It's hard to get the gist of whats going on..but..
If you're paying the sub, there shouldn't be an option to further progress your character in the cash shop. You should on an even playing field with a subscription. If that's the case, then fine. If you're paying the sub and you're also able to buy some kind of boost in the shop, the game is already destined to fail, so I highly doubt that would be the case.
That seems to be the case, unfortunately. People defending the model seem unwilling to admit there will be substantial benefits to people that pay for things IN ADDITION to a sub.
"Best gear and Costumes are made in game.. there is nothing OP PWNAGE in the item mall... everything you can buy in the cash shop can be sold in game.. "
That's not a good thing. That just means players willing to spend tons of money can buy things in the mall and sell them in game and get uber rich.
What's with this indignation. Pay a subscription or suffer the restrictions. I sincerely do not get these freeloaders who complain about games whose payment system is completely optional. You choose to play how you wish and that decision is completely free. Tough that the company is trying to make money but what do you expect ,everything for free is it . There are no hard and fast rules about what can be put in a game and it is f2p as long as you can live with the constraints.
Anything including experience boosts,mounts,expansion packs are considered p2w by the very broad terminology used these days to justify the crucification planned for companies that are merely trying to make money in this genre.
The game was always advertised with a sub model side by side with a the f2p as it is in Korea and Russia I think so I do not get what the other rant was about.
I haven't been following too closely, so I'm not sure on how they plan on modeling their pricing, but if its anything like Rift it kinda sucks. They have "patron status" memberships which you can purchase for $15/mo, but it isn't what you would assume from a monthly sub. After paying for this, you receive boosts to XP, crafting, rep gain, and some other neat skills, but are still required to buy, say, backpack slot unlocks (albeit at a discounted price). Each backpack slot costs over $5, btw.
With the incorporation of AA to Trion's "Glyph" platform, I can easily imagine the $15/mo "patron" status applying to all games available on the Glyph platform, akin to Sony's station pass, with the purpose of incentivizing players to play multiple games to "get their money's worth".
Honestly I would prefer something more akin to the LOTRO route - a monthly sub gets you everything except for expansion content, which can pay for itself over time (say playing 4-5 months earns enough LOTRO cash shop currency to unlock the next expansion).
Guess we'll see.
Edit: I just realized I may well have made this all up. Oops!
Originally posted by fivoroth Why do people on these forums so badly at reding comprehension? The OP said that even after paying 150 bucks and a subscription you still need to pay for things like storage expansion. Now this is greed and it is wrong. If I am paying for the box and a sub fee I expect to not have to but essential stuff like storage from their cash shop.
And yet you have people talking about how the OP didn't want to pay anything. Are you guys trolling or something or 150 for the box and a 15 sub fee is considered nothing???
No, that 150$ is not a box price. it is not a pay2play mmorpg, it is free2play. what you get for 150$ is specifically written in their founder pack page. there is nowhere near it says "150$ box price for the entire game". before you buy something learn about it.
As for the inventory and bank expansion slots, f2p will have very low bank space. patron will have a large number of space but if they want extra they will have to buy from cash shop, same with bank, at least that is how it is in korean version. it is like rift, where f2p only have 3 inventory slots, patron have generally 5 and they can buy 2 extra slots with rift credits. before you start screaming about something learn what you are screaming about.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
It's hard to get the gist of whats going on..but..
If you're paying the sub, there shouldn't be an option to further progress your character in the cash shop. You should on an even playing field with a subscription. If that's the case, then fine. If you're paying the sub and you're also able to buy some kind of boost in the shop, the game is already destined to fail, so I highly doubt that would be the case.
That seems to be the case, unfortunately. People defending the model seem unwilling to admit there will be substantial benefits to people that pay for things IN ADDITION to a sub.
"Best gear and Costumes are made in game.. there is nothing OP PWNAGE in the item mall... everything you can buy in the cash shop can be sold in game.. "
That's not a good thing. That just means players willing to spend tons of money can buy things in the mall and sell them in game and get uber rich.
So someone gets rich in-game..not a big deal.
I know the arguement, these people will buy their way to max level/gear faster then others...so let them spend their real money for basically nothing. Sure maybe at first they will dominate but those who learn to play will soon enough catch up and take over.
This isn't a problem expect by those people who keep trying to make it a problem.
Originally posted by fivoroth Why do people on these forums so badly at reding comprehension? The OP said that even after paying 150 bucks and a subscription you still need to pay for things like storage expansion. Now this is greed and it is wrong. If I am paying for the box and a sub fee I expect to not have to but essential stuff like storage from their cash shop.
And yet you have people talking about how the OP didn't want to pay anything. Are you guys trolling or something or 150 for the box and a 15 sub fee is considered nothing???
No, that 150$ is not a box price. it is not a pay2play mmorpg, it is free2play. what you get for 150$ is specifically written in their founcer pack page. there is nowhere near it says "150$ box price for the entire game". before you buy something learn about it.
As for the inventory and bank expansion slots, f2p will have very low bank space. patron will have a large number of space but if they want extra they will have to buy from cash shop, same with bank, at least that is how it is in korean version. it is like rift, where f2p only have 3 inventory slots, patron have generally 5 and they can buy 2 extra slots with rift credits. before you start screaming about something learn what you are screaming about.
Yup, people still complaining about buying extra storage space and seemly refusing to acknowledge that others games some ftp do the same. Guess it's ok for other games to sell storage, xp boosts, crafting boosts, etc but for this game to do so makes it p2win.
It's hard to get the gist of whats going on..but..
If you're paying the sub, there shouldn't be an option to further progress your character in the cash shop. You should on an even playing field with a subscription. If that's the case, then fine. If you're paying the sub and you're also able to buy some kind of boost in the shop, the game is already destined to fail, so I highly doubt that would be the case.
That seems to be the case, unfortunately. People defending the model seem unwilling to admit there will be substantial benefits to people that pay for things IN ADDITION to a sub.
"Best gear and Costumes are made in game.. there is nothing OP PWNAGE in the item mall... everything you can buy in the cash shop can be sold in game.. "
That's not a good thing. That just means players willing to spend tons of money can buy things in the mall and sell them in game and get uber rich.
So someone gets rich in-game..not a big deal.
I know the arguement, these people will buy their way to max level/gear faster then others...so let them spend their real money for basically nothing. Sure maybe at first they will dominate but those who learn to play will soon enough catch up and take over.
This isn't a problem expect by those people who keep trying to make it a problem.
What is a p2W game if not being able to buy your way into max gear?
Just for example's sake, my current MMO is Neverwinter. It's a f2p game but you can convert real money directly in in-game currency. With inflation and a designed lack of way to earn substantial money in-game, it's pretty much the only way to get the best possible gear.
It's understandable because it's a f2p game and they have to make their money somehow, but Archeage has a subscription model. Most people when they pay a subscription would like to be on equal footing with everyone else.
The fair way to do it would be make free restricted (which it is, people are already complaining that free play will be crippled with labor points), make subscription full-access, and sell fluff/service items in the mall.
Otherwise the people that advance the furthest are going to be the ones that have spent the most money, and that is P2W.
The thing with Neverwinter is at least I can justify my purchases in that game because I wasn't paying a subscription. I don't know how I'll be able to justify paying money to keep up with people on top of a subscription.
There going be some stuff people not going like that can go from xp potions, then to all the way to some type of gear. A mmo that gives even 80% free will never make it this day of age with so many people thinking why should I pay for a free to play game why is free.
If they don't have the option to give you something better over free to play players then the funding will get cut then there no update no noting.
But people have to think it's when the game it's really out of beta and live, as the game is in beta when everything not set in stone, that's why there feedback on there forums, as your not going get everything you want but it's good of a try.
Just comes down to it, how far can I get with out paying a dime in to the game, that's what makes a game close to free to play, But just can't forget, someone have to pay up keep the server's running with out crossing the pay to win mark hard.
Or people just forget whats is a pay to win game is? go check out rune of magic and allods.
Originally posted by cerulean2012 Originally posted by jesteralwaysOriginally posted by fivoroth Why do people on these forums so badly at reding comprehension? The OP said that even after paying 150 bucks and a subscription you still need to pay for things like storage expansion. Now this is greed and it is wrong. If I am paying for the box and a sub fee I expect to not have to but essential stuff like storage from their cash shop. And yet you have people talking about how the OP didn't want to pay anything. Are you guys trolling or something or 150 for the box and a 15 sub fee is considered nothing???
No, that 150$ is not a box price. it is not a pay2play mmorpg, it is free2play. what you get for 150$ is specifically written in their founcer pack page. there is nowhere near it says "150$ box price for the entire game". before you buy something learn about it.As for the inventory and bank expansion slots, f2p will have very low bank space. patron will have a large number of space but if they want extra they will have to buy from cash shop, same with bank, at least that is how it is in korean version. it is like rift, where f2p only have 3 inventory slots, patron have generally 5 and they can buy 2 extra slots with rift credits. before you start screaming about something learn what you are screaming about.Yup, people still complaining about buying extra storage space and seemly refusing to acknowledge that others games some ftp do the same. Guess it's ok for other games to sell storage, xp boosts, crafting boosts, etc but for this game to do so makes it p2win.
They need to cry about something ! I mean what else can they cry about ?
Finaly an mmo that offers 23 professions that are stunningly well done ! Open world pvp ! Sea battles ! Scuba diving ! Fishing done extremely well ! North continent for sieges ! Subscription nomnomnom !!! The kraken !!!! Housing !!! Farming !!!!!
And they expect it all to be FREE ? I hope pay to enjoy / free to play dies out as these people are just a bunch of freeloaders not willing to support studio's and just want to have everything handed to them.
Glad Trion puts the middle finger up and say fack the freeloaders
Someone needs to link that cartoon again about how consumers will amazingly just purchase anything. You just have to ask for it and they will gladly give you their money.
- Ask people in beta access to pay $150 to debug the game: check!
- Subscription for a F2P game: check!
- Make the game annoying to play and add cash shop to make it playable: check!
As a sceptic, I would never have thought any of the above possible... but now I am just honestly and sincerely wondering what they will come up with next!
These guys are simply amazing and I'm now learning from them how to rob the general population better.
I made this post in the alpha forums, but people here might enjoy reading it, Trion is indeed going out of their way to make sure people are nickled and dimed at every turn, they have made deliberate changes to the games core features to move them behind paywalls that even being a patron(subscriber) doesnt circumvent.
I hear what people are saying about labor and needing lots of it, but can you guys not see that isnt a perk?
You're basically being forced into a subscription just to function and enjoy the game.Now you have this loyalty function to reward people who have shown they want to keep the game going and paying monthly, but that is offset by the fact that everything in the loyalty shop is trash( instruments with no stats? a t-shrt? Daru chests that basically convert your loyalty into small amounts of gold/gilda?). And the items you truly would spend loyalty on aren't available (inventory expansion, mounts, gliders, costumes, gender change, race change, land appraisal) and it just surprises me that a lot of people seem to be accepting of this fact.
Trion is double dipping here. There are some unspoken rules when it comes to making a free to play game with a subscription, tera follows them, age of wushu follows them, star wars the old republic follows them, the list goes on. It is simple, if the player is a free to play customer only, he is a drifter, no real commitment to the game, as such he can enjoy basic features, but inventory, dungeons, any activity that can impact the game world or economy in any meaningful way is usually gated by some convince removal mechanics that get that player to commit just a bit more to the game. You get a limited inventory, limited experience gain, limited storage or bank slots, limited character slots the whole nine. And you offset these nuisances by A: Buying the item that frees up that paywall B: Pay the sub and live in a world where none of that nonsense exists.
Look at what we have here, i pay for patron status to show my support, hell i go deep, $150 deep, 3 months patron locked up, i should be golden, my money is reserved for costumes and other quality of life consumables, maybe ill buy my toon a nice dress or something - can i focus on that? NO!
-My patron status gives me the option to purchase 2 additional character slots for a maximum of 4. - Excuse me? I still have to buy them, my sub only gives me the option to purchase additional slots?
-I still have to spend my $20 of my $75 credit on inventory expansion? $40 if i decide to throw my bank into the mix - PER CHARACTER? - I guess i wont be making any alts - except to exploit that labor point potion if they are stupid enough to leave it like that. - Yes, i will exploit it, the same way i will never log off the game unless the servers go down.
I look at the loyalty shop and ask myself, what would i buy from this place... nothing. No Expansion scrolls, No loyalty specific mounts or pet armor, No loyalty specific battle pets, and some weird stat-less instruments. What is here that is supposed to be appealing to me? Labor pots? Maybe, but i might as well go deep if im going to buy those and just commit to using money, because loyalty isnt going to keep up with real world demands anyway.
So now, what is the value of patron status? Lets take a look:
• Bonus online Labor Point regeneration (10 per 5 minutes)
• Offline Labor Point regeneration (5 per 5 minutes)
• Increased maximum Labor Points cap (5000 maximum)
The game isnt playable on an enjoyable level without the above.
• 10% bonus to all Experience gained through combat or labor usage
I could not care less about 10% bonus experience, its nothing, it wont be noticeable at all, and well it shouldn't be, its a perma buff.
• 10% discount on Marketplace purchases (available after launch)
How many purchases a month do i need to make with real money to offset that 15 dollar investment for that 10% discount?
• 5 Loyalty Tokens per day for use in the Loyalty Store (awarded on first login of the day)
Going to have to step up that items in this shop if you want this to be an actual perk, as it stands now, those Daru chests are garbage.
• Ability to claim land by placing farms and houses
• Ability to pay in-game taxes on owned property
This is one of the bread and butter features of the game right? I guess patron for this major feature makes sense, thats a nice perk.
• Ability to post auctions on the Auction House by default
The only one of these that is actually a perk.
The first third of the patron could realistically be labeled as "MUST HAVE" Nobody in alpha at the moment can even argue that any player who wants to seriously play Archage, cannot do so with max 2k Labour points, and 5 online no offline regen - So if you decided youre going to play this game, you just paid $15 for these alone, not because you want to, but because you have to, period. But dont feel bad, this is your reward for paying out of pocket upfront to show your loyalty to Trion. Unless they triple dip. But they wouldnt do that, they wouldnt introduce another item in game that is simply a direct Real money to in game currency conversation that can and will fuck the economy in the long run. There is no way, they hate gold spammers, they want to protect the game economy.
APEX... CREDD...CHRONOSCROLLS... a turd by any other name is still a turd. I hate, hate, HATE these gold for sub items. Why is this here? Cash shop is already in game, if people want the features that come with the sub, pay the damn sub. The only function these item serve is for people to pay their subs with real money, and then add 10 of these on top of it so they can gain a huge influx of in game currency to go with it. IT IS THE VERY DEFINITION of pay to win. And it fucks with the economy in every game it exists within. If youre going to do this, why fuck around, just add the ability to convert gold into credits like every other pay to win game and be done with it. But lets not pretend this is not a pay to win feature. Ive played pay to play MMOs with people who are willing to spend $2000 a week on the game just to keep themselves and their guild on top, APEX adds nothing positive to the game. NOTHING.
Honestly if i could, i would refund my founders pack, and just put $150 bucks straight into the item mall. Because i assure you i could make that go a hell of a lot farther then all of those benefits the founders offers me, especially the 3 month patron it comes with, i would just buy 30 days and make sure come the 29th day i had enough gold to buy 6 months worth of APEX with in game gold.
And why arent more people upset about the fact that there is no damn loot in this game? Monsters only drops 32 flavors of coin purse, but no trash drops, no weapons, no armor, no accessories, NOTHING. Where the fuck is archenum dust coming from? Its certainly not the item mall, already figured that out, so how the hell are you even supposed to maintain a stable crafting economy when the main component has no decent method of acquisition? Are free to play players supposed to spend all of their game gold on EXPENSIVE crafted items only? The only loot to be had is quest reward? Im sorry, did we forget that a major part of the fun in an MMORPG is the adventure? You know, the exploration, the fighting, and the unearthed treasure that comes with it? Why the fuck am i killing that Centaur chieftain if he has no spoils on him? Ive said this in about 18 threads and it honestly bears repeating up until it is addressed - you cannot release this game with no loot. You just cant have a game where crafting is the be all end all, especially when one of the main regents damn near requires you deconstruct copious amounts of gear to get enough to even craft. Its almost as though you dont understand your own system, you already have labor points in game to control the rate of which new items are introduced into the game world, so why the hell is archenum dust nonexistent?
I dont mean to rant, but i like this game, i havent like an open world pvp game since lineage 2, i get that feeling again when i play this game, and as it stands now, If the game released tomorrow in its current state,i would not play it longer then 90 days and that is because that is what comes with my archenum package. I certainly will not spend a dime beyond my $75 credit. Some people might think the game is perfect in its current state, i am not one of those people. It is a great game, solid features, being ruined by poor decisions.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Originally posted by fivoroth Why do people on these forums so badly at reding comprehension? The OP said that even after paying 150 bucks and a subscription you still need to pay for things like storage expansion. Now this is greed and it is wrong. If I am paying for the box and a sub fee I expect to not have to but essential stuff like storage from their cash shop. And yet you have people talking about how the OP didn't want to pay anything. Are you guys trolling or something or 150 for the box and a 15 sub fee is considered nothing???
No, that 150$ is not a box price. it is not a pay2play mmorpg, it is free2play. what you get for 150$ is specifically written in their founcer pack page. there is nowhere near it says "150$ box price for the entire game". before you buy something learn about it.As for the inventory and bank expansion slots, f2p will have very low bank space. patron will have a large number of space but if they want extra they will have to buy from cash shop, same with bank, at least that is how it is in korean version. it is like rift, where f2p only have 3 inventory slots, patron have generally 5 and they can buy 2 extra slots with rift credits. before you start screaming about something learn what you are screaming about.
Yup, people still complaining about buying extra storage space and seemly refusing to acknowledge that others games some ftp do the same. Guess it's ok for other games to sell storage, xp boosts, crafting boosts, etc but for this game to do so makes it p2win.
They need to cry about something ! I mean what else can they cry about ?
Finaly an mmo that offers 23 professions that are stunningly well done ! Open world pvp ! Sea battles ! Scuba diving ! Fishing done extremely well ! North continent for sieges ! Subscription nomnomnom !!! The kraken !!!! Housing !!! Farming !!!!!
And they expect it all to be FREE ? I hope pay to enjoy / free to play dies out as these people are just a bunch of freeloaders not willing to support studio's and just want to have everything handed to them.
Glad Trion puts the middle finger up and say fack the freeloaders
Blind faith serves no one.
This video is for you and people like you,
The game in its current state cost more then a WoW subscription to enjoy each month, if you think that is a good thing, then hope for the genre is lost, they are making games for people like you. The ones who think money = power, and being able to pay more means more then playing more.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
So, you people still throwing a fit that this game will be p2win, how about this:
We have 2 different players, both are paying the month sub but don;t buy anything else.
Player A has the ability to play 12 hours a day.
Player B can only play 2 hours a day.
Well with both being even as having the sub and not buying anything else player A still has an advantage. Player A will level faster, obtain more money and other points and very quickly outpace player B. So is this fair? Should all games have something built in to stop people from getting an advantage for being able to play the game longer then others? I will say most people are going to say no although player A has an advantage.
Now lets add-in that player B realizes that with his limited play-time the most advantagous thing he can do is purchase some boosts from the shop. Now since the boost only give a small boost for a limited time he does have to buy multiple of them. Now before the boosts he would get in about 14 game hrs a week, so with the boost he now gets appx 15-16 hrs worth of time in only the 14 hours played. Well the boosts do help him gain ground a little faster but not that much and nothing that will break anything.
I also know that you will say, well if player A buys things, ok lets look at that. Player A in 7 days will play abt 84 hours of game time (12 hrs a day). So with the boosts he will not get abt 88-90 hrs worth of work into that 84 hours. Again it isn't that big of a jump, and lets admit...if someone is playing 12 hours a day they are still going to hit max levels a lot faster then people that can only play 2-4 hours a day.
So in each example the boosts which will help some will not be a deciding factor in the overall outcome.
Plus, it is still the players choice as to buy anything from the shop. Even though it maybe slower not buying things it will still be possible to play and have fun and that is the main reason to play a game.
If you are playing a game and not having fun then it is time to find another game.
So for everyone who is throwing a fit about the pay structure & shop, give it a rest. You all have decided you don't like and by not liking it it will cause/caused you to already not like the game, so for your peace of mind and everyone elses, give it a rest. Find a new game, something you are interested in, something that makes you happy. Go to that games forums (on here or elsewhere) and talk about how you like the game, but get a life and give this a rest.
So, you people still throwing a fit that this game will be p2win, how about this:
We have 2 different players, both are paying the month sub but don;t buy anything else.
Player A has the ability to play 12 hours a day.
Player B can only play 2 hours a day.
Well with both being even as having the sub and not buying anything else player A still has an advantage. Player A will level faster, obtain more money and other points and very quickly outpace player B. So is this fair? Should all games have something built in to stop people from getting an advantage for being able to play the game longer then others? I will say most people are going to say no although player A has an advantage.
Now lets add-in that player B realizes that with his limited play-time the most advantagous thing he can do is purchase some boosts from the shop. Now since the boost only give a small boost for a limited time he does have to buy multiple of them. Now before the boosts he would get in about 14 game hrs a week, so with the boost he now gets appx 15-16 hrs worth of time in only the 14 hours played. Well the boosts do help him gain ground a little faster but not that much and nothing that will break anything.
I also know that you will say, well if player A buys things, ok lets look at that. Player A in 7 days will play abt 84 hours of game time (12 hrs a day). So with the boosts he will not get abt 88-90 hrs worth of work into that 84 hours. Again it isn't that big of a jump, and lets admit...if someone is playing 12 hours a day they are still going to hit max levels a lot faster then people that can only play 2-4 hours a day.
So in each example the boosts which will help some will not be a deciding factor in the overall outcome.
Plus, it is still the players choice as to buy anything from the shop. Even though it maybe slower not buying things it will still be possible to play and have fun and that is the main reason to play a game.
If you are playing a game and not having fun then it is time to find another game.
So for everyone who is throwing a fit about the pay structure & shop, give it a rest. You all have decided you don't like and by not liking it it will cause/caused you to already not like the game, so for your peace of mind and everyone elses, give it a rest. Find a new game, something you are interested in, something that makes you happy. Go to that games forums (on here or elsewhere) and talk about how you like the game, but get a life and give this a rest.
I'm sure they will go La-la-la over your post and keep on whining but good try anyway.
So, you people still throwing a fit that this game will be p2win, how about this:
We have 2 different players, both are paying the month sub but don;t buy anything else.
Player A has the ability to play 12 hours a day.
Player B can only play 2 hours a day.
Well with both being even as having the sub and not buying anything else player A still has an advantage. Player A will level faster, obtain more money and other points and very quickly outpace player B. So is this fair? Should all games have something built in to stop people from getting an advantage for being able to play the game longer then others? I will say most people are going to say no although player A has an advantage.
Now lets add-in that player B realizes that with his limited play-time the most advantagous thing he can do is purchase some boosts from the shop. Now since the boost only give a small boost for a limited time he does have to buy multiple of them. Now before the boosts he would get in about 14 game hrs a week, so with the boost he now gets appx 15-16 hrs worth of time in only the 14 hours played. Well the boosts do help him gain ground a little faster but not that much and nothing that will break anything.
I also know that you will say, well if player A buys things, ok lets look at that. Player A in 7 days will play abt 84 hours of game time (12 hrs a day). So with the boosts he will not get abt 88-90 hrs worth of work into that 84 hours. Again it isn't that big of a jump, and lets admit...if someone is playing 12 hours a day they are still going to hit max levels a lot faster then people that can only play 2-4 hours a day.
So in each example the boosts which will help some will not be a deciding factor in the overall outcome.
Plus, it is still the players choice as to buy anything from the shop. Even though it maybe slower not buying things it will still be possible to play and have fun and that is the main reason to play a game.
If you are playing a game and not having fun then it is time to find another game.
So for everyone who is throwing a fit about the pay structure & shop, give it a rest. You all have decided you don't like and by not liking it it will cause/caused you to already not like the game, so for your peace of mind and everyone elses, give it a rest. Find a new game, something you are interested in, something that makes you happy. Go to that games forums (on here or elsewhere) and talk about how you like the game, but get a life and give this a rest.
I'm sure they will go La-la-la over your post and keep on whining but good try anyway.
I know, it is unfortunate that some people seem to only find joy in throwing a fit at little things. Especially if they have no plans what-so-ever to even support the thing they are throwing a fit about. Things would be so much nicer if people would take that energy and put it towards something good. Because with all of the arguing I would bet that few people are now turned off on the game and from some I have talked with there are people now looking forward to trying the game.
In the end it will be how many people spend money in the shops (not only Archeage but other games) that will determine which directions companies go. At this stage of the genre it appears that cash shops make good money and I expect that more and more games will come out with them. Hopefully somewhere in the future of mmos companies will find that happy medium and the player base will either accept it or not.
Who knows, 5 years from now the mmo player base may have changed enough and closed their wallets enough to make companies take notice, but for now it won't happen and the arguing does not do any good. In fact it only brings more attention to the game and people that might not even to think about it start looking into it.
Oh well, I spoke my peace. I know those against the shops will fight back, let them. The more they throw a fit the more attention to this and other games they are providing and they are helping give free advertising to those games.
So, you people still throwing a fit that this game will be p2win, how about this:
We have 2 different players, both are paying the month sub but don;t buy anything else.
Player A has the ability to play 12 hours a day.
Player B can only play 2 hours a day.
Well with both being even as having the sub and not buying anything else player A still has an advantage. Player A will level faster, obtain more money and other points and very quickly outpace player B. So is this fair? Should all games have something built in to stop people from getting an advantage for being able to play the game longer then others? I will say most people are going to say no although player A has an advantage.
Now lets add-in that player B realizes that with his limited play-time the most advantagous thing he can do is purchase some boosts from the shop. Now since the boost only give a small boost for a limited time he does have to buy multiple of them. Now before the boosts he would get in about 14 game hrs a week, so with the boost he now gets appx 15-16 hrs worth of time in only the 14 hours played. Well the boosts do help him gain ground a little faster but not that much and nothing that will break anything.
I also know that you will say, well if player A buys things, ok lets look at that. Player A in 7 days will play abt 84 hours of game time (12 hrs a day). So with the boosts he will not get abt 88-90 hrs worth of work into that 84 hours. Again it isn't that big of a jump, and lets admit...if someone is playing 12 hours a day they are still going to hit max levels a lot faster then people that can only play 2-4 hours a day.
So in each example the boosts which will help some will not be a deciding factor in the overall outcome.
Plus, it is still the players choice as to buy anything from the shop. Even though it maybe slower not buying things it will still be possible to play and have fun and that is the main reason to play a game.
If you are playing a game and not having fun then it is time to find another game.
So for everyone who is throwing a fit about the pay structure & shop, give it a rest. You all have decided you don't like and by not liking it it will cause/caused you to already not like the game, so for your peace of mind and everyone elses, give it a rest. Find a new game, something you are interested in, something that makes you happy. Go to that games forums (on here or elsewhere) and talk about how you like the game, but get a life and give this a rest.
Your examples are... I don't even know what to say. If said person B is not putting the same amount of time/effort into the game then he is not entitled to enjoy the same success in the game. No amount of RL money should be able to change that. This is basically how things work in any endeavour.
The subscription should be there to provide a leveled field, not a slightly higher ground compared to the "free to play" crowd wallowing in the gutters. We've been led to beleive that ArcheAge would have the classical 2 steps:
1. f2p bunch trying the game out without a large commitment in time/money and
2. subscribers who find value in the game and are willing to pay for it.
Introducing aditional benefits and features beyond the reach of a standard MMO subscription that greatly affect the in-game character effectivness is destroying the concept of a leveled field, which is something I feel every reasonable person should voice their concern about, so no, we will not go "find a new game, get a life and give this a rest", as you put it. Some of us are finding the core systems of THIS GAME interesting and would be willing to try them out and potentially suport the game with our money, but not with Trion making adjustments that are motivated by greed.
They may have a diamond on their hands. Diamonds can sell on their own. No need to shit all over it and charge extra if you would like yours to be clean upon purchase just to earn a little more, while screwing with your customer base.
Just like the game isn't for players wanting a completely pve experience, maybe it's also not for cheapskates.
I would like to see better games made and if that means paying for them then fine. Let the cheap people who can only afford $15 a month keep getting their rehashed clones. If a game costs more and delivers more, then so be it.
Look at the Star Wars MMO free to play with option to get extra items if needed. Notice the big "IF" meaning it is not necessary to get all that stuff it is optional for someone that wants too. Just because someone is able to progress faster than you doesn't make it a P2W game because everyone will eventually be level 50 and everyone will eventually get the items. If people are so worried in their minds about this then just subscribe to the game and be done with it.
I would give you a guest pass to SWOTR, but then I wouldn't be able to find a way to live with myself afterwards....
i believe the east version does have potions that boost stats not sure.. but a lot of ppl are bitching about the labor potions.. these potions
Give you 1000 labor points every 12hours
supposedly you can make 4 characters on 1 account and buy 1 of those potions for each character.. used them and get 4k back max is 5k.. so alot of ppl see that as p2w.. I believe in it as p4c(pay 4 convience)
Best gear and Costumes are made in game.. there is nothing OP PWNAGE in the item mall... everything you can buy in the cash shop can be sold in game..
LP pots are tired to account, so is LP points. Doesn`t matter if u got 1 or 10 cheracter slots. All you can boost is 1000 LP once in 12 h.
Following the P2W description of OP i came to conclusion, that all MMO on the market are P2W.
Not matter what way you put it you gain an advantage, does that mean P2W? I don't know, so i choose not to say it as the phrase is too open to interpretation. But overall you gain an advantage over other players, when you sub your not getting fluff or cosmetic stuff, same with the with buying the labor points, they're not some random points that are meaningless, they're a key component in this game, pretty much everything revolves around it. This is no different from any other F2P allowing to pay to gain advantages, even if you can eventually get same shit, still doesn't stop it from giving you the advantage.
Imho they should just make it an actually P2P game instead of this round about way so people don't feel bad or care about paying for the advantages *shrug*
So, you people still throwing a fit that this game will be p2win, how about this:
We have 2 different players, both are paying the month sub but don;t buy anything else.
Player A has the ability to play 12 hours a day.
Player B can only play 2 hours a day.
Well with both being even as having the sub and not buying anything else player A still has an advantage. Player A will level faster, obtain more money and other points and very quickly outpace player B. So is this fair? Should all games have something built in to stop people from getting an advantage for being able to play the game longer then others? I will say most people are going to say no although player A has an advantage.
Now lets add-in that player B realizes that with his limited play-time the most advantagous thing he can do is purchase some boosts from the shop. Now since the boost only give a small boost for a limited time he does have to buy multiple of them. Now before the boosts he would get in about 14 game hrs a week, so with the boost he now gets appx 15-16 hrs worth of time in only the 14 hours played. Well the boosts do help him gain ground a little faster but not that much and nothing that will break anything.
I also know that you will say, well if player A buys things, ok lets look at that. Player A in 7 days will play abt 84 hours of game time (12 hrs a day). So with the boosts he will not get abt 88-90 hrs worth of work into that 84 hours. Again it isn't that big of a jump, and lets admit...if someone is playing 12 hours a day they are still going to hit max levels a lot faster then people that can only play 2-4 hours a day.
So in each example the boosts which will help some will not be a deciding factor in the overall outcome.
Plus, it is still the players choice as to buy anything from the shop. Even though it maybe slower not buying things it will still be possible to play and have fun and that is the main reason to play a game.
If you are playing a game and not having fun then it is time to find another game.
So for everyone who is throwing a fit about the pay structure & shop, give it a rest. You all have decided you don't like and by not liking it it will cause/caused you to already not like the game, so for your peace of mind and everyone elses, give it a rest. Find a new game, something you are interested in, something that makes you happy. Go to that games forums (on here or elsewhere) and talk about how you like the game, but get a life and give this a rest.
So, 2 players paid the exact same fee and received the exact same service........exactly and identically. What's your point?
Should we apply this logic to higher education? Should we compare 2 students? 1 student busted his ass and fared much better than the 2nd student who did just enough work to pass with average grades. How unfair it is for the lazier of the 2 students since he paid the same tuition as the hard working student.
We (I) didnt expect game to be free. I wanted to pay 15$/mo subscription and enjoy game without annoying cashshops, buff potions, payed cosmetics etc.
Thank you for understanding.
QFT. Rather than accepting the criticisms and concerns, people like them prefer to place the blame on the "freeloaders" who are ruining the genre while some of us will gladly pay a sub if the game is worth it and they don't try to nickle and dime you on top of the sub. Apparently this has become the foreign concept.
Comments
That seems to be the case, unfortunately. People defending the model seem unwilling to admit there will be substantial benefits to people that pay for things IN ADDITION to a sub.
"Best gear and Costumes are made in game.. there is nothing OP PWNAGE in the item mall... everything you can buy in the cash shop can be sold in game.. "
That's not a good thing. That just means players willing to spend tons of money can buy things in the mall and sell them in game and get uber rich.
I haven't been following too closely, so I'm not sure on how they plan on modeling their pricing, but if its anything like Rift it kinda sucks. They have "patron status" memberships which you can purchase for $15/mo, but it isn't what you would assume from a monthly sub. After paying for this, you receive boosts to XP, crafting, rep gain, and some other neat skills, but are still required to buy, say, backpack slot unlocks (albeit at a discounted price). Each backpack slot costs over $5, btw.
With the incorporation of AA to Trion's "Glyph" platform, I can easily imagine the $15/mo "patron" status applying to all games available on the Glyph platform, akin to Sony's station pass, with the purpose of incentivizing players to play multiple games to "get their money's worth".
Honestly I would prefer something more akin to the LOTRO route - a monthly sub gets you everything except for expansion content, which can pay for itself over time (say playing 4-5 months earns enough LOTRO cash shop currency to unlock the next expansion).
Guess we'll see.
Edit: I just realized I may well have made this all up. Oops!
No, that 150$ is not a box price. it is not a pay2play mmorpg, it is free2play. what you get for 150$ is specifically written in their founder pack page. there is nowhere near it says "150$ box price for the entire game". before you buy something learn about it.
As for the inventory and bank expansion slots, f2p will have very low bank space. patron will have a large number of space but if they want extra they will have to buy from cash shop, same with bank, at least that is how it is in korean version. it is like rift, where f2p only have 3 inventory slots, patron have generally 5 and they can buy 2 extra slots with rift credits. before you start screaming about something learn what you are screaming about.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
So someone gets rich in-game..not a big deal.
I know the arguement, these people will buy their way to max level/gear faster then others...so let them spend their real money for basically nothing. Sure maybe at first they will dominate but those who learn to play will soon enough catch up and take over.
This isn't a problem expect by those people who keep trying to make it a problem.
Yup, people still complaining about buying extra storage space and seemly refusing to acknowledge that others games some ftp do the same. Guess it's ok for other games to sell storage, xp boosts, crafting boosts, etc but for this game to do so makes it p2win.
What is a p2W game if not being able to buy your way into max gear?
Just for example's sake, my current MMO is Neverwinter. It's a f2p game but you can convert real money directly in in-game currency. With inflation and a designed lack of way to earn substantial money in-game, it's pretty much the only way to get the best possible gear.
It's understandable because it's a f2p game and they have to make their money somehow, but Archeage has a subscription model. Most people when they pay a subscription would like to be on equal footing with everyone else.
The fair way to do it would be make free restricted (which it is, people are already complaining that free play will be crippled with labor points), make subscription full-access, and sell fluff/service items in the mall.
Otherwise the people that advance the furthest are going to be the ones that have spent the most money, and that is P2W.
The thing with Neverwinter is at least I can justify my purchases in that game because I wasn't paying a subscription. I don't know how I'll be able to justify paying money to keep up with people on top of a subscription.
There going be some stuff people not going like that can go from xp potions, then to all the way to some type of gear. A mmo that gives even 80% free will never make it this day of age with so many people thinking why should I pay for a free to play game why is free.
If they don't have the option to give you something better over free to play players then the funding will get cut then there no update no noting.
But people have to think it's when the game it's really out of beta and live, as the game is in beta when everything not set in stone, that's why there feedback on there forums, as your not going get everything you want but it's good of a try.
Just comes down to it, how far can I get with out paying a dime in to the game, that's what makes a game close to free to play, But just can't forget, someone have to pay up keep the server's running with out crossing the pay to win mark hard.
Or people just forget whats is a pay to win game is? go check out rune of magic and allods.
Yup, people still complaining about buying extra storage space and seemly refusing to acknowledge that others games some ftp do the same. Guess it's ok for other games to sell storage, xp boosts, crafting boosts, etc but for this game to do so makes it p2win.
They need to cry about something !
I mean what else can they cry about ?
Finaly an mmo that offers 23 professions that are stunningly well done !
Open world pvp !
Sea battles !
Scuba diving !
Fishing done extremely well !
North continent for sieges !
Subscription nomnomnom !!!
The kraken !!!!
Housing !!!
Farming !!!!!
And they expect it all to be FREE ?
I hope pay to enjoy / free to play dies out as these people are just a bunch of freeloaders not willing to support studio's and just want to have everything handed to them.
Glad Trion puts the middle finger up and say fack the freeloaders
Someone needs to link that cartoon again about how consumers will amazingly just purchase anything. You just have to ask for it and they will gladly give you their money.
- Ask people in beta access to pay $150 to debug the game: check!
- Subscription for a F2P game: check!
- Make the game annoying to play and add cash shop to make it playable: check!
As a sceptic, I would never have thought any of the above possible... but now I am just honestly and sincerely wondering what they will come up with next!
These guys are simply amazing and I'm now learning from them how to rob the general population better.
P2W is the future of online games, get used to it, it's not going to change.
It's not going to change because players love to pay for advantages and "exclusive" services.
Dear mr Mothanos and company.
We (I) didnt expect game to be free. I wanted to pay 15$/mo subscription and enjoy game without annoying cashshops, buff potions, payed cosmetics etc.
Thank you for understanding.
I made this post in the alpha forums, but people here might enjoy reading it, Trion is indeed going out of their way to make sure people are nickled and dimed at every turn, they have made deliberate changes to the games core features to move them behind paywalls that even being a patron(subscriber) doesnt circumvent.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hear what people are saying about labor and needing lots of it, but can you guys not see that isnt a perk?
You're basically being forced into a subscription just to function and enjoy the game.Now you have this loyalty function to reward people who have shown they want to keep the game going and paying monthly, but that is offset by the fact that everything in the loyalty shop is trash( instruments with no stats? a t-shrt? Daru chests that basically convert your loyalty into small amounts of gold/gilda?). And the items you truly would spend loyalty on aren't available (inventory expansion, mounts, gliders, costumes, gender change, race change, land appraisal) and it just surprises me that a lot of people seem to be accepting of this fact.
Trion is double dipping here. There are some unspoken rules when it comes to making a free to play game with a subscription, tera follows them, age of wushu follows them, star wars the old republic follows them, the list goes on. It is simple, if the player is a free to play customer only, he is a drifter, no real commitment to the game, as such he can enjoy basic features, but inventory, dungeons, any activity that can impact the game world or economy in any meaningful way is usually gated by some convince removal mechanics that get that player to commit just a bit more to the game. You get a limited inventory, limited experience gain, limited storage or bank slots, limited character slots the whole nine. And you offset these nuisances by A: Buying the item that frees up that paywall B: Pay the sub and live in a world where none of that nonsense exists.
Look at what we have here, i pay for patron status to show my support, hell i go deep, $150 deep, 3 months patron locked up, i should be golden, my money is reserved for costumes and other quality of life consumables, maybe ill buy my toon a nice dress or something - can i focus on that? NO!
-My patron status gives me the option to purchase 2 additional character slots for a maximum of 4. - Excuse me? I still have to buy them, my sub only gives me the option to purchase additional slots?
-I still have to spend my $20 of my $75 credit on inventory expansion? $40 if i decide to throw my bank into the mix - PER CHARACTER? - I guess i wont be making any alts - except to exploit that labor point potion if they are stupid enough to leave it like that. - Yes, i will exploit it, the same way i will never log off the game unless the servers go down.
I look at the loyalty shop and ask myself, what would i buy from this place... nothing. No Expansion scrolls, No loyalty specific mounts or pet armor, No loyalty specific battle pets, and some weird stat-less instruments. What is here that is supposed to be appealing to me? Labor pots? Maybe, but i might as well go deep if im going to buy those and just commit to using money, because loyalty isnt going to keep up with real world demands anyway.
So now, what is the value of patron status? Lets take a look:
• Bonus online Labor Point regeneration (10 per 5 minutes)
• Offline Labor Point regeneration (5 per 5 minutes)
• Increased maximum Labor Points cap (5000 maximum)
The game isnt playable on an enjoyable level without the above.
• 10% bonus to all Experience gained through combat or labor usage
I could not care less about 10% bonus experience, its nothing, it wont be noticeable at all, and well it shouldn't be, its a perma buff.
• 10% discount on Marketplace purchases (available after launch)
How many purchases a month do i need to make with real money to offset that 15 dollar investment for that 10% discount?
• 5 Loyalty Tokens per day for use in the Loyalty Store (awarded on first login of the day)
Going to have to step up that items in this shop if you want this to be an actual perk, as it stands now, those Daru chests are garbage.
• Ability to claim land by placing farms and houses
• Ability to pay in-game taxes on owned property
This is one of the bread and butter features of the game right? I guess patron for this major feature makes sense, thats a nice perk.
• Ability to post auctions on the Auction House by default
The only one of these that is actually a perk.
The first third of the patron could realistically be labeled as "MUST HAVE" Nobody in alpha at the moment can even argue that any player who wants to seriously play Archage, cannot do so with max 2k Labour points, and 5 online no offline regen - So if you decided youre going to play this game, you just paid $15 for these alone, not because you want to, but because you have to, period. But dont feel bad, this is your reward for paying out of pocket upfront to show your loyalty to Trion. Unless they triple dip. But they wouldnt do that, they wouldnt introduce another item in game that is simply a direct Real money to in game currency conversation that can and will fuck the economy in the long run. There is no way, they hate gold spammers, they want to protect the game economy.
APEX... CREDD...CHRONOSCROLLS... a turd by any other name is still a turd. I hate, hate, HATE these gold for sub items. Why is this here? Cash shop is already in game, if people want the features that come with the sub, pay the damn sub. The only function these item serve is for people to pay their subs with real money, and then add 10 of these on top of it so they can gain a huge influx of in game currency to go with it. IT IS THE VERY DEFINITION of pay to win. And it fucks with the economy in every game it exists within. If youre going to do this, why fuck around, just add the ability to convert gold into credits like every other pay to win game and be done with it. But lets not pretend this is not a pay to win feature. Ive played pay to play MMOs with people who are willing to spend $2000 a week on the game just to keep themselves and their guild on top, APEX adds nothing positive to the game. NOTHING.
Honestly if i could, i would refund my founders pack, and just put $150 bucks straight into the item mall. Because i assure you i could make that go a hell of a lot farther then all of those benefits the founders offers me, especially the 3 month patron it comes with, i would just buy 30 days and make sure come the 29th day i had enough gold to buy 6 months worth of APEX with in game gold.
And why arent more people upset about the fact that there is no damn loot in this game? Monsters only drops 32 flavors of coin purse, but no trash drops, no weapons, no armor, no accessories, NOTHING. Where the fuck is archenum dust coming from? Its certainly not the item mall, already figured that out, so how the hell are you even supposed to maintain a stable crafting economy when the main component has no decent method of acquisition? Are free to play players supposed to spend all of their game gold on EXPENSIVE crafted items only? The only loot to be had is quest reward? Im sorry, did we forget that a major part of the fun in an MMORPG is the adventure? You know, the exploration, the fighting, and the unearthed treasure that comes with it? Why the fuck am i killing that Centaur chieftain if he has no spoils on him? Ive said this in about 18 threads and it honestly bears repeating up until it is addressed - you cannot release this game with no loot. You just cant have a game where crafting is the be all end all, especially when one of the main regents damn near requires you deconstruct copious amounts of gear to get enough to even craft. Its almost as though you dont understand your own system, you already have labor points in game to control the rate of which new items are introduced into the game world, so why the hell is archenum dust nonexistent?
I dont mean to rant, but i like this game, i havent like an open world pvp game since lineage 2, i get that feeling again when i play this game, and as it stands now, If the game released tomorrow in its current state,i would not play it longer then 90 days and that is because that is what comes with my archenum package. I certainly will not spend a dime beyond my $75 credit. Some people might think the game is perfect in its current state, i am not one of those people. It is a great game, solid features, being ruined by poor decisions.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Blind faith serves no one.
This video is for you and people like you,
The game in its current state cost more then a WoW subscription to enjoy each month, if you think that is a good thing, then hope for the genre is lost, they are making games for people like you. The ones who think money = power, and being able to pay more means more then playing more.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Excellent post desertfoxx. I trust you don't get a ban, like I did, for stating the glaringly obvious.
I love the game, but as it stands, it should not be opened to the masses, until the trion 'shop' is in, tested , and tweaked. minimum.
Prob get me banned again, cos apparently I hate the game, couldnt be more wrong, I'm rarely off it.
So, you people still throwing a fit that this game will be p2win, how about this:
We have 2 different players, both are paying the month sub but don;t buy anything else.
Player A has the ability to play 12 hours a day.
Player B can only play 2 hours a day.
Well with both being even as having the sub and not buying anything else player A still has an advantage. Player A will level faster, obtain more money and other points and very quickly outpace player B. So is this fair? Should all games have something built in to stop people from getting an advantage for being able to play the game longer then others? I will say most people are going to say no although player A has an advantage.
Now lets add-in that player B realizes that with his limited play-time the most advantagous thing he can do is purchase some boosts from the shop. Now since the boost only give a small boost for a limited time he does have to buy multiple of them. Now before the boosts he would get in about 14 game hrs a week, so with the boost he now gets appx 15-16 hrs worth of time in only the 14 hours played. Well the boosts do help him gain ground a little faster but not that much and nothing that will break anything.
I also know that you will say, well if player A buys things, ok lets look at that. Player A in 7 days will play abt 84 hours of game time (12 hrs a day). So with the boosts he will not get abt 88-90 hrs worth of work into that 84 hours. Again it isn't that big of a jump, and lets admit...if someone is playing 12 hours a day they are still going to hit max levels a lot faster then people that can only play 2-4 hours a day.
So in each example the boosts which will help some will not be a deciding factor in the overall outcome.
Plus, it is still the players choice as to buy anything from the shop. Even though it maybe slower not buying things it will still be possible to play and have fun and that is the main reason to play a game.
If you are playing a game and not having fun then it is time to find another game.
So for everyone who is throwing a fit about the pay structure & shop, give it a rest. You all have decided you don't like and by not liking it it will cause/caused you to already not like the game, so for your peace of mind and everyone elses, give it a rest. Find a new game, something you are interested in, something that makes you happy. Go to that games forums (on here or elsewhere) and talk about how you like the game, but get a life and give this a rest.
I'm sure they will go La-la-la over your post and keep on whining but good try anyway.
I know, it is unfortunate that some people seem to only find joy in throwing a fit at little things. Especially if they have no plans what-so-ever to even support the thing they are throwing a fit about. Things would be so much nicer if people would take that energy and put it towards something good. Because with all of the arguing I would bet that few people are now turned off on the game and from some I have talked with there are people now looking forward to trying the game.
In the end it will be how many people spend money in the shops (not only Archeage but other games) that will determine which directions companies go. At this stage of the genre it appears that cash shops make good money and I expect that more and more games will come out with them. Hopefully somewhere in the future of mmos companies will find that happy medium and the player base will either accept it or not.
Who knows, 5 years from now the mmo player base may have changed enough and closed their wallets enough to make companies take notice, but for now it won't happen and the arguing does not do any good. In fact it only brings more attention to the game and people that might not even to think about it start looking into it.
Oh well, I spoke my peace. I know those against the shops will fight back, let them. The more they throw a fit the more attention to this and other games they are providing and they are helping give free advertising to those games.
Your examples are... I don't even know what to say. If said person B is not putting the same amount of time/effort into the game then he is not entitled to enjoy the same success in the game. No amount of RL money should be able to change that. This is basically how things work in any endeavour.
The subscription should be there to provide a leveled field, not a slightly higher ground compared to the "free to play" crowd wallowing in the gutters. We've been led to beleive that ArcheAge would have the classical 2 steps:
1. f2p bunch trying the game out without a large commitment in time/money and
2. subscribers who find value in the game and are willing to pay for it.
Introducing aditional benefits and features beyond the reach of a standard MMO subscription that greatly affect the in-game character effectivness is destroying the concept of a leveled field, which is something I feel every reasonable person should voice their concern about, so no, we will not go "find a new game, get a life and give this a rest", as you put it. Some of us are finding the core systems of THIS GAME interesting and would be willing to try them out and potentially suport the game with our money, but not with Trion making adjustments that are motivated by greed.
They may have a diamond on their hands. Diamonds can sell on their own. No need to shit all over it and charge extra if you would like yours to be clean upon purchase just to earn a little more, while screwing with your customer base.
Look at the Star Wars MMO free to play with option to get extra items if needed. Notice the big "IF" meaning it is not necessary to get all that stuff it is optional for someone that wants too. Just because someone is able to progress faster than you doesn't make it a P2W game because everyone will eventually be level 50 and everyone will eventually get the items. If people are so worried in their minds about this then just subscribe to the game and be done with it.
I would give you a guest pass to SWOTR, but then I wouldn't be able to find a way to live with myself afterwards....
LP pots are tired to account, so is LP points. Doesn`t matter if u got 1 or 10 cheracter slots. All you can boost is 1000 LP once in 12 h.
Following the P2W description of OP i came to conclusion, that all MMO on the market are P2W.
<a href="http://www.danasoft.com"><img src="http://www.danasoft.com/sig/499105419258.jpg"; border="0"></a><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px;"><p>Sign by Danasoft - <a href="http://www.danasoft.com">For Backgrounds and Layouts</a></p></div>
Not matter what way you put it you gain an advantage, does that mean P2W? I don't know, so i choose not to say it as the phrase is too open to interpretation. But overall you gain an advantage over other players, when you sub your not getting fluff or cosmetic stuff, same with the with buying the labor points, they're not some random points that are meaningless, they're a key component in this game, pretty much everything revolves around it. This is no different from any other F2P allowing to pay to gain advantages, even if you can eventually get same shit, still doesn't stop it from giving you the advantage.
Imho they should just make it an actually P2P game instead of this round about way so people don't feel bad or care about paying for the advantages *shrug*
So, 2 players paid the exact same fee and received the exact same service........exactly and identically. What's your point?
Should we apply this logic to higher education? Should we compare 2 students? 1 student busted his ass and fared much better than the 2nd student who did just enough work to pass with average grades. How unfair it is for the lazier of the 2 students since he paid the same tuition as the hard working student.
QFT. Rather than accepting the criticisms and concerns, people like them prefer to place the blame on the "freeloaders" who are ruining the genre while some of us will gladly pay a sub if the game is worth it and they don't try to nickle and dime you on top of the sub. Apparently this has become the foreign concept.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.