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A thought or two about subscriptions [mod edit]
Seelinnikoi
Member RarePosts: 1,360
There are a lot of people on this site that very often complain about subscriptions to MMORPG's and they feel they dont want to pay to play...
[mod edit]
What is really the excuse of people hating subscriptions so much?
The only plausible reason would be that a monthly commitment would make them feel they wasted if they did not play all that frequently... but then again, if you manage to play at lease 2-3 hours of entertainment time per month from your MMO subscription, then you already had much more entertainment (price per minute/hour) than, for example, going to watch a movie or a concert...
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Comments
The only necessary, plausible reason is that they do not want to pay a subscription. It need not go any further than that.
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Edit : Comma.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
People are entitled to their opinions, if they don't like the payment model then they don't like the payment model deal with it.
granted seeing people complain about the payment model when a game has one they don't agree with is annoying.....but that works both ways and isn't limited to the p2p haters only.
The hate for subscription models mostly comes (atleast from my perspective) because the price tag isn't really justified by the content you get every 2-3 months and when you do get new content it's mostly in a form of expansion which you then have to pay for as well even tho you were paying 1 year of subscription.
I could even dare to say that if developers would justify the price of their subscription and box prices there wouldn't be such an outrage when a company announces they'll have a monthly sub + box price + expansion box prices (in most cases). Hell, nowadays we're getting half finished games with game breaking / progress blocking bugs on release day of mmorpgs and then they want you to pay a monthly sub while they are fixing those issues when you can't even play.
Even that might be OK if I'd get a fresh new content every 3-4 months (since if you calculate 15$ a month in 3-4 months is 45-60$, which is the price tag I payed for the initial content of the game). I don't care about things like paying to keep the infrastructure running or stuff like that because I'm not a charity and I pay to keep myself entertained and thus I don't find repeating content for 9-12 months over and over as fun and entertaining. Oh yeah, and as I mentioned, when you do get that new content you then have to pay for it again. The only game which I know is doing it right is EVE (and Rift had the same thing going) with free expansions.
It's not about if you HAVE money, it's about if you think the sub is WORTH THE MONEY! There's a difference and a huge one for that matter.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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Easy.
Because I want to pay for what I want, when I want. Not giving money to the developer in hopes of them delivering the content I want.
Nor do I want to pay the developer 15 bucks just to try out the new stuff they just added. Granted, in many cases sub games offer a "return for free" for a few days.
But it all boils down to choice, really. I could see myself paying a sub for a PvP or a Sandbox game for example (or a PvP Sandbox game). Because if the framework is there, I know I don't have to rely on developer content to keep myself entertained.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
There appear to be 3 types of MMO players, on one hand, there is the intelligent, well educated type, that play them to test their individual intelligence, and to have potential down time - escaping "mentally strenuous" work that they may have to do.
The second type, is the intelligent, but non-educated, that, play a game, because they need to express their intelligence in some particular way, and since they are not educated, they cannot do it in many other ways.
The third type of person, is a unintelligent and non-educated individual, that only has one or no, options, to either, work very hard in one particular mind numbingly, boring, yet practical job. The other is to not work at all. This type of person plays computer games only if they are working, or receiving a source of income, as they like to "escape" into a game where everything is equal.
The first type will play a computer game, as they can afford it and justify a reason to, these players will generally be sub based.
The second type of person, play a computer game, however they are less likely to justify playing a sub based one and will therefore pick a free to play alternative.
The third type of person will go one of two ways, either justify spending the money, and play a sub base game, for the complete immersion and experience of "escaping" into that virtual word, and the other way, is that they will not justify the price of a subscription, and go with a free to play alternative.
- Personally preference maybe, but my favorite type of people, are the ones that fit into the first category, henceforth, that is why, I like sub based games.
To an extent you are right. However they also are judging the source of entertainment and whether or not it warrants a subscription. They think because they have been around forever....paid some dues with subbing to not so good games that they deserve a 'good' game for free. Conversely the younger gamers are used to having free games and now just expect them all to be free because they never paid out sub fees.
My take is people that can't pay, don't want to pay should look for other forms of entertainment and other games. Its a business model, deal with it. Go post on a forum regarding the price of Gas.
Here's a few things for you to think about.
What if you have been trying to get a job for an extended period of time? Guess what, the job market sucks, and you can't 'just go get a job'. A business posts a single minimum wage position and gets over 300 applicants the first day. Yeah, getting a job isn't that easy in a lot of places, I'm glad you live somewhere that has more jobs than applicants. (Yes, that was sarcasm.)
I have a job, but damn, after paying for rent, utilities, food, etc, I'm lucky to have anything left. Hate to say it, but minimum wage is a joke if you have to live on it. And the old adage that rent shouldn't be more than 1/3rd of your income is NOT what the market is in most places. If you're on minimum wage, it's way too high for a rat hole. Sure that varies from place to place, but don't assume somebody with a job has oodles of spare cash.
What if I play more than one game? Let's see. I probably play several hours at a shot, probably several days a week if I play a lot online. But I have a half dozen games I like. Some days I'm in the mood for one thing, another day is something different. I get horribly bored if I keep playing the same thing over and over. So let's see, at $15 for each game, despite the fact that I have limited play time for each of them, that's $90 for those 6 games. That seems kind of high for the playtime I get. What if it's only 2 games, well that's $30, and you only get half the time on each despite paying the full price for both. Doesn't seem right to a lot of people, especially when they do the math.
Sorry OP, but your original statement was a bit, well, short sighted. Try taking in to consideration the situations others may be in, and cross check it with reality.
Get a job. Or even the old get a better paying job. Sheesh, if people could easily do that by wanting it there wouldn't be any unemployment or poor people. Too bad the economy doesn't work that way. Heck, it's almost as bad as telling someone they should have been born rich.
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...
The coin has so many sides it is rather a dice.
There are surely several types of players. Those who want everything free, be for lack of money or lack of will to pay. Those who were disappointed more than once by P2P games and therefore deny other games chances. Those who can not justify a sub if they do not have the time. Once again I claim a sub-ladder based on played time with a cap could solve this.
Of course you can say "50 cent a day", but only if you play every day. I played Anarchy Online, Rift when it was ub based, TSW when it was sub based and many times I found myself paying rather 15 bucks for 6 hours in a month (at least with Rift and TSW, had more time back in AO). So guys like me would pay, but with lack of time price isn't justified. It is not we can't pay, we have the money, we just don't see why to pay when we don't play (I sometimes paid 15 for not even a minute of playtime in some months). BUt I don't go to forums and lament about payment schemes, I just wait and see if a game I'm interested in goes F2P, if not.. Well there are other games.
There are also those people who would pay any price, regardless of what they get (Whales in F2P games). People whose games were shutdown benath their characters, people who believed in promises and found just a bugfeast and so on. Not willing to sub has many, many reasons, some go together with financial problems, some with no will to pay, some whose gametime sometimes doesn't justify a sub fee, some with higher expectations in quality and so on...
"Get a job" is a poor excuse for an argument and single-sided.
Sorry in your case stop playing games you can't afford spend that time increasing your prospects looking for a better job. Once you have that better paying job sit back crack open that beer you can now afford eat that steak dinner you can now afford play that video game you can now afford.
If you cannot afford $15 a month then you really should not be playing these games you should be working on improving your situation. (This is even more apparent when you start wanting to play multiple mmorpgs seriously get a grip if you can't afford it DON'T DO IT and maybe seek professional help with your addiction.)
I have been in that position and trust me getting out of it took a lot of work and time but ultimately worth it.
In what country are we talking about here?
Thats just it in a nutshell - It's never really "JUST" $15/month....
The game itself usually starts on the market at $59.99 until sales drop and so does price all the way down to $19.99 in most cases.
(which means that is actually what it's worth and company could have sold for without losing money)
Then you pay the subscription of 15/mo -- $180.00/year
So there's $239.00 out of your pocket for the first year..
Expansions - yep pay for those too most times as high as 29.99 or 39.99 - lets say the expansion does actually happen within the first year at $39.99 ok so thats $279.99 for the first year...
Then you have the cash shop or on some MMO's the Pay to win shop (example: chest key's - to open the cool loot chest only place you can get the key is from cash shop) Person's prerogative on how much they spend....
Now I know some of you are going to say well wait thats only $300.00/year - yeah less than $1.00/day
But others of us like myself for instance - I'm a retired Persian Gulf war Veteran with Kid still in High School (Thank god graduating this year) on a fixed income and I just so happen to like to play games with my time while sitting at home...And while I'm not hurting for cash I do have to limit what I can spend each month as with most "responsible" people...
So in the meantime you have companies loading up their cash cow's and charging people just to get into Alpha's and Beta's for games that will eventually be or already are Free to play games.....ridiculous..
I think of subscriptions as living in a gated community. You have a fixed cost to play the game that does not change or buy you any other additional advantages in the game. Everything you or any other players have is a result of the effort you put in. It keeps the 'rift-raff' out. Those who aren't willing to put in the time into the game and the community, expecting to be handed everything if they fork out some money.
I'm am curious if a developer will jump on the 'premium subscription' model, charging more than the traditional 14.99 a month to cater to a more elite crowd that is willing to pay more for a better game. But that in the end would depend on the quality of the game itself.
Considering that a single day of commuting to work for me, costs more than a monthly subscription. I am more concerned about the quality of the game than anything else.
its more the fact that I cant/dont want to devote as much time that I feel is neccissary to each one, in order to justify paying a subscription. Its better to have one and a F2P on the side I can jump in and out of, and maybe drop $5-10 here and there as I see fit.
*edit* oops, I thought this thread was about having 2 subscriptions XD
Money is not the problem. It is the feeling of obligation to put time into the game when I do not have the time to spare. I'd almost rather purchase a small block of hours for the weeks I do have ample time to play that way on the weeks I do not have much (or any) I don't feel bad for paying for something I am not utilizing.
The whole argument of $0.50 a day is crap too. The real amount is the subscription cost divided by the number of days you actually play. While that still does not boil down to a lot of money it is still a more accurate representation of the amount of money you are paying with utilizing the game.
Aside from a lot of really good answers as to why people would not want to pay a subscription, there is also a psychological effect associated with the commitment of a recurring subscription that makes it harder for me to justify it.
In fact, I often paid more/equivalent money in games that do not require a subscription - but I felt it was at my own pace.
And with these non sub games, I am always paying *after* a week or two of gaming to give back to the game I enjoyed playing.
Never or rarely *before* - since I'm not really able to know if I will be able to play the following month or not (or if the game will keep me interested for that long).
I don't necessarily believe that they can't pay, but have more of a philosophical problem with it. I prefer PtP, but many truly believe that FtP is the best model. There is also a segment that is young and simply can't get jobs or earn money. For them, FtP is a Win/Win.
I self identify as a monkey.
I don't think it so much comes down to being able to afford it. For example I could quite happily afford to pay many subscriptions and have done in the past my problem comes down to this if I'm paying a subscription there are basics things I expect to receive as part of that subscription and If I don't receive them then I will vote with my wallet sick to death of mediocre games trying to get you to subscribe. GW2 set a bench mark for me if they can produce something of that quality for free then I'm not willing to subscribe unless I feel it offers far more than GW2.
Just a few things I consider are a must if your charging a subscription
GM support and I mean ingame GM's I will not except having to create a total separate account on another website to get any support. If I'm paying you money I expect in game GM's doing there jobs.
Bugs and fix's I expect there to be maintenance at least once a week and for the dev team to actively be squashing and fixing bugs and if they cant fix them at least keep people informed of what the help is happening.
I expect rampant bots and goldsellers to be dealt with swiftly this comes back to GM's in game GM's help a lot with this.
The list could go on and on. Its simple if you expect people to give you a subscription fee then you should be providing a top notch service.
This I can agree with if your paying a subscription fee I do expect that a portion of that fee is allocated to support such as GMS, Development for new content etc.
"I don't want to" and "I cannot" are two different things.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
There's truth in this.
Now what I'm about to talk about is anecdotal, but I've seen enough people in these games to know a bit about income and play patterns. I've been from UO, to EQ2, to SWG, to EVE to CoH. What I can tell you is that unemployment and expense are no barriers to subscription-based games. In fact, people on unemployment or fixed incomes LOVE subscription-based games, because this is a bill they can anticipate and control on a fixed income.
What's more, people on the rocks, financially, are much more likely to upgrade their accounts over the guy who has it together. It makes sense. If the game is the only good thing you have, you tend to make that thing as good as possible. If you have other things going on, the game comes secondary. The guy who has two nickels to rub together tends to take his vacation time going on a real vacation. He also logs out to see a show, or goes out. The guy who doesn't tends to spend his vacation time in the game; it's easier that way and less expensive.
That doesn't mean they don't cut back if things get real desperate. If they were running two accounts, they might cancel an alt. But I don't know of one person who cancelled a main because of financial hardship. Not one. I have, however, known of people who cancelled the main because of a new job, or school, or some other opportunity. And if you think about it, this makes sense. A lot of times, people come to these things because of some tragedy in their lives or a loss of daily routine. When things get moving again, they have no need for the game.
A lot of times, people need to keep themselves occupied until things get moving again in their lives, and this can take many forms. Waiting for school, waiting for a new job, getting well after a sickness or injury or getting over some loss are all reasons people jump into these games. When life knocks you for a loop, it is only natural to delve into fantasy. Is it wrong to do that? I think it is one of the most human things a person can do.
But the way they see things, they look at it like this: "I can go to the bar and spend much more than I have, or I can do this for," as one person said, "50 cents a day." It is hard, damn hard, to stare at the same four walls while you wait for things to get moving again. And so, people are loathe to give up something like an MMO, which gives them some meaning and purpose in a reality where their lives are on hold. Should they? Shouldn't they? That's not for me to decide for them, but I do understand why they throw themselves into these things like they do. As far as I'm concerned, it's much better than booze, gambling or drugs.
No, I don't think the whole "I can't afford a sub" argument is the whole story. Frankly, I think the whole F2P phenomena is more about making the games accessible to minors, who may not have credit, debit, PayPal or access to game cards. It is secondarily about making the game accessible to non-traditional gamers, gamers with means, who may be intimidated by a paywall. But I don't see these F2P games as a response to gamers with a fixed income; those on a fixed income are looking for a fixed price, and are looking for a point of stability in an otherwise unstable reality. It is one less variable for them to consider.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE