actually monthly subscription is a terrible payment model but anyway ...
This is the game that broke the camel's back for me.
It's not a bad game IMO in itself. It's just another game that doesn't really distinguish itself from others.
Yes the IP is Elder Scrolls - which I've loved since Arena, the GFX are ok, but after 20 hours playing it just felt "Oh, this game again"
You know what, I also realised that despite playing online multi user games (not all strictly MMO's) since MUD over Telnet in 1985, I've pretty much had enough of them.
I don't want to socialize in a game, I no longer want to play with strangers at all. I have a life, a business, a social life, I play sports and have a large family.
I've realised I turn my PC on to escape from people, not be confronted by faceless strangers.
I might play the odd hour of a game I already own here and there, but I feel ESO is the last theme park MMO I'll ever buy. It's one of the best, but It's also the one that made me realise that the whole "social gaming" thing isn't for me any more.
I would agree completely with the OP.
I would also add another word to the description.
Shills.
yes they are among us.
You cannot even remotely comment on the success or failure of an MMO at release. Everything about the game is totally skewed due to the massive influx of players. It's 6 months down the road that the "real" picture develops. All games are typically worth the box price, it's the long term investment down the road that is, and always has been, in question.
There is absolutely no denying the fact that the number one thing that players despise is a lack of players in their games. Since there is NEVER a lack of players at launch, there is no point in judging a game on what *may* happen. This includes the poo flingers as much as the fanbois. When it happens, you will know it. It won't take a cover story to tell you that it will happen, that it is happening, or that it has happened.
ESO is destined to follow the path that all MMOs have followed in the past and that all new MMOs will follow in the future. Player retention is the "publish or perish" of the MMO developers world. Even the great behemoth that is WoW cannot escape it.