Originally posted by Aeonblades Some people can't handle a mostly PvE story driven MMO with an emphasis on community and teamwork. Think of it as weeding out the unwanteds. Your guild is most likely better off with them gone rather than hearing them whine about how it's not WoW or (insert other game here).
PVE story driven game for sure but community and teamwork describing ESO? I'm sorry but it's hard to believe.
Shrug, It's the best social experience I have had in an MMO community since the original EQ Pre-PoP. A community only works if you actively participate, it's not going to just form around you, you have to strike up chat and friendships on your own.
You can say the same about any MMO, what makes this so special? Based on what you're saying, the game is definitely not emphasizing community and teamwork but you have to make it happen. That's what I'm trying to say. I'm sorry but that's how I felt when I played this game. I'm glad you're enjoying it and making friends.
Originally posted by Aeonblades Some people can't handle a mostly PvE story driven MMO with an emphasis on community and teamwork. Think of it as weeding out the unwanteds. Your guild is most likely better off with them gone rather than hearing them whine about how it's not WoW or (insert other game here).
PVE story driven game for sure but community and teamwork describing ESO? I'm sorry but it's hard to believe.
Shrug, It's the best social experience I have had in an MMO community since the original EQ Pre-PoP. A community only works if you actively participate, it's not going to just form around you, you have to strike up chat and friendships on your own.
You can say the same about any MMO, what makes this so special?
I found this game very unsocial. Between the phasing and node phasing, to many solo quests you cant help with it was just easier to solo. Dungeons giving very bad loot, so why do them? But this was how the devs wanted it to make you feel powerful and important, to do that you had to do some of it alone. (((shrugs)))
Sort of the reason why I solo the first couple of months, first want to see the community settle before joining a guild.
Have seen this in almost any MMORPG where many will leave after free month (30day's) or 2/3 months. I'll wait till 3 to 6 month if I am staying before getting into a guild.
I played to about level 20, just wasnt having fun so i left, sure i could of forced myself to keep playing under the guise of itll get better soon, but honestly after that long it wasnt going to get any more fun for me.
To each their own though, (im sure some of those deleted had the same feelings as me), its not a bad game just not a game for me. cheers.
p.s. Not getting my pre order things didnt help my desire to stay either :P
The most two reasons I see match what I said in the main post. People want to level as a group in some form, weather it be dungeons or pvp. Zenimax must see this on thier data gathering, Its strange they have not made this possible yet. The second is shorter leveling for veteran ranks. Almost every single post screams I hate playing solo and I want shorter vetern levels.
1. So many past games have offerned the ability to litterally level up in dungeons at a decent pace. If your sick of quests why not have this in game right now, when its one of the top reasons people are leaving the game?
2. Whats wrong with shorter Veteran Ranks? If the only reason is because it skips content, then find a way to revamp that content in end game. This should also be priority level one with Zenimax dev team at the moment, one of the other top reasons poeple are leaving.
I'll agree the retention rate is pretty high still in game, but Zenimax must be seeing this in thier data, If I was game director this would be my TOP 2 priorities at a game director. If Matt Frior cannot get this done, I think the big man in corprate will have to step in and bless Paul Sage with Emperor, (sry Matt, I'm sure your working on this hard as I speak.)
I think a LOT of the initial draw was for the PvP and a lot of people saw the arduous PvE as an entry fee for the PvP.. As we progressed in the PvE and as more VR10s started joining PvP, it became apparent just how steep the entry fee actually was... Way too rich for my blood.
I think ESO 1-50 is a great experience. It may not be as Multiplayer as some people want in a MMO but it's still worth playing if you like a good theme park ride experience. The VR levels are horrible. The sense of progression isn't there, the sense of connection to your faction isn't there, the sense of being part of a grand adventure isn't there. It's all about fetch and kill quests and slogging though one zone after another to get to VR10 now VR12.
Originally posted by Aeonblades Some people can't handle a mostly PvE story driven MMO with an emphasis on community and teamwork. Think of it as weeding out the unwanteds. Your guild is most likely better off with them gone rather than hearing them whine about how it's not WoW or (insert other game here).
PVE story driven game for sure but community and teamwork describing ESO? I'm sorry but it's hard to believe.
Shrug, It's the best social experience I have had in an MMO community since the original EQ Pre-PoP. A community only works if you actively participate, it's not going to just form around you, you have to strike up chat and friendships on your own.
You can say the same about any MMO, what makes this so special?
I found this game very unsocial. Between the phasing and node phasing, to many solo quests you cant help with it was just easier to solo. Dungeons giving very bad loot, so why do them? But this was how the devs wanted it to make you feel powerful and important, to do that you had to do some of it alone. (((shrugs)))
Each Dungeon gives you one skill point for doing the quest inside them.
The most two reasons I see match what I said in the main post. People want to level as a group in some form, weather it be dungeons or pvp. Zenimax must see this on thier data gathering, Its strange they have not made this possible yet. The second is shorter leveling for veteran ranks. Almost every single post screams I hate playing solo and I want shorter vetern levels.
1. So many past games have offerned the ability to litterally level up in dungeons at a decent pace. If your sick of quests why not have this in game right now, when its one of the top reasons people are leaving the game?
2. Whats wrong with shorter Veteran Ranks? If the only reason is because it skips content, then find a way to revamp that content in end game. This should also be priority level one with Zenimax dev team at the moment, one of the other top reasons poeple are leaving.
I'll agree the retention rate is pretty high still in game, but Zenimax must be seeing this in thier data, If I was game director this would be my TOP 2 priorities at a game director. If Matt Frior cannot get this done, I think the big man in corprate will have to step in and bless Paul Sage with Emperor, (sry Matt, I'm sure your working on this hard as I speak.)
Even if the data does show that "many people are leaving because they want to level in groups", do you really think ZOS are going to fundamentally rework their core game design, build it, test it and roll it out on the live servers in a matter of 2 or 3 weeks ? Lol...
Most likely the anecdotal evidence presented by individual players to "prove their theories" is simply wrong. ZOS have full access to the game metrics, so they know exactly what everyone is doing all the time ingame. They also know who plays when and for how long.
If there are any changes made to ESO's game play, it will most likely be driven by the server data analysis, backed-up with exit surveys and collated forum data from a range of sources. And it will take many months before it's implemented. It might even be a case of "let's wait and see how the console version performs before we start redesigning the game..."
Its called Wildstar came out and all the sheep jumped to the " next big thing " hoping and praying its the best MMO ever and will keep them busy longer than a month or 2.
but deep down they know better and will be back on the forums bashing the games they purchase over and over praising the next big shinny as the best MMO because its not out yet.
I find soulless guilds tend to suffer the worst burn outs. Those mega guilds that invite everyone but no one ever talks to each other are little better than a /block guild invite command. Seeing large numbers of those people leave a game means nothing. Those are the mmo tourists that leave every game after the first month or two.
MMO players tend to be transient creatures, staying for a month or two before moving onto the next big and shiny.
ESO is not unique in this regards, I think every single MMO I've played in the last five years has had to do this shortly after launch.
We only lost 26% since launch, thats a retention rate of 74% which I think has been incredibly great so far.
With a 26% drop off inside the first two months, another way of looking at that statistic is that your guild will be empty by the time the game has been out for around 8 months...
MMO players tend to be transient creatures, staying for a month or two before moving onto the next big and shiny.
ESO is not unique in this regards, I think every single MMO I've played in the last five years has had to do this shortly after launch.
We only lost 26% since launch, thats a retention rate of 74% which I think has been incredibly great so far.
With a 26% drop off inside the first two months, another way of looking at that statistic is that your guild will be empty by the time the game has been out for around 8 months...
Thank you for that astonishing exercise in mathematics BetaBlocka. If you are retaining 74% you are on solid ground, you can still be expanding in fact as the content locusts leave at the one too two month point. They are already moving onto Wildstar, where they will stay for one or two months before they do "Why I am leaving" threads. Good riddance.
Looking at BetaBlocka's past posts I see has already moved on to Wildstar, but still feels the need to give us his wonderful insights here. Thanks for that.
MMO players tend to be transient creatures, staying for a month or two before moving onto the next big and shiny.
ESO is not unique in this regards, I think every single MMO I've played in the last five years has had to do this shortly after launch.
We only lost 26% since launch, thats a retention rate of 74% which I think has been incredibly great so far.
With a 26% drop off inside the first two months, another way of looking at that statistic is that your guild will be empty by the time the game has been out for around 8 months...
Thank you for that astonishing exercise in mathematics BetaBlocka. If you are retaining 74% you are on solid ground, you can still be expanding in fact as the content locusts leave at the one too two month point. They are already moving onto Wildstar, where they will stay for one or two months before they do "Why I am leaving" threads. Good riddance.
Looking at BetaBlocka's past posts I see has already moved on to Wildstar, but still feels the need to give us his wonderful insights here. Thanks for that.
You seem to have a thing with combining the words "content locusts" and "Wildstar' in one sentence.
I also find it very amusing that you're quoting mathematics in a Knotwood thread.
MMO players tend to be transient creatures, staying for a month or two before moving onto the next big and shiny.
ESO is not unique in this regards, I think every single MMO I've played in the last five years has had to do this shortly after launch.
cause most players trying to find the same happiness as this one of "the first time" well you know this is wrong and false ...
i personally got sticked with GW2 since release and i still play it ... but i am also able to take some breaks for WoT or HAWKEN. The same was for Lineage 2 or Aion online.
those who are not satisfied, and log out after one month they will never be satisfied ...
about ESO it is a bad game with even worse release, many thought that it might be better than the demo-weekend betas, but it wasnt ... i also tried Wildstar, it was better although out of my preferences, i didint gone to buy it, but i knew its a far worthy game than ESO for a b2p (subscriptions is almost a scam for themeparks ... )
Originally posted by Reham79 Maybe it was poor leadership . On a serious 130 toons not players, could only be 20 players with a bunch of alts.
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by Herzy Assume they rerolled.
This.
While i think there are probably many reasons for not wanting to stay in the game, its fairly certain that quite a few will perhaps have been unhappy with their 'builds' or even aesthetic of a particular toon they created, and just decided to make a new one, happens in lots of games, and lots of people are just altaholics.
Originally posted by bingbongbros
Originally posted by Reham79 Maybe it was poor leadership . On a serious 130 toons not players, could only be 20 players with a bunch of alts.
Yeah except guilds are account wide not character based. So no matter what toon they are on they are only shown as their account name.
Totally Drove me nuts reading all those replies that did not even bother to read the OP's post. Seriously guys stop replying without even bothering to read the guys first post.
MMO players tend to be transient creatures, staying for a month or two before moving onto the next big and shiny.
ESO is not unique in this regards, I think every single MMO I've played in the last five years has had to do this shortly after launch.
We only lost 26% since launch, thats a retention rate of 74% which I think has been incredibly great so far.
With a 26% drop off inside the first two months, another way of looking at that statistic is that your guild will be empty by the time the game has been out for around 8 months...
Thank you for that astonishing exercise in mathematics BetaBlocka. If you are retaining 74% you are on solid ground, you can still be expanding in fact as the content locusts leave at the one too two month point. They are already moving onto Wildstar, where they will stay for one or two months before they do "Why I am leaving" threads. Good riddance.
Looking at BetaBlocka's past posts I see has already moved on to Wildstar, but still feels the need to give us his wonderful insights here. Thanks for that.
You seem mad? Are you mad?
OP is an ESO champion who has started regularly posting in the WS forum, are you saying it's ok for OP to post cross forum but not me? Sorry but I can't seem to find you castigating the OP for doing exactly the same....
Also, yes OPs guild *could* still be expanding.....IF the game is expanding....but we all know the opposite is happening...therefore in all likelyhood what I said is correct imo.
MMO players tend to be transient creatures, staying for a month or two before moving onto the next big and shiny.
ESO is not unique in this regards, I think every single MMO I've played in the last five years has had to do this shortly after launch.
We only lost 26% since launch, thats a retention rate of 74% which I think has been incredibly great so far.
With a 26% drop off inside the first two months, another way of looking at that statistic is that your guild will be empty by the time the game has been out for around 8 months...
Thank you for that astonishing exercise in mathematics BetaBlocka. If you are retaining 74% you are on solid ground, you can still be expanding in fact as the content locusts leave at the one too two month point. They are already moving onto Wildstar, where they will stay for one or two months before they do "Why I am leaving" threads. Good riddance.
Looking at BetaBlocka's past posts I see has already moved on to Wildstar, but still feels the need to give us his wonderful insights here. Thanks for that.
You seem to have a thing with combining the words "content locusts" and "Wildstar' in one sentence.
I also find it very amusing that you're quoting mathematics in a Knotwood thread.
I think the content locusts will move on to the next MMO, that happens to be Wildstar. I have only a sketchy idea of Wildstar but it seems decent to me. But that is never enough for them is it? The horde has swarmed and now descended on WS, I will be honest, it does have a silver lining for TESO fans, most of the locusts have gone.
BetaBlocka, I don't post on the WS forum, so don't know whats going on there. I could do a "Best Wishes WS, you have the content locusts now thread" , but I think that would be taken as poking fun at WS and actually I wish it all the best.
Wildstar. Its unfortunate these games launched so closely. It really exposes the shoddiness of ESO that much more. I think Zenimax did a pretty good job their first time out, but Carbine just showed them up big time.
People consume what they want to consume and then leave or not according to whatever they were there for in the first place.
There are a lot of people who want a fast paced quick ride and are there to "beat the game"...whatever that means to them. And some want a slower pace listening to all dialog and reading all books.
Some of us want to create and build unique combinations of skills and that keeps us interested longer. Some don't care about that.and once they've done the ride with one character wouldn't dream of doing it again.
Some of us really enjoy the large scale raid-group-oriented PVP and stay for that. Others prefer 10 minute scenarios and leave because it's not part of this game.
They either give us what we individually want or we leave. This is no different than any other MMO... so far so good for me.
PS... my guild is growing, not losing members. Even though we're not strictly PVP-oriented, we had almost 2 full raid groups at a scheduled PVP event last weekend. This is the most we've ever had.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
MMO players tend to be transient creatures, staying for a month or two before moving onto the next big and shiny.
ESO is not unique in this regards, I think every single MMO I've played in the last five years has had to do this shortly after launch.
We weren't like that originally, and assuming we want to be that way is hurting the quality of the games in the genre.
I long for a game other than EVE that I can log into everyday and just interact with the people instead of just having to quest or do dailies. I want a virtual world to explore and participate in, not just a game to play with dozens of other people around me trying to complete the same objective to get to end game.
Don't get me wrong, I personally hate it. I find it extremely frustrating that players are like lemmings, blissfully stupid as they run off cliff after cliff. It hurts games and its hurt the genre to the point where nothing new can succeed, nothing is given room to grow and devs are falling into the pattern of slapping a fresh coat of paint on the same tired old gameplay and calling it revolutionary.
Originally posted by Aeonblades Some people can't handle a mostly PvE story driven MMO with an emphasis on community and teamwork. Think of it as weeding out the unwanteds. Your guild is most likely better off with them gone rather than hearing them whine about how it's not WoW or (insert other game here).
PVE story driven game for sure but community and teamwork describing ESO? I'm sorry but it's hard to believe.
Shrug, It's the best social experience I have had in an MMO community since the original EQ Pre-PoP. A community only works if you actively participate, it's not going to just form around you, you have to strike up chat and friendships on your own.
You can say the same about any MMO, what makes this so special?
I found this game very unsocial. Between the phasing and node phasing, to many solo quests you cant help with it was just easier to solo. Dungeons giving very bad loot, so why do them? But this was how the devs wanted it to make you feel powerful and important, to do that you had to do some of it alone. (((shrugs)))
Elder Scrolls Online is inherently unsocial in its design. No nameplates and chat bubbles makes a huge difference when it comes to a communities overall social interaction. Not to mention the grouping and phasing issues combined with most of the game being solo friendly. While you may be able to find friends and the like in ESO, the game does little to nothing in fostering such relationships.
Comments
You can say the same about any MMO, what makes this so special? Based on what you're saying, the game is definitely not emphasizing community and teamwork but you have to make it happen. That's what I'm trying to say. I'm sorry but that's how I felt when I played this game. I'm glad you're enjoying it and making friends.
I found this game very unsocial. Between the phasing and node phasing, to many solo quests you cant help with it was just easier to solo. Dungeons giving very bad loot, so why do them? But this was how the devs wanted it to make you feel powerful and important, to do that you had to do some of it alone. (((shrugs)))
Sort of the reason why I solo the first couple of months, first want to see the community settle before joining a guild.
Have seen this in almost any MMORPG where many will leave after free month (30day's) or 2/3 months. I'll wait till 3 to 6 month if I am staying before getting into a guild.
I played to about level 20, just wasnt having fun so i left, sure i could of forced myself to keep playing under the guise of itll get better soon, but honestly after that long it wasnt going to get any more fun for me.
To each their own though, (im sure some of those deleted had the same feelings as me), its not a bad game just not a game for me. cheers.
p.s. Not getting my pre order things didnt help my desire to stay either :P
If they reroll they stay in the guild with the new character
The most two reasons I see match what I said in the main post. People want to level as a group in some form, weather it be dungeons or pvp. Zenimax must see this on thier data gathering, Its strange they have not made this possible yet. The second is shorter leveling for veteran ranks. Almost every single post screams I hate playing solo and I want shorter vetern levels.
1. So many past games have offerned the ability to litterally level up in dungeons at a decent pace. If your sick of quests why not have this in game right now, when its one of the top reasons people are leaving the game?
2. Whats wrong with shorter Veteran Ranks? If the only reason is because it skips content, then find a way to revamp that content in end game. This should also be priority level one with Zenimax dev team at the moment, one of the other top reasons poeple are leaving.
I'll agree the retention rate is pretty high still in game, but Zenimax must be seeing this in thier data, If I was game director this would be my TOP 2 priorities at a game director. If Matt Frior cannot get this done, I think the big man in corprate will have to step in and bless Paul Sage with Emperor, (sry Matt, I'm sure your working on this hard as I speak.)
I think ESO 1-50 is a great experience. It may not be as Multiplayer as some people want in a MMO but it's still worth playing if you like a good theme park ride experience. The VR levels are horrible. The sense of progression isn't there, the sense of connection to your faction isn't there, the sense of being part of a grand adventure isn't there. It's all about fetch and kill quests and slogging though one zone after another to get to VR10 now VR12.
It's a shame really.
Each Dungeon gives you one skill point for doing the quest inside them.
Yeah except guilds are account wide not character based. So no matter what toon they are on they are only shown as their account name.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Even if the data does show that "many people are leaving because they want to level in groups", do you really think ZOS are going to fundamentally rework their core game design, build it, test it and roll it out on the live servers in a matter of 2 or 3 weeks ? Lol...
Most likely the anecdotal evidence presented by individual players to "prove their theories" is simply wrong. ZOS have full access to the game metrics, so they know exactly what everyone is doing all the time ingame. They also know who plays when and for how long.
If there are any changes made to ESO's game play, it will most likely be driven by the server data analysis, backed-up with exit surveys and collated forum data from a range of sources. And it will take many months before it's implemented. It might even be a case of "let's wait and see how the console version performs before we start redesigning the game..."
Its called Wildstar came out and all the sheep jumped to the " next big thing " hoping and praying its the best MMO ever and will keep them busy longer than a month or 2.
but deep down they know better and will be back on the forums bashing the games they purchase over and over praising the next big shinny as the best MMO because its not out yet.
rinse repeat for 10+ years now.
How is that different from any videogame ever made?
With a 26% drop off inside the first two months, another way of looking at that statistic is that your guild will be empty by the time the game has been out for around 8 months...
Thank you for that astonishing exercise in mathematics BetaBlocka. If you are retaining 74% you are on solid ground, you can still be expanding in fact as the content locusts leave at the one too two month point. They are already moving onto Wildstar, where they will stay for one or two months before they do "Why I am leaving" threads. Good riddance.
Looking at BetaBlocka's past posts I see has already moved on to Wildstar, but still feels the need to give us his wonderful insights here. Thanks for that.
You seem to have a thing with combining the words "content locusts" and "Wildstar' in one sentence.
I also find it very amusing that you're quoting mathematics in a Knotwood thread.
..Cake..
cause most players trying to find the same happiness as this one of "the first time" well you know this is wrong and false ...
i personally got sticked with GW2 since release and i still play it ... but i am also able to take some breaks for WoT or HAWKEN. The same was for Lineage 2 or Aion online.
those who are not satisfied, and log out after one month they will never be satisfied ...
about ESO it is a bad game with even worse release, many thought that it might be better than the demo-weekend betas, but it wasnt ... i also tried Wildstar, it was better although out of my preferences, i didint gone to buy it, but i knew its a far worthy game than ESO for a b2p (subscriptions is almost a scam for themeparks ... )
Totally Drove me nuts reading all those replies that did not even bother to read the OP's post. Seriously guys stop replying without even bothering to read the guys first post.
Lolipops !
You seem mad? Are you mad?
OP is an ESO champion who has started regularly posting in the WS forum, are you saying it's ok for OP to post cross forum but not me? Sorry but I can't seem to find you castigating the OP for doing exactly the same....
Also, yes OPs guild *could* still be expanding.....IF the game is expanding....but we all know the opposite is happening...therefore in all likelyhood what I said is correct imo.
I think the content locusts will move on to the next MMO, that happens to be Wildstar. I have only a sketchy idea of Wildstar but it seems decent to me. But that is never enough for them is it? The horde has swarmed and now descended on WS, I will be honest, it does have a silver lining for TESO fans, most of the locusts have gone.
BetaBlocka, I don't post on the WS forum, so don't know whats going on there. I could do a "Best Wishes WS, you have the content locusts now thread"
, but I think that would be taken as poking fun at WS and actually I wish it all the best.
Wildstar. Its unfortunate these games launched so closely. It really exposes the shoddiness of ESO that much more. I think Zenimax did a pretty good job their first time out, but Carbine just showed them up big time.
People consume what they want to consume and then leave or not according to whatever they were there for in the first place.
There are a lot of people who want a fast paced quick ride and are there to "beat the game"...whatever that means to them. And some want a slower pace listening to all dialog and reading all books.
Some of us want to create and build unique combinations of skills and that keeps us interested longer. Some don't care about that.and once they've done the ride with one character wouldn't dream of doing it again.
Some of us really enjoy the large scale raid-group-oriented PVP and stay for that. Others prefer 10 minute scenarios and leave because it's not part of this game.
They either give us what we individually want or we leave. This is no different than any other MMO... so far so good for me.
PS... my guild is growing, not losing members. Even though we're not strictly PVP-oriented, we had almost 2 full raid groups at a scheduled PVP event last weekend. This is the most we've ever had.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Don't get me wrong, I personally hate it. I find it extremely frustrating that players are like lemmings, blissfully stupid as they run off cliff after cliff. It hurts games and its hurt the genre to the point where nothing new can succeed, nothing is given room to grow and devs are falling into the pattern of slapping a fresh coat of paint on the same tired old gameplay and calling it revolutionary.
Elder Scrolls Online is inherently unsocial in its design. No nameplates and chat bubbles makes a huge difference when it comes to a communities overall social interaction. Not to mention the grouping and phasing issues combined with most of the game being solo friendly. While you may be able to find friends and the like in ESO, the game does little to nothing in fostering such relationships.