Originally posted by Holyavenger1 Well, this is disappointing. After reading about this game (pretty much solely on their website/forums, I admit) I was really excited about the features promised in this game, as well as the design and purported game mechanics.
Not so much anymore, lol. I'm not sure I can stand all those very stringent artificial restrictions on zones and timers and LPs. Meh. Big meh.
Thanks folks
You know you can play the game for free when release and build your own opinion insted follow "posters".
And there isnt "promise" features in AA. The game is allready in the world for at least 2 years, the listed features are there and working.
Originally posted by FoomerangMost people who claim to want a sandbox actually want a themepark with a variety of types of rides. Which is exactly what archeage is.
This.
It has got lots of fluff features, more than most games but handful of features do not make it a sandbox.
Originally posted by orionblack Ultima Online is the ONLY true sandbox game I know that is still running. No quest in that game...or hand holding...Welp that and Eve.
Honestly I would not call it a Sandbox at all personally. They are playing on peoples boredom of Themepark WoW clones. It is basically the same as calling it "Free to Play". It is marketing ploy. Game is not a true free to play nor it is a sandbox. But those 2 lines attract alot of attention.
The game gives you huge amount of freedoms on what you do. You are not on rails. It is not about doing 1 dungeon to get gear to get into the next endgame dungeon. It utalizes openworld primarily. Builds vary. But I do not think that defines a sandbox not in my book.
In a true sandbox players design the stuff with what the devs give us, minecraft/Landmark are sandboxs for example. This game is obviously not a themepark as we are use to. But most people are doing pre-defined content in game just different ways.
yes you can build a castle, but in predefined areas. You can build houses, but they are predefined. You can plant stuff anywhere (only sandbox feature in my opinion really).
This game feels more like oldschool mmos honestly. I would not call them sandboxs either though. Where choice matters, things are not handed to you, Guild are the lifelines to endgame, the economy matters, and you have many options to get to the end. Out side of the crappy quest hubs archeage is more or less a mmo that ignores alot of things that WoW "Revolutionized" (or Screwed up depending on your opinion of WoWs effect on mmos) in the genre.
Archeage is not a sandbox really when you compair it to pure sandbox games, it is just a Non-Linear mmo that gives you a ton of choices. It is the difference between a horizontal developed mmo and linear mmo.
Archeage is the first mmo since FFXI and L2 that game me these vibes. It is nice to not have a WoW clone that is a AAA mmo again. I really enjoy AA right now.
On the will this fail like in Korea and RU... I give it probally above 50% chance of failing. Most people I know in AA like it alot, but it is not getting alot of attention like ESO, EQN, and Wildstar and the servers are regional (although unlocked it still spreads the population out). This game requires alot of people to make it work. This is also NA where WoW is considered the best mmo in the world, this game will be a shock to anyone who started mmos within the last 6yrs who considers WoW/GW to the be the example of what a mmo should be, most new age mmo players will despise this game. Also reviewers tend to use WoW as a benchmark so I expect this game to get many reviews around 6.5-7/10 which will hurt it as well. With all that, It is an uphill battle.
Originally posted by dandurin It's a sandbox with quest chains, dungeons, and levelling tacked on.
If you just play to quest to 50, it's a themepark, but nobody does that so who cares? The real game is the sandobx infrastructure building and PVP.
The original question about sandbox features is so trollish I'm not going to bother to list them but anyone could.
Agreed they aint worth my time either with their trashing and troll baiting if it would be a sandpark / sandbox or not. Let them write what they want.
I for one cant wait after all these wow copy failures of mmo's for the past decade. ESO and Wildstar are the latest puke in box mmo's. Glad we get Archeage where you can at least roam the sea and claim land with your guild, grow crops and with 1.2 pvp almost everywhere
The Themepark genre has never been this bad and it continues to get worse. Hope they all go bankrupt so the endless WOW Clone milking are a day of the past.
But that is exactly my point, Archeage is just another WoW clone? You are telling me because you have an ocean zone, can farm crops in predermined land plots, and claim a capture point ala DAoC that the game is not a themepark?
Originally posted by Mothanos Originally posted by dandurin It's a sandbox with quest chains, dungeons, and levelling tacked on.If you just play to quest to 50, it's a themepark, but nobody does that so who cares? The real game is the sandobx infrastructure building and PVP.The original question about sandbox features is so trollish I'm not going to bother to list them but anyone could.
Agreed they aint worth my time either with their trashing and troll baiting if it would be a sandpark / sandbox or not. Let them write what they want.
I for one cant wait after all these wow copy failures of mmo's for the past decade. ESO and Wildstar are the latest puke in box mmo's. Glad we get Archeage where you can at least roam the sea and claim land with your guild, grow crops and with 1.2 pvp almost everywhere
The Themepark genre has never been this bad and it continues to get worse. Hope they all go bankrupt so the endless WOW Clone milking are a day of the past.
But that is exactly my point, Archeage is just another WoW clone? You are telling me because you have an ocean zone, can farm crops in predermined land plots, and claim a capture point ala DAoC that the game is not a themepark?
I'm wondering what features you think are necessary to make it a sandbox. I suspect your list and mine would vary.
In fact, to me a sandbox isn't a set of features, but more how a game plays, and AA has a markedly different feel to it. Certainly nothing like EVE, but closer to it than WOW.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by orionblack Ultima Online is the ONLY true sandbox game I know that is still running. No quest in that game...or hand holding...Welp that and Eve.
I believe Ryzom still exists and Xsyon too, but I do not believe many people actually like sandbox mmo's. They say they do, but do not play them.
any tool or feature of a game that gives the player the ability to generate content is a sandbox element of that game. A system that the devs put in place to allow this is akin to filling the sandbox with sand (and shovels, etc). Eve's and Archeage's political structures add sand to the sandbox so to speak. Poitical structures allow the players to generate content (in this case, political shenanigans and drama.. yay!!) Rift's dimensions and their Build-your-own-class are also elements that are "sandy" although Rift is not as full of make-your-own content as, say, Eve.
a game can have any number of sandbox elements. The argument of whether or not a game is a sandbox is absurd because there is no upper limit to how much freedom to generate content, other than just letting the player design his or her own MMO. Even Eve has limitations on its rules; you can't craft a gate that allows a titan to bass through to high sec, you can't attack or steal while docked, etc. Even something like second life has its limitations.
people have begun using "sandbox" to mean "different from WoW" or to mean "that thing I like," or offasionally "the PVP system I like".
it means none of those things.
Do a lot of games with abundant sandbox elements have meaningful PVP (meaning you can lose items or territory in game due to PVP)? Sure! Does every "sandboxy game" need to have meaningful PVP? Nope! ATITD and Landmark look em up. neither have pvp at all (Landmark will eventually have pvp enabled servers, I think)
TLDR: please refrain from using the words sandbox and themepark so arbitrarily that they begin to lose meaning.
and if you enjoy the alpha of archeage great! I will see you when they let the 50$ founders in!
Da Skull
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Originally posted by orionblack Ultima Online is the ONLY true sandbox game I know that is still running. No quest in that game...or hand holding...Welp that and Eve.
Both Eve and Ultima Online have tons of quests.
Back in the good ol' days Ultima Online didn't have very much quests other than escorting an NPC adventurer to any of their dungeons.
Even then, you can still skip all the quests and enjoy playing the game. The FREEDOM of choice you have available to do whatever the hell you wanted to do. Or simply put ROLEPLAY with little restrictions is what makes these games fun. The generation of today's MMO's are simply missing the core mechanic to have an impact as compared to such classic games such as Ultima Online.
Or even name a single Sandbox element it contains.
First let me preface and say I"m in alpha, have been playing daily, and thoroughly enjoy the game for what it is....a large world battle arena to fight others for the sake of fighting. But this will run it's course very very soon. So I turn to the old arguement everyone falls back on when you bring up the glaring lack of content or "sandbox" tools if you will on the general forums.
"Archeage is a sandbox, if you need someone to hold your hand go back to WoW"
Ok, so I challenge you to name the sandbox elements in Archeage to drive player content. And to cross the big two right off the list, DAoC had essentially identical housing and custumizations...and noone would call it a sandbox. And the nothern continent mess of unimplemented idea is either a really shitty version of DAoC frontiers, or a really really really shitty version of territory control in Shadowbane by tree claiming.
So i will await your answers and just say that after the fun of having open PKing as an option wears off, it becomes very clear why this game is a barren wasteland in both RU and KR.
I would like to know why you think it's not a sandbox and why you think RvR has something to do with it?
I'll await your answer.
In addition to asking the original poster why he thinks ArcheAge is not a sandbox, I would like to ask him "What is a sandbox?". People seem to have different intrepretations of what a sandbox MMORPG is.
According to this definition of a sandbox MMORPG, ArcheAge matches it and is a Sandbox.
How many threads have been dedicated to "OMG i need open world pvp nao!!!" and when you finally get it, you complain it's boring.
PK is fun for about a week and then the undeniable truth sets in that you are doing the same crap over and over and over again and you get bored.
See that's where the problem lies. Having open world pvp as the sole focus of an MMO is not what players want. At least for me it isn't. It should be LAST on the priority list.
Non-linear themepark with some sandbox elements is exactly what i've been waiting for last 10 years. I had tons of ideas how to develope WoW to make it more like a fantasy world, but sadly, they took another route.
And i also agree that open world PvP is not one of the features i want to see in an MMORPG, even though i want as much freedom and non-linearity as possible.
You know what I would like to see, as to avoid pointless debates about this in the future?
That those posters who keep making these threads would take the time to clearly formulate a definition of what a "sandbox MMO" is exactly. One that is uniform and to the point with the needed "whys and whats" next to each argument. Along with the games that are considered sandbox MMO's according to them.
Of course, looking at the general trends in this kind of thread, I'd expect that to be impossible. Because one so called sandbox fan is looking for EVE derivates, another is looking for a Minecraft type game and yet another only considers those oldschool games like original EQ to adhere to that definition.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to compromise and talk about a "sandbox spectrum" with games balancing more or less toward being "sandboxy" as they add mechanics that are generally agreed upon to fall within that category. Like those that add more player interaction and leave a lasting impression on the game world.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
You know what I would like to see, as to avoid pointless debates about this in the future?
That those posters who keep making these posts would take the time to clearly formulate a definition of what a "sandbox MMO" is exactly. One that is uniform and to the point with the needed "whys and whats" next to each argument. Along with the games that are considered sandbox MMO's according to them.
Of course, looking at the general trends in this kind of thread, I'd expect that to be impossible. Because one so called sandbox fan is looking for EVE derivates, another is looking for a Minecraft type game and yet another only considers those oldschool games like original EQ to adhere to that definition.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to compromise and talk about a "sandbox spectrum" with games balancing more or less toward being "sandboxy" as they add mechanics that are generally agreed upon to fall within that category. Like those that add more player interaction and leave a lasting impression on the game world.
I see people try sometimes and then the thread is just arguing about the definition.
Sometimes they do define it but its some asinine definition like "it has no quests" that means no game is ever a sandbox.
I wish players would stop talking about what is and isn't a sandbox all together.
Not that you're wrong, your post is obviously a smart one. If OP had a definition that we could all go by i'd be happier. I'm just saying people will still argue for 10 pages because they all think their dumb definition is better :P
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl You know what I would like to see, as to avoid pointless debates about this in the future?That those posters who keep making these threads would take the time to clearly formulate a definition of what a "sandbox MMO" is exactly. One that is uniform and to the point with the needed "whys and whats" next to each argument. Along with the games that are considered sandbox MMO's according to them.Of course, looking at the general trends in this kind of thread, I'd expect that to be impossible. Because one so called sandbox fan is looking for EVE derivates, another is looking for a Minecraft type game and yet another only considers those oldschool games like original EQ to adhere to that definition.Perhaps it would be a good idea to compromise and talk about a "sandbox spectrum" with games balancing more or less toward being "sandboxy" as they add mechanics that are generally agreed upon to fall within that category. Like those that add more player interaction and leave a lasting impression on the game world.
While pulling out a definition would be probably difficult, coherent description of the term is not.
I would say that most descriptions agree on sandbox being non-linear design. This is fairly straightforwarded, self-explanatory description.
The problem is, people are misusing the term a lot as they do not understand what it means and replace it with their own misconceptions to fit their fancies instead.
The problem is not the term, problem is the lack of understanding.
A single sandbox element? That's easy, there are no classes: any character can take any skill line and switch between or re-specialize with a small fee.
A) I always hated crafting, this is for the un employed.
No, its for the people who like to build/create things. There is people who like to play with excel sheets and spend 4h only cheching for good deals in AH in alot of games, and they are having fun. Crafters like complex craft system that envolves farming mats. All the entire game is around craft for them.
There is people playing EVE for that, not for killing others.
I hate PvP as the main focus of a game.
IMO if the OWPvP is in a game, the main features should be around it, otherwise there is no sense in have it.
I have no idea why you mentioned Darkfall, AA pvp is not even close to Darkfall. Totally diferente games in terms of OWPvP.
I see people try sometimes and then the thread is just arguing about the definition.
Sometimes they do define it but its some asinine definition like "it has no quests" that means no game is ever a sandbox.
I wish players would stop talking about what is and isn't a sandbox all together.
Not that you're wrong, your post is obviously a smart one. If OP had a definition that we could all go by i'd be happier. I'm just saying people will still argue for 10 pages because they all think their dumb definition is better :P
Originally posted by Gdemami
While pulling out a definition would be probably difficult, coherent description of the term is not.
I would say that most descriptions agree on sandbox being non-linear design. This is fairly straightforwarded, self-explanatory description.
The problem is, people are misusing the term a lot as they do not understand what it means and replace it with their own misconceptions to fit their fancies instead.
The problem is not the term, problem is the lack of understanding.
Of course, you're both right. Having seen about a million of these threads for various games, the people who make them are looking for big extremes.
I propose that instead of looking for a definition we won't come up with anyhow, you just look at how many non-linear mechanics a game has instead, and use that to determine how "sandboxy" it is.
Otherwise you end up with a thread like the one I once saw for Ryzom, where certain people are hammering on the game for "not being a sandbox", because it doesn't have housing. While almost every other aspect of it is non-linear and player driven.
As for Archeage: the game has a number of non-linear aspects to it. Player driven crafting, housing, territory battles and social PK, even judging others who PK etc.
But it also has a number of more linear and guided aspects, like questing and factions.
In the end though, if you'd make a "sandboxyness meter", this game would definitely score fairly high, though not as much as some of the extreme examples like EVE or Wurm online.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Comments
You know you can play the game for free when release and build your own opinion insted follow "posters".
And there isnt "promise" features in AA. The game is allready in the world for at least 2 years, the listed features are there and working.
This.
It has got lots of fluff features, more than most games but handful of features do not make it a sandbox.
Both Eve and Ultima Online have tons of quests.
Pic related:
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
Honestly I would not call it a Sandbox at all personally. They are playing on peoples boredom of Themepark WoW clones. It is basically the same as calling it "Free to Play". It is marketing ploy. Game is not a true free to play nor it is a sandbox. But those 2 lines attract alot of attention.
The game gives you huge amount of freedoms on what you do. You are not on rails. It is not about doing 1 dungeon to get gear to get into the next endgame dungeon. It utalizes openworld primarily. Builds vary. But I do not think that defines a sandbox not in my book.
In a true sandbox players design the stuff with what the devs give us, minecraft/Landmark are sandboxs for example. This game is obviously not a themepark as we are use to. But most people are doing pre-defined content in game just different ways.
yes you can build a castle, but in predefined areas. You can build houses, but they are predefined. You can plant stuff anywhere (only sandbox feature in my opinion really).
This game feels more like oldschool mmos honestly. I would not call them sandboxs either though. Where choice matters, things are not handed to you, Guild are the lifelines to endgame, the economy matters, and you have many options to get to the end. Out side of the crappy quest hubs archeage is more or less a mmo that ignores alot of things that WoW "Revolutionized" (or Screwed up depending on your opinion of WoWs effect on mmos) in the genre.
Archeage is not a sandbox really when you compair it to pure sandbox games, it is just a Non-Linear mmo that gives you a ton of choices. It is the difference between a horizontal developed mmo and linear mmo.
Archeage is the first mmo since FFXI and L2 that game me these vibes. It is nice to not have a WoW clone that is a AAA mmo again. I really enjoy AA right now.
On the will this fail like in Korea and RU... I give it probally above 50% chance of failing. Most people I know in AA like it alot, but it is not getting alot of attention like ESO, EQN, and Wildstar and the servers are regional (although unlocked it still spreads the population out). This game requires alot of people to make it work. This is also NA where WoW is considered the best mmo in the world, this game will be a shock to anyone who started mmos within the last 6yrs who considers WoW/GW to the be the example of what a mmo should be, most new age mmo players will despise this game. Also reviewers tend to use WoW as a benchmark so I expect this game to get many reviews around 6.5-7/10 which will hurt it as well. With all that, It is an uphill battle.
But that is exactly my point, Archeage is just another WoW clone? You are telling me because you have an ocean zone, can farm crops in predermined land plots, and claim a capture point ala DAoC that the game is not a themepark?
Agreed they aint worth my time either with their trashing and troll baiting if it would be a sandpark / sandbox or not.
Let them write what they want.
I for one cant wait after all these wow copy failures of mmo's for the past decade.
ESO and Wildstar are the latest puke in box mmo's.
Glad we get Archeage where you can at least roam the sea and claim land with your guild, grow crops and with 1.2 pvp almost everywhere
The Themepark genre has never been this bad and it continues to get worse.
Hope they all go bankrupt so the endless WOW Clone milking are a day of the past.
But that is exactly my point, Archeage is just another WoW clone? You are telling me because you have an ocean zone, can farm crops in predermined land plots, and claim a capture point ala DAoC that the game is not a themepark?
I'm wondering what features you think are necessary to make it a sandbox. I suspect your list and mine would vary.In fact, to me a sandbox isn't a set of features, but more how a game plays, and AA has a markedly different feel to it. Certainly nothing like EVE, but closer to it than WOW.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I believe Ryzom still exists and Xsyon too, but I do not believe many people actually like sandbox mmo's. They say they do, but do not play them.
It takes one to know one.
Design determines the features, not the other way round.
any tool or feature of a game that gives the player the ability to generate content is a sandbox element of that game. A system that the devs put in place to allow this is akin to filling the sandbox with sand (and shovels, etc). Eve's and Archeage's political structures add sand to the sandbox so to speak. Poitical structures allow the players to generate content (in this case, political shenanigans and drama.. yay!!) Rift's dimensions and their Build-your-own-class are also elements that are "sandy" although Rift is not as full of make-your-own content as, say, Eve.
a game can have any number of sandbox elements. The argument of whether or not a game is a sandbox is absurd because there is no upper limit to how much freedom to generate content, other than just letting the player design his or her own MMO. Even Eve has limitations on its rules; you can't craft a gate that allows a titan to bass through to high sec, you can't attack or steal while docked, etc. Even something like second life has its limitations.
people have begun using "sandbox" to mean "different from WoW" or to mean "that thing I like," or offasionally "the PVP system I like".
it means none of those things.
Do a lot of games with abundant sandbox elements have meaningful PVP (meaning you can lose items or territory in game due to PVP)? Sure! Does every "sandboxy game" need to have meaningful PVP? Nope! ATITD and Landmark look em up. neither have pvp at all (Landmark will eventually have pvp enabled servers, I think)
TLDR: please refrain from using the words sandbox and themepark so arbitrarily that they begin to lose meaning.
and if you enjoy the alpha of archeage great! I will see you when they let the 50$ founders in!
Da Skull
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
Back in the good ol' days Ultima Online didn't have very much quests other than escorting an NPC adventurer to any of their dungeons.
Even then, you can still skip all the quests and enjoy playing the game. The FREEDOM of choice you have available to do whatever the hell you wanted to do. Or simply put ROLEPLAY with little restrictions is what makes these games fun. The generation of today's MMO's are simply missing the core mechanic to have an impact as compared to such classic games such as Ultima Online.
In addition to asking the original poster why he thinks ArcheAge is not a sandbox, I would like to ask him "What is a sandbox?". People seem to have different intrepretations of what a sandbox MMORPG is.
According to this definition of a sandbox MMORPG, ArcheAge matches it and is a Sandbox.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-sandbox-mmo.htm
The above link was found simply by placing into google: what is a sandbox mmorpg
You guys got your cake, now eat it.
How many threads have been dedicated to "OMG i need open world pvp nao!!!" and when you finally get it, you complain it's boring.
PK is fun for about a week and then the undeniable truth sets in that you are doing the same crap over and over and over again and you get bored.
See that's where the problem lies. Having open world pvp as the sole focus of an MMO is not what players want. At least for me it isn't. It should be LAST on the priority list.
Non-linear themepark with some sandbox elements is exactly what i've been waiting for last 10 years. I had tons of ideas how to develope WoW to make it more like a fantasy world, but sadly, they took another route.
And i also agree that open world PvP is not one of the features i want to see in an MMORPG, even though i want as much freedom and non-linearity as possible.
The above poster has me thinking.
Up to now I was semi excited about this game. I love the idea of an open world. But Now that I think about it, ALL ABOUT PVP is not for me.
This has me thinking about Darkfall and the many hours spent in the sewers along with 20 other people farming mats for days.
A) I always hated crafting, this is for the un employed.
What do I Like ?.....The open world, but like Darkfall this will not carry me far !
You know what I would like to see, as to avoid pointless debates about this in the future?
That those posters who keep making these threads would take the time to clearly formulate a definition of what a "sandbox MMO" is exactly. One that is uniform and to the point with the needed "whys and whats" next to each argument. Along with the games that are considered sandbox MMO's according to them.
Of course, looking at the general trends in this kind of thread, I'd expect that to be impossible. Because one so called sandbox fan is looking for EVE derivates, another is looking for a Minecraft type game and yet another only considers those oldschool games like original EQ to adhere to that definition.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to compromise and talk about a "sandbox spectrum" with games balancing more or less toward being "sandboxy" as they add mechanics that are generally agreed upon to fall within that category. Like those that add more player interaction and leave a lasting impression on the game world.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I see people try sometimes and then the thread is just arguing about the definition.
Sometimes they do define it but its some asinine definition like "it has no quests" that means no game is ever a sandbox.
I wish players would stop talking about what is and isn't a sandbox all together.
Not that you're wrong, your post is obviously a smart one. If OP had a definition that we could all go by i'd be happier. I'm just saying people will still argue for 10 pages because they all think their dumb definition is better :P
+1 for both posters above. Sandbox is a made up word with no definition.
The topic could simply have been " how is Archage a Lawn Mower "......As silly as that sounds, its true !!!!!
While pulling out a definition would be probably difficult, coherent description of the term is not.
I would say that most descriptions agree on sandbox being non-linear design. This is fairly straightforwarded, self-explanatory description.
The problem is, people are misusing the term a lot as they do not understand what it means and replace it with their own misconceptions to fit their fancies instead.
The problem is not the term, problem is the lack of understanding.
You just describe any AAA mmorpg release in last years, thats why i like AA where i have more options and dont have only one thing to do when i login.
No, its for the people who like to build/create things. There is people who like to play with excel sheets and spend 4h only cheching for good deals in AH in alot of games, and they are having fun. Crafters like complex craft system that envolves farming mats. All the entire game is around craft for them.
There is people playing EVE for that, not for killing others.
IMO if the OWPvP is in a game, the main features should be around it, otherwise there is no sense in have it.
I have no idea why you mentioned Darkfall, AA pvp is not even close to Darkfall. Totally diferente games in terms of OWPvP.
Of course, you're both right. Having seen about a million of these threads for various games, the people who make them are looking for big extremes.
I propose that instead of looking for a definition we won't come up with anyhow, you just look at how many non-linear mechanics a game has instead, and use that to determine how "sandboxy" it is.
Otherwise you end up with a thread like the one I once saw for Ryzom, where certain people are hammering on the game for "not being a sandbox", because it doesn't have housing. While almost every other aspect of it is non-linear and player driven.
As for Archeage: the game has a number of non-linear aspects to it. Player driven crafting, housing, territory battles and social PK, even judging others who PK etc.
But it also has a number of more linear and guided aspects, like questing and factions.
In the end though, if you'd make a "sandboxyness meter", this game would definitely score fairly high, though not as much as some of the extreme examples like EVE or Wurm online.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!