The rose colored SWG glasses in this article are through the roof. "As time went on though and the game grew in popularity, the developers’ vision of the game changed as well"...no...the NGE came about because the game was losing popularity, not the opposite. it was also the most buggy MMO I have ever played, and that was years after its launch. From riding my speeder and getting stuck in someone's house due to insane popup (at full settings mind you), to having to wait 5-6 days for a GM to remove me from the house (you needed 'permission form the owner" to open the front door), to spending months of playtime+luck becoming one of the few pre NGE Jedi, and having my light saber do 1-1 damage and having SOE tell me that it was a "known issue". i broke a 100$ mouse out of a fit of rage because of SWG. Its "customization" at launch I agree has not been matched, but overall the game was one of the most non polished poorly implemented games I have ever played.
I would add Chronicles of Spellborn, if only because of how the game would've affected the industry had it remained alive with its slightly better AI/monster groups and aimed combat which the current industry is just recently getting into.
Originally posted by ste2000 WAR deserved to die as it was the first MMO that gave the start to this WoW clone craze that is plaguing the indudtry.
It's PvE was very obviously a WoW rip off, and no one at Mythic actually wanted it in there in that way (it was forced in by EA), but most of the game was its own design.
The first true WoW clone was LotRO, which had nothing of its own to bring to the table. If you played the alpha of Middle Earth Online, and saw what it became... yeah, WoW clone.
EA and Mythic's arrogance killed WAR. They could have taken the game to a freemium model and it would still be alive and making enough money to actually fix the issues it had.
I really liked the PvE side of that game. It was a darker version of WoW's PvE and i loved it for that. But the game wasnt worth a sub to me so i never played beyond their unlimited (limited) trial. Sure it was a pvp focused game but the PvE was what it grabbed me.
Too bad a lot of games i really like get managed and killed by the wrong companies.
Personally I would not see FTP as a savior of "dying" mmos.
Provide good content and you will survive. Fix broken "key" mechanics and you will survive. Look at World of Warcraft for example. A lot of us played that game. Many of us evolved as gamer and moved on. Some of us stayed and are still enjoying it. That means they get a lot of new players every year. They must be doing something good with updating their content.
Even FTP (or BTP) games need to come up with something that will pay their bills. Personally I rather pay a subscription, so everyone ingame has the same chance to get an item or do certain content. With a cash-shop I always have the feeling not the entire dev team is used to provide good content for all the players.
I'm still very sad that TR was killed by NCWest. It was the only SF MMORPG I actually enjoyed to play. I still hope some day Lord British will regain the right to publish it and do it right from the 2nd launch on ;-)
Originally posted by doodphace The rose colored SWG glasses in this article are through the roof. "As time went on though and the game grew in popularity, the developers’ vision of the game changed as well"...no...the NGE came about because the game was losing popularity, not the opposite. it was also the most buggy MMO I have ever played, and that was years after its launch. From riding my speeder and getting stuck in someone's house due to insane popup (at full settings mind you), to having to wait 5-6 days for a GM to remove me from the house (you needed 'permission form the owner" to open the front door), to spending months of playtime+luck becoming one of the few pre NGE Jedi, and having my light saber do 1-1 damage and having SOE tell me that it was a "known issue". i broke a 100$ mouse out of a fit of rage because of SWG. Its "customization" at launch I agree has not been matched, but overall the game was one of the most non polished poorly implemented games I have ever played.
Personally I would not see FTP as a savior of "dying" mmos.
Provide good content and you will survive. Fix broken "key" mechanics and you will survive. Look at World of Warcraft for example. A lot of us played that game. Many of us evolved as gamer and moved on. Some of us stayed and are still enjoying it. That means they get a lot of new players every year. They must be doing something good with updating their content.
Even FTP (or BTP) games need to come up with something that will pay their bills. Personally I rather pay a subscription, so everyone ingame has the same chance to get an item or do certain content. With a cash-shop I always have the feeling not the entire dev team is used to provide good content for all the players.
I miss Spellborn and Vanguard.
WoW's sub numbers have been going down every year as a whole. The only reason WoW is still surviving as a sub is because it always had soooo many.
I don't think it's impossible for a new MMO to survive on subs long term. But it's damn near impossible. The market is just way to saturated now. When WoW came out there was only a handful of western MMOs. When EQ1 came out there was like 4?!
Originally posted by M.D.33 Sorry but your source is wrong, Tabula Rasa went from 2. Nov. 2007 till 28. Feb. 2009, its far longer than 4 month, but I agree its not long enough.
Thanks for saving me the trouble but will post for clarifying for them the run time for the game (the best MMO to date imho). He seems to have forgotten the YEAR and (almost) 4 months part, heheh. Still to short and would still be to short if it had stayed up and closed down yesterday.
Also, fyi, typo on first Garriot in the article and on a was (have wa).
Originally posted by ste2000 WAR deserved to die as it was the first MMO that gave the start to this WoW clone craze that is plaguing the indudtry.
It's PvE was very obviously a WoW rip off, and no one at Mythic actually wanted it in there in that way (it was forced in by EA), but most of the game was its own design.
The first true WoW clone was LotRO, which had nothing of its own to bring to the table....
...other than Monster Play, playable instruments with support for writing and collecting music sheets, character moods, one of the most extensive animation sets ever created for an MMO, and the traits and deeds system. You may not like these features and they may not be important to you, personally, but to deny they are there would be silly.
As to ste2000's statement, I am quite sure that was made tongue in cheek to troll those unfamiliar with the Warhammer/Warcraft IPs.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by doodphace The rose colored SWG glasses in this article are through the roof. "As time went on though and the game grew in popularity, the developers’ vision of the game changed as well"...no...the NGE came about because the game was losing popularity, not the opposite. it was also the most buggy MMO I have ever played, and that was years after its launch. From riding my speeder and getting stuck in someone's house due to insane popup (at full settings mind you), to having to wait 5-6 days for a GM to remove me from the house (you needed 'permission form the owner" to open the front door), to spending months of playtime+luck becoming one of the few pre NGE Jedi, and having my light saber do 1-1 damage and having SOE tell me that it was a "known issue". i broke a 100$ mouse out of a fit of rage because of SWG. Its "customization" at launch I agree has not been matched, but overall the game was one of the most non polished poorly implemented games I have ever played.
Yep, the glasses are plenty rosey on this site, particularly for this game. And there were many good things about it in its first few years. Standing on the balcony of my house when the sun set, and Luke's theme starts playing out of nowhere; probably one of my favorite MMO moments of all time.
But yeah...
the constant surprise popups,
the even more constant rubber banding,
the lack of legitimate jumping,
enemies being able to shoot you through walls and you not being able to shoot back
being barely able to take out a couple same skill level stormtroopers, unless you're doc buffed, in which case you can decimate adult Rancor with your bare hands...
this game practically invented "flavor of the month"
Originally posted by doodphace The rose colored SWG glasses in this article are through the roof. "As time went on though and the game grew in popularity, the developers’ vision of the game changed as well"...no...the NGE came about because the game was losing popularity, not the opposite. it was also the most buggy MMO I have ever played, and that was years after its launch. From riding my speeder and getting stuck in someone's house due to insane popup (at full settings mind you), to having to wait 5-6 days for a GM to remove me from the house (you needed 'permission form the owner" to open the front door), to spending months of playtime+luck becoming one of the few pre NGE Jedi, and having my light saber do 1-1 damage and having SOE tell me that it was a "known issue". i broke a 100$ mouse out of a fit of rage because of SWG. Its "customization" at launch I agree has not been matched, but overall the game was one of the most non polished poorly implemented games I have ever played.
I don't think anyone is saying the game was perfect. While it did have some negatives, its positives far outweighed those negatives. There is a reason why so many gamers think back on it so fondly. SWG was a great sandbox game. It had an immersion factor that few, if any, MMORPGs have been able to duplicate. Most of all it was unique, which is a huge plus in the sea of clones that we see in the MMORPG genre today.
I agree with both SWG and COH as numbers 1 and 2, by a good margin.
Warhammer was a really sad one for me. Just because I actually really liked the graphics the look and feel of combat it was all top notch. But the zone design and major focus on PVP didn't get me past the free trial.
I understand that some games are designed for pvp players though which is fine. Wasn't for me unfortunately.
Tabula Rasa was a decent game ...it also was live for more than 4 mos. Over a year actually ...and ncsoft was kind enough to give those players who had a sub for the whole time it was live first come Beta access to the NA version of Aion. :P CoX was my first foray into MMOs and I loved it all the way thru to the end. I was sorry to see it get shut down. Never played the others so no comment on them.
Originally posted by EvilBeavers I still have days where I wish I could log on to CoX. This game will be missed for years to come.
QFT
Nothing else has come close to character customization and story. These days games want to rush you to max level. CoX was successful BECAUSE it didn't base itself on an IP not despite it. It was a world influenced by the players and grew with the players. It didn't have to shoehorn in things that happened in the IP like DC Universe.
Another poster said >>>> By the mid-point of 2005 there were less 200,000 subs.>>> Which is true, but keep in mind that pre-WoW a western style MMO with 300.000 subscribers was considered a big success. And anything with more than 50000 subscribers was paying for the IP and server maintenance. With SWG being a sandbox game, the end game content was created by players ... like in EVE Online. Even if the SWG dev team had not added any more new content, SWG would most likely have survived another 8 years with player input alone (cantina crawls, Space PvP etc.). RIP SWG .... been there when they switched on the lights, been there when they switched them off again.
I have my hopes up, that Star Citizen will be a worthy successor to SWG.
Tabula Rasa was a mess and overhyped. IMHO.
Warhammer had soooo much potential and an incredibly rich IP behind it. The MMO could have been so much more than what it was. It had serious balancing issues .... which maybe have been solved later in the game (i did not stay long enough to see that happen).
Originally posted by EvilBeavers I still have days where I wish I could log on to CoX. This game will be missed for years to come.
QFT
Nothing else has come close to character customization and story. These days games want to rush you to max level. CoX was successful BECAUSE it didn't base itself on an IP not despite it. It was a world influenced by the players and grew with the players. It didn't have to shoehorn in things that happened in the IP like DC Universe.
I LOVED CoX's power enhancement system. While was disappointed that you couldn't create your own powers like you could in games like Freedom Force, the power enhancement system did alot to fill in that gap.
Comments
you didn't actually play WAR, did ya?
and for the record, the state SWG was in when they shut it down was just a pain compared to it's former glory.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
WAR is the least "WoW clone" AAA release since WoW. AoC was actually the start of the "WoW clone craze".
It's PvE was very obviously a WoW rip off, and no one at Mythic actually wanted it in there in that way (it was forced in by EA), but most of the game was its own design.
The first true WoW clone was LotRO, which had nothing of its own to bring to the table. If you played the alpha of Middle Earth Online, and saw what it became... yeah, WoW clone.
EA and Mythic's arrogance killed WAR. They could have taken the game to a freemium model and it would still be alive and making enough money to actually fix the issues it had.
I really liked the PvE side of that game. It was a darker version of WoW's PvE and i loved it for that. But the game wasnt worth a sub to me so i never played beyond their unlimited (limited) trial. Sure it was a pvp focused game but the PvE was what it grabbed me.
Too bad a lot of games i really like get managed and killed by the wrong companies.
Personally I would not see FTP as a savior of "dying" mmos.
Provide good content and you will survive. Fix broken "key" mechanics and you will survive. Look at World of Warcraft for example. A lot of us played that game. Many of us evolved as gamer and moved on. Some of us stayed and are still enjoying it. That means they get a lot of new players every year. They must be doing something good with updating their content.
Even FTP (or BTP) games need to come up with something that will pay their bills. Personally I rather pay a subscription, so everyone ingame has the same chance to get an item or do certain content. With a cash-shop I always have the feeling not the entire dev team is used to provide good content for all the players.
I miss Spellborn and Vanguard.
I
Earth & Beyond =(
Yes, I have happy memories of that game as well.
WoW's sub numbers have been going down every year as a whole. The only reason WoW is still surviving as a sub is because it always had soooo many.
I don't think it's impossible for a new MMO to survive on subs long term. But it's damn near impossible. The market is just way to saturated now. When WoW came out there was only a handful of western MMOs. When EQ1 came out there was like 4?!
World of Darkness... it died as a fetus but it is still a death!
RIP
Immortals [EU] - Darkfall Clan: http://immortals-online.eu/
Read my "funny" DF1 blog: http://casualdarkfall.blogspot.com
Thanks for saving me the trouble but will post for clarifying for them the run time for the game (the best MMO to date imho). He seems to have forgotten the YEAR and (almost) 4 months part, heheh. Still to short and would still be to short if it had stayed up and closed down yesterday.
Also, fyi, typo on first Garriot in the article and on a was (have wa).
...other than Monster Play, playable instruments with support for writing and collecting music sheets, character moods, one of the most extensive animation sets ever created for an MMO, and the traits and deeds system. You may not like these features and they may not be important to you, personally, but to deny they are there would be silly.
As to ste2000's statement, I am quite sure that was made tongue in cheek to troll those unfamiliar with the Warhammer/Warcraft IPs.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yep, the glasses are plenty rosey on this site, particularly for this game. And there were many good things about it in its first few years. Standing on the balcony of my house when the sun set, and Luke's theme starts playing out of nowhere; probably one of my favorite MMO moments of all time.
But yeah...
the constant surprise popups,
the even more constant rubber banding,
the lack of legitimate jumping,
enemies being able to shoot you through walls and you not being able to shoot back
being barely able to take out a couple same skill level stormtroopers, unless you're doc buffed, in which case you can decimate adult Rancor with your bare hands...
this game practically invented "flavor of the month"
I guess I'm trying to say It had a few issues...
I don't think anyone is saying the game was perfect. While it did have some negatives, its positives far outweighed those negatives. There is a reason why so many gamers think back on it so fondly. SWG was a great sandbox game. It had an immersion factor that few, if any, MMORPGs have been able to duplicate. Most of all it was unique, which is a huge plus in the sea of clones that we see in the MMORPG genre today.
I agree with both SWG and COH as numbers 1 and 2, by a good margin.
I understand that some games are designed for pvp players though which is fine. Wasn't for me unfortunately.
There's nothing more gratifying than playing an MMO for free.
QFT
Nothing else has come close to character customization and story. These days games want to rush you to max level. CoX was successful BECAUSE it didn't base itself on an IP not despite it. It was a world influenced by the players and grew with the players. It didn't have to shoehorn in things that happened in the IP like DC Universe.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I fully agree with SWG on this list.
Another poster said >>>> By the mid-point of 2005 there were less 200,000 subs.>>> Which is true, but keep in mind that pre-WoW a western style MMO with 300.000 subscribers was considered a big success. And anything with more than 50000 subscribers was paying for the IP and server maintenance. With SWG being a sandbox game, the end game content was created by players ... like in EVE Online. Even if the SWG dev team had not added any more new content, SWG would most likely have survived another 8 years with player input alone (cantina crawls, Space PvP etc.). RIP SWG .... been there when they switched on the lights, been there when they switched them off again.
I have my hopes up, that Star Citizen will be a worthy successor to SWG.
Tabula Rasa was a mess and overhyped. IMHO.
Warhammer had soooo much potential and an incredibly rich IP behind it. The MMO could have been so much more than what it was. It had serious balancing issues .... which maybe have been solved later in the game (i did not stay long enough to see that happen).
Have fun
Erillion
I LOVED CoX's power enhancement system. While was disappointed that you couldn't create your own powers like you could in games like Freedom Force, the power enhancement system did alot to fill in that gap.
What I wouldn't give for a CoX 2!!!