I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam. You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get? NOTHING! The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment. Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO. Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment? Which one would do that? Let me tell you none.
There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.
There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.
Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )
And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.
Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.
How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.
So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment, investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.
Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment. You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.
An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards. Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.
I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.
What are you referring to? If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment. A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.
Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.
No it is not. You effectively by an unfinished game at a knock down price. You do not know if the game will or will not ever be finished, and if it is you do not know what that finished product will be. You do not buy a share in the company and the associated rewards should it prove successful.
So you only get something if the company does well. Sounds like an investment to me.
I am not going to explain it again. It is not an investment, just accept it and move on. I even think you know you are wrong on this one.
You keep explaining how its an investment...
No, I keep explaining how it is the purchase of an unfinished product. Unless you think that buying a loaf of bread is an investment in a supermarket. The only difference in that example being that you get a loaf of bread and not the promise of a loaf of bread from a "baker".
If im purchasing an unfinished game then why do people not get anything until its finished, if its finished?
I don't know I've been pretty happy with what I've backed on kickstarter. Wasteland 2, Shroud of the Avatar, Project Eternity to name a few.
I think its important to know the people you are backing and try to get as much information as possible as to how they are setting up to be a success. Backing people with at least some history and organizational know how. This isn't a kickstarter problem, the platform has been really good in bringing some things to market (wasteland 2 for example) that otherwise would never have been made. Just be sure you know who and what you are backing before you do it.
I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam. You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get? NOTHING! The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment. Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO. Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment? Which one would do that? Let me tell you none.
There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.
There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.
Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )
And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.
Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.
How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.
So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment, investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.
Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment. You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.
An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards. Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.
I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.
What are you referring to? If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment. A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.
Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.
No it is not. You effectively by an unfinished game at a knock down price. You do not know if the game will or will not ever be finished, and if it is you do not know what that finished product will be. You do not buy a share in the company and the associated rewards should it prove successful.
So you only get something if the company does well. Sounds like an investment to me.
I am not going to explain it again. It is not an investment, just accept it and move on. I even think you know you are wrong on this one.
You keep explaining how its an investment...
No, I keep explaining how it is the purchase of an unfinished product. Unless you think that buying a loaf of bread is an investment in a supermarket. The only difference in that example being that you get a loaf of bread and not the promise of a loaf of bread from a "baker".
If im purchasing an unfinished game then why do people not get anything until its finished, if its finished?
quote]Originally posted by erictlewis I got into the great scam star citizen. I will call it a scam, I thought it was going to be a game it has turned out hey you buy yet another ship. What we have a a very flawed alfa. What it actually is hey you buy more ships. That is all I see, more and more ships. And a dogfight simulator that is junk.
I don't think we will ever see a game in the near future. I though it was going to take them 3 years. I think more like 10 at this pace.
[/quote]
Ah star citizen the sci fi buy more ship simulator. They are bringing you a simulator and have delivered the worlds first and most expensive buy more ships simulator. That is the game so stop complaining.
Two have come to fruition and the other is pending.
I have no problems with the two that were successful, one being a game and one being for a movie.
My thought is try to be smart and try to lower expectations to something "reasonable".
I've seen kickstarter programs (especially for games) that looked amazing but still didn't invest precisely because they just seemed like technical presentations.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam. You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get? NOTHING! The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment. Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO. Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment? Which one would do that? Let me tell you none.
I used to view kickstarter like that but lately I think kickstarter is the best thing that has every happened since sliced bread. Essentially, it is a way of taking money from those who are obviously going to squander it anyway and put it into the hands of more capable persons. So resources won't go to waste. Win/Win I'd say.
Pretty much.
I've gave to quite a few Kickstarters and enjoyed it. Basically my thought is..
"Is this something I'd buy? How much would I pay for it? Do I get one if it's successful?"
It's great for artists and people making actual things. It's kind of dumb if you're wanting to fancy yourself an investor. There's better ways to move those funds.
When you give money to a company through kickstarter, you are essentially giving them money in hopes they complete the project. You like the idea, and you wish that idea would be realized.
If you gave money, 100% expecting to get something back, than frankly ... you are pretty ... *coughs* ...( Use your imagination as many words can fit here)
As for the whole oculus rift business. There is nothing wrong with what they did. Matter of fact, how else did you expect them to fund the project? You honestly think what they made from kickstarter was enough? Did you not read what the kickstarter was for? It was to get the dev kit in the hands of developers. The only people who did wrong are the ones complaining because they failed to READ and COMPREHEND. It was pretty obvious they where going to need more funding from another company. People are just pissed because it's facebook lol. They are butt hurt for pretty much no reason at all.
I personally don't even understand why so many people hate facebook. Pretty stupid if you ask me.
Anyway, kickstarter itself isn't a scam .. but it CAN be used as a scam. You jsut need to learn to read and really think about what you are putting money into. If it sounds to good to be true ... than it probably is. Solar *coughs* panel FREAKING *coughs* roadways. People really don't think these things through. They hear something cool and blindly throw money at it.
Edit: Oh and I know that was indiegogo .. It's still the same kind of website.
I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam. You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get? NOTHING! The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment. Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO. Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment? Which one would do that? Let me tell you none.
Kickstarter is the same thing as games sold when their developers have already lined up DLC's to release 2 weeks later. They want you to pay for something before the development is complete so that the money doesn't have to come from their bank account or from a loan that they needed. Essentially you are loaning them money with 0% interest and if they default on the loan the only person paying for it is you. I'd sooner carve out my left eyeball with a butterknife than either pay for a game I know is DLC bound or submit money to kickstarter. The entire concept of both is acid to smart people.
The games that I have backed on kickstarter and have released are some of the best I have played in a very long time..
Currently playing Divinity: Origional Sin and this is one amazing game and so far is the game of the year for me.
Kickstarter is the best thing to happen in the gaming world since steam.. and I look forward to funding even more games. Yes of course do some research into the people making the game i mean one guy claiming he is going to make the best mmorpg in the world but has never worked on a computer game before is just never going to happen..
Originally posted by Neobloodline3d
Kickstarter is the same thing as games sold when their developers have already lined up DLC's to release 2 weeks later. They want you to pay for something before the development is complete so that the money doesn't have to come from their bank account or from a loan that they needed. Essentially you are loaning them money with 0% interest and if they default on the loan the only person paying for it is you. I'd sooner carve out my left eyeball with a butterknife than either pay for a game I know is DLC bound or submit money to kickstarter. The entire concept of both is acid to smart people.
That is not how games are made.. you dont jsut take out a loan to make a game.. Normally you need to sell your idea to one of the big publishers who will then fund your game. Problem with that is the big publishers dont want to take any risks with their cash so only back COD clnoes and WOW clones. In the mmo world that is the reason why we have only seen themepark clones since wow was reased no one i putting out anything that is really different from the standard..
Kickstarter allows the people making the games to keep control and develop the game into waht they want it to be, so we are now getting games that are totally different to what we have been seeing over the last few years and you know what they are turning out to be bloody good games as well.
Just look at the upcoming mmorpg The Repopulation it looks amazing and I cant wait to play it but it never would have happened if it was not for kickstarter.
Originally posted by PioneerStew
An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards. Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.
I dont agree I am very much enjoying Divinity: Original Sin that is one huge reward for backing the kickstarter for that.
Originally posted by Crusades Has kickstarter ever taken someone seeking funding to court? Masses taking them to court is a failure. In the meantime they live extravagant lives and squander your money and the just walk away from it all when shit hits the fan. Post a 5 minute progress video and then grab a beer and head back out to the beach partying it up.
You think the people making games with the kickstarter funds are living an extravagant life style ? LOL sure sitting on the beach all day long then jump in their ferrari and drive home.. wow just wow..
You pay for a new mmo .. You invest money and time in that, they can shut down the servers anytime or totally remake the game .. SWG
Either way you are investing into a game, one you get time to play and trust it will keep running, the other you trust they will keep working on it and you get a good return on whatever you gave.
Ok, first of all, I love the scam talk, I really do. The majority of the people working on these types of projects can't even support their family on the money gained through Kickstarter, especially when it comes to game development.
Now, for a couple sobering facts for people actually interested in being logical, whether you consider it an investment or not, the number of games funded through Kickstarter which actually shipped, versus those which died is HUGE! If I could get that sort of risk/value proposition on an investment it would be a no-brainer. You can go check yourself:
Now, in the case of Yogcast, they hired on a contractor which was probably their first mistake. Then they paid them upfront. There's another mistake. This is what happens when someone without any experience says, "Hey! Wouldn't it be cool to make a game?!?! We run a popular YouTube channel, therefore we can make a video game. It's EXACTLY the same!" Well, it's not. SURPRISE!
Now, that being said, I believe that they said that physical rewards WERE going to be shipped and, secondly, they will be looking to deliver alternative content (specifically TUG) in place of the failed game. If that's a scam, it's probably the most elaborate, most painful scam in the history of mankind.
Anyway, I'm sorry to rain on the haters, but it's not all death and decay like you'd like to believe. In fact, games through Kickstarter probably deliver at a better rate than those that are funded through a publisher. Most people don't understand the number of projects in development that get s$@tcanned behind closed doors. Shoot, Kickstarter might deliver games at a better rate than publisher games that have been ANNOUNCED!! It's actually quite possible.
Once you get past what people believe is going on with kickstarters and guessing on delivery rates and how people are living or spending your donation money it's really pretty simple. Do whatever research you can. If you feel strongly about it donate and hopefully you have a positive outcome from your donation. There's going to be legit campaigns to back and there's going to be scammers and even some that may fall in between. Pretty much par for the course when humans are involved.
Originally posted by allday88 See my above post. It's 1/3 and of that 1/3 some are unfinished and just pushed through anyways cause they were out of money.
from same article -- only 5% outright failed to deliver
the 1/3 you refer to (37%) includes projects still in development with delays
delays are a commonality to most KS regardless of whats being delivered
Originally posted by allday88 See my above post. It's 1/3 and of that 1/3 some are unfinished and just pushed through anyways cause they were out of money.
from same article -- only 5% outright failed to deliver
the 1/3 you refer to (37%) includes projects still in development with delays
delays are a commonality to most KS regardless of whats being delivered
Perhaps I should have titled this differently. I believe there are success stories, but there are these black marks that kill it for many. How do we make it better? Should kickstarter be more of an investment rather than a donation? I quote Nadia here too because you support many projects and you clearly have different tastes than I do, I think the things that you support are less likely to fail. I don't know where to draw the line, but there are many projects I don't care as much about, it seems mmorpgs and games tailored for the adult audience more so have a higher risk than games tailored toward children. So either way the tale of the numbers would need to be examined a little deeper.
If I am putting my money into a very risky proposition such as a kitckstarter project, then I am going to do it as an investment where I see a share of the profits should the venture prove successful.
I am not going to buy the promise of a product (usually for absurdly inflated prices with some as yet uncoded fluff thrown in) that may or may not materialise and may or may not match the description given at the outset. That is just madness.
Ok you are missing what it is saying. Only 37% ever reach fully funded. Of that 37% they broke it down more saying of that 37% 3% gets cancelled. So what it's saying is the failure rate is 65%.
$21 million funded for FAILED projects
$17 million funded for successful/ kind of finished products.
If a KS failed its fund goals - no one is charged and there is ZERO funding
are you aware of this?
Example:
After the Reset videogame had a KS in Dec2013
I pledged $125.00 for it back then, the KS failed, I was never charged any fees
some (many?) gamers have never used kickstarter
here's how it works for charges
- you make a pledge, at the time of the pledge, no funding is given to project
- the KS project runs until it's deadline date
- at the deadline date, the project meet it's stated financial goal or not
if financial goal is met, pledges are charged
if KS fails its stated goal, pledges are not charged
I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam. You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get? NOTHING! The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment. Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO. Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment? Which one would do that? Let me tell you none.
First off... When you use KS to support a project you are donating money.... You are not an investor. So why the *bleeeeeeeep* in all the *bleeeeeep* of *bleeeep* *bleeeeep* should you get anything outside of that your donation level indicate.
Same goes for projects that does not come to fruition... There is a reason these projects have not found any other way of funding... That is because they are often either high risk low return or to small to be worked on. When you donate you accept the risk that a project might not make it. That is the way it works.
KS is a brilliant platform because it let anylittle crazy idea get five min in the spotlight... Just like how Youtube let everyone be a tv-star and podcast let everyone be a radio-personality. Not everyone of those make it either.
If you do not want to risk your money you simply do not donate to a KS project.... Simple as that.
I think kickstarter is nothing more than a scam. You have oculus taking millions turning that around into billion, what did the kickstart supporters get? NOTHING! The supports say it's like sharktank or any investment. Well for those who actually invest yes for kickstarter NO. Tell me which shark would put money into something with a guarantee of ZERO return in investment? Which one would do that? Let me tell you none.
There are episodes of shark tank where people who been on kickstarter come on the show and get invested in...So I guess not none.
There is a guarantee as well, they are bound by law to produce something to give to their backers. If not they can be taken to court. If you check out their FAQ it says they sign something before hand, only problem is kickstarter will not get involved if they think the company actually tried producing something, meaning the mass would have to take them to court by themselves.
Shark tank invests so regardless of the kickstarter or not they are not giving them money like kickstarter did. When a kickstarter company starts to offer profit sharing with its backers, then they'll be on the same ground as shark tank ( kind of )
And one example of the state filing a lawsuit really doesn't open the doors wide on making sure a kickstater always delivers. If a kickstarter could show they actually used that money on the game but just ran out of funding there is nothing anyone could do to them in a court. The kickstarter that is getting sued produced nothing and has no evidence that they even worked on their project.
Isnt it the exact same thing? I invest $20, I either get a return on my investment for a $50-60 game, or the game doesnt produce anything and you lose out on your investment.
How is that different from investing in a company? Someone invests in a company and a a deal is made, if the company does well they get about a 20-30% return on your investment. If the company tanks you get nothing.
So with kickstarter you get a 200-300% return on your investment, investing in a company you get a 20-30% return.
Correct me if I am wrong, but kickstarter is not an investment. You pay money towards a game that may or may not materialise, and if it does may or may not match (the usually over-stated) description.
An investment is a risk with the possibility of huge rewards. Kickstarter is a risk WITHOUT the possibility of huge rewards.
I think 200-300% return on your investment is a huge reward. That is considered a great investment among any investor.
What are you referring to? If you are referring to an arbitrary price that a developer attaches to a game, that is not a return on an investment. A return on an investment is taking a share of the profits made.
Yes. The share of the profit is the game created, its the share you agreed on before hand like any investment.
No it is not. You effectively by an unfinished game at a knock down price. You do not know if the game will or will not ever be finished, and if it is you do not know what that finished product will be. You do not buy a share in the company and the associated rewards should it prove successful.
So you only get something if the company does well. Sounds like an investment to me.
by your argument every time you go to the store and buy a head of lettuce you investing in the farm that grew it. please stop as your just embarrassing yourself now if you don't know the difference between product and profit. kickstarter backers may get a product, investers may get a profit
Originally posted by allday88 See my above post. It's 1/3 and of that 1/3 some are unfinished and just pushed through anyways cause they were out of money.
from same article -- only 5% outright failed to deliver
the 1/3 you refer to (37%) includes projects still in development with delays
delays are a commonality to most KS regardless of whats being delivered
Ok you are missing what it is saying. Only 37% ever reach fully funded. Of that 37% they broke it down more saying of that 37% 3% gets cancelled. So what it's saying is the failure rate is 65%.
$21 million funded for FAILED projects
$17 million funded for successful/ kind of finished products.
Its a losing bet plain and simple.
I can appreciate someone actually bringing real statistical evidence to the table. However, I physically verified the same projects and every single project in 2009 shipped something. Now I only sampled like 20 projects in 2010 (earliest 20) and only 1 actually died and never delivered anything (Rapstar Heroes). All others delivered something. So while I can appreciate the statistics, I'm not sure about the evaluation that was done or anything else like that. Reviewing 30 projects manually was a major pain in the a$$, so I highly doubt that he manually verified every single project quoted.
As a note, I only verified that the game was actually available for download or purchase or play. I didn't validate the tiers, etc. So I suppose it could be left open to interpretation, but as far as delivering the actual game goes, it seems like a pretty good bet to me. 1 failure of 30?
Comments
what?
I don't know I've been pretty happy with what I've backed on kickstarter. Wasteland 2, Shroud of the Avatar, Project Eternity to name a few.
I think its important to know the people you are backing and try to get as much information as possible as to how they are setting up to be a success. Backing people with at least some history and organizational know how. This isn't a kickstarter problem, the platform has been really good in bringing some things to market (wasteland 2 for example) that otherwise would never have been made. Just be sure you know who and what you are backing before you do it.
you don't like being wrong, do you
quote]Originally posted by erictlewis
I got into the great scam star citizen. I will call it a scam, I thought it was going to be a game it has turned out hey you buy yet another ship. What we have a a very flawed alfa. What it actually is hey you buy more ships. That is all I see, more and more ships. And a dogfight simulator that is junk.
I don't think we will ever see a game in the near future. I though it was going to take them 3 years. I think more like 10 at this pace.
[/quote]
Ah star citizen the sci fi buy more ship simulator. They are bringing you a simulator and have delivered the worlds first and most expensive buy more ships simulator. That is the game so stop complaining.
Well, I've kickstarted three things.
Two have come to fruition and the other is pending.
I have no problems with the two that were successful, one being a game and one being for a movie.
My thought is try to be smart and try to lower expectations to something "reasonable".
I've seen kickstarter programs (especially for games) that looked amazing but still didn't invest precisely because they just seemed like technical presentations.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Pretty much.
I've gave to quite a few Kickstarters and enjoyed it. Basically my thought is..
"Is this something I'd buy? How much would I pay for it? Do I get one if it's successful?"
It's great for artists and people making actual things. It's kind of dumb if you're wanting to fancy yourself an investor. There's better ways to move those funds.
a yo ho ho
When you give money to a company through kickstarter, you are essentially giving them money in hopes they complete the project. You like the idea, and you wish that idea would be realized.
If you gave money, 100% expecting to get something back, than frankly ... you are pretty ... *coughs* ...( Use your imagination as many words can fit here)
As for the whole oculus rift business. There is nothing wrong with what they did. Matter of fact, how else did you expect them to fund the project? You honestly think what they made from kickstarter was enough? Did you not read what the kickstarter was for? It was to get the dev kit in the hands of developers. The only people who did wrong are the ones complaining because they failed to READ and COMPREHEND. It was pretty obvious they where going to need more funding from another company. People are just pissed because it's facebook lol. They are butt hurt for pretty much no reason at all.
I personally don't even understand why so many people hate facebook. Pretty stupid if you ask me.
Anyway, kickstarter itself isn't a scam .. but it CAN be used as a scam. You jsut need to learn to read and really think about what you are putting money into. If it sounds to good to be true ... than it probably is. Solar *coughs* panel FREAKING *coughs* roadways. People really don't think these things through. They hear something cool and blindly throw money at it.
Edit: Oh and I know that was indiegogo .. It's still the same kind of website.
Kickstarter is the same thing as games sold when their developers have already lined up DLC's to release 2 weeks later. They want you to pay for something before the development is complete so that the money doesn't have to come from their bank account or from a loan that they needed. Essentially you are loaning them money with 0% interest and if they default on the loan the only person paying for it is you. I'd sooner carve out my left eyeball with a butterknife than either pay for a game I know is DLC bound or submit money to kickstarter. The entire concept of both is acid to smart people.
The games that I have backed on kickstarter and have released are some of the best I have played in a very long time..
Currently playing Divinity: Origional Sin and this is one amazing game and so far is the game of the year for me.
Kickstarter is the best thing to happen in the gaming world since steam.. and I look forward to funding even more games. Yes of course do some research into the people making the game i mean one guy claiming he is going to make the best mmorpg in the world but has never worked on a computer game before is just never going to happen..
That is not how games are made.. you dont jsut take out a loan to make a game.. Normally you need to sell your idea to one of the big publishers who will then fund your game. Problem with that is the big publishers dont want to take any risks with their cash so only back COD clnoes and WOW clones. In the mmo world that is the reason why we have only seen themepark clones since wow was reased no one i putting out anything that is really different from the standard..
Kickstarter allows the people making the games to keep control and develop the game into waht they want it to be, so we are now getting games that are totally different to what we have been seeing over the last few years and you know what they are turning out to be bloody good games as well.
Just look at the upcoming mmorpg The Repopulation it looks amazing and I cant wait to play it but it never would have happened if it was not for kickstarter.
I dont agree I am very much enjoying Divinity: Original Sin that is one huge reward for backing the kickstarter for that.You think the people making games with the kickstarter funds are living an extravagant life style ? LOL sure sitting on the beach all day long then jump in their ferrari and drive home.. wow just wow..
You pay for a new mmo .. You invest money and time in that, they can shut down the servers anytime or totally remake the game .. SWG
Either way you are investing into a game, one you get time to play and trust it will keep running, the other you trust they will keep working on it and you get a good return on whatever you gave.
Basically it's risk vs reward
Mr Brad got zero funds from a failed kickstarter - Brad raised those funds at his own pantheon site
I'm a kickstarter fan but i agree this kickstarter was horribly mismanaged
when a lead artist walks away with 35k without finishing expected work
EQ2 fan sites
Ok, first of all, I love the scam talk, I really do. The majority of the people working on these types of projects can't even support their family on the money gained through Kickstarter, especially when it comes to game development.
Now, for a couple sobering facts for people actually interested in being logical, whether you consider it an investment or not, the number of games funded through Kickstarter which actually shipped, versus those which died is HUGE! If I could get that sort of risk/value proposition on an investment it would be a no-brainer. You can go check yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_crowdfunding_projects
Now, in the case of Yogcast, they hired on a contractor which was probably their first mistake. Then they paid them upfront. There's another mistake. This is what happens when someone without any experience says, "Hey! Wouldn't it be cool to make a game?!?! We run a popular YouTube channel, therefore we can make a video game. It's EXACTLY the same!" Well, it's not. SURPRISE!
Now, that being said, I believe that they said that physical rewards WERE going to be shipped and, secondly, they will be looking to deliver alternative content (specifically TUG) in place of the failed game. If that's a scam, it's probably the most elaborate, most painful scam in the history of mankind.
Anyway, I'm sorry to rain on the haters, but it's not all death and decay like you'd like to believe. In fact, games through Kickstarter probably deliver at a better rate than those that are funded through a publisher. Most people don't understand the number of projects in development that get s$@tcanned behind closed doors. Shoot, Kickstarter might deliver games at a better rate than publisher games that have been ANNOUNCED!! It's actually quite possible.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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i dont know what the KS success rate is for videogames
but there are already over 100 playable kickstarter games on steam
http://store.steampowered.com/sale/kickstarter
EQ2 fan sites
from same article -- only 5% outright failed to deliver
the 1/3 you refer to (37%) includes projects still in development with delays
delays are a commonality to most KS regardless of whats being delivered
http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/18/technology/innovation/kickstarter-ship-delay/
EQ2 fan sites
from same article -- only 5% outright failed to deliver
the 1/3 you refer to (37%) includes projects still in development with delays
delays are a commonality to most KS regardless of whats being delivered
http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/18/technology/innovation/kickstarter-ship-delay/
Perhaps I should have titled this differently. I believe there are success stories, but there are these black marks that kill it for many. How do we make it better? Should kickstarter be more of an investment rather than a donation? I quote Nadia here too because you support many projects and you clearly have different tastes than I do, I think the things that you support are less likely to fail. I don't know where to draw the line, but there are many projects I don't care as much about, it seems mmorpgs and games tailored for the adult audience more so have a higher risk than games tailored toward children. So either way the tale of the numbers would need to be examined a little deeper.i have pledged to many KS projects but most of them are boardgames / rpg books
videogames are a larger projects with more risks
EQ2 fan sites
If I am putting my money into a very risky proposition such as a kitckstarter project, then I am going to do it as an investment where I see a share of the profits should the venture prove successful.
I am not going to buy the promise of a product (usually for absurdly inflated prices with some as yet uncoded fluff thrown in) that may or may not materialise and may or may not match the description given at the outset. That is just madness.
If a KS failed its fund goals - no one is charged and there is ZERO funding
are you aware of this?
Example:
After the Reset videogame had a KS in Dec2013
I pledged $125.00 for it back then, the KS failed, I was never charged any fees
some (many?) gamers have never used kickstarter
here's how it works for charges
- you make a pledge, at the time of the pledge, no funding is given to project
- the KS project runs until it's deadline date
- at the deadline date, the project meet it's stated financial goal or not
if financial goal is met, pledges are charged
if KS fails its stated goal, pledges are not charged
EQ2 fan sites
First off... When you use KS to support a project you are donating money.... You are not an investor. So why the *bleeeeeeeep* in all the *bleeeeeep* of *bleeeep* *bleeeeep* should you get anything outside of that your donation level indicate.
Same goes for projects that does not come to fruition... There is a reason these projects have not found any other way of funding... That is because they are often either high risk low return or to small to be worked on. When you donate you accept the risk that a project might not make it. That is the way it works.
KS is a brilliant platform because it let anylittle crazy idea get five min in the spotlight... Just like how Youtube let everyone be a tv-star and podcast let everyone be a radio-personality. Not everyone of those make it either.
If you do not want to risk your money you simply do not donate to a KS project.... Simple as that.
This have been a good conversation
by your argument every time you go to the store and buy a head of lettuce you investing in the farm that grew it. please stop as your just embarrassing yourself now if you don't know the difference between product and profit. kickstarter backers may get a product, investers may get a profit
The problem most have is when the project meets it goal and still fall apart after collecting the money as far as i understand it.
This have been a good conversation
i agree that's a problem and any project runs that risk
but KS projects that take money and fail are in the minority
regarding, Yogventures, it was a mismanaged mess
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/2b4bzm/yogventures_final_kickstarter_update/
from my own experience, ive backed over 320 KS projects in the last 12 months
https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/587845789
25% of them failed their goals (read: I was not charged)
zero of my funded KS projects have failed to deliver yet
but most have delays
EQ2 fan sites
I can appreciate someone actually bringing real statistical evidence to the table. However, I physically verified the same projects and every single project in 2009 shipped something. Now I only sampled like 20 projects in 2010 (earliest 20) and only 1 actually died and never delivered anything (Rapstar Heroes). All others delivered something. So while I can appreciate the statistics, I'm not sure about the evaluation that was done or anything else like that. Reviewing 30 projects manually was a major pain in the a$$, so I highly doubt that he manually verified every single project quoted.
As a note, I only verified that the game was actually available for download or purchase or play. I didn't validate the tiers, etc. So I suppose it could be left open to interpretation, but as far as delivering the actual game goes, it seems like a pretty good bet to me. 1 failure of 30?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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