If the game is a complete sandbox, then the learning curve is too high, and there is too much grind.
If there is a linear quest option, then the game is too much of a themepark, and there is not enough freedom.
People seem unable to comprehend something that falls in the middle. In ArcheAge you don't need to quest to progress, but it is easier if you do. ArcheAge is one of the VERY FEW MMO's where you can COMPLETELY progress your character to max level without doing any quests, without grinding anything, and without even killing a monster.
Heck, it may even be quicker to level up through harvesting and crafting.
ArcheAge is a GREAT combination of sandbox and themepark. There is enough freedom and sand for anyone willing to look for it. and there is enough themepark for everyone else. The only people who are unhappy are those who log in, see a gold exclamation point above an NPC, and instantly go "Lol themepark quest grind game sucks".
Grow up.
I happen to like themepark questing games. AA just doesn't do it very well. Not sure criticizing people and telling them to "grow up" because we don't share your enthusiasm for this game is an appropriate response, particularly from someone chiding others for not being mature enough to "get" the game.
Of course AA doesn't do it very well. Its not a questing-focused game. Its a sandbox. You cant expect greatness for something that is not core to the game.
If the game is a complete sandbox, then the learning curve is too high, and there is too much grind.
If there is a linear quest option, then the game is too much of a themepark, and there is not enough freedom.
People seem unable to comprehend something that falls in the middle. In ArcheAge you don't need to quest to progress, but it is easier if you do. ArcheAge is one of the VERY FEW MMO's where you can COMPLETELY progress your character to max level without doing any quests, without grinding anything, and without even killing a monster.
Heck, it may even be quicker to level up through harvesting and crafting.
ArcheAge is a GREAT combination of sandbox and themepark. There is enough freedom and sand for anyone willing to look for it. and there is enough themepark for everyone else. The only people who are unhappy are those who log in, see a gold exclamation point above an NPC, and instantly go "Lol themepark quest grind game sucks".
Grow up.
I happen to like themepark questing games. AA just doesn't do it very well. Not sure criticizing people and telling them to "grow up" because we don't share your enthusiasm for this game is an appropriate response, particularly from someone chiding others for not being mature enough to "get" the game.
Of course AA doesn't do it very well. Its not a questing-focused game. Its a sandbox. You cant expect greatness for something that is not core to the game.
It's NOT a sandbox. I know we're getting into that grey area again about what constitutes a sandbox, but can we at least agree that a game that has this much linear questing probably at least qualifies as something OTHER than a full-fledged sandbox? Didn't XL games themselves say it was a hybrid? Then why do fans of this game continually refer to it as a sandbox when you spend the first half of the game questing?
But you're right about it not being a quest-focused game. Which is why it's even more odd that they make you learn the game mechanics by running from town to town doing quests, doesn't it?
As I said, poor game design. And btw, I acknowledged in a post further up that the game has a lot of great features. My issue is you have to wait too long to get to them. Most sandboxes I know let you dive right in.
I love this argument more and more every time I hear it. It gives me great lulz.
So, let me get this straight...
The weakest part of the game is the questing. That's been the universal opinion of everyone who has played it. Even the people who liked the game.
So, as a developer, you decide to make the weakest part of your game mandatory for the first 30 levels in order to learn the core gameplay features?
Worst game design ever. That would be like Turbine saying, "You know, our PvP really sucks, but we're going to force LOTRO players to do it for the first 30 levels in order to learn about the combat needed for PvE while questing."
Does that not sound like horrible game design?
That's why this game will forever be a niche title...at best. Because there aren't enough people wiling to deal with 30 levels of crap in order to get to the "good stuff." Hell, I hear players complain about boring tutorial islands and zones as being major turnoffs in games. You know, the ones that last 5-6 levels or so.
30? Lol.
You still are not straight. This is not a questing game. I dont know why people have a hard time understanding this. The questing is there as a tutorial. If you don't want to do the tutorial then don't do it and continue on to what you like to do. Where does it say or where have you heard you have to do the questing?
You didn't show how you were believeable in game design to determine what is the worst.
The game always was a niche title. When and where did you hear it was a game for the masses? Half of you gamers (here) don't have long attention spans and come across like you want instant gratification. You play a game for 30 minutes then rant how it sucks. Move on to the next game and do the same. Whats the point? Your not real gamers.
This game is a slower, more complex game to get into and enjoy. If you want to achieve then you will have to work for it ... over time. If that is not your playstyle then fine... move on. This game is not for you. You cant stand tab target. Dont play this game. You hate the questing. Dont play this game. No one will miss you.
But at least have the courtesy to allow those who DO like these mechanics and game to enjoy it. To be clear, I am not telling you to not have an opinion (we all have one). I'm saying be open minded to things outside of what you like.
I played for a week, not 30 minutes. But thank you for telling me that I'm not a real gamer, anyway. I find it odd that you'd ask me to be courteous of others who like this game while resorting to petty attacks.
I explained why I didn't like the game. Please point out one quote in any of my posts on this thread that states people shouldn't be allowed to enjoy this game if they like it.
Knee-jerk reaction is a perfect term for your post, pal.
If the game is a complete sandbox, then the learning curve is too high, and there is too much grind.
If there is a linear quest option, then the game is too much of a themepark, and there is not enough freedom.
People seem unable to comprehend something that falls in the middle. In ArcheAge you don't need to quest to progress, but it is easier if you do. ArcheAge is one of the VERY FEW MMO's where you can COMPLETELY progress your character to max level without doing any quests, without grinding anything, and without even killing a monster.
Heck, it may even be quicker to level up through harvesting and crafting.
ArcheAge is a GREAT combination of sandbox and themepark. There is enough freedom and sand for anyone willing to look for it. and there is enough themepark for everyone else. The only people who are unhappy are those who log in, see a gold exclamation point above an NPC, and instantly go "Lol themepark quest grind game sucks".
Grow up.
I happen to like themepark questing games. AA just doesn't do it very well. Not sure criticizing people and telling them to "grow up" because we don't share your enthusiasm for this game is an appropriate response, particularly from someone chiding others for not being mature enough to "get" the game.
AA isn't a themepark questing game. It is as if you are playing a racing game, and criticizing it for having poor quarterback mechanics. And if that isn't warranting a "grow up", I don't know what is.
Everyone assumes that every game in the world is tailored specifically for their tastes, and rather than admitting, "Hmm, this game isn't my style", they go on to make claims about the overall merit of the game.
Here is my problem with AA. (This is coming from someone who played UO back in 1998 and SWG on day 1) The game feels like its on rails. You get on this train and you really have little choices because there are not other alternatives to leveling. I guess I could deal with it if I could create a crafter like I did in UO or SWG but I cannot I have to follow the quest to level and crafting really does not open up until level 30. Not to mention I just cannot get into the story line for a dam second. So as a player why would I stay that long? Now if it started opening up around level 10 or 15 not a problem but the game is on rails until level 30.
I would love to be able to select what city or planet or where ever I want to start. I dont want to be forced down a preset path. Now you can have that in your game for players but dont force it. Allow several different paths. Thats what a Sandbox is about.
Don't make it sound like questing is the only thing to do until 30, it isn't. You can farm the mats to build you cutter, get your donkey, do trade pack runs and get of taste of navel pvp, if that's what you want to do. You can build your house, make your farm, raise your livestock, grow you plants. Hunt for treasure chest at the bottom of the ocean, raid an open world boss, the game doesn't intend for you to just quest your levels to 30, there are plenty of options.
I didn't mind doing the quests up to level 30. I guess multiple bong hits and a good movie playing can distract me from the tedium of the quests in this game. I somewhat knew what the latter part of the game was going to be like, i bought the founder's pack and started playing alpha early on. All these factors equate to a better experience leveling. So I can totally understand why people playing the beta, who are essentially f2p status, have a problem with the questing. They can't get land, they level slower, LP is kinda BS, etc, etc. This game is niche and will attract players who want to play Archeage. The average player that tries out any beta they can just to play it won't enjoy this game. Being f2p for this game is basically a taste of what the game world is, subscribing is the only way to really enjoy what this game has to offer.
Just realize the real game doesnt start till later on at about level 30
dont want to go through getting there? fine,dont.Just realize then,that you arent experiencing the real game and leave it at that.
Heard this hundreds to thousands of times across many different MMOs. It's over done. A game should be able to capture a player's attention and be enjoyable from the start or shortly after a very short tutorial zone. Wildstar's -for example-dragged on way too long and is too stale, but the zones after the tutorial (level .....6ish through 15ish) are spectacular and very enjoyable.
But to have 30+ levels of snaking through guided roads and paths doing very linear quests on a very archaic combat + questing system. That should not be tolerable at all. This "brand new game" seems like something pulls straight out of the early part of the 00's.
Why does the game feel as though no lessons have been learned from the previous decade of games that have come, gone, adapted and stayed?
I don't blame Trion, they're not the designer of this game. Not at all. I blame XLGames. But then it could be that their market over where teh game originates from is sedated by this type of generic gameplay. However I can blame Trion for partnering up with a company to bring such inferior content over to an area that is well above advanced beyond that type of play. And worse yet is that they lock away much of the content DURING A SUPPOSED BETA behind a paywall just to gain money in what looks like a very possible cash grab through Founders programs.
P.S. Everything in my post is opinion, speculation, and hyperbole only. Take it with a grain of salt, or not at all. It's your choice. But don't act like I'm pressing my opinion on everyone else, I'm not. These are my views on ArcheAge based on limited Beta testing and research on the subject.
I'm apt to agree Siph. Judging from what I am reading here and over on their forums, I don't believe this game is going to do well. I actually am starting to believe it may very well do worse than Wildstar.
I'd say the combat system is actually one of the game's stronger points. Although people who hate anything tab target won't like it but the combos combined with the way you can put any set of class abilities you can think of into a custom-class makes it cool for me.
Some of the graphics and vistas in this game are also breathtaking. Poorly executed questing is the only real negative. If they just made it a sandbox from the beginning it would be such a great MMO but it is like they don't want to give up the themepark market so the game feels like it has an identity crisis. Like a great horror movie with a long and not very well done romantic comedy subplot at the beginning. Why?
the same problem as a lot of mmos that didnt get it right.
If the real game starts at the end, or even half way, why waste people´s time with the fake part of the game? If your game cant hold me long enough to see the ¨real¨ game you talk about, you are doing it wrong. How can your game hold me long enough? by making the ¨real game¨ from the beginning. Fun.
I've had my say about the labor system on other threads. The other problem most people point out is the questing system. Is it great..hell no. Is it that much different from the questing mechanics of just about every MMO out there..no. Did it promise to be different questing than any other MMO in existence? Not that I recall.
Do you have to like it cause I say so? Hell no.
I can foresee where the only quest many of my alts may do are the crafting quests that start you out which basically lead you into running trade routes...and maybe the mount quest. Other than that. You don't need to follow the quests at all. I roam around doing quests all over the place. At many points I was told to go see someone ..only to find I'd already finished the quests he/she was going to ask of me.
I mostly just roam about anyway...hasn't seemed to cause any problems.
See? We agree on something. And yet...dem first 30 levels.
Walk around, harvest.
Explore.
Refine harvested materials.
Craft stuff.
Do trade runs.
Between 16-25 I didn't kill a single monster. Stop trying to fault AA for being something it isn't, and then not doing a good job at it.
The way labor points work, I'm pretty sure you'd have to be a patron (i.e., have preordered or post-release, be a subscriber) in order to build up LP fast enough to do that. Or, perhaps, get around the AFK mechanisms so you can build up LP without being really there...
The only crafting I've done is the one where they introduce you to it by quest. It takes 100 LP to craft one object... so that's an hour and 40 minutes of "other play", not counting the fact that they charge you to "open" the looted money sacks you get, and to "open" the armor sets you get...
So, for those of use who are effectively beta-testing as F2P players, I think questing IS about the only way to level.
When you look over the posts the main summary for how an mmo should be is:
as many question options as possible
too many present and too little action involved
too much to do that bores you
not enough content focused on what you care about
not enough action
not enough crafting options
cant level fast enough to do endgame content
too little endgame
That's really the first 4 pages. I don't plan on playing AA but the fact remains that no one is going to release a game nowadays that captivates everyone; we all have our own preferences and mmo's aren't this shiny new toy we're experiencing the first time. Fact is everyone is blowing through content, info and bosses in the game at a rate faster than ever. You don't have to figure out and learn stuff as much anymore; you can watch a video and mimic what "others" have done.
As a player, the one thing we ignore is that whatever takes 5 years to develop someone there playing can probably crush in under a half year without a sweat. When most of us played our first mmo we were probably taken back and ignored tons. It's 2014 now and much has changed. In some bizzarro world the extreme questing might be beneficial but a bane as well.
Comments
Of course AA doesn't do it very well. Its not a questing-focused game. Its a sandbox. You cant expect greatness for something that is not core to the game.
It's NOT a sandbox. I know we're getting into that grey area again about what constitutes a sandbox, but can we at least agree that a game that has this much linear questing probably at least qualifies as something OTHER than a full-fledged sandbox? Didn't XL games themselves say it was a hybrid? Then why do fans of this game continually refer to it as a sandbox when you spend the first half of the game questing?
But you're right about it not being a quest-focused game. Which is why it's even more odd that they make you learn the game mechanics by running from town to town doing quests, doesn't it?
As I said, poor game design. And btw, I acknowledged in a post further up that the game has a lot of great features. My issue is you have to wait too long to get to them. Most sandboxes I know let you dive right in.
I played for a week, not 30 minutes. But thank you for telling me that I'm not a real gamer, anyway. I find it odd that you'd ask me to be courteous of others who like this game while resorting to petty attacks.
I explained why I didn't like the game. Please point out one quote in any of my posts on this thread that states people shouldn't be allowed to enjoy this game if they like it.
Knee-jerk reaction is a perfect term for your post, pal.
AA isn't a themepark questing game. It is as if you are playing a racing game, and criticizing it for having poor quarterback mechanics. And if that isn't warranting a "grow up", I don't know what is.
Everyone assumes that every game in the world is tailored specifically for their tastes, and rather than admitting, "Hmm, this game isn't my style", they go on to make claims about the overall merit of the game.
Grow up.
(Uzik ibnYaraq in game. Always willing to help.)
http://www.youtube.com/user/UzikAlJhamin
See? We agree on something. And yet...dem first 30 levels.
Here is my problem with AA. (This is coming from someone who played UO back in 1998 and SWG on day 1) The game feels like its on rails. You get on this train and you really have little choices because there are not other alternatives to leveling. I guess I could deal with it if I could create a crafter like I did in UO or SWG but I cannot I have to follow the quest to level and crafting really does not open up until level 30. Not to mention I just cannot get into the story line for a dam second. So as a player why would I stay that long? Now if it started opening up around level 10 or 15 not a problem but the game is on rails until level 30.
I would love to be able to select what city or planet or where ever I want to start. I dont want to be forced down a preset path. Now you can have that in your game for players but dont force it. Allow several different paths. Thats what a Sandbox is about.
Walk around, harvest.
Explore.
Refine harvested materials.
Craft stuff.
Do trade runs.
Between 16-25 I didn't kill a single monster. Stop trying to fault AA for being something it isn't, and then not doing a good job at it.
[mod edit - don't flame]
(Uzik ibnYaraq in game. Always willing to help.)
http://www.youtube.com/user/UzikAlJhamin
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Heard this hundreds to thousands of times across many different MMOs. It's over done. A game should be able to capture a player's attention and be enjoyable from the start or shortly after a very short tutorial zone. Wildstar's -for example-dragged on way too long and is too stale, but the zones after the tutorial (level .....6ish through 15ish) are spectacular and very enjoyable.
But to have 30+ levels of snaking through guided roads and paths doing very linear quests on a very archaic combat + questing system. That should not be tolerable at all. This "brand new game" seems like something pulls straight out of the early part of the 00's.
Why does the game feel as though no lessons have been learned from the previous decade of games that have come, gone, adapted and stayed?
I don't blame Trion, they're not the designer of this game. Not at all. I blame XLGames. But then it could be that their market over where teh game originates from is sedated by this type of generic gameplay. However I can blame Trion for partnering up with a company to bring such inferior content over to an area that is well above advanced beyond that type of play. And worse yet is that they lock away much of the content DURING A SUPPOSED BETA behind a paywall just to gain money in what looks like a very possible cash grab through Founders programs.
P.S. Everything in my post is opinion, speculation, and hyperbole only. Take it with a grain of salt, or not at all. It's your choice. But don't act like I'm pressing my opinion on everyone else, I'm not. These are my views on ArcheAge based on limited Beta testing and research on the subject.
I'd say the combat system is actually one of the game's stronger points. Although people who hate anything tab target won't like it but the combos combined with the way you can put any set of class abilities you can think of into a custom-class makes it cool for me.
Some of the graphics and vistas in this game are also breathtaking. Poorly executed questing is the only real negative. If they just made it a sandbox from the beginning it would be such a great MMO but it is like they don't want to give up the themepark market so the game feels like it has an identity crisis. Like a great horror movie with a long and not very well done romantic comedy subplot at the beginning. Why?
I dont know about these haters but ive been enjoying the game since i got to lvl 10.
sure there are a lot more and fun content when you reach lvl 30, but that doesnt mean lvls 29 and below isnt fun and lacking at
all. sure questing can be quite linear but no one is asking you to do them all. as soon as you hit lvl 10-15,you should try to start
crafting things you like.
the same problem as a lot of mmos that didnt get it right.
If the real game starts at the end, or even half way, why waste people´s time with the fake part of the game? If your game cant hold me long enough to see the ¨real¨ game you talk about, you are doing it wrong. How can your game hold me long enough? by making the ¨real game¨ from the beginning. Fun.
I fully understand.Which is why I said dont bother if you dont want to.
I've had my say about the labor system on other threads. The other problem most people point out is the questing system. Is it great..hell no. Is it that much different from the questing mechanics of just about every MMO out there..no. Did it promise to be different questing than any other MMO in existence? Not that I recall.
Do you have to like it cause I say so? Hell no.
I can foresee where the only quest many of my alts may do are the crafting quests that start you out which basically lead you into running trade routes...and maybe the mount quest. Other than that. You don't need to follow the quests at all. I roam around doing quests all over the place. At many points I was told to go see someone ..only to find I'd already finished the quests he/she was going to ask of me.
I mostly just roam about anyway...hasn't seemed to cause any problems.
not too sure whats up with the flaming retards but tnx for the heads up. its actually good to know this stuff.
The way labor points work, I'm pretty sure you'd have to be a patron (i.e., have preordered or post-release, be a subscriber) in order to build up LP fast enough to do that. Or, perhaps, get around the AFK mechanisms so you can build up LP without being really there...
The only crafting I've done is the one where they introduce you to it by quest. It takes 100 LP to craft one object... so that's an hour and 40 minutes of "other play", not counting the fact that they charge you to "open" the looted money sacks you get, and to "open" the armor sets you get...
So, for those of use who are effectively beta-testing as F2P players, I think questing IS about the only way to level.
Do you people really want same-faction PvP at level 1?
/lol
When you look over the posts the main summary for how an mmo should be is:
The same people will complain about getting camped after the character screen creation.