I really tried to like Wildstar, I dont mind the cartoony, I dont mind the WOW quest hub style that much, but what I really, really hated was
This is your weapon type, you picked this class, its all you get, decision they made, It was my biggest issue with TERA as well, I just think its so lazy on developers. I know there is a slight bit of variation on weapons in WS but not really.
I just dont understand how a game made in 1997 (Asheron's Call) could get weapons so right, and games nowadays just seem so lazy
It's called a "design decision". Go look it up.
As for AC? Can you possibly think of one thing WildStar does better than AC, and go call the AC devs lay and stupid for not thinking or implementing that thing?
And are you going around calling ESO lazy because they do not have 20/40 man PvE raids?
In some games "design decision" is a valid reason why multiple weapons are not in game but in many more it is more accurately the company being cheap and wanting to cut costs.
Maybe, so what makes you feel wildstar fit sunder the cheap/cost cutting category?. I actually would like to know, because so far people have given reasons to why they think it was a "design decision", but haven't had anything to why it's cheap other than, "it's 2014" and "other games have done it", nothing wrong with those answers, but they don't really justify why it's cheap
Edit: Just saw the link above which was something i was worried about, which was that they might just have the same weps with not many variations like the sorc wep in Tera. So i'm happy with that
Why would you assume its lazy? Unless they have stated the intent behind it. I could easily assume its more related for more weapon models, etc, etc.
But i personally dont care. Its a weapon. I look at it only when its on my back. and even then, im not thinking, god i hate this weapon. Its more, he check out the awesome stats this weapon has. Thats all i care about.
yah I understand, alot of people dont care. I for one like having the choice of playing my Priests with a dagger/orb, or shield+mace or 2h staff, or 2h mace in general, I like being given options
It's amusing that your perception of choice and list of weapon options are based on the weapon restrictions of WoW.
actually its not, it was more based off the most recent game I played which was RIFT. I should have called them Clerics. I dont recall any priests ever using a shield+mace in WOW
but as a man who uses Loktofeit at a username, my origin in RPG's is from Wizardry
I really tried to like Wildstar, I dont mind the cartoony, I dont mind the WOW quest hub style that much, but what I really, really hated was
This is your weapon type, you picked this class, its all you get, decision they made, It was my biggest issue with TERA as well, I just think its so lazy on developers. I know there is a slight bit of variation on weapons in WS but not really.
I just dont understand how a game made in 1997 (Asheron's Call) could get weapons so right, and games nowadays just seem so lazy
It's called a "design decision". Go look it up.
As for AC? Can you possibly think of one thing WildStar does better than AC, and go call the AC devs lay and stupid for not thinking or implementing that thing?
And are you going around calling ESO lazy because they do not have 20/40 man PvE raids?
its a poor design decision, one that you will find most of the mmo community agreeing one.
As far as AC, considering that the game was developed in 1997, no there is not 1 thing that Wildstar does better than AC, when given a 17 yr headstart., couple that with the FACT that AC had a content patch EVERY SINGLE MONTH FOR 14 straight years, something you will never see again likely, I could never call the AC devs Lazy
I wont call ESO lazy either, cause they are making large scale pve content as we speak
like I said though personally I hate being type cast into 1 weapon my entire life of my character, and it is a game breaker for me, others may not care.
I really tried to like Wildstar, I dont mind the cartoony, I dont mind the WOW quest hub style that much, but what I really, really hated was
This is your weapon type, you picked this class, its all you get, decision they made, It was my biggest issue with TERA as well, I just think its so lazy on developers. I know there is a slight bit of variation on weapons in WS but not really.
I just dont understand how a game made in 1997 (Asheron's Call) could get weapons so right, and games nowadays just seem so lazy
It's called a "design decision". Go look it up.
As for AC? Can you possibly think of one thing WildStar does better than AC, and go call the AC devs lay and stupid for not thinking or implementing that thing?
And are you going around calling ESO lazy because they do not have 20/40 man PvE raids?
its a poor design decision, one that you will find most of the mmo community agreeing one.
As far as AC, considering that the game was developed in 1997, no there is not 1 thing that Wildstar does better than AC, when given a 17 yr headstart., couple that with the FACT that AC had a content patch EVERY SINGLE MONTH FOR 14 straight years, something you will never see again likely, I could never call the AC devs Lazy
I wont call ESO lazy either, cause they are making large scale pve content as we speak
like I said though personally I hate being type cast into 1 weapon my entire life of my character, and it is a game breaker for me, others may not care.
You're spending ten dollars of emotion on a 1 cent problem dude. If you're suggesting that WildStar lacks diversity in how players can play their characters, you don't understand the game. Getting miffed because a warrior can't equip a Psyblade is just silly.
Its not stupid if it is gamebreaking to that particular individual. Me personally I could care less since you never look at your toon in this game anyways. Might as well make every character a cross hair since all you are playing is shapes and color patterns on the ground.
Easy solution then: Go find another game. Wildstar isn't for you. Good luck out there.
You do understand that if all of you WS supporters say that, then your player base will shrink considerably. Not just form those who are told to move on, also form those who read the reply and base there judgement solely on that.
Fact of the matter is WS has a ton of glaring problems, when others who might be interested in playing it, want to discuss these issues at length, the white knights of WS swoop in and tell those who have concerns to leave, and not to play.
Discussion is beneficial towards the testing of a new game, i think somewhere this has been lost on gamers as of late.
Easy solution then: Go find another game. Wildstar isn't for you. Good luck out there.
You do understand that if all of you WS supporters say that, then your player base will shrink considerably. Not just form those who are told to move on, also form those who read the reply and base there judgement solely on that.
Fact of the matter is WS has a ton of glaring problems, when others who might be interested in playing it, want to discuss these issues at length, the white knights of WS swoop in and tell those who have concerns to leave, and not to play.
Discussion is beneficial towards the testing of a new game, i think somewhere this has been lost on gamers as of late.
You are under the impression that everyone here can actually take part in a conversation.
Most people just expose negative or positive comments and will never change their mind... or at least not admit it publicly.
So let's not pretend that, for instance you, through conversation, will change your mind that Wildstar is boring and "has a ton of glaring problems" (a ton?... really?).
You have some seriously fanatic posts against Wildstar yet here you are preaching conversation. Come on... there' s really no need for hypocrisy. Enjoy Archeage and let other people enjoy Wildstar.
I guess it is a matter of taste... The idea behind it is called "iconic silhouette" basically you should be able to tall class/spec from the look of the character. So by locking class to weapon they can make it very easy to identify a class and you can set a "personality" to the animations.
Ofc it does kill some of the visual options.
The character's just basically swings away, I dont really see this personality aspect when playing, and if there is, I dont think it would be a huge deal to allow more weapon types and modify the animations just a little to suit the new weapon set.
its laziness, cost cutting measure, that simple, no more no less
Perhaps, consider for a moment, that streamlining certain aspects of the game allows for quicker creation of new content for said game, for example, having warriors always use 2 handed swords with animations to match those allow you to create far more of those weapons in greater variety quicker and easier. It makes your game far more agile when it comes to the development pipeline, and a MASSIVE part of Wildstar is it's claim it can produce content faster than WoW.
@OP ; yes, we understand you wish there were more choices and animations, we also know about how many animations and choices Asheron's Call and Ever Quest and Ultima Online had, but we also all remember now that games these days have far more animations per frame, far more graphics, and far longer development cycles due to being levels more complex when it comes to the back end systems.
There was a sacrifice to be made to have speed and agility for the development team, and that was not having multiple weapons and animations. There was a cost benefit analysis and it was judged that this way was better.
Ahh AC1, sigh.... but to the topic at hand, I agree though in todays day and age of gaming when a game limits you to something to this degree it takes away too much personal choice which ends up with a negative affect. Most games say you can use only these weapons. a, b, c etc. Kind of the same thing but less limiting.
I really don't see the problem, to be honest. Weapon Restrictions have existed since Dungeons and Dragons. They were in Everquest, WoW, Everquest 2, and so on. Maybe I'm just old school. While I would prefer a wider range of weapon choices, I can deal with a single choice. For the most part, weapons allow you to do damage and are stat sticks.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Originally posted by Roguewiz Weapon Restrictions have existed since Dungeons and Dragons.
Perhaps the first edition. From AD&D on, you don't have weapon restriction (I don't know if there is in 4th edition, but 4th edition is no more D&D). A mage can use a sword (with penalities), or a cleric can multiclass in mage and use arcane spells and mage staves / wands, and so on.
Wildstar is a WoW-clone and so it has fixed classes, this is something old just like Everquest and WoW and new MMO should give more freedom to players, just like The Elder Scrolls Online. Your character must not be defined with a starting choice. You as the player should be the one who decides how to grow and develop the character, without big limits and restrictions.
I really tried to like Wildstar, I dont mind the cartoony, I dont mind the WOW quest hub style that much, but what I really, really hated was
This is your weapon type, you picked this class, its all you get, decision they made, It was my biggest issue with TERA as well, I just think its so lazy on developers. I know there is a slight bit of variation on weapons in WS but not really.
This is actually one of my biggest complaints about WS so far, but in a way it's a compliment that something so trivial is on the top of my list of complaints.
It bothered me in games like Swtor and Tera, but I'll get used to it. The biggest problem it causes is my launch indecision. I played several classes to 15-20 in the betas and still don't know what class I really want to focus on. I'll be messing around on a stalker and a warrior runs by.. "AHH I WANT TO USE A BIG SWORD NOW!!!". Or I'll be on a spellslinger and an engineer will run by....
Originally posted by Entinerint There are "reasons" and then there are "excuses." I think you'll find this falls into the latter category.It's an outdated, pointless and arbitrary mechanic which only serves as the path of least resistance for developers and class balance.
You mistake reasons for bias. Pretty much confirmed with your 2nd paragraph.
Originally posted by Asm0deus In some games "design decision" is a valid reason why multiple weapons are not in game but in many more it is more accurately the company being cheap and wanting to cut costs.
You happen to use "cut costs" a lot, without understanding what cutting costs actually mean - just because they do not implement /input your desired feature/ does not mean they are "cutting costs".
I think what it boils down to these days is there are two types of players. Players who just play for the simple gaming mechanics, and players who want to be unique and have lots of customization options. No one wants to look like someone else and share layouts with 3647462 other people. I would prefer a game with no specific classes and the ability to train in different areas/weapons. Oh well. Here's to another MMO that couldn't satisfy the masses.
I really tried to like Wildstar, I dont mind the cartoony, I dont mind the WOW quest hub style that much, but what I really, really hated was
This is your weapon type, you picked this class, its all you get, decision they made, It was my biggest issue with TERA as well, I just think its so lazy on developers. I know there is a slight bit of variation on weapons in WS but not really.
I just dont understand how a game made in 1997 (Asheron's Call) could get weapons so right, and games nowadays just seem so lazy
limiting a whole class to a single weapon also limits the whole class to a single role. Thats my biggest issue in both Tera and WildStar as well. In my personal opinion, that alone makes the game worth F2P. Even those offer more options nowadays though.
In some games "design decision" is a valid reason why multiple weapons are not in game but in many more it is more accurately the company being cheap and wanting to cut costs.
You happen to use "cut costs" a lot, without understanding what cutting costs actually mean - just because they do not implement /input your desired feature/ does not mean they are "cutting costs".
Everyone likes to assume the company with no revenue streams for the last 5+ years has an unlimited budget
limiting a whole class to a single weapon also limits the whole class to a single role.
How so? A mage in Rift can tank, heal, dps, or support with a staff. Yes, they could equip other weapons if they wanted but its not necessary to do multiple roles.
Why would you assume its lazy? Unless they have stated the intent behind it. I could easily assume its more related for more weapon models, etc, etc.
But i personally dont care. Its a weapon. I look at it only when its on my back. and even then, im not thinking, god i hate this weapon. Its more, he check out the awesome stats this weapon has. Thats all i care about.
yah I understand, alot of people dont care. I for one like having the choice of playing my Priests with a dagger/orb, or shield+mace or 2h staff, or 2h mace in general, I like being given options
It's amusing that your perception of choice and list of weapon options are based on the weapon restrictions of WoW.
actually its not, it was more based off the most recent game I played which was RIFT. I should have called them Clerics. I dont recall any priests ever using a shield+mace in WOW
but as a man who uses Loktofeit at a username, my origin in RPG's is from Wizardry
Yeah, a lot of games copied those weapon conventions over and over, and I think we all got used to them. Dagger, for example... took me a while to get used to a priest with a bladed weapon simply because my previous class-based RPG experience said that was a no-no and my skill-based RPG experiences pretty much said 'wait, only guy can heal everyone?'
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Why do MMORPGs always have to cut good stuff for no apparant reason?
Rift: "hey, we give you great animations for different weapons and stuff. Replayability? Screw you! One starting zone for each faction and the rest of the game is basically on rails as well."
WildStar: "Housing? We can give you that. For a price. No different weapons for you."
Why?
Well, of course I know why: money. Anything you can leave away saves time and thus money. Still, this sucks.
To compare this WoW, since the games are somewhat similar: I loved it when I got a new weapon in WoW. Maybe I had been using a shield and sword, and now I got a huge polearm or two handed mace, with different animations and sound effects when hitting the opponent, and different mechanics often as well.
Or maybe I was wielding this huge staff around with one character, and then found a glowing sword to equip. Luckily I still had this mystical orb on the back to hold in the other hand.
Or having for the first time a crossbow or fist weapon or gun. Those were great moments.
limiting a whole class to a single weapon also limits the whole class to a single role.
How so? A mage in Rift can tank, heal, dps, or support with a staff. Yes, they could equip other weapons if they wanted but its not necessary to do multiple roles.
you answered your own question. The class can multi role and also can use different types of weapons. Using a single weapon in Rift is just your preference, it is totally possible to use a magic sword and tome instead of a staff in Rift and have any of the three roles. In WS you are stuck with a single role and a single weapon because you dont have a choice or preference, you are stuck with a single thing. That was my point.
Comments
Maybe, so what makes you feel wildstar fit sunder the cheap/cost cutting category?. I actually would like to know, because so far people have given reasons to why they think it was a "design decision", but haven't had anything to why it's cheap other than, "it's 2014" and "other games have done it", nothing wrong with those answers, but they don't really justify why it's cheap
Edit: Just saw the link above which was something i was worried about, which was that they might just have the same weps with not many variations like the sorc wep in Tera. So i'm happy with that
actually its not, it was more based off the most recent game I played which was RIFT. I should have called them Clerics. I dont recall any priests ever using a shield+mace in WOW
but as a man who uses Loktofeit at a username, my origin in RPG's is from Wizardry
its a poor design decision, one that you will find most of the mmo community agreeing one.
As far as AC, considering that the game was developed in 1997, no there is not 1 thing that Wildstar does better than AC, when given a 17 yr headstart., couple that with the FACT that AC had a content patch EVERY SINGLE MONTH FOR 14 straight years, something you will never see again likely, I could never call the AC devs Lazy
I wont call ESO lazy either, cause they are making large scale pve content as we speak
like I said though personally I hate being type cast into 1 weapon my entire life of my character, and it is a game breaker for me, others may not care.
I can't imagine why a Warrier would ever want to use Stalker Claws or Resonators.
You're spending ten dollars of emotion on a 1 cent problem dude. If you're suggesting that WildStar lacks diversity in how players can play their characters, you don't understand the game. Getting miffed because a warrior can't equip a Psyblade is just silly.
You do understand that if all of you WS supporters say that, then your player base will shrink considerably. Not just form those who are told to move on, also form those who read the reply and base there judgement solely on that.
Fact of the matter is WS has a ton of glaring problems, when others who might be interested in playing it, want to discuss these issues at length, the white knights of WS swoop in and tell those who have concerns to leave, and not to play.
Discussion is beneficial towards the testing of a new game, i think somewhere this has been lost on gamers as of late.
Lolipops !
You are under the impression that everyone here can actually take part in a conversation.
Most people just expose negative or positive comments and will never change their mind... or at least not admit it publicly.
So let's not pretend that, for instance you, through conversation, will change your mind that Wildstar is boring and "has a ton of glaring problems" (a ton?... really?).
You have some seriously fanatic posts against Wildstar yet here you are preaching conversation. Come on... there' s really no need for hypocrisy. Enjoy Archeage and let other people enjoy Wildstar.
..Cake..
The character's just basically swings away, I dont really see this personality aspect when playing, and if there is, I dont think it would be a huge deal to allow more weapon types and modify the animations just a little to suit the new weapon set.
Perhaps, consider for a moment, that streamlining certain aspects of the game allows for quicker creation of new content for said game, for example, having warriors always use 2 handed swords with animations to match those allow you to create far more of those weapons in greater variety quicker and easier. It makes your game far more agile when it comes to the development pipeline, and a MASSIVE part of Wildstar is it's claim it can produce content faster than WoW.
@OP ; yes, we understand you wish there were more choices and animations, we also know about how many animations and choices Asheron's Call and Ever Quest and Ultima Online had, but we also all remember now that games these days have far more animations per frame, far more graphics, and far longer development cycles due to being levels more complex when it comes to the back end systems.
There was a sacrifice to be made to have speed and agility for the development team, and that was not having multiple weapons and animations. There was a cost benefit analysis and it was judged that this way was better.
Ahh AC1, sigh.... but to the topic at hand, I agree though in todays day and age of gaming when a game limits you to something to this degree it takes away too much personal choice which ends up with a negative affect. Most games say you can use only these weapons. a, b, c etc. Kind of the same thing but less limiting.
Yea, disappointment ... Get used to it. I have a feeling you're going to experience a ton of it in the near future.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Perhaps the first edition. From AD&D on, you don't have weapon restriction (I don't know if there is in 4th edition, but 4th edition is no more D&D). A mage can use a sword (with penalities), or a cleric can multiclass in mage and use arcane spells and mage staves / wands, and so on.
Wildstar is a WoW-clone and so it has fixed classes, this is something old just like Everquest and WoW and new MMO should give more freedom to players, just like The Elder Scrolls Online. Your character must not be defined with a starting choice. You as the player should be the one who decides how to grow and develop the character, without big limits and restrictions.
This is actually one of my biggest complaints about WS so far, but in a way it's a compliment that something so trivial is on the top of my list of complaints.
It bothered me in games like Swtor and Tera, but I'll get used to it. The biggest problem it causes is my launch indecision. I played several classes to 15-20 in the betas and still don't know what class I really want to focus on. I'll be messing around on a stalker and a warrior runs by.. "AHH I WANT TO USE A BIG SWORD NOW!!!". Or I'll be on a spellslinger and an engineer will run by....
You mistake reasons for bias. Pretty much confirmed with your 2nd paragraph.
You happen to use "cut costs" a lot, without understanding what cutting costs actually mean - just because they do not implement /input your desired feature/ does not mean they are "cutting costs".
Getting too old for this $&17!
limiting a whole class to a single weapon also limits the whole class to a single role. Thats my biggest issue in both Tera and WildStar as well. In my personal opinion, that alone makes the game worth F2P. Even those offer more options nowadays though.
Everyone likes to assume the company with no revenue streams for the last 5+ years has an unlimited budget
How so? A mage in Rift can tank, heal, dps, or support with a staff. Yes, they could equip other weapons if they wanted but its not necessary to do multiple roles.
Yeah, a lot of games copied those weapon conventions over and over, and I think we all got used to them. Dagger, for example... took me a while to get used to a priest with a bladed weapon simply because my previous class-based RPG experience said that was a no-no and my skill-based RPG experiences pretty much said 'wait, only guy can heal everyone?'
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I agree that this sucks.
Why do MMORPGs always have to cut good stuff for no apparant reason?
Rift: "hey, we give you great animations for different weapons and stuff. Replayability? Screw you! One starting zone for each faction and the rest of the game is basically on rails as well."
WildStar: "Housing? We can give you that. For a price. No different weapons for you."
Why?
Well, of course I know why: money. Anything you can leave away saves time and thus money. Still, this sucks.
To compare this WoW, since the games are somewhat similar: I loved it when I got a new weapon in WoW. Maybe I had been using a shield and sword, and now I got a huge polearm or two handed mace, with different animations and sound effects when hitting the opponent, and different mechanics often as well.
Or maybe I was wielding this huge staff around with one character, and then found a glowing sword to equip. Luckily I still had this mystical orb on the back to hold in the other hand.
Or having for the first time a crossbow or fist weapon or gun. Those were great moments.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
you answered your own question. The class can multi role and also can use different types of weapons.
Using a single weapon in Rift is just your preference, it is totally possible to use a magic sword and tome instead of a staff in Rift and have any of the three roles. In WS you are stuck with a single role and a single weapon because you dont have a choice or preference, you are stuck with a single thing. That was my point.
And your point was rebutted.
So no, weapon limitation does not imply role limitation.